View Full Version : I would be richer if I never danced
shakti
10-15-2007, 03:07 PM
What's always left out of these calculations is the very particular blend of tolerance and stamina necessary to strip long term. Work ethics and financial discipline? Check. Just being super hot and chit chatting with interesting people? That sounds like a great job, where can I find it?
In most clubs making over $500 a night consistently these days requires at least some VIP. Yes, there are those customers that shower you with money to look beautiful and share a cocktail, but we all know they're not the majority. All the touching, grinding, ass groping, neck kissing, etc. can really wear a person down night after night, year after year. That's not about laziness. It's another factor in why there's a very small percentage of Superstrippers. They need to have a very thick skin, or enjoy the intimacy, or be driven by the money enough to overide those things that are squirrely about the job. Otherwise, the cycles of burnout and needing to take time out to regroup will heavily affect the calculations.
britneyireland
10-15-2007, 05:15 PM
Mia...yep, she started dancing when she was 13!
Agreed with the high end sales...I'm actually being courted by a hedge fund to peddle their investment products to Ultra High Net Worth individuals. And believe it or not, "in the beginning" stripping STILL has greater cash flow. But it all gets back to my original point...I would have never learned my sales skills or met with this hedge fund owner if I hadn't been a stripper. (And if you're wondering, yes I'm taking the job and yes I'm going to continue dancing since its not full time)
I'm going to do some more number crunching (if you didn't figure it out by now, I'm a total math geek! I LOVE statistics!) Mia, how do you define as "top professional-class workers?" Does a teacher qualify? It requires a lot of schooling, it's professional, but it certainly isn't a high wage. Ditto for engineers, public healthcare professionals (not all doctors make 100K after 20 years in the field) public counsel (do you know how much a public defender makes? I don't, but I'll look it up)
I'm also going to look at Forbes top 500 richest people. I wonder how many of them are doctors, lawyers, engineers. I have a hunch that most of them are business owners, which doesn't require a degree.
I FIRMLY believe that stripper income is stable. I will say that again STRIPPER INCOME IS STABLE. If and only IF the entertainer runs her business like any CEO would run a company. In my mind "if" means she works 20-30 hours a week, develops and maintains stable clients to see her through the slow times, and does her job clean sober and focused. Just look at the SuperStrippers here on Stripperweb (Me, Melanie, Bridgette, Emily, Chrissy, Susan Wayward to name a few)
Strip clubs are NOT going out of business. Rather, hedge funds, private equity firms, and even Fidelity mutal funds are buying up shares in RICK and PP. Think about that...Wall Street is investing in strip clubs. Does that scream anything to you???? http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=RICK
I've been dancing for 8 years. Everyone talks about how much better it was in the late 90s. In the late 90s everyone was talking about how much better it was in the 80s. Negative thinking yields negative results. I've worked in Phoenix for 5 years. 2004-2005 were very busy due to the out of town real estate investors and flippers. However, the current real estate crunch has taken a major cut out of the volume of customers in the door. All the girls are bitching how "it sux" yet I have posted record sales EVERY month this year. I have been making MORE money now at my $10 dance club than I did when I worked in Las Vegas during the dot.com bubble. How? Millionaire Mindset by T Harv Ecker. Get it. It's a zillion times better than The Secret.
britneyireland
10-15-2007, 05:35 PM
Shakti brought up a good point: "All the touching, grinding, ass groping, neck kissing, etc. can really wear a person down night after night, year after year."
I don't let anyone touch me in any way that I don't want them to. SuperStrippers proactively set their own personal boundries and don't allow negative experiences to destroy their self esteem. This is straight Steven Covey's 7 Habits of Highly Effective People: Habit 1 Be Proactive.
Has anyone ever heard of Viktor Frankel? He was a psychiatrist and a Jew during the Holocaust. He was imprisoned in the death camps of Nazi Germany, where he experienced things that were so repugnant to our sense of decency that we shudder to repeat them. His parents, brother and his wife were sent to the gas ovens. Frankl himself suffered torture and innumberable indignities, and never knew when his number would be called for the gas oven.
One day, naked and alone in a small room, he began to become waware of what he later called the "last of the human freedoms,"- the freedom that the Nazis could take away. They could control his environment, they could mutilate his body, but they could not take his self esteem. Frankl realized that he could decide witin himself HOW all of this was going to affect him. He had the power to DECIDE what his response to the simulus was. Thus the saying, "between stimulus and response, man has the freedom to choose"
Frankl lived through the death camps and went on to teach at the university level. Despite the torture he suffered, he regarded that period of his life to be "enlightening"
How does this relate to strippers?
Well, many strippers allow contact that they don't want in order to make money (stimulus) Their response after all of that is that they feel bad about themselves. Or they drink so much that they blame it on "being drunk" Maybe they do this a few nights in a row and then they just can't bring themselves to go into work because they're just so "disgusted with men." Their self esteem takes a toll...you know how the rest goes.
I really want to try and stop this vicious cycle and empower woment to become independent self confident SuperStrippers! It DOESN'T have to be this way!
Optimist
10-15-2007, 05:44 PM
Realistically if a dancer can't grab life by the balls and maximize her earnings at a cashflow job that doesn't issue 1099's, what are the chances that she is going to be the highest paid attorney, or doctor, or fund manager?
You're joking, right? The skills and passion necessary to be the highest paid dancer are waaaaaaay different than those required to be the highest paid attorney. Simply not wanting to be pawed on is enough to take you out of the running. Most people can't keep that "negative experience from destroying their self-esteem". Not so for attorneys etc.
Optimist
10-15-2007, 06:03 PM
Mia...yep, she started dancing when she was 13!
First, you don't know what this woman has averaged in terms of income. Second it sounds asinine to have been stripping since age 13 to 42. She defies your premise that 10-15 years of stripping will make you independently rich.
But it all gets back to my original point...I would have never learned my sales skills or met with this hedge fund owner if I hadn't been a stripper. (And if you're wondering, yes I'm taking the job and yes I'm going to continue dancing since its not full time)
You could have learned sales skills in plenty of other positions like most sales people have done. So can every other woman.
I'm also going to look at Forbes top 500 richest people. I wonder how many of them are doctors, lawyers, engineers. I have a hunch that most of them are business owners, which doesn't require a degree.
WHAT?! There are millions of businesses and many do require a degree to run.
I FIRMLY believe that stripper income is stable. I will say that again STRIPPER INCOME IS STABLE. If and only IF the entertainer runs her business like any CEO would run a company. In my mind "if" means she works 20-30 hours a week, develops and maintains stable clients to see her through the slow times, and does her job clean sober and focused. Just look at the SuperStrippers here on Stripperweb (Me, Melanie, Bridgette, Emily, Chrissy, Susan Wayward to name a few)
Those same women have stated that money is very different now than in the past and most have had to move around to try to keep earning at the same level. Unless you're a mindreader it takes trial and error to find new income in new towns and new clubs. All of that adds up to instability. Also how many 19-34 year olds with no advanced education can run their dance career like a business? They're rare as hen's teeth.
