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Kaiyla
11-21-2007, 09:32 PM
Ummm...no. The DOG's owner has to pay for a seat the dog isnt even allowed to use while the child who screams and causes a disturbance is allowed to fly free?? Sorry....nothing against kids(and YOU are really the one who takes such personal offense at anything kid related...god FORBID anyone NOT love everything related to children ever since you got sperminated...kids can be great and they can also be a HUGE pain in the ass..esp when they arent YOURS and you are forced to deal with them anyway)

And I'd not want my dog, cat or any other pet in cargo hold OR stuffed under a seat....they ARE my children. Esp when the human children get to fly free and DONT have to be stuffed under a seat...but rather are free to scream yell and kick the back of the persons chair in front of them.

If children get to fly free...so should pets. Sorry....but thats only fair. I've seen many a pet in the cabin and never had one cause a disturbance. Seen MANY children do though..while most parents sit there and do nothing because..well..its their angel and they dont want to punish them. And they know damn well theres nothing anyone can do...what will you do? Throw them off the plane? NO of course not...so Junior screams bloody murder for 5 hours. Fun.

And I dont blame parents for wanting to bring a juice cup...but rules are rules. Stupid ot not.If I'm not allowed...neither are you just because you have a kid. They have juice on the plane..get it there. Dont hold up the security line for 20 minutes arguing why YOU shold be exempt because you dont want your kid drinking the planes apple juice(which is fucking free anyway so shut up and empty the damn sippy cup and board the plane)

:thanx:

rockie
11-21-2007, 09:41 PM
Kaiyla: If I were you I'd volunteer for the emergency exit rows every time. Nobody can sit in that row under 15 years of age. There is also a large difference between childishness and "children gone wild!".

Hatshepsut
11-21-2007, 10:07 PM
I've had good luck with the kids on planes. I've observed a few of them, and the common factor seemed to be the "Big bag of stuff," as well as keeping on top of the kid's status. Kids require massive amounts of work and maintenance, and planes make this apply doubly so.

High_Heel_Lover
11-21-2007, 10:09 PM
Comparing a human life to an animal is absolutely the best thing you can do because you walk on all 4's right/

We have to agree to disagree an diff you don't like having a child who will scream ,like one day you did then too bad, get a freaking plane of your own write to a the airlines and complain.


Do you people also complain about other shit like odor? noise form a person's mouth or other things like a person who chews too loud for your little innocent ears?

Did you not ever once travel as kids?

Yekhefah
11-21-2007, 10:15 PM
^^^ I travelled as a kid and I knew my mama would whip my tail if I acted up. I don't think all children are the problem, it's the children who are running amok and receiving no discipline. Babies are one thing; they cry and there's not really anything you can do about it. But by the time they're old enough to be kicking seats and bothering people, they're old enough to know better or at least to be told to knock it off. The problem isn't kids, it's bad parents.

AlexxaHex
11-21-2007, 10:34 PM
Cam - I think dogs should be able to fly for free also, but some people are allergic to them (myself included) so no, they should not be all up in everyone's business. You can't know which dog is going to be sleeping the whole time or having dander all over the place or which one will be yapping the whole time. Dogs do not equal children. I don't think they should be crammed under a seat but they should not ride amongst the rest of the passengers either. So now we need a "pet zone" and a "child zone". How about an "old people with stinky farts zone" and a "snoring person" zone for sleeping flights.
I too thought my cats were my "babies" when I was childless but when you have kids you see there is a world of difference. I am completely disgusted that someone would suggest stuffing a baby or kid under a seat. I don't think I would feel differently if I never got "sperminated". ::)
I think children should be able to have their own juice, their own formula, breast milk, medicine, whatever on planes. I'd like to see strippers not have their lip gloss thrown out on each flight too if that makes ya feel better. The rule is a stupid one and no one should have to follow it.

cameron_keys
11-21-2007, 10:36 PM
Comparing a human life to an animal is absolutely the best thing you can do because you walk on all 4's right/



NO it's perfectly comperable. Many of us see our animals as our children. And just because something is human does not automatically make it more deserving OR more well behaved. So to say "Its just A FUCKING DOG" as if it doesn tmatter or have any feelings or needs or anythinglike that is insane and completely irrational and insensitive.

