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FBR
03-12-2008, 07:48 PM
Apparently the gov of NY thought she was worth it but I dunno. Miss D is better looking and now I feel like a cheap ass because I can only pay hundreds instead of thousands.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080313/ap_on_re_us/spitzer_call_girl

Would you guys P4P for this lady at that rate? Seems to me the NY governor gave the finger to the POP index.

FBR

hockeybobby
03-12-2008, 08:04 PM
Apparently the gov of NY thought she was worth it but I dunno. Miss D is better looking and now I feel like a cheap ass because I can only pay hundreds instead of thousands.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080313/ap_on_re_us/spitzer_call_girl

Would you guys P4P for this lady at that rate? Seems to me the NY governor gave the finger to the POP index.

FBR

Haha...only if she painted my house too. But seriously, that's beyond my budget for *ahem* entertainment.
hb

mr_punk
03-12-2008, 08:49 PM
Would you guys P4P for this lady at that rate? Seems to me the NY governor gave the finger to the POP index.no, but it's not about value, FBR. unsurprisingly, according to various articles. she isn't even remotely close to being "a well-traveled model from a very selective college with a MBA and speaks seven languages" as she is tarted-up to be on these types of websites (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0306082emperor2.html). but hey, that isn't the point. it's about the marketing of cachet and youth. it's the same way auto companies market expensive sport or luxury cars which spend half their time in the shop.

anyway, in light of this rash of politicians getting caught with their zippers down. i don't get it. i mean, they raise millions of dollars for their campaign. many, like Spitzer, are independently wealthy or wealthy enough to spend their own money to run for election. obviously, they have feet of clay just like everyone else. why can't they spend a fraction of that money to hire a guy to handle bimbo eruptions? you know, like in the movie "Michael Clayton". a guy who does nothing, but prevent or manage this kind of thing. this whole thing could have been avoided if Spitzer had a middle man with a briefcase full of cash.

FBR
03-12-2008, 09:18 PM
^^ Good point Mr P. I do the 007 thing all the time in an effort to stay under the radar. You would think that a high profile person with an ass load of money such as the governor could hire a bag man.

I am a man of modest means. But if I was wealthy...I mean really wealthy...or had a cache of campaign funds...would I be willing to pay 4 large for top of the line pussy? I mean pussy that most guys could only dream of in terms of looks etc.

FBR

423texas
03-12-2008, 09:28 PM
When I was in the pussy buying mode, I purchased some A-1 primo stuff that I would rate much higher than Ashley/Kristen. And for a whole lot less.

But, then I'm in Houston, Tx. where prices are a lot cheaper than NYC, and I'm a lot more price conscious (and poorer) than the former Gov. Spitzer.

Buying pussy is like buying Art. The seller can ask what they want but the market will determine the price.

xdamage
03-12-2008, 09:30 PM
I guess if he was paying 4 large for a "guarantee" of privacy and discretion there is some sense to it. Other then that... so far the pics I have seen of his ?date? are fine, but not remotely worth spending that kind of money just to have sex. Then again, maybe we have it all wrong, and he was paying that much to talk with a girl who has a charming personality???





(hahaha - nah, never mind that last thought).

FBR
03-12-2008, 09:34 PM
Then again, maybe we have it all wrong, and he was paying that much to talk with a girl who has a charming personality???

(hahaha - nah, never mind that last thought).

LOL X, that sound strangely like pay for conversation LOL

FBR

lestat1
03-12-2008, 09:38 PM
$4K seems steep. I'd need to be rich before I could afford that price, but then if I were rich and could afford that price I'd pay $4k for something a lot better.

FBR
03-12-2008, 09:40 PM
When I was in the pussy buying mode, I purchased some A-1 primo stuff that I would rate much higher than Ashley/Kristen. And for a whole lot less.



423tex, well maybe but trying to walk in his shoes, he isnt that studly and his wife isn't a looker. He had a lot money in his campaign funds. I suppose it was very tempting. I mean, if I were in his position I would have considered it but I would have been way more stealthy.

