Log in

View Full Version : Young female beggar -- why the hell doesn't she think to strip??



Pages : 1 [2]

PhillyDancer1982
01-14-2008, 08:44 AM
I actually think I saw the girl you were speaking about in center city around the same time. Strange. O_o. I can't say I really have an opinion on this. All of it is just speculation, you can either ask her or just walk past. What does it hurt?

A little strange and coincidental, but not too much, since Philly isn't that big of a city(once you know your way around) and the homeless people tend to be "chronic" and well known. I wonder how many other people have noticed this girl and wondered about her...maybe there's info on Phillyblog.com. That site has a thread titled "The homeless that you know of."

AudreyLeigh
01-14-2008, 05:16 PM
Maybe you should stop to talk to her? Maybe say youve noticed her - maybe say you want to do a story about her for school about her? Befriend her and then ask if shes ever considered dancing?

I mean, if you really want to help her and think shes helpable that would be a way to find out (even if it is a white lie)

britt244
01-14-2008, 05:37 PM
Maybe you should stop to talk to her? Maybe say youve noticed her - maybe say you want to do a story about her for school about her? Befriend her and then ask if shes ever considered dancing?

I mean, if you really want to help her and think shes helpable that would be a way to find out (even if it is a white lie)

no offense, but i think that's a horrible idea. strippers dont like being made into a "science project," i know that i, and other girls on this board, dont like when people "research" us and write about it. i would be offended if i were a homeless person and someone said they wanted to do a story about me.

AudreyLeigh
01-14-2008, 05:40 PM
See - theres the difference - it doesnt bother me when people want to "research" me as a dancer because theres 2 things that will/can happen

They are going to write what theyre going to write and it doesnt matter what I say.

They really are interested and take what I say into consideration.

You are very opinionated (and its not a bad thing) and I can see you not wanting to be involved because if the story is not told exactly how you want it to be then youd be POd. Im a bit more mellow when it comes to this type of situation.

britt244
01-14-2008, 05:42 PM
it just gets under my skin bigtime, haha!

PhillyDancer1982
01-15-2008, 09:27 AM
Yes I was actually considering doing something like that later this week, when I have some free time between my two jobs(my full-time day job and the part-time cocktailing job). As I mentioned before, I was thinking of printing out the story I'd seen a few years ago about a homeless girl that started a new(and better) life for herself by stripping.

I feel concerned and sad for the girl if she either doesn't know about stripping, or is morally opposed to it. If she isn't aware of it, it would be good to tell her about it so that hopefully she'll have a fighting chance to make some money for herself in a more secure "work environment" than on the street. If she knows about it but would rather rot on the street than dance, well I pity her for feeling that way. How can one be so self-abusive, to deprive oneself of the physical necessities like shelter, warmth, and a place to sleep??! Besides, sleeping on the streets isn't just uncomfortable, but it puts you at risk for getting arrested for vagrancy/trespassing, resulting in a criminal record that will make it even more difficult to get a job. I know that people out there who think staying on the streets is "better" than dancing DO exist, but they baffle me to no end.

NOTE: I know that some people probably think I'm close-minded or judgmental, but I can't help it. I wasn't exactly given everything on a silver platter growing up. I've been poor, almost to the point of being on the streets(read my posts in the infamous "When I was broke..." thread), so I think I am perfectly suited to speak on the subject. At the time, I was unable to secure a decent-paying job(i.e., something that would provide sufficient income to live off of and pay bills with) and time was quickly running out...I was at the point where essentially I had to choose between becomming a stripper or becomming a homeless person. I chose being a stripper...despite the fact that I'd contemplated it many times before but was hoping that I'd never hit such a low point(financially) that I would have to do it...despite my stage fright, lack of dancing ability, fear of my prudish family finding out, and my self-consciousness about being flat chested. I realized that it would be much better to be able to become financially independent and afford food and a roof over my head, than to be a beggar or a thief or a mooch.

I also noticed that as much of a stigma that society holds against strippers, people treat strippers FAR better than they treat homeless people. If people don't agree with what strippers do, at least they can agree with the strippers for being self-sufficient, being able to pay their bills, keep their children fed and clothed(if the stripper has any kids), etc. You have no idea how much better people treated me when they knew I was a stripper but saw me with an improved life -- new sportscar, having my college degree after paying back the tuition money I'd owed, having my own place, etc. -- than they did when I was working a min wage job, had no car, and was at the mercy of friends' sofas. Seriously.

