View Full Version : i guess it needs to be said
Sophia_Starina
11-12-2007, 04:05 PM
Lola, your signature says it all. We should all try and post with a little more compassion.
The whole issue here is that we all are different individuas, different ages, races and from different walks of life.
Of course we all don't agree with each other but there is a difference in saying, "Suzie Q, you are full of shit, that idea is crazy", versus saying "Suzie Q, I respect your opinion, but I like doing it this way, and this is why".
When you put someone down, it causes them to become defensive. Making someone defensive, causes conflict, and conflict causes arguments.
Be careful when you make a post that you don't disagree with someone in a way that makes them defensive and angry.
IN OTHER WORDS, DON'T POST ANYTHING THAT IS WRITTEN IN A WAY THAT WILL CAUSE SOMEONE TO BECOME DEFENSIVE AND LASH OUT AT YOU.
DISAGREE POLITELY.
I have confronted some of you about this and have not issued you infractions but tried to explain to you to be considerate.
Just like when you attempt to sell a customer. You will not sell him with threats or sarcasm. You sell someone through using rapport. If you tell a potential customer that he is a cheap mother fucker and that he needs to buy some dances from you right now, do you think that will make him buy from you? Of course not, he will most likely say to get the fuck out of his face. You caused an altercation doing that. And haveing an altercation between two people causes disruption amongst others in the club and in this case on SW.
I pride myself as being an easy going and fair person, and those of you who know me can vouch for that, but if SW members insist on making sarcastic comments, you will be given enough infraction points to become suspended from posting.
We don't want to do that, so please guys, disagree RESPECTFULLY, ok!
Bridgette
11-12-2007, 06:45 PM
Ehh, there's a thread like this every few months or so. Same pattern, different year. LOL
velvet
11-12-2007, 06:50 PM
as for me referring to any one person i wasnt. i was talking about lots and lots of it going on from all different people.
Bridgette
11-12-2007, 07:20 PM
^What I'm saying is, we see a thread like this on the regular around here, for years. Every few months or so people start complaining about the meanness, snottiness, etc and saying it's worse than it's ever been. I think it just goes in cycles and people only pay attention when it spills into whatever areas they frequent most or when it gets so bad you can't help but notice.
And then it calms down for a while, until the next round.
velvet
11-12-2007, 07:29 PM
well regardless of how often you feel you see it. it is a valid point and shouldn't be disregarded.
I've noticed overall that there is more arguing, and negativity on here over the past year than during the first year I joined. There could be various reasons for that, but the level of conflict has definately increased.
We all just need to think about how we word our posts.
ExoticEngineer
11-12-2007, 10:16 PM
Damn, I had this really funny and witty comment about riled up natives appeasing a volcano, but I screwed it all up.
So anyway, okay, so once a year we all need a little reminder to behave like grown ups, no big deal. Really, in any community there has to be some point where the hammer drops and people say enough is enough time to real it in a bit. That's the point of having mods and such. And not everyone has been on this board long enough to see the pattern, so sme of them may need the little nudge in the polite direction.....lest they be sacrificed to the volcano. ;)
lestat1
11-12-2007, 10:55 PM
What I've noticed is that if a given post is open to interpretation, usually the most negative possible interpretation is chosen. :(
Well I've been around since this site was born back in 2002 under a different moniker. (Too many of the ones who've been here since the start would know who I am if I disclosed that so I won't) I left for awhile. Came back. Left again. Came back and have been here since. I've never left because of anything here, just personal shit going on in my life. But anyway, my opinion is it goes through cycles, and at times it gets clickish and yes I do think sometimes people get attacked for no good reason and ganged up on. But the bottom line is, I dont get involved with the drama and I dont let what anyone on a message board anywhere says get to me. Yes, that also means a lot of the time I keep my opinion to myself, but trust me, sometimes it's better that way. At the end of the day, the majority of people on here dont personally even know eachother, or who we are as people anyway, and opinions are like assholes we've all got one. It's up to you to take it personally or with a grain of salt. And the cycles will continue, thats just how it goes. In another 6 months there will be another post about how catty it is. When it gets catty, post less or stay away for awhile. It's always worked for me.
