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James Bond
11-08-2007, 11:55 AM
Oh BS. As a (presumably) non-psychopath, James Bond, you seem to think that because you can't put yourself in that mindset, it doesn't exist. Or that it is much more rare than it actually is.

Even if this dude isn't a delusional psychopath, it benefits the woman in question to treat him as if he might be, in order to protect her own safety. And really it's not like he hasn't given clues as to his obsessive behavior.

Yeah, she should take precautions, just like any other "relationship." But I don't think he's another "Michael Myers" waiting for some rude behavior to start slashing up the SC. If you read my post prior to the one you quoted, I said don't use the "total ignore option" with him as he may become psycho.

I didn't say to throw total caution to the wind, but there's too much fear-mongering on this thread.

Maybe he's another Jason Vorhees (Friday the 13th) and one slip up from Jaizaine will send him over the edge. ;D

Djoser
11-08-2007, 01:36 PM
What you have with the 'RIL' term is a common type of customer. They get hung upon one dancer, spend lots of money on her over a period of time, won't get dances from anyone else, and think of the dancer as 'their girlfriend' more or less.

Eventually, there comes a time when reality must be faced, and the guy invariably has a disappointment in store for him. 'His girlfriend', isn't. She's in it for the money (of course, it's her fucking job). some of these guys can be strung along for a long period of time, but it gets riskier the longer it's done, unless the guy knows the rules (usually having gone through it before and having accepted the real deal).

You have a guy who is spying on a woman, like finding out what kind of car she has, where she lives, etc., without the express permission of the woman, then you have a guy exhibiting stalking behavior. This is neither fun, cool, nor in all likelihood totally safe for the woman in question.

Get it?

Melonie
11-08-2007, 03:31 PM
Melonie that's just awful about your co-worker. Did they catch the murderer?

Actually, no it's still unsolved. Not surprising I guess since it occurred in a relatively upscale area of a big city - i.e. the cops probably had far less fear of potential backlash from an out-of-state 'stripper's' family over an unsolved murder case than the potential backlash if they discovered and publicized that the bastard who did it was a very rich and well connected local.



You have a guy who is spying on a woman, like finding out what kind of car she has, where she lives, etc., without the express permission of the woman, then you have a guy exhibiting stalking behavior. This is neither fun, cool, nor in all likelihood totally safe for the woman in question. Get it?

Agreed. Without wanting to be accused of fear-mongering, there are many reactions that this guy could potentially exhibit that aren't entirely safe - and that can't be protected against outside the club. Without a f#@king psychoanalysis report you have no way to know how this customer might respond to a 'bucket of cold water' scenario. On the other hand, it's entirely possible that any attempted 'easy let-down' could simply add to his feelings of being 'ripped off - again' to the point of prompting an irrational and dangerous reaction.

If you are unable to move to a different city, and unable to quit dancing in your city, the best that you can probably hope for is that this guy turns out to be a tire slashing 'wimp'. If I were in this situation, at the very least I would invest in security cameras over my doors and an alarm system to hopefully dissuade this guy from attempting a blindside move.

James Bond
11-09-2007, 02:42 PM
What you have with the 'RIL' term is a common type of customer. They get hung upon one dancer, spend lots of money on her over a period of time, won't get dances from anyone else, and think of the dancer as 'their girlfriend' more or less.


OK. The term "RIL" means what? Are you saying that the customer is really in love with the dancer? Or is this just a term you guys came up with to describe some customers who are really attached to one dancer?

Aren't these guys buying the fake GFE when they see the one dancer over a long period of time. If they have a need for a fake BF/GF experience, wouldn't they act like the BF, just like the dancer acts like the GF?

If that's what they're buying, then why does that make them delusional or in some fantasy world? Hugh Hefner is buying the GFE with six beautiful women who he pays $2000 per week, per girl (live in girfriends). Is Hugh Hefner in a fantasy world or delusional? Or does he know what he wants and will pay money to get it?

