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Madcap
01-20-2008, 09:00 PM
Who gives a rats ass whether or not someone else views strip clubs as 'sinful.' If you go and fuck around, making less of human beings you are a prick. If you don't but just enjoy yourself and have harmless fun, you are not. Who gets to decide what a sin is and what it isn't even within christianity? That shit's for god to do, if i recall it straight. 10 of those rules, of which only 5 deal with the physical world, do that just fine.

Sides, if i was a christian i'd have to pick and choose, anyway. I like my shrimp too much. Find me a southern baptist that won't eat lobster! (All eating of shellfish is condemned in Leviticus, put on the same level as man on man assplay, both of which are called an "Abomination").

Lunarobverse
01-20-2008, 09:05 PM
Science and religion do not address the same questions, so they are completely compatible. Science answers when and what, religion answers Who and why.

One of my intellectual heroes, Stephen Jay Gould (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Jay_Gould), believed the same thing. Here's an essay by him that discusses that idea. (http://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/gould_noma.html)

If you're wondering why an atheist would point to a theist as an intellectual hero, then realize that I admired Dr. Gould for his reasoning and love of science. And baseball (http://www.nybooks.com/articles/4337). Mostly science, though. His reason and passion for science did not interfere with his personal beliefs, as you can see from the above essay.

Madcap
01-20-2008, 09:07 PM
Gould = Punctuated Equilibrium. Nice...

UtahMike
01-20-2008, 09:13 PM
Who gives a rats ass whether or not someone else views strip clubs as 'sinful.'

The only person whose opinion I care about in this regard is me.

Madcap
01-20-2008, 09:14 PM
GOOD!

maryjade
01-20-2008, 10:07 PM
No. I'm not going to believe in God just because the Bible says so. Science is far more convincing.

Besides, Dubya was elected a second time. That thoroughly convinces me that there is no God.

LOL Great line!

I'm agnostic. Science and evolution definitely explain things more believably than religion, but I can't buy the argument that the universe and life just "happened" by chance. However, I also don't see any evidence of a higher power in the world today. I just don't think we can know the answer.

threlayer
01-21-2008, 11:55 AM
I do believe in God. I don't believe that our bodies, our minds, and souls were created by a big bang. I don't believe that the beauty of nature just popped out of nowhere....

I believe that this is entirely possible; we have learned so much about nature and the universe and how it works, yet there is so much more to understand. But I do not understand where consciousness- that is where our self-understanding - and intelligence comes from.

kitty69
01-21-2008, 12:08 PM
Who gives a rats ass whether or not someone else views strip clubs as 'sinful.' If you go and fuck around, making less of human beings you are a prick. If you don't but just enjoy yourself and have harmless fun, you are not. Who gets to decide what a sin is and what it isn't even within christianity? That shit's for god to do, if i recall it straight. 10 of those rules, of which only 5 deal with the physical world, do that just fine. [Madcap quote]

I kinda agree with this,
I fully respect anybody s right to believe in anything they wish, but I really don't get how something like drinking alcohol can make you a 'bad' person. I worked with a lot of Muslims who for them drink is forbidden and have become more westernized (not sure if that is the right word so apologies if I cause offense) so they do drink. This makes them feel that they are bad. That is their word not mine. So anyway I don't get how something like that can make you a bad person. I drink, but I know that I will go out of my way to do anything for anybody and am not a bad person./:O

kikidejavu
01-21-2008, 12:15 PM
i am very close with god i even believe that he knows i have to strip to pay for school, there may be no scientific proof but i am comforted in knowing that there is always someone watching out for me, plus i figure id rather be safe than sorry later!lol

Eric Stoner
01-21-2008, 12:25 PM
I believe in a higher being; force; power - call it what you will. I went from recovering Catholic to Druid; Reformed. We just worship the sun.

Madcap
01-21-2008, 12:25 PM
plus i figure id rather be safe than sorry later!lol

^^ I was wondering when Pascal's wager would rear it's head.

beautiful.
01-21-2008, 01:31 PM
I don't believe in any god/s.

Svelt
01-21-2008, 01:38 PM
Just for my own curiosity: Has anyone gone from being an atheist to a believer?

Yes.