Strip clubs are NOT going out of business. Rather, hedge funds, private equity firms, and even Fidelity mutal funds are buying up shares in RICK and PP. Think about that...Wall Street is investing in strip clubs. Does that scream anything to you???? http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=RICK
2 club chains is hardly making up for the plethora of dead and dying clubs littered about the country. Sad but true.
I've been dancing for 8 years. Everyone talks about how much better it was in the late 90s. In the late 90s everyone was talking about how much better it was in the 80s. Negative thinking yields negative results. I've worked in Phoenix for 5 years. 2004-2005 were very busy due to the out of town real estate investors and flippers. However, the current real estate crunch has taken a major cut out of the volume of customers in the door. All the girls are bitching how "it sux" yet I have posted record sales EVERY month this year. I have been making MORE money now at my $10 dance club than I did when I worked in Las Vegas during the dot.com bubble. How? Millionaire Mindset by T Harv Ecker. Get it. It's a zillion times better than The Secret.
That's great.......for you! I'd be more impressed if you reported that your regions's dancers were making record money. That's something for the masses to bank on and plan on. I say it's waaaay too shaky out there to bank on the next ten years money. And if inflation's going to take a bite out of everyone's check then we will surely feel it the most. Our tips are wholly dependent on other people discretionary income--not a contract. You shouldn't feel down because you've obviously got your mojo going. However, to recommend locking into this job for the next ten years over preparing for a high paying job requiring a degree is irresponsible at best for the rest of us.
britneyireland
10-15-2007, 07:54 PM
Optimist....you're such a pessimist! ;)
It's fascinating why you have such vehement ferver to dispute everything I say, but you use your opinion not raw statistics to back up your position. I am in the process of researching my statistics, will you please research yours?
Specifically, what other sales jobs offer immediate cash flow to the tune of 100K/year with no start up fees other than a city license and a pair of stilettos?
What degree do you need to start a business? Steve Jobs, Michael Dell, Bill Gates all dropped out of college. They hire CEOs with business degrees, but who do you think makes more....the employee or the owner?
The SuperStrippers I mentioned all have college degrees and have made the same choice to dance over get a straight job. Doesn't that tell you something about the job market? Yes, dancing is different now....but that doesn't mean that it's worse. I know Bridgette had her best summer EVER this year! And so did I! How do you KNOW that they aren't making more money now that they were "back in the day" You don't.
Those are the only two publicly traded strip clubs. The rest are privately owned. I know Steve Cooper who owns Christies isn't hurting right now. Strip clubs are mildly recession proof. The ghetto and blue collar clubs will suffer during hard times, but wealthy men will ALWAYS have discretionary income to spend on on pretty girls and champagne.
And for my regions dancers banking....hahah...Bridgette and I realized how much we shot ourselves in the foot when we got on here and raved about how GREAT Phx was. We were flooded with traveling dancers! Boy did we learn our lesson!
I never suggested to NOT go to college. I never suggested to NOT prepare for another job. My purpose is to help dancers realize how AWESOME our job is and how if used properly it can be a SPRINGBOARD for bigger and better things!
britneyireland
10-15-2007, 08:10 PM
Also Related Topic My blogpost for the day:
What Kind of Stripper are You?
The Subsistence Stripper
In most clubs, dancers set their own schedules. In Phoenix and Las Vegas where I dance, I just have to show up whenever I feel like working. If I don't feel good, I don't go in and I don't have to find another stripper to cover my shift. The Subsistence Stripper shows up the day before rent is due or the day after her car breaks down. She only works when she needs money. The Subsistence Stripper could not emotionally handle a job with schedules and responsibilities. If she was forced to get a "normal" job she would fall into the broader category of "people who can't hold down a steady job." If she was not a pretty girl she might be homeless. Subsistence Strippers don't generally pay taxes, and may even collect government benefits. Their tax evasion is unlikely to ever be detected since they don't actually make (or spend) very much on an annual basis.
The most ironic thing about the Subsistence Stripper is that she represents a minority of strippers, but somehow is the poster child of the "Stripper" stereotype.
The Student Stripper
Student strippers fall into two categories: students who strip and strippers who go to school. The superficial difference is which activity a dancer was doing first, but the bigger difference is in her attitude towards stripping. Students who strip have other income sources to fall back on, whether that is parental support or student loans. Some of them just do it for fun - a rebellious lark. Most do it for spending cash or to offset school expenses not covered by loans. Either way, they don't have a real, pressing need for money and a lot of them don't take the job seriously. These are the girls who are most likely to treat the job like a big party and get drunk at work or spend their money on drugs.
Strippers who go to school tend to be more serious about work, since the reason they are going to school is because they've been stripping awhile and want to get out of it. They are women who support themselves and are paying their tuition with the cash they earn stripping. They're usually balancing pretty heavy schedules and want to maximize their time at work.
Students who strip can have all sorts of career aspirations, but I've noticed that a few professions seem to be very popular among strippers who go to school: nursing, cosmetology, massage therapy, and real estate. This makes sense, as these careers require certifications that can be achieved in much less time than a B.A.
Either way, The Student Stripper views stripping as her job for the moment - a means to an end - with the end being some sort of professional career.
The Job Stripper
The vast majority of women who strip fall into this category. For that matter, most workers in any industry in any part of the world fall into this category (that is say, the broader category of Job Workers.) The Job Stripper works 4-5 shifts a week, just like she would at any other job.
Depending on the particular town and club where she works, and her own skills, she is likely to earn anywhere from what your average college graduate working in a professional field would make to what your average doctor or lawyer makes. In other words, the Job Stripper makes enough to comfortably support herself. Like most people, however, she spends virtually every dollar she earns and then some. Like most people, she has anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars in the bank, but never enough to withstand any real financial hardship. On the plus side, a lot of strippers don't even bother with credit cards, so she may not have any credit card debt. On the negative side, she's also unlikely to have bothered with health insurance or even the most basic retirement savings, since Americans are trained to think these things are the responsibility of the employer first, the government second, and the individual last.
A Job Stripper may think that since she makes as much as a doctor does she should live at the same level a doctor does. The flaw in this thinking is that while a doctor can easily practice medicine well into her sixties or later, strippers have a relatively shorter shelf life of about 20 years (age 20-40). Even in a best-case scenario, most women have to retire from dancing by the time they hit their mid-forties at the very latest.
In all honesty, the Job Stripper who faces retirement isn't really much worse off than your average American who is downsized and faces a forced career change at midlife. Most Americans are woefully unprepared for retirement and saddled with massive debt to boot. The biggest disadvantage the retiring Job Stripper faces is that she may never have learned how to deal with petty, demanding bosses, boorish, judgmental coworkers with whom she's expected to cooperate (not compete), get up at 7 AM, AND she's going to have to take a pay cut and downgrade her lifestyle. This is the eventual unglamorous fate that awaits most job strippers.
