View Full Version : Getting questioned at bank for making ca$h deposits...
threlayer
12-13-2007, 02:36 PM
Use several banks for different types of accounts, like CD deposits, savings, checking (personal and business), credit card payoffs, mortgage loan pmts, etc. Yeah, I know it's some driving around. Choose some branches not too far from your way home from work. Ostensible and answerable reasons: You don't want to go over FDIC insured limits in any one bank, you shop around for the best account terms.
Katrine
12-13-2007, 07:05 PM
And use different social security numbers at all of them too...just in case! ;)
Roulette
12-13-2007, 10:58 PM
^^^ uhhh..... what?
space_Cadet_28
12-14-2007, 06:57 AM
^^^ uhhh..... what?
sarcasm
VegasPrincess
12-14-2007, 01:57 PM
Thanks Vamp! I didn't know all that. I've had some bad bank teller experiences though, and they have forced me to flip a bitch in the right there in a bank. I'm sure you're an awesome bank teller, or were , but some of them suck ass, just as some strippers suck! LOL
Melonie
12-14-2007, 02:14 PM
And use different social security numbers at all of them too...just in case!
Actually you can apply for a TIN, and then open an account at Bank of America in the hispanic sounding name of your choice. Hey, I say if it works for illegal aliens it should work for citizens too !
PS a 'Matricula Consular' Mexican ID card will cost you around $40 per different name !
Thanks Vamp! I didn't know all that. I've had some bad bank teller experiences though, and they have forced me to flip a bitch in the right there in a bank. I'm sure you're an awesome bank teller, or were , but some of them suck ass, just as some strippers suck! LOL
Your welcome ;D
sun child
12-14-2007, 06:00 PM
If a teller asks where you got all that cash, tell them you robbed a bank :D
just kidding
I only had one girl ask anything. She kind of smirked and said "Where do you work?"
I nonchalantly said "Oh, I don't work."
What can she say after that?
Melonie
12-15-2007, 05:30 AM
I nonchalantly said "Oh, I don't work."
What can she say after that?
She can say (after you leave) boss, I've got a girl here who doesn't have a job but just deposited a big wad of cash. Where are those 'suspicious activity' report forms ?
StuartL
12-15-2007, 06:21 AM
Oh, but deposits of 5 grand or more I believe are reported to the IRS, but if you make two 2500 deposits a day apart they won't be right, Melonie?
In the jargon of anti money laundering, this is known as 'structuring'.
What you girls need to bear in mind is that the big and small drug cartels were massive money launderers through the 90s and the governments had to work hard to shut them down - if they ever did. Now you are just falling into the traps being set for serious criminals.
The major western governments are really hot on this kind of thing - in the main because of US pressure after Sept 11th to crack down on it. The FATF - Financial Action Task Force - now lays down rules and guidelines and 'outs' countries that are non-compliant so that they can be subjected to international political pressure.
I don't want to spoil your fun, but when asked in the bank, an answer like 'I found it' or 'fuck off' really won't be doing you any favours. Can you spell IRS Audit???
I don't know about the US specifics, but the UK specifics are that a bank employee who didn't realise they were involved in a suspicious transaction but should have realised it was suspicious (!!) can be guilty of money laundering with a maximum of 14 years prison time for aiding and abetting! As I recall, they will be prosecuted under the Anti-Terrorism Act!! For working in a bank...
This is serious stuff to big government and you'd be well advised to bank carefully and honestly.
Katrine
12-15-2007, 11:59 AM
I don't know about the US specifics, but the UK specifics are that a bank employee who didn't realise they were involved in a suspicious transaction but should have realised it was suspicious (!!) can be guilty of money laundering with a maximum of 14 years prison time for aiding and abetting! As I recall, they will be prosecuted under the Anti-Terrorism Act!! For working in a bank...
This is serious stuff to big government and you'd be well advised to bank carefully and honestly.
This is correct. Anyone licensed in finance industry has to undergo annual compliance training for this sort of thing. Personally, I am not allowed to accept cash or money orders from clients. If a client brings me an odd some of money to invest, and is shady about where its coming from, I am required to submit a SAR. Fortunately I have never had to do so.
VegasPrincess
12-16-2007, 02:13 AM
I don't want to spoil your fun, but when asked in the bank, an answer like 'I found it' or 'fuck off' really won't be doing you any favours. Can you spell IRS Audit???
.
