View Full Version : Blogging vs. Privacy
Phil-W
01-03-2008, 12:12 PM
...if someone read my blog or my natos and said "I just don't like you writing about me regardless of how indistinguishable I am" I might think they were being unreasonable. But if they emailed and said "Look, other people have identified that as me" I would delete it...
Even if the quote was innocuous? What if you'd posted on the lines of "Mr X (him with the missing 2nd finger) came in again tonight and brought me a couple of drinks - well behaved as ever". Other than the fact he'd gone into an SC there would seem little enough to be worried about concerning his personal conduct.
I don't think you need to be in the realm of legal privilege to legitimately expect that certain interactions are between you and the other party.
A rather different kettle of fish - but where do you draw the line. Lets take my "Mr X" again, and assume he had a dance as well.. Now, you've posted previously that you work in a high contact club, so it's legitimate to infer that Mr X duly had a high contact dance - but that's purely inference. Equally well, I might infer because he's well behaved, he was happy with an air dance.
Comnversely, if you said "certain interactions" in a blog, the last inference I might draw is that they were outside the legal limits for the area.
While agreeing with you in general that a degree of discretion is paramount in blogs and the like, it's also possible to draw wrong or incorrect conclusions from what's written.
Phil.
mr_punk
01-03-2008, 07:36 PM
And no - a strip club is not a confessional. I don't think you need to be in the realm of legal privilege to legitimately expect that certain interactions are between you and the other party.well, everyone can't be the milk of human kindness or the salt of the earth like yourself. but hey, i'm sure comes in handy when you're typing up those NATO.
mr_punk
01-03-2008, 07:42 PM
I easily figured out the girls from my club that were written about for giving extras on aspd. And I didn't even have "backstage" access, or whatever they call it.i hope the customers were as lucky. those sections of ASPD are more like consumer reports than a blog.
However, I can tell you that if a former custy of mine told me to take down and NATO he was in, or else face "outing", that shit would be down faster than Moneywise's first multiple orgasm.i wouldn't. i mean, asking is one thing, but calling someone up and threatening them? oh well, it's a good thing i'm not in the habit of sharing my entire life history with these girls like a besotted PL with his ATF. OTOH, thanks to their nastiness, blabbermouth, etc. if that day should ever come to past. i'll make them fully aware that i have enough ammo to turn them into a No.2 pencil with big tits. bombs away, bitches!
Jenny
01-04-2008, 01:20 AM
well, everyone can't be the milk of human kindness or the salt of the earth like yourself. but hey, i'm sure comes in handy when you're typing up those NATO.
Yeah, I wasn't sure if you meant me or not. I mean the most identifiable feature of the customers in my NATOs are that they are men. I've physically described one guy - I revealed he was bald (and he's seen the NATO and doesn't mind.) I would be shocked if anyone except the customer himself could discern his identity from what I've natoed. And, like I said - if someone did, I would apologize and remove (or ask Jay or FBR to remove). I tend to look at it as "a modicum of human decency" as opposed to "the milk of human kindness" - but either way, yeah, I suppose it is kind of useful. I mean nobody has ever emailed me saying "You fucking bitch! You've invaded my privacy! Everyone can tell you're talking about me in that NATO! Take that shit down RIGHT NOW!" So yeah. It works for me.
mr_punk
01-04-2008, 01:26 PM
Yeah, I wasn't sure if you meant me or not.oh, don't worry about it. you're not the only party nominating themselves for beatification.
I tend to look at it as "a modicum of human decency" as opposed to "the milk of human kindness" - but either way, yeah, I suppose it is kind of useful. I mean nobody has ever emailed me saying "You fucking bitch! You've invaded my privacy! Everyone can tell you're talking about me in that NATO! Take that shit down RIGHT NOW!" So yeah. It works for me.well, aren't you just precious? like i said, whatever works to justify that next NATO. anyway, i suppose i should go back and change that to "a mastermind with a modicum of human decency".
Jenny
01-04-2008, 02:25 PM
well, aren't you just precious? like i said, whatever works to justify that next NATO.
See, I'm sensing sarcasm, but I'm not sure where it is coming from or where it is being directed. Like - yes. To be clear - I think adequately concealing the person's identity "justifies" a blog or NATO or TR. The key word is "adequately". I mean you don't seem to have anything to say about the actual level of privacy, and there is no readily available instance in which I've violated that... so... like I said, I hear sarcasm but I don't understand the sarcasm. Maybe you could elucidate a little more? After all, I am just a stripper and barely literate. Usually when complicated transactions come up customer act it out for me with finger puppets.
anyway, i suppose i should go back and change that to "a mastermind with a modicum of human decency".
