View Full Version : Women: The Thread
zxcire
11-29-2007, 06:41 PM
I'm somewhat confused. Isn't evo-bio SO much more than what either of you is saying? I mean it encompasses so many other fields of scientific study. It's not even all about humans FGS. Am I wrong to be confused? It just seems like a silly little argument about a tiny little corner of a speck of a part of the study of evo-bio that she's getting upset over...
xdamage
11-29-2007, 06:50 PM
I'm somewhat confused. Isn't evo-bio SO much more than what either of you is saying? I mean it encompasses so many other fields of scientific study. It's not even all about humans FGS. Am I wrong to be confused? It just seems like a silly little argument about a tiny little corner of a speck of a part of the study of evo-bio that she's getting upset over...
It is indeed. I'd just be happy if it wasn't thrown at as a bunch of BS. Anything after this is frosting on a very big cake ;)
miabella
11-29-2007, 06:52 PM
nah, ev bio is merely an assortment of just-so stories-- looking at a trait or human/animal behavior and making up a cute story to explain how it came to be. there was a pretty funny article playing on this posted to scitechdaily or aldaily a few months back.
i mean, the thing is, i could pony up links easily illustrating the idiocy that underlies ev bio, but xdamage is a True Believer in its ability to explain the whole of human behavior and thought or something, so it's not really worth posting the critiques that are in any case easily googled and often written by people who also have degrees from high-end universities and are also professors.
ev bio is bunk, and anyone who thinks it's not is a bit silly. shockingly, people can read the same material and NOT fall abjectly in love with the conclusions it presents. that doesn't mean one failed to 'grasp the material' simply because one's conclusions are different to a True Believer's conclusions regarding the material.
zxcire
11-29-2007, 06:58 PM
nah, ev bio is merely an assortment of just-so stories-- looking at a trait or human/animal behavior and making up a cute story to explain how it came to be. there was a pretty funny article playing on this posted to scitechdaily or aldaily a few months back.
Really. So the theory of evolution is included in this? A cute story? Okay, if you feel that way, I know I'm done with this conversation!!!!::)
xdamage
11-29-2007, 07:02 PM
nah, ev bio is merely an assortment of just-so stories-- looking at a trait or human behavior and making up a cute story to explain how it came to be. there was a pretty funny article playing on this posted to scitechdaily or aldaily a few months back.
i mean, the thing is, i could pony up links easily illustrating the idiocy that underlies ev bio, but xdamage is a True Believer in its ability to explain the whole of human behavior and thought or something, so it's not really worth posting the critiques that are in any case easily googled and often written by people who also have degrees from high-end universities and are also professors.
ev bio is bunk, and anyone who thinks it's not is a bit silly. shockingly, people can read the same material and NOT fall abjectly in love with the conclusions it presents. that doesn't mean one failed to 'grasp the material' simply because one's conclusions are different to a True Believer's conclusions regarding the material.
The problem is that people believe in the "everything is socially trained" theory with absolutely no proof at all. It is the ultimate magic wand. Anything you don't like about social behavior - wave the wand, poof, blaim some group of blaim "society".
And it is an evil wand. It gives people complete power to attribute anything to "society" with no proof whatsoever and they use that power freely.
Several problems though.
#1 - See the definition of society - turns out society is made up of people. That's all. So blaiming behavior and beliefs on on society is just a circular argument.
#2 - People use the magic wand as it suits them. If they like something, they take credit "I did it". If not, wave the wand "society is at fault".
The beauty of EV is that it finally pushes back at the magic wand. EV theories don't even need to be 100% right. They just need to push back and start asking questions, especially in light of point #1, and go deeper and ask but "WHY DOES SOCIETY... do that or believe that or act like that?" What is it about people that resulted in that social belief or behavior?
I think the truth is simply that those who are use to using the magic society-did-it wand simply don't like that they are finally being challenged, that they don't get a free ride to believe anything without proof, and they find it annoying, but THAT does not mean it is not right to push back. The reality is nobody who believes in EV BIO believes their theories are FACT. That is your problem is you are reading that into it, but that doesn't mean it isn't correct to ask the RIGHT kind of questions, and so far those who attribute everything to social training aren't asking any questions at all. They make up their arguments about who is to blaim for what little or no no proof or question because their underlying assumption is flawed, but they are beyond questioning that it is flawed.