And aren't most guys going into the SC really buying some form of GFE, weather it's dances or fake friendship?

Phil-W
11-09-2007, 03:03 PM
OK. The term "RIL" means what? Are you saying that the customer is really in love with the dancer...does that make them delusional or in some fantasy world?

In some cases unfortunately - yes.

To cut a long story short, I've been friends with several dancers outside of work for a number of years. I often run them home from work (and on occasion other dancers if they're going the same way). I hear a lot of their stories and gossip. And yes - stalking does happen.

One's I'll personally vouch for.

1) The dancer who had to move because a guy followed her car 30 miles home and turned up on her doorstep.

2) The dancer who has an obsessive customer who wouldn't take no for an answer. Eventually he took to staring out every potential customer she sat with and scratching her car outside of work.

3) The dancer who explained to a love sick customer that she never saw customers OTC. He brought in presents for her for a year, despite her saying not to, then accused her of leading him on. Made a scene a few times in the venue to try and stop her talking to any other customers.

4) The dancer who never left her house except with a friend because some stalker go in the habit of parking his car outside. (Hefty mortgage so couldn't move).

I'm not saying every disillusioned ex-regular turns into a stalker - but it does happen.

Phil.

Djoser
11-10-2007, 03:27 AM
OK. The term "RIL" means what? Are you saying that the customer is really in love with the dancer?

Sorry, I get annoyed when people constantly use 'internet acronyms', but I just did it myself, lol. Usually I just blow it off if it's used in reference to something I have said, and I don't know what it means, unless I actually give a rat's ass what the person replying thinks. Otherwise, who fucking cares?

But I will do the polite thing, and explain. 'RIL' means Regular In Love. By definition they tend to be delusional. Falling in love with a woman who requires payment for every portion if the night she spends with the man in question is a pretty futile thing for the guy to do. They may think they are in love, but it's not a healthy, fulfilling form of love.

Nonetheless, it happens all the time. Sad but true, one of the hazards of the business for both parties, ultimately.

jaizaine
11-11-2007, 07:35 AM
He came in last night and I ignored him for most of it. I said hello etc to him. He had money for me but I just tried to stay away from him by dancing for other customers.

His reaction to being ignored was to remain at the club the entire night - until 6:30am!!!!

He even thought he was trying to help my friend and I by walking up and telling some guys to get dances off us? The guy turned around and said "what do you think you are a pimp or something?". It was embarrasing. After we did the dance for those guys the RIL walked up to me and said "I'm glad I could help you get that dance".

I discussed him with the bouncers and management and have been told by them that he annoys all the staff at the club. He tries to befriend everyone and joke with them. One bouncer told me that one night he was out the front while the bouncer was throwing a guy out and the guy fell into RIL and RIL (in the words of the bouncer) screamed like a little bitch. So it seems there is not much truth to his stories that he is some marital arts expert - he told me he was up to the Dan level in karate or some form of martial arts. I didn't think it was true.

So hopefully, having heard that story, he would turn out just to be a pussy who would only slash tyres or something.

Budai
11-11-2007, 08:17 AM
One bouncer told me that one night he was out the front while the bouncer was throwing a guy out and the guy fell into RIL and RIL (in the words of the bouncer) screamed like a little bitch. So it seems there is not much truth to his stories that he is some marital arts expert - he told me he was up to the Dan level in karate or some form of martial arts...

I don't know about attaining "the Dan level", but RIL's definitely reached the Nancy level...

Phil-W
11-11-2007, 04:54 PM
He came in last night and I ignored him for most of it. I said hello etc to him...His reaction to being ignored was to remain at the club the entire night - until 6:30am!!!!

I wonder if the club is his social life. If he's socially isolated outside of it, then coming in to the club and buying your time might be as close to friendship as he can get.


He even thought he was trying to help my friend and I by walking up and telling some guys to get dances off us?...I discussed him with the bouncers and management and have been told by them that he annoys all the staff at the club. He tries to befriend everyone and joke with them.

