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Dottie Rebel
03-18-2008, 01:41 PM
Didn't we establish it's BigGreenMnM or whatever?

noelle
03-18-2008, 05:26 PM
I've had my bumper stickers scraped off when i lived near a church (my support strippers one, my coexist(all the letters being symbols of various religions), and my fuck prejudice one).

:O So someone was so offended that you dislike prejudice that they scraped off your bumper sticker? Wow... keep the sword handy for sure!

Susan-Va
03-18-2008, 08:59 PM
Didn't we establish it's BigGreenMnM or whatever?

We did? when did we do that? IDK, as far as I know he hasn't been around the Richmond Club scene for awhile. I could be wrong though.......................

Dottie Rebel
03-18-2008, 09:24 PM
We did? when did we do that? IDK, as far as I know he hasn't been around the Richmond Club scene for awhile. I could be wrong though.......................

Looks like Velvet and SusanWayward called him out in this thread: http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110112&page=2&highlight=biggreenmnm

SexyJess
03-19-2008, 05:45 PM
:O So someone was so offended that you dislike prejudice that they scraped off your bumper sticker? Wow... keep the sword handy for sure!

No kidding. I don't have bumper stickers on my car, but if I did and I caught someone scraping them off, I'd go after them with a baseball bat, assault charges be damned. That's just rude.

VegasPrincess
03-19-2008, 06:12 PM
if you strip, you aren't in God's good graces (the Christian God).

.

Uhh, I'm Christian and I don't think Jesus is mad at me for getting naked

Lysondra
03-19-2008, 06:19 PM
Jesus was naked on the cross. If anything, being naked on a large verticle object is showing your faith.

MarvelGirl
03-19-2008, 07:13 PM
[quote=miabella;1451512]if you strip, you aren't in God's good graces (the Christian God).


You know who else isn't in God's good graces? (the christian god)

People who go around telling strangers that they aren't in God's good graces.

But hey, maybe whatever altered variation of the bible you have is different from mine. But mine has this part in it about judging... who knows, maybe whatever particular church you belong to decided that they didn't like that part and just conveniently edited it out. That seems to happen alot.

:sarcastic

ToOldForThisChit
03-20-2008, 04:39 AM
We did? when did we do that? IDK, as far as I know he hasn't been around the Richmond Club scene for awhile. I could be wrong though.......................
In a way your correct.While he still works for Richmond based clubs ,after opening another family restaurant in the area(#4),it wasnt a great idea for him to stand in the booth of a local strip club.He now works as a road warrior for a few different chains on the east coast as a consultant/headhunter,and when he can talk his tired old ass into a booth,as a scdj.
Im assuming this response is on topic of the thread because it shows real life situations where someone who works in the strip club industry can actually be effected in other business ventures because of it and these church groups.

The funny thing is,if you have seen the newspapers and tv news the last few weeks,who's picture has been on the pages more often??Spitzer or the Hooker??

If you tossed pictures of them in front of the church groups,they could point out the hooker,then the wife,then spitzer himself.Fucking Hippo's!

Spitzer is out of a job.
The hookers rate's went way up.
The wife is forced to stand there with a smile on her face because her husband cheated on her.
MnM cant stand in a local strip club dj booth for fear of loosing his sunday brunch church crowd at his restaurants.

Its a crazy world we live in!

cameron_keys
03-20-2008, 08:56 AM
Jesus was naked on the cross. If anything, being naked on a large verticle object is showing your faith.

HA! I love it!

Also...I want grab these people and grill them on the bible. First...Jesus had love for a hooker..Mary Magdalene..in fact, if you believe certain theories out there he loved her, married her and she was his right hand.

Not to mention that these people who CLAIM to follow the word of the bible never do. its impossible to follow everything. I want to ask the women if they go hide in a cave during their periods...because yep,the bible says they have to.

The thing is you can find a passage in the bible to support pretty much anything you want. The bible is FULL of contradictions.

Next time ask them if they've read Romans...because they are out there protesting, trying to get the place shut down,while Romans CLEARLY states that god says NOT to seek any vengeance...that he will do it for you if it is warranted.

Then tell them to get a life.

