View Full Version : 20/20 prostitute show sex vs. stripping
Lysondra
03-23-2008, 06:39 PM
I might be wrong but I always felt that prostitution being legal would help women (that is if cops didn't always side with men) because then the women can report the man for solicitation, which is illegal.
I always worried that making it legal would just make it easier for men to demand more from prostitutes since it is "their job." For example, when you work in McDonalds you have duties that you HAVE to do, you can't say "I refuse to clean the toilets" because that is part of your job description. I figured legal prostitution would be the same way, you cant refuse anything because now its your job, whereas in illegal prostitution you can say NO and scare the guy by saying if he tries anything she is gonna call the cops. I am probably wrong though.
I dont know about legal prostitution in other countries but I feel like even legal prostitutes are villified in the US. the girls who work in brothels in Nevada not only have to give 50 percent of all their profits to their pimps, but they also are required to have a prostitution liscense which might show up in their permanent record. I also hear that if you refuse to have sex in the brothels you get fired and FINED... In some brothels I hear you HAVE to accept sex for a certain amount of money, even if it is too low for your tastes. Honestly the way the US is running legalized prostitution is not exactly empowering or fair to women either.
Nope not how it works. Even prostitutes who have been paid can be raped. You are told up front what they will/will not do for the money and if you break that..they break you.
SundayMorning
03-23-2008, 06:59 PM
How is this any different than sleeping with a guy on the first date?? Same risks are involved.
a.) More screening with relationship-natured sex
b.) Fewer people. If I were having sex for money, I'd hope to be having sex with a couple people a day to make it worth my while, barring some sort of long-term contract. I don't have that many dates, generally speaking. Law of numbers.
ruru123
03-24-2008, 12:14 AM
Not illegal everywhere!
It always amuses me when this topic comes up, to see so many girls here up in arms about being compared to a prostitute.
We are ALL in the sex industry people, whether you like it or not!
that wasn't my only point. and yes we are all in the sex industry, obviously, but not all of us are having sex with random men for money, with no history on them, who knows if they have HIV or herpes, and who knows if they're going to beat you up or kill you??
ruru123
03-24-2008, 12:17 AM
I beg to differ. There are some strippers that are pros. they come to the club to set up Johns. Hell some even offer it in the club. Prostitution IS legal in Nevada. IMO it Should be legalized in the rest of the U.S. Not once has a positive AIDS test came back in the legal brothel setting in Nevada. Which I agree w/ (not the whole street walking thing). If there were legal brothels there would be less violence and spread of disease.
yes some strippers are pros, and that makes them just that, a prostitute. and i agree with you, it should be legalized, but in brothels only, where there are required testing and documents of johns and the girls. and yes that would lessen the violence and diseases. i still don't think its morally right though.
ruru123
03-24-2008, 12:19 AM
So....a woman who fucks a guy for money sells her soul, but a woman who shoves her tits in a guy's face for money keeps her soul.
yeah.
I'm not passing judgment on either one. I just find it funny that anyone in the sex industry draws some imaginary line in the sand and says "I'm better than you."
There are people that lump strippers and hookers together, you know.
hell yeah buddy. im not having intercourse with a stranger for money and selling him my pussy, im selling him fantasy.
ruru123
03-24-2008, 12:20 AM
I agree with some of this and disagree with some of this too.
The main thing I agree with is the safety element. Stripping = controlled environment, people around to defend you if things get out of hand, no chance of pregnancy and next-to-no-chance of STDs (and even that is largely urban legend). While prostitution at legal establishments like the BR can say MUCH of the same, any time you're getting penetration and sex fluids involved, safety is not a guarantee. Much less in illegal venues like the street or escorts.
But value calls like "selling your soul" are totally up to the individual involved. I'm absolutely sure that there are people who are completely fine with the condition of their soul before, during and after being paid for sex.
you are completely right, and thats why i said IMO, and with my own beliefs. if it's ok with them and they can look themselves in the mirror everyday then that's all that matters, i know i couldn't, we're all different. :)
ruru123
03-24-2008, 12:21 AM
Again..just because people DO lump them together doesnt mean that they SHOULD. None are better then the other..it's just a matter of whats best for YOU. We all have our own boundries and lines we dont want to cross.
As long as the jobs stay where they should it's fine. I would never bring a camera crew in and make a porn movie in the strip club because it isnt right. Thats not where that job belongs. Just like I would never bring a pole and strip during a porn movie(unless its specifically part of the movie..lol) because thats not the job I'm there to do.
I have NO problem with prostitution. I think it should be legal and regulated to keep everyone as safe as possible. The only time I have any issue with it is when it is practiced somewhere it doesnt belong,like a strip club.
The fact that many people blur those lines and hook in the strip club for instance is what makes "civilians" think they are all the same job. They are not.
Just like police and firefighters are both civil servant jobs...but they are very different professions with very different job descriptions. And a police officer might get a bit annoyed at having to explain over and over that no,they dont come put out fires...we get annoyed when people assume we perform all 3 jobs. Doesnt mean theres anything WRONG with the other jobs...just that they arent OUR jobs.