Possibly another pointer to the 'socially isolated' hypothesis. If your club's the only place that he can find companionship then he's trying to 'help' you to get back into your good books by 'getting' you dances. Ditto, the talking to the staff - they're a captive audience who won't immediately tell him to get lost.


So hopefully, having heard that story, he would turn out just to be a pussy who would only slash tyres or something.

Which would still be very annoying. I've got to say that I've never directly heard of a stalker doing real harm to a dancer - the cases I know of tend to be car scratching or such like. It's the worry from being followed by a not entirely rational person that gets to the dancers I know that have been stalked.

Phil

jaizaine
11-11-2007, 11:52 PM
^^
spot on there again Phil. I think you are right about the social life thing. He does seem to remember every little thing that goes on in the club. He will sometimes ask me about something that was very minor that happened a week earlier at the club and I often don't remember what he is talking about. So I do think it's a major part of his life.

It's very sad really to think that some people are that lonely. It's a shame.

Do you think it would be of any benefit to bring up trying a dating service or would that embarass him? I could ask him if he has met any nice girls and then if he says no I could suggest it?

James Bond
11-12-2007, 06:47 AM
'RIL' means Regular In Love. By definition they tend to be delusional. Falling in love with a woman who requires payment for every portion if the night she spends with the man in question is a pretty futile thing for the guy to do. They may think they are in love, but it's not a healthy, fulfilling form of love.

Nonetheless, it happens all the time. Sad but true, one of the hazards of the business for both parties, ultimately.


In some cases unfortunately - yes.


OK. I guess I have a different of opionion of events, so it's good to see what eveyone thinks is going on and make up their own minds. Here's my opinion.

I knew the answers to all my questions, I just wanted to see what you guys would say. "RILs" are not really in love with the dancer. Jaizaine's customer may have been infatuated at first, his infatuation turned into an addiction, which then turned in an obsession. This is why I never go to the SC more than one per week and only spend a certain amount, and no more.

I've seen "RIL" behavior in gamblers and drug addicts. I knew of one guy who went to the casino 2 - 3 times per week. He went through $70,000 in two years. He was obsessed with gambling until he was $30,000 in debt. The more he lost, the more desperate he became, the more desperate he became, the more he gambled. If he would've went to the casino once per week and only spent, say, $150, he never would have become obsessed with it.

I've seen drug addicts do the same thing until they hit bottom. You wouldn't say that a chronic gambler is in love with the slot machine, or the drug addict is in love with drugs. Same with Jaizaine's customer, he's not in love, he's obsessed.

Jaizaine's customer is paying her to be his fake girlfriend. He's not delusional or in a fantasy world. He knows she wouldn't give him the time of day without paying. By spending so much time and money on her, he became obsessed, which wouldn't of happened if he only seen her once per week and spent a limited amount of money.

I guess I have a different opinion with Phil-W's romantasized version of the SC. He thinks that guys fall in love and are in some fantasy world. I don't think that's true at all, but on a rare occasion, a customer may really fall in love with a dancer. But most of these customers are just obsessed and many times lonely.

I don't understand why people on this board confuse infatuation, addiction, or obsession with love. Those behaviors are similiar in some ways, yet they're different behaviors.

That obsession could lead to some stalking behavior, but there again, people in love may stalk, but that doesn't mean he's in love. Many behaviors have commonalities with other behaviors.

If Jaizaine sees her customer as he really is, then she can deal with him better. For Phil-W to say that he's out of touch with reality and he's in love, blah, blah, blah, just confuses and scares Jaizaine. *

* Disclaimer: This is just my opinion, your opinion may vary. We make better decisions if we know many opinions on the same subject.

xdamage
11-12-2007, 07:41 AM
I don't understand why people on this board confuse infatuation, addiction, or obsession with love. Those behaviors are similiar in some ways, yet they're different behaviors.

I guess I don't think it matters. Whether someone is stalking due to obsession, love, infatuation, whatever, it happens that sometimes these people can be dangerous. That's the only thing we keep saying to you.