Church was required as a child, I recall being very skeptical and viewing the whole thing as incredibly hypocritical. It appeared to be merely a social construct to manipulate and enslave people. The more religious a person was the creepier and hypocritical they were. God obviously was a creation of man, he/she/it didn't exist.

In preparation of studying theoretical physics, I studied eastern mysticism to have a more open mind. To lower some of the western mental constructs, to be able to be less judgmental, more accepting. To just observe.

I became a true believer in science, there was no god.

As the years passed, things changed. Small things, unexplainable things, uncertainty at the very core of science made me question. I began delving into philosophy, I came to a personal belief in a combination of logic and the scientific method. The concept of faith began to grow.

I came to a belief in a higher power, something larger and incomprehensible to us. I believe in a personal relationship that is unique to each individual.

Sultry Siren
01-21-2008, 10:25 PM
My family is from Northern Ireland though I was born here in Canada, so you might say my experiences are more than in my previous post on this thread.

In NI politics is as much religion as is language and what flag flies outside your door. Colors are a religion as well "be ye green or be ye orange". It is not as simple as Catholic or Prodestant, Irish or Brit. In short it is complicated and charged.

The political parties there are in essence churches and denominations in and of themselves where political apathy is not as prevalent as it is in North America. The party leaders and the causes they have are the dogma and icon to follow.

The provos are also in a weird way religious orginizations....There are more factions than just the IRA and Loyalist militia.

So for me religion is nothing more than a cause with a leader or leaders. It has nothing to do with faith, or the supernatural. Anything can be a religion.

God and/or the supernatural are seperate entities entirely. That are constantly and consistantly the scape goats for all mankind's bad decisions and f*ck ups. Hell why take responsibility for what you do just blame God and move on.

I guess I just decided to not be Catholic or Prodistant, Republican (not the same as in the US) or Loyalist. I follow God against all "religious rules".

Religion is for the fanatics.

The way I figure is God is NOTHING like we figure Him to be, in fact He just might surprise us all!;)

Joplin
01-22-2008, 09:16 AM
I don't believe in god/s but after my brother died its comforting to tell myself I do. Does that make sense? Like logically I don't, I don't pray or do anything remotely religious but when your pulling life support it's nice to think he is going to heaven.
I know it's b.s. but I don't care, thats where he is to me.

mollyzmoon
01-22-2008, 09:35 AM
No. Just...no. I think belief in anything that isn't falsifiable is kind of up to the believer though. If believing in a god figure is helpful, then by all means...it's just not helpful to me. And it seems harmful in some instances. There might be some omniscient universal force, but there sure isn't any omnibenevolent force that I can buy into. That's where religion loses me.

scarlett_vancouver
01-22-2008, 10:23 AM
Currently, no belief in any god.

Reason: no reason to, no indication of a reason to. I know god-belief is faith-based, but there has to be some preliminary grain of (a) reason, otherwise I might as well just choose the church of the flying spaghetti monster and believe in that fervently.

Note, I am one of those people that has 'premonitions' and predictive dreams n stuff. However, I don't attribute it to anything even remotey godly. More like the wonder of perception, memory, subconscious thought and neural firing mechanisms.

I do think, however, that my beliefs and the beliefs of a 'spiritual' person are pretty damn similar...I just interpret things scientifically where others do so spiritually (so like, the laws of thermodynamics are my commandments, lol).

Sand
01-22-2008, 10:27 AM
Has anyone been both an atheist and a staunch christian ? What made you most happy ?

Alia_of_the_Knife
01-22-2008, 10:27 AM
Wow I came to this thread late due to my busy weekend.

Do I believe in God? Yes and no. I absolutely do not believe in the traditional, anthropomorphic, daddy-sky god of the religions of the book. That makes me an atheist in that sense. I also believe that if there is a God, that God is no entity/being.

But I do believe that there might be some sort of cosmic consciousness, or a gaian mind? Maybe. Yes that sounds new age and hokey as well but it just makes more sense to me. So I guess you could call me a pantheist.

That's what I get from having an agnostic mother and buddhist father.

xdamage
01-22-2008, 10:40 AM
I believe there could be intelligence that is greater than human intelligence, but I am just playing the odds there. A gamble that it is more likely to be true then not if I assume a few things, like sure, given enough time, it could happen, including happening before our theory of the "big bang".