Sorry, but a bank teller doesn't have the right to ask you where you got the cash you are depositing from. If there was an issue, the manager should either ask directly, or not at all.
StuartL
12-16-2007, 06:21 AM
Sorry, but a bank teller doesn't have the right to ask you where you got the cash you are depositing from. If there was an issue, the manager should either ask directly, or not at all.
If only that were true. Welcome to the big brother world! Not only does the bank teller have the 'right' to ask - in many cases they will be legally required to do so.
It used to be that shady banking was going on in most of the world, but thanks to FATF - which was created by the US - virtually every nation complies with such procedures. And since the US wants this globally, they certainly expect this sort of questioning at 'home'.
Depositing cash in a bank is not criminal. But doing so can lead to you being suspected of and treated like one.
raspberry ice
12-16-2007, 07:53 AM
What happens after an SAR is filed? My bank teller last week was very pleasant about my large deposit and she didn't ask me any questions about the origins of my cash, but as I was leaving I heard her ask another teller where to find the SAR forms. Once the teller files an SAR, what happens? Is this still a bad thing for me even if I am making sure to claim all the money I deposit?
Thanks!
Melonie
12-16-2007, 08:13 AM
Once the teller files an SAR, what happens? Is this still a bad thing for me even if I am making sure to claim all the money I deposit?
I believe that the completed SAR form will wind up going to DHS and IRS in every case, and will be referred to the FBI in certain cases where some additional reason to be suspicious exists. In all likelihood, when the IRS gets a SAR form on a particular person, they will pull up that person's past tax returns + bank transaction reports + whatever else can be had by simply making a basic financial network inquiry (i.e. mortgage and car loans / investments / credit cards / credit rating). Based on how the pieces fit together regarding reported income sources versus bank transactions + loan payments / investment payments / credit card payments, they may decide that everything is legit and drop the matter - or they may decide to investigate further i.e. an Audit.
An IRS Audit will typically happen if past tax returns show a level of reported income that is insufficient to explain how that person is able to come up with X$ per year in bank deposits + investments + mortgage or rent payments + car payments + credit card payments, plus costs of living in their particular zip code area. An audit is also more likely to happen if the person's past tax returns show an 'occupation code' that relates to a 'cash business'. An audit is almost a certainty if the person's past tax returns show 'cash business' income from a 1099 source that is already under IRS investigation / has already been convicted of tax fraud i.e. SCORES (to name just one well known example)
Comparing reported income with actual 'expenditures' is the IRS's biggest tool in stopping tax evasion by people involved in 'cash' businesses. In the old days this used to be confined to high profile cases (like Al Capone) because it required huge investment of IRS agent time to find and compare all of the dollars involved. But with today's financial data networks, an income versus expenditure comparison that took the IRS a dozen agents working for weeks in the 1930's can now be done automatically by IRS computers in a matter of minutes. Also, to aid in the cost of living evaluation, the IRS has already compiled a database of typical costs of living for every US zip code based on BLS / census / real estate / tax return data, so the IRS has a pretty good idea of the general cost of rents + food + utilities + transportation for a particular zip code area if there aren't any specific entries for these items on the financial network.
In the final analysis, if you have been reporting your income and paying taxes on it, and your total savings and expenditures are in line with your official 'after tax' income as shown on past tax returns, then you'll survive an Audit just fine - although it's still a pain in tha a$$.
But if there is some question on the part of the IRS that you may be saving and spending more money than your official 'after tax' income can account for, as a dancer you do have a big vulnerability. That vulnerability comes from the fact that you do not have ironclad documentation in the form of W2 wage reports or 1099 income reports from 'employers' that accounts for every bit of your tip income / miscellaneous income. Because of this, while the IRS can't prove that you actually earned more money than you reported, YOU can't prove that you DIDN'T actually earn the amount of money that the IRS may 'estimate' that you actually earned in order to afford making the expenditures and savings / investments shown by your financial network data. Other factors that may contribute to the IRS 'estimating' a higher income than you reported can be related to 'lifestyle' i.e. the brand of car shown on your car loan records (ex. BMW versus Chevy) , the 'caliber' of stores that your credit card records show that you shop at (ex. Bloomingdales versus WalMart) etc. Thus the IRS is entirely capable of calling
[email protected]!t on your officially reported income, of 'estimating' an actual income level that is 20-30-50% higher than the amount you reported on your tax return, and of sending you a bill for the additional income taxes due on their higher 'estimated' amount of taxable earnings. If that happens, you basically have no way to PROVE that you didn't actually earn the amounts the IRS has 'estimated', and thus will have no option other than to pay the IRS the extra money they claim you owe them.