EV theories don't need to be right at this point in history! They just need to be the right type of questions to stimulate right thinking. That is the key and it is critical.
zxcire
11-29-2007, 07:05 PM
EV theories don't need to be right at this point in history! They just need to be the right type of questions to stimulate right thinking. That is the key and it is critical.
Word. I mean that's pretty much what science should be--continuous and changing.
xdamage
11-29-2007, 07:08 PM
Word. I mean that's pretty much what science should be--continuous and changing.
^^^ Exactly. It is a never ending process.
lestat1
11-29-2007, 07:16 PM
So am I the only one who thinks my behavior is determined by a combination of biology, environment, society, my life experiences and upbringing, my brain, and my choices?
zxcire
11-29-2007, 07:21 PM
So am I the only one who thinks my behavior is determined by a combination of biology, environment, society, my life experiences and upbringing, my brain, and my choices?
Right there with ya.
Or maybe I'm god's sick puppet.
Who knows.
Jenny
11-29-2007, 07:23 PM
So am I the only one who thinks my behavior is determined by a combination of biology, environment, society, my life experiences and upbringing, my brain, and my choices?
No. Almost everyone thinks that.
lestat1
11-29-2007, 07:24 PM
Or maybe I'm god's sick puppet.
Who knows.
Awesome! :D
<-- See avatar for why I find that so perfect.
xdamage
11-29-2007, 07:24 PM
So am I the only one who thinks my behavior is determined by a combination of biology, environment, society, my life experiences and upbringing, my brain, and my choices?
That's what anyone sane has been thinking all along. It is a combination of. However... evo psychologists would say that your mind is effectively wired for certain behaviors, so are others, and that our environment is filled with people similarly wired.
For the computer programmers among us... let me give an analogy :
Computer programmers know that if you just put RAM into a computer nothing happens. It won't do shit.
The CPU is pre-programmed with a lot of logic. So is your keyboard, graphics card, even mouse, BIOS, your hard drives have firmware, and without an OS your computer is fairly useless. The point is it requires a lot of software/firmware to begin with to do anything else of interest. Evo Psychologists would say your brain is not just RAM. It is not just a blank slate waiting to be filled with information. It is in effect, already pre-programmed (because of evolution) with a LOT of information. It is because of that you can learn language (but a simpler creature cannot), and that you will have sex without learning it, and eat and much else.
But... there was no master plan to make your brain a perfect receptacle. A BLANK SLATE. Rather, the wiring of your brain has picked up a lot of coloring and ideas over many hundreds of millions of years of evolution, and those do dramatically affect your thinking, feelings, and societies are reflections of that, not the other way around.
Katrine
11-29-2007, 08:29 PM
I'm sorry, is it me?
I hope you're joking, but got no smiley indicator. Of course I am not describing you. Lady, use your smileys!
Katrine
11-29-2007, 08:31 PM
Oh, my one piece of advice is that the girl you are dating will end up looking like her mother. So, check out the mom.
Noooooooooooo!!!
Then again, I look just like my dad, its uncanny. So when I'm 50, I'll still be mostly thin, except with a big hard "vodka gut" and a mustache, lol!
mr_punk
11-29-2007, 10:23 PM
Ev Bio argument - Men are statistically stronger at math by a few percent, women are statistically stronger at verbal skills, because this is an inherent genetic difference over the group as a whole.
The blank slate/social-only argument - Men are statistically stronger at math by a few percent, women are statistically stronger at verbal skills, because of social training. Everyone is born with identical abilities to start with (clearly not so for the same reason aren't statistically born the same weight, height, with the same singing voices, etc).two words.....Lawrence Summers. guess which argument got him into hot water with the PC patrol?
