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DylanAngel
11-23-2007, 09:57 AM
I think it comes with, not only age, but length of the relationship as well. I'm not nearly as jealous as I was, and I realize now that it's my own insecurity that makes me that way; not anything he's doing.

He's not the SC type because he used to work in them, so he knows that this is just a job for the girls. So, if his friends are going and it's a social thing, I say go ahead and I do my own thing that night.

That said, we do have an agreement that he receives no lapdances. It's one thing to watch girls on stage and tip them out of appreciation for their beauty, sexiness or even just for their jobs and it's another thing to get more intimate. I see lapdances as a sexual thing for men and a job for the girls.

Stopping him from watching on stage is like saying you can't read Playboy or you can't watch porn. But I wouldn't put up with girls hanging on him in a regular bar and I wouldn't put up with him letting another girl grind his junk at a SC.

That's just my dealbreaker and I'm lucky that I have a man who has no interest in it so it's not even an issue.

Sounds like you have a good relationship Lola and I don't think your fears are out of the norm; you just need to be more secure in your relationship and in yourself.

Susan Wayward
11-23-2007, 10:32 AM
i dont think it's that. for me, i can't see your side of things. not in a million years. there is nothing in me that could understand being in an open relationship. so i guess i would assume it's the same way, that you can't understand why someone would want to be in a "normal" relationship. or maybe not that you couldn't understand it, but your views would be skewed a bit.

Ahhh, I see. You have a hard time understanding others and cannot or are unwilling to see the reasoning behind actions that you wouldn't take. No wonder you get so combative at times! Just remember that this doesn't mean others can't empathize with you, or with other people in different circumstances. Not everyone judges those who make choices different from our own.

britt244
11-23-2007, 12:06 PM
Ahhh, I see. You have a hard time understanding others and cannot or are unwilling to see the reasoning behind actions that you wouldn't take. No wonder you get so combative at times! Just remember that this doesn't mean others can't empathize with you, or with other people in different circumstances. Not everyone judges those who make choices different from our own.

how was that judging her? i was saying i don't understand it. that isn't being unwilling, nor is it judgemental. i didn't say anything negative about it, just that i don't really understand how someone could be in an open relationship. not to mention that i wasn't being general, i was talking about that specifically. there are plenty of times when i can put myself in other people's shoes even if it isn't something i would do myself.

eta: isn't me not understanding that the same as some girls not understanding jealousy in this case?

Dottie Rebel
11-23-2007, 01:59 PM
Thanks, Susan. I spent many years being a jealous, insecure partner who would raise HELL like you've never seen if I got cheated on. My partner and I have cheated on each other in the past, before our revelation. And it was devastating. If D "cheated" on me now it would probably still be very hurtful.

I'm not sure how it came about that I do not understand jealousy. I understand it well. Along with explosive rage, greed, manipulation, and a host of other destructive things I try to eliminate from my life.

ExoticEngineer
11-23-2007, 02:19 PM
Thanks, Susan. I spent many years being a jealous, insecure partner who would raise HELL like you've never seen if I got cheated on. My partner and I have cheated on each other in the past, before our revelation. And it was devastating. If D "cheated" on me now it would probably still be very hurtful.

I'm not sure how it came about that I do not understand jealousy. I understand it well. Along with explosive rage, greed, manipulation, and a host of other destructive things I try to eliminate from my life.

Agreed. Being in an open relationship does not eliminate jealousy or insecurity. It's still there, just in different ways. If the hubby cheated on me I would be heartbroken. But it would be the lie that broke my heart. Not the sex.

Sex feels good. It's lies that hurt.

And like you Dottie, I have been in "normal" relationships as well, and I do understand the dynamics of that type of relationship. That's why I said, the point isn't him going to a topless bar, the point is him doing something she is not comfortable with and how they handle that situation together. It could be anything.

In fact, having been in BOTH types of relationships, I think I understand the jealousy issue even more now than I did before.

Andygirl
11-23-2007, 02:23 PM
This is a forum where it seems like MOST are very sexually open, whether that's in an open marriage or just in general. It's funny to me that some are taking offense because of a few who can't get their heads around that lifestyle. If anything, I think the opinions in this thread make it sound like you all think a girl must be a prude, jealous, or insecure if she doesn't want her man messing around in strip clubs.

I guess it depends on what side of the fence you are on. We could all probably stand to be a little more openminded towards each other.

Dottie Rebel
11-23-2007, 02:39 PM
Andy, this is not a matter of lifestyle. The reason I am a little offended is because it was made into a matter of lifestyle.

