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Jenny
11-03-2007, 07:26 PM
Well, is this college or high school english? If college English - yes. And you don't NEED to be taught both concepts - it's a matter of needing to KNOW both to teach one.

And like I said - they are not expected to be omniscient - but the school is expected to not hire professors that have to consult the "real" professors on hard questions. Although now that you mention it - there are very few questions that my prof don't know "the answer" (such as they are) to. I'm pretty sure that it has more to do with the ability and knowledge of the professors than the stupidity of the students, but take from that what you will.

But really - you didn't mention - isn't geology and physics kind of related? I suspect you might be relying on my lack of knowledge in these fields to just not realize that. I just checked my school's website and they have all sorts of collaborative programs. I think your example might be more competant than you were letting on. I did my undergrad in English, and I'm finishing a graduate degree in a non-scientific field - do you think I should be teaching a geology course? Presuming that I'm intelligent enough to get a degree from a good school, read ahead and am capable of asking the real geology professors the hard questions? Am I qualified?

UtahMike
11-03-2007, 08:02 PM
Yes, these are university classes I am talking about.

Yes, geology and physics are related. They are both hard science classes.

As to whether or not you are qualified to teach geology, I can't take a stand on that without a lot of information you will not want to post on StripperWeb, such as your transcript, your C.V., letters of reference, etc. And then I would want to interview you and find out how much you do know about geology. That would get you one class to teach with a mentor assigned to help you. If you survived that, you would get other classes to teach independently.

I will say that I think I could teach Introduction to Geology. I've had the one introductory course I mentioned, about 40 semester credits in sundry sciences, but not enough in any one to get a major or a minor. But I have had a lifelong interest in geology and have done considerable self study. I've also authored an online multimedia textbook which has been used for teaching geology at all levels of education through undergraduate. I've been told (by geology professors) that had I had a degree in geology and been teaching at the college level, that work would have earned me tenure and an assistant professorship.

BTW, I never said that students who do not ask questions their professor could not instantly answer were stupid. I also never said a person could teach a subject of which they were completely ignorant.

Is it OK if we drop this discussion now with mutual respect? I think I've made my point and you've made yours. You may have the last word.

SportsWriter2
11-03-2007, 08:21 PM
If any of my professors were "learning as they went" in the school I go to now - well, there is just no way that would happen. If it did, they would be eaten alive by the student body.
I went to a top-ranked university, and all the best professors were learning as they went. That's how you stay on the leading edge. If a student asked a question, a professor could say, "I've never really considered that approach," and come back with an answer two days or two weeks later. That's what makes a great community of learning.

FBR
11-03-2007, 08:58 PM
I don't have a degree of any kind but I've grown up in my business. I've absorbed a lot of knowledge and contributed some innovation here and there. I think it would be cool to be able to pass along some of what I have learned. There is no degree in my specific field but classes in my field are required in order to earn a mechanical engineering degree. Since retirement isn't all that far in the future, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to talk to some of the local colleges to see if they would be interested. I mean, even after I retire I can't imagine doing nothing.

FBR

yoda57us
11-04-2007, 05:33 AM
I went to a top-ranked university, and all the best professors were learning as they went. That's how you stay on the leading edge.


True Sporty but there is a huge difference between collecting continuing ed. credits or forming opinions based on newer research and having the initial qualifications to teach or tutor on a given subject.

I've pretty much stayed out of this topic though I think there are merits on both sides of it. Twenty five years ago there was no college course curriculum or degree available for what I do. Now there is but graduates are barely qualified for the "real world" part of my gig. I spent three summers mentoring and "tutoring" graduates of a local university in the stuff that college didn't teach them about surviving in an industry that really cares more about what you've done and who you've done it for than what type of diploma is hanging on your wall.

I'm way too lazy to read through all of the stuff posted here but it seems evident that it's very much a case of buyer beware. If a student needs help in her coursework she needs to decide for herself if the person offering it has enough of a clue to help or if he just wants to spend time with a cute stripper.

Mastridonicus
11-04-2007, 06:51 AM
Me? I'm just waiting for the porn where the cable guy comes in and gets shagged by a fortune 500 sexually starved yet ready-to-get-cable-installed (if ya know what I mean) wife, gets replaced by the computer guy coming to repair her computer that she auspiciously left open to her ICHEATONMYHUSBAND.com profile showing her in full spread.

That porno will be framed.