But I think the human notions of a human-centric, earth-centric God with a human-centric "purpose" is egotistical.

I also think human questions like "who created the universe", and "what is the purpose of life" are silly the way it is silly to ask "what is under the earth?" (based on the false assumption that the world needs holding up like a big rock). We learn more and more that just because a question is so simple a kid can ask it does not mean that the question is actually a valid question. Sometimes the answer is BZZZT... the question is meaningless because it is based on false assumptions/beliefs.

I lean more towards atheism, but I also don't care enough to be a die-hard atheist either. Basically it is like to proving that there are no Universes outside our own. Some also argue that, but it is unprovable either way so I don't care.

Alia_of_the_Knife
01-22-2008, 10:51 AM
I believe there could be intelligence that is greater than human intelligence, but I am just playing the odds there. A gamble that it is more likely to be true then not if I assume a few things, like sure, given enough time, it could happen, including happening before our theory of the "big bang".

But I think the human notions of a human-centric, earth-centric God with a human-centric "purpose" is egotistical.

I also think human questions like "who created the universe", and "what is the purpose of life" are silly the way it is silly to ask "what is under the earth?" (based on the false assumption that the world needs holding up like a big rock). We learn more and more that just because a question is so simple a kid can ask it does not mean that the question is actually a valid question. Sometimes the answer is BZZZT... the question is meaningless because it is based on false assumptions/beliefs.

I lean more towards atheism, but I also don't care enough to be a die-hard atheist either. Basically it is like to proving that there are no Universes outside our own. Some also argue that, but it is unprovable either way so I don't care.

That's kind of how I feel. I believe there may be a dimension or consciousness which is infinitely greater than ours but either way we are still human. Concepts such as the "meaning to life" are very human based and doesn't make any logical sense hence it is rendered null. The smartest of us would have no way of contemplating it and in the end it doesn't really matter. Even if there is something that could be hypothetically defined as "G-d" I don't ascribe anthromorphic ascriptions to it so the idea of worshipping it (ie stroking it's ego) or asking questions of life after death and meaning to life don't really mean anything. That is why in the strictest sense I am kind of atheist myself but I have other reasons (that would take to long to get into now) why I am pantheist.

xdamage
01-22-2008, 04:06 PM
...Concepts such as the "meaning to life" are very human based and doesn't make any logical sense hence it is rendered null. The smartest of us would have no way of contemplating it and in the end it doesn't really matter. ....

I agree completely. Well put.

beautiful.
01-23-2008, 12:32 PM
I wanted to add that I was basically an agnostic growing up and never really gave it much more thought. My husband was a preacher's son and raised in a very strict Christian household. He listened to a book on tape one time called "A short history of nearly everything" by Bill Bryson (I think) and is now an atheist. While my husband was doing more research on his religious beliefs, I decided to get in on it too and I am now an atheist. He'd be a very good person to talk to if anybody is interested in it, I can give you his myspace address or something :)

scarlett_vancouver
01-23-2008, 12:44 PM
^ It's funny how little things can knock longtime believers into the world of heretics, lol. My friend (a smart girl) renounced Christianity on day 1 of Philosophy 101. It was just like...she'd never actually considered justifying religion before.


Concepts such as the "meaning to life" are very human based and doesn't make any logical sense hence it is rendered null. The smartest of us would have no way of contemplating it and in the end it doesn't really matter.

I also agree with this wholeheartedly.

Blade
01-23-2008, 03:10 PM
I am my own God. I believe in the power of humanity, and the power to control your own reality. Satan is a very good representation of all that is human, so I identify as a . We believe in Sin as being more positive than "virtue/abstinence", which goes against our natural human feelings and functions. I also like to take responsibility for my own actions.
As far as "God" existing in the Christian sense, I think that such a thing can exist in people's imaginations. I believe the Bible is a fictional story or collection of stories, and I think it's absolutely ridiculous to base your life on a book because other people have put it in your head that this is what you are "supposed" to do. "God" is a behavioral tool for people who can't think for themselves, IMO.
I've read the satanic bible and have to admit that as much as I dont want to identify with ANY organized religion, Levay's satanism seems to be the one religion I can grasp and understand.