This isn't about MY relationship or anyone's "lifestyle". The only reason I entered this conversation was to point out something I saw as inconstitent and hypocritical and I was hoping someone could explain it to me, which no one has. That is the ONLY issue I raised here: the double standard that many women seem to follow. I never said that everyone shuld be in an open relationship. I don't give a flying fuck what kind of relationship others are in, to be perfectly frank.

stellaforstars
11-23-2007, 02:44 PM
Quick! Someone moon this thread!

I love you ladies.

Dottie Rebel
11-23-2007, 02:48 PM
^^I wasn't aware that drama was starting. (?)

britt244
11-23-2007, 02:50 PM
Andy, this is not a matter of lifestyle. The reason I am a little offended is because it was made into a matter of lifestyle.

This isn't about MY relationship or anyone's "lifestyle". The only reason I entered this conversation was to point out something I saw as inconstitent and hypocritical and I was hoping someone could explain it to me, which no one has. That is the ONLY issue I raised here: the double standard that many women seem to follow. I never said that everyone shuld be in an open relationship. I don't give a flying fuck what kind of relationship others are in, to be perfectly frank.

but you were the first who brought up the fact that people might not even care what you had to say because youre in an open relationship. and i'm not even agreeing with you that no one cares because of that. you were defensive before anyone else even mentioned it.

stellaforstars
11-23-2007, 02:52 PM
I wouldn't call it drama, per se.

Just a very heated discussion. I think drama starts when people start being catty.

However, I'm sure none of us wants the discussion to escalate into drama. And what better to bring smiles to the faces of everyone than a little SW ass?

ExoticEngineer
11-23-2007, 02:53 PM
No, so far it's a decent thread...but it has drama potential. ;)

*keeping my pants on for now*

Dottie, I think no one can explain it because there is no explanation for it. Some thing are based out of fear or uncertainty and therefore can't be explained logically. And that's okay. I'm not saying no one has the right to feel that way. But I do get where you're coming from Dottie, I've just given up on trying to relate it to others. (not other in this thread)









*the previous disclaimers in this post were made in an effort to keep this thread calm and un-flamish. I have eaten too much and am not in the mood to moon anyone. ;)

zxcire
11-23-2007, 02:55 PM
Wait, what's the question? I got myself all confused.

stellaforstars
11-23-2007, 02:58 PM
Dottie, I think no one can explain it because there is no explanation for it. Some thing are based out of fear or uncertainty and therefore can't be explained logically. And that's okay.

Once again, EE, you've hit it on the nose.

I think we all have irrational feelings now and then. I know I do. It's how we deal with those feelings that matters--jealousy is natural, but not a reason to lash out on someone you love, as long as they're not truly doing anything wrong.

Dottie Rebel
11-23-2007, 03:04 PM
but you were the first who brought up the fact that people might not even care what you had to say because youre in an open relationship.

You mistook my purpose for mentioning that. I was not defensive. I just knew that the "but you don't understand because your relationship is so incredibly abnormal" was inevitable because it happens every time I have something to say on the matter. It's just tiresome and insulting.

Andygirl
11-23-2007, 03:04 PM
Andy, this is not a matter of lifestyle. The reason I am a little offended is because it was made into a matter of lifestyle.

This isn't about MY relationship or anyone's "lifestyle". The only reason I entered this conversation was to point out something I saw as inconstitent and hypocritical and I was hoping someone could explain it to me, which no one has. That is the ONLY issue I raised here: the double standard that many women seem to follow. I never said that everyone shuld be in an open relationship. I don't give a flying fuck what kind of relationship others are in, to be perfectly frank.

I think a few people addressed your question. I'll repeat what I said before. Someone else's relationship is not my problem, i.e. random strip club guy. It's btw him and his wife. We are just entertainers, and the vast majority of us do not get at all turned on by dancing for guys. But almost all guys get a hard on while receiving a dance.

Hypocritical would be making a deal that your husband isn't going to go to clubs and get dances and then going out yourself and getting a dance. That would be a double standard.

And you are one of many on here who has an open relationship. Anytime anything to do with sex comes up we hear all about it. You can't have it both ways. Either talk about the relationship and deal with people having differing opinions, or keep it to yourself so that you can't be offended. I'm fine with hearing about it and I couldn't care less what other people do in their bedrooms. But I don't appreciate being made to feel like a prude because of the boundaries in my relationship. (Not that you personally have done it, but in an overall sense.)

britt244
11-23-2007, 03:07 PM
You mistook my purpose for mentioning that. I was not defensive. I just knew that the "but you don't understand because your relationship is abnormal" was inevitable because it happens every time I have something to say on the matter. It's just tiresome and insulting.
well just for the record, the only reason i addressed it was to explain why someone might feel that way, myself included. but i didnt bring it up to be insulting or anything, just explaining myself.