Evo bio is all about bell curves, and statistical averages over LARGE groups, that is all. It doesn't predict individual human behavior.sure, individuals often defy the patterns. a woman can be an engineer or scientist despite the fact that men are stronger at math and science. although, men score higher in certain areas. overall, there's no significant difference n intelligence when all the scores are taken together as a whole. furthermore, intelligence in men seems to be more variable in comparison to women. men are more likely to be at the extremes of the intelligence scale. IOW, there are more men than women on the top end of the scale, but there are also more men than women on the bottom end as well. ironically, i didn't hear one note of the outrage from the PC parade about sexism or providing more opportunities and social encouragement for us male dullards.
xdamage
11-30-2007, 03:14 AM
two words.....Lawrence Summers. guess which argument got him into hot water with the PC patrol?
I remember the Lawrence Summers incident well. The PC patrol did a wonderful job of NOT actually comprehending what was said, and instead summarized their strawman with the catchy phrase "Women can't do math".
sure, individuals often defy the patterns. a woman can be an engineer or scientist despite the fact that men are stronger at math and science. although, men score higher in certain areas. overall, there's no significant difference n intelligence when all the scores are taken together as a whole. furthermore, intelligence in men seems to be more variable in comparison to women. men are more likely to be at the extremes of the intelligence scale. IOW, there are more men than women on the top end of the scale, but there are also more men than women on the bottom end as well. ironically, i didn't hear one note of the outrage from the PC parade about sexism or providing more opportunities and social encouragement for us male dullards.
Agreed with all of this.
Jenny
11-30-2007, 07:38 AM
two words.....Lawrence Summers. guess which argument got him into hot water with the PC patrol?
Lawrence Summers is an renowned economist but with no background in gender relations, gender studies, biology or sociology. He didn't have an argument. He just made a very ill judged speech.
I know! Being a man with remarkable expertise in one field actually doesn't make you qualified to comment on gender relations.
Lapaholic
11-30-2007, 07:50 AM
^^^ Like William Shockley and his "dysgenic" effect!!
xdamage
11-30-2007, 08:16 AM
Lawrence Summers is an renowned economist but with no background in gender relations, gender studies, biology or sociology. He didn't have an argument. He just made a very ill judged speech.
I know! Being a man with remarkable expertise in one field actually doesn't make you qualified to comment on gender relations.
This a point that is out of context, so it is yet another James Strawman.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/01/17/summers_remarks_on_women_draw_fire/
In context he was answering a question, and putting forward a hypothesis that has been suggested by MANY others. In his role, addressing the question was valid.
"Asked about this, Summers said, ''It's possible I made some reference to innate differences. . . I did say that you have to be careful in attributing things to socialization. . . That's what we would prefer to believe, but these are things that need to be studied.""
There was nothing wrong with discussing back, given that it was an academic conference. He was under no obligation or requirement to only say what some people in the room wanted to hear. Nothing is learned without challenges, and discussions.
The problem isn't them. The problem is people like you who heard "Women can't do math" and wanted to burn him on the stake. I can dig up that old thread if you like. I recall it well and your lack of understanding. It is you and people like you who scare because it's the type of emotional radical non-thinking, witch-hunting mindset that has always slowed down truth and scientific discussion through history.
Do you guys ever think about the money you spent on a relationship/person that didn't work out and really have a moment of regret?
I was clearing out some email just now and I saw a few old messages from TicketMaster confirming my purchases of various tickets to sporting events, concerts, etc of women I no longer sleep with and i kinda wish I had the money back.
Some people will say and truly believe that they had "fun in the moment" and I guess I did, but now it just looks like sunk costs to me. It makes me sad because I would be a real gift-giver and spoiler of women but I realize I'm going to end up regretting it.
I really feel for guys who bought a woman some expensive clothes or say plastic surgery and now that woman is using those items to attract and please other men. One of the most comment soundbites I hear from Cougar-types is "look at what my ex-husband bought me" as she shows off her fake tits, lipo, or whatever. Don't be that guy.
SportsWriter2
11-30-2007, 10:21 AM
I was clearing out some email just now and I saw a few old messages from TicketMaster confirming my purchases of various tickets to sporting events... [for] women I no longer sleep with and i kinda wish I had the money back.