SnakeBabe
03-20-2008, 09:36 AM
Why don’t they protest in front of Dunking Donuts since Gluttony is a sin? ;D
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria

$$$magnet
03-20-2008, 09:50 AM
I don't live in VA, but here is some stuff on Starlight Ministries:

http://starlight-ministries.org/wp_blog_1/

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17495976
"Lia Scholl is an ordained Baptist minister, but she opened a ministry some churchgoers might frown upon. Scholl discusses why she started a ministry that reaches out to exotic dancers."

Morgan_TX
03-21-2008, 12:15 PM
Wow... I've been looking at their website, and I must say that I'm impressed.,

I don't know what these women are REALLY like, but if they actually are like their website, then I'm impressed. I'm not Christian, but I wish more Christian ministries behaved in a spirit of Christ-like love and compassion, rather than Falwell-ian judgement and spite.

cameron_keys
03-21-2008, 12:21 PM
IF they arent out there protesting and judging...the site is indeed impressive:

"I am a Godmother. And I have two of the cutest Goddaughters in the world. I received a report from their mother just this week, about the oldest one, who we’ll call Bright Star, who is nearly 8 years old:

I had a lingerie shower for a cousin. One of the gifts she received was a pair of red patent leather platform sandals with 5-inch heels. Bright Star was awed by the shoes and, of course, needed to try them on immediately!

She was able to dance around and jump in them. Amazing! She asked where you would wear such shoes to which her cousin readily answered “Pole Dancing.” Then the cousin explained what pole dancing is. Bright Star was intrigued by this, and I am sure was considering this as a future career choice (she could be a ballet dancer, a tap dancer, a jazz dancer, or a pole dancer!). Her cousin then told Bright Star that she would have to dance on a stage using the pole, wearing the shoes, but only in her underwear.

Bright Star asked, “Why?” When her cousin told her because if you do this men will stick dollar bills in your panties, Bright Star quickly informed us, “Girls who do that should get WAY more than dollars and should be able to carry a large purse on stage to hold the money in instead of their panties which could never hold enough!”

Mom continued, “You’d would have so been proud!”

I am proud. And she’s right. Women who are exotic dancers should get WAY more dollars than they can carry in their panties!"

NewMoon
03-21-2008, 12:29 PM
I'd LOVE to carry around a large sack to collect tips onstage. =oD

Morgan_TX
03-21-2008, 12:33 PM
From Starlight... THIS explains the problem I have with protestors. I think she said it better than I could:



September 24, 2007

What would you do if you went to work everyday and had to walk through a line of people screaming at you, “You shouldn’t work here?” Or they said, “Satan is making you work here?” Or what if they said, “You are evil for working here”?

How would you feel? What would it feel like to enter the doors of your job? Would you be happy to go to work? Would you feel like you were being defiant just by being there? Or would you be ashamed? Or even worried that they might be right?

I was in a club the other day, and the bartender told me that there’s a group of Christian men standing outside her club some days, and they do just that. They try to shame the women into not going to work.

Does their tactic have merit? NO! Is their message being heard? If they intend to have a message of hate, a message of hurtful news, then yes, their message is being heard. But if they have a message of hope? Then no, it is most definitely not being heard.

How can the delivery of the message be contrary to the message itself? The Good News of Christ is a message of hope. It is a message of love. Any other delivery tactic besides respect, friendship and love is a tactic that is not from God.

Katrine
03-21-2008, 04:09 PM
Christianity is a LOVING religion. The bible teaches us to LOVE and respect everyone. Jesus was all about the LOVE. Just read this article's kind and LOVING biblical quotes:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Biblical-Quotations-for-Heathens---Child-Rearing

TheSexKitten
03-21-2008, 04:15 PM
I'm sure Jesus was a wonderful guy. In fact, he probably was a healer, too. He was essentially a Reform Jew.

The Bible was written and/or edited by a bunch of corrupt mortals.

If I were a Christian, I would have to be a non-Bible Christian. :)

Katrine
03-21-2008, 04:44 PM
Jesus was a mythological character. There is no historical evidence to indicate he evene existed. In addition, there have been dozens of jesus-like deity/son of good/savior type characters in the religions that pre-dated christianity. Mithras anyone?

lizlizliz
03-21-2008, 05:05 PM
this happened when i waitressed at palazio a few years ago. we all thought it was pretty funny, it didn't slow down business any either.

liastarlight
03-21-2008, 06:34 PM
Thanks, everybody, for all the great comments about Star Light (http://starlight-ministries.org). I thought at first that I would have to come in here to defend Star Light and our volunteers, but many of you already have. Thank you so much.