Hypocritical would be making a deal that your husband isn't going to go to clubs and get dances and then going out yourself and getting a dance. That would be a double standard.
i agree 100%. its a diff situation when its work vs pleasure.

VenusGoddess
11-23-2007, 03:26 PM
I didn't read all the threads, but he has less chance of having problems at a Strip Club than at the local dance club where the girls there whore themselves out for free and dry hump anything that moves.

At least at the club, it stays at the club and that's it.

I think the issue diminishes with age. When I was in my 20's I was NOT happy about my guy going to the club. Now, I could care less. "Go, have fun, better remember that no matter how late youare out, you are still getting up with the kids in the morning!" haahaa

Susan Wayward
11-23-2007, 03:48 PM
I hear the "It's different when it's work, not pleasure" argument, but here is how I see it; You are selling a product that you are not comfortable with your SO consuming. To me, that indicates that deep down, you yourself have some discomfort with what you are doing. Dirty girls and extras and PLs who go to the club weekly aside (one hopes that there's enough trust in a relationship to know one's partner isn't susceptible to or engaging in this unless both partners are cool with it), it just seems like a personal ethical conflict to perform a service that you don't want the guy you're dating to consume. I would think it would make it a lot more difficult to strip while in a relationship if you have this kind of emotional conflict.

Now I understand this; we're humans and not rational with our emotions. But that's why I think it's a double standard. To me it would be like being a massage therapist and not allowing my SO to get massages (again, assuming the other massage therapists are not offering happy endings. And if they were, suspecting he would accept them).

But again, it's fine to feel that way -- I have contradictory feelings about the job, too. I'm just trying to explain my view so it's a little clearer. For the record, I'm in a monogamous relationship.

Andygirl
11-23-2007, 04:04 PM
I hear the "It's different when it's work, not pleasure" argument, but here is how I see it; You are selling a product that you are not comfortable with your SO consuming. To me, that indicates that deep down, you yourself have some discomfort with what you are doing.

That's just it. I would be 100% more comfortable with the idea if I knew he was going to get dances from a dancer such as myself, who gives very limited contact and does not grind as if trying to remove the top layer of cloth off of his pants. If he was buying my product, no problem, but there's no guarantee that the girl he'd pick wouldn't be offering more bang for the buck.

Here's a little story...the first time my husband came in to see me at my old club I invited him to stay for a little while to check it out. He sat and had a couple of beers, but said no to several girls who asked him for dances. I even told him, "Go ahead and get a dance, I will not be mad," but he was too shy to ask. So I bought him a dance from a beautiful girl, the best one there besides myself. Beforehand she asked me if there was anything I didn't want her to do. All I said was, "Don't grind him much, I don't want him getting the wrong idea about what I do here." But I told her I wanted him to have fun. She agreed, did the dance, and that was that.

Months later we were talking about my club and the dance that he had gotten came up. I told him what the girl had asked me and told him that I had said for her to take it easy on him. Guess what? Not only did she grind, but she grinded the HELL out of him. It made him very uncomfortable and didn't want to tell me about it because he knew I'd be pissed at the girl.

It wasn't the dance that made me mad, after all, I bought it and encouraged him to enjoy himself. What did bother me was the fact that she did the exact opposite of what I asked her to do. It's shit like that that makes dancers wary of their guy spending time in strip clubs. We know we have limits, but we also know that for every clean dancer there are 20 who will do anything and everything for $20---whether the guy asks them to or not.

Fortunately I don't have to worry about any of this because like I said, my husband hasn't ever been the strip club type. He's way too shy and that sort of thing really does make him uncomfortable.

Andygirl
11-23-2007, 04:12 PM
Another argument against it is if the guy is your husband or someone you share finances with. I know I'm not the only one who isn't comfortable with the idea of her husband going out and spending a proper amount of money (from a stripper standpoint) in the club when he could be spending it on many other things needed in our partnership. It's a waste of cash, and I feel that he'd be crazy to spend money on some sub-par imitation when he has the real deal at home.

zxcire
11-23-2007, 04:16 PM
Fortunately I don't have to worry about any of this because like I said, my husband hasn't ever been the strip club type. He's way too shy and that sort of thing really does make him uncomfortable.