Yes...I would and DO complain about other things. Someone hosing themselves down with perfume on a closed plane cabin? You bet I'm going to speak up. Two drunk assholes yelling and screaming? Yep..shut the fuck up.

My point is ...if kids are free because they are small...pets should be free too. Not fair. Pets have a MUCH less chance of causing a disturbance because they are crated.


Sorry some of you dont like the idea that people have issues with kids being brats(and more to the point parents LETTING their kids be brats) when we are all trapped together at 30,000 feet and paid hundreds for the priviledge of hearing your baby angel scream Mommmmmmmmmmmy......1000000000000 times. IT"S ANNOYING>

If I had a private plane...I'd take it believe me to avoid other people annoying kids(because of their bad parenting)....smelly people, guys who try to pick you up mid air...all the crap I hate about flying.

I'm SURE none of you EVER have kids that act up.....uh huh.


This is why I adore my friends who have a 6 month old. They will be the FIRST to say that babies and kids can be bratty annoying little a-holes and will do everything in their power to stop the baby when she gets in one of her moods.

I get that kids can be brats. I GET IT. If the parent is trying to fix the problem...ok..at least you are trying. If you are sitting there calmly reading Cosmo while your kid kicks the back of my chair singing barney songs at the top of his lungs...you're gettin' an earful.


And ANYONE who dares say its JUST A FUCKING DOG...or cat, or bird or rat or whatever....go straight to hell. Seriously...swan dive right into the River Styx you unfeeling piece of crap.Just because you have a child doesnt mean pets are now worthless and deserve nothing. It is not JUST A FUCKING DOG. ITs MY FUCKING DOG.Or its My FUCKING CAT...or whatever. Its JUST A FUCKING BABY.....makes just as much sense.

My "fucking" dog saved my life.....twice. Bet your infant didnt do that.



I love kids..I truly do. I hate parents who get an overinflated sense of entitlement and think kids can do no wrong and should never be complained about.

And when animals are brought into it...trying to say that animals arent inportant because its JUST a dog....I dont want to be associated with anyone who thinks that way.


This thread should be closed. The entitlemoos are at it again and it's getting ugly.

cameron_keys
11-21-2007, 10:41 PM
Cam - I think dogs should be able to fly for free also, but some people are allergic to them (myself included) so no, they should not be all up in everyone's business. You can't know which dog is going to be sleeping the whole time or having dander all over the place or which one will be yapping the whole time. Dogs do not equal children. I don't think they should be crammed under a seat but they should not ride amongst the rest of the passengers either. So now we need a "pet zone" and a "child zone". How about an "old people with stinky farts zone" and a "snoring person" zone for sleeping flights.
I too thought my cats were my "babies" when I was childless but when you have kids you see there is a world of difference. I am completely disgusted that someone would suggest stuffing a baby or kid under a seat. I don't think I would feel differently if I never got "sperminated". ::)
I think children should be able to have their own juice, their own formula, breast milk, medicine, whatever on planes. I'd like to see strippers not have their lip gloss thrown out on each flight too if that makes ya feel better. The rule is a stupid one and no one should have to follow it.

I dont think anyone seriously suggested stuffing a child under a seat..that was irony.

And a lot of things can be allergies. I'm allowed to wear my perfume..lots of people are allergic to that.
Animals can die in cargo holds. I would never put my baby in danger like that. Yes....maybe people with pets/children./etc SHOULD be put in certain sections where the problem wouldnt be as bad. Pets in the front 2 rows, kids in the last 2 rows, whatever....

I agree that the liquid rule is stupid too. But it doesnt NOT apply becuase you have kids. They have juice on the plane. I believe you are allowed to bring formula/breast milk.meds anyway....stuff they do NEED and cant be replaced on the plane.