I hope that clears things up for you...because honestly...I find it pretty insulting that I cant differentiate between the jobs without someone accusing me of thinking I'm better then someone else.
i agree with with you cam, well said.
ruru123
03-24-2008, 12:24 AM
How is this any different than sleeping with a guy on the first date?? Same risks are involved.
i don't sleep with a guy on the first date. and any guy im sleeping with isn't a john, if you are out there buying sex, it isn't your first time, and the hooker he slept with has slept with tons of men that have slept with tons of other hookers. think about it.
ruru123
03-24-2008, 12:29 AM
The point I'm trying to make is that NO ONE is better than anyone else in the sex industry, but at least one poster in this thread has openly said as much.
Trying to say that someone sells their soul when they are a hooker, but not when they strip or do porn...that's the same judgment that a right winger makes about EVERYONE in the sex industry.
Maybe I'm not making myself clear...I'll try again...
Let's say I'm talking with Cindy Sinless, the bible-thumping Religious Rightwinger down the street. She says "All those strippers and porn stars and hookers are selling their souls to men for a cheap buck."
Now, that's wrong...correct?
How is any different from a STRIPPER saying "I only strip for money...I don't sell my soul to some man by being a hooker."
There is almost no differnce. They've both drawn a line in the sand, looked across the line, and passed judgment on everyone over "there." The ONLY difference is where they each draw the line.
dude, i said "IMO", my personal boundaries, my beliefs, my morals. and in no way am i saying im better then anyone. maybe i should of worded in different. what i meant was if i slept with someone for money, i would feel like i sold my soul. and no sticking my tits in someones face, or showing my body in no way feels like im selling my soul. if it did i wouldn't do it. those are my boudaries. just like someone who couldn't imagine stripping, who thinks its degrading or inmoral....we all have different levels of comfortability.
Eric Stoner
03-24-2008, 06:59 AM
To Eric Stoner:
Your first reply to the OP:
Then I replied to the OP about the OP:
Then you replied to my reply, duplicated your general opinion, and added more to your post, but not about the OP ;
Here's my point in this additional ....
Why was it necessary for you to post that you disagreed with me? do you think that anyone else in the universe thinks it is important that we disagree? Is my opinion at a lower level of importance than yours? Is it always necessary for your opinion to WIN over all th others? Are you that desperate for attention or am I missing your reason? Actually, ignore that -- I just don't want to know.
I'm sorry. You expressed your opinion that the reporter did a good job. I disagreed and explained why I didn't think her report was fair, objective or balanced. Period.
Eric Stoner
03-24-2008, 07:02 AM
Seriously!! 2.9 mil? You're daaaaaamn right I would have graciously accepted that offer. My body does indeed have a price, it's just higher than most people are willing to spend. :P
To each his or her own. If you want to sell a year of your life to someone else to effectively own and control; go ahead.
Btw, if the escort is smart; at least half is paid up front in cash and gets put into several safe deposit boxes. The balance is paid monthly. In cash.
dancinslifoxxx17
03-24-2008, 07:21 AM
yes some strippers are pros, and that makes them just that, a prostitute. and i agree with you, it should be legalized, but in brothels only, where there are required testing and documents of johns and the girls. and yes that would lessen the violence and diseases. i still don't think its morally right though.
I totally agree
wasfatboy
03-24-2008, 08:39 AM
ok time to twist everyones mind....this is all about POV (thank you camron).
Everyone has there own pov,but nobody should push there pov on anyone.
we should each have different pov's thats what makes our world diverse.
that being said, try this little experiment: go back to the beginning of this thread, and instead of sex workers or sex industry. replace all referances with positions or actions from a different industry that you do or dont approve of (like a cattle slaughter house). there are various levels in any industry, not every level is for everyone. and some people do not approve of certain industries.
try it you will be surprised it may change how you project you opinions on others.
cameron_keys
03-24-2008, 08:53 AM
OK..this is JUST ME. I'm clarifying that so I dont get accused of thinking I"m "better"
then anyone else.
I strip. I"m comfortable with that.
I do porn. I'm comfortable with that.
I do not prostitute. That is MY personal boundry. Anything that intimate is saved for my husband or friends we swing with. Anything TRULY intimate is saved for my husband ONLY. I dont like POV porn because its one on one and breaks those intimacy bounds. I dont like the feeling of being intimate with someone I dont WANT to have sex with(not that I'm forced to have sex with my co-stars,but if it werent business I wouldnt. Well..maybe ONE or TWO that I actually had chemistry with!I haven't had sex with them off camera,but I've invited one to a swingers party we threw..it got canceled but I would have been fine having sex with him there.These two particular guys I've shot with several times and had a BLAST..I consider them friends now. I would have invited the other guy too,but he lives in LA. I adore them!). But porn is just a job and EVERYONE there knows that. There are no feelings of intimacy when there are cameramen,crew people and directors dictating how we move,what we say and scrutinizing every move.I don't have to pretend I like the guy or am attracted to him. Its an acting job and we all know that.