PS if you are ever audited, do NOT go to the audit wearing designer clothes or carrying a designer purse or wearing an expensive ring or watch !
~
threlayer
12-16-2007, 11:32 AM
Or you could say, it is a gradual return of a large personal loan you made years ago. If they are still suspcious, they can always ask from whom?
alenadowns
12-16-2007, 06:02 PM
Regarding Features from the 90's.....Being from that era...YES, features could and did make that much...and they did not have to do porn.
Contracts ranged from $5-12,000 a week in some locations in Canada and overseas for good feature entertainers. Contract also would include air fare, accommodations, meals, bar tabs and driver services.
Today some features are still paid $10,000 to work a week in Canada..but they are all shipped in from other areas...the max a Canadian Feature can make is $3500-$4000 on a contract...tips and dances are more.
I was audited last year by the CRTC...I will warn you all.....
MAKE SURE YOUR NUMBERS MATCH...everywhere...the bank, the credit cards, the loan payments, mortage/rent, car...etc.
They actually match the numbers and fine you the difference.
Bank tellers have as much right to ask where the money came from as an auditor. Remember it is the bank that reports to the auditors...at least here in Canada.
northy
12-17-2007, 03:20 AM
There was a post in private parties I think where someone said when asked.."I'm a stripper...these are my tips... the greasy stuff is luminescent paint and that white stuff is whipped cream". I told this to 1 of my friends who said she was gonna try that out. Told me a week or so later that it worked a treat with the last bit modified to and that white stuff is whipped cream.... or a cumstain.. I'm not to sure, you should probably wear gloves.
Apparently the teller literally dropped the money she was counting...
I would have paid good money to see that.
raspberry ice
12-17-2007, 05:21 AM
Thank you very much for answering my question, Melonie! You are totally a jewel and a great contributor to these boards. :-)
242_fair
12-17-2007, 10:40 AM
Thanks for putting the fear in me Alena!!
Did the audit come after you had filed your taxes?
Was there some obvious irregularity that got their attention, or do you think it was kinda random?
On my taxes last time I used the code for 'Artist', did you use entertainer or artist?
Regarding Features from the 90's.....Being from that era...YES, features could and did make that much...and they did not have to do porn.
Contracts ranged from $5-12,000 a week in some locations in Canada and overseas for good feature entertainers. Contract also would include air fare, accommodations, meals, bar tabs and driver services.
Today some features are still paid $10,000 to work a week in Canada..but they are all shipped in from other areas...the max a Canadian Feature can make is $3500-$4000 on a contract...tips and dances are more.
I was audited last year by the CRTC...I will warn you all.....
MAKE SURE YOUR NUMBERS MATCH...everywhere...the bank, the credit cards, the loan payments, mortage/rent, car...etc.
They actually match the numbers and fine you the difference.
Bank tellers have as much right to ask where the money came from as an auditor. Remember it is the bank that reports to the auditors...at least here in Canada.
mollyzmoon
12-17-2007, 01:10 PM
^^I said artist. I got a call from Revenue Canada a while ago asking me about my income and where was my T4 (!), but when I said I was an independent contractor, they just said that I put the income in the wrong line, and to put it in a different line next year. They fixed it for me, but the lady on the phone did ask me "what job" I did specifically. I was too afraid to lie straight out to RC, so I said "exotic...dancer". To her credit, she didn't blink (or the verbal equivalent). She just said "Okay, well next year this line".
So glad I paid some four named, big shot accounting firm to do my taxes. Next year I will find someone who knows how to deal with dancers.
(sorry to thread jack...I already posted my experience with snitty tellers).
alenadowns
12-17-2007, 04:14 PM
Used Artist...then was informed to use Contracted Entertainer...similar to molly above.
I have religously filed taxes yearly. I was told it was random...but then I found out later by the auditor that they were assessing a multitude of entertainers.
lestat1
12-17-2007, 08:51 PM
As if someone laundering money or funding Al Qaeda would readily admit to it, especially to a bank teller....just like at the airport "why yes, I did let a terrorist pack my bags, why do you ask?"...
Just say your a bartender or any other cash job.
No, but they might get noticeably flustered, nervous, or act evasive or odd when asked.