Well, if you had a real name like Sportswriter instead of a drive-by name like Sh0t, you would have had tickets for free. PLs who hold tickets they can't use give them to dancers who don't care about sports. Those dancers give them to "a friend" (me) rather than toss them and have to lie (more than they already do - there's an economy of lying). But even I tossed Celtics tickets last year. :-\
I have my avenues of free stuff, too. I just don't have any reason to complain about those events because I didn't spend any money on them. I'm sure you don't get EVERYTHING free, correct?
In many cases these days, I let the women pay so I can alleviate some of my future buyer's remorse. Plus women will do more for you the more they do for you. Kind of a feedback loop for them.
But that wasn't the question, have you ever looked back on money you've spent on/with women and regretted it?
SportsWriter2
11-30-2007, 10:53 AM
In many cases these days, I let the women pay so I can alleviate some of my future buyer's remorse. Plus women will do more for you the more they do for you. Kind of a feedback loop for them.
Spot on. Now that's the Sh0t we respect.
You think TOO has buyer's remorse about paying for the ISP here? I don't think so. When you have way more funds than you need, and you're closer to dead, they're just numbers. :-\
You only get buyer's remorse when you realize it was a bad idea. I don't think he's at that stage yet. It will come though.
Servers don't cost that much anyway. My colo boxes are only 100 bucks a server, and they are higher end machines and on fatter pipes that SW is on. I would gladly host SW and do the administration, would be piece of cake.
You still didn't answer the question for yourself
Yea i got rained on, so i will make youtube videos
Katrine
11-30-2007, 01:55 PM
You only get buyer's remorse when you realize it was a bad idea. I don't think he's at that stage yet. It will come though.
Servers don't cost that much anyway. My colo boxes are only 100 bucks a server, and they are higher end machines and on fatter pipes that SW is on. I would gladly host SW and do the administration, would be piece of cake.
You still didn't answer the question for yourself
Oh please, can you? Pretty pretty please? I will chip in for the costs, and I know others that will. Can we make this happen soon?
I'm sure many of my former customers had some buyer's remorse after spending shitloads of money on me, since I was the type to extract every penny they had, THEN lead them to the ATM........
I've only dated one guy who gave me some money, $1,500 to visit him in NYC. I dumped him and kept the cash. Since then I have given the equivalent to charity because I can't find him.
Tantric sex is not my cup of tea
May I ask to clarify what your relationship with Lady Z again?
Tantric sex is just sex at a very slow pace, a lot of caressing and not a lot of humping, etc. "Spiritual".
Boring IMO, my cardio is at a decent level
lestat1
11-30-2007, 05:09 PM
Do you guys ever think about the money you spent on a relationship/person that didn't work out and really have a moment of regret?
Hmm, I don't think so. Thanks to Quicken and my own anal-retentive record keeping, I can report that my recent 2.5 year relationship cost $5,362.74 (that's money spent on her, so it exludes, for example, the 50% of a dinner out that was my own meal). It was worth it. I had a lot of fun with her and with the money I spent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWcdDxqnGqs
Yea i got rained on, so i will make youtube videos
In the dating world nowadays, how does this apply to ex's? Six months or so after I divorced my first wife back in the 70's, a guy who I was friends with throughout high school started fucking her. She was really into pot and he was a part time dealer. He wasn't a factor in our divorce but it really bothered me that he would take up with her knowing the shit she put me through.
FBR
safado
11-30-2007, 05:24 PM
Do you guys ever think about the money you spent on a relationship/person that didn't work out and really have a moment of regret?
I was clearing out some email just now and I saw a few old messages from TicketMaster confirming my purchases of various tickets to sporting events, concerts, etc of women I no longer sleep with and i kinda wish I had the money back.
Some people will say and truly believe that they had "fun in the moment" and I guess I did, but now it just looks like sunk costs to me. It makes me sad because I would be a real gift-giver and spoiler of women but I realize I'm going to end up regretting it.
I really feel for guys who bought a woman some expensive clothes or say plastic surgery and now that woman is using those items to attract and please other men. One of the most comment soundbites I hear from Cougar-types is "look at what my ex-husband bought me" as she shows off her fake tits, lipo, or whatever. Don't be that guy.