This is my situation too. I have gone to two strip clubs with my husband !for my birthday! and he spent a lot of money tipping the girls and buying me dances. I bought him a dance and he enjoyed it, enjoyed the girls' company, etc. It was not a hard-grinding place so he liked it more than he would have a higher contact place.

I have told him what goes on at my club *one of the nicer ones in the area* and he's just all mind-boggled. It doesn't cross this man's mind the things that cross a lot of other mens' minds. He just doesn't feel comfortable with the setup and the culture of strip clubs. He told me he would be extremely freaked out if a chick just started grinding in his lap or playing with his cock over his pants/whatever/high contact lap dance/etc.

Fine for him. Fine for me. I have a girlfriend who goes with me instead, and so my reply earlier in this thread was all hypothetical, and based off my different experiences with jealousy, not necessarily stemming from a stripclub POV.

ExoticEngineer
11-23-2007, 04:22 PM
Susan and Andy, you two make great points.

The jealousy factor is obviously a matter or trust. Would I send my husband into a room full of naked women, horny and dying to succumb to his every wish and tell him not to touch them? Yep. Because I TRUST him. Open relationship or not. If you do not trust your mate, you can't get past the jealousy.

So, it could a strip club and you could be worried that some girl was going to rub hrself all over him, or it could be a regular bar and worry some girl would be drunk and offer herself up to him, or shit, it could be the library and he runs into some chick into the "hot for teacher" thing. It doesn't matter. It could happen anywhere. But if you don't trust him, you'll never be comfortable with him going someplace like that.

And trust does not = open relationship. And trust does not = enjoying woman on top of your man. But it does mean that you can trust him to go and not do something that would upset you later on.
Because the OP's question was directly related to going to a strip club, it's hard to disect it and break it down into a trust or not trust, sort of thing. Especially us being strippers, it's a very awkward thing.

We go to work with money on our minds. Men come to our bar to get aroused and excited. You CAN be comfortable selling "aroused and excited" and still be uncomfortable with your SO purchasing it. It's a mind bender though. Do you ever feel guilty selling "aroused and excited" to a guy who has said "I told my wife I wouldn't get dances, she'd be jealous." ?? Regardless of wether you dance dirty or not, you're still helping him do something you would hate for you SO to do. Right? So what does that make you? A hypocrite? *(GAH! Disclaimer. I am NOT calling anyone here a hypocrite, this is mere pondering)*

Regardless of wether I were in an open relationship or not, I would strive to remove jealousy from my emotions. It's not healthy and IMO it screams "I don't trust you". Again....that's my opinion regarding myself.

zxcire
11-23-2007, 04:34 PM
Regardless of wether I were in an open relationship or not, I would strive to remove jealousy from my emotions. It's not healthy and IMO it screams "I don't trust you". Again....that's my opinion regarding myself.

There was a point in my relationship with my husband that my jealousy and insecurity almost, ALMOST, caused us to break up. It was a horrible, ugly, disgusting time.

You're absolutely right. Jealousy is not healthy and it is not a sign of a good self-image or relationship.

I look back on the way I used to act and can't believe that was me, to be honest. I was such a crazy jealous female. Ugh.

Andygirl
11-23-2007, 04:39 PM
Do you ever feel guilty selling "aroused and excited" to a guy who has said "I told my wife I wouldn't get dances, she'd be jealous." ??

To be perfectly honest, I've never had a guy say that and then continue to try to hustle him. If he's throwing that out as an excuse, I'll usually make a joke about it and grab one of his friends.

If you want to characterize what I'm saying as jealousy, you are certainly entitled to do that, but only I know my internal feelings and the inner workings of my relationship. Is not wanting to have your husband's dick touched by another woman jealousy? If so, then I guess 99.5% of married people are jealous by that definition.

If my husband wanted to go to the SC, he'd go. I wouldn't stand in his way. And obviously I do trust him or I wouldn't have married him. But we aren't in an open relationship, we are monogamous. Not wanting him to be with another woman isn't jealousy on my part, it is one of the vows we made when we got married.

This is the sort of impasse that people who are monogamous come to with people who are in open relationships. You characterize us as jealous and insecure and we characterize you as having "anything goes" sexual relationships with your SO's. IMO, it would be nicer if we could just live and let live when it comes to this issue. It is evident that we aren't going to see eye-to-eye about it. There is nothing wrong with looking at it the way you do, and there isn't anything wrong with looking at it the way I, and others do.