I work for a bank, and even though I have nothing to do with being a teller or handling money I still have to take the damned Anti-Money Laundering training every year (can you tell I'm less than thrilled to waste two hours of my time on it?) After Patriot Act legislation here in the U.S. the training has gotten a bit more intense. So from an inside-perspective, I'll add a bit to what Melonie has already explained...
Making periodic, large cash deposits may be suspicious behavior, but is usually common. Until you find out the customer owns their own business (or is a dancer), until you *ask* you have no way of knowing. Then there's no reason to ask anymore. So that's why many of you reported being asked, and then not bothered about it again. The phrase thrown around in our training was "Know Your Customer." They were really big on emphasizing that as the front line of defense against money laundering. Really strict even; even when you do "know your customer" very well, they still insisted upon seeing photo ID for any action requiring it, keeping contact information current, and on and on.
It's nothing about *you* that is making the tellers ask, it's their managers, and their managers' managers, and on up the ladder leading to big brother at the top. Can you imagine the reputation hit and customer fallout if there were a story about a bank being anything less than 100% cooperative and compliant with the government when it comes to money regulations? Yikes! :O
Katrine
12-17-2007, 11:04 PM
Do we all have to watch the same retarded anti-money laundering video or does each company create their own? Actually, I think the training was online this year. In one ear, out the other.....but since I'm not allowed to accept cash, the above issue doesn't matter. I do regularly deal with deposits well over $10K, but they are almost always directly wired from other brokerage houses, banks, company retirement rollover checks, etc....easily traceable by my firm AND the IRS!
Melonie
12-18-2007, 02:50 AM
I was told it was random...but then I found out later by the auditor that they were assessing a multitude of entertainers.
It appears that the tax people in both the US and Canada have figured out that 'entertainers' are a potentially ripe source of additional tax revenue ! In fact the IRS has received a special appropriation from the US congress to set up a new targeted enforcement unit for 'Adult Businesses' ... which under their definition also includes strip clubs and 'strippers'.
As Alena or myself or anybody else who has ever been audited can tell you, where a 'cash business' is concerned half of the battle is having operated your business in a 'professional' manner - which means keeping accurate books on all business activities, which means filing accurate and timely estimated taxes and tax returns etc. If the auditor sees from the state of your business books that you know what you're doing and that you're (relatively) accurate and complete with the entries made in those books, they are quite likely to accept the figures you have reported as being accurate and true numbers. At that point the auditor will work 'with' you in going over any details the auditor wishes to clarify.
However, if your business books are a mess (or there are no business books), and if many of the entries look questionable, then the auditor may begin to doubt the accuracy of any of the entries you have made. This lack of credibility will be compounded if you also were late in filing estimated taxes, late in filing tax returns, made major errors in your tax returns etc. If this happens, then the problem I spoke about earlier re not having any official income reports to prove how much money you DIDN'T earn can start to work against you big time. If the auditor sees enough bizarre stuff in your business books to doubt the credibility of your entries, all of a sudden you become wide open to the auditor assuming that you are cheating on taxes re undeclared income, and may go into 'forensic accounting' mode ... i.e. attempting to piece together your total cash flow, and attempting to 'estimate' the amount of actual income that would be necessary to support that cash flow. If and when this happens, you may wind up with the auditor 'estimating' levels of income that are much higher than those you reported, and the auditor presenting bills for additional taxes due. As I also posted earlier, the auditor can 'estimate' higher levels of actual earnings for at least three years, meaning that the total bill for additional taxes plus penalties plus interest can easily hit the $50k or even $100k ballpark !
Melonie
12-18-2007, 02:50 AM
I was told it was random...but then I found out later by the auditor that they were assessing a multitude of entertainers.
It appears that the tax people in both the US and Canada have figured out that 'entertainers' are a potentially ripe source of additional tax revenue ! In fact the IRS has received a special appropriation from the US congress to set up a new targeted enforcement unit for 'Adult Businesses' ... which under their definition also includes strip clubs and 'strippers'.
As Alena or myself or anybody else who has ever been audited can tell you, where a 'cash business' is concerned half of the battle is having operated your business in a 'professional' manner - which means keeping accurate books on all business activities, which means filing accurate and timely estimated taxes and tax returns etc. If the auditor sees from the state of your business books that you know what you're doing and that you're (relatively) accurate and complete with the entries made in those books, they are quite likely to accept the figures you have reported as being accurate and true numbers. At that point the auditor will work 'with' you in going over any details the auditor wishes to clarify.