The Supplemental Stripper
A decent number of women with professional jobs strip one or two nights a week for extra money. Some of them are former Student Strippers. I have encountered women with a variety of day jobs (including multiple women with Masters degrees) who dance for extra money on the side. It's interesting to note that most strippers who do have day jobs have a job they went to school for. You don't meet many strippers who also work at McDonald's because those girls realize very quickly that their day job isn't worth keeping.
Women in professional jobs tend to keep that day job because it's hard to explain to your loved ones that after four years of college and another five years of building your resume you've decided to quit so you can strip full-time, even if it does mean doubling your income. Some keep their day job for the benefits, like health insurance, stock options, 401(k) contribution-matching, etc. Some eventually just quit their day job because it's kind of depressing to work in a stuffy office all week for what you can make in one or two nights of stripping. Many of those who do find themselves moving to the next category:
SuperStripper
This is the category I fall into. We're a small minority, but more numerous than most people would expect. We work as much as or more than Job Strippers. I work 4-5 days a week. Some very ambitious SuperStrippers work 6-7 days a week. SuperStrippers treat stripping like a business, not a job or a party. We declare our income on our taxes and maximize our deductions by incorporating or forming an LLC. We have health insurance, SEP-IRAs, brokerage accounts, rental properties (and accountants.) We know how to maximize our time in the office by working extra hours during the busy season and take recharge our batteries during the slow season. We invest our money wisely and have the power of compound interest working for us.
My goal is to continue dancing until I am Financially Free. This means that I have enough passive income from my investments to cover my living expenses. Becoming a SuperStripper has been a life changing experience for me. When I'm old and bleached blonde, I'll reflect on my stripper experience with fond memories and positive thoughts. Despite the social stigma of being "a stripper" (anyone who knows me knows I love to challenge stereotypes) the best revenge is proving them wrong ;)
I have said for years now, stripping is what you make of it. You can grab this instant cashflow business by the balls and use it as a springboard for better things....or you can be a subsistence stripper. The choice is up to you.
shakti
10-15-2007, 08:29 PM
Well, many strippers allow contact that they don't want in order to make money (stimulus) Their response after all of that is that they feel bad about themselves. Or they drink so much that they blame it on "being drunk" Maybe they do this a few nights in a row and then they just can't bring themselves to go into work because they're just so "disgusted with men." Their self esteem takes a toll...you know how the rest goes.
I really want to try and stop this vicious cycle and empower woment to become independent self confident SuperStrippers! It DOESN'T have to be this way!
I definitely agree with this. Part of the problem is dancers offering more and more and trying to outdo each other to get a sale in the moment, ultimately to the detriment of their well being. Still, I don't believe that there are certain dancers that can just float over their customers and collect their money due to positive thinking alone. Yes, you're in your comfort zone, but it's not one held by everyone, and to suggest that those who don't feel that way haven't got the fire to become succesful professionals is way off base. Sometimes the stereotypes made by strippers about 9-5er's (foolish lemmings) is just as bad as what they receive in return. Being a stripper is not as simple as sticking big boobs on yourself and doing a bunch of math.
I think it's awesome that you're mentoring younger dancers, that's so important. It's great that stripping has worked out so well for you, it has for me too. Hell, I'm a Superstripper. I just don't believe in the black and white version that I see here. Full time stripper=wildly succesful life, any other job=miserable cog. There are so many shades of grey that make up human lives.
BabyGirlKylie
10-15-2007, 09:58 PM
To start, back to the original post, I know how it feels to think you wasted time, or should be working in your chosen field already. The one thing that comes to mind as consolation is never never never under-estimate the value of starting your chosen career debt-free.
Although for some, $30,000 of school debt may not seem like a lot, be aware that no matter your income, it IS. Even if you start with a $65,000 salary, that debt will most likely will not be paid off in a year.
Do consider a realistic view of your take-home pay after taxes and living expenses.
So mathamatics aside (paying on a loan for a year or longer).......think of the freedom associated with not having that large debt. Aside from the obvious of having more money to spend (a house? a car?) or invest (!) .....think of all the life choices you will have.
Planning on earning $65,000 or more a year? Nice goal, but what if it doesn't pan out that way? Say you are offered a job at that decently high salary at a company you aren't thrilled about working for. Perhaps you don't like the boss, your co-workers, the office politics, the hours, the city, etc. etc. etc. You want out. BUT you can't. You need that paycheck.
Or more optimisticly, say you find your dream job. Perhaps it's a new company or maybe a non-profit. Either way, the pay is good, but not enough to cover your debts. Perhaps the job offers amazing opportunities for advancement, but you can't take it because your bills are due NOW.
I know people with MAs and JDs making less $$ than a manager at McDonalds..and they LOVE there jobs. The opportunity to chose your job regardless of the payscale is an amazing one (Live to work or work to live?).
And if anyone, even for one second, thinks that all doctor's, lawyer's, etc. are automaticly rich and happy.....I highly suggest you talk to a few.
Also,one thing that most dancers forget about is that in the "real" world, your monthly income is more or less carved in stone. Whether that paycheck is weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly, chances are it is the same every time. This means, no picking up an extra shift to cover that unexpected bill, vacation, or shopping trip. If you come up short moneywise, there is no extra hustling, no working double shifts. It may not seem like it now, but an extra couple hundred dollars in debt to pay every month is extra money that could be going to much better uses.
So don't beat yourself up over lost time or the empty saving account. Finishing school and the first years working in the world of law are going to be hard enough. Starting out in your "real job" debt free is one of the best gifts you could give yourself.
There are many shades of grey, but basically I agree with Britney that dancing is what you make it. If you're violating your own boundaries you're selling yourself short. If you don't like stripping at all, then obviously you shouldn't be doing it. But if you like stripping and can be autonomous and happy you can make a lot of money, and there's no reason to be miserable about it.
Even being shitty with money you can save a lot. I started dancing when I was underage and I paid cash for a (cheap) house when I was nineteen.
I'm not even a SuperStripper, and it's waay more worth it (both personally and financially) for me to strip than to get a job with my BA or pursue a MA.
Chrissy68
10-15-2007, 11:10 PM
Those same women have stated that money is very different now than in the past and most have had to move around to try to keep earning at the same level. Unless you're a mindreader it takes trial and error to find new income in new towns and new clubs. All of that adds up to instability. Also how many 19-34 year olds with no advanced education can run their dance career like a business? They're rare as hen's teeth.
acutally, i dont think advanced education is what it takes to run a dance career like a business, but instead, common sense and dedication. I think that while I personally happen to be a variation of superstripper, most ladies with college degrees who strip are NOT running their dance career like a business. instead, they see it as a way to live easily and have cash at their disposal whenever they need it.
and, while i did try new things this year, i have not in past years and i've been just fine. in fact, even without my one trip this year, i'd still have broken that big number brit mentioned making per year. granted money was easier to make with less hustling ability 7 years ago, but i still make more now.
whomever said that bit about 1-5 years of learning curve, i do agree to a degree. the more you do ANY job, the more you get better at it, particularly sales.