I wouldn't feel comfortable hooking..partly because of the safety issues of being alone with a stranger that you have no idea how he will act when you are alone and you know you have no legal leg to stand on if they do something you arent comfortable with,partly because of the intimacy issues.
Thats why I draw MY line where I do.
Some prostitutes wouldn't feel comfortable stripping...one on one they can deal with...an entire club full of attention and trying to sell themselves and their services(dancing) would stress them out.
Many strippers wouldn't be comfortable doing porn OR hooking..they draw their line at having true sexual contact.
Many prostitutes wouldn't be comfortable doing porn..they would lose their anonymity being on camera for all to see.
So none is BETTER...its just a matter of what you are comfortable with.
Most people in the world wouldnt be comfortable doing any of these jobs.My non industry friends would never do any of them...but they dont judge me because I do.They dont think they are "better" because they have "normal" jobs and I dont think I'm "better" because I have fan clubs and strangers profess their love to me. Its simply a different career choice. I wouldnt be comfortable sitting in an office 9-5 M-F for crap money. But many people are perfectly happy with it. Thats the great thing about CHOICE...you do what makes you comfortable and happy.
cameron_keys
03-24-2008, 09:02 AM
Mr Hyde..you truly insulted me and I'd appreciate an apology. I'd like to think you've been here long enough and know me well enough to know that I'm not some judgemental holier-then-thou bitch.
threlayer
03-24-2008, 09:19 AM
I'm sorry. You expressed your opinion that the reporter did a good job. I disagreed and explained why I didn't think her report was fair, objective or balanced. Period.
I know exactly what you did. You already expressed that opinion to the group.
I wasn't disagreeing with YOU; I was only expressing my opinion too. You didn't have to disagree with me; after all, the SHOW was the issue, at least to the rest of us. Not agreeing with ME wasn't the issue, unless you were trying to force me (and the rest of us) to agree with you, which I have seen you do here repeatedly. I need not explain this again.
Eric Stoner
03-24-2008, 09:33 AM
I know exactly what you did. You already expressed that opinion to the group.
I wasn't disagreeing with YOU; I was only expressing my opinion too. You didn't have to disagree with me; after all, the SHOW was the issue, at least to the rest of us. Not agreeing with ME wasn't the issue, unless you were trying to force me (and the rest of us) to agree with you, which I have seen you do here repeatedly. I need not explain this again.
Could you please go a little bit slower ? How could I possibly "force" you or anyone else to agree with me ?
You have your opinion. You are entitled to same. Afaic it's a valid one. I simply chose to disagree. Why is that SO upsetting to you ?
ruru123
03-24-2008, 01:35 PM
::)
So....a woman who fucks a guy for money sells her soul, but a woman who shoves her tits in a guy's face for money keeps her soul.
yeah.
I'm not passing judgment on either one. I just find it funny that anyone in the sex industry draws some imaginary line in the sand and says "I'm better than you."
There are people that lump strippers and hookers together, you know.
not to be rude, becuz i don't know you. but your not a women, and definately not a stripper or a prostitute or a porn star, so you don't have true knowledge of this at all.
and you're totally mis reading everyone's posts, no one said they are better then anyone else. we all said it's about choice and boundaries and opinions.
iluvbjork
03-24-2008, 10:48 PM
Not everybody does that either.
I hope you are not talking about yourself since you admitted in other posts that you are a swinger and even look for sex partners on the internet...
I know not everyone does that, but a lot of girls saying that "omg prostitution is something i could NEVER DO! do...and I'm not just talking about fucking a stranger, I mean any type of casual sex. If you're going to have sex with someone you don't care about might as well get paid for it.
a.) More screening with relationship-natured sex
Is there? Plenty of independent escorts screen their clients thoroughly while plenty of girls go out on a date with a stranger or meet a guy at a bar and have sex with him the same day.
who knows if they have HIV or herpes, and who knows if they're going to beat you up or kill you??
HIV--- thats what condoms are for
as for herpes, 20 percent of people have it (the genital form, way more have the oral form) and 90 percent of people infected don't know they have it. You don't know if the guy is going to kill you or beat you up when going on a date either. I have been on dates that have almost ended in me getting raped. Its not just prostitutes.
and any guy im sleeping with isn't a john,
And you know this how? he may very well be a former "hobbiest"
You cant say that just because you're not a hooker you arent sleeping with scummy men. Scummy men have free sex too.
hooker he slept with has slept with tons of men that have slept with tons of other hookers. think about it.
Same goes with any guy who doesnt buy hookers. Plenty of men have lots of free promiscuous sex with lots of promiscuous girls who have been around the block and have been giving away their pussy for free. Why is it different if it was a girl who got paid for it? its not...
threlayer
03-25-2008, 07:45 AM
Simple; it is the 'laws'. Politicians pass laws for many political reasons, and sometimes little else, and we think obeying those laws makes us 'moral.' Years ago, in the USA prostitution was not illegal in many places, nor were many drugs. But things do change in time and politicians have to make laws - it's their job. That's not what morality is.