FBR

Bob_Loblaw
03-12-2008, 09:49 PM
4 grand for an "aspiring musician?" Not a chance. She'd have to be at least a 'B' list star before I'd think about it.

423texas
03-12-2008, 09:50 PM
423tex, well maybe but trying to walk in his shoes, he isnt that studly and his wife isn't a looker. He had a lot money in his campaign funds. I suppose it was very tempting. I mean, if I were in his position I would have considered it but I would have been way more stealthy.

FBR

Agreed.

His Dad is worth $500,000,000, so money is not that important.

If anything he might have paid even more and been more discreet.

Tonight on Larry King there was an ex-escort that was talking about private madames. I'm not quite sure what that is but I have an idea that it is set up for wealthy and prominent people.

A lot of the TV guys are saying that Spitzer had a sort of death wish and wanted to get caught. Makes sense. What if one of the escorts recognized him as the Governor (very possible), and wanted to use it against him?

Jenny
03-12-2008, 11:12 PM
I think she's pretty.

xdamage
03-12-2008, 11:43 PM
She is attractive, but so are hundreds of others of millions of women. I guess I'm just not seeing her as something so exceptionally unique to make the cost (let alone the risk to his future) worth $4K for sex. I don't know. Maybe he is use to spending that kind of money so $4k to him is like $400 to the average guy?

423texas
03-12-2008, 11:47 PM
She is attractive, but so are hundreds of others of millions of women. I guess I'm just not seeing her as something so exceptionally unique to make the cost (let alone the risk to his future) worth $4K for sex. I don't know. Maybe he is use to spending that kind of money so $4k to him is like $400 to the average guy?

4K to him is more like $4.00 to most of us.

His Dad is a NYC real estate developer that is worth $5,000,000,000 (that's 500 million!).

miabella
03-12-2008, 11:57 PM
as someone pointed out on pink, the real difference between a 2k/hr girl and a 4k an hour girl is that they're the same girl, micro-marketed.

as customers have pointed out in some of the escorting discussions, there are plenty of indies who charge high for guys they think will pony up and charge lower for guys they think will not.

sometimes that 4k/hr girl is a 400/hr girl.

but in this specific case, the 4k was payment for the current 2 hour(i think that was the timeframe) booking, plus downpayment on a future booking.

so that girl probably was, in fact, a 400/hr girl after all her, uh, tipouts were paid.

SeppeSai
03-13-2008, 04:25 AM
I would wonder what kind of services she could render for that price.

On sight alone, I wouldn't pay 4K per hour.

hockeybobby
03-13-2008, 05:03 AM
I think she's pretty.

She is pretty. I'm wondering if, when the shit-storm dies down, whether this will be good for her music career going forward. Is this kind of notoriety going to help it or not?

The girl right now is collateral damage. Her world just got ripped open. Her myspace had a half a million visits on it...I can only imagine what the media attention is/will be like.

eta: not to mention his poor wifey...fuck.

SeppeSai
03-13-2008, 05:20 AM
Is this kind of notoriety going to help it or not?

I read somewhere recently that Monica Lewinsky is unemployable due to the notoriety. This girl's not in that same stratosphere, but I have to imagine it won't help her any.

I was thinking about who I would pay for 4K an hour and the only one that came to mind is one of my favorite stocking website operators. She'd be worth that kind of coin to me.

xdamage
03-13-2008, 05:45 AM
I was thinking the opposite. Scandal can help the career or an aspiring hip-hop, r&b musician. A few days ago almost nobody had heard of her song. Today I bet it's being downloaded and played by the millions.

yoda57us
03-13-2008, 06:28 AM
I think she is pretty, though not my type. Is she worth $4000? She is if someone is willing to pay it.
On the hobby boards there are guys who will question weather a lady who wants $300 an hour is "worth it". A gal who tries to charge $400 will get insulted on the boards and told that she is charging too much.
Ultimately a lot of ladies use pricing to control their volume. Charging more means you will see fewer guys and still make good money. Don't forget that in the Spitzer case the escort in question is paying at least 30 to 40 percent of that to the agency. In come cases the agency gets as much as 50 percent.