Lunarobverse
01-23-2008, 03:16 PM
I wanted to add that I was basically an agnostic growing up and never really gave it much more thought. My husband was a preacher's son and raised in a very strict Christian household. He listened to a book on tape one time called "A short history of nearly everything" by Bill Bryson (I think) and is now an atheist. While my husband was doing more research on his religious beliefs, I decided to get in on it too and I am now an atheist. He'd be a very good person to talk to if anybody is interested in it, I can give you his myspace address or something :)

Thank you for that book recommendation (http://www.powells.com/biblio?isbn=9780767908184), beautiful!

AlexxaHex
01-23-2008, 11:35 PM
I've read the satanic bible and have to admit that as much as I dont want to identify with ANY organized religion, Levay's satanism seems to be the one religion I can grasp and understand.

Satanism isn't really a religion! That's part of the beauty of it.

StarryEyes
01-24-2008, 12:24 AM
I think believing in God and believing in religion are two different things.

I believe in God, but I am not part of any organized religion.

I do go to church, but I just sorta wander in there alone and pray. Like a one-on-one conversation. And I meditate too.

lestat1
01-24-2008, 12:38 AM
I can't believe in a God and only attribute "good stuff" to him/her. I also have to attribute "bad stuff" to him/her. All-powerful and all-knowing is all-powerful and all-knowing. No cheating on credit/blame; you get both or neither if you have omnipotence.

This poses a problem for me. My life: some good stuff, some bad stuff, but more bad than good. If I could go back in time and choose not to be born, I think I would choose to not be born. So if God is real, then he/she gets both credit for the good in my life, and blame for the bad in my life. If God is real, I don't like God.

That also poses a problem for me, for God is good. If I don't like God, then something is wrong with me, and/or I am evil. I don't want to be evil. It is easier to not believe in God than to accept being an evil person. So I don't believe.

The problem with the above is that it is a logical assessment, and religion and God have never thrived on logic, but on faith (i.e. it's okay that I've suffered, God has a plan). Also, I am biased. There are too many things in the bible (I was raised Lutheran, so by: "believing in God" I'm going to have to go the Christian route since it's what I know, although I recognize it is but one of many faiths) that completely piss me off. The story of Job for example. What was the point of that? God fucks with some man's life to prove a point to the Devil? Why? Fuck the Devil, who gives a shit what he thinks. The Devil won that little debate, as he got God to torture an innocent man. Dumbass.

And yet, I love Christmas and everything about it. Go figure.

xdamage
01-24-2008, 08:34 AM
...The story of Job for example. What was the point of that? God fucks with some man's life to prove a point to the Devil? Why? Fuck the Devil, who gives a shit what he thinks. The Devil won that little debate, as he got God to torture an innocent man. Dumbass....

Sort of like throwing an animal into the ring and torturing it over a $1 bet. Hmmm... kind of like the petty minded thing a human might do, oblivious to the suffering of the animal, DON'T CALL ME CHICKEN, You Are On!

But I guess it couldn't be that a human wrote that story or that it reflects anything about the human nature of the writer. ::)

Ferret
01-24-2008, 02:46 PM
Faith in nothing requires proof too.

I choose for God ...

even though one could travel 25,000 years at the speed of light, which is 186,000 miles per second, before reaching the center of our own Galaxy; and the Milky Way galaxy is but one of countless galaxies.

Big Place.

I'm going to stake a claim to a galaxy one day ... Carl Galaxy...ahh.... has a nice ring to it doesn't it?

I think God will let me have it. I might have to arm wrestle for it tho.

Lunarobverse
01-24-2008, 04:47 PM
Faith in nothing requires proof too.

I choose for God ...

That's funny, whenever I ask someone who has faith to even demonstrate that there's something, even if they can't prove it... they just say they take it on faith.

If you ever meet someone who has "faith in nothing" could you send them my way afterward? I'd have so many questions for them. F'rinstance, what kind of proof would even be possible to ask for...?

But I have a feeling no such person exists. Alas.

michele_b
01-24-2008, 04:59 PM
I had a dream last night unlike any dream I have ever had and I don't know why. I thought I would post it on here.

I can't even remember everything that went on in the dream, but it had a meaning. It was a dream of God speaking to me through the bible in some way. I think it was his voice, but he was putting it in bible texts that I haven't read or seen before about his existence. I can't remember the exact words but I know it was something from him.