Thank you. I would appreciate it.
mr_punk
01-04-2008, 07:19 PM
See, I'm sensing sarcasm, but I'm not sure where it is coming from or where it is being directed.LOL..i told you not to worry about it. so, don't worry about it.
Jenny
01-04-2008, 07:39 PM
LOL..i told you not to worry about it. so, don't worry about it.
Okay Uncle Punk. I'll just sit back and not worry my dizzy, little head about these things. I'll just let the men work out the details.
mr_punk
01-04-2008, 07:56 PM
now, that sounds like a mighty fine idea, St. James.
Phil-W
01-05-2008, 06:55 AM
...To be clear - I think adequately concealing the person's identity "justifies" a blog or NATO or TR. The key word is "adequately"...
Adequately is a nebulous concept.
Sitting over the other side of the Atlantic, I've got zero chance of identifying anyone in any of your NATO's.
Were I to inhabit your club, and see who you took for dances, I'd have a pretty good chance of identifying who you were referring to.
Ditto, the OP - his blogs became a matter of contention when another customer in the club told the dancer in question she was being blogged.
In all probability, no matter how carefully you disguise identities in a blog, some one else in the club you work in (be it another dancer or a customer) can probably have a good shot at identifying who you're referring to.
So in effect any NATO (or Trip Report) is a gamble (long odds I'll agree) that no-one else on SW can make two and two = four.
Phil.
yoda57us
01-05-2008, 08:32 AM
So in effect any NATO (or Trip Report) is a gamble (long odds I'll agree) that no-one else on SW can make two and two = four.
Phil.
True enough, as I have found out the hard way. To me the issue here has more to do with what happens after a someone complains about being written about.
It seems we are divided in to three camps here:
1:Take it down in the interest of protecting some one else's privacy
2:Take it down or risk being "outed" to friends and family by a pissed off stripper
3:Leave it up and let the chips fall where they may
Again, for me it boils down to the same thing it did 61 posts ago: Ego vs. Common Decency...
Jenny
01-05-2008, 08:57 AM
Phil - I think what I exactly said was that nobody from the club could identify who I was writing about based on what I wrote. I suppose it is a gamble - there is a chance that the things he says to me that I write about are habits fairly unique to him, for example. And I suppose if someone were standing there watching the exchange, they could identify who I was talking about - like, the people who were sitting across from the bar in the last NATO would at least know what the guy looked like. However, if that was the case, it's not like the NATO was "outing" him in any case - that is, it gave them no information they didn't already have. Like they might be "oh, I remember that" - but it's not like a name or other external behaviours attaches itself. But no - even someone in my bar could not pick out which customer it was based on the description "this guy" or "this nice looking guy" or "this bald guy" or "this young guy" or "this South Asian guy". I live in an urban centre - there are lots of guys of the young, handsome and south asian variety). So while, as said above, it might always be some gamble - there are some instances in which it is a very, very safe bet (e.g. This Bald Guy came in and...), and some instances in which it is not a safe bet (This Guy with the initials M.F. comes in every Tuesday at 8.10 wearing yellow running shoes and orders....). If it turned out - as has not yet happened - that my very, very safe bet was wrong; that a turn of phrase was a unique habit or some such thing - I would apologize and rectify. This is not a mysterious or difficult position I've taken.
xdamage
01-05-2008, 10:31 AM
Still, there is an argument that basically comes down to people blog like this because it benefits them (i.e., they get some entertainment or ego stroke value out of it) first, and worry about other's privacy second. Basically they gamble that their posts won't be read by the subject of their blogs here.
I think most would agree they would take it down "after the damage is done" (to whatever degree damage is done), but still there is an argument that if they are going to get holier-then-thou about it, that really they should have sought permission to blog about someone else in the first place, not after it is discovered and the subject feels harmed.
p.s. Keep in mind, taking a blog down does not erase it from the memory of previous readers so arguably it is already too late, if that is any real harm was done to the subject.
mr_punk
01-05-2008, 11:00 AM
So in effect any NATO (or Trip Report) is a gamble (long odds I'll agree) that no-one else on SW can make two and two = four.sure. frankly, it doesn't bother me one bit that people post their anecdotal writings. people will talk in one forum or another and in this particular instance. no one is innocent. everyone has done it and will most likely do so again at some point in the future. it is what it is. however, i don't understand where this supreme confidence about the possibility of never getting busted or their acts are somehow also in the best interest of the other party is coming from.