I have not regretted the money spent, because I never spent enough to regret it. What I have regretted was not cheating on them when I had the chance.
safado
11-30-2007, 05:26 PM
Hmm, I don't think so. Thanks to Quicken and my own anal-retentive record keeping, I can report that my recent 2.5 year relationship cost $5,362.74 (that's money spent on her, so it exludes, for example, the 50% of a dinner out that was my own meal). It was worth it. I had a lot of fun with her and with the money I spent.
The important question is how many orgasms did you get for that $5,362.74
I'm not a fan of dating the ex's of your friends either. I suppose you can do the "ask if it's ok" thing, but to me it just seems like desperation.
Now in the game-recognize-game world I move in, I think it's all goodie, because we try to not get attached to chicks anyway, but for normal friendships, I think it's pretty low, especially an ex-WIFE of all things. There are enough chicks out there that a dude can find some other stuff to mess with, IF he considers himself your friend. If he is secretly your enemy, oh well. Nothing to say there.
Lestat, glad to hear you more or less satisfied with your spending. Dunno how I would feel, though.
I think everybody regrets not cheating when things have went south
I'm not a fan of dating the ex's of your friends either. I suppose you can do the "ask if it's ok" thing, but to me it just seems like desperation.
Now in the game-recognize-game world I move in, I think it's all goodie, because we try to not get attached to chicks anyway, but for normal friendships, I think it's pretty low, especially an ex-WIFE of all things. There are enough chicks out there that a dude can find some other stuff to mess with, IF he considers himself your friend. If he is secretly your enemy, oh well. Nothing to say there.
Sh0t, we worked on cars and shit together (which was a big male bonding thing back in the late 60's and early 70's) all through high school. So I guess thinking of him as a friend was reasonable. Obviously, not an enduring friendship but I don't really have many of those from back in the day since I moved far away from where I grew up. But it did bother me a lot at the time. As you stated, there were a lot of women around and with his connection and the hipness of drugs at the time, he could have had dipped his wick further from home, so to speak.
FBR
Katrine
11-30-2007, 06:45 PM
May I ask to clarify what your relationship with Lady Z again?
Tantric sex is just sex at a very slow pace, a lot of caressing and not a lot of humping, etc. "Spiritual".
Boring IMO, my cardio is at a decent level
Agreed.
Yup, sleazy.
Charge it to the game
SportsWriter2
11-30-2007, 09:37 PM
...have you ever looked back on money you've spent on/with women and regretted it?
No, no regrets, maybe because I'm a "love always" kind of guy. I get a lot of long-distance e-mail with attachments.
miabella
11-30-2007, 09:39 PM
The modern american thing of women having to bust ass looking 'hot' to all and sundry, but only a certain specific kind of 'hot' that doesn't even suit all women's body type/face kind of bugs me. it's like socioculturally women are being forced into roles formerly left to the pros (strippers, etc).
it's pretty unfair to expect women to behave like professional sex-toys for free. and yet a lot of women get really defensive about this when it's brought up as a concern.
xdamage
11-30-2007, 09:44 PM
... But it did bother me a lot at the time. As you stated, there were a lot of women around and with his connection and the hipness of drugs at the time, he could have had dipped his wick further from home, so to speak.
I'd have the same reaction. Given the vast number of other women on the planet your "friend" has to pick the only one that is your ex-wife? WTF?
Jenny
11-30-2007, 09:47 PM
I dunno - that hasn't been my experience in life. In my experience guys are looking for a nice looking girl that interests them, not a porn star (this, of course, being why I have work in strip clubs. That is, in my experience, an issue related to a greater social structure than any discrete encounter between a man and a woman. Or is that what you meant?
I'd have the same reaction. Given the vast number of other women on the planet your "friend" has to pick the only one that is your ex-wife? WTF?
At the time I was freaked. But thinking back she was overweight with serious stretch marks. I loved her because she was my first and the mother of my two kids but I don't know why my supposed friend would dis me. Maybe she was the blow job queen I hadn't yet had the opportunity to coronate.
FBR
mr_punk
12-01-2007, 09:43 AM
Lawrence Summers is an renowned economist but with no background in gender relations, gender studies, biology or sociology.well, (1) neither were some of the participants. (2) it was a small academic conference sponsored by the National Bureau of Economics Research and not the NOW. (3) they invited and specifically asked him to give a thought provoking speech on the topic.