242_fair
01-15-2008, 02:31 PM
We had this homeless lady here in Toronto, and she seemed to have MS or something because she was always shaking really badly. I mean, it was so pathetic, I gave her money all the time because her suffering was so painful to see.

Well it turned out that she was not homeless, and had no shakey-disease. Someone followed her home and turns out she has a nice apartment and family too.

The city was shocked and a lot of people stopped paying the panhandlers after that.

She was making $2500 per week. thats more than me.

Here it is


Like, sometimes you think you are looking at the victim, but actually you are the victim. Thats how a con works.

Maybe she would not be there if it were not lucrative.

PhillyDancer1982
01-16-2008, 09:26 AM
We had this homeless lady here in Toronto, and she seemed to have MS or something because she was always shaking really badly. I mean, it was so pathetic, I gave her money all the time because her suffering was so painful to see.

Well it turned out that she was not homeless, and had no shakey-disease. Someone followed her home and turns out she has a nice apartment and family too.

The city was shocked and a lot of people stopped paying the panhandlers after that.

She was making $2500 per week. thats more than me.

Here it is


Like, sometimes you think you are looking at the victim, but actually you are the victim. Thats how a con works.

Maybe she would not be there if it were not lucrative.

That is true...there ARE a lot of fake beggars out there. Or people who are legitimately homeless but are too lazy to get a "real" job. That is why I hardly ever give money to beggars. I usually walk by them with a blank face, staring straight ahead, as though I'm an android.

Perhaps the reason she's still there IS because it's possibly lucrative, but to be honest I don't see how great it can really be when all's said and done. Yeah some of them might make $200/day or more if they work the right corners and know how to hustle, but that involves hanging out in the bitter cold weather amongst the filth and potential dangers...to me, that doesn't seem all that lucrative.

Maybe they THINK they have it good, because they make $200-300 in cash, but if they had it better, they wouldn't see it as that "good" anymore. Take my experience with dancing as an example. For example, I used to think that making $150 per shift grinding guys' laps HARD during lapdances and dealing with insulting, dismissive customers at my first club was "lucrative"...then when I moved on to better clubs and made at least twice the money without having to grind so much(which borders on dirty...ugh I feel embarrassed now that I put so much effort into a simple $20 lapdance), I realized that the first club really wasn't all that great and that if anything, I put up with a lot more shit than I should have for not all that much money in the grand scheme of things.

xoxoGracexoxo
01-16-2008, 02:42 PM
Yeah, if I saw a young, female beggar, I would wonder why she doesn't dance. But I wonder that when I see young, pretty girls working at McDonalds, or sacking groceries, or any other low-paying, dead-end job. I just have to accept that while I myself would rather be naked than poor any day, for most people the reverse is true.

But if you really want to get involved, try talking to her one day, and maybe there'll be an opportunity in the conversation to bring up dancing. I wouldn't say you want to write a paper about her or anything like that. I'd think it'd be a lot more friendly and natural to just start a conversation.

Be prepared for her to be at least a little weirded out, though. I can't honestly say how I would have felt, back when I was a destitute young female, if a dancer had approached me and suggested I strip. Probably some combination of flattered, amused, and freaked.

PhillyDancer1982
01-16-2008, 03:32 PM
Yeah, if I saw a young, female beggar, I would wonder why she doesn't dance. But I wonder that when I see young, pretty girls working at McDonalds, or sacking groceries, or any other low-paying, dead-end job. I just have to accept that while I myself would rather be naked than poor any day, for most people the reverse is true.

I agree with you and I can relate to this, considering the bullshit jobs I worked prior to dancing. As someone that's "been there," let me explain the reasons why I was working for min wage instead of dancing at the time, in hopes to give you further insight on what these min wage workers' are probably thinking:

- Before the age of 20, I never thought of stripping as a way to make "big money." It just never crossed my mind and I knew hardly anything about it.
- Me personally, I had stage fright issues, I couldn't dance, and the fact that I was a lousy dancer gave me even more stage fright.
- From age 20 onward, I actually DID contemplate stripping but what held me back for the next 2 yrs(I didn't start until 22) was the fear of parents/family/friends/teachers finding out, or even if they didn't find out, what they would possibly think of me if they knew. As much as I was defiant and rebellious with my parents at times, I still kinda cared what they'd think of me.
- Overall I contemplated the idea of dancing for a while but I was hoping that it would be a "last resort" tactic that I would only have to succomb to if I was truly desperate. I wanted to tell myself that I wasn't at the point of "truly desperate" yet, because that would make me feel better about the crappy life I had. I kept procrastinating by wasting away the days at a min wage job, or jobsearching for a better "regular" job, in hopes that things would eventually get better so that I wouldn't have to resort to my "last resort" tactic.