AlexxaHex
11-13-2007, 12:02 AM
Truthfully, I'd be sad if something bad happened to one of the regular posters here. I love this place and only because of the people in it.
erotictonic
11-13-2007, 05:26 AM
My stuff: It's my responsibility to post in a courteous way and to be thoughtful of other's feelings and situations.
Also my stuff: My feelings are my own. If a certain post makes me feel a certain way, angry or confused or hurt, then those are my feelings to manage. And it's my choice how I choose to respond to that. I have to own my words and be responsible for what I say, which points back to My stuff:, regardless. One can choose not to communicate with another and draw that boundary based on something they may have posted, one can choose to simply ignore and go on, one can choose to argue (which in alot of cases, leads nowhere), or one can choose to lash out and attack (which solves nothing, and actually makes the situation worse). But all in all, whatever we do in response to a perceived insult, is our choice.
To end the drama simply means to refuse to engage in drama-creating behaviors.
Bridgette
11-13-2007, 06:12 AM
What I've noticed is that if a given post is open to interpretation, usually the most negative possible interpretation is chosen. :(Yeah I notice that too, but seems to me it's been going on for years. Often I feel like every damn thing I say gets taken the wrong way, and it does get tiring, having to constantly fucking explain myself, edit myself, bite my tongue, watch my words, etc. Maybe if people didn't automatically take everything so fucking seriously and negatively, we might not have so many issues.
This is largely why I don't post much these days. I just get SO tired of explaining myself.
Lola Rose
11-13-2007, 09:56 AM
i think also probably who the issue seems worse now then in like.... 2003 is b/c there are a ton more people regularly posting on here then 4-5 years ago. it's sorta like the more people, the more conflicts.
pinupgurl2k6
11-13-2007, 10:47 AM
i have been on this board since 2002. i can honestly say i have never seen so many mean spirited snide remarks and general nastiness here ever.
i dont know what has caused this trend. i would respectively ask that you all please cut it out.
that its all. thanks!
I guess because I don't look at the date of a thread it is a taboo..
I am ready to delete my account. I have met plenty of awesome
ladies on here in the past and haven't had time to really post
but wow talk about flaming and just nasty...
Bellona
11-13-2007, 10:56 AM
I don't think they were talking bad about you sexy...:-\
pinupgurl2k6
11-13-2007, 11:01 AM
I don't think they were talking bad about you sexy...:-\
Thank you.. I just feel bad because I wake up at 4:30 a.m send my bf off
to his surgical rotation, then log in here and no I am not exactly awake
but I had no idea.. like the other work thread.. has gotten just nasty
I have never been smacked around for not wanting to work in the CS
industry or called racist! on top of getting bitched at for bringing back
dead threads.. if the thread is dead then okay but geeze.. I had no
idea it was such a big deal it's been a long time since I had time to
post on here and always had fun with everyone.. this was a place
to actually vent or talk to other women that work in the same environment
ask questions or get advice not hurt each other or freak out over something
as simple as a dead thread my bad.. geeze
ExoticEngineer
11-13-2007, 11:07 AM
pinupgurl, sweety, I don't think either of those post you wrote about were meant to come across as flaming or being pissy with you. I peeked at both of them.
I know you're having some seriously stressfull issues right now, do you think you might be projecting a little bit onto here? Are you okay?
pinupgurl2k6
11-13-2007, 11:09 AM
pinupgurl, sweety, I don't think either of those post you wrote about were meant to come across as flaming or being pissy with you. I peeked at both of them.
I know you're having some seriously stressfull issues right now, do you think you might be projecting a little bit onto here? Are you okay?
I agree I am freaking maxed, but wow racist that hurts???
Exhasted, oh yes and today I audition at a larger club in an
area I have never worked in so while my daughter recovers
I can still pay all the bills WOOT, I think I am mostly angry
at the racist issue.. I watch people who are racist all the time
towards my friends and my boyfriend. So calling me a racist
is one of the worst things I think you can call someone.
stripperMBA
11-13-2007, 11:31 AM
Maybe we could all agree not to call each other curse words. I believe that when a person uses a curse word in a negative sense torwards someone it is going to far. As for us as dancers none of us are perfect, and in this industry the customer is not always right. This is especially true if you work in a big city club (here in the U.S.A) where we are often treated very badly, as if we are of no importance, and where the amount of well paying customers is always less that the amount of dancers. It almost creates a survival of the fitest enviroment where often the overly nice and least assertive do usually do not survive. But back to the point I think it unneccesary for us to call eachother
[email protected]@$%, H#$%, C#$%^,
[email protected]#$%.
