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SundayMorning
03-27-2008, 08:13 PM
I really can't believe this thread got so out of control.

Seriously. I don't think anybody here looks down on people who exchange sex for money. Several people say that it is not for them, but I have not seen ANy universal condemning people who choose to do it! That's the crux of the matter. Wouldn't do it myself, but if that's what makes you happy, knock yourself out. End of discussion. The end. Finito. Shaddup, ya damn argumentative-for-the-sake-of-being-argumentative arguers!

Eric Stoner
03-28-2008, 06:40 AM
I had casual sex with Eric Stoner, at a private party, where I made a million dollars doing airdances. After I made my million, I flashed everyone at the party and gave them free lapdances the rest of the night.

Hey ! I thought that was "our little secret". Blabber-poster !

psst. it was so dark she didn't notice I paid her with Monopoly money but please don't tell her.

Eric Stoner
03-28-2008, 06:51 AM
Why have none of them come to your defense publicly, here in this thread or elsewhere?

Why have none of them ever had any feedback (not just positive or negative, but any feedback at all) to report about these private parties you purport to organize?

Much like your "expert knowledge" of sex work and "insider status", your self-perception vis-a-vis how much your input here is appreciated by the women here is not very grounded in reality.

As a rule, it's wise to take those who catalog their supposed credentials ad nauseum, ad infinitum with a very large dish of salt.

You'll have to ask them. Probably because they're: A. too busy or B. prefer their anonymity ( they KNOW I'm NOT going to out them ) C. figure I'm a big boy and can handle a few skeptics by myself or most likely- they just can't be bothered.

All I do is pass along information. If you don't want it, that's fine. Buona fortuna !
If you don't agree with my opinions, that's perfectly alright as well.

I don't know where I EVER held myself out as some sort of "expert". As far as being an "insider"I do know a lot of folks in the biz but rather than argue why don't you join hands with RuRu123 and the next time I get a PM inquiring about a PP in N.Y. or "The Circuit" in L.A. I'll just refer them to you. You can give them the benefit of your superior knowledge and wisdom and no matter what you say it will be coming from A DANCER ! assuring its value and infallibility.

iluvbjork
03-28-2008, 10:50 AM
ohhh iluvbjork, u are a MAN. its so obvious. and if by the slight chance u are a female then why aren't you a prosistute then? if u think its so easy, safe and "why not?" attitude. pls stop posting, everytime you do u make urself sound more retarded then ur last post. find something better to do with ur time then coming on here and argueing points. isn't there a new bjork cd u can be listening to or something? lol. pathetic loser.


Um if i was a man wouldnt i think casual sex girls and free flasher girls gone wild girls are awesome? after all men are stingy and want the most for nothing

I never said prostitution was easy, FOR ME, but if youre already having casual sex it MUST be easy. Unfortunately im too tight to even have relationship sex so sex period is not EASY for me. if it was then hell yeah i'd be a hooker.

iluvbjork
03-28-2008, 10:56 AM
I like casual sex, flashing, and giving free lapdances-to my friends outside of a stripclub, mostly my female friends.

I guess I'm a pathetic skank. Or...maybe some of us are just highly sexual beings that enjoy sharing and flaunting our sexuality. It doesn't have to be limited as a transactional commodity.

Troll...do you wear hijab everywhere but the SC where you are making bundles off stripping for the customers? I think not. Why am I even responding to this?

Oh yeah, I just wanted to share my enjoyment of casual sex, flashing, and giving my girlfriends free lapdances on my bed. ;)

why share it and flaunt it for free when you can get paid for it? Maybe you like giving stuff away for free but not everyone does. I realize my boobs and vagina are worth money so unless Im dating someone im not going to go around showing them for free because then the asking price will diminish. Why would a man go to a strip club if he can see and touch live boobs for free at a club or a beach? sorry but the more slutty girls there are the more they ruin it for sex workers who try to profit off using their bodies. Ever wonder why young guys especially think theyre too good to buy lap dances? Because they can get em FREE at any night club! from girls just as or even better looking than the stripper asking them.
And i remember reading a thread out hear that i think auddry started about "escorting" where the guys were paying simply for company, and she mentioned there were some girls along that were not getting paid and ended up putting on a free show for them, making out, flashing, etc. Everyone agreed that these girls were sad and pathetic. I dont see how this is more sad and pathetic than having casual sex. If youre going to act like a sex toy, might as well get paid for it.

