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xdamage
01-18-2008, 08:17 AM
I read about the irrefutable proof of evolution via reverse engineering of DNA...

True, but ... hmmm... I guess I don't think irrefutable evidence is going to sway the true believers. One can always argue. Besides, the push back for strong evidence is ultimately a good thing for science, but in the end one can always play faith card if they really don't want to believe the evidence.

Hey, at least one of those linked posts is from someone who doesn't believe the world is round. Now this is despite that we can see the moon and sun are round with our eyes. Despite that you can see the curvature of the earth on a clear day from a plane, and despite that we can see ships curve down and away when they sail off into the sea. DESPITE that we have pictures of earth from our space shuttle. Despite all of that, a true believer can always refute via an argument like, "well how do we know the pictures from space are real?" No scientific background is required to play that card.

But really my point was not to argue the truth of science vs religion here.

The point was that I think we should be able to laugh about and comment on the extremism and ignorance expressed in the linked posts without having to walk on egg shells around moderates who find it offensive. It's understood that moderates find it offensive if we laugh and comment. But likewise, the linked comments are very offensive to many of us (well, or at least very scary!). We really aren't the enemy though. We're just saying the truth as we see it. If the moderates have an enemy, it's the extremists and ignorant among them. Something about removing the beam in one's own eye (or among one's own ranks?) first may apply here.

Jenny
01-18-2008, 10:13 AM
Father Gabriele Amorth, who is Pope Benedict XVI's "caster out of demons," told Vatican Radio: "Behind Harry Potter hides the signature of the king of the darkness, the devil."

Clearly explains why we all like it so much.

scarlett_vancouver
01-18-2008, 11:04 AM
There's no irrefutable proof of evolution. It IS a theory. However, it is by FAR the most supported theory out there on the hows and whys of life.

Genomics is doing a pretty good job of backing up evolutionary theory lately though...ignorant/assumptive or not, I truly believe that anyone who doubts evolution just hasn't learned enough about it.

SnakeBabe
01-18-2008, 11:20 AM
I thought there was no irrefutable proof for creation or evolution but a lot of evidence to support both theories.
That is why there are so many “Theistic evolutionists”. That is a Christian that believes God used evolution. My hubby is a big bible thumper; I will have to ask him more about this.
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria

SnakeBabe
01-18-2008, 11:26 AM
The Fact the Earth is Flat is not my opinion, it is a Proved Fact! While all we need to know is that the Bible says the Earth is flat (Is.40:22, Ez.7:2, Dn.2:35; 4:10-11,20, Mt.4:8)...

I wonder why they would use Isaiah 40:22

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth,....

It sounds like it is referring to a round earth to me?

Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria

xdamage
01-18-2008, 11:48 AM
Well, I've talked to moderates who believe that evolution is valid, but that God created the Universe in such a way that creation would happen via Evolution (and 6 days are not 6 earth days, but 6 metaphorical days).

My guess is that given enough generations of people, and further evidence in favor of evolution, something along those lines will be they new think, however that is clearly not what people thought 100 years ago, or at the time of writing. Still, there is plenty of disagreement about the specifics, but given time, adaptations will be made just the way today's moderates have adapted to accept that mental illness does not mean possession by the devil, that the world is not at the center of the Universe, that Heaven is not necessarily a place "up" or hell a place "down" in the earth, etc.

For me the important thing is that 2000 years ago no scientific study was provided as irrefutable proof about what was written, so it's interesting to me when people require it now. But if a person's premise is FAITH first, evidence and proof secondary then I guess that makes sense. However if someone lives by the premise of PROVE it to me first, I would think that they wouldn't accept the creationist story in the bible as anything remotely like valid evidence. Personally, I find the creationists arguments weak, and reactionary, but like I said, disagreement is ultimately a good thing for science, even if some arguments are wrong.

scarlett_vancouver
01-18-2008, 12:38 PM
I thought there was no irrefutable proof for creation or evolution but a lot of evidence to support both theories.
That is why there are so many “Theistic evolutionists”. That is a Christian that believes God used evolution. My hubby is a big bible thumper; I will have to ask him more about this.
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria

Sure- I study science, so I only know that side of it, but I'd love to hear some supporting information for creation (not the bible).

SnakeBabe
01-18-2008, 02:51 PM
...
Genomics is doing a pretty good job of backing up evolutionary theory lately though....