Until then, I don't know any strippers that want to chat in V.I.P. on how to get their UFS2 file system with NT ACLS to migrate over to an EXT2-FS without losing the ACLS. Or something of the sort. :D

Jenny
11-04-2007, 07:16 AM
Sporty. Come now. Staying abreast of current scholarship is hardly the same as staying a chapter ahead. Now you're just being unreasonable.

FBR and Yoda - it's sort of interesting that so many people assume that I was talking about a degree. I mean, what I said was that there needed to be overlap in your background to be an effective tutor - that is, you shouldn't be in the same place as your student; and that being in the same place as the tutoree, and yet assuming that you have something to teach her is indicative of an attitude of superiority. I mean, it seems perfectly obvious that a french person wouldn't need a degree in french to tutor in french. Yoda, interestingly enough in my field now, there is a joke that when you eventually get a job it doesn't matter if you specialized in anything in school because they just assume you don't know anything anyway.

Casual Observer
11-04-2007, 08:02 AM
If a student needs help in her coursework she needs to decide for herself if the person offering it has enough of a clue to help or if he just wants to spend time with a cute stripper.

Have to agree. My education is pretty broad, but I wouldn't offer assistance on something that wasn't a core competency of mine--it's just disingenuous and counter-productive. There's a big difference between being a study partner and being an authority on a subject matter.

yoda57us
11-04-2007, 08:04 AM
FBR and Yoda - it's sort of interesting that so many people assume that I was talking about a degree. I mean, what I said was that there needed to be overlap in your background to be an effective tutor - that is, you shouldn't be in the same place as your student; and that being in the same place as the tutoree, and yet assuming that you have something to teach her is indicative of an attitude of superiority.

I pretty much agree. In my brief and blatant summarization I didn't mean to imply Jenny that you stated that a degree was necessary to have credibility as a tutor.

Honestly I think the whole superiority theme permeates itself in a lot of dancer/customer interaction weather guys realize or not. Anytime some white knight asks a dancer "why are you doing this" or tells her that she is "too good" to be a dancer he is talking down to her. The dreaded "be my girlfriend (or mistress) I will take care of you so you don't have to do this anymore" plea is one I always get a big kick out of...who exactly are we saving these girls from? Us!



Interestingly enough in my field now, there is a joke that when you eventually get a job it doesn't matter if you specialized in anything in school because they just assume you don't know anything anyway.

Yep, pretty much the same in my field. Spending four years and thousands of dollars on an education and a degree entitles you to an entry level position making coffee, cleaning bathrooms, unloading trucks and sweeping floors....for minimum wage or, even better, as an unpaid intern! WooHoo!

Phil-W
11-04-2007, 01:28 PM
Does anyone remember that Monty Python sketch where they can't make up their mind whether it's a three minute arguement or the full half hour?

Déjà vu?

Phil.

Lapaholic
11-04-2007, 01:34 PM
^^^ It was whether he was paying for an argument or abuse - wasnt it... Another was that arguing is not merely saying "No it isnt" , which was their argument... Something like that ... I now have to dig out my Python DVDs .... thanks Phil ...

SportsWriter2
11-04-2007, 06:13 PM
The core exchange in that sketch is this:

Man: Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
(short pause)
Mr Vibrating: No it isn't.

bem401
11-05-2007, 08:28 AM
Okay. So, how does this affect anything I've said? These new facts clearly set this situation apart from the one I was criticizing. Although, if I may point out, you did not put all those facts in evidence. You did not say that girls were looking for your help, you did not say that it was in a subject that you had familiarity with. You said that they complained that an unnamed class was hard. The problem is not with my twisting facts - I think the problem is with you twisting facts. You said you have a background in math - you make a lot of assumptions for a math guy.

The fact that I am a teacher was not news to you when it came out on this thread.



Not even if you could read a chapter ahead and had exceptional rapport with the student? You mean that familiarity with the subject is a little important after all? Well, a) I think you might have been over extending your abilities a little. But if you weren't, and are tutoring in subjects in which you have some background, and wouldn't tutor in subjects in which you don't have background... why are you arguing with me exactly?

I would have to have extraordinarily exceptional rapport with the student to be willing to do that. Not because I wouldn't be able to do a good job of it, because I'm sure I could, but because I wouldn't want to invest a great deal of my time in preparing for something that might never transpire were she to flake out on me. And I do value my time pretty highly. Also, I am not talking about teaching any topics beyond introductory calculus either. Most of the girls, indeed most of the people outside SC's who've needed my help, have not been particularly academically-inclined. In 6 years of SC'ing, I have met and become friendly with only one dancer whose intelligence really "wowed" me. The rest were just nice normal people for the most part.