Phil-W
01-05-2008, 11:08 AM
Phil...This is not a mysterious or difficult position I've taken.
I know. I was just enjoying deconstructing your arguements.
(Now where have heard that phrase before? ;) )
Phil.
Jenny
01-05-2008, 02:07 PM
Okay, then. In that case:
You're right. I must refine my position. There is some risk - in fact there is some risk of disadvantage in all human communication. In some cases though, the risk is so minimal as to be effectively non-existent. In other cases the risk is much more substantial. So, I think you should, in the case of blogging about events in which parties have an expectation that their interaction is private and personal in nature keep the risk to the de minimus range.
How is that?
xdamage
01-05-2008, 05:16 PM
Okay, then. In that case:
You're right. I must refine my position. There is some risk - in fact there is some risk of disadvantage in all human communication. In some cases though, the risk is so minimal as to be effectively non-existent. In other cases the risk is much more substantial. So, I think you should, in the case of blogging about events in which parties have an expectation that their interaction is private and personal in nature keep the risk to the de minimus range.
How is that?
Sounds like a weasel-ey lawyer-eeze politician-ato way to avoid saying you blog too about people who probably never agreed to have their private lives disclosed, and who you never asked permission from. Time to step down from Mnt. High.
Phil-W
01-06-2008, 04:01 AM
There is always a risk of the 'blogee' realising they're the individual being talked about.
All you can do it take reasonable precautions against the 'blogee' being identified. In Jenny's case, if she's working in a club full of Asian guys, then referring to 'my Asian customer' would appear to confer a high degree of confidentiality.
I'm currently watching a dancer being blogged about on a UK website, and I know she's going to be seriously unhappy if/when she reads it. She's being referred to by her stage name and there are details about what she permits during PD's.
I find that level of detail pretty distasteful - but then so are some of the guys posting the info.
Phil.
Mimi NY
01-06-2008, 04:13 AM
I blogged about working in a club and changed all the names but got found out and fired. However, writing is my life and now it's my salvation. Just don't take her calls, block her emails and tell her to sod off. She'll stop when she figures she's not getting a reaction from you. It's probably the reaction she wants. If you'd made her identifiable I would have called you a douchebag but you haven't. Sure it may be a period of her life she wants to forget but she has to be strong enough not to read it and recognise it's filtered through someone else's experience.
xdamage
01-06-2008, 10:01 AM
...
All you can do it take reasonable precautions against the 'blogee' being identified...
Not entirely true. You could also decide not to blog at all about some interactions, or seek permission and approval before posting.
Look, I don't personally care if people get a personal thrill or ego stroke or whatever out of blogging, but the attitudes towards the OP were not warranted. Now that we have done a bit of soul searching, we see that a lot of people are guilty of blogging about other's private activities in the club. Everyone takes "reasonable precautions" but the reality remains, they do it for their own thrills, not for the benefit of the blogee. If they really cared about the blogee, they could ask permission first.
And just as a thought experiment, suppose it was common knowledge that the strippers in the club you visit, the one's whose services you pay for were known to be writing up stories on the public Internet. Not only are you paying $20 every 3 minutes, but chances are even your private actions in the club will be made public in some form by the people you are paying. Some kind of sign perhaps:
"Be aware : Dancers in this club may write up stories about what you do inside of our club, and post them on the Internet. They will use 'reasonable precautions' to avoid directly identifying you."
Yea, that would be really good for business I think <sarcasm implied>. I mean paying customers in SCs would love to know before they spent their money inside that they are being blogged about, don't you think?
Jenny
01-06-2008, 10:15 AM
There is always a risk of the 'blogee' realising they're the individual being talked about.
I'm actually less worried about that, than it being apparent to other people the "blogee" knows. I mean - the "blogee" - be it dancer or customer already knows about the event, right? The problem is when other people are being informed.
All you can do it take reasonable precautions against the 'blogee' being identified. In Jenny's case, if she's working in a club full of Asian guys, then referring to 'my Asian customer' would appear to confer a high degree of confidentiality.