I'd like to apologize for Christians. We forget that the greatest component of love is acceptance. Forgive us.

Here's the deal: Star Light volunteers aren't trying to get you saved, get you to quit your job, or get you to change in any way, shape or form. Our job is to accept you and support you. In any way you will allow us to. Stripping is hard work, and not a whole lot of folks offer support. We're trying.

That being said, there are Star Light (http://starlight-ministries.org) teams in Birmingham, Atlanta, D.C. and Richmond. And we have volunteers in other cities, too, so if you need something, contact us. We'll see what we can do.

And, by the way, I pastor a small church in West Richmond. If you'd like to come protest us, shoot me a note and I'll give you directions. I'll bring you hot chocolate! Just don't steal my Support Strippers bumper sticker!

Lia

Susan Wayward
03-21-2008, 06:40 PM
Lia, you sound like a witty and wise woman. Thanks for the support; I am sure it helps dancers who can't find it easily.

There were gift bag Christians in my club in Austin before Easter every year and they were super sweet. It's just that the angry ones, just like the cracked-out strippers, are the stereotype that everyone thinks of first.

noelle
03-21-2008, 07:01 PM
Lysondra, you've been quoted.

Lysondra
03-21-2008, 07:16 PM
Awesome! I'm going for the win! <3

Katrine
03-21-2008, 07:18 PM
I'd like to apologize for Christians. We forget that the greatest component of love is acceptance. Forgive us.

Here's the deal: Star Light volunteers aren't trying to get you saved, get you to quit your job, or get you to change in any way, shape or form. Our job is to accept you and support you. In any way you will allow us to. Stripping is hard work, and not a whole lot of folks offer support. We're trying.
Lia

Nope, not buying it. You have an agenda disguised as compassion. ::)

To add: strippers are at work in a non-religious environment. They don't need God shoved down their throat in the workplace. If they want religion, they can find it on their own time. Some of us prefer not to have anything to do with a mythical monster that kills children for fun. Why don't you focus your energy on helping women really in need?

Susan-Va
03-21-2008, 07:25 PM
Nope, not buying it. You have an agenda disguised as compassion. ::)

I've talked with Lia through email, have yet to meet her in person. I admit that I can be a bit skeptical about anything having any kind of religious overtones, but, why is it so hard to believe that they want to offer support to women in the industry? With so many people that look down on women in the industry it's nice to know that there are some outsiders that don't judge.

Morgan_TX
03-21-2008, 11:59 PM
I'm a VERY religious/spiritual person, as in, I'm a practicing Wiccan. I've served as priestess and High Priestess for years. I grew up in a Christian home and have experienced Southern Baptist, Methodist, Mormon (LDS), Mennonite, Charity, and Independent Fundamental Baptist.

The simple fact is that if *I* want to be permitted to practice MY religion, then Christians should be permitted to practice their religion. It's a "live and let live" kind of thing.

Now if I insist on casting a big circle and holding a big pagan festival in the parking lot of a local church, and that festival disrupts traffic and disturbs the peace, then MY religious practice has become illegal and immoral. If, on the other hand, I want to stand on a public sidewalk in front of a church and hold up signs and talk on a bullhorn to protest their treatment of Mother Earth, I'm perfectly entitled to do so. Is it annoying? Yes. But it's not illegal or unethical.

Christians have a moral obligation to proselytize. It's called the "Great Commission", and it is a religious duty for them to share the Good News (i.e. Gospel) of Christ's message and ressurrection with all the people of the world. That is the last directive Christ gave before ascending to Heaven, kind of like his last request. It is a religious obligation for them.

That said, Christ simply instructed his followers to be bearers of the news. The work of Starlight Ministries is very much in-line with that directive. They go out, meet people who are in a mostly-"unreached" population, and offer kindness. They SHOW the spirit of Christ to the people by being kind and non-judgmental. So what if they're just "softening you up" so they can minister to you? That's their religious obligation.