ExoticEngineer
11-23-2007, 04:46 PM
No no no, Andy I was not saying that not wanting his dick touched by another woman = jealousy. Not saying that at all, and I thought I had made that clear, but I could be wrong.

In fact I was trying to point out, open relationship or not, you can still have those feelings and trust issues. Period.

It's funny, you're so right about being characterized. Because I do NOT have an anything goes relationship. But I get the impression often people think that's how it is.

Dottie Rebel
11-24-2007, 02:10 PM
I thought you were clear, EE. Again, for me, jealousy was not the issue. I don't care or judge what kinds of limits people put on their relationship. I certainly don't want anyone judging mine. That wasn't why I got interested in this thread.

If I offended anyone I certainly didn't mean to. I had a question because I was genuinely curious--that's it. This sort of stuff interests me.

As for the two points you brought up just before your last post, Andy, I couldn't agree with you more.

That other stripper--whew! I've got to say that as far as I trust my husband, I KNOW that I can't trust other women. And with my husband being a musician it's ten times worse. Band whores are the bane of my existence. Not because I'm jealous, per se, but because they're so boring and transparent and their game is so bad it's laughable. I do little experiments at every one of our shows where I stand with him, spot a chick or maybe a group who is just dying to swoop in, and then I'll wander off and stand where I can see what's going on. Inevitably, they come trotting right over and fawn all over him. It used to unfuriate me. Not because I was worried about what might happen or begrudged him a little innocent flirting. It just incensed me that women would watch me with my husband, knowing our relationship, and wait for me to walk away for two seconds so they could dive in on him like buzzards. Now I do this whole little routine just for sport--to amuse myself at boring shows. Then I tease him about it later.

And the money issue--oh, hell no. I would NOT be happy to know that my money was going straight out of my garter and into someone else's. That I would NOT be very cool with. If he liked strip clubs I guess we'd have to come to some sort of agreement. Thankfully, he hates them. Like B, they make him incredibly uncomfortable.

Casey4Now
11-24-2007, 05:50 PM
LR I totally know where you are comming from. I WAS NOT that person, but did turn into it. I was working one night and the chef called in sick..to make a long story short I call my husband (a chef) to cover for the night and make a few extra $$.

One of the other dancers kept going into the kitchen (topless which he does NOT allow in the kitchen) and flirting with him. I was beside my self. I have never felt jelous in all my life and had never had the experience of being cheated on, so the feelings really came out of nowhere and surprised me.

This girl would NOT quit. She eventually became a stalker calling the club every night to see if he was filling in. Needless to say it was not him, but her inability to STOP which lead to alot of friction in our relationship. It has been four years and I will still NOT allow him in that club.

Andygirl
11-27-2007, 11:03 AM
That other stripper--whew!

You can probably guess who it was. It was your best buddy, cue sarcasm.........;D

Dottie Rebel
11-27-2007, 03:38 PM
Was it K? Now I'm curious.

krchab99
11-27-2007, 05:20 PM
I think we have an advantage as strippers cause when your guy goes to the club your not far from his mind he can't help but think of you in there. :) Atleast thats been the case with me.

MinahSky
11-27-2007, 05:40 PM
Go out and do something else that night with your friends. It will keep your mind off of what is going on for a little bit...

In all honesty, this is a great chance to see where your relationship really is and what kind of man your dude is.

sun child
11-27-2007, 06:45 PM
I'd rather my SO not ever go to strip clubs without me. I'm a hypocrite. Good thing I'm not in a relationship anymore. >:(

Andygirl
11-28-2007, 05:23 AM
Was it K? Now I'm curious.

I'm trying to think of who K is, lol. No, it was L.:)

NinaDaisy
11-28-2007, 05:46 AM
I've got to say that as far as I trust my husband, I KNOW that I can't trust other women. And with my husband being a musician it's ten times worse. Band whores are the bane of my existence. Not because I'm jealous, per se, but because they're so boring and transparent and their game is so bad it's laughable.

Not to derail the thread, but used to think that too and I got dumped by my musician boyfriend of six years for the nastiest, dumbest band slut evah. I knew she'd been drooling all over him for two years (first time I met her she tried to kiss him in front of me!) but I trusted him. Big mistake.

It goes both ways. No man can be stolen unless he lets himself be though.

As for the OP, it sounds like he's having pretty innocent fun. But keep your eyes open regardless...

Dottie Rebel
11-28-2007, 10:08 AM
I'm trying to think of who K is, lol. No, it was L.:)

OH! ROFL. I never would have guessed her because you said, "The best girl there other than myself". I mean, she's got a pretty face, if that's all it takes.