SundayMorning
03-28-2008, 10:58 AM
Maybe because we don't want to be working all the time? Sex is enjoyable. Yeah getting money is enjoyable too but I think, for ME anyway, that I wouldn't enjoy sex as much if I had to make it about a transaction every time I wanted some.

Jenny
03-28-2008, 11:15 AM
If youre going to act like a sex toy, might as well get paid for it.I think the obvious answer to that would be that she is not acting like a sex toy; she is acting like a person who enjoys sex.

xdamage
03-28-2008, 11:20 AM
...Why would a man go to a strip club if he can see and touch live boobs for free at a club or a beach? sorry but the more slutty girls there are the more they ruin it for sex workers who try to profit off using their bodies. ...



...If youre going to act like a sex toy, might as well get paid for it.

Yet there is tremendous irony in your viewpoint.

The fact remains though that sex between people and animals pre-dates your desire to capitalize on it by several hundred million years. So you have to keep in mind your viewpoint is the unsual one.

The irony is that many argue the reverse with regards to objectification. Many have argued that selling sex contributes to objectification think. That by making it a commodity, for sale, it contributes to the idea that men can see women's bodies as objects to be bought, used, sold, for sexual pleasure and nothing more, versus as seeing them human beings.

The funny thing though is you have made a leap of logic here which I disagree with. You said "If youre going to act like a sex toy". Has it occurred to you that women do have brains? That they can make choices for themselves with full knowledge of what they are choosing? See if it has, it might have occurred to you that they are not acting like a "sex toy" at all, but simply being humans, doing something they enjoy in full conscious, a choice made for their own pleasure.

Sure, that may hurt your business but that's just "me me me, I want the world to change for ME" thinking. The world won't, so get over it.

SundayMorning
03-28-2008, 11:54 AM
No no, you two....don't just offer your thoughts up for free! I'm totally scoring free brain candy! You could be charging for that sexy gray matter. You're having thoughts anyway, why not charge for them? What's wrong with you?!

Golden_Rule
03-31-2008, 04:12 PM
The irony is that many argue the reverse with regards to objectification. Many have argued that selling sex contributes to objectification think. That by making it a commodity, for sale, it contributes to the idea that men can see women's bodies as objects to be bought, used, sold, for sexual pleasure and nothing more, versus as seeing them human beings.

This should be a weak argument but unfortunately it isn't.

Men who work at hard, labor intensive, jobs are seen as pack animals by some people [frequently those who employee them].

Both are wrong.

It is merely a matter of social perception. Its not fact. Change the perception and the whole thing becomes a moot point.

Easier said than done though.

Katrine
03-31-2008, 06:27 PM
psst. it was so dark she didn't notice I paid her with Monopoly money but please don't tell her.

That's ok! After I left, I immediately bought Park Place. I'm rich, biatch! :P

Katrine
03-31-2008, 06:31 PM
f youre going to act like a sex toy, might as well get paid for it.

Sometimes, when I have sex with two women at once, I like to be used like a dildo, and even referred to as "dildo". So yes, sometimes I do indeed behave like a sex toy. In fact, I AM the sex toy. Its pretty fucking hot.

Perhaps your "tight" ass should indulge in fun stuff a little more often.

Eric Stoner
04-01-2008, 08:52 AM
That's ok! After I left, I immediately bought Park Place. I'm rich, biatch! :P

And so ends another thrilling episode of " Theatre of the Mind."
Tune in tomorrow when Katrine will buy herself a new car using only strip club "funny money". Happy motoring !

Golden_Rule
04-03-2008, 10:35 AM
Why have none of them come to your defense publicly, here in this thread or elsewhere?

OK... I have to say something simply because common sense needs to be served.

There are always more than one way to skin a cat and you DON'T always have to be something to learn a significant amount about it. So much, in fact, that you might well be qualified to comment on it.

By way of example: Someone who learns to duck by getting hit in the head.

Someone who learns to duck by watching someone else get hit in the head.

The person who gets hit can argue that the other knows nothing about it, having never been hit in the head themselves.

Still that other person has learned to duck.

Whose smarter?

Assuming you HAVE to be precisely in some one's shoes to know squat about the situation that person deals with, or avoid certain pitfalls, is arrogance born out of sheer ignorance.

You don't have to like my opinion, but your not liking it isn't going to make it any less factual [or more factual for that matter].

Peace.

Eric Stoner
04-03-2008, 11:15 AM
OK... I have to say something simply because common sense needs to be served.