He didn't have an argument. He just made a very ill judged speech.true, he gave a disgruntled faction of the faculty all the ammunition they needed to force his resignation and install their own politically correct stooge.
There was nothing wrong with discussing back, given that it was an academic conference. He was under no obligation or requirement to only say what some people in the room wanted to hear. Nothing is learned without challenges, and discussions. exactly.
mr_punk
12-01-2007, 09:56 AM
Do you guys ever think about the money you spent on a relationship/person that didn't work out and really have a moment of regret?no, once i'm done with a relationship. i'm done. hopefully, with a minimum amount of muss and fuss, but i should be so lucky. anyway, i'm not even thinking about that. i just want out.
I was clearing out some email just now and I saw a few old messages from TicketMaster confirming my purchases of various tickets to sporting events, concerts, etc of women I no longer sleep with and i kinda wish I had the money back.you feel buyer's remorse over a woman, whom you're probably not serious about, you took to a concert and the 2-for-1 special at Denny's? LOL...i don't feel your pain. once someone stole all my credit cards, but i didn't report it. the thief spends less than my wives did. (credit goes to the late great Henny Youngman)
I really feel for guys who bought a woman some expensive clothes or say plastic surgery and now that woman is using those items to attract and please other men. One of the most comment soundbites I hear from Cougar-types is "look at what my ex-husband bought me" as she shows off her fake tits, lipo, or whatever. Don't be that guy.Cougar-types? what does that mean?
Cougars are older women(40s) who chase after young men.
Katrine
12-01-2007, 11:18 AM
At the time I was freaked. But thinking back she was overweight with serious stretch marks.
FBR
What does her being fat and having stretch marks have to do with it? Because she had them, you were less upset?
mr_punk
12-01-2007, 12:05 PM
Cougars are older women(40s) who chase after young men.<shudder> older women in their 40's? perhaps, there's a benefit to this empowerment thing after all.
What does her being fat and having stretch marks have to do with it? Because she had them, you were less upset?love: a temporary insanity instantly curable by marriage or divorce.
Mastridonicus
12-01-2007, 03:41 PM
I know this thread is quite evolved, however, I hope it's not too late to throw my hat into the the ring of it.
I've been playing with the idea of a thread like this for some time now. A discussion on women, our views and our experiences with them, and quite importantly, a place for eavesdropping pinkies to come and read and perhaps learn how men think.
---
Those books mean more to me in the realm of my political activism and journalistic pursuits, but I think they apply pretty solidly to dating and relationships. In my experience, men are very dishonest with women.
---
When I read the pink side, and especially threads on relationships and dating, I often cringe at the terrible advice the women get.
---
Now, I believe this is the result of those males making calculated decisions to post something "women-friendly" in order to not turn off, or potentially turn ON, the female readers.
You may potentially take offense to this, though I doubt it, but I wanted to say that you do a great job of covering all your bases. You apply such a very detailed explanation of your views that it leaves little desire to dispute any opinion of yours even for just the sake of discussion since you've already explained how you'd judge my counterargument regardless of it's value to me.
As Yoda reacts many times in this thread, in dealing with you in any form, we either have to accept your view and be considered a "Men", or "Most Men"(as you often proclaim (and now in VIDEO! :) )a disclaimer to when you get challenged), or accept a position "below you" in your mind by not conforming to your views.
But, here I am anyway. One (1) Ticket for the Non-Stop to Crazytown please, Delta Male class. (That was a joke, son. A joke.)
Hey, maybe that's just how I see it. Who knows?
So I ask our Blues, post your thoughts on women and especially what advice you might have to the eavesdroppers.
Guerrilla tactics! I like it!
For the first few responses, I would like to ask the question: Are you aware of the semi-underground "Men's Movement" and if so, what are your thoughts on it? Do you agree that marriage is now a bad deal for men?
I'm aware of it. It doesn't really pertain to me, honestly. Believe what you want. however.