Not causing controversy, just saying what I believe and what faith can do.

Xiomara
01-24-2008, 05:05 PM
No.I dont know why.I just dont.And probably never will.

jaizaine
01-24-2008, 08:29 PM
Yes I do. I don't go to church as I don't believe there needs to be any formal setting such as a church to worship god. I think it's a personal thing.

Mily
01-24-2008, 09:33 PM
I think believing in God and believing in religion are two different things.

I believe in God, but I am not part of any organized religion.


Those are my beliefs as well. I just consider myself to be very spiritual, and I have my own personal relationship with God. :)

lestat1
01-24-2008, 10:13 PM
Sort of like throwing an animal into the ring and torturing it over a $1 bet. Hmmm... kind of like the petty minded thing a human might do, oblivious to the suffering of the animal, DON'T CALL ME CHICKEN, You Are On!

But I guess it couldn't be that a human wrote that story or that it reflects anything about the human nature of the writer. ::)

I've never heard that explanation before. It seems...subtle. Far too subtle for its intended target audience of the general population of 2,000 years ago. I could see that story with that meaning being written today, but not 2,000 years ago.

RoseLeigh
01-24-2008, 10:39 PM
I believe in a lot of gods. And a lot of science.

Jesus w/out U
01-25-2008, 09:20 AM
This is such a great thread, I've thoroughly enjoyed reading it. My beliefs have changed throughout the years. At first I was a Jehovah's Witness due to my upbringing and believing what I was told, although looking back I feel I never really believed in that story, just that I had to or else kind of thing. Later as I came of age I really began to see the religion as control based and their depiction of God as deplorable, I became an atheist at the time separating science (as truth) from religion/faith/spirituality (falsehood). I looked into a few different religions, Wicca and others and ended up finding Satanism (LaVeyan) which just resonated with me the most, much in the way that Alexxa describes. I really thought I had found my niche within Satanism, and I had for awhile, and it was who I was at the time. My thirst for knowledge however drove me to explore more things and my life experiences have nearly forced me to keep an open mind, ultimately I'm just too "spiritual" for the confines of Satanism. Not to bash it in any way, I feel it was a great thing and helped advance me, but now I feel "graduated" and the need to move on. Now-a-days I believe in God, Cosmic Mind, etc. as a loving creator. I also believe in evolution and the Big Bang, which in my eyes is the Alpha. I think "God" is love and therefore is active in the dynamic creation. Like Teeth of the Hydra was saying about the song bird, you have to be still and "tune in" to the right frequency (love). I think we are gods and extensions of God. Many people say that there is no loving Creator because of the misery we live in, but I argue that when you love someone you let them go, you don't control them, you give them freedom of choice; without that love would be selfish and then not really love at all. So we are given freedom of choice out of love, they say that Hell is the furthest point one can get from God, and yes I do think a lot of people on this earth are in Hell. I'm very glad for discussions like this as more people can share ideas and maybe reevaluate their ideas rather than taking sides, neither side in the science vs. religion debate is right and neither is completely wrong; there are truths to be had from each.

To continue my babble, I'd like to state that I once disbelieved in Karma as I thought it was supposed to be some blind cosmic force that doled out justice, but now I know better. Karma is what you hold on to. So, what are you holding onto?

As for why I believe as I do it's a combination of what I've read into (like the Science of Chaos, quantum physics and various spiritually based books) my personal experiences, the truths I've uncovered or levels of understanding I've reached and the reasoning I've figured from these. My strongest personal experience was a moment when I felt very thankful for my baby. I thanked within my heart the creator, or God, whatever for my child and got a very clear message back (not so much in words, more in a distinct feeling), "You can thank me by loving your child."

Bella21
01-25-2008, 11:43 AM
Wow, when I saw the title of this thread and that it was 6 pages long, I was ready to get my popcorn and enjoy the flame-fest. I'm impressed. :)

I am very much an athiest. Other than conversations with my friends (well, the ones who are also athiests), I try not to talk about it because I know that it's offensive. But, since it seems to be the topic of the thread...