There are always more than one way to skin a cat and you DON'T always have to be something to learn a significant amount about it. So much, in fact, that you might well be qualified to comment on it.

By way of example: Someone who learns to duck by getting hit in the head.

Someone who learns to duck by watching someone else get hit in the head.

The person who gets hit can argue that the other knows nothing about it, having never been hit in the head themselves.

Still that other person has learned to duck.

Whose smarter?

Assuming you HAVE to be precisely in some one's shoes to know squat about the situation that person deals with, or avoid certain pitfalls, is arrogance born out of sheer ignorance.

You don't have to like my opinion, but your not liking it isn't going to make it any less factual [or more factual for that matter].

Peace.

Oh no. I'm sorry but ONLY dancers know a thing about dancing and ONLY escorts are qualified to say ANYTHING about escorting. It's actual, first hand, first person experience or nothing.

cameron_keys
04-03-2008, 11:26 AM
NO..you can say "this is what I've OBSERVED"...but to claim first hand knowledge of something you've never done is stupid and insulting.

I've seen and played with many a penis...but I would NEVER say I knew exactly what it was like to have one.Because I never have.

It's just common sense. You know what you've observed and what you've been told...nothing more.Why is that so hard to understand??

Eric Stoner
04-03-2008, 12:38 PM
NO..you can say "this is what I've OBSERVED"...but to claim first hand knowledge of something you've never done is stupid and insulting.

I've seen and played with many a penis...but I would NEVER say I knew exactly what it was like to have one.Because I never have.

It's just common sense. You know what you've observed and what you've been told...nothing more.Why is that so hard to understand??

WHEN did I EVER say or pretend otherwise ? I ran out of "qualifiers" to what I've posted. It is primarily what I've SEEN; HEARD ; been told etc. and I NEVER represented that it was anything but !
Nonetheless, there are those who insist on rejecting it entirely and out of hand for no reason other than: I'm male; I've never PERSONALLY escorted and never danced for a living. It's like saying: "you don't know anything about cars because you never worked for GM".

It's both funny and ironic that EVERY time I step back and say to one of the skeptics : "OK, YOU tell us about it." the silence is deafening i.e. they don't KNOW ANYTHING about it ( not that they're willing to share ) and are no more qualified than anyone else and maybe less than most.

cameron_keys
04-03-2008, 12:41 PM
I didnt mean you personally...I meant "you" as in anyone who posts that....

and you dont have to work at GM to know cars. But if you've never owned,driven or ridden in one and the only info you have is from watching them drive by then you probably arent the best one to give car advice...

Eric Stoner
04-04-2008, 08:16 AM
I didnt mean you personally...I meant "you" as in anyone who posts that....

and you dont have to work at GM to know cars. But if you've never owned,driven or ridden in one and the only info you have is from watching them drive by then you probably arent the best one to give car advice...

Agreed.

Jenny
04-04-2008, 08:32 AM
It's both funny and ironic that EVERY time I step back and say to one of the skeptics : "OK, YOU tell us about it." the silence is deafening i.e. they don't KNOW ANYTHING about it ( not that they're willing to share ) and are no more qualified than anyone else and maybe less than most.Maybe it is because they don't feel that they have to prove anything to you. Or maybe it is because we recognize that many aspects of our work is regionally specific, and the fact that you are incompetent doesn't automatically make some else the best advice giver. Finally, it is very possible that the person of whom you are talking has already given her advice and feels no need to repeat it for your benefit. So, I don't see that as being particularly ironic at all. And I know irony.

cameron_keys
04-04-2008, 08:39 AM
Agreed.

Holy crap..we AGREE on something?? Mark your calenders people..I believe thats the first sign of Armageddon! ;D

Eric Stoner
04-04-2008, 09:42 AM
Holy crap..we AGREE on something?? Mark your calenders people..I believe thats the first sign of Armageddon! ;D

It wasn't the FIRST time ; was it ? They say you never forget the "first time".

Eric Stoner
04-04-2008, 10:01 AM
Maybe it is because they don't feel that they have to prove anything to you. Or maybe it is because we recognize that many aspects of our work is regionally specific, and the fact that you are incompetent doesn't automatically make some else the best advice giver. Finally, it is very possible that the person of whom you are talking has already given her advice and feels no need to repeat it for your benefit. So, I don't see that as being particularly ironic at all. And I know irony.