If they passed laws that stated we could not eat in public, and that it had to be in private or in a private 'club', would we then think it is immoral to eat in public? I suppose, in time, we would.
Now, there are reasons for limiting prostitution, such as social stability. Religious interest groups have had strong influence on this too. Interestingly, the First Amendment should allow them little influence on legislation, but it does anyway. But a single person, of which there are many more than when the laws were passed, for example, would not contribute to social problems if visiting a prostitute. Well, there could be health reasons, but there always has been. But laws are indiscriminate.
cameron_keys
03-25-2008, 08:09 AM
I hope you are not talking about yourself since you admitted in other posts that you are a swinger and even look for sex partners on the internet...
I know not everyone does that, but a lot of girls saying that "omg prostitution is something i could NEVER DO! do...and I'm not just talking about fucking a stranger, I mean any type of casual sex. If you're going to have sex with someone you don't care about might as well get paid for it.
.
NO I wasnt talking about myself..obviously. And I dont "look for sex partners on the internet". We are members of groups that allow us to meet people, make friends and decide whether or not we want to swing with them. We arent just trolling the internet for random sex hook ups. You really dont know what a swinger is. And your incorrect assumptions(which you dont seem willing to let go of,even though several people have tried to educate you) are extremely irritating and insulting.
LadyLuck
03-25-2008, 11:47 AM
Overall I thought it was a well done program considering the allowed limits of broadcast tv.
I also think that prostitution should be legalized and regulated to help limit the problems that occur. Will it end all the negatives? No, but I believe it will go a long way to lessen them. I believe that the legal brothels in NV prove that to be the case.
I feel that there are plenty of similarities between prostitution, porn and stripping. There are differences too though. Mostly in the areas of risk and/or reward.
There are things I would never do, lines I will not cross but I try not to judge others who make different choices. I do not always succeed in not passing any judgments but I do really try to keep an open mind.
ruru123
03-25-2008, 12:57 PM
I hope you are not talking about yourself since you admitted in other posts that you are a swinger and even look for sex partners on the internet...
I know not everyone does that, but a lot of girls saying that "omg prostitution is something i could NEVER DO! do...and I'm not just talking about fucking a stranger, I mean any type of casual sex. If you're going to have sex with someone you don't care about might as well get paid for it.
Is there? Plenty of independent escorts screen their clients thoroughly while plenty of girls go out on a date with a stranger or meet a guy at a bar and have sex with him the same day.
HIV--- thats what condoms are for
as for herpes, 20 percent of people have it (the genital form, way more have the oral form) and 90 percent of people infected don't know they have it. You don't know if the guy is going to kill you or beat you up when going on a date either. I have been on dates that have almost ended in me getting raped. Its not just prostitutes.
And you know this how? he may very well be a former "hobbiest"
You cant say that just because you're not a hooker you arent sleeping with scummy men. Scummy men have free sex too.
Same goes with any guy who doesnt buy hookers. Plenty of men have lots of free promiscuous sex with lots of promiscuous girls who have been around the block and have been giving away their pussy for free. Why is it different if it was a girl who got paid for it? its not...
you must be a dude.
and yes, IM NOT A HOOKER, and im not sleeping with scummy men. yes i can say that, ::) . yes scummy men have free sex too, but i can point them out in a second, it's called smarts.
ummm condoms DON'T protect 100%, EVERYONE knows that. what if it breaks? where are you getting your numbers and %'s from? you are way off. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that prostitutes and john's are more susceptible to STD's, including, and MORE so herpes, because the condom can't cover the entire gential area, and you can catch herpes with out a break out, that is how MOST of them are spread, WITHOUT a break out. educate yourself.
and if you've been in dates that have almost ended in you getting raped, then im sorry for you, of course that happens to people. hopefully not alot.
and again everyone knows that prositutes are again, more susceptible to those kind of risks, by getting into a car with a handful of men a night, or in a hotel room alone with a stranger a couple times a night. you have no idea what could happen. period.
your debating is starting to insult people. please do not do that. and please come with a more educated comeback next time.
Most guys I know with STDs caught them from "nice girls" who had unprotected sex a few times. Not too many from condoms malfunctioning.
If I had to place a bet, I'd bet on the slut/higher class hooker being cleaner than the naive nice girl.
As an outsider, seeing strippers moralize at prostitutes and porn stars has always been amusing to me.
I don't look down upon prostitutes, but I think johns are pretty terrible. Same for strip club customers. They should focus on the customer side on the next special.
Optimist
03-25-2008, 01:12 PM
you must be a dude.
I have to admit, I waas starting to think the same thing! Either way it does seem the poster is bending over backwards to argue instead of exchange and assimilate info.:-\
LilyLove
03-25-2008, 01:59 PM
If I had to place a bet, I'd bet on the slut/higher class hooker being cleaner than the naive nice girl.
I have to agree with this. I know so many young, "can count their number of sex partners on one hand" girls who don't know squat about std's. They are naive and think that that type of thing can't happen to them because they aren't "sluts." The escorts I know know a lot about std's and how to protect themselves.
smartcookie
03-25-2008, 05:23 PM
Oooh, this is a loaded issue for me, as anybody who knows me and my background.