There are many shades of grey, but basically I agree with Britney that dancing is what you make it. If you're violating your own boundaries you're selling yourself short. If you don't like stripping at all, then obviously you shouldn't be doing it. But if you like stripping and can be autonomous and happy you can make a lot of money, and there's no reason to be miserable about it. ...
I'm not even a SuperStripper, and it's waay more worth it (both personally and financially) for me to strip than to get a job with my BA or pursue a MA.
agree 100% with Lena. Dancing is what you make of it, college or not, degree or not, age 21 or 37.
on the topic of 242's orig. post... plain and simple, she does not like her job, so IMO she should stop now. because she will only continue to make herself miserable. i also happen to be the type of person who only believes in doing things because i'm happy doing them, and not because of money or necessity.
and FWIW, 2k a week is totally doable. even if you are making under 500 a day. but, this is all about goal-setting. if you set yourself up AIMING to make that, you CAN do it. i actually blogged (http://stripaholic.blogspot.com/2007/10/importance-of-goal-setting.html) about this recently. If you hit that 2k before day 5 or 6, take the rest of the week off as you see fit. but it's all about what you set yourself up thinking you are capable of doing.
Optimist
10-16-2007, 04:42 AM
Optimist....you're such a pessimist! ;)
It's fascinating why you have such vehement ferver to dispute everything I say, but you use your opinion not raw statistics to back up your position. I am in the process of researching my statistics, will you please research yours?
Sadly, you're fascinated with something that is purely in your own mind. I have not been vehement or fervent. It's the internet not the telephone and you're not even close to correctly judging my tone. You've used your personal situation as an example of what's typical. It's not. Saying it's possible to do what you've done is one thing and saying it's typical is waaay different. If you love statistics so much then you should be happy to look aroound and actually gather some across the industry instead of picking one or two.
Specifically, what other sales jobs offer immediate cash flow to the tune of 100K/year with no start up fees other than a city license and a pair of stilettos?
The OP wasn't even close to being about that. I get that that's something that gets you excited but that's not what she was discussing.
What degree do you need to start a business? Steve Jobs, Michael Dell, Bill Gates all dropped out of college. They hire CEOs with business degrees, but who do you think makes more....the employee or the owner?
That would depend on the business. Some do require a degree and some don't. Did you read when I said that earlier?
The SuperStrippers I mentioned all have college degrees and have made the same choice to dance over get a straight job. Doesn't that tell you something about the job market? Yes, dancing is different now....but that doesn't mean that it's worse. I know Bridgette had her best summer EVER this year! And so did I! How do you KNOW that they aren't making more money now that they were "back in the day" You don't.
Again, I know from what they have said that money is different--as in less, harder etc., than it was before. You and Bridgette having record years is meaningless in the face of the industry sagging accross the board. Perhaps you blithely ignore those posts because you're making money and could care less about your region's cash flow being down. Perhaps your co-workers problems are a downer to your positive thinking but they are all over this board. And again, most of those girls you hold as beacons have to travel to keep those levels up and that's not an option for most girls. Can't travel, then you're stuck with lower earining potential.
Those are the only two publicly traded strip clubs. The rest are privately owned. I know Steve Cooper who owns Christies isn't hurting right now. Strip clubs are mildly recession proof. The ghetto and blue collar clubs will suffer during hard times, but wealthy men will ALWAYS have discretionary income to spend on on pretty girls and champagne.
Yeah....you know Christies isn't hurting. Christies is not all of Phoenix, the southwest or all of America. All you know is Christie's isn't hurting. Clubs and other places dependent on discretionary income suffer during hard times. Whether ghetto or country, blue collar or white collar. News flash: rich guys budget just like the rest of us. So, no, they won't always have it to spend. Do you think rich men are magical beings who never lose their jobs, get ill, mismanage their finances?
And for my regions dancers banking....hahah...Bridgette and I realized how much we shot ourselves in the foot when we got on here and raved about how GREAT Phx was. We were flooded with traveling dancers! Boy did we learn our lesson!
What lesson? I thought you said it's raining prosperity where you are?:D
xoxoGracexoxo
10-16-2007, 09:15 AM
There are many shades of grey, but basically I agree with Britney that dancing is what you make it. If you're violating your own boundaries you're selling yourself short. If you don't like stripping at all, then obviously you shouldn't be doing it. But if you like stripping and can be autonomous and happy you can make a lot of money, and there's no reason to be miserable about it.
Bingo. There are many ways to make stripping work for you, beyond hitting a magic number and retiring as a millionaire at forty. I think any stripper who makes the job serve her life, rather than changing her life to suit the job, can count herself successful.
For me, I run a small business in a very competetive field in which it is difficult, time-consuming, and expensive to start a career. Dancing is keeping me alive and out of debt until I can make a success of the business. My goals have very little to do with having a lot of money, and everything to do with being able to complete the projects I am passionate about. Right now I use dancing to support myself while I work my ass off on projects that are small and badly paid, with the faith they will lead to projects that are bigger and better paid. By the time I'm ready to retire from dancing (maybe around 30) I plan for my business to be able to support me. If that happens, I will count myself a thoroughly successful dancer, SuperStripper or no.
Britney is absolutely right that dancers should take the job seriously, plan ahead, keep track of their earnings, and maximize the time they spend at the club. But for me personally, if I were to dance full-time and make $2K a week, I wouldn't have time for anything else. I'd find myself retired at forty with nothing to do. For many people, that's a dream come true, and those people are right to go for it. For me, it would be miserable, and I would have missed 13 years of doing the work that I love.
I don't mean to ramble on about myself. Just trying to point out that there are multiple ways to make this job work for you.
NikkiWest
10-16-2007, 10:48 AM
^ Just curious, what career are you pursuing?
Market research (survey geek stuff)
Katrine
10-16-2007, 12:02 PM
Great posts all around! What an interesting thread. I have much to add but I need to get to work.
This makes me think of my office. One of our guys doesn't have a degree at all (he did financial stuff in the military). He works 30 hours a week and rakes in around $250K. It took him about 5 years to get to that level. He could earn a lot more, we investment advisors have MANY ways to get paid (loads, commissions, 12b1 trails, etc, consulting fees, insurance tickets, etc) but that's a comfortable lifestyle for him. In my industry, its not uncommon to earn millions a year, but that usually takes an MBA from a fancy school, years of tenure, lots of stress, and "connections" at high-profile firms.
I really like this guy's approach and hope to be in that position in about 3 years. And I really didn't need an MBA to get there, just hard work, drive, and sales skills.
Yes, sales is where its at, but its not for everyone. Just like I could never be an engineer like my parents, most people cannot be successful in sales.
LatinaRose
10-16-2007, 12:29 PM
Whoa, holy threadjack!! Britney, a lot of girls are interested in your Super Stripper skills. Maybe you should start your own thread with the info?? Personally, stripping is something I can only enjoy if it's part-time. Not everyone can be or wants to be Super Stripper, but it would be handy if those that want to learn from you know where to look for advice.