I've read the Bible, I've been brought up as a Jehovah's Witness. I think it's a disgusting book. It glorifies rape, murder, and human sacrifice and I don't understand how people think that they get their morals from something like that simply because it also tells you not to steal things and love everyone in addition to all of that violence. Here's a link to an article on morals that I found interesting (I think that it was already established that I love evolutionary psychology, lol).
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/magazine/13Psychology-t.html?_r=2&em&ex=1200546000&en=61b714508a224f25&ei=5087%0A&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
*Warning: Possibly the longest article in the history of mankind*

As for the "but what if you're wrong" questions that I get a lot... I think people forget that their Christian god is just one of many gods and it is by pure circumstance that they happened to be raised (obviously this doesn't apply to everyone on this forum since there is such diversity. I'm really just talking about people who say this to me in real life) to believe in this god. If they had been born in ancient Greece, they would be asking the same question about Zeus instead... and then I remind them that they may be wrong about the Flying Spaghetti Monster. :)

PhillyDancer1982
01-25-2008, 04:26 PM
Yes I believe in God, although I tend to hold a more general, liberal view than traditional Christians. For example, I don't follow every single thing that the Episcopal branch of Christianity teaches...I look at the big picture, the overall underlying concepts and theories...things like being good to people, helping out the disadvantaged, etc. (I do know I have a lot of work still to do on becomming a "good person"! :-\ ) I also believe that most of the world's most popular religions(Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc) have a lot of the same underlying concepts. I try to hold an openminded view with religion. I believe that a lot of religion is up to our individual interpretation.

It is true that you cannot explain God or the heavens with current day science, but then again, there's a LOT of things that our current science cannot yet explain. It's easy for us to think that we're so "high tech" and "advanced" with science, but then again, I'm sure people back in the mid 1900s thought they were high tech when they created the first computer. There's a LOT of things that are still left unexplained...and will be for a long time. Why doubt the possibility of something very good, just because it cannot be scientifically proven? Also, how else can we explain how the universe came to be? Sure there's the Big Bang Theory but...what started that?...and what started that?...etc? There are so many aspects of the huge universe that our 3-D minds cannot possibly begin to grapple...so why exclude the possibility of a God?

As far as the Bible stories goes, here is my take(I hope I don't offend anyone). I think they are symbolic to represent a larger concept. E.g., Eve biting into the apple, signifying betrayal or a loss of innocence. In my opinion, a lot of the "fictional sounding" Bible stories were written with the same purpose that many of Aesop's Fables were: to present an important moral/lesson to children in a way that is interesting and easy to comprehend...which I think is an excellent way to get a point or moral across. I also think that a lot of the Bible stories is up to individual interpretation and our own specific beliefs. Furthermore, I think that we should keep in mind that the Bible was written and rewritten by PEOPLE over many generations...which can allow for loss in translation, the peoples' own interpretations mixed in, or maybe even people adding things to it for the sake of controlling the population(e.g., back in the day when church and gov't were not separate).


I could believe in a deist God. The idea behind deism is that God created the universe, set it in motion, and then sat back to let everything happen as it will. I could understand this type of God existing because then you don't have to justify the big questions like why bad things happen to good people. The intervening God of the old and new testament just can't be reconciled with the horrible things like the Holocaust that have happened throughout history.

I also look at it this way: Perhaps we DO live in a deist world, in which God created but does not appear in. Think of it a little bit like a reality TV show(e.g., Survivor), in which the people have to find their way and survive, but there's little to no interaction/help from the audience watching it. Perhaps God wants to see what we are capable of doing with what we're given, how we eventually(over the course of life experiences) decide to live our lives and conduct ourselves, and how our beliefs shape up in the end. As for making his presence known and provable, that would be too simple; If Jesus made routine appearances on Earth and blatant miracles occured on a regular basis, then almost EVERYBODY would believe by default...simply because they see it in front of them(the whole "seeing is believing" thing). Then God would not be able to separate the people who truly believed and had faith despite all odds, from the people that simply chose to believe because they had "proof." Perhaps God's absence from blatantly, discretly showing up on Earth is to identify who the true believers are.

Sometimes one has to accept that there isn't a definite answer to explain something(or contradict something), so it's all up to faith...and in this case, it definitely doesn't hurt to have faith.