Afaic NOBODY has to prove ANYTHING to me. The info I post is NOT for MY benefit.
There is NOTHING in it for me. Nothing. Zip.Nada. Except maybe a little "warm & fuzzy" from sharing.

If it was just somebody saying : "You couldn't possibly know what it's like to dance" it wouldn't be a big deal afaic because OBVIOUSLY I'm not a dancer and anything I have to contribute is certainly not from a dancer's pov. But this notion that my info is automatically inaccurate defies anything resembling common sense.
Show me something I've posted that was NOT accurate.

Rather than argue ( or reveal sources or betray confidences which I will NEVER do ) I just found it more effective to step back and hand it back to the critics. Afaic the best antidote to "bad' info is good info, or better info, but they never seem to able to provide THEIR FELLOW DANCERS with anything of the sort. Not me; their fellow dancers. My personal favorite is when one or two gals who have NEVER worked a PP themselves and apparently know nothing about them felt perfectly free to call my posts into question. When I handed it back to them and said : "Please tell your fellow dancers how it works" they admitted they had no idea and that was the end of it. Same thing for escorting. Same thing for a club or two which I opined upon.

As far as "regional specificity" that certainly has SOME applicability which is why you don't see me contributing anything about the many geographical areas about which I know little or nothing. But that is more related to dancing in clubs as opposed to other topics. A PP is a PP whether you do one in Seattle or Miami. Escorting involves sex at least 95% of the time no matter where you are unless there's some idiosyncrasy somewhere that I'm not familiar with. If so, please feel free to fill me in.

cameron_keys
04-04-2008, 10:10 AM
Eric...first of all ,what does Afaic mean?

Second..I think the aggravation lies in the fact that many times things by guys NOT in the industry are presented as "I KNOW this" instead of "From what I'm told by women in the industry"...which rubs people the wrong way.

Eric Stoner
04-04-2008, 11:08 AM
Eric...first of all ,what does Afaic mean?

Second..I think the aggravation lies in the fact that many times things by guys NOT in the industry are presented as "I KNOW this" instead of "From what I'm told by women in the industry"...which rubs people the wrong way.

I apologize for using shorthand. "Afaic" = as far as I'm concerned.

I am NOT arguing with your distinction which I think is both fair and valid.

threlayer
04-04-2008, 12:01 PM
Afaic NOBODY has to prove ANYTHING to me. The info I post is NOT for MY benefit.
There is NOTHING in it for me. Nothing. Zip.Nada. Except maybe a little "warm & fuzzy" from sharing.


Baloney. You get your "warm & fuzzy" by convincing others that your opinion is RIGHT. You do not stop at sharing it with others, even though it is not your job to change other peoples' minds.

IMHO of course.

smartcookie
04-04-2008, 12:53 PM
Afaic NOBODY has to prove ANYTHING to me.

No, but you seem to have something to prove to everyone else, which is the essence of a blowhard.

It's a shame we don't have Political Poo anymore. You'd be sent packing, as you were when you posted as "The Kid".

And again, where are all the women you've claimed to help? Why aren't they coming to your defense?

threlayer
04-04-2008, 04:15 PM
AHA !!!! So that's who it is.

Golden_Rule
04-05-2008, 02:25 AM
NO..you can say "this is what I've OBSERVED"...but to claim first hand knowledge of something you've never done is stupid and insulting.

Please, and I mean this as politely as possible, stop putting words in other people's posts and read what is written.

Eric isn't claiming first hand experience. He's claimed he has observed and learned how to duck in the process.


Why is that so hard to understand??

Precisely.

I go to college and learn how to be an engineer. I have never designed a bridge, but I listen to and observe my instructors and learn. Now, if I am a particularly good student, I can not only design a bridge, I can teach others how to do it.

If I observe and hear you in a club and am a keen and objective observer and listener I learn from watching you and now know something about dancing, from your perspective, I didn't know before. Be my being around many clubs and many dancers and gaining from many perspectives I, being a capable and articulate fellow, am now able to extrapolate that learning and form sentences to explain what I have learned to someone else.

No one is claiming anything but the ability to LEARN and pass that learning along.

Understand?

Golden_Rule
04-05-2008, 03:12 AM
and you dont have to work at GM to know cars. But if you've never owned,driven or ridden in one and the only info you have is from watching them drive by then you probably arent the best one to give car advice...

Bad example.