Dude - look. I'm not a mind reader. You said that you learned the subject as you were teaching it. You deliberately implied a lack of familiarity because I had said that one required familiarity to teach a subject. Now, of course, you're defending your qualifications, so you are claiming that you do have familiarity. Like I said - you don't care what you are saying as long as you are disagreeing with me. Is all this bitterness just because I don't believe that strippers really like you?

I did learn it as I taught it. I didn't know a rhombus from a trapezoid before I taught the class because I never needed to. I had the ability to learn it as I taught it (or just before I taught it) and perhaps that worked for Phil in his tutoring. For me it was an unpleasant experience because it required more effort for me than I wished to put forth or was accustomed to putting forth, and who really wants to do more work for the same pay?

As to what you do or don't believe, it doesn't particularly matter to me and it isn't bitterness. The comments made here reveal more about the person making the comments than the person being commented on.

salsa4ever
11-06-2007, 06:04 PM
I think the crucial point that seems to be missed is the distinction between someone who is just volunteering to teach/offer assistance on a friends basis and someone being paid market rates to teach (which makes them at least semi-professional). The standard of teaching and qualifications are completely different.

I'm currently "tutoring" a Chinese girl who was a cabaret dancer in the French occupation in Shanghai and spoke fluent French. She said she was struggling in her marketing degree I offered to help in exchange her teaching me French. I never had any exposrue to marketing, although I currently teach economics at my university. So I had to go to the library and read up on marketing (I'd been intending to do this but was too lazy so I thought this would be a good way to push myself), and I even crashed a couple of tutorials when I had a timetable gap. I'm pretty confident that I'm of some assistance.

Another point is it's quite easy to underestimate how difficult it really is to learn something that's already foreign in a language that's partially foreign. I went to Shanghai for an Asian Legal Studies subject and it was taught in Mandarin, in which my reading and writing skills were poor (I'm fluent in a related Chinese dialect of Cantonese, spoken in Hong Kong and other places). I came very close to failing the subject and I would have certainly appreciated someone to help me, even if they had nothing to do with Law. Sometimes just searching for what I want is a big pain in the ass, the indexes are different, you're unfamiliar with it all. What I couldn't find in a textbook, my accounting roomate did it in 10 seconds!

I'm not holding someone who doesn't purport to be an expert in the field, and doesn't actually get paid, to the standard of a university professor. If nothing else surely the fact of having gone through the process of getting an unrelated degree puts someone in a better position vis-a-vis someone who hasn't?

Katrine
11-06-2007, 09:07 PM
But are you doing all of this work to impress Shanghai-gal and potentially get into her pants, errr, life? Nothing wrong with that. Just trying to get a feel for your motivation....that's a lot of work for no return on investment!

salsa4ever
11-07-2007, 05:16 PM
^^^

I like teaching. I teach at uni, dance studio, piano in my home, local orphanage, and I've already confirmed a contract to teach English in a primary school in Seoul once I graduate from my law degree in 6 months. Obviously I have to eat, but if I like someone and they're eager to learn and good to teach and nice to look at, then I'm usually open to teaching for free. Wouldn't mind getting paid, but as I've noted my ability to teach marketing is not yet up to scratch.

I've also learned a lot of what I know from people who taught me pro bono... salsa, tango, golf, horse riding, spanish - which is neither here nor there, but it definitely feels good that I'm not just taking others' time for a change!

As for getting in her pants... there's a lot of gals whose pants I want to get into (but not many I'd teach & who want to be taught). That would be nice, and I'll let you know if I do, but I can say if I knew for sure I wouldn't get in her pants I'd still teach her. I still enjoy her company and I enjoy teaching. And learning French too, I love languages, and this is a fun way to learn.

I just don't see it as "work"

xdamage
11-07-2007, 08:28 PM
...but if I like someone and they're eager to learn and good to teach and nice to look at, then I'm usually open to teaching for free....
As for getting in her pants... there's a lot of gals whose pants I want to get into (but not many I'd teach & who want to be taught). That would be nice, and I'll let you know if I do, but I can say if I knew for sure I wouldn't get in her pants I'd still teach her.