There will always be guys whos egos are so closely tied in to their libidos that they have convinced themselves that the sex is better if you pay more for it. There will always be ladies who will take advantage of that.

I agree that Spitzer thought that part of what he was paying for was discretion. The logic is flawed though and again partially driven by his own ego. An agency that operates in that price range and caters to a high end clientele is bound to attract attention not because of the escorting itself but because of the amount of cash changing hands. Spitzer himself was targeted because of suspicions regarding the money he was moving around to hobby "in cognito".
Hobbying is a relatively safe endeavor if you are smart and discrete about it. Acting like you are above the law will get you ass kicked every time.

yoda57us
03-13-2008, 07:30 AM
Apparently the gov of NY thought she was worth it but I dunno. Miss D is better looking and now I feel like a cheap ass because I can only pay hundreds instead of thousands.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080313/ap_on_re_us/spitzer_call_girl

Would you guys P4P for this lady at that rate? Seems to me the NY governor gave the finger to the POP index.

FBR

FBR there really is no POP index in the world of escorting. Well, there is but it's all over the board depending on where you are, what you are looking for and what it's worth to you. It's not same as negotiating an arrangement with a dancer for OTC.
I'm sure Miss D. is happy with the arrangement and her compensation. Lol, if she wasn't you would have heard about it by now.

Katrine
03-13-2008, 10:11 AM
it's the same way auto companies market expensive sport or luxury cars which spend half their time in the shop.
.

No fucking kidding. Anyone want a BMW? The waiting room at the dealership is lovely, they have Starbucks, a movie theater, and massage chairs! ::)

Katrine
03-13-2008, 10:16 AM
Check out the High Dollar Hottie area of aspd. Expensive hooker demand does exist by those who want to be with the "elite."

Remember:
1. Its NYC, everything costs more there
2. The marketing aspects discussed already by mia and punk
3. The US media are scum
4. Quite looking at the flat dollar amount and freaking out of sticker shock. No one is going to ask you for $4K for a whore. You'd be fortunate to even be in that position.
5. Oh, I don't know.......

SportsWriter2
03-13-2008, 01:27 PM
When I first read the description of Kristen - five-five, 105, very pretty, brunette - I had flashbacks of my ATF freak. Slender thighs and calves, perky B, 20, totally addictive and addicted. I was getting a good danger rush out of my memories.

When I saw the pictures, I said "not even close to 105." It totally killed the danger rush. I wouldn't take Kristen for free. Just not my type. :-\

The real story a week from now will be how and why the first Suspicious Activity Report was generated. It had to be a payback hit job. $80K, even over six months, is nothing.

423texas
03-13-2008, 01:33 PM
When I first read the description of Kristen - five-five, 105, very pretty, brunette - I had flashbacks of my ATF freak. Slender thighs and calves, perky B, 20, totally addictive and addicted. I was getting a good danger rush out of my memories.

When I saw the pictures, I said "not even close to 105." It totally killed the danger rush. I wouldn't take Kristen for free. Just not my type. :-\

The real story a week from now will be how and why the first Suspicious Activity Report was generated. It had to be a payback hit job. $80K, even over six months, is nothing.

Wow, I'm impressed.

There's a huge difference between paying 4K for the gal and getting some of Ms. Kristen for free;D

yoda57us
03-13-2008, 01:45 PM
The real story a week from now will be how and why the first Suspicious Activity Report was generated. It had to be a payback hit job. $80K, even over six months, is nothing.

It's not the 80k Sporty, it's the way he was moving it around that aroused suspicion. Still, he has no friends on Wall street (some cheered when the story broke) so it wouldn't surprise me if the feds got tipped off.

Kristen is too young for me....I actually feel bad for her though. I know it's a risky business but no one deserves to have a scarlet letter stamped on their "15 minutes of fame" hall pass...

miabella
03-13-2008, 01:48 PM
i just wish people would stop saying she got 4k. she got at most 1k total since nearly half was prepayment to the agency for future girls.

xdamage
03-13-2008, 02:09 PM
... Is she worth $4000? She is if someone is willing to pay it. ....

The free market works, and more power to her if she can get more.

