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stellaforstars
03-31-2008, 10:24 PM
But Lys, I think that's where the whole, "Everyone is an adult" thing should come in. You know you run that risk when you put your address out there on the net, right?

fancygirl
03-31-2008, 10:24 PM
I wonder though if one of the reasons is it's becoming much easier to collect girls real names and addresses on here because of it.

I know I myself, before the exchanges had two and now have like, 15.


easy. pseudonym + p.o. box. that's what I did.

Lysondra
03-31-2008, 10:25 PM
I wouldn't mind the rules being stricter. But I can't imagine someone wants to them shut down because they are concerned about our safety. If so, well, that's cool.

I think in general all the mods care about is our safety and happiness but they need to make stricter rules that make us upset so that we don't endager ourselves. Sometimes we don't realize the harm we're doing until too late and they're just like mummy taking away our fork before we stick it in the power socket, y'know?

I'm kinda feelin for the mods right now.

Lysondra
03-31-2008, 10:26 PM
But Lys, I think that's where the whole, "Everyone is an adult" thing should come in. You know you run that risk when you put your address out there on the net, right?

Yeah but we're not 'putting it out there'... we're giving it to ONE person to give us something and then that ONE person can put it on the net for us... that's the drama.

Lysondra
03-31-2008, 10:27 PM
easy. pseudonym + p.o. box. that's what I did.

Yes, but a lot of people aren't going to realize that one simple harmless exchange is going to turn into the whole board having her address.

I'm just lucky my pseudonym(s) is my legal business name and I can send packages and receive packages under it.

aviendha
03-31-2008, 10:27 PM
What about the option of doing the exchanges offline? On another community to which I belong, there's a brief discussion of doing a gift exchange for both the collecting of names of participants, and the reveals later, but the actual handling of all the info and who gets whose address is done offline. That might make it a little safer and, with one person in charge of collecting addresses and distributing swap partners, the opportunity for troublemaking is minimized a little more effectively. EDIT: And the person responsible for distributing the names should damn well make privacy a priority, since that seems to be a concern.

That said, I'm kind of surprised people don't have a PO box or something for themselves to receive personal mail for their online/stripping persona. I was a camgirl for a few years and that's what I did. That way, even if Joe Douchehead does get your address, at least it isn't likely to personally endanger you. (And maybe a lot of people do do this, I dunno.)

I personally am benevolently apathetic about the gift exchanges. I haven't felt compelled to participate, but I like the idea of exchanges in general and I'm for continuing them. But not at the expense of the feeling of community on the board, or the personal safety of fellow SWers.

Jenny
03-31-2008, 10:28 PM
But Lys, I think that's where the whole, "Everyone is an adult" thing should come in. You know you run that risk when you put your address out there on the net, right?
Absolutely not. I can conclusively say that trading other people's addresses on this site will be aggressively discouraged. People giving out their own addresses is one thing - having them given out by someone else is inappropriate on every possible level.

StrawberrySwitchblade
03-31-2008, 10:29 PM
Jeebus! This thread moves fast! And I agree with Lys...I'm feelin' for the mods, too.

I'm for the exchange. Most of my reasons were stated previously by other posters.

RoseLeigh
03-31-2008, 10:29 PM
Yeah but we're not 'putting it out there'... we're giving it to ONE person to give us something and then that ONE person can put it on the net for us... that's the drama.

But there's penpals and things, too. We talk. We're adults. It's gifter beware.

Pretty_Penny
03-31-2008, 10:29 PM
However, why someone WOULD want them to stop? fine, if no one else will say it, I will. Katrine said "money troll," and let's be honest- we all know it's not anyone in the craft exchange, or FancyGirl. It DOES kinda suck when someone is posting up "OmG, I bought THis and ThiS and THIS and ThIS expensive nice thing for you and you and you and you and you and you and I'm gonna make a BIIIIIIIIG ray of sunshine in YOUR sky, and half of you are gonna be brought to Gift-ed Orgasm, and the other half, well, too bad."

And then the reveal thread comes and ASIDE from the original bunnies/eggs there is an influx of over-the-top presents from someone who can afford to get them for people who kiss up to him whom he feels are "deserving." Is it generous?? Yeah, it is. Definitely. It's touching, generous, and very kind... but it's also extremely exclusive and could make a lot of girls feel bad if they didn't know how to brush it off. SW is NOT a stripclub. Some aspects make it operate a little bit like one, but at the end of the day you can turn off the computer and it isn't real. This type of favoritism that actually assumes a physical presence really makes it hit home.

So... there. I said it.

but it -is- real and it -is- like "real life". it's a bunch of real people on a message board. there's going to be cliques and there's going to be favoritism, gifting or no gifting. it happens everywhere and it's not possible to weed it out. i don't think stopping the gift exchanges will change any of that.

stellaforstars
03-31-2008, 10:29 PM
I still think the drama comes in when you give it to one person, having no idea of who that one person might be. Like, I knew I ran that risk when I participated in the Valentine's Thread. The crazies are always the ones who seem the most normal--the boy scout leaders, the ministers, the calm, post-happy, "well-known" members of SW, etc.

I think it's just a risk you take--period.

Having said that, I do appreciate the mods being so concerned about everyone's well-being. It's why they're so good at what they do.

austinatalie
03-31-2008, 10:30 PM
I facilitated some addy swapping due to elfster's infamous addy takedown, but it was only for well respected members here and I deleted the addresses from my PMs shortly thereafter. So at least where I was concerned, no harm no foul.

If some random exchanger I'm not totally familiar with PMed me for "their giftee's" addy, and I wasn't 100% comfy with giving it to them, I wouldn't have.
Sorry to say, but this does have a lot to do with postcount.

stellaforstars
03-31-2008, 10:30 PM
Absolutely not. I can conclusively say that trading other people's addresses on this site will be aggressively discouraged. People giving out their own addresses is one thing - having them given out by someone else is inappropriate on every possible level.

I certainly didn't mean it was okay for people to give others' addresses away. I'm sorry if it came off like that