What irritates me is when someone insists THEIR kid has to have Blah blah brand and doesnt like any other so they shoudl be allowed to bring their own. Well I like differant juices too, but i drink whats on the plane to stay hydrated. Life sucks kids..plane travel doubly so...learn it early.

AlexxaHex
11-21-2007, 10:49 PM
So this thread should be closed because you disagree? I'm deflecting all this rage and shit back at ya and leaving this thread. It can get closed if you want to stay here and argue with everybody else.

cameron_keys
11-21-2007, 10:57 PM
So this thread should be closed because you disagree? I'm deflecting all this rage and shit back at ya and leaving this thread. It can get closed if you want to stay here and argue with everybody else.

NO ..I fear it could turn into something truly ugly whether we two stay or not...thats why I requested it closed.

I never think a thread should close for disagreements...tehy would all close then.


But when it comes down to pure insults...nothing good can come of it

AlexxaHex
11-21-2007, 11:01 PM
I haven't insulted anybody. In fact it was you who said I should go to Hell.

cameron_keys
11-21-2007, 11:07 PM
I haven't insulted anybody. In fact it was you who said I should go to Hell.

It was several who insulted...and my "go to hell" was directed to your quote of "It's a FUCKING DOG.". Which i took extreme offense to.

VenusGoddess
11-21-2007, 11:08 PM
My point is ...if kids are free because they are small...pets should be free too. Not fair. Pets have a MUCH less chance of causing a disturbance because they are crated.


Sorry some of you dont like the idea that people have issues with kids being brats(and more to the point parents LETTING their kids be brats) when we are all trapped together at 30,000 feet and paid hundreds for the priviledge of hearing your baby angel scream Mommmmmmmmmmmy......1000000000000 times. IT"S ANNOYING>

If I had a private plane...I'd take it believe me to avoid other people annoying kids(because of their bad parenting)....smelly people, guys who try to pick you up mid air...all the crap I hate about flying.

I'm SURE none of you EVER have kids that act up.....uh huh.


This is why I adore my friends who have a 6 month old. They will be the FIRST to say that babies and kids can be bratty annoying little a-holes and will do everything in their power to stop the baby when she gets in one of her moods.

I get that kids can be brats. I GET IT. If the parent is trying to fix the problem...ok..at least you are trying. If you are sitting there calmly reading Cosmo while your kid kicks the back of my chair singing barney songs at the top of his lungs...you're gettin' an earful.


And ANYONE who dares say its JUST A FUCKING DOG...or cat, or bird or rat or whatever....go straight to hell. Seriously...swan dive right into the River Styx you unfeeling piece of crap.Just because you have a child doesnt mean pets are now worthless and deserve nothing. It is not JUST A FUCKING DOG. ITs MY FUCKING DOG.Or its My FUCKING CAT...or whatever. Its JUST A FUCKING BABY.....makes just as much sense.

My "fucking" dog saved my life.....twice. Bet your infant didnt do that.



I love kids..I truly do. I hate parents who get an overinflated sense of entitlement and think kids can do no wrong and should never be complained about.

And when animals are brought into it...trying to say that animals arent inportant because its JUST a dog....I dont want to be associated with anyone who thinks that way.


This thread should be closed. The entitlemoos are at it again and it's getting ugly.

Actually, all kids DON'T fly free. Only babies fly free up til 2 years of age...and then you have to pay full-fare for the ticket. Well, babies who are being held by their parents. We held Makayla the first time, but every time after that, we've paid full fare for her seat.

I don't agree with the statement about "stuffing kids under the seat" however and I think the person who is getting quite miffed is you, Cam. Just chill out. Everyone has horror stories about everything on a plane. I've been on a plane with a crated dog that wouldn't shut up...the owner KNEW this would happen...but didn't give the dog the "downer" the vet gave her because that would be mean (Uh....what about my ears from the dog "crying" for 4 hours??). This dog also shat itself a lot and the cabin fucking stunk of dog shit. That dog should have been in the cargo hold. It's a fucking DOG. At least I can change my child's diapers and not stink up the entire cabin from having shit all over it's body and nothing to clean it up with.