This isn't the equivalent of 'watching a car go by'. It is observing and listening intently to designers [management], builders [staff], and drivers [dancers] of cars [customers] define their business for us in minute detail. Many, many, many, of them, again and again, over time.

Taking it all in, comparing ones information with and against another's. Learning, learning, learning.

Then regurgitating it.

Golden_Rule
04-05-2008, 03:19 AM
BTW, it should be pointed out that in the case of the single instructor who has ceased to acquire new information s/he has ceased to learn.

While in the case of the student who has many instructors and continues to learn from all of them, in the constant contrasting and comparing of information and continued learning s/he can achieve a level of knowledge greater than any of his particular, individual, teachers.

Hence the old adage about the student surpassing the teacher.

Therefore I stipulate it is possible for a "custie" who is willing to learn from watching and listening to dancers, managers, staff, and other customers, and lord they all love to talk so there is ample opportunity to do so, to actually learn more about the business than many a specific dancer. Especially if that dancer is inexperienced herself. That being if he has been around it long enough and learned from a variety of instructors [and again that would be the dancers, among others, themselves].

To insist it is otherwise is to fail to understand the nature of learning and how it works.

All I have ever claimed, and all I see Eric claiming, is that we are particuarly good students with lots and lots of teachers.

Golden_Rule
04-05-2008, 04:12 AM
No, but you seem to have something to prove to everyone else, which is the essence of a blowhard.

It's a shame we don't have Political Poo anymore. You'd be sent packing, as you were when you posted as "The Kid".

And again, where are all the women you've claimed to help? Why aren't they coming to your defense?

Really? :) I didn't even know he was on this site.

Oh, you better hope you're wrong about that because if he is "The Kid" that I know from some very high end private parties in NY, NJ, Los Angeles, Vegas and Miami your argument just fell entirely apart.

If he is The Kid I personally know he has helped more dancers and knows more about this business than almost any dancer I know. He is a facilitator and a conduit for contact information that connects promoters, club management, dancers and high rollers and has put more of them in contact with each other than you can shake any two sticks at. He's helped dancers with legal advice, contracts and investments. He has more dancers crawling all over him at these parties [where quite a bit of money gets thrown around, mine being some of it] introducing other dancer friends of theirs to him so that they too can get into his Rolodex and make the long green, than any "custie" I have ever witnessed. And that would include myself and my Rolodex is truly fat [must be something like 60 dancers I know and hang out with off and on in it, many of which I have met at these PPs and some of them I met in clubs and have introduce to the PP circuit myself].

Don't be surprised that, if he is The Kid, I would know him. The high roller PP circuit is a small family. We see the same faces over and over again and many of us get to know each other after awhile.

I doubt he is though. As I said, I know The Kid personally and he isn't the kind of guy who sticks around where he isn't wanted. If you are rude to him and show him the door he won't even pop you the finger on the way out. Just chuckle to himself thinking about the resource that they kicked to the curb is all the vindication a guy like him is likely to need.

cameron_keys
04-05-2008, 09:07 AM
Golden..if YOU had read, you'd see that I wasnt talking about Eric and that he himself agreed with me.

You can say all you want that you understand and know what its like to be a stripper..you dont. Period. Doesnt matter how many you know, how many you've talked to,what youve observed...without growing a vagina, strapping on the shoes on a nightly basis and actually DOING it..you have no idea how it feels. You can learn all there is to learn...but at no point can you claim to actually KNOW what stripping entails or feels like. Argue it all you want..thats a fact.

Golden_Rule
04-05-2008, 08:43 PM
Golden..if YOU had read, you'd see that I wasnt talking about Eric and that he himself agreed with me.

You can say all you want that you understand and know what its like to be a stripper..you dont. Period.

This is where we are getting confused.

I didn't say I know what it is like to be a stripper.

I said I know about stripping. The clubs. Management. Schedules. Interaction with other dancers and customers. Pitfalls. How they are handled or avoided. Dancer politics. Etc and so forth.

The BUSINESS is what I know.

I learned it just as I said, from having a multitude teachers in it invovled in all aspects of it. Listening to all their stories, problems, solutions, etc. From every angle. Management, staff, dancers, customers.



Doesnt matter how many you know, how many you've talked to,what youve observed...without growing a vagina, strapping on the shoes on a nightly basis and actually DOING it..you have no idea how it feels.

I can learn what dancers SAY it feels like but I agree, I can't know first hand.

Again, that isn't what I am saying or talking about.