To the OP - A law degree is a HUGE accomplishment!! Don't dwell on the negative :) Look to the future with a positive attitude!
Joplin
10-16-2007, 12:38 PM
^ yes defiantly
britt244
10-16-2007, 12:53 PM
Whoa, holy threadjack!! Britney, a lot of girls are interested in your Super Stripper skills. Maybe you should start your own thread with the info?? Personally, stripping is something I can only enjoy if it's part-time. Not everyone can be or wants to be Super Stripper, but it would be handy if those that want to learn from you know where to look for advice.
To the OP - A law degree is a HUGE accomplishment!! Don't dwell on the negative :) Look to the future with a positive attitude!
that's my thing. i don't want to do this forever. i just don't know how to get out because i kinda have a huge crush on this thing called money... :P
i need to go into sales. i'd be good at it but it has nothing to do with my degree.. but kat says that doesnt matter so yay!
Glamazon
10-16-2007, 01:37 PM
This is a really interesting thread!!
Britney definitely has some valid points. I can also say (since I know her personally) that she knows her stuff and that she has the best intentions, which is to help out the girls...the ones that want her help, that is. Perhaps some people reading and participating in this thread saw her posts as a personal attack on themselves, but I can say from knowing her firsthand, that she's just not that way. If you don't like or can't appreciate the wisdom that she has, that's fine, but try not to take her examples as an insult to your own choices...
Danielle_
10-16-2007, 02:07 PM
Danielle, if you are a weak person, you would have gotten "sucked into bad stuff" if you were a waitress, or a student, or a Walmart greeter. I saw more drugs at Frat Parties than I have EVER seen at the strip club.
I know this is pretty ot but I just wanted to sat that I've been a cashier at various places & have never been offered drugs. Also I think someone is a lot more likely to drink if someone is working in a bar & someone's offering to buy them drinks than if I took it upon myself to show up drunk for work at burger king or somewhere.
shakti
10-16-2007, 05:38 PM
As far as violating personal boundaries I don't allow it, but I still feel like a particular kind of tolerance is necessary to be a money making stripper. There are so many hot women out there, and there's a reason why a small percentage of them can stick with stripping as a long term option. For example, neck kissing. I hate it and don't allow it, but usually it happens first. Like, I wouldn't start a dance by saying "Do not kiss my neck", but often enough it suddenly happens. So, it's necessary to have the type of tolerance that allows you to bounce back from some old stranger's lips smacking away at your neck before you expect it.
Touching and at least a bit of grinding are a VIP upsell at my club, and it would be a challenge to make over $500 in a shift without some VIP. Ass touching I will tolerate, boob touching I will not. I don't love it but I find it tolerable in respect to the greater amount of money I'm receiving. So, that's what I mean by there's more to it than just equations, there has to be that ability to deal well with the more unsavory aspects if you want to dance many nights a week over a long period of time.
Alaska
10-16-2007, 05:51 PM
^Yea, absolutely. Actually it's surprising to hear how shocked and betrayed some dancers are when similar "small-time" stuff like that happens to them.
This is a seriously great thread. Lol I just PM'd Bridgette regarding something else and used the term "super stripper" with my name in the same sentence, maybe that's annoying now that I had the chance to see this thread again and realize just how many x's "Super Stripper" was said, and plus I know how annoying it can be to give out info without so much as a "thanks", and then have girls flooding yr space and trying to do like you...yea it's happened to me too on here...
The bottom line, for me, is there is absolutely no point in this job if I don't do it FT and have something to show for it in the end like FREEDOM from bullshit jobs, bosses, The Man.
Money = Power. Overused as that phrase is, no one can deny it.
miabella
10-16-2007, 06:14 PM
one thing that i've noticed in the recollections of dancers who've done it for a decade or so is that their own personal boundaries got more and more redefined to allow more contact. they got comfortable over the years with stuff that was incomprehensible when they started dancing.
if you never ever ever ever want to touch a customer even to take his arm, you honestly can't be assured of making any 500+ per night regularly these days, though years ago this was totally possible to make in stage tips alone. and that's just one example of changes in the business in barely ten years.
that's a subtle violation of personal boundaries, but if you aren't of a personality type that can handle that sort of shifting over the years, it would pretty obviously be quite a feat to maintain SuperStripperness over any extended period of time.
mollyzmoon
10-16-2007, 08:31 PM
^^I agree. I actually started off allowing for more contact (as was the norm at the club, at the time). It was okay at first, and my first year of dancing was my most profitable. I had many $800+ nights, and we don't have VIP (so just off the regular $20 dances). But then I got messed up, started having panic attacks, and couldn't handle it anymore. I've heard the story about the holocaust survivor, and that's amazing. But why should I have to Personally Persevere over my psychological issues with strange men perving out on me? It's not a great analogy, because money isn't such a great reason to run my psyche through a wood chipper.
Also, I'm not so sure that student strippers who do it for the extra cash are 'most likely' to become the drugged up drunk ones. That...really doesn't seem to be the case, at least in my experience. I'm like the most boringly sober person you could meet. Lots of the girls who dance every night where I am are the ones chopping up lines in the bathroom.
Now I can make $500/ night sometimes, and more often $300 a shift (I just don't like sticking around for longer than 4 hours a shift). Because I absolutely can't compromise on my comfort level. And whatever...and still I just don't want to be working in a bar in ten years. It'll probably mean a pay reduction, and that's okay. I'm not arguing this clearly, except I think it's important to remember relative personal values. Not everyone needs to have loads and loads of money to feel fulfilled.
(Which is what I'd say to 242--- I have many friends who are in school and massive piles of student debt, and they STILL piss money away...to get into more debt. Things may not have worked out as you planned, but you're probably still ahead of the curve. You're still young, you're educated, and financial missteps happen, you know? I'm not money clever by any stretch, but it seems like you're doing well for yourself, all things considered. And I just reiterate my point about everything else in life that makes people happy...how many people get to travel to Egypt?! :) )
242_fair
10-17-2007, 07:31 AM
Ya know, I started this thread thinking
20 hrs school + 20 hrs work per week = delayed degree (and that sucks)
then, Brittney decided
20 hrs school + 20 hrs work per week = YOU DIDN'T SAVE ENOUGH, YOU ARE NOT A SUPER-STRIPPER,... strippers make more money than any other profession blah blah blah.
Um no offence, but I don't want to try to build my life up on stripping, your comments should be directed at someone who does.
Money = Power. Overused as that phrase is, no one can deny it.
I prefer
KNOWLEDGE = POWER
and
EDUCATION = POWER
Money is a means to an end for me, it is not THE end.
Alaska
10-17-2007, 01:45 PM
Yea, I was just discussing the 'other side' to this thread, it seems to have "mysteriously" split in 2. A good discussion all around and I see how you might feel judged against based on other ppl's posts, but hopefully it wasn't personal. The time and place maybe shouldn't have been in your thread since the super-stripper deal isn't your deal, sorry that it got so sidetracked, however it was in a mostly good way. I summed it up with $$$=power, because for me, money can buy the education and money can buy the time you need to NOT work to dedicate yourself to the fullest for the education.