pinupgurl2k6
11-13-2007, 11:33 AM
Maybe we could all agree not to call each other curse words. I believe that when a person uses a curse word in a negative sense torwards someone it is going to far. As for us as dancers none of us are perfect, and in this industry the customer is not always right. This is especially true if you work in a big city club (here in the U.S.A) where we are often treated very badly, as if we are of no importance, and where the amount of well paying customers is always less that the amount of dancers. It almost creates a survival of the fitest enviroment where often the overly nice and least assertive do usually do not survive. But back to the point I think it unneccesary for us to call eachother
[email protected]@$%, H#$%, C#$%^,
[email protected]#$%.
I agree, we don't need to abuse each other, we should support each other.
even if we do not agree we are still intelligent women and should not lower
ourselves to the use of profanity even if it's not in English (blush)
BrunetteGoddess
11-13-2007, 11:37 AM
Pinup, I know what it feels like to be called racist on here. It's not fun. It's just a misunderstanding most of the time, because people misinterpret what you mean.
What matters most is you know you're not a racist.
pinupgurl2k6
11-13-2007, 11:41 AM
Pinup, I know what it feels like to be called racist on here. It's not fun. It's just a misunderstanding most of the time, because people misinterpret what you mean.
What matters most is you know you're not a racist.
So true.. but racism not to hijack this thread is a serious issue in the United States.
I have, had to deal with it first hand and it is not pretty, I have watched my best
girlfriend cry who happens to have just finished Army boot camp with two shin
fractures, she hiked 15 miles, she is just 5'1" a 15lb pack. Just last night my
boyfriend was attacked verbally and I drove home.. I am very over protective
of the people I love and to watch them hurt by racism then to be called a racist
makes me sick to my stomach. I would of rather been decked in the face.
P.s Not to mention my mentor is a bio-mechanical, nuclear engineer who lives in Mumbai
India, I have worked on many projects. I don't buy international calling cards for nothing and that really angers me and if I showed him that thread he would go through
the freaking roof on top of the fact I have worked with many Indians I never thought
saying that computer programming contracts are being outsource to India would make
me a racist. Most Indian families live on 1 dollar usd a month so a contract that would
cost me 2600 to do they can do much cheaper it is a fact of life not a racist remark.
Am I racist because I don't want to live in India? or Iran? where does fact and logic
come into the picture.
BrunetteGoddess
11-13-2007, 11:51 AM
Yeah, I don't understand how saying that was racist either. Maybe people are sore about the truth because outsourcing has directly affected their income in some way? Like I said, the internet is open to misinterpretation, so you have to take accusations with a grain of salt.
Circe
11-13-2007, 12:01 PM
Threadjack, and I'm not talking about anyone in particular. This goes for all of us.
I'm not sure why people need to get up in arms when someone states that what they typed online was racist. They are not calling you a Grand Clan Wizard, just pointing out that what you typed could be construed as racism. You know, making you more aware of your language. Just accept it, be more aware, and move on.
Honestly, on here there are some misinterpretations but most of the time, if several people call you on a racist/sexist/prejudice comment, chances are you actually slipped up and were being prejudiced. Maybe not consciously, but that does not negate racism or sexism, etc.
But you know...getting pissy and raving on about how you are not racist and you have xyz minority friends (which is the worst defence ever, incidentally)...just makes it look like you care more about people agreeing with you than potentially offending people over a very sensitive issue. Which if you're truly aware of these issues, you should empathize/understand people's sensitivities and concerns.
hardkandee
11-13-2007, 12:03 PM
Yeah I notice that too, but seems to me it's been going on for years. Often I feel like every damn thing I say gets taken the wrong way, and it does get tiring, having to constantly fucking explain myself, edit myself, bite my tongue, watch my words, etc. Maybe if people didn't automatically take everything so fucking seriously and negatively, we might not have so many issues.
This is largely why I don't post much these days. I just get SO tired of explaining myself.
Ding, ding, ding.
The drama feeds itself. Everything doesn't have to be taken so seriously all the time. Yeah, it's a forum, there will be heated debates - but that's why we're here. To hear others' ideas and learn - whether we learn to agree or disagree - it's about seeing there are other perspectives.