I get upset when dancers say there is no way to know about THE BUSINESS without actually working in it.

Anyone can learn a business from people who are in it. Especially if you talk to enough people AND observe the business first hand [even if one is but a customer].



You can learn all there is to learn...but at no point can you claim to actually KNOW what stripping entails or feels like. Argue it all you want..thats a fact.

There is where you go wrong. Entails and feels are not the same thing. Entails describes mechanics, methods, environment, etc. All learnable from a 3rd party perspective. Feels, all I can know is what I am told. That I agree is not the same 3rd person as 1st person.

I hope we are closer to residing on the same page now.

Jenny
04-05-2008, 11:01 PM
I didn't say I know what it is like to be a stripper.

I said I know about stripping. The clubs. Management. Schedules. Interaction with other dancers and customers. Pitfalls. How they are handled or avoided. Dancer politics. Etc and so forth.

The BUSINESS is what I know.

I learned it just as I said, from having a multitude teachers in it invovled in all aspects of it. Listening to all their stories, problems, solutions, etc. From every angle. Management, staff, dancers, customers.




I can learn what dancers SAY it feels like but I agree, I can't know first hand.

Again, that isn't what I am saying or talking about.

I get upset when dancers say there is no way to know about THE BUSINESS without actually working in it.

Anyone can learn a business from people who are in it. Especially if you talk to enough people AND observe the business first hand [even if one is but a customer]. We have a site of 10000 people who actually work in the biz, as opposed to hearing stories while they are out drinking. Nothing personal, but it seems pretty ridiculous for you guys to think you have much to add. We have hundreds of years of accumulated experience in all states and many countries. The idea that you have much to add because you've chatted up some strippers is sort of silly. I don't get "upset". I more roll my eyes at the incredible egos on some of you guys. Like of course we can't give each other valuable information; we need you to hear a story from a stripper in a bar and then deliver it second hand. What good are actual strippers next to that?

Golden_Rule
04-06-2008, 12:15 AM
We have a site of 10000 people who actually work in the biz, as opposed to hearing stories while they are out drinking. Nothing personal, but it seems pretty ridiculous for you guys to think you have much to add. We have hundreds of years of accumulated experience in all states and many countries. The idea that you have much to add because you've chatted up some strippers is sort of silly. I don't get "upset". I more roll my eyes at the incredible egos on some of you guys. Like of course we can't give each other valuable information; we need you to hear a story from a stripper in a bar and then deliver it second hand. What good are actual strippers next to that?

Jenny, I was a bouncer for 4 years while I was in college. I worked in all kinds of clubs, including strip-clubs. I have been going to strip-clubs for 30 years.

THIRTY YEARS.

I have all sorts of friends in the business. I even supervise security and manage the floor for a private party promoter once and awhile [I do it as a lark. I'm retired and its something to do].

Please give me a little credit... give just a little and allow that I might know just a little something about strip-clubs, what goes on in them, how they work.

I promise it won't kill you and you'll only feel that pain for a moment. :)

Jenny
04-06-2008, 06:57 AM
If you're retired - then working as a bouncer in college was a long time ago, wasn't it?

I'm sure there are all sorts of things you can tell an average guy on the street who doesn't go to strip clubs. The issue is not whether you know anything about strip clubs, but whether your knowledge is likely to be greater or more useful than ours, or, for that matter, as useful as ours. I can't imagine it is, based on the qualifications you set out here. I will not give you credit for expertise in an industry because you are a customer. That gives you expertise in being a customer. I buy coffee. That doesn't qualify me to tell people how to pick it coffee beans, to tell the board of directors at Starbucks how to run their business, to instruct the barrista on how to make a latte or really do anything except tell them how I like my coffee. I don't know why you guys cannot just accept that maybe the dancers are actually the experts in being dancers. It seems so simple and intuitive.
Jenny, I was a bouncer for 4 years while I was in college. I worked in all kinds of clubs, including strip-clubs. I have been going to strip-clubs for 30 years.

THIRTY YEARS.

I have all sorts of friends in the business. I even supervise security and manage the floor for a private party promoter once and awhile [I do it as a lark. I'm retired and its something to do].

Please give me a little credit... give just a little and allow that I might know just a little something about strip-clubs, what goes on in them, how they work.

I promise it won't kill you and you'll only feel that pain for a moment. :)

Golden_Rule
04-06-2008, 06:14 PM
If you're retired - then working as a bouncer in college was a long time ago, wasn't it?