I think it's all about finding one's individual comfort level. Some people have different definitions of what actually constitutes prostitution, and that's ok. What I don't like is casting aspersions on other women in the sex industry. Sex work is difficult. It's emotionally and physically taxing. But I wish women would try to resist the impulse to pat themselves on the back and feel superior to other women for their personal choices. To the majority of the public, we're all shit. So let's try to look out for one another instead of clawing over our position on the totem pole.
I absolutely agree with what Katrine said, too. The status quo guarantees that that men can't be held liable for their actions. I have a problem with the legalization scenario, however. If prostitutes should be required by law to be tested for STDs, why shouldn't johns? They're the ones who demand or insist unsafe activities, after all.
Last, girls, remember: it doesn't matter what you know about the sex industry from firsthand experience. Eric Stoner knows more. Because, like, he reads things on the internet. He's an expert. Don't question it.*
I really don't care if I get points, but seriously, WTF. Can't we take a general vote to ban him and send him to the internet home for blowhard pontificating losers?
You'd be in the room right next to him.
Kaiyla
03-25-2008, 06:27 PM
For me personally, prostitution is not something that I feel right doing, HOWEVER, I could never sit here and pretend as if I am not part of a group that some people do do believe are doing something morally wrong. Even though prostitution is not something I choose to engage in, I do not judge myself as superior over those who do engage in it.
jester214
03-25-2008, 06:52 PM
Oooh, this is a loaded issue for me, as anybody who knows me and my background.
I think it's all about finding one's individual comfort level. Some people have different definitions of what actually constitutes prostitution, and that's ok. What I don't like is casting aspersions on other women in the sex industry. Sex work is difficult. It's emotionally and physically taxing. But I wish women would try to resist the impulse to pat themselves on the back and feel superior to other women for their personal choices. To the majority of the public, we're all shit. So let's try to look out for one another instead of clawing over our position on the totem pole.
I absolutely agree with what Katrine said, too. The status quo guarantees that that men can't be held liable for their actions. I have a problem with the legalization scenario, however. If prostitutes should be required by law to be tested for STDs, why shouldn't johns? They're the ones who demand or insist unsafe activities, after all.
Last, girls, remember: it doesn't matter what you know about the sex industry from firsthand experience. Eric Stoner knows more. Because, like, he reads things on the internet. He's an expert. Don't question it.*
I really don't care if I get points, but seriously, WTF. Can't we take a general vote to ban him and send him to the internet home for blowhard pontificating losers?
Wow I was really impressed and actually nodding my head in agreement, and then BAM. I don't understand what he had to do with anything in your post, it sounds much better and legit without those last two sections. But then again me and Eric are once in the same;D ...
ruru123
03-25-2008, 07:46 PM
I have to agree with this. I know so many young, "can count their number of sex partners on one hand" girls who don't know squat about std's. They are naive and think that that type of thing can't happen to them because they aren't "sluts." The escorts I know know a lot about std's and how to protect themselves.
yes of course they know alot about std's and how to protect themselves, that isn't the arguement. it's that they at more of risk, then your average naive young girl.
Lysondra
03-25-2008, 07:50 PM
yes of course they know alot about std's and how to protect themselves, that isn't the arguement. it's that they at more of risk, then your average naive young girl.
Not always. Most prozzies I know do a visual check before taking on a client as well as having protection as well as getting a checkup every 3 months... the nine yards. While Little Miss SunShine Out My Ass is like TEEHEE BUT HE LOVES ME SO WE DON'T USE CONDOMS.... WHAT'S AIDS?!
ruru123
03-25-2008, 07:52 PM
Oooh, this is a loaded issue for me, as anybody who knows me and my background.
I think it's all about finding one's individual comfort level. Some people have different definitions of what actually constitutes prostitution, and that's ok. What I don't like is casting aspersions on other women in the sex industry. Sex work is difficult. It's emotionally and physically taxing. But I wish women would try to resist the impulse to pat themselves on the back and feel superior to other women for their personal choices. To the majority of the public, we're all shit. So let's try to look out for one another instead of clawing over our position on the totem pole.
I absolutely agree with what Katrine said, too. The status quo guarantees that that men can't be held liable for their actions. I have a problem with the legalization scenario, however. If prostitutes should be required by law to be tested for STDs, why shouldn't johns? They're the ones who demand or insist unsafe activities, after all.