I totally feel you on feeling delayed. But there's usually only 2 ways to go about it: work PT or FT & school FT, -or- saving up bucks so you can live off that while you go FT. Delayed some either way, or just really hardcore. Unless you are a rich kid who's gotten a free ride since the age of 18, life's tough with working and school. At least we have the advantage of having a PT job like stripping; imagine how much harder it would be if we were baristas. Which makes up prob most college kids, that just have to work a lil harder. (Again slightly OT, but the bottom line is....most ppl here see your point. Hopefully.)
miabella
10-17-2007, 03:28 PM
it does kinda feel like the thread devolved into infomercial territory for a bit there. no idea where the rest of the posts went.
'cashflow businesses', not limited by any means to stripping, i think are not suitable for every person. but since they end up giving you money every time you work, a lot of people enter into them (be it baristaing, waitstaffing, bartending stripping, cabdriving, escorting, etc) thinking it will work out really awesomely. and for some people, getting cash every day is a great way to head towards a life of passive income investments.
but the very nature of getting paid daily makes it far more difficult to save. there are day laborers with 100k in the closet/investments/etc because they saved a little every day, but it's nuts to expect more than an infinitesimal percent of day laborers to save so well.
but then again, i feel 242's pain. at least the stripping money went for something you value (tuition towards a degree). that's always a comfort.
After throughly reading and digesting everything said in this post, most of the comments confirm what I have always felt after years in this business. This job is not for everyone.
Being succesful as a dancer is comparable to being successful as a small business owner or an entrepreneur. You have to have the ambition to be well off in life, and have come to the realization that working in a "rat race job" (a term borrowed from the Millionaire Mind CD) is a path to a mediocre existence.
A dancer needs to have a beat the system mentality, and find a spouse or partner who has the same, and not care what other mainstream rat race family members and acquaintances think of how you make a living.
Look at many successful salespeople. Most are jivey, funny, and have the gift of gab. Now look at many dancers. How many of them can you say fit that role? Many are the "don't touch me here, don't touch me there" types. Many can't laugh off sexual advances or jokes from the customers. Many are kind of prudes who never saw the sexual nature of a man so blatantly before. Many aren't comfortable keeping in touch with good customers, and don't have the ability to play along with a customer who is "in love" and get maximum bucks from him while he lasts.
And you really can't blame many of these girls. If EVERY club had meetings and training for it's dancers, teaching them how to dress, how to interact with guys, and deal with issues that many can cause, things could be better. If dancers were discouraged from smoking, drinking, and doing drugs, and told how to deal with guys who want to have sex, things could be better. If they were taught how to deal with disapproving parents, and boyfriends, and taught how to save and invest money, things could be better. If dancers had a manager to confide in when guys got out of hand, things could be better. But most clubs are not interested in developing their dancers personally and professionally. They are just interested in maximizing profits. So that creates a feast or famine environment for the majority of dancers.
Many dancers just see this business as quick money and figure in the future they will get a real job.
Most people in life don't have what it takes to be self employed, They need the structure of a paycheck job. They need to fit in with society. The uncertainties and pressures of being self employed and not having a regular payday are too much for them.
And dancing has always been a means to an end. I don't think one has to be a "Super Stripper" to be successful. Girl who have already committed themselves to full time work can learn to advance their lives financially with some direction. Anyone who has commited to being a "reliable" stripper can be groomed to grow their stripper earnings.
Most so called "high end" clubs have very erratic earnings nowadays. I worked for Steve Cooper the CEO or Christies, and many other clubs he has owned, sold, and had shut down over the years and his business isn't what it used to be. It's slowed down dramatically. Many of you don't know he owned several black clubs in Memphis, plus Platinum Plus which was closed down. He is a bigot and a shaky individual.
Good money can be made in any club where a dancer has a favorable following. That does not have to be an upscale club. Where money can be made will vary with the girl.
But 242 Fair doesn't feel dancing is for her, so she should focus on her remaining year in college and see where life takes her. Being an attorney can be more competitive than dancing. Every attorney or doctor isn't making $500,000 + a year. Many aren't even making $100,000. But quite possibly she will find her niche in the legal field more so than in the strip club. Dancing is a sales business and sales isn't for everyone. Maybe the corporate world is more for her, and if so I wish her the best.
For those of us who don't want to be part of the rat race,who like having control of our money, and who are entrepreneurially inclined, stripping can allow the flexibility to open the doors necessary to make real money in life.
As the saying goes, having a rat race job gets in the way of making real money.
likewow
10-17-2007, 08:42 PM
I have been following this thread with interest, as both the blog posts Britney linked to/posted are mine ( and ) I'm outing myself here - not that it matters since no one knows who the hell I am. ::) But anyway, that's my blog. I haven't felt like posting recently, but maybe I will pick it up again at some point.
I would like to add, after reading the whole discussion, that I think hourly averages are very important. I know a lawyer who makes $130k/year, but she works more than 60 hours a week for that. That works out to $43/hr. I think most highly motivated dancers are making at least that per hour, if not much more. If we want to fairly compare the raw earnings potential we really have to compare apples to apples - how much does a doctor or lawyer make working 60, 40, or 20 hours per week versus a stripper working the same number of hours? I work 40 hours a week. I know a lot of other girls on here do, too. My income is a bit less than double what it would be if I worked a "stripper standard" 20-hour workweek. It's a bit less than double because there is a factor of diminishing returns, but I still find it well worth my time to work 40 hours rather than 20. If I were to work 60 hours a week, the way my lawyer acquaintance does, I could reasonably expect to take home about double what she does (or around a quarter million a year.) I don't work 60-hour weeks because I don't want to work that much. I wouldn't want to work that much whether I was a stripper or a lawyer, but if I was a lawyer I wouldn't have the option of working less (at least not in the first decade or so of my career.)
Overall, I think Tina's summary is best. The fact is that stripping is not for everyone. I can do it 40 hours a week without feeling emotionally drained or in any way compromised, and I work in a moderate-high contact club. I like what I do. I've never been a doctor, lawyer, or consultant, but I actually enjoy stripping so much that I seriously doubt I would like any of those other options as much as I like stripping. This is why I can do it for 40+ hours each week consistently.
I have always viewed my job - any job - as a means to an end. I am not the kind of person who defines myself by what I do to make money. In our society, "what do you do?" is the first question people ask after, "what is your name?" This always seemed strange and wrong to me. I dislike the concept that people are defined by some specific label or role. Long before I started stripping, I knew that my only reason for ever entering the labor force would be to amass capital in order to develop passive income so that eventually I would no longer have to work. I tried a few different thing before finding stripping. So far it is working very well for me as a way to quickly amass capital that I can use to fund various investments.
britneyireland
10-17-2007, 09:07 PM
Like.....Wow! I love your blog! Please start it up again!