And alas...I reached the point of financial desperation, and that's when I finally pushed myself to start dancing. It turned out to be a lot more enjoyable and easygoing than I imagined! Within just the first 2 days, I started learning just how untrue a lot of the stereotypes/stigmas about dancing really were.

Perhaps some of these girls need the "push" to start stripping, or they need someone to educate them on the realities of stripping(i.e., refuting the bad stereotypes about it and setting the story straight). Or perhaps they are convinced that their McDonalds stint is very temporary, esp if they're a jobsearching recent graduate hoping to get that "real job" any day now. Or perhaps they don't realize how bad they have it, which they'll never realize until they have something better to compare it to.

NewMoon
01-16-2008, 07:36 PM
There was a point in my life where I was on the brink of homelessness and I can honestly say that I could not have danced at that point in my life. I was already messed up enough and dancing probably would have ruined me. Dealing with basic life necessities was more than I could handle. Not way could I have handled stripping.

For some (such as though who are mentally healthy and facing financial difficulties) stripping was be liberating. For other people (such as people who are mentally ill) I think stripping could be detrimental.

LoveComesFromWithin
01-16-2008, 08:31 PM
Maybe she doesnt feel comfortable taking off her clothes. Just bcause someones poor doesnt mean they should become a stripper. you have to be comfortable doing somehing, if you want to do it.

also, maybe she doesnt have any stripper shoes, one time i was broke and couldnt afford shoe to work in. i had to get a guy to buy them for me.

LoveComesFromWithin
01-16-2008, 08:33 PM
But if you really want to get involved, try talking to her one day, and maybe there'll be an opportunity in the conversation to bring up dancing. I wouldn't say you want to write a paper about her or anything like that. I'd think it'd be a lot more friendly and natural to just start a conversation.

Be prepared for her to be at least a little weirded out, though. I can't honestly say how I would have felt, back when I was a destitute young female, if a dancer had approached me and suggested I strip. Probably some combination of flattered, amused, and freaked.

lol, i would think she worked for a pimp or something. j/k

oohdamnbaby
01-16-2008, 09:25 PM
Yeah, if I saw a young, female beggar, I would wonder why she doesn't dance. But I wonder that when I see young, pretty girls working at McDonalds, or sacking groceries, or any other low-paying, dead-end job. I just have to accept that while I myself would rather be naked than poor any day, for most people the reverse is true.


I think we should be pretty happy that not everybody wants to dance around naked for cash - if every pretty girl danced, nobody would make shit.

LoveComesFromWithin
01-16-2008, 10:20 PM
I think we should be pretty happy that not everybody wants to dance around naked for cash - if every pretty girl danced, nobody would make shit.

lol, i think of that too. i always say to myself " i hope she doesnt figure out about dancing"

PhillyDancer1982
01-17-2008, 07:51 AM
I think we should be pretty happy that not everybody wants to dance around naked for cash - if every pretty girl danced, nobody would make shit.

LOL that IS very true. Extra poor people dancing means extra competition, and we already know that most clubs have too many dancers as it is.

Another thing that "career dancers" can be grateful for, is the fact that most dancers only do it temporarily as a stepping stone before completing college or moving onto another job. A lot of dancers also only do it for a short time because they get burned out or they realize that it isn't something they'd enjoy doing in the long run. These "temp strippers"(as I call them) moving on to other jobs also decreases the amount of girls at a club, which is also beneficial for the ones that want to stay dancing in the long run. :)

xoxoGracexoxo
01-17-2008, 12:50 PM
PD -- Yeah, I also thought about dancing for a long time before I took the plunge. My reasons for hesitating were pretty much the same as yours -- I always figured it would be a last, desperate resort. But while I had many desperate times when I was younger, I didn't actually start dancing until my life was in a relatively stable place. I agree with New Moon, if I had started dancing when I was desperate, alone, and on the verge of homelessness, it probably wouldn't have worked out. Either I would have quit after a week because I couldn't handle the stress or I would have gone completely crazy and become one of *those* girls. Dancing takes a big toll, at least on me. My life has to be pretty together in other respects before I can take on the extra psychological burdens of dancing.