Last, girls, remember: it doesn't matter what you know about the sex industry from firsthand experience. Eric Stoner knows more. Because, like, he reads things on the internet. He's an expert. Don't question it.*
I really don't care if I get points, but seriously, WTF. Can't we take a general vote to ban him and send him to the internet home for blowhard pontificating losers?
i totally agree with your whole post. and very much agree with what ur saying about eric stoner, i wish most of the men would just lurk and stay outta our threads, or just post in customer. this is a STRIPPER FORUM, we just dealt with men all night at work and we want to have some girl talk, (well me atleast) and posting in areas you have no REAL LIFE experience in, and making points in just ridiculous.
disclaimer - i don't dislike all the men on here, i just wish that you'd post in threads where we're on the same level.
ruru123
03-25-2008, 07:53 PM
Not always. Most prozzies I know do a visual check before taking on a client as well as having protection as well as getting a checkup every 3 months... the nine yards. While Little Miss SunShine Out My Ass is like TEEHEE BUT HE LOVES ME SO WE DON'T USE CONDOMS.... WHAT'S AIDS?!
a visual check isn't going to see AIDS or most std's. and i don't know anyone that doesn't know about AIDS these days. but i get what ur saying but i don't totally agree.
Lysondra
03-25-2008, 08:00 PM
a visual check isn't going to see AIDS or most std's. and i don't know anyone that doesn't know about AIDS these days. but i get what ur saying but i don't totally agree.
A visual check is going to help prevent STDs that are skin on skin... AIDS is a purely blood/semen contact disease and the condoms prevent that... nearly all skin on skin contact diseases are visible to the naked eye and only transferable in an outbreak. Also, if a condom breaks, something slips... anything.. the prositute HAS to go to a gyno in two weeks and two months after the incident to see if she had anything. From what I hear, it's the most terrifying two months for them...
And I do know people who don't know what AIDS is... or how to get it.
LilyLove
03-25-2008, 08:47 PM
Not always. Most prozzies I know do a visual check before taking on a client as well as having protection as well as getting a checkup every 3 months... the nine yards. While Little Miss SunShine Out My Ass is like TEEHEE BUT HE LOVES ME SO WE DON'T USE CONDOMS.... WHAT'S AIDS?!
Exactly. I know so many "nice" girls who don't use condoms because ya know, they only sleep with "nice" boys. In fact, a lot people think that people who have STDs are a certain "type."
LadyLuck
03-25-2008, 08:58 PM
I think it's all about finding one's individual comfort level. Some people have different definitions of what actually constitutes prostitution, and that's ok. What I don't like is casting aspersions on other women in the sex industry. Sex work is difficult. It's emotionally and physically taxing. But I wish women would try to resist the impulse to pat themselves on the back and feel superior to other women for their personal choices. To the majority of the public, we're all shit. So let's try to look out for one another instead of clawing over our position on the totem pole.
I absolutely agree with what Katrine said, too. The status quo guarantees that that men can't be held liable for their actions. I have a problem with the legalization scenario, however. If prostitutes should be required by law to be tested for STDs, why shouldn't johns? They're the ones who demand or insist unsafe activities, after all.
Last, girls, remember: it doesn't matter what you know about the sex industry from firsthand experience. Eric Stoner knows more. Because, like, he reads things on the internet. He's an expert. Don't question it.*
I really don't care if I get points, but seriously, WTF. Can't we take a general vote to ban him and send him to the internet home for blowhard pontificating losers?
Wonderful post!!! I agree about the men needing to get tested too. Maybe they should have to get a permit to participate just like the women do in the NV legal brothels.
Also about the last part. I wonder if there is a democratic way to go about getting such a vote option. Any of the long time members know?
Lysondra
03-25-2008, 09:24 PM
It is purely unfeasable to test men for STDs at brothels. Expense. Who they slept with after the test was taken. If they attracted something before they took the test that didn't show up. Names and records kept on file. Doing it between each hooker. Again, expense.
Golden_Rule
03-25-2008, 09:38 PM
I think theres a world of difference between entertaining and teasing and actually having sex for money.It may be an easy line to cross for some,but that line is incredibly important.
Totally agree with the notion that the line is very important.
Totally disagree if you mean to imply that it isn't all sex work and therefore there are no correlations between the various forms.
BTW, I apply that equally to the other side of the equation.
IE, customers are all "sex consumers". Ergo there are correlations between men who get "just dances [even air dances] and "johns".
Golden_Rule
03-25-2008, 09:42 PM
I don't find dancing intimate at the level that sex is. I don't really care so much about boob touching, but booty groping makes me feel icky.
I also would be uncomfortable with a one on one contact, like prostitution is. And with the custy being naked.
ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with the applying of personal preferences to define personal boundaries.
Just as long as one understands that these things are subjective and your "icky" is just fine with someone else and the fact that you'd feel bad about going there doesn't mean you should make them feel bad about going there.
[A mistake I see happen time and time again on SW, where some folks like to take their personal boundries and whack other folks about the head with them. NO REFLECTION on your post though. Just saying it happens, not that I think you were doing it.]
Golden_Rule
03-25-2008, 09:51 PM
I think Sawyer did a LOUSY job. Most prostitution is a creature of the Internet but there was very little about that.
Eric, I'd have to ask you where you got that idea?
In fact, state and federal criminal statistics suggest very little prostitution is internet based. Just the tip of the iceberg really. Asian massage parlors girls along, most of which never show themselves on the internet [though there are sites of customers who discuss them] probably out number "webscorts".