When I read back the answer to this I realized it had too much personal data in it so I sent this part PM.


I don't know why you guys cannot just accept that maybe the dancers are actually the experts in being dancers. It seems so simple and intuitive.

I am not disagreeing with that.

Dancers know about being dancers. It doesn't mean they have a working knowledge of the business of strip-clubs in general.

I am suggesting that a customer who knows business in general anyway, has been going to strip-clubs for 30 years, use to work in the industry at one point, knows dozens [if not hundreds] of people in the industry and has had the advantage of sharing their perspectives on it, and even now acts as a once in awhile manager for large private parties that are basically "one night by invitation only strip-clubs", might have a better OVERVIEW of the BUSINESS as a whole than the average dancer. Particularly an inexperienced one or one that didn't take much interest in THE BUSINESS beyond that which directly affects her dancing.

Now when you step off talking about the business in general and get to the specifics of dancing in particular, of course the vast majority of dancers know more about it than a person as described above.

Jenny
04-06-2008, 06:28 PM
I am not disagreeing with that.

Dancers know about being dancers. It doesn't mean they have a working knowledge of the business of strip-clubs in general.

I am suggesting that a customer who knows business in general anyway, has been going to strip-clubs for 30 years, use to work in the industry at one point, knows dozens [if not hundreds] of people in the industry and has had the advantage of sharing their perspectives on it
Well gosh. Of course a stripper would have no idea of the "business in a general way". A customer would have a much better idea of the general business than we would. A bouncer would most certainly have a better idea of the "general" business than we would. And how could we possibly know dozens or hundreds of people in the industry? I mean, there is no way that we could have the advantages of all these "perspectives" plus, you know, actually being in the business. I know see why customers and bouncers are much better authorities on the business. Thank god you are here to tell us about the business we are in.

Eric Stoner
04-07-2008, 07:27 AM
What is it exactly that folks like me and Golden "can't possibly know" about dancing ? YES ! We lack the personal experience of hopping on a stage, removing our clothes, playing "winky winky" with custies; dealing with fat and smellies with hand problems; greedy owners; dirty dressing rooms; house fees; tip-outs etc.etc. We haven't PERSONALLY done it and what we know is confined to what we've seen; observed and heard. Talk about stating the obvious.

All that being said it doesn't mean that we don't have KNOWLEDGE. Why read a book ; watch a documentary or listen to a lecture unless they were sources of KNOWLEDGE ? In additon, both he and I have worked with, ( in my case worked FOR ), dated and (SHHHHH ! ) slept with MORE dancers than most have you have MET in your lives. We're both older than we'd like to admit and have been around for a long time. I've managed strip clubs and been a part owner. I've set up; run and promoted MORE PP's than most of you ever heard about; let alone attended.

To apply the same logic that some of your argue for would limit EVERYONE to opinions which they gained ONLY by personal ACTIVE experience. That means nobody could opine about Iraq unless they actually went there and PERSONALLY experienced combat. Otherwise according to a few of you, they are simply NOT QUALIFIED to say anything.

Hugh Hefner has never been a PMOM. Isn't he qualified to say a few things about men's mags ? Paul Thomas has never performed fellatio (afaik he's no Peter North) yet doesn't he know a thing or two about porn ?

I respectfully submit that some of you are confusing KNOWLEDGE with PERSPECTIVE. Differing perspectives can certainly affect one's view and I've never claimed otherwise. I have no problem deferring to someone with greater knowledge or more personal experience. Where the problem has occurred in this thread and one or two others is when posters who never escorted and don't know any escorts spouted inaccurate and factually delinquent nonsense ; when gals who've never been to a PP; let alone worked one pontificated as though they had. Rather than continue bantering back and forth over my qualifications or supposed lack thereof; I stepped back and invited such as they to correct ANYTHING I posted which was not true or accurate. In not a single case have they done so preferring to attack me as opposed to critiquing what I posted on anything resembling a factual basis.

Eric Stoner
04-07-2008, 07:47 AM
Baloney. You get your "warm & fuzzy" by convincing others that your opinion is RIGHT. You do not stop at sharing it with others, even though it is not your job to change other peoples' minds.

IMHO of course.

Please feel free to supply a FACTUAL corrective to anything I've posted.

Eric Stoner
04-07-2008, 07:49 AM
No, but you seem to have something to prove to everyone else, which is the essence of a blowhard.