PhillyDancer1982
01-17-2008, 04:32 PM
Maybe I'm just odd/different, but...I found that getting involved with dancing at the WORST point of my life was one of the BEST things to help me get out of a funk. Once I got hired by a club and was given a fighting chance to actually make decent money and a decent living for myself, I became intent on working hard and I even gave up smoking pot for a little bit because I didn't want the club managers to think I was a "druggie." Having the opportunity to work as many hours as I wanted(unlike the bullshit job before it, which scheduled me like 7 hrs/week) and make decent money gave me REASON to be motivated and filter out a lot of the bullshit in my life, such as worrying as much about how much my parents disliked me or how I could find a "piece of ass." Trust me when I say that I had a lottttt of stress in my life at the time but dancing actually helped me.

If anything, I might have been worse off if I'd started dancing when I WASN'T so desperate, because then I would have been more likely to blow my money on "want" items(clothes, eating out, etc) or even drugs. I would have had the mentality of, "Well I already have a roof over my head and a car and credit cards for paying my car insurance and other stuff, so these earnings are spending money!" It was when I NEEDED the money the most for necessities, that I budgeted every penny of my earnings wisely.

PhillyDancer1982
01-17-2008, 04:46 PM
...take on the extra psychological burdens of dancing.

Really? I know that there are some potential psychological burdens that come with dancing, but I experienced a lot more psychological burdens as a "poor person" pre-dancing. Things such as multiple people in diverse situations falsely accusing me of theft or intention to steal. People discrediting my intelligence or work ethic because they saw that I didn't have anything to show for all of my so-called "hard work." People who accused me of being a "liar" when I told them that I'd gone to college on most part scholarship, simply because they couldn't believe that a bright girl would end up in the pits. Having to throw a crying fit and threaten suicide every few days just to shamelessly convince my friend to let me sleep on his sofa during the snowy winter months after my parents kicked me out. Feeling "worthless" because I didn't make enough money to manage my bills. You probably wouldn't believe just HOW MUCH discrimination I received from all sorts of people when I was poor...some of it is too embarrassing to post here.

The effect of no money or career on my overall esteem goes on...All the guys who didn't want to date me or even be acquaintences with me, because they were so turned off by my lack of a meaningful job or financial stability/independence. Ha even a much-younger 17-yr-old recent high school grad boy (I was 21 at the time) mocked my at-time dead-end job! He was interested in hooking up with me until he saw me at my min wage job, which was even less mature of a job than the one he had at an office. You feel pretty freakin worthless when even a barely-out-of-high-school boy looks down at you for your job.

And yeah after I started dancing, there were a few guys that tried to talk me out of it, or STILL discredited my education(I guess they assumed I was uneducated, simply because stripping is a job that doesn't require a degree). But there were also a lot of people that respected me for doing what I had to do (legally) to sufficiently pay my bills and get ahead in life until I could find another job. Or they thought it was "smart" that I was taking advantage of the opportunity to use my youth and looks to make money while I still had both those things.

I could debate this all day...just wanted to bring up my experience and viewpoint.

NewMoon
01-18-2008, 09:03 AM
PhillyDancer- were your poor days plagued with mental illness? I mean, if a person's problems are money then dancer could sure be the solution but if your problems are mental illness, dancing won't help you there. That is where I was.

PhillyDancer1982
01-18-2008, 09:39 AM
PhillyDancer- were your poor days plagued with mental illness? I mean, if a person's problems are money then dancer could sure be the solution but if your problems are mental illness, dancing won't help you there. That is where I was.

Hmmm it's hard to say. I never went to any counselling(except for one time, when I was required to get a psych evaluation as terms of getting off gently from a criminal charge) so I was never officially diagnosed. At the very least I suffered from low self-esteem and depression, most of which was caused and exacerbated greatly by the poverty/bad-job/parents-unhappy-with-me-for-not-having-a-good-job scenario...which is very logical and understandable for someone in that situation to feel so lousy. I also had passive-aggressive disorder and sexual addiction -- these two things combined made me do some very fucked up things, like borderline forcing guys who weren't interested in me to hook up. So yeah, I wasn't "fucked up" enough to the point that I couldn't take care of myself if given the tools, but I wasn't all there either.