I attached the spreadsheet of median salaries of Professional Careers. I got the info from Salary.com, and included the 10, 50, and 90th percentiles.
Edit....I uploaded, but it's not showing up. I'm tech retarded.
Edit #2 I just uploaded it on my blog and made it today's blogpost. If interested you can go to http://blog.myspace.com/azavalon If you are not interested in my financial wisdom you don't have to go there. The choice is yours.
likewow
10-18-2007, 12:10 AM
^^ Thanks. ;D I like your blog better, though! :P I actually updated today. You were right in your guess that I stopped blogging when I went back to work after my boob job. I don't have as much free time anymore. I was surprised to check Technorati today and see a bunch of new reactions, so apparently people have still been reading it.
I wish you used a different blogging software so one could comment without logging into MySpace. I will comment here, though, since I still think it's a very important discussion. If you can't say that stripping is a good career choice on a message board for strippers, where are we supposed to express such an unpopular opinion?
Thanks for putting together that awesome chart. It is really telling. Not surprisingly, there are a few career options that offer much higher earnings potential than stripping. But if you have no proclivity for either medicine or baseball, stripping is a damn good option compared to most of the rest of the list.
I'm PM'ing you about your accountant. ;)
DylanAngel
10-18-2007, 04:35 AM
Well I don't consider myself part of any "Rat Race". I have a very entrepeneurial spirit; I just happen to LOVE advertising and prefer to leave the headaches to someone else.
I also don't consider my job to be mediocre. You see ads that I work on in every womens' magazine out there (pharma ad industry - birth control) and I feel part of a big, important picture.
I wouldn't trade in my stripping years for anything. It gave me the freedom to raise my kids without daycare and it paid for my education.
But just because you've chosen a different path in life doesn't mean that everyone who chooses to do the 9 to 5 is mediocre, lazy, or a sheep.
242, I applaud you. You might have some doubts and some regrets, but you now have an education. This leads to a better place in life even if you never used it. Knowledge IS power.
BTW, Brad and I have less than 10 years before he takes over the family business. I still plan to work at my job, though it wouldn't be needed, because I love it. My job is not a means to an end like stripping was. I actually enjoy it.
francescadubois
10-18-2007, 08:34 AM
But just because you've chosen a different path in life doesn't mean that everyone who chooses to do the 9 to 5 is mediocre, lazy, or a sheep.
Yeah, I get the feeling that some on here look down on the girls who don't do this full time as a career. I don't think it means that we "can't hang" or are not true hustlers or businesswomen. Like I said in the other thread (How has stripping served you?), there are many people who are wildly successful who have not stripped a day in their lives, and even though they are very successful businesspeople/entrepreneurs, they may have not necessarily made for good strippers.
Also, I think we are not factoring in skyrocketing housefees, as well as the overall overhead of dancing that takes a LOT of money out of dancers' pockets, as well as increased expectation for higher contact. I'm sorry, I'm just not convinced that you are gonna always make the same amount of money when we have all these gorgeous new women (immigrants, young naive 18 year olds) who are doing a lot more for a whole lot less. Even most of the sophisticated gentlemen at the upscale places will be more inclined to accept some good conversation and an HJ from a gorgeous girl than JUST good conversation from an equally gorgeous girl. I don't think this INDUSTRY is stable enough anymore for a lot of women, even good businesswomen, to be comfortable with being in this industry much longer.
Just my $0.02.
ahmeerah
10-18-2007, 08:50 AM
Regarding Tina and the rat race:
Stripping and lower-end entrepeneurships is still a rat race in a sense. if you don't work you don't get paid. The best way to earn $$$ is to make it while you're sitting on your ass and sleeping.
Forms of entrepeneurship that don't require you to get paid only by working are the best way to go. Stripping always requires you to be there to get paid.
francescadubois
10-18-2007, 09:16 AM
Regarding Tina and the rat race:
Stripping and lower-end entrepeneurships is still a rat race in a sense. if you don't work you don't get paid. The best way to earn $$$ is to make it while you're sitting on your ass and sleeping.
Forms of entrepeneurship that don't require you to get paid only by working are the best way to go. Stripping always requires you to be there to get paid.
Great point!!
LatinaRose
10-18-2007, 09:27 AM
The fact is that stripping is not for everyone. I can do it 40 hours a week without feeling emotionally drained or in any way compromised, and I work in a moderate-high contact club.
I think that statement and overall message is what is getting people annoyed. Saying stripping is only for those who can work like a regular job is completely untrue. It's just not so black and white as you guys are trying to make it seem. The great thing about stripping is the flexibility. It allows you to work the job as you see fit, whether that's full-time for early retirement, to pay for school, or to supplement your income. One is not better than the other as long as you are doing what makes YOU happy.
ETA: And what if we all just decided to be "Super Stripper'? I have a feeling it would be a lot harder to make money.
242_fair
10-18-2007, 09:30 AM
Well last week when I posted this thread I was having a 'glass half empty' day...
Today I feel like: with the benefit of dancing I have been able to afford things I otherwise could not... because of dancing I have had a safe reliable car, decent place to live, made a little investment (my little apartment in Cairo), and was able to travel to work on my specialization in international Oil and Gas laws, and learn a regional language to that end...
I still feel bad to see everyone who started in my class back in 2004 graduated without me, it's depressing to hear about their cool jobs while I'm still stuck in the library, but whaddyagonnado?
PS Brittney, if you're so rich why can't you pay off your student loans?
miabella
10-18-2007, 02:54 PM
if the interest rate on those student loans is sufficiently low, she may feel there's no point to anything more than modest monthly payments over a long time. but i won't presume, it is just a theory. i haven't paid off my perkins loan for example because any payment pays down the principal since the interest rate is almost but not quite zero. so for me, paying a small amount for years is more sensible than paying a lump sum down (credit building! long-term account in good status!) and using more of my money for investment.
re: the salary.com thing, statistics are like a bikini-- what they reveal is tantalizing, but what they conceal is essential... this is especially true when one considers that stripping does not have any reliable income statistics. salary information on it is wholly anecdotal and self-reported and even more unreliable than non-cash industry self-reports of salary. thus it's quite misleading to compare it to jobs that at least have govt data attached in addition to self-reports and surveys of HR folk.
britt244
10-18-2007, 03:03 PM
I think that statement and overall message is what is getting people annoyed. Saying stripping is only for those who can work like a regular job is completely untrue. It's just not so black and white as you guys are trying to make it seem. The great thing about stripping is the flexibility. It allows you to work the job as you see fit, whether that's full-time for early retirement, to pay for school, or to supplement your income. One is not better than the other as long as you are doing what makes YOU happy.
ETA: And what if we all just decided to be "Super Stripper'? I have a feeling it would be a lot harder to make money.
thank you. that statement was really rubbing me the wrong way.
As I said, stripping can allow the flexibility needed to make real money in life.