I was raised Episcopal Christian while growing up, but my family wasn't that strong with our faith. Later on, my mom became very openly (rather annoyingly, obnoxiously) athiest, doing things like spurring on debates with my brother's born-again-Christian track coach LOL(but luckily she started believing again not long before she passed away). I never lost faith or became athiest, but there were many years where my family didn't go to church or discuss anything about religion. I didn't start really praying and thinking about it until around the time that my mom was dying. I found that having faith helped me in some ways through the horrible experience known as my mom's death, and then my ex's death later that same year. I try to go to the church that I used to attend with my extended family as a small child, whenever I can(it's hard to wake up early enough though, esp with my brutal work schedule!)...I also try to bring my friend M--k along to church with me, since I think that perhaps him having a little more faith might help him to have a little more confidence(until recently, he was convinced that God hated him just like everybody else hates him, as sad as that is :().


I have squeezed out of so many predicaments, I feel like Someone's watching out for me- I'm just not sure WHY! (?)

I can relate to this a LOT!

PhillyDancer1982
01-25-2008, 04:34 PM
Those are my beliefs as well. I just consider myself to be very spiritual, and I have my own personal relationship with God. :)

Yeah that is kinda how I am. I do go to church on occasion though, but not because I feel that I NEED to go to church to be a believer, and not because I follow every single thing taught by the Episcopal church to a "T." The reason I go to church is more to remind me to get thinking about my faith and to pray. I also go to my church because it reminds me of my early childhood(I used to go to this church with my family and extended family from infanthood up until I was about 10), which is a comfort zone for me.

Katrine
01-25-2008, 04:38 PM
I do go to church, but I just sorta wander in there alone and pray. Like a one-on-one conversation. And I meditate too.

When I travel, I love going into very old churches with beautiful architecture. I am often overwhelmed by the history and design. I do pray to the sky, and light a candle for my deceased relatives. But that's more of an emotional release, I still think when we're dead, we are done.

PhillyDancer1982
01-25-2008, 04:46 PM
When I travel, I love going into very old churches with beautiful architecture. I am often overwhelmed by the history and design. I do pray to the sky, and light a candle for my deceased relatives. But that's more of an emotional release, I still think when we're dead, we are done.

Although my ideas about the "afterlife" might differ from yours, Katrine, I can relate to the part about exploring churches and enjoying their elaborate, beautiful architecture and history. At my first club, there were two gorgeous old churches on the same block...one was Catholic and the other was Protestant. Both of them are large, old, and in spectacular condition.

naughty_princess
01-25-2008, 04:55 PM
I consider myself an atheist/buddhist. I was raised Christian but found that it went against my logic and experience

Albert Einstien:
"Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: it transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural & spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity"

BalletBaby
01-25-2008, 09:25 PM
Yes, but I don't go to church, unless it's a holiday and I'm with family. I don't like church. It feels isolating to me. I just don't understand how listening to someone read from the bible is supposed to connect me with God?

cameron_keys
01-25-2008, 09:52 PM
I believe there is a higher power out there. Whether that power is god, allah, fate...call it what you will. Humans are NOT the be all and end all of power in the universe...we CANT be. This life CANT be as good as it gets..please tell me it isnt.

But I am not arrogant enough to think for a second I know anything about such a power, no less what it thinks or wants,which I feel is the main problem with most organized religions.Arrogance.

I "pray" by sending out thoughts as to what I want or need..or to ask for help or to say thanks for whats happened to me. But I dont assign a name or deity to those thoughts.

i.breathe.in
01-26-2008, 01:36 PM
i believe in god and pray to god. he has helped me with a lot of shit. i can call him whatever i want and so can you but he/she/it is the same thing. i also think that you can compartmentalize parts of god for your worship if you like but its just pieces of a whole... (ie wicca)

i grew up with the word god so that is what i use. i wish i was closer to him and i do my best to believe. i try to be a good person and do things with good concience but for me it is a struggle.

as far as heaven and hell, i think there is a oneness with god and all that but no hell. i think we have to keep coming back till we get it so to speak.

jesus, i dont know...i still have hard time believing that one....along with the bible.

lwtex52
01-26-2008, 08:25 PM
I not only believe in God, but I found Jesus. He was with Elvis the whole time.

AlexxaHex
01-26-2008, 10:14 PM
Really? Because Jesus was my neighbor when I lived in SoCal.