Well, but you are also saying there is a still a possibility though as it's not yet sure that you will never get into her pants, but at least you were honest that being nice to look at is a factor.

There is nothing wrong with that, but I think most of these guys have managed to use a lot of words to give every reason for assisting hot women except for "she is hot, and I do things for hot women because I might score". Like I said, nothing wrong with that. It's how us guys are wired, but when we cut through a lot of the crap it just makes everything so much clearer and easier. Put another way, I rather doubt many of these guys would feel so motivated to teach (or offer rides home) to unattractive women (no matter how nice their personalities). Just saying.

Katrine
11-07-2007, 08:40 PM
You don't need to tell me if you score with her salsa. I really don't care. :)

Embyr
11-07-2007, 09:06 PM
I have merely lurked and not posted much here, but I will say.... I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the complimentary aspect of tutoring... if, as the OP (and others) assures us; the dancer(s) in question are fairly intelligent and perceptive, then I find it less of a condescension to be tutored (if they are struggling or need some repetition/additional instruction in a certain subject) than it signifies a major compliment to the tutor in question... it confirms not only his intellect (and no, I didn't say 'superior') and ability to communicate information effectively, but also his position in his field (assuming it's mildly related) and adds a dimension of trust to the relationship. A reasonably intelligent girl won't let an "iffy" guy tutor her... sexual attraction issues aside, everyone needs help at some point, so I really see nothing condescending or improper about being tutored by a customer if he is actually qualified to tutor in a certain subject (and not by staying a chapter ahead... THaT is ludicrous).

xdamage
11-07-2007, 10:24 PM
..A reasonably intelligent girl won't let an "iffy" guy tutor her... sexual attraction issues aside,

Actually that was much my point in the earlier in the thread. We have to trust that these girls are in fact reasonably intelligent, and able to decide for themselves if the customer is being helpful. To assume that they are too dumb to decide for themselves is, itself, incredibly condescending.

Jenny
11-08-2007, 12:35 AM
(and not by staying a chapter ahead... THaT is ludicrous).
That was the entirety of my issue, and it was never framed any wider than that.

salsa4ever
11-08-2007, 06:15 PM
Well, but you are also saying there is a still a possibility though as it's not yet sure that you will never get into her pants, but at least you were honest that being nice to look at is a factor.

There is nothing wrong with that, but I think most of these guys have managed to use a lot of words to give every reason for assisting hot women except for "she is hot, and I do things for hot women because I might score". Like I said, nothing wrong with that. It's how us guys are wired, but when we cut through a lot of the crap it just makes everything so much clearer and easier. Put another way, I rather doubt many of these guys would feel so motivated to teach (or offer rides home) to unattractive women (no matter how nice their personalities). Just saying.

I'd say it's one factor. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Being nice to look at and the possibility of scoring are things that sway me towards giving a favour, but not the only things. It doesn't mean the other reasons aren't reasons. I've given plenty of rides home to unattractive women, or ones with husband and kids.

I recognized you said some people seem to give every other conceivable reason but that one is conspicuously absent. No disagreement from me there, just emphasizing the point that it's not all or nothing.

xdamage
11-08-2007, 06:21 PM
I'd say it's one factor. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Being nice to look at and the possibility of scoring are things that sway me towards giving a favour, but not the only things. It doesn't mean the other reasons aren't reasons. I've given plenty of rides home to unattractive women, or ones with husband and kids.

I recognized you said some people seem to give every other conceivable reason but that one is conspicuously absent. No disagreement from me there, just emphasizing the point that it's not all or nothing.

Oh I'm 100% behind the notion it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Just, and this is a question that you need not answer, but still it can be answered honestly for yourself, have you ever felt any desire to give away free (fill in the blank) to the ?ugly? (for lack of a better word) chick?

If the answer is no, and you are batting 100, then it does suggest that the reality is, there is an element of very predictable behavior here. Like.. If she is hot + personality is tolerable you will do. If she is not hot + personality is tolerable you wont. And if enough guys repeat this same pattern of behavior, at some point we can kind of face the fact that we guys are doing this because they are hotties. LIke I said, it's not a bad thing, but we can still be honest with ourselves about what is really making us tick. I know that's not PC. It make us look like our motivations are ultimately sexual in nature (imagine that!!!). And it implies that the personality factors are secondary to looks, but still, all of that may well be the truth. It's up to us to face it, or not.