This might be a good read for genomes info
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2006/0419how-low.asp
I think this site has some very interesting answers that don’t overpower you with “believe or your wrong” attitude.
Do a search on any of your favorite evolution subjects, its fun to study both sides. ;D
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria

xdamage
01-18-2008, 09:49 PM
This might be a good read for genomes info
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2006/0419how-low.asp
I think this site has some very interesting answers that don’t overpower you with “believe or your wrong” attitude.
Do a search on any of your favorite evolution subjects, its fun to study both sides. ;D
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria

It seems to me that many creationist theories, including what is presented here, are based on the theory of irreducible complexity which indirectly proves intelligent design if true. The premise is that some biological structures cannot be reduced to simpler forms so could not have evolved from simpler forms, so must have been created by an intelligence.

However if you read these articles 25 years ago (I thought it was a fascinating topic back then when evolution theory was a lot less accepted then it is now), it was more common to see complex structures like the human eye used as examples. Since we now have good theories and evidence showing the human eye evolved along with other complex biological structures, irreducible complexity is being argued for smaller biological structures (e.g., the "minimal gene"). Possibly true, but also possible that it is grasping at ever smaller and smaller straws.

Jesus w/out U
01-19-2008, 08:23 AM
That one hurt my brain for a little while. I don't get how denial of basic scientific, er, stuff makes you a better Christian. Like gravity. Or the earth being round.

Of course I was raised to believe that dinosaurs were a trick from satan, so... (no, I don't believe that now!)


Wow, same here (the dinosaurs from Satan thing). JW? or what?
I thought it was funny how the one refused to capitalize "Satan" even though it's capitalized in the bible. I also find it funny how the other guy thinks the earth is flat, when I was a boy in church (Kingdom Hall) I was taught that the bible supported the round earth idea. But then the JWs are funny with their science, they'll embrace it when it strengthens their argument and denounce it as Satan's work when it goes against their beliefs.

Eric Stoner
01-21-2008, 07:41 AM
There's no irrefutable proof of evolution. It IS a theory. However, it is by FAR the most supported theory out there on the hows and whys of life.

Genomics is doing a pretty good job of backing up evolutionary theory lately though...ignorant/assumptive or not, I truly believe that anyone who doubts evolution just hasn't learned enough about it.

Um. Not really. What started out as "theory" has been continually supported by more and more scientific evidence and in the absence of any other valid, countervailing argument or contrary evidence; evolution has effectively been proven.

What gives me a chuckle ( as a recovering Catholic ) is listening and watching faiths of all kinds try to adapt to evolution. Not willing to defy scientific facts yet desperately clinging to faith in a "sky-god" they now say things like: "evolution was just God's way of creating us; A day to God is like billions of years to us etc.".

BalletBaby
01-21-2008, 07:43 PM
Oh.My.God >:( This is seriously fucked up.

"A woman wants to abort a rape child? She should have thought of that before she walked down that dark alley without a male prescence, not to mention she should have thought before putting on revealing attire.

[Yes. It should (be legal). Otherwise you're screwing over the women who don't deserve their fate.]

Are you calling them victims now? Should've stayed in the house where it's safe."


Because people can't be raped in their own home?::) Morons:banghead:


"If u have sex before marriage then in Gods eyes u are married to that person if a man rapes a woman in Gods eyes they are married it sucks for the girl but what can we do lol"

LOL.... how ignorant....

I love how there is a lol at the end of that ::)(which of course a guy wrote)

I couldn't read any more of that site; I could feel my brain cells imploding.

scarlett_vancouver
01-22-2008, 10:55 AM
Um. Not really. What started out as "theory" has been continually supported by more and more scientific evidence and in the absence of any other valid, countervailing argument or contrary evidence; evolution has effectively been proven.


Evolution is a theory that has not been disproved. But it hasn't been proved. How could it be?

Eric Stoner
01-22-2008, 12:12 PM
Evolution is a theory that has not been disproved. But it hasn't been proved. How could it be?

Because A way of proving something; not the ONLY way; is to eliminate all other possible explanations. Over a century of scientific observation and examination of the fossil record coupled with more recent DNA analyses have established evolution as a proven theory. In over 150 years , nothing has been presented to disprove it.
Creationism and Intelligent Design cannot survive the same sort of scrutiny and analysis.