We are all adults here. Can't handle the heat? Get out of the kitchen. I really do appreciate the community here and don't want to see anyone hurt but if the alternative is censoring ideas and sugar-coated ass kissing... gimme a break.
BrunetteGoddess
11-13-2007, 12:26 PM
I don't think it was suggested that the alternative be 'sugar coating and ass kissing.' I believe it was 'use tact and don't purposefully try to be abusive or abrasive'.
I'll agree with an idea put out there before: I hear somebody a lot better when they're being tactful, and I respect the fact that they took the time to present their side in such a way that it doesn't send people on the defense. Tact is an art form as far as I'm concerned, and even I myself am still trying to learn it.
cinammonkisses
11-13-2007, 12:28 PM
I agree, completely. I've been here since '04, and I remember when it used to be a really encouraging community. I considered this forum to be my "stripper web family." But it seems like in the past year or so, the general tone of the board is very catty and immature. It seems like some of the ladies here are just looking to get into a piss-match with each other.
I don't know. It kind of bums me out to see the change.
Right on! I've been a member on this board for a little over 5 1/2yrs. I agree that over the past year or so this board has been filled with alot of negative activity. What was once a site filled with lots of helpful advice, now is filled with argumentive bullshit. Shit, I already try my hardest to ignore the girls at work who bring drama.
Ladies, lets put an end to the endless/mindless ranting on this site. Some of you remind me of those girls @ work who I just cant' stand to be around. You know the type..as soon as they walk in the back you do a quick touch up of makeup and you're right back out on the floor before they can even attempt to say two words to you...:-X
I remember a time when you needed help or information about a club/location you were given helpful and honest information. Now, it seems like when you hit that "goldmine" it's best to just keep it amongst a tight-knit group. What happened to sharing? What happened to "great minds think alike" ?
MinahSky
11-13-2007, 01:43 PM
I just came back and some people that I was here before are looking at me like I am new. You are certainly right, but it's also attitudes like that fucking up the industry as a whole...
britt244
11-13-2007, 01:45 PM
What I've noticed is that if a given post is open to interpretation, usually the most negative possible interpretation is chosen. :(
i also think that it depends who says it, too. if i say something, and someone who ive already had a problem with reads it, they will think the worst. and vice versa. i know that there is one person recently, and everything i read from this person im like "come on.. seriously?" i dont agree with her, but the more posts i disagree with the worse it gets when it might have been smaller, you know?
but seriously.. its the internet. come on! i know there have been people i dont like and then i end up being close with them, or meeting them, and its totally different. for example, in the tattoogoddess thread, miss luscious said something like she hoped she never worked with any cunts like us (the girls who were being bitchy in that thread). since that , though, ive met her and shes SUPER nice. same with tart.. i just posted in another thread that when i first joined, she called me a troll. and i still talk to her now even though shes not on here anymore!
i think a lot of things are open to interpretation and its really hard when you cant tell tone of voice, etc, like has been said.
MinahSky
11-13-2007, 01:46 PM
I just came back and some people that I was here before are looking at me like I am new. I have ALWAYS spoken the way I do now, so it's nothing new. But if you weren't here before and don't take the time to read my past posts, you think I am...whatever.
Velvet, you are certainly right, but it's also attitudes like that fucking up the industry as a whole...
britt244
11-13-2007, 01:47 PM
Velvet, you are certainly right, but it's also attitudes like that fucking up the industry as a whole...
i dont think its just this industry. i think its people in general.
BrunetteGoddess
11-13-2007, 01:51 PM
Yep. This isn't specific to any one aspect here, it could be applied to life in general.
stripperMBA
11-13-2007, 01:57 PM
i dont think its just this industry. i think its people in general.
:yes: :yes: :yes:
Hey we take a lot of
[email protected]$ at work. Can we just agree to not curse each other out??:banghead:
::runs screaming from thread::
BrunetteGoddess
11-13-2007, 02:00 PM
*Chases MBA*
Come baaaaack! :P
stripperMBA
11-13-2007, 02:01 PM
i dont think its just this industry. i think its people in general.