The web also certainly had some impact as police presence drove the street trade off the streets in some communities and onto CL, but street prostitutes still vastly outnumber the working gals whose presence dots the pages of Craig's Lists "erotic services" and "Casual Encounters" sections combined.
I think, if you check into it, you'll find there is no evidence to support the notion that the majority of the prostitution biz has gone digital.
Golden_Rule
03-25-2008, 10:12 PM
^ thats ok, but i really would like to know yall's opinions on the topic :)
ALL sex work has components that make their various aspects relatable on those levels.
ALL sex work has variants that cause them to be different than other areas of sex work.
Examples of the former are the general lack of acceptance within our society.
To a 'straight' person ALL sex work is "dirty" and those who partake in it are "dirty". They very seldom tend to differentiate between what kind of sex work a person is involved with. The fact that it is sex work is sufficient for the stigma to apply.
Another is that all ALL sex work involves the sexuality of one person being used to stimulate the libido of another where the one being stimulated pays the stimulator for the privilege.
Impact to the workers vary according to degree of tolerance. This is effected by too many factors to get into. The fact that there is impact though is another thing that is shared by ALL forms of sex work.
Ways that they differ are many but most go to the level of access allowed, or the number of individuals allowed.
For instance. So called "clean" dancers who do only "air dances" allow much less access to their body than those who provide various extras though both may supply their services to many people.
While hardcore porn actors allow very similar levels of access to their bodies, some even quite a bit more, as prostitutes migh they, in general, have a much more limited number of people doing the accessing. Frequently they also have much greater control over who those people are going to be as well.
So it becomes clear, from a work based stand-point, that while all forms of sex work share some basic functions, social impact and personal ramifications there are levels of this determined by what specific form of sex work the individual finds themselves involved with, as well as the individual tolerance levels of the specific people involved.
Golden_Rule
03-25-2008, 10:28 PM
first of all porn is ACTING, with another actor that has been tested for diseases, you are not selling your soul in porn, you're not risking you life with sleeping or being alone with a stranger, or risk your life with a STD, or doing any illegal.
That is a highly subjective response based totally on personal preference.
At what level someone 'sells their soul" is a very personal thing and you can't define it for anyone but yourself.
stripping is NOTHING like prostitution, there's no intercourse or exchange or a disease, you're in a public setting with bouncers and patrons, you are safe and it's legal.
I beg to differ again. Stripping shares, as sex work, certain aspects of its nature that is similar to prostitution. How much may differ from individual to individual, or it may depend upon where a legal line is crossed. That would depend upon one's POV.
What isn't a matter of POV though are the very real social ramification each share. Unless you think, and you'd be wrong if you did, that the majority of 'straight' people see a major difference between the two professions.
If you care to test it walk into a social function populated by strangers who consider themselves god fearing "straight" souls and announce "I am a Stripper" and then go to another and announce "I am a Prostitute" and see if the response you get is much different in either.
I'm not saying that because I think its right that should be the case. I am saying it because it is the current social reality. Maybe folks will become more enlightened someday, but don't hold your breath waiting for it.
And again I wish to point out that it works the same for the clients of the sex industry.
A man walking into that same social function and announcing "I give money to Strippers" isn't going to get a different cold shoulder than the man who announces "I give money to Prostitutes" in that same room.
iluvbjork
03-25-2008, 10:29 PM
NO I wasnt talking about myself..obviously. And I dont "look for sex partners on the internet". We are members of groups that allow us to meet people, make friends and decide whether or not we want to swing with them. We arent just trolling the internet for random sex hook ups. You really dont know what a swinger is. And your incorrect assumptions(which you dont seem willing to let go of,even though several people have tried to educate you) are extremely irritating and insulting.
Okay now I can't believe anything you say because I saw a thread where you were discussing how you were looking for partners to swing with via craigslist. Please stop denying stuff. I'm not "assuming" I am saying this based on threads you have participated in where you have clearly stated that you posted in the casual encounters section looking for hookups. I do not see this as any better than a hooker posting an ad on the internet and finding her johns through there.
Here it is
iluvbjork
03-25-2008, 10:39 PM
you must be a dude.
and yes, IM NOT A HOOKER, and im not sleeping with scummy men. yes i can say that, ::) . yes scummy men have free sex too, but i can point them out in a second, it's called smarts.
ummm condoms DON'T protect 100%, EVERYONE knows that. what if it breaks? where are you getting your numbers and %'s from? you are way off. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that prostitutes and john's are more susceptible to STD's, including, and MORE so herpes, because the condom can't cover the entire gential area, and you can catch herpes with out a break out, that is how MOST of them are spread, WITHOUT a break out. educate yourself.
and if you've been in dates that have almost ended in you getting raped, then im sorry for you, of course that happens to people. hopefully not alot.
and again everyone knows that prositutes are again, more susceptible to those kind of risks, by getting into a car with a handful of men a night, or in a hotel room alone with a stranger a couple times a night. you have no idea what could happen. period.
your debating is starting to insult people. please do not do that. and please come with a more educated comeback next time.