The bottom line is while it's low risk to you personally to give her advice from an armchair, you are not really carrying the risk of that advise. If you are wrong, oops, but it's not your safety that is on the line.

Given that there are other approaches that would let this guy down more easily, or that involve others like the bouncers and management whose job it is to deal with this, it makes no sense for her not to take advantage of those lower risk solutions.

xdamage
11-12-2007, 07:47 AM
It's very sad really to think that some people are that lonely. It's a shame.


Yes, it's is sad, but these types exist. You are making the correct decision to cut this customer loose.



Do you think it would be of any benefit to bring up trying a dating service or would that embarass him? I could ask him if he has met any nice girls and then if he says no I could suggest it?


Hmm... it doesn't strike me as a good thing, but who knows. Sadly he probably needs to find his own solution in life, and there is probably no one liner that will help him. Sux, but we can't fix every problem in life, or manipulate others into seeing they are delusions. They have to do this for themselves. Ultimately your goal here is to protect you. The downside is you may succeed, and he may emotionally latch on to someone else. But what can you do? Nothing much but speak your mind to management, bouncers, the other girls, and do whatever you need to do to protect and distance yourself from him.

Phil-W
11-12-2007, 12:58 PM
...spot on there again Phil. I think you are right about the social life thing...Do you think it would be of any benefit to bring up trying a dating service or would that embarass him? I could ask him if he has met any nice girls and then if he says no I could suggest it?

I think the immediate problem might be his bad breath, particularly if he's unaware of it. (Although how you tell him might be a problem).

As to dating, etc, I'd be more inclined to approach the problem indirectly. Reason for that is however you ask him he's likely to hint at a gf, etc, for reasons of self esteem.

It might be better to ask about hobbies, interests, etc, and then gently suggest spending more time at those would be a better use of his money.

(I've worked at a number of places across the UK, and know from experience making friends when you first move into an area is not easy. So, I usually join a club or two or maybe enrol for an evening class. Gets you chatting to people in a way that stops you having to intrude into established groups).

I'm not suggesting you spend too long playing social worker, but generally I've found that spending a little time being nice to people sometimes pays dividends.

Phil.

Phil-W
11-12-2007, 01:22 PM
Jaizaine's customer is paying her to be his fake girlfriend. He's not delusional or in a fantasy world. He knows she wouldn't give him the time of day without paying. By spending so much time and money on her, he became obsessed, which wouldn't of happened if he only seen her once per week and spent a limited amount of money.

As I said in an earlier post, I see several dancers outside of work and have given lifts to quite a few more. Many dancers like to exchange gossip, and I've heard a hell of a lot of it over the years. And because it's outside of work, there's no BS involved - it's just dancers talking about the reality of what they do.

I've heard far too many stories from dancers about guys who lavish money on them without realising it is a fantasy. In a couple of cases I've seen obsessed guys at first hand - no way are they looking at things in a rational way.

I can cite you a number of cases where dancers have received serious proposals of marriage from guys who have only met them at work. Not delusional?


I guess I have a different opinion with Phil-W's romantasized version of the SC. He thinks that guys fall in love and are in some fantasy world.

I struggle to find any of my previous posts that say he's fallen in love.

That he's in a fantasy work is for sure - all due respect to Jaizaine, but entirely rational guys do not come in and spend what appears to substantial sum of money without expecting some form of return on it.

Again, as I said in my earlier post, I've known dancers be stalked. Fortunately, they've not come to any real harm, but that doesn't make it any less worrying for the dancer.

Phil.

jaizaine
11-14-2007, 03:51 AM
UPDATE:

Last night my boyfriend was going to the local petrol station and when he walked outside to my car he saw a man standing on the footpath near my fence just starring at the house. He watched my boyfriend get into his car and drive off. When my boyfriend returned the man was still there.

I asked what he looked like and he said he looked greek or italian and shorter than my bf (the customer is greek).