Actually - just to be clear - I didn't say "reasonable precaution". Or if I did, I replaced it when I said the risk should be kept to the de minimus range. It's a higher burden than "reasonable precaution." I do, however, understand in sixty's position, how the first, second and third post about this dancer might have adequately obscured her identity and just the gradual layering on of seemingly innocuous information might have changed that. I just think if he wants to keep the blog up he should address that.
mr_punk
01-06-2008, 11:30 AM
I'm currently watching a dancer being blogged about on a UK website, and I know she's going to be seriously unhappy if/when she reads it. She's being referred to by her stage name and there are details about what she permits during PD's.which is why, if at all possible, one should lie when confronted. i've been asked if i heard of ASPD by a few strippers. my stock reply was always,"huh? what that?" combined with a innocent, quizzical facial expression or in the words of the immortal Sergeant Schultz,"I know nothing!,I know nothing!"
She's being referred to by her stage name and there are details about what she permits during PD's.well, as long as they don't mention "where". i have no problem with "who" and "what".
gameover
01-06-2008, 12:07 PM
Jenny, how do you like my new blog? I'm even blushing about what i've written :)
Jenny
01-06-2008, 12:12 PM
I have signatures turned off. If I've found a person's blog it is because they been interesting enough here for me to check their profile to look for a blog.
evan_essence
01-06-2008, 11:49 PM
WTF!? an "ex-stripper" calls him up out of the blue, leaves a threatening message and he hasn't moved on? LOL.Well, yeah. I based that assessment on his act of reconstructing files that had been deleted. I'm assuming that was tedious and time consuming. Obviously not the sign of someone who doesn't care about the past anymore.
why? a man can't change his mind? funny, women do it all the time.Why yes we do! So remember, the next time a stripper tells you she's going to give you a BJ but she changes her mind after you've paid her, think back on your rationalization for that type of reneging.
seriously, he did say he regretted the initial decision. obviously, he wanted to put it back up and he did.Next time I sign a contract or make a promise, I'll remember that. If I regret doing it at some later date, it becomes null and void. Hope my loan officer agrees.
i guess she's going to have to rub some dirt on it and shake it off.Um, apparently not. She can go psycho and launch a vendetta. I think sixty is wise in concluding it's just not worth it, regardless of who's right or wrong. Probably much like you caving to your ex-wives.
-Ev
mr_punk
01-07-2008, 05:59 AM
Well, yeah. I based that assessment on his act of reconstructing files that had been deleted. I'm assuming that was tedious and time consuming. Obviously not the sign of someone who doesn't care about the past anymore.i'm sure it was tedious, but it hardly makes him creepy. she called him up. he didn't call her.
Why yes we do! So remember, the next time a stripper tells you she's going to give you a BJ but she changes her mind after you've paid her, think back on your rationalization for that type of reneging.okay, but i'm not going to call the broad up and demand she owes me a BJ.
Next time I sign a contract or make a promise, I'll remember that. If I regret doing it at some later date, it becomes null and void. Hope my loan officer agrees.what have you been smoking lately? a verbal commitment isn't necessarily a legal contract. otherwise, the stripper who falsely promises customers BJ would end up in small claims court (no pun intended).
Um, apparently not. She can go psycho and launch a vendetta. I think sixty is wise in concluding it's just not worth it, regardless of who's right or wrong. Probably much like you caving to your ex-wives.yeah, that's true. you can't reason with a psycho-bitch.
TheSexKitten
01-07-2008, 03:34 PM
There is always a risk of the 'blogee' realising they're the individual being talked about.
All you can do it take reasonable precautions against the 'blogee' being identified. In Jenny's case, if she's working in a club full of Asian guys, then referring to 'my Asian customer' would appear to confer a high degree of confidentiality.
I'm currently watching a dancer being blogged about on a UK website, and I know she's going to be seriously unhappy if/when she reads it. She's being referred to by her stage name and there are details about what she permits during PD's.
I find that level of detail pretty distasteful - but then so are some of the guys posting the info.
Phil.
Now see... THAT is rude! That would definitely piss me off. However, if my stage name had been changed, and nothing particularly incriminating was said as in "the palest amazon in the club with long brown hair and perky little boobs let me finger her during our best lapdance ever", I would be alright. You know, talking about club convos (I don't say anything personal anyway), my performance on stage, etc.
So yes, I would suck it up and deal as long as the details weren't too explicit, incriminating, or real (stage name).
Bob_Loblaw
01-07-2008, 06:10 PM
There is always a risk of the 'blogee' realising they're the individual being talked about.
All you can do it take reasonable precautions against the 'blogee' being identified. In Jenny's case, if she's working in a club full of Asian guys, then referring to 'my Asian customer' would appear to confer a high degree of confidentiality.
I've been outed! Stop talking about me!
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