It's a shame we don't have Political Poo anymore. You'd be sent packing, as you were when you posted as "The Kid".

And again, where are all the women you've claimed to help? Why aren't they coming to your defense?

They're too busy making money to waste time injecting themselves into a squabble where I'm more than holding my own.

Eric Stoner
04-07-2008, 07:50 AM
Really? :) I didn't even know he was on this site.

Oh, you better hope you're wrong about that because if he is "The Kid" that I know from some very high end private parties in NY, NJ, Los Angeles, Vegas and Miami your argument just fell entirely apart.

If he is The Kid I personally know he has helped more dancers and knows more about this business than almost any dancer I know. He is a facilitator and a conduit for contact information that connects promoters, club management, dancers and high rollers and has put more of them in contact with each other than you can shake any two sticks at. He's helped dancers with legal advice, contracts and investments. He has more dancers crawling all over him at these parties [where quite a bit of money gets thrown around, mine being some of it] introducing other dancer friends of theirs to him so that they too can get into his Rolodex and make the long green, than any "custie" I have ever witnessed. And that would include myself and my Rolodex is truly fat [must be something like 60 dancers I know and hang out with off and on in it, many of which I have met at these PPs and some of them I met in clubs and have introduce to the PP circuit myself].

Don't be surprised that, if he is The Kid, I would know him. The high roller PP circuit is a small family. We see the same faces over and over again and many of us get to know each other after awhile.

I doubt he is though. As I said, I know The Kid personally and he isn't the kind of guy who sticks around where he isn't wanted. If you are rude to him and show him the door he won't even pop you the finger on the way out. Just chuckle to himself thinking about the resource that they kicked to the curb is all the vindication a guy like him is likely to need.

This "Kid" guy sounds like a wonderful fellow.

Golden_Rule
04-09-2008, 03:06 AM
Well gosh. Of course a stripper would have no idea of the "business in a general way". A customer would have a much better idea of the general business than we would.

Not what I said.

I said a customer who knew business in general vs a dancer who had no head for business.

I think that is where you are mistaking me.

Be honest. Many, if not most, people do not have a head for business. Dancers are no exception. In fact, as proof of this I submit that if they did they would not work in a business where they have access to so much money but retire from it with nothing in their pocket to show for it.

We all know MANY dancers like that.

==============

Side note #1: BTW, I think that is so sad and if I have EVER been a help to any dancer, and I hope I have, it has been to press the point that there is no reason to put up with the amount of BS one puts up with in this business and come out the other end with nothing to show for it. And if they were open to it, after making that point stick home, help show them how to invest their money so they had something to show for it.

Side note # 2: BTW, I wouldn't expect a dancer on SW to see that if she only uses her own internal ruler as a measuring stick. That is because many of the dancers who post on SW are NOT average. Dancer here are showing enough ingenuity to tap into a resources such as this. Most dancers have never heard of SW because it would never occur to them to network like this.

Networking is a BUSINESS SKILL. Knowing to network within your field indicates you have those skills. So natch, those that network here are proving themselves to have more business savvy than the average dancer.

Eric Stoner
04-09-2008, 09:14 AM
Not what I said.

I said a customer who knew business in general vs a dancer who had no head for business.

I think that is where you are mistaking me.

Be honest. Many, if not most, people do not have a head for business. Dancers are no exception. In fact, as proof of this I submit that if they did they would not work in a business where they have access to so much money but retire from it with nothing in their pocket to show for it.

We all know MANY dancers like that.

==============

Side note #1: BTW, I think that is so sad and if I have EVER been a help to any dancer, and I hope I have, it has been to press the point that there is no reason to put up with the amount of BS one puts up with in this business and come out the other end with nothing to show for it. And if they were open to it, after making that point stick home, help show them how to invest their money so they had something to show for it.

Side note # 2: BTW, I wouldn't expect a dancer on SW to see that if she only uses her own internal ruler as a measuring stick. That is because many of the dancers who post on SW are NOT average. Dancer here are showing enough ingenuity to tap into a resources such as this. Most dancers have never heard of SW because it would never occur to them to network like this.

Networking is a BUSINESS SKILL. Knowing to network within your field indicates you have those skills. So natch, those that network here are proving themselves to have more business savvy than the average dancer.

You're just scratching the surface. The average s-webber is a LOT more savvy than the average, typical dancer IMHO based on what I've READ here and seen and heard elsewhere. They appear to be better educated and more experienced than most.