(yes true mia, it's really not 4K to her, it is a great example though of how facts get twisted by the media and us readers to add impact).

p.s. I have to admit though the pessimist in me thought perhaps there was a bit more going on here. Some of the early reports included some dialog indicating the Gov. wanted non-protected sex, and so I wondered if what he was really paying extra for is girls who are disease free, and willing to engage in non-protected sex. Those reports seem unclear now.

doc-catfish
03-13-2008, 02:58 PM
Maybe I point out Kristen was only two stars on the seven star scale. I mean, maybe we should be berating Spitzer for taking the crap of the cream.

She is hot. There's plenty of gals who are just as hot that are available for a hell of a lot less.

What can I say, I'm value minded. :-\

miabella
03-13-2008, 04:12 PM
i guess the irony for me here doc is that she personally is getting about what those cheaper girls get per hour-- there's just way more 'overhead' if you will related to getting alone time with her.

it's identical to the situation with vip rooms in strip clubs. you pay 1500 and the girl maybe ends up with 450-800 of it all, typically.

doc-catfish
03-13-2008, 04:57 PM
i guess the irony for me here doc is that she personally is getting about what those cheaper girls get per hour-- there's just way more 'overhead' if you will related to getting alone time with her.

it's identical to the situation with vip rooms in strip clubs. you pay 1500 and the girl maybe ends up with 450-800 of it all, typically.
I'm sure you're right. But we don't care as much where the money goes to, as we do where it comes from. In either circumstance, that high number (not the much lower net sum) is the one that we end up paying.

Docido
03-13-2008, 06:43 PM
I'll echo what nearly everyone has said, Kristen is a cutey. And if I saw her in my local club I'd certainly spring for some dances. Locality is everything though. If she were in my area she would be making (after tip out) 150 to 300 a night as a stripper. It may not seem like much, but that's a decent living here. In fact, she resembles a woman who used to pound vodka slammers with me in my late, lamented old club. After a few drinks, said dancer would gyrate on the bar while the manager gave her the evil eye. Good times.

xdamage
03-13-2008, 07:25 PM
I'm sure you're right. But we don't care as much where the money goes to, as we do where it comes from. In either circumstance, that high number (not the much lower net sum) is the one that we end up paying.

Yep.

It's similar to the argument that dancer's don't make $400 an hour, which is true, and understood, but it is not something the consumer cares about.

For example, when any of us is put in the position of paying a lawyer several hundred an hour, we don't talk about it in terms of the lawyer's total income for the year. We also don't talk about how the lawyer doesn't get to keep it all because the lawyers has expenses or others to pay. All we talk about is it is costing $X per hour for the lawyers services.

In this case $4K is not correct because some of the money paid was for future services, so perhaps the figure is closer to $2K for the hour, which is still a hefty sum.

Smokeless
03-13-2008, 09:52 PM
There's a good piece by Alan Dershowitz "The Entrapment of Eliot" about vague federal statutes such as the Mann Act used selectively. Also about how it really might not be so innocent how Spitzer was caught. It's in the WSJ amongst the articles gloating about his downfall. If you have a Journal subscription the URL is ...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120536943121332151.html

If not, try the following link, which should work for the next week. If this doesn't work, please holler.

http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewThis&etMailToID=1072137073

What is perhaps more interesting is the historic racially skewed enforcement of the Mann Act, starting with heavyweight boxing champion Jack Johnson (search "Mann Act" in the Wiki, but you will note an inconsistency between that entry and Johnson's biographical entry).

threlayer
03-14-2008, 10:19 PM
I'm betting Dershowitz is mostly right.

Kristin doid not get $5000, as a lot of this cash was used as credit to pre-pay for other future encounters. Plus she got a little less than half of that. Wonder if she asked for a tip?

The Mann Act of 1910 was intended for another use, but is being applied against its intent, which was to prevent guys from taking underage girls to a state where they would not be underaged and to prevent sex-slave traffic. It is now used for persecution instead. Of course it was written imperfectly to allow such directed usage.

Howie
03-15-2008, 12:13 PM
I think it was odd that the Justice Department was persuing a prostitution case. Shouldn't that have been left to the locals?