Speaking objectively and as a recently divorced man, I would say marriage itself isn't a bad deal. The problem with it is that it's becoming devalued. How do I explain this...hmmm
IMO Current marketing sell the romantic view of the perfect marriage as a single event doing nothing to point out that it is a lifetime commitment. Movies end...at the Wedding...etc etc etc. Men are being sold the image of how happy their women would be if they proposed and married. As a result, Too many look at marriage as a "next step" in a relationship when, it should be a symbolism of the steps you've taken and CONTINUE to take throughout your time together. At best, engagement can be considered a step, since it's proclaiming the same thing that can last forever with no legal repercussions. Marriage isn't the commitment. It's the CELEBRATION of the current commitment's success. If both people attain marriage in that belief, less would fail.
It takes a God to have a marriage, takes an attorney to have a divorce. No need to bore you with the details of my own marriage, suffice to say, I fucked up. I married for her. To make her happy. To see the picture perfect ending I was paying for, because I believed I couldn't do better, and that happiness would eventually come to me if I sacrificed to make all those around me happy. We parted on allegedly good terms until I got served papers.
If you want proof of why 50% of marriages fail, it's because many of them start with altruistic intentions but never weigh in the countless factors that can end in a scorned lover's divorce.
Sorry, didn't mean to ramble.
I also would ask the responders to give a general background on how successful they consider themselves with women. Successful would be whatever you think it is(rewarding long-term relationships for some, numerous sex partners for others, etc).
You would have to frame that in some form of measure that is quantifiable. I suppose I'm successful in that I've been married, divorced, financially demolished, and restarted by a woman and I'm not really bitter about it. *shrug*
And I'm a failure in that I don't know how to answer you, Sh0t, I go out, I have fun. Sometimes I get laid, sometimes I don't. I don't quantify them. I walk through my life without apology, fear or regret, and I do my best to make sure that any bad decision I make affects others negatively for the least amount of time possible. I try to throw in some comedy once in a while too.
The things I quantify as successes and failures have nothing to do with women. I am very happy to be with the woman I am with. And enjoyed each woman I have been with within reason. .
Again, I ramble. Sorry. I will go through this and clean it up.
I would ask this: Do you think the average blue sider or SW male in general is the kind of guy the stripperweb women are looking for? I do not believe so. I think the strip club patronage is in general a big turn off for most of them, as illustrated by the PL tag
I wouldn't. Males are here as something the women here are used to extorting money from. Sure the occasional Stripper Love Story has a mutually happy ending, but not often. So generally, having a blue ribbon only tells the pink ones what their money's previous owner is thinking after he goes home.
On an individual basis though, perhaps. Majority of people here, are here in their relaxed/comfort times where, in person, chemistry can happen between individuals.
So As a generality? No.
As a specific? Perhaps. Even a Yes.
Jenny
12-01-2007, 04:14 PM
well, (1) neither were some of the participants.
And.... what do you think this reveals? That because some of the participants weren't biologists, it gives him additional expertise in biology?
(2) it was a small academic conference sponsored by the National Bureau of Economics Research and not the NOW.
It was a small academic conference on diversifying the field of science and engineering. So again - not sure what you are getting at. Like are you saying that because it was a conference given by the National Bureau of Economic Research, that economics were imbued with a background in biology? Or that it was less ill judged? I don't get it.
(3) they invited and specifically asked him to give a thought provoking speech on the topic.
And that give his speech the weight of a knowledgeable argument backed with expertise... how? Sorry - this is clearly a girl thing. He gave a deliberately inflammatory speech based on knowledge in which he had no expertise. Should he have been wrestled into resigning? I don't know - I mean, I mean it shows a great deal of disrespect and poor judgment; I mean there are legitimate historical and political reasons for believing that Israel is a colonization; it would still be a bad decision to make them at a conference dedicated to Jewish scholarship - especially a conference dedicated to why Jewish people are underrepresented in a given field (although, to my knowledge of course they are not - but if they were). If that is, in fact, the only good speech you could come up with, you would be better served by declining.
true, he gave a disgruntled faction of the faculty all the ammunition they needed to force his resignation and install their own politically correct stooge.Of course she is a stooge without any qualifications besides being politically correct. How else would any woman anywhere get a job, men being inherently better qualified and all?