Very few religious organizations these days are Christ-like at all. How many "Christian" churches today "preach to the choir"--preaching to the members of the Congregation that are already saved? Starlight has gone out to a largely unsaved population and offered them kindness and compassion. Jesus wasn't standing outside his local brothel or Temple of Aphrodite protesting and picketing. He wasn't villifying the sinners of his day. He was inviting prostitutes and tax collectors to his dinner table. He offered them friendship FIRST, and then he began to share his message with them.

Lia, I'm not Christian and have no desire to convert, but I for one approve whole-heartedly of what you're doing. Frankly, strippers are demonized and villianized by those on all sides of the religious and political spectrum. It's nice to actually have SOMEONE giving us some support and encouragement for a change.

Kudos!

Katrine
03-22-2008, 09:19 AM
What if we are not interested in the message? I no longer work in this industry, but in my current sales role, if a prospective client came in to proselytize her religious message to me, I would have them escorted out of my office. Keep your beliefs away from me!

RoseLeigh
03-22-2008, 09:35 AM
That said, Christ simply instructed his followers to be bearers of the news. The work of Starlight Ministries is very much in-line with that directive. They go out, meet people who are in a mostly-"unreached" population, and offer kindness. They SHOW the spirit of Christ to the people by being kind and non-judgmental. So what if they're just "softening you up" so they can minister to you? That's their religious obligation.



Seriously, who's left that has NOT heard the 'Good news'? At least in the Western world? (no doubt the rest of the world has heard something, with tv and all, though I'll give the Islamic/Hindu/Buddhist/Shinto/etc area a rest). Do we need more people to tell us about JC?

SnakeBabe
03-22-2008, 10:15 AM
....And, by the way, I pastor a small church in West Richmond. If you'd like to come protest us, shoot me a note and I'll give you directions. I'll bring you hot chocolate! Just don't steal my Support Strippers bumper sticker!

Lia

Thanks for joining in Lia,

I had to laugh when I read this. My husband told me how he and the youth group he was part of brought Coffee and cookies to the atheists that were protesting the church he was going to.

Are you able to answer a few questions about your ministry?
Hugs and Hissessss,
Maria

cameron_keys
03-22-2008, 10:51 AM
Nope, not buying it. You have an agenda disguised as compassion. ::)

To add: strippers are at work in a non-religious environment. They don't need God shoved down their throat in the workplace. If they want religion, they can find it on their own time. Some of us prefer not to have anything to do with a mythical monster that kills children for fun. Why don't you focus your energy on helping women really in need?

Lia..correct me if I am wrong,but Starlight doesnt look like they protest or go into strip clubs to "save" the dancers.

I have no problem with groups,religious or not,who support others choices and say that if anyone needs them for any reason,they are there for them.I'm not a religious person,but still.. I think thats sweet.

Yes,they have an agenda. We all do in one way or another..whether its to save others,corrupt others or to make money and live our own lives....as long as that agenda isnt pushed down others throats, I dont see a problem with it.

Katrine
03-22-2008, 11:30 AM
They go out, meet people who are in a mostly-"unreached" population, and offer kindness!

Unreached? Give me a clubful of strippers any day, and I'll show you at least 90% of them that were raised in a Christian household of some sort. Stripping is a fucking job, its a place people go to work, so they can put food on the table. Its not a place women go to find societal validation.

By coming in and bothering the workers, you are NOT changing society's perception of them, you are NOT changing the customer's perception of them as sex objects, and you are NOT even changing management/owner's perception of these women as stupid and expendable. These religious groups are there to recruit prospects, and I believe its an innapropriate place.

liastarlight
03-22-2008, 11:38 AM
Hey, all,

This is a pretty exciting conversation to me. I'm really enjoying it.

Maria (SnakeBabe) asked if I'm willing to answer questions. Absolutely! Ask away!

Just so we're clear: At Star Light, we don't protest, we don't proselytize, we aren't trying to make anyone feel uncomfortable, we don't leave tracts, either secretively or try to slip them in the gifts we bring, we're always upfront about who we are when we come in, we don't approach dancers, but allow them to approach us, and we try really hard not to impact the economics of the club.