Im really creeped out now. I hope this was just some random guy and it was a coincidence.

Alaska
11-14-2007, 05:46 AM
Whoah. I'm real sorry Jaizaine. If your boyfriend is not the intimidating type, I say find someone who is and will go up to him next time---that's fucking crazy and it prob was him.

RC
11-14-2007, 01:53 PM
Wow not o.k.! Next time have him snap a picture. I'm pretty sure THAT's enough to get you a restraining order.

Really I know it's scary but what are the odds that someone who just looks like this guy thats stalking you happens to be standing outside your house all night?

Djoser
11-14-2007, 02:19 PM
Not good, if that was him. Hopefully the boyfriend being there will force him to realize you have a life of your own, and maybe he will give it up. If not, it's time for further action.

Djoser
11-14-2007, 02:41 PM
I knew the answers to all my questions, I just wanted to see what you guys would say. "RILs" are not really in love with the dancer.

Jaizaine's customer is paying her to be his fake girlfriend. He's not delusional or in a fantasy world.

If Jaizaine sees her customer as he really is, then she can deal with him better. For Phil-W to say that he's out of touch with reality and he's in love, blah, blah, blah, just confuses and scares Jaizaine. *



How the hell do you know the guy isn't delusional?

RIL's may not be in love with dancers in a healthy sense, they may often be confusing obsession with love, to be sure. But they sure have convinced themselves they are in love--because they are delusional.

We're not trying to scare her, but if the guy thinks it's OK to stalk her and act like a fucking creepy geek, he's delusional alright, and I for one would love to give him some much needed therapy, lol...

OK, sorry, the situation isn't funny, but we in the industry deal with these guys all the time. You aren't helping the situation by telling her not to be scared when she has someone fucking stalking her. Of course I would prefer her not to be scared, and maybe the guy is physically harmless--but what really needs to be done is to stop the stalking.


I don't understand why people on this board confuse infatuation, addiction, or obsession with love. Those behaviors are similiar in some ways, yet they're different behaviors.

We aren't confusing them, the fucking geeks who start stalking dancers are. And they are out there, trust me, we have to deal with them constantly. Usually they are harmless, if geeky--but sometimes they cross the line of acceptable behavior, as this guy is doing.

Miaowren
11-27-2007, 10:57 AM
Definitely tell the bouncers! I'd go to the police too if I were you just to see what they say... At least then you've made a note of it and *should* you need their help they already know the story. (Or possibly he has bail conditions that this behaviour is in breach of and they can just go and pick him up!). Or maybe they do rounds near your place at night anyway so it's no trouble to just swing by your street from time to time. You know? Explore your options there.

Fuck, it's so hard to know what to do because crazy people are well - crazy. And unpredictable...

But you need to break the spell so being the 'nagging bitching wife' is a great idea!!

*I think* he's just trying to control you by using fear and shadow puppetry. (Meaning he's just a talking hand trying to appear as much more and using that to herd you where he wants to be??)

Maybe acting DUMB or just not knowing what he's talking about will help? He thinks you're bright enough to pick up on the what the actual meaning of suggesting that particular car was, right?
Or that the information should have some importance to you?

If you didn't react to his sublety and he had to be increasingly clear and open about what he was getting at it may be frustrating and spoil the whole game :) Instead of like **I'm stalking you WOooOOooOO** which is how he likes it - I'm imagining a scene where he explains through tears of frustration...
"Look I'm a stalker! I've been stalking you! And you are supposed to be scared!!" To which you reply
"Ohhh." Even though it's pretty clear you still don't get it...:boobies:

Or if he'd been observing the wrong house and you had no idea what he was talking about... he would look kinda stupid!

Keep an eye on this Fuckbag but don't be scared of the impotent maggot whatever you do, hey Chick? :) :neener:

Alaska
11-27-2007, 10:16 PM
So what's up Jaizaine....have you seen this asshole in your yard since then? I hope the issue went away!!