If you werent sleeping with scummy dudes you wouldnt be having casual sex, aside from that I highly doubt that someone that uses the word "smarts" to talk about intelligence would really be able to point out scummy dudes in a second.
Condoms protect you 98 percent of the time. The other 2 percent it breaks because you were dumb enough to use something like baby oil that breaks down the latex.
And stds dont only happen to johns and prostitutes. You are just as likely to catch it from a guy you thinks is amazing and that isnt paying you as you are from a guy who is paying you. There is very little difference. In fact, a lot of guys who pay for sex are often inexperienced or virgins. Lots of guys who get free sex get it because they are in high demand and therefore have more partners= more likely to have stds.
Johns and prostitutes arent more likely to catch stds. Johns may be people who have had sex with 1000 people or with just one person (the prostitute they bought). A prostitute may do it one time or she may do it a million times. They are just as likely to have an std as anyone else. It should have more to do with the number of partners they had and less to do with their career choice. Everyone who has ever had sex is super likely to have herpes for the reason you stated. It only takes one partner. Some people have thousands of partners and never catch it. Others have one and catch it their first time having sex.
When did i ever ever say that you needed a breakout to spread herpes? Again, this proves my theory on your usage of "smarts" correct.
iluvbjork
03-25-2008, 10:43 PM
a visual check isn't going to see AIDS or most std's. and i don't know anyone that doesn't know about AIDS these days. but i get what ur saying but i don't totally agree.
For someone who was telling me to get educated you sure don't seem very educated yourself. AIDS is not an STD. its a collection of symptoms as a result of having a weakened immune system. The virus you are talking about that CAN be spread via sex but is not SOLELY an std, is called HIV.
but you're right, a visual check isnt going to do shit and i hate when people think that its okay to have sex if the person "looks" clean.
iluvbjork
03-25-2008, 10:46 PM
nearly all skin on skin contact diseases are visible to the naked eye and only transferable in an outbreak. .
Wow, I don't know where you are getting your information from but I really hope no one takes it as blind truth. Ever hear of asymptotic shedding? The reason most people with skin diseases like herpes dont even know they have it is because their partners never showed symptoms and THEY dont show symptoms either. trust me, 20 percent of the population with type 2 herpes didn't get it because they were too stupid to check.
LilyLove
03-25-2008, 10:47 PM
^ You have some good points, Iluvbjork, but your rudeness is clouding them over. Using "smarts" for "intelligence" is colloquial. Its just a phrase. Um, kind of like "luv" in your screen name.
Nini Nieb
03-25-2008, 10:52 PM
I absolutely agree with what Katrine said, too. The status quo guarantees that that men can't be held liable for their actions. I have a problem with the legalization scenario, however. If prostitutes should be required by law to be tested for STDs, why shouldn't johns? They're the ones who demand or insist unsafe activities, after all.
I don't know much about the law in USA. I guees it's like in most countrys. Prostitution is illegal but the law is not enforced that hard.
Sweden has taking another route to discourage prostitution. In Sweden it's crinminal for the customer to go to a prostitute. If busted he has to go to trial/jail. The prostitute go free.
That will teach him a lesson !? I dunno ... In the case of Elliot Spitzer I don't think it would have made a big differece }:D
So on this point I somehwat have to disagree ... Great post though :)
ruru123
03-25-2008, 11:18 PM
If you werent sleeping with scummy dudes you wouldnt be having casual sex, aside from that I highly doubt that someone that uses the word "smarts" to talk about intelligence would really be able to point out scummy dudes in a second.
Condoms protect you 98 percent of the time. The other 2 percent it breaks because you were dumb enough to use something like baby oil that breaks down the latex.
And stds dont only happen to johns and prostitutes. You are just as likely to catch it from a guy you thinks is amazing and that isnt paying you as you are from a guy who is paying you. There is very little difference. In fact, a lot of guys who pay for sex are often inexperienced or virgins. Lots of guys who get free sex get it because they are in high demand and therefore have more partners= more likely to have stds.
Johns and prostitutes arent more likely to catch stds. Johns may be people who have had sex with 1000 people or with just one person (the prostitute they bought). A prostitute may do it one time or she may do it a million times. They are just as likely to have an std as anyone else. It should have more to do with the number of partners they had and less to do with their career choice. Everyone who has ever had sex is super likely to have herpes for the reason you stated. It only takes one partner. Some people have thousands of partners and never catch it. Others have one and catch it their first time having sex.
When did i ever ever say that you needed a breakout to spread herpes? Again, this proves my theory on your usage of "smarts" correct.
you are a moron. plain and simple. you have little valid points. seriously. i don't know where you're from but using the word "smarts" is a everyday word.
it's called increasing your risk if when you have multiple sex partners with men that sleep with hookers that have multiple sex partners. im done debating with you because you're simply annoying.
but one quote you said.... "lots of guys who get free sex get it because they are in high demand and there for have more partners...." that right there just proved how "intelligent" you really are NOT. lmao
you are obviously a man, a john or a prostitute really trying to make light of your risks. hilarious.
carry on....