I'm learning a lot here and appreciate the thread!

Also, for those of you curious about how I feel about other religions and spirituality, please read this post. R-E-S-P-E-C-T (http://starlight-ministries.org/wp_blog_1/?p=111)

I'm looking forward to reading questions, and getting to know you all better.

Lia

cameron_keys
03-22-2008, 11:39 AM
Unreached? Give me a clubful of strippers any day, and I'll show you at least 90% of them that were raised in a Christian household of some sort. Stripping is a fucking job, its a place people go to work, so they can put food on the table. Its not a place women go to find societal validation.

By coming in and bothering the workers, you are NOT changing society's perception of them, you are NOT changing the customer's perception of them as sex objects, and you are NOT even changing management/owner's perception of these women as stupid and expendable. These religious groups are there to recruit prospects, and I believe its an innapropriate place.

I agree. Protesting outside interferes(at least it CAN interfere..thats its purpose) with my money. Not ok.

I not only grew up Christian,I grew up Irish catholic with a father who used to be a Catholic priest. It's def. not an unreached population. Its a population that has made a choice,either to not be reached by this type of thing or who has made peace within themselves that combines their job and their faith.

virgoamm
03-22-2008, 11:46 AM
It's def. not an unreached population. Its a population that has made a choice,either to not be reached by this type of thing or who has made peace within themselves that combines their job and their faith.

I totally agree. I was raised Catholic, but decided agnosticism made the most sense to me. You can't prove that God exists and you can't prove that he doesn't. What can I say, I'm a pragmatist.

Katrine
03-22-2008, 11:46 AM
Ok, I have some questions for you Lia. So, you come into a club, take up table space, and wait for girls to approach you for dances. Do you actually buy dances? What's in the gift bags? Cash, accounting software for taxes, diapers, sales skills books? What useful things do you bring to these girls?

What is your point here? Customers tell strippers how wonderful they are each and every day. Sure, you are going to have your share of douchebags, but most men WORSHIP these ladies for giving them attention and taking away their loneliness. Now you want to tell them another dude, Jesus, thinks they are rad? Do you think they don't know? Are you going to very rough clubs with extremely disadvantaged ladies working there?

Where are you located?

Morgan_TX
03-22-2008, 12:28 PM
What if we are not interested in the message? I no longer work in this industry, but in my current sales role, if a prospective client came in to proselytize her religious message to me, I would have them escorted out of my office. Keep your beliefs away from me!

Perhaps it's a regional difference then...

I've worked in automotive sales where our "trainer" spent a good half-hour explaining how all of his success was a blessing from "God". I've worked cosmetic sales where the lecturer at our sales meeting spent a good two hours talking to us about the importance of prayer in our daily schedules. I've had co-workers and clients invite me to church on MANY occassions. When I've been a "captive audience" (like in the training and sales meetings), I just doodle on my notepad and ignore the rhetoric. If it gets too cloying, I get up and excuse myself to go to another room. When I get invitations to church, I simply say, "Thanks for the offer, but I'm really not interested," and leave it at that.

I fail to see how it's a big deal.

What I'm saying is simply this: It is a religious obligation for Christians to proselytize. Now I'm not really interested in their "message", as I've heard it before and have rejected it. But I also believe that they have as much right to do it as I do to dance around a bonfire on a full moon.

That said, I DO have a problem with the rabid and hateful "Christians" (and I put that in quotes because that type of "Christian" in no way embodies the teaching or example of Christ and their actions border on blasphemy). I don't mind it if you invite me to church with you. To a Christian, an invitation to church is not issued out of hate or revulsion, but out of love. To someone who honestly and sincerely believes in the Bible, inviting someone to church is the ultimate act of love and charity. But you cannot FORCE someone to become a Christian. You cannot FORCE someone to accept the Christian message. So when you invite me to church with you, and I politely decline, the ONLY appropriate response is, "Well the offer stands. If you ever change your mind, just let me know." Then the topic of conversation is DROPPED. Continuing to beat the dead horse is pointless and harrassing.