I wonder if it is another example of selective prosecution by the Bush administration like the case against Don Seligman.

lestat1
03-15-2008, 12:30 PM
I think it was odd that the Justice Department was persuing a prostitution case. Shouldn't that have been left to the locals?

This particular prostitution ring crossed several state lines, so no.

Smokeless
03-16-2008, 11:17 PM
At least according to the reports, they started looking because of "suspicious" movement of money in accounts linked to Spitzer. It was only afterwards that they realized the money was for the young, lovely Kirstin and her employer.



And if you entirely believe this, I've got some real estate in southwest Colorado ...

SportsWriter2
03-17-2008, 04:46 AM
And if you entirely believe this, I've got some real estate in southwest Colorado ...
You can probably sell it to Yoda. :-\

The sweet side of this is that the next piece Eliot gets will cost him $20 million... at least.

yoda57us
03-17-2008, 07:42 AM
You can probably sell it to Yoda. :-\

The sweet side of this is that the next piece Eliot gets will cost him $20 million... at least.


LOL, Sporty, you crack me up...if only you had a clue...

doc-catfish
03-17-2008, 03:47 PM
Give this gal credit. She knows how to turn infamy into fortune, and without blowing anyone or taking her clothes off no less.

http://www.showbizspy.com/2008/03/15/ashley-alexandra-dupre-earns-200000-in-music-downloads/

Have you heard her sing? I mean Pat Boone's album of heavy metal covers sounds better. I guess 200,000 people thought 99 cents was worth their curiosity.

yoda57us
03-17-2008, 05:14 PM
Give this gal credit. She knows how to turn infamy into fortune, and without blowing anyone or taking her clothes off no less.


Um...How do you figure that? If she hadn't taken her clothes off and (presumably) blown a governor no one would know her name right now...or be downloading her music.

SportsWriter2
03-17-2008, 06:26 PM
Um...How do you figure that?
Think about it. Doc is saying that neither you nor anyone but ES saw her do the dirty deeds. Whereas everyone can see Paris and Pam. That means Kristen Ashley Whatever can reap an extra million from Penthouse and retire to Costa del Sol. Not bad for a two-star girl. :)

JoeUnCool
03-17-2008, 06:40 PM
This particular prostitution ring crossed several state lines, so no.

The federal law regarding crossing state lines for prostitution was designed for child prostitution rings that would kidnap children and take them across state lines. In my readings on this, analysts were unsure if it could be applied in this situation.

Joe

doc-catfish
03-17-2008, 06:52 PM
Um...How do you figure that? If she hadn't taken her clothes off and (presumably) blown a governor no one would know her name right now...or be downloading her music.
I'm talking about her making money off the infamy, not doing what led to it. I mean the gal is being offered a million by Larry Flynt to pose nude. She's already 20% of the way there on a couple of crappy music downloads.

Which brings up the question, why so much emphasis on this one gal? I mean if Spitzer needed a description of her, its safe to imply that the remaining $75K of the money he spent was on other providers. Why stop at outing one?

All Good Things
03-17-2008, 09:27 PM
It's true she didn't get $4K. That was the rate for the 4-star girls. I believe she was closer to $2K.

There are two points I haven't yet seen in the thread, and I think they are important.

What you are buying in this case is not just the girl or the "experience." You are buying, under normal circumstances, ironclad silence, guaranteed anonymity and a disease-free experience. Guaranteed.

These are all extremely precious commodities in politics, high finance and the top of Fortune 500 companies. If anything, he underpaid. Spitzer is one of a significant number of politicians with professionals on the side -- he just happened to get caught up in a sting operation that wasn't even aimed at him.

The other point concerns the psychology of money. This is a little delicate, but the argument goes generally something like this. Men will pay $5K or $10K or $25K for a single night not because they are necessarily enamored of the woman but because they can. Because the amount of money makes no difference to them at all, not in the slightest (Spitzer has family money as well as his own expense account) and that cavalier attitude about money means that they are among the rarified 0.025% of the populace that can light cigars with $100 bills all day long and never be bothered by it in the least. It's a sign of material success, an indication that they swim with the richest, most successful Alpha males on the planet.

yoda57us
03-18-2008, 04:31 AM
Two very important points TOO. They have actually been discussed in several threads over on The Erotic Review.