In relation to beggars: To be honest, I don't think hardly ANY chronic homeless people are completely sane. How can someone be exposed to the elements, homeless discrimination, street dangers, be deprived of the basics, and stay happy after all those years on the streets? It would be very understandable for someone in that situation to break down or feel depressed and hopeless at the very least. Hells, if someone IS content and stable with being stripped of necessities and basic comforts for so long...I'd start to wonder if maybe they're "crazy" to NOT be affected! But that's just my view. I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me.

xoxoGracexoxo
01-19-2008, 03:36 PM
Really? I know that there are some potential psychological burdens that come with dancing, but I experienced a lot more psychological burdens as a "poor person" pre-dancing.

Well, everybody's different. :) How much toll, and what kind, being poor takes on you vs. dancing...that's an equation everyone has to work out for themselves. When I was at my poorest, I was also chronically depressed. Of course, a lot of what I was depressed about was not having money. I guess I was in a more supportive community, because no one I knew ever gave me any grief about not having money -- nobody I knew really had any money either -- but it was stressful not knowing whether I'd be able to do basic things like eat and pay rent.

If I'd started dancing and been able to make money quickly enough, that might have made me feel better. Honestly, though, I don't think I could handled dancing while seriously depressed. Being an introverted person by nature, dancing calls for a lot of inner reserves that I have now (usually) but didn't have at the time.

PhillyDancer1982
01-20-2008, 10:29 AM
When I was at my poorest, I was also chronically depressed. Of course, a lot of what I was depressed about was not having money. ... If I'd started dancing and been able to make money quickly enough, that might have made me feel better.

See, that's what I'm talking about. When I was depressed about being poor, I knew that the solution wasn't to feel better about being poor...it was to find an opportunity or job that could help me become UN-poor...and dancing showed itself to be the ideal solution for this.


I guess I was in a more supportive community, because no one I knew ever gave me any grief about not having money -- nobody I knew really had any money either -- but it was stressful not knowing whether I'd be able to do basic things like eat and pay rent.

You're lucky that you had a supportive network of friends. You're also lucky that you had friends in the same boat. For me, it was a LOT different. Most of my friends were in the town that I'd gone to high school at and visited during my breaks from college...it was a well-to-do, upper-middle to upper class town. People there were spoiled. They were either given everything by their parents, or else they were given a great job via their parents' or parents' friend's company which allowed them to be able to actually pay rent or a newer car. As a result, my "friends" would either say "stop the bitchin'" because they didn't know what I was stuck going through. The ones that didn't know me that well were the ones that accused me of "lying" when I told them about my college education, or falsely accused me of stealing things I never touched.

I had friends outside my hometown and the equally wealthy town next to it(where I was lucky enough to stay with a friend for a bit of town). Most of these people were in college, and if they weren't spoiled, they were at least lucky enough to have $20/hr internships or jobs as restaurant servers(meanwhile, I wasn't able to get any better than being a server at a low-end fast food cafe or being a low-paid host!). So no, they couldn't relate to me either. They knew that I was smart and more capable of their internships than they were, but they also saw me as the unfortunate girl who, despite trying really hard and being nice and smart, always got passed over for jobs. It was miserable. :( I was tired of being a fuckin' charity case.

bebewood
02-20-2008, 01:05 AM
Some women just don't have it in them, understandably. Not anybody can go into a club, strip, and make it work - thank goodness for that! There could be an assortment of reasons that she's not stripping. As you suggested, she may have been abused which may make it hard for her to resort to a job like dancing. Who knows, she may have even tried out dancing and just wasn't cut out for it.
I agree. I wanted to strip when I was 18 and even walked into a club and started filling out paper work, i happened to walk into apparently a really trashy club owned by some creepy arab guy that also happened to be a sex shop and i got so creeped out and walked out before finishing filling out my application and decided against it. i then decided not to do it because i thought cameras were allowed in strip clubs and my future goals would prohibit me from ever being photographed naked. now that ive researched it more i want to do it though and have lookd up the best clubs for me and plan on auditioning soon, but a lot of people have ideas about clubs that arent true and are scared of them. hell even im scared of grinding against men i dont know or like, which is why im looking for a low contact club. i used to tell myself stripping is not worth it because i can make the same money poker dealing or doing promo work, but dealing and promo modeling are not stable and i usually only work those jobs once a week, and you cant rely on it whereas you can work at a strip club any night, i realize this now. not everyone thinks its worth it.