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glambman
07-04-2008, 02:36 PM
Some MTF's are. And yes, we do have members here. And while you don't have to believe anything, you certainly should keep in mind that this is a community and that they deserve the respect you would want for yourself. Like I said - it is perfectly possible to have a conversation about gender performance and gender roles without being intolerant and rude and bigoted.


Since you accused me of the same thing....................

Yes, I am aware of one MTF person on this site. And guess what, I didn't jump on her thread lambasting her. As part of any community, there will be differences of opinions.

The thing is, is that you attacked me as intolerant and prejudiced just because I don't believe in something. Nevermind that I never encouraged violence against them, nor treating them as subhuman.

What you are doing is this:

I don't believe in affirmative action as a quota system, I do believe in it as equal access. The KKK doesn't believe in AA/ quota. So you are KKK.

You see how wrong that is. It would be like me saying:

A politician took a payoff, so all politicians are corrupt.... whoops, bad example........ a politician did not take a payoff, so all politicians are good. ;D

BrodieLux
07-04-2008, 02:41 PM
http://www.showcase.ca/BLOG/photos/adult/images/34657/original.aspx

That is the FTM porn star Buck Angel. Born a woman, obviously nothing like a woman anymore. Food for thought...

glambman
07-04-2008, 02:48 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMsnqQHOwFg

Andygirl
07-04-2008, 03:03 PM
http://www.showcase.ca/BLOG/photos/adult/images/34657/original.aspx

That is the FTM porn star Buck Angel. Born a woman, obviously nothing like a woman anymore. Food for thought...

I wouldn't argue that he's not a man now, because that's certainly his body and his choice. But if he kept the uterus and ovaries from his former body and used them to reproduce and carry a child, it still wouldn't be a man having a baby.

ETA: Whoa. I didn't realize he, um, uses his pussy in the pornos. I thought he was a fully transformed female to male transexual. Is this really the same thing? I'd argue that he's a bit of both, and capitalizing on that very thing. And since he fucks men, it's kind of interesting. I would imagine that it's mostly gay guys, but it's actually heterosexual sex. This is fascinating.

Jenny
07-04-2008, 03:23 PM
Since you accused me of the same thing....................

Yes, I am aware of one MTF person on this site. And guess what, I didn't jump on her thread lambasting her. As part of any community, there will be differences of opinions.

The thing is, is that you attacked me as intolerant and prejudiced just because I don't believe in something. Nevermind that I never encouraged violence against them, nor treating them as subhuman.

What you are doing is this:

I don't believe in affirmative action as a quota system, I do believe in it as equal access. The KKK doesn't believe in AA/ quota. So you are KKK.

You see how wrong that is. It would be like me saying:

A politician took a payoff, so all politicians are corrupt.... whoops, bad example........ a politician did not take a payoff, so all politicians are good. ;D
It's nothing like that. If you didn't believe in affirmative action and we're derisive about the suffering of of black people would be a closer comparison. "I don't hate the blacks. I don't. But that slavery thing... it's just made up. I just don't believe it. I mean, there is no point to affirmative action because they were never enslaved! They came here on working vacations. Look, there is no point in arguing with me. This is a historical fact, not my opinion. African Americans arrived here on working vacations and never went home. In fact they are lucky, because they arrived here illegally - without visas. They are lucky to have any jobs at all. What are you talking about? That isn't bigoted. I'm not advocating violence. I'm just saying that blacks are lucky to have jobs because there was no slavery and they came here to work without visas, taking jobs away from real people." Or the people who don't hate gays, but don't believe in being gay. You are denying the existence and the autonomy of a group, and you are doing it in a way that is disrespectful and derisive. The fact that you are not nailing trans people to fence posts doesn't make you tolerant.

And there is a difference between a transvestite and a transgendered person.

glambman
07-04-2008, 03:55 PM
It's nothing like that. If you didn't believe in affirmative action and we're derisive about the suffering of of black people would be a closer comparison. "I don't hate the blacks. I don't. But that slavery thing... it's just made up. I just don't believe it. I mean, there is no point to affirmative action because they were never enslaved! They came here on working vacations. Look, there is no point in arguing with me. This is a historical fact, not my opinion. African Americans arrived here on working vacations and never went home. In fact they are lucky, because they arrived here illegally - without visas. They are lucky to have any jobs at all. What are you talking about? That isn't bigoted. I'm not advocating violence. I'm just saying that blacks are lucky to have jobs because there was no slavery and they came here to work without visas, taking jobs away from real people."

lol I've never seen it put like that. But remember, black slavery didn't start with white people, it existed before and after, by blacks, arabs and others.



Or the people who don't hate gays, but don't believe in being gay. You are denying the existence and the autonomy of a group, and you are doing it in a way that is disrespectful and derisive. The fact that you are not nailing trans people to fence posts doesn't make you tolerant.


Not accepting of lifestyle choices does not make one intolerant. Kinda like sex and gender, there is a difference.

Andygirl
07-04-2008, 04:05 PM
Jenny, I fear you are wasting your breath trying to have a rational discussion with this guy. The more he posts the more it is apparent that he is just trolling.

PaigeDWinter
07-04-2008, 04:09 PM
5 pages later... dur hur hur. Closed due to nothing but bickering.