Quite frankly, any guy who chooses to see escorts runs the risk of getting caught. While it's true that a politician or any other public figure is more likely to wind up on the news for his discretion the consequences of getting caught can be devastating for anyone. Every man who visits escorts wants absolute discretion. The reality is that no agency can guarantee it. They can charge more money under the pretense of promising privacy protection but the reality is that there are too many factors that are beyond their control for them to guarantee it. Indeed, in this case Spitzer's own money handling tactics not only helped cause his downfall but helped lead to the federal investigation of the agency. This led to the exposure of other clients.

Clients number one through eight are in deep shit because client number nine got cocky...

Any well established escort knows all about keeping her mouth shut. Spitzer may well have had a better chance with a smart independent lady from the DC Eros board. The chances are that half of the ladies on that board, or the New York board for that matter wouldn't even know who he is.

As far as paying it because you can I couldn't agree more. Spitzer's libido is hopelessly tied to his ego and his bank account. Most men who see escorts all the time will tell you that, once you reach a certain price range, the amount of money you pay really has nothing to do with the quality of the sex that you are paying for. A $600 an hour girl isn't going to be twice as good as one who charges $300 an hour though obviously some men are going to think so. The fact is, in some arenas, the rip-off factor goes way up as the price rises.

There will always be guys like Spitzer who willingly pay more for something that you really can't put an incremental value on but thats part of the business.

mr_punk
03-18-2008, 04:44 AM
"Best practices," though, really dictate that you wait for the dancer to PM you. This eliminates even the hint of stalkerishness and allows you to have an enjoyable PM "relationship" with her that may or may not result in a meeting, either at her club or at a different location.bwhahaha...as much as i've seen these girls shill. best practices, my ass.

What you are buying in this case is not just the girl or the "experience." You are buying, under normal circumstances, ironclad silence, guaranteed anonymity and a disease-free experience. Guaranteed.is this really a guarantee or is it simply a case of not having been caught? frankly, i think it's about as much of a guarantee as meeting the archetypical 22 y.o. from a highly selective school who speaks 5 languages and has a MBA from Wharton who retired from her very successful career as a jet-setting, former fashion model and decided to become a ho while getting pimped for half her money.

yoda57us
03-18-2008, 05:18 AM
Think about it. Doc is saying that neither you nor anyone but ES saw her do the dirty deeds. Whereas everyone can see Paris and Pam. That means Kristen Ashley Whatever can reap an extra million from Penthouse and retire to Costa del Sol. Not bad for a two-star girl. :)

Sporty, you DO know what an escort does right? Do you have to see it to know what happened? I don't.
Two weeks ago "Kristen's" day gig and her singing career had nothing to do with each other. She was one of thousands of escorts working in discrete obscurity and an even more obscure young aspiring singer.
That is no longer the case. Maybe some day it won't matter anymore but right now anything she does that makes her money is leveraged against the 15 minutes of fame she gets for sleeping with a politician and getting paid for it.

Paris and Pam? Two poorly directed videos with bad lighting. If those two women were not already famous before the vids came out they would be shooting scenes for Bang Brothers right now...not that there is anything wrong with that...



I'm talking about her making money off the infamy, not doing what led to it. I mean the gal is being offered a million by Larry Flynt to pose nude. She's already 20% of the way there on a couple of crappy music downloads.


Doc, the "infamy" wouldn't exist without the prior act. No one would know her name, no one would care. Larry flint is offering an outed escort a million dollars, He's not offering it to a singer with a my space page.

JoeUnCool
03-18-2008, 08:44 AM
Honestly, I don't understand the brouha over ES. Yes, he has pissed a lot of people off in the past. But come on. Getting caught with an escort? Clinton was doing the staff and he stayed on. ES spent his own money. Its not like the NJ governor that had his lover on the state's payroll. I guess in this situation, I've got too much libertarian in me.

Joe