Log in

View Full Version : sicko.



Pages : 1 [2]

Yekhefah
11-25-2007, 12:54 AM
Global warming deserves its own thread, but personally I'm irritated that the American debate focuses exclusively on whose FAULT it is rather than what we can actually do about it. Typically American... all finger-pointing, no action.

As for Sicko, I really wish Michael Moore would just shut the fuck up. Yes, his movies are entertaining, but everyone knows he's full of shit. So consequently every subject he brings up gets dismissed as "Michael Moore propaganda" and no one takes it seriously anymore. His endorsement of any idea is the political kiss of death.

TheSexKitten
11-25-2007, 12:56 AM
Global warming is only a theory, and there are some good reasons to protest the making of policy based on scientific theory, especially when that policy has an adverse impact on human life.

This comment is not to argue, I just noticed an interesting parallel between you and I. I would rather have policy based on scientific "theory" than on religious theory, but it's obviously the same concept.

Amelia
11-25-2007, 12:58 AM
Well, kitten, when you look at it closely, environmentalism IS much like a religion to many people (which makes it all the more scary in my book, if you ask me!)

TheSexKitten
11-25-2007, 01:00 AM
Global warming deserves its own thread, but personally I'm irritated that the American debate focuses exclusively on whose FAULT it is rather than what we can actually do about it. Typically American... all finger-pointing, no action.


:D How true! Well, we can't unify and do anything at all unless we reach a conclusion as a nation. I hate the competitive nature of the two political parties! It's like they're always trying to argue just for the damn sake of disagreeing. Republicans support thriving industry??! FUCK that, I'ma be a wacky owl-loving ecologist! Democrats like socialized medicine so everyone can be healthy??! FUCK that! I'll keep all my money to myself so no one sees a drop.

Everyone's trying to cut off their nose to spite their face, instead of working together as Americans to solve the problem.

sun child
11-25-2007, 01:21 AM
That's funny you said owl-loving. (sorry I'm continuing the threadjack - esp. since no one responded to my health care nightmare story which was a threadjack in itself). The effort to save the northern spotted owl resulted in "the loss of livelihoods" of over 30 thousand men in Washington state alone. People up here are pretty bitter about it although supporters of the actions shutting down millions of acres of logging land down say that it forced some economies to branch out and find other sources of income. And now the species is probably going to go extinct because of an oak disease and another aggressive species of owl is pushing it out of its habitat.

Read more at NPR: . What I said was just a summary of this article.

TheSexKitten
11-25-2007, 01:52 AM
That's pretty interesting! I just pulled it out of my ass. :blush:

Alaska
11-25-2007, 04:50 AM
Oh my god, I didn't want to look at this thread for fear of what it might have become.....Amelia....you are scary. I'm not fearmongered, and global warming is more of an imminent threat than we have previously guessed.

So because you don't feel that way, you're a person who would like to run the vacuum cleaning and blast lights forever to prove it?

"Just because the media tells you so" is an incredibly weak arguement. How about articles from reliable sources profiling these scientists and the work they've done, and of course the scientists themselves and the books they write. Sorry. Every American gets their info from the "media". You just have to pick the right kind.

I love how Republicans have crappy arguements and posts links like those. Talk about unscientific. But I guess that's what you don't like--science.

I'd like to see a global warming thread.

Corgan
11-25-2007, 05:06 AM
^ me too.

lotsoffun201
11-25-2007, 08:41 AM
Being in the healthcare field (surgeon) , I have to chime in here.

Remember that HMO mangers and execs often get 7 figure bonuses every year

We docs are expecting a 20% reduction in fees after January 1st

Breast Implants can be put in by ANY medium skilled surgeon and learned in a couple of days. By the way, that is ANY SURGEON OF ANY TYPE WITH ANY TRAINING such as general surgeons, Dermatological surgeons, Orthopedic surgeons, etc. By the way a cardiac surgeon gets $1200 to do a bypass and save your life with 8 years of training. It's little wonder they are taking the breast implant courses isn't it?

Radiologists get $5.00 for reading an x-ray and $50 to read an MRI

Anesthesiologists get $300 to keep you alive during surgery regardless of how long it is.

Surgical Malpractice insurance can be over $100,000 per year for some specialties
Imagine how many cases you have to do to break even. Think about that next time a procedure is suggested by your doc.