All I'm saying is this: It does not look like Starlight actively proselytizes. It looks like they simply go into clubs (with club management approval, apparently) and offer gift bags, conversation, and encouragement to the club employees and dancers. It doesn't look like they actively flag down dancers and try to keep them from making money. If a Starlight team comes into your club, you're more than free to simply avoid their table. It doesn't appear that they're the ones protesting and driving away business. And from what I've read, it appears that Starlight teams do NOT even bring up the issue of religion. I'm sure that they answer questions when asked, but it doesn't look like they're sitting in the stripclub singing Amazing Grace and trying to compete with the Seether blasting from the speakers.

If you don't like the Starlight girls, nobody is forcing you to approach them. They just go in and make themselves available.

DISCLAIMER: I've never met anyone from Starlight, nor have I talked to any of the Starlight girls. I'm basing my opinions off of the information from their website.

liastarlight
03-22-2008, 12:33 PM
Hey, Katrine,

Yes, ma'am, we come into the club. We strategically time it so that there are not many customers in the club when we come in. The management has been told who we are, and has given us permission to come in. I will buy time, not dances, actually, if a dancer wants to talk, but doesn't want to lose money. The gift bags vary. Last time I went to a club, we took pizza. One team took handknit scarves recently. Other gifts might be themed around the season, Christmas, Easter, Valentine's Day. Usually there's chocolate involved somewhere.

You know, Katrine, I know there are women in the clubs who feel great about what they do. I know there are women who love their jobs. But there are also women who are working who can be having a crappy day. Or a crappy week. Our goal is to just bring a small gift, a smile, a laugh, or even a word of comfort. I can't tell you how many times I've been in the club and heard, "I really needed to see you today."

We build relationships. Usually, after visiting a club for several months, the dancers expect us. And yes, they usually are expecting the "other shoe to drop," too. When is it that I'm going to be judgmental? When am I going to say, "You shouldn't be here." That sort of stuff. The other shoe doesn't drop.

What ways have we helped? A pregnant dancer had a stillborn child. She needed rent for the weeks that she was out of work. We helped. One dancer (who was only 17, by the way) needed to get her GED. A volunteer went with her for the first day of class, and she said that she could've never faced it alone. Another pregnant dancer had to leave dancing, she was starting to show and didn't like the second-hand smoke, so Star Light volunteers helped her network for jobs, and were even references for her. We've offered yoga classes. Last week, a team in Birmingham hosted an Easter egg hunt for the dancers and their kids.

Now, most of the clubs we visit are the smaller clubs. We don't go where we aren't welcome. Our teams serve in Birmingham, Atlanta, Richmond and DC.

I should also say that Star Light is starting a new program, called Exotic Dancer, M.B.A. which is a one-day seminar that will use the Naked Assets material, to help women who dance become SuperStrippers. Avalon from Arizona is teaching it, in Richmond on April 28. We will announce all of that and the new website next week.

Argh! This is more than you asked for! Thanks for reading this far.

Lia


Ok, I have some questions for you Lia. So, you come into a club, take up table space, and wait for girls to approach you for dances. Do you actually buy dances? What's in the gift bags? Cash, accounting software for taxes, diapers, sales skills books? What useful things do you bring to these girls?

What is your point here? Customers tell strippers how wonderful they are each and every day. Sure, you are going to have your share of douchebags, but most men WORSHIP these ladies for giving them attention and taking away their loneliness.

Now you want to tell them another dude, Jesus, thinks they are rad? Do you think they don't know? Are you going to very rough clubs with extremely disadvantaged ladies working there?

Where are you located?

Katrine
03-22-2008, 12:38 PM
Perhaps it's a regional difference then...
I've worked in automotive sales where our "trainer" spent a good half-hour explaining how all of his success was a blessing from "God". I've worked cosmetic sales where the lecturer at our sales meeting spent a good two hours talking to us about the importance of prayer in our daily schedules.
.

I would complain to whoever supervises the person who brought in religious people of information. I have the right, in this country, to NOT hear about religion or god. There is no god in my life and there never will be. Its my personal obligation to ensure that your type of complacency doesn't turn this country into a theocracy.

Keep religion and god out of my workplace and out of the schools.