Everyone just needs to chill out. For you childless people, it's NOT just a baby and I agree that more parents need to learn how to control their children. For parents, the animals are not JUST an animal and the same respect has to be given that way, as well.

Just take a deep breath and relax. I'm sure that a lot of the people venting about children and plane horror stories don't REALLY feel this way about children. It's a vent.

cameron_keys
11-21-2007, 11:13 PM
Actually, all kids DON'T fly free. Only babies fly free up til 2 years of age...and then you have to pay full-fare for the ticket.

I don't agree with the statement about "stuffing kids under the seat" however and I think the person who is getting quite miffed is you, Cam. Just chill out. Everyone has horror stories about everything on a plane. I've been on a plane with a crated dog that wouldn't shut up...the owner KNEW this would happen...but didn't give the dog the "downer" the vet gave her because that would be mean (Uh....what about my ears from the dog "crying" for 4 hours??). This dog also shat itself a lot and the cabin fucking stunk of dog shit. That dog should have been in the cargo hold. It's a fucking DOG. At least I can change my child's diapers and not stink up the entire cabin from having shit all over it's body and nothing to clean it up with.

Everyone just needs to chill out. For you childless people, it's NOT just a baby and I agree that more parents need to learn how to control their children. For parents, the animals are not JUST an animal and the same respect has to be given that way, as well.

Just take a deep breath and relax. I'm sure that a lot of the people venting about children and plane horror stories don't REALLY feel this way about children. It's a vent.

So pets up to age two or up to a certain size should fly free too.
And its that its JUST a fucking animal crap that got my back up..which came from several people. I would never say Its JUST a BABY....so saying its JUST an animal like it doesnt matter pisses me off, yes.

Yes, the dog owner should have tranqued her dog. The childs parent should control their kids. But I think it goes both ways.

I dont agree with cargo hold. Like I said animals have died down there...temp isnt always regulated right, etc....and they arent LUGGAGE. They are living breathing creatures who dont deserve to be treated like a suitcase.

I dont think anyone here dislikes kids in general...but they can be annoying and there are valid reasons to vent.

Why does every parent with an overinflated sense of entitlement seem to think it is NOT ok to EVER complain about ANYTHING any kid does EVER.
Not every kid is a perfect angel 24/7. If your is...count yourself lucky. I know I wasnt,and I deserved every punishment I got for being a brat.

stripperMBA
11-21-2007, 11:16 PM
The past five times I have flown I have witnessed mothers attempting to take juice, or water in the sippy cups through security. I feel bad for them being so out of the loop. TSA has had these restrictions for a while now. None of us here make the regulations, that is what TSA does.
I wonder what are the cultural behavioral norms for children in other countries? Here in the U.S.A. it seem that many children are just allowed to run amuck. That is why on this topic for instance we have people complaining about a lack of good basic behavior. No we are not talking about well behaved children, or the occassional criers. Like Yeh I was raised with a very firm hand ready to smack my behind if I misbehaved. My parents are immigrants, and I was raised in an immigrant community were it was traditional to be very, very strict. When we traveled as kids we were expected to be on our best behavior. I guess not everyone expects the best behavior from their kids, and many may even find the acting out and screaming acceptable. If children are not taught how to act in a proper way when they are young, how will they be behaving when they grow up..../:O

doc-catfish
11-21-2007, 11:28 PM
I realize this was a bit easier back when a closeby extended family was the norm, but there was a time when it was considered there simply were places where children shouldn't be unless it was absolutely necessary. Planes were one of those places.