Britt would you mind if I put this in my siggy??
britt244
11-13-2007, 02:02 PM
^ of course i dont mind :P
stripperMBA
11-13-2007, 02:11 PM
Thanks britt
Sauske
11-13-2007, 02:15 PM
nothing but love here..... :) xoxo.
MinahSky
11-13-2007, 02:16 PM
What I meant by that was the nasty attitudes that drive men to other sources of entertainment that dancers used to fill.
I do agree that they have the nasty attitudes before they enter the club, though. That is why I have tried to change in my every day life before I go back to dancing...
After reading the responses here, I think that as was said above, this board was created to be a support group for our industry.
Everyone seemed to be more helpful in the prior years. Over the past year or so the mood has changed to the like of someone walking through the hood at night. Many posters have the watch your back attitude, always overly suspicious of trolls, and many jump to a negative conclusion about someone, instead of first giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Just remember why we all are here. To gain information and insight on our industry. Not to one up each other.
Alaska
11-13-2007, 06:01 PM
I don't think I have ever posted on a board that didn't harp after the good old days of yore.
As one of the original members of the Internet Nirvana Fan Club circa 1999, ITA.8) Altho--it WAS better back then!
I just wanted to say how cute (and Irish?) ....you said yore!!!
Eh some ppl like drama. People who don't care for it just ignore the crap and read and respond to the legit ppl. Thas all.
Often I feel like every damn thing I say gets taken the wrong way, and it does get tiring, having to constantly fucking explain myself, edit myself, bite my tongue, watch my words, etc. Maybe if people didn't automatically take everything so fucking seriously and negatively, we might not have so many issues.
This is largely why I don't post much these days. I just get SO tired of explaining myself.
I shouldn't even be posting right now, but I've been checking up on this thread, and I couldn't help but respond. This is A BIG reason why I am taking a SW break right now.
francescadubois
11-14-2007, 11:02 AM
I think I feel most sorry for some of the newbies that have come on here lately. If they come on and ask a question, a lot of times they get crucified for not doing a search first, but then it's messed up if they dig up an old thread. It's like they can't win. If I'd had that experience when I came on, I'd have logged right the hell back off and not looked back.
Alaska
11-14-2007, 11:58 AM
^ yup, for realz. seriously noticed that too.
LuckiCharm
11-14-2007, 12:05 PM
I think I feel most sorry for some of the newbies that have come on here lately. If they come on and ask a question, a lot of times they get crucified for not doing a search first, but then it's messed up if they dig up an old thread. It's like they can't win. If I'd had that experience when I came on, I'd have logged right the hell back off and not looked back.
Yeah I kinda feel bad too...I might be a little guilty actually, I'll admit. I'm not gonna yell at newbies anymore though...I promise!!!!
But really, I got yelled at too when I was a newbie. It's kind of like the weird SW initiation or something, lol.
ExoticEngineer
11-14-2007, 12:24 PM
^I second that! Geez! When I first came to SW, someone had a thread going about how you treat a dancer, and I made a comment like "treat her like you would want your sister other close relative treated, with respect and generosity" Something like that....well holy crap did I get jumped on!
"You think I'm getting dances frm my sister? I should act like the girl dancing is my sister!? That's sick! Wtf?"
I mean really! lol. I laughed about it, because, hey lame ass...adjust your perceptions. But it's true, newbies go through a little "testing" before people stop picking apart their posts. Be it because of so many trolls, or guys pretending to be girls or jealous catty women who come on here, whatever...it happens.
MinahSky
11-14-2007, 06:45 PM
I just got jumped on in a thread for no reason. I was talking about MYSELF, no one else and people dragged (I mean kicking and screaming) out somehow that I was talking shit about them when I didn't mention anyone but myself and didn't say anything negative in any way. On top of that, people said the very shit about me that they imagined I said about them and that was ok! That never would have happened 2 years ago. The only reason I am here now is to get used to the Stripper Bullshit before I actually encounter it in the club...
francescadubois
11-14-2007, 06:58 PM
Hey, babe, join the club. I just got told I wasn't smart.
I have no idea what's happening. I have been here almost 2 years and have NEVER had beef with ANYONE EVER. Disagreements, yes, but ultimately I still like everyone on here.
WTF?
AlexxaHex
11-14-2007, 06:59 PM
So...what was the point of this thread? To bitch about other threads? Is there anything we can do to prevent/solve the problem or are we just gonna keep bitching?