Katrine
03-22-2008, 12:42 PM
Lia,
Thank you for answering my questions and I am very happy that you have helped out so many women, that is very kind and caring of you. My vitriol isn't aimed against you or your organization directly, many religious groups do many great things. I just have an issue with god in general, and living to serve "HIM" rather than just helping others for the sake of helping. Whatever's clever though if you make some of these girls happy.

liastarlight
03-22-2008, 12:45 PM
Katrine,

I didn't hear any of it as vitriolic! I'm glad to hear your point of view, and really want to be respectful when we visit clubs, respectful of all the views and feelings. You're helping me!

Lia

Morgan_TX
03-22-2008, 12:49 PM
I would complain to whoever supervises the person who brought in religious people of information. I have the right, in this country, to NOT hear about religion or god. There is no god in my life and there never will be. Its my personal obligation to ensure that your type of complacency doesn't turn this country into a theocracy.

Keep religion and god out of my workplace and out of the schools.

Honey, you don't have a right to not be offended.

People complain that signs from stripclubs are offensive to them, that the signs are placed to be clearly visible from public roadways and often contain implied nudity that may be objectionable to parents of children. But the courts have ruled repeatedly that so long as the signs don't violate the laws, they are a legal expression of free speech.

Protesting (as annoying as it is) is also a legal expression of free speech. "Witnessing" (a.k.a., proselytizing) is also a legal expression of free speech. Why can't you just live and let live? As long as they're not forcing you to sit and listen to it, then what is the big issue?

And you know, when I lived in Arizona, I had no food. Even the "expedited" food stamps application took almost a week to get, so in the meantime the people from the food stamps office referred me to some charitable organizations to get food for my kids. I had to sit through a two-hour sermon at one of those places, just to get food for my family table.

I'd rather have Lia and a Starlight team providing help without forcing me to listen to their rhetoric, than to have to listen to a fundamental preacher for a couple of hours before they'd give me food.

Katrine
03-22-2008, 12:57 PM
And you know, when I lived in Arizona, I had no food. Even the "expedited" food stamps application took almost a week to get, so in the meantime the people from the food stamps office referred me to some charitable organizations to get food for my kids. I had to sit through a two-hour sermon at one of those places, just to get food for my family table.

I'd rather have Lia and a Starlight team providing help without forcing me to listen to their rhetoric, than to have to listen to a fundamental preacher for a couple of hours before they'd give me food.

Not the same. You were in a dire situation. A stripper is at work to work and make money, not to be sold on Jesus. I never said they didn't have the right to come in and do their work. Most people believe in god, and the majority of people in this country are christian. But if I were FORCED to sit through it at a job, as you were, you bet your ass I would complain to a supervisor. If you want to express your beliefs in the workplace, wear your faith's symbol around your neck.

Paris
03-22-2008, 01:03 PM
Christians have a moral obligation to proselytize. It's called the "Great Commission", and it is a religious duty for them to share the Good News (i.e. Gospel) of Christ's message and ressurrection with all the people of the world. That is the last directive Christ gave before ascending to Heaven, kind of like his last request. It is a religious obligation for them.

That said, Christ simply instructed his followers to be bearers of the news.

I just wanted to mention here, that every time I'm approached by a Christian trying to save my soul, they seem to have no answer whatsoever when I respond "I don't believe in god".

Most Christian recruiting literature assumes that everyone believes in god. That god is as obvious as gravity or air or water. But when pushed for evidence of god, the bible (or other religious text) is cited as "proof" of god.

I prefer my nihilistic world view and no more want to be "converted" than Christians want to hear how silly their religion is at it's core when looked at from a logical stand point.

Morgan_TX
03-22-2008, 01:25 PM
Not the same. You were in a dire situation. A stripper is at work to work and make money, not to be sold on Jesus. I never said they didn't have the right to come in and do their work. Most people believe in god, and the majority of people in this country are christian. But if I were FORCED to sit through it at a job, as you were, you bet your ass I would complain to a supervisor. If you want to express your beliefs in the workplace, wear your faith's symbol around your neck.

I wasn't really forced to sit through it, though. I simply got up and excused myself from the rest of the presenter's speech when it got too cloying for me.

Perhaps it's different for me. I'm not an atheist, but a Wiccan. Because of that, I know that Christians have just as much right to openly proclaim their beliefs as I do to openly proclaim mine. I want nothing more than to have greater understanding and tolerance of ALL religions and religious practices, but I know that to do that, I have to first demonstrate tolerance and understanding towards THEM.