I just hope that none of you who are not parents or are "great" parents and your children are so well behaved that are saints ever deal with PPD or Depression and or other problems that may cause the parent to not be well. Every person has a shitty day, week, month, year which can cause certain behavour where other people can look at you with "wtf is wrong with that person, ugh! parent already"
Having seen enough parents in my time, I can assure you most child behavioral problems, or the parent's inability to do anything about them, are not caused by either the child or parent's psychological disorders. They're mostly caused by Mom and Dad placating Junior's tantrums by giving him/her a cookie. Not only have they set their child a bad example of behavioral conditioning, but they've also set them on the road to diabetes and cavities.

But being the nice guy that I am, I'll reserve judgment in case I am dealing with the exception. The thing about the exception though, is that its' well...exceptional. And you can to a large degree tell if you are dealing with it by simply observing how parents react to their children's misbehavior.


Overwhelmed parents is something other people do not have sympathy for and it is sad to me because children are exhausting.
There's a lack of sympathy because there's a lack of parents today making a competent attempt to try and not be "overwhelmed".


If the worst you have to deal with is a few hrs of "torture" from a child you probably will never see again you should be glad.
Umm, no. I paid as much for that plane ride as anyone else and deserve to have an enjoyable flight as anyone else. And if I never see that child again, so what. There will just be another one like him on the next plane.

In any case, I can grant my sympathies when we are dealing with an infant, or a child with a physical/mental disorder. When its a 4-year old toddler with nothing more wrong than a sugar high, not so much.

I am in agreement that segregated seating, if not outright segregated planes would be a good idea. But with the airlines in the desperate shape that they are, fat chance of that happening.

jaizaine
11-21-2007, 11:43 PM
Comparing a human life to an animal is absolutely the best thing you can do because you walk on all 4's right/



We are all animals. Humans are no better, no more superior than any other form of life.

High_Heel_Lover
11-22-2007, 06:47 AM
I am an animal lover, I cried when my dog killed baby bunnies, wild bunnies from the yard, I stopped on the high way because a car hit a dog and didn't stop and when the cops came BIG guy would not go near the German Shepard so he stopped traffic and I picked the dog up and put him in the cop car. I volunteer at an animal shelter so I am not saying animals are not important, my cat Peanut is my baby girl but lets go to an extreme and say a child is drowning and Peanut is drowning as much as it would hurt me I would save the child.

Cam you also say your animals have saved your life and that if fantastic! I bet if I was in any immediate danger my cat would look at me and go "see ya" but I, myself am alive because of my children, the mass thoughts of suicide and other personal things, having my children has made live.

Also a person will some day :I hope: find cures to many of the horrible diseases that kill so many. :(


I know what you guys are saying and I hope you understand what I am saying but I think that what we pay for is a seat, a crappy meal, a movie that we really don't want to see and unless we have our own private stuff we will have to deal with this crap. It's a way of transportation for everyone not a flying spa. In a bus, same shit but cheaper, on train, same shit but cheaper.

I wonder if people can request not to be seated near children?

Anyway I don't want to argue just trying to put out there that parents can't be perfect 100% of the time, it's impossible, no one is perfect.

desavirsire
11-22-2007, 08:53 AM
And I'd not want my dog, cat or any other pet in cargo hold OR stuffed under a seat....they ARE my children.


I dont think anyone seriously suggested stuffing a child under a seat..that was irony.

As usual Cam you are dead on, thats all I have to add to this one anymore.

cameron_keys
11-22-2007, 09:28 AM
OK...most of the arguing I believe has now been settled in PM's(and that which hasnt ...wont, knowing those involved) ...so I feel no need to continue posting here.

Sunshine73
11-22-2007, 11:22 AM
I think it doesnt matter who you are, you should do what you can to be considerate of others and take responsibility for who you bring on the plane, be it a child, dog, cat, giraffe, whatever.

This isn't about children or dogs. It's about irresponsible/inconsiderate parents/pet owners.

AudreyLeigh
11-22-2007, 11:49 AM
That was one hell of a thread.

hardkandee
11-22-2007, 11:51 AM
We are all animals. Humans are no better, no more superior than any other form of life.

Thank you!!