However, if your business books are a mess (or there are no business books), and if many of the entries look questionable, then the auditor may begin to doubt the accuracy of any of the entries you have made. This lack of credibility will be compounded if you also were late in filing estimated taxes, late in filing tax returns, made major errors in your tax returns etc. If this happens, then the problem I spoke about earlier re not having any official income reports to prove how much money you DIDN'T earn can start to work against you big time.
If the auditor sees enough bizarre stuff in your business books to doubt the credibility of your entries, all of a sudden you become wide open to the auditor assuming that you are cheating on taxes re undeclared income, and may go into 'forensic accounting' mode ... i.e. attempting to piece together your total cash flow, and attempting to 'estimate' the amount of actual income that would be necessary to support that cash flow. At this point the 'impressions' of the auditor may also come into play, i.e. you're carrying a Coach purse, you drive a Corvette, your credit card shows shopping sprees at Bloomingdales / Tiffany etc.
If and when this happens, you may wind up with the auditor 'estimating' levels of income that are much higher than those you reported, and the auditor presenting bills for additional taxes due, as I posted about earlier. The auditor can also 'estimate' higher levels of actual earnings for at least three years (if you have been dancing for that long), meaning that if you are caught up in this situation the total bill for additional taxes plus penalties plus interest can potentially hit the $50k or even $100k ballpark ! And because you lack official documents ( forms W2 or 1099 in the USA ) to conclusively prove how much money you did and DIDN'T earn, because all of your dancing income numbers are essentially self-generated (meaning that technically you could invent any numbers that you chose to), and because the 'professionalism' thus credibility of your business books was brought into question, any attempt you make to try and mitigate this additional tax bill in court will essentially wind up being your word against the word of an auditor ...
StuartL
12-18-2007, 03:39 AM
Do we all have to watch the same retarded anti-money laundering video or does each company create their own?
In the UK, every firm watches the same film. To be fair, it is years old and massivly outdated. I don't think anyone could identify a money launderer having watched that film.
The film even explains that criminals use multi jurisdictions and products to move their money, but then doesn't explain the what or how. This means that if you watch the film and take it 'as is' every other transaction around the world is suspicious...
Katrine
12-18-2007, 11:17 AM
Is it the film in which the woman money-launderer speaks in Russian, Spanish, and a few other languages? I thought she was so cool, total criminal mastermind, lol!
alenadowns
12-18-2007, 02:17 PM
In Canada they can go back 7 years...and audit up to 5!
I was fortunate they only audited 3.
Melonie is 100% correct. The auditor can tell you that you made 3-4-5X what you claimed...and it is up to YOU to prove that you didnt.
I made the mistake of walking into the auditors office carrying my LV, and dressed respectably expensive..
For those without an accountant....the DayTimer is a dancer's savior...log your pay & dances & tips, along with ALL your expenditures. Or you could end up with paying way more than you bargained, it you cant prove that you didnt make it.
On a side note...gifts from customers are also classified as income. It is a transaction for services rendered. You customer gave you something as a thank you for allowing him to be a customer..It is classified as a tip!
Sad but true:(
Also FYI...IRS and CRTC do have access to these forums. I know this because my auditor presented me with print outs of my postings from this forum and another Canadian one.
Lysondra
12-18-2007, 04:57 PM
Random: I was watching a mafia porn and it had a scene on money laundering. As in, the girls all had money hanging out to dry and were washing it in buckets.
XxAmber89xX
12-21-2007, 11:23 PM
If you ever have to go into the Revenue offices for an audit, you wanna make yourself displeasuringly gross (i know, difficult for us dancers to do) but, I know a guy that soaked his garments (shirts and pants) in beer a few days prior and the night before left them at the gate to his cow pasture... he said he was heaving when he drove downtown to their offices in his $25 car... they expected him to owe them over $2Million so it wasn't no small deal... anyways when he showed up all stinky as stale beer and cow pie, they escorted him to a room in the back and left him alone for over 2 hours... then some guy in a suit told him he is free to go and escorted him into the back alley... i think they thought that was where he belonged...
ya, i know, kinda gross, but it makes me chuckle whenever i think of this story...
i just wanted to say that wearing D&G or LV doesn't quite give you much ammo to say that your innocent and try and prove your case.