I just wanted to mention here, that every time I'm approached by a Christian trying to save my soul, they seem to have no answer whatsoever when I respond "I don't believe in god".

Most Christian recruiting literature assumes that everyone believes in god. That god is as obvious as gravity or air or water. But when pushed for evidence of god, the bible (or other religious text) is cited as "proof" of god.

I prefer my nihilistic world view and no more want to be "converted" than Christians want to hear how silly their religion is at it's core when looked at from a logical stand point.

It's actually something that most Christians are completely unfamiliar with. The thing is that for centuries, Christian evangelism never focussed on the question of "Is there a god?" Everyone in society simply accepted that there was, indeed, a god. The focus in evangelism, therefore, was in explaining the Gospel and the "Romans Road to Salvation" (as it is frequently called).

Now, we have more and more people who don't believe in the existence of a god at all. This is one reason why Christian-based "Creation Science" research has expanded greatly in the past 20 years, as has Christian apologetics. These two fields attempt to answer the question "Is there a god?", and when dealing with a true apologeticist, you might be surprised. (Those guys can talk circles around anyone.) But the old model of evangelism still assumes that the "seeker" accepts the existence of god, so it's quickly losing power as society has changed.

virgoamm
03-22-2008, 01:30 PM
Lia, kudos to you on post #90. I'm not religious at all, but it sounds like a great organization you have going and your kindness to others is heartwarming.

Starfire
03-22-2008, 01:56 PM
Lia starlight, you sound very nice and it seems like you are doing a good thing. HOWEVER, I really resent the implication that many religious groups seem to have that strippers are downtrodden, have no support, etc etc. The fact is, I can speak for myself and many other girls I work with, we have eachother, and other support systems outside of work like non dancer friends, and wonderful, loving families, significant others, etc. Not to mention the resources that our income affords us. I would urge you to check out another thread on here, http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110116 where we discuss the book nickle and dimed. Religious views aside, it is clear to me that women who work in low wage jobs like waitressing, hotel cleaning and retail are far more downtrodden and need much more help than we do. I don't know why people want to focus on dancers, maybe because of the fact that many view our work as sinful and think we need saving. However, if your primary goal is to help people and not "save the strippers" maybe you ought to branch out to your local diners and hotels and help their employees too.
Should we start another thread about starlight ministries guys?

Paris
03-22-2008, 02:14 PM
^^Yes. In the lounge or member's boards.

liastarlight
03-22-2008, 02:17 PM
Hey, all,

I want to explain two other parts of Star Light, too. First, is the change that happens when our volunteers visit clubs. They begin to see women who are exotic dancers as NOT other. They begin to see that, as one volunteer put it, "They're just folks." And they also begin to view sexuality differently. They start to see that being "nekkid" isn't sinful and that there are many different types of sexuality. And another thing that women who are dancers teach them: that beauty comes in all shapes and sizes. It's an amazing change to see in our volunteers.

The second part of Star Light, that is a big part of my job, is helping church goers and non-church going people alike that ministry is not "us v. them." That the lines that we create between people shouldn't exist. When we set up a victim mentality about women who dance, we do as much damage as we do if we set them up as wanton women. The bottom line of it all is that we're all here, doing what we can to survive, and even thrive. And there are certain things a person needs to thrive: community, acceptance, and resources. We provide resources (because our circles are different, not better), acceptance, and we try to create communities (whether they be Christian communities or not) where women who dance can be assured that they won't be met with judgment.

I'd encourage you, if you have time, to check out an interview I did with NPR back in November (aired in December). There's a link for it on the home page of our website, Star Light Ministries (http://starlight-ministries.org). I'd love feedback for the future interviews! Some people have said, "I wish you had said this!" or "I wish you had said that!" but the interview was 40 minutes, and only 13 or so made it onto the show.

Lia

cameron_keys
03-22-2008, 02:46 PM
I have to say...as a non-religious person..I commend you lia for your work and mostly for your attitude!

I'm not looking for conversion or anything,but if you were in my club,I'd be happy to speak with you!Just because you seem like a cool person!