Jenny
12-01-2007, 04:15 PM
What does her being fat and having stretch marks have to do with it? Because she had them, you were less upset?I THINK he was saying that the guy was sleeping with her to get at him since no man could desire a woman who was overweight and had stretch marks.
Mastridonicus
12-01-2007, 04:22 PM
Women gain a lot from marriage because divorce courts are overwhelmingly in favor of the women. You should check out some of those sites lestat. And lopaw, To say marriage is overwhelmingly bad for women kinda crazy considering he recent history with marraige and divorce???
Well, unfortunately, our society also paints the same women out as victims regardless for the cause of divorce.
Once on the pink side I predicted the previous male posters would change their opinion once Bridgette posted a response and sure enough, that's what happened. Sometimes I don't even think men realize they are doing it.
Humor ensues when men realize the above and then take disagreeing too far.
I don't remember this. Was I involved?
As far as marriage goes, I have to wonder why we have it. A part of me thinks the trend towards monogamy was implemented by "beta males" as way of prohibiting some guys from monopolizing all the women and leaving the other 90% with the scraps.
Take a 10 and 10 society. We can imagine that one guy could impregnant all 10 because he was the clear superior male. Forcing a monogamous situation on them gives the other 9 guys a chance to at least having a chance with one girl a piece, even though cuckoldry and such things will be possible. I don't really think the drive for western-style marriage came from women, since women have rarely had the power to institute such policies anyway.
All this is true, but to some, monogamy isn't a form of entrapment. Though few, some look at monogamy, not as a way to entrap their partner's sexuality, but as a bi-product of an already existing powerful commitment. What it should be.
Monogamy only works when it's a gift. Never when it's an expectation. Expectation is the fence we overlook for greener pastures.
I say most because I actually go and date as a sport, along with helping other men do likewise.
Curiously, wouldn't it suffice to say that even your opinion of "Most" is slightly skewed in a manner that you can't detect? I'm a huge comic nerd, therefor I typically see the world from the views of the people I identify with most and some, soon-to-be obvious points of view where never even SEEN or CONSIDERED prior simply because I was so sure my world view was the only one. Would you say you're susceptible to this at all? (Not challenging your generalities, just curious)
And believe me, it spans all ages. A good chunk of the people we encounter in the community are guys who are coming out of long marriages, well into later ages. 50s, even 60s in some cases. I can't think of any other community that has nearly the same kind of scope on the topic. But leaving that aside, it is STILL not an outrageous claim at all. That men want to get laid is a given. That men lie about their motivations and whatever, well, that's a given, too.
Tell us what are your motivations, your situation with dating, and how you think most men are operating?
I have to admit, when I first discovered this community, it took me a lot of digesting before I decided it wasn't for me. I have too many other things to spend my energies working on other things resulting in leaving the dating aspect of my life to fall together unprovoked and naturally through exploring interests reasonably when and while their present.
^^^I can't argue with that, some people are never happy though.
"Not all people can become happy. Why? Because happiness corrupts people. We adapt to the happiness we obtain once, and pursue even greater happiness. We're greedy. That's why people are able to feel pain as well. If people don't feel sad, they won't know what happiness is. Despite the contradiction." --Nicholas D. Wolfwood
If you marry a woman for the wrong reason and do not keep and open line of communication with her throughout the relationship, poor results are inevitable.
Though the vise versa is also true, the inability to make sure that foundation is cemented into the foundation is the reason why so many fail.
Here is the stereotype I'm deriving from these pathetic no-marriage slobs. They married the first girl that gave him consistent ass and pretended to be a "sweetheart." Ooooh boy, guys sure do love 'em sweet girls. ::) He thought it would last forever and now he's in a pickle. These types of men should never had reproduced at all. 10,000 years ago they would have been a Delta male in the cast, existing only to fight tribal wars, while the leaders got to shag all the women. They would have been the first to be sacrificed to the saber-tooth tigers.
What if there wasn't even consistent ass? Or...just no ass in general? :D Oh I have no qualms accepting what I was. It was so unnatural to me.
With that, I be out.