What that means is that it can provide seed capital and the freedom to choose where and when you work, so that you have time to focus on building a business of your own that can provide PASSIVE income, ie: income made without you physically having to be present to make it.
Look at the formula for most large strip clubs. Charge a flat house fee and bring in as many dancers as the club can. Look at the beauty and barber shop industry and nail salons. The owners of the shops charge space rent, and many owners who have multiple properties collect more monies in space rents than the stylists earn in revenue working 5 days a week.
Residual or passive income of course is the way to go. If you are tied to an 8-5 job 5 days a week, with 2 weeks of vacation per year, you don't have much time to focus on becoming financially independent.
But as I also said, everyone is not cut out to break free from the paycheck work force.
DylanAngel
10-18-2007, 04:17 PM
Residual or passive income of course is the way to go. If you are tied to an 8-5 job 5 days a week, with 2 weeks of vacation per year, you don't have much time to focus on becoming financially independent.
But as I also said, everyone is not cut out to break free from the paycheck work force.
Well then thank God I have almost 4 weeks vaca, unlimited paid sick days (as long as you don't abuse them) and I work 9 to 5 with an hour lunch (35 hours a week). My new expense account pays for quite a few of my meals and gas/mileage during the week as well.
You're still sounding condescending Tina. There are plenty of people out there that have the skills, backing and ability to be business owners or even super strippers but prefer not to because they're quite happy.
Not everyone strives to be rich. That's a sweeping generalization. I could generalize just as much by using all the stereotypes regarding super strippers as well, but what's the sense?
One other point. Age and life experience are key here. The girls who are older and who have "been there and done that", are speaking from experience. They have had office jobs and been through the office politics, have been married or experienced a lot of bullshit, before finding a decent man who is on their level, and they have grown out of their party years.
Many college aged girls feel that when they get out of school, they will be making the big bucks, and life will be good. Just like the title of Suze Ormans book, "Young, Fabulous, and Broke." Britney was merely stating to sum it up, that getting a paycheck job in your career field is not always the utopia many graduates expect." It's good to look forward to graduation, but not to feel that grass is going to necessarily be greener in the office job over the strip club. It can be the same old bullshit, just in a different place. Many people get tired of having to wake up early every day, get home after dark, only be able to have time off when everyone else is off work, and get the same paycheck every 2 weeks which is spent before you get it.
And 242 Fair, why would she want to use up all her money paying off student loans? Using your money to create income is most important. Once that happens, the loans can be paid off without depleting her cash and business capital.
Only time will tell how a specific career path will go.Once you guys under 30 get in your 30's and older, you will probably have a different outlook on things than you have now.
Melonie is a glaring example of how this business can be used as a STEPPINGSTONE to financial independence. I don't see her ever entering the paycheck workplace again.
Some business savvy dancers should learn how to start becoming owners of major strip clubs, and create an environment that can groom young dancers to handle the business and be able to get ahead in life from dancing.I always hear the same crap that it's a risky investment, but many men are profiting handsomely from it.
DylanAngel
10-18-2007, 05:24 PM
One other point. Age and life experience are key here. The girls who are older and who have "been there and done that", are speaking from experience. They have had office jobs and been through the office politics, have been married or experienced a lot of bullshit, before finding a decent man who is on their level, and they have grown out of their party years.
You're right about this. My plan all along was always to be in advertising and yes, it's a long slippery rope but I'm not far from a cushy office...had I not had the kids and the years of stripping, I'd be in it right now.
You younger women need to pick a path and stick to it. So much time is wasted by stripping just to have some freedom and some ready cash. Don't blow your money and have nothing to show for it but some nice shoes.
If you don't want to go the entrepeneurial route then make sure you use your stripping money for an education. Also, watch out for the time spent away from regular work. Those gaps are hard to explain. Lucky for me, I could use the kids/housewife excuse for the gap.
Whichever route you choose, go whole hog towards it. Tina and I are on different paths, but the intent is the same. She runs her stripping like a business and I work my job like I own the business. Both of us are satisfied and have the means to do what we want (although she can do it WHEN she wants ;) ).
Just don't end up 40 with your best years behind you with nothing to show for it and no plan for the future.
miabella
10-18-2007, 05:29 PM
show me a stripper with 100 million in the bank and i'll believe that stripping is a path to wealth. until then, it's one of many cash-income employment options, but among the more unstable subset of those employment options.
me, i can't wait until pole-dance is an olympic gymnastic sport, since that is something likely to happen, hopefully while i am still of an age to compete.
i do find it pretty amusing that britneyireland has decided to compete in dancerwealth's chosen sales-market...
mollyzmoon
10-18-2007, 05:34 PM
I for one don't expect to make a fortune with my degree. I expect to get by...I mean, I'm perfectly aware of people with B.A.s who end up at Chapters. I just think that for some people (and I think Tina was saying something to this effect), loads of money doesn't make a job like dancing worth it. And I don't think it's a personal defect, I think there are just different value systems in place. Which is fine. I don't think being in debt makes someone a bad person.
DylanAngel
10-18-2007, 05:36 PM
i do find it pretty amusing that britneyireland has decided to compete in dancerwealth's chosen sales-market...
I don't understand this statement Mia./:O
miabella
10-18-2007, 06:00 PM
she's hoping to turn the concept of SuperStripper into a sales business and/or book. complete with an array of products to improve one's SuperStripper sales skills, all reasonably priced of course.
who better to sell to strippers than a fellow-stripper, right?
at least, this is the impression i get from her blog and the sales-pitchy tenor of many of her recent posts.
Katrine
10-18-2007, 10:55 PM
There are plenty of fields where one can find business ownership and financial independance outside of stripping. However, stripping is one of them. As long as we do not let entitlement win us over, we can ALL be successfull at ANY of our chosen pathis. Including exotic dancing, or whatever you want to call it.
NinaDaisy
10-18-2007, 11:11 PM
There are plenty of fields where one can find business ownership and financial independance outside of stripping. However, stripping is one of them. As long as we do not let entitlement win us over, we can ALL be successfull at ANY of our chosen pathis. Including exotic dancing, or whatever you want to call it.
True. While I agree with a lot of what Tina says in terms of if someone chooses to be a stripper she needs to form a clear path and that the industry could by far be more supportive, I don't agree that a "real job" isn't a pathway to financial independence.
I know several people who have made as much or less than many dancers I know who still achieved financial independence at a relatively young age. The one thing they have in common is prudent investing and living within their means.
Strippers are notorious for spending too much on dumb shit, but the fact is that lots of non-strippers do it too. I like my nice handbags and shoes too, but I have enough of those. I'm more interested in saving at this point.
Melonie
10-19-2007, 02:57 PM
show me a stripper with 100 million in the bank and i'll believe that stripping is a path to wealth.
well, you'd have to do the math ... but how about earning a guaranteed $700 an hour (with a pre-paid deposit), 8 hours a day, 100 days a year, for say 10 years ? Plus feature fees, internet earnings, modeling fees ... it might not be 100 million but it sure starts to look like 10 million with compound interest !!!