Medium grade office visits usually reimburse the doc $30.00. Remember your $20.00 copay? I routinely get checks for office visits for $.18 (eighteen cents) and the patients fight about the $20 copay bringing my visit to $20.18!

Emergency rooms are crowded since they are primary care centers for the illegal aliens, and in order to continue to receive funding the hospital MUST SEE THEM. They know the care is essentially free and will continue to go there. (try to put one of them in collections and see if they care) Imagine this scenario.....patient admitted to hospital and needs emergency surgery, no insurance, no pay source, and you are the surgeon on call. Hmmmm, let them die, refuse to see them, refuse to operate, go before the medical board, bloodsucking personal injury lawyer..... Operate, save their life, get paid nothing. Happens to me EVERY WEEK! Oh and by the way, in case you wondered, yes I do my best work on everyone. I do get a nice thank you when they are done though but it's usually in spanish.

VenusGoddess
11-25-2007, 09:27 AM
Being in the healthcare field (surgeon) , I have to chime in here.

Remember that HMO mangers and execs often get 7 figure bonuses every year

We docs are expecting a 20% reduction in fees after January 1st

Breast Implants can be put in by ANY medium skilled surgeon and learned in a couple of days. By the way, that is ANY SURGEON OF ANY TYPE WITH ANY TRAINING such as general surgeons, Dermatological surgeons, Orthopedic surgeons, etc. By the way a cardiac surgeon gets $1200 to do a bypass and save your life with 8 years of training. It's little wonder they are taking the breast implant courses isn't it?

Radiologists get $5.00 for reading an x-ray and $50 to read an MRI

Anesthesiologists get $300 to keep you alive during surgery regardless of how long it is.

Surgical Malpractice insurance can be over $100,000 per year for some specialties
Imagine how many cases you have to do to break even. Think about that next time a procedure is suggested by your doc.

Medium grade office visits usually reimburse the doc $30.00. Remember your $20.00 copay? I routinely get checks for office visits for $.18 (eighteen cents) and the patients fight about the $20 copay bringing my visit to $20.18!

Emergency rooms are crowded since they are primary care centers for the illegal aliens, and in order to continue to receive funding the hospital MUST SEE THEM. They know the care is essentially free and will continue to go there. (try to put one of them in collections and see if they care) Imagine this scenario.....patient admitted to hospital and needs emergency surgery, no insurance, no pay source, and you are the surgeon on call. Hmmmm, let them die, refuse to see them, refuse to operate, go before the medical board, bloodsucking personal injury lawyer..... Operate, save their life, get paid nothing. Happens to me EVERY WEEK! Oh and by the way, in case you wondered, yes I do my best work on everyone. I do get a nice thank you when they are done though but it's usually in spanish.

It's still sad that people pay out the ass for insurance that doesn't pay anything and usually sticks the patient/family with the bill of "unauthorized/non-covered" fees.

Of course, at the same time...I fail to believe that surgical gloves cost $12.00/pair (which is what was billed to my insurance company when I had my daughter at the hospital).

And ^^ stuff you said above is exactly why I am pushing for preventative maintenance with my family (homebirth, organic foods, homeopathy/chiropractic/reflexology for care) and staying away from the healthcare period. Of course, one trip to the ER will cost thousands (as it did for my son who fell and hit his head).

Habinairo
11-25-2007, 10:03 AM
I'm not sure why you have to go to a clinic or ER??^^ Can you explain why you didn't just go to a regular doctor?

My doctor lives in another city. I moved but I knew if I went to find another doctor, it wouldn't happen. So I kept mine. They are in very short supply here, my bf hasn't had a family doctor in about 10 years, though he applies for one, they don't get around to him. I really don't want my kids to be without a doctor for a long time. I can see my doctor for check ups and needles and regular appointments, but for serious things, they can't wait for a week or two.

Casual Observer
11-25-2007, 10:42 AM
You mean healthcare professionals should be compensated for their work? Surely you jest! Why, they should just treat people out of sheer altruism...


I'll never understand why people are more outraged by Michael Moore than by some of the points that he brings up.

Because he's not a producer of documentaries, he a producer of propaganda. Any kernels of truth he may illuminate are darkened by his neo-Marxist agenda. You just can't take his stuff seriously. He arguably does more damage to his agendas with his particular brand of demagoguery than any opposition could on their own, simply because he provides them with an in to do so from the start.

TheSexKitten
11-25-2007, 01:57 PM
By the way a cardiac surgeon gets $1200 to do a bypass and save your life with 8 years of training. It's little wonder they are taking the breast implant courses isn't it?

That is lame. Considering what it costs for the patient, and how the surgeon is the most skilled person involved, there's some puzzle pieces missing here, isn't there? >:(

Dottie Rebel
11-25-2007, 02:01 PM
Because he's not a producer of documentaries, he a producer of propaganda. Any kernels of truth he may illuminate are darkened by his neo-Marxist agenda. You just can't take his stuff seriously. He arguably does more damage to his agendas with his particular brand of demagoguery than any opposition could on their own, simply because he provides them with an in to do so from the start.

This is probably off topic, but do you believe in 100% objective documentary? I don't. At least he's out with it.

Adrenaline
11-25-2007, 02:10 PM
I hate insurance companies, they are robbing the docs and robbing the patients. But I don't think government funded healthcare is the solution.

As a specialist, it just doesn't make any sense to take government funded patients. The limiting factor to my income is the number of hours that I can work per week. If I can fill up all my appointment slots with privately insured and cash pay patients, why would I fill up slots with lesser paying government funded patients? I need to be able to pay for all my overhead which is close to 50%. There is the rent on my office, insurance, office expenses (phones, electronic medical record, supplies), and staff (LVN, front desk, office manager). If we do go to an universal healthcare system, I will happily see patients if the reimbursement is fair. If not, I will keep my services for private sector and cash pay patients.

242_fair
11-25-2007, 02:46 PM
I have spent 3 years and $6000 fighting my socilized canadian health insurance plan to fix a legitimate problem in my arm, and ultimately had to pay $25k out of pocket to do it in a 3rd world country because the surgery I needed was not available in Canada.

They do it in Baltimore though, and if I was an insured American it would have been done there when I was a little kid.

Canadian health care is not a bed of roses, lots of people die here because the medicine is not advanced as the states, and because there are long delays from the system being overwhelmed.

Also all the talented doctors leave the country since their incomes are capped here, and elsewhere they can make more money.

Free is nice, but u get what you pay for.

Corgan
11-25-2007, 04:09 PM
^ very much so!

but... i get chronic uti's... i so wish i could just call the doctor for some meds. id be so much cheaper than a $300+ trip it'd be here in the states.

on my first plane ride over, i met a woman who married a canadian (she's from california) and she told me she paid something like $80 month for her family of four to be taken care of medically. she said sometimes you don't need it, but it's worth it when one of her kiddos needs a surgery. it's FREE. kind of like insurance but it leaves you with more of an "ensured" feeling.

Amelia
11-25-2007, 06:01 PM
A good start in improving the state of healthcare in the US might be to eliminate regulation in respect to medical accredidation. This might seem outrageous to some, but if anyone were legally allowed to practice medicine, and if more schools were allowed to teach medicine, the prices of services would be driven down drastically. Of course, more responsibility would fall on you to find out whether or not a healthcare professional is qualified enough to handle your particular situation, but a lot of people are already taking this route when they fly to India or Thailand to have their procedures done. Right now those qualified and experienced doctors are not allowed to practice in the US, but imagine if they were? Not to say this is a perfect solution, but it would be a good start.

Here are some interesting articles on this subject:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/medical.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/wilson-l1.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/archives/fm/08-90.html


Again, I am just offering some alternative ways at looking at issues, things that aren't usually brought up in the mainstream media or public school classrooms. You can disagree with me if you like, but if you take the time to read about other ideas you'll benefit--either by strengthening your already held beliefs, or discovering something new. And to those above who called me "scary" and "republican" (don't know which is worse) if you go back and read my posts you'll see that all I am saying is that there are alternative viewpoints, and offering information to those who might be interested. I certainly didn't claim to agree with everything written by every author on each website I linked to, and for the poster who said I was crazy for using a lot of electricity just to stick it to the greenies, if you looked at the posts you'll see that I never said anything of the sort--that was brought up by someone else who looked at a completely different article on a website I linked to (and for the record, that was the first time I had ever been to that site, I just googled for a quick overview of the case against socialized medicine and that seemed to fit what I was looking for). I certainly wouldn't do that--I don't have money to waste on high electric bills!

I would think that girls in our profession would know better than to just believe what is fed to us in the mass media, and by the government. If everything you hear from those venues was true, this board wouldn't exist--as we all know that us strippers are illiterate, drug-addled whores, only doing it because we were molested as children and have no self-worth.

All I am saying is look into these things for yourselves, and don't accept things as truth just because 95% of other people say so. 95% of people say and believe a lot of really stupid and irrational things...

Anyway, that's all I have to say here. I hope this encourages some fruitful discussion.

FrustratedBunny
11-25-2007, 06:50 PM
I have tried to make an appointment with a doctor as a cash-pay patient and they WOULD NOT MAKE THE APPOINTMENT! Hello! I am willing to PAY, no insurance to deal with, blah, blah, blah. Wouldn't make the damn appointment because I have no insurance.

Alaska
11-25-2007, 07:39 PM
I just want to know WHY there are "alternative viewpoints" to global warming--which is a scary fact that is happening soon. Thanks for that other side tho, gonna get ready to collect french fry grease now. (btw some ppl in my town are doing this...that's cool.)

Amelia
11-25-2007, 08:14 PM
There are plenty of well educated people who do not think that global warming is a threat, much less an immediate threat. The following might interest you:

http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p1845.htm

This is a link to an project in which over *19,000* scientists (or educated people with documented scientific backgrounds) signed a petition stating the following:

"We urge the United States government to reject the global warming agreement that was written in Kyoto, Japan in December, 1997, and any other similar proposals. The proposed limits on greenhouse gases would harm the environment, hinder the advance of science and technology, and damage the health and welfare of mankind.

There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth."


----- Qualification to be a signatory requires that the individual have a university degree in physical science, either BS, MS, or PhD. Those with MS or PhD degrees are so designated. Those with BS degrees are undesignated or sometimes designated as MD if appropriate.

The costs of this petition project have been paid entirely by private donations. No industrial funding or money from sources within the coal, oil, natural gas or related industries has been utilized. The petition's organizers, who include some faculty members and staff of the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine, do not otherwise receive funds from such sources. The Institute itself has no such funding. Also, no funds of tax-exempt organizations have been used for this project.

The signatures and the text of the petition stand alone and speak for themselves. These scientists have signed this specific document. They are not associated with any particular organization. Their signatures represent a strong statement about this important issue by many of the best scientific minds in the United States.

This project is titled "Petition Project" and uses a mailing address of its own because the organizers desired an independent, individual opinion from each scientist based on the scientific issues involved - without any implied endorsements of individuals, groups, or institutions.

In a listing of this size, some apparently duplicate names and some names identical to real or fictional people who are not scientists or signatories occur by chance. This listing has been very carefully verified. It contains one and only one entry for each scientist and contains no entries for individuals who are not trained in science or who did not sign the petition. ------------

There is also a scientific study posted at that website. Another excellent source that might interest you is the book "The Skeptical Environmentalist" written by environmental activist Bjørn Lomborg.

Not trying to change your mind on the issue, just trying to show you that it isn't exactly a closed topic for debate.

head turner
11-25-2007, 08:41 PM
i know a canadian millionaire that had to come to the states for timely medical care.

Not everything american is fucked.

kitty260
11-25-2007, 09:42 PM
Canadians have been paying out-of-pocket for medical care in the US for ages. I knows tons of people who have done it for back surgeries and chronic pain issues and my mom is about to do the same for her cataracts. Basically, that's why Canada won't go to a two-tiered system.

All the doctors will jump ship and go into private practice, leaving nobody for the ones who can't afford to pay. The canadians who are willing and able to pay for care go to the States. The ones who can't or aren't willing can wait in line. I don't see what a two-tiered system can accomplish in this country besides double or triple the wait times we already have.

If you're working for a decent company you can probably get extended health insurance anyways. If you're REALLY lucky, they're 100% company paid and include little perks like free ambulances, free flu shots and free private hospital rooms. Contrary to popular belief, not everything is completely free in the Canadian health care world. Coverage varies according to province and you can still end up paying for shit out of your own pocket if you're not happy with the bare minimum. Lucky for me, my SO's insurance is ensuring that my impending delivery is carried out in the lap of luxury in a private ward as opposed to the cattle-like shared rooms that I'd have ended up in if we didn't have extended coverage.

Corgan
11-25-2007, 10:57 PM
if i were a canadian millionaire, i would be able to buy the best healthcare outright and i wouldn't worry about it.

Dottie Rebel
11-25-2007, 11:26 PM
^^Yeah. Same goes for USA millionaires.

lotsoffun201
11-25-2007, 11:35 PM
ADRENALINE

Seems you and I read the same threads! How do you keep your office running at 50%? Mine runs closer to 60% and sometimes even higher. Regarding the surgical gloves at $12 per pair that was mentioned, trust me on this one, and pair of Biogels, (which I use) are pretty close to that. Heaven forbid you have Hepatitis or HIV and I have to operate with BIOMET Kevlars. I don't even want to tell you what those cost. Luckily, the hospital supplies them. Oh and by the way if I cut them, which happens frequently in Orthopedic cases, I will need another pair.

My limit as well as Adrenaline's is how many hours in the day we can work. Myself, being a surgeon try to limit the number of cases I do in a day to 3 or 4 two days a week. You would be astonished at how tiring it is and how much you can consume food wise between cases. The amount of energy expended during cases is incredible. Your concentration has to be at its peak, and truthfully, I don't think a patient would appreciate you doing more surgical cases.

Our "hourly" rates for procedures are frightening (low)

I could probably put more money in my pocket with less aggrivation if I sold the equipment I use rather than use it. The bottom line is our system is injured but not broken. We do have the best technology in the world, the problem is the HMO's and attorneys refuse to either compensate us for it or make us think twice about using it.

Adrenaline knows it, and so do I. Attorneys and HMO's write the rules for us to follow, and we as doctors just bend over and let them stick it where they want! And by the way, they don't have to follow the same rule. Give another doctor a referral fee for a patient and go straight to club fed, but an attorney can give another attorney a referral fee without question. The only thing they have to answer to is some obscure thing known as honest services fraud, and I can't recall too many attorneys going to club fed recently for that one!

Adrenaline
11-26-2007, 12:18 AM
ADRENALINE

Seems you and I read the same threads! How do you keep your office running at 50%? Mine runs closer to 60% and sometimes even higher. Regarding the surgical gloves at $12 per pair that was mentioned, trust me on this one, and pair of Biogels, (which I use) are pretty close to that. Heaven forbid you have Hepatitis or HIV and I have to operate with BIOMET Kevlars. I don't even want to tell you what those cost. Luckily, the hospital supplies them. Oh and by the way if I cut them, which happens frequently in Orthopedic cases, I will need another pair.

My limit as well as Adrenaline's is how many hours in the day we can work. Myself, being a surgeon try to limit the number of cases I do in a day to 3 or 4 two days a week. You would be astonished at how tiring it is and how much you can consume food wise between cases. The amount of energy expended during cases is incredible. Your concentration has to be at its peak, and truthfully, I don't think a patient would appreciate you doing more surgical cases.

Our "hourly" rates for procedures are frightening (low)

I could probably put more money in my pocket with less aggrivation if I sold the equipment I use rather than use it. The bottom line is our system is injured but not broken. We do have the best technology in the world, the problem is the HMO's and attorneys refuse to either compensate us for it or make us think twice about using it.

Adrenaline knows it, and so do I. Attorneys and HMO's write the rules for us to follow, and we as doctors just bend over and let them stick it where they want! And by the way, they don't have to follow the same rule. Give another doctor a referral fee for a patient and go straight to club fed, but an attorney can give another attorney a referral fee without question. The only thing they have to answer to is some obscure thing known as honest services fraud, and I can't recall too many attorneys going to club fed recently for that one!

Being in a non-surgical specialty keeps the costs a bit lower. Malpractice insurance for PM&R is less than $10k / year for a "one-one-three" type of plan. Not too much equipment required either.... biggest purchase is the EMG machine for electrodiagnostic studies. You ortho guys always want the radiculopathy studies or the carpal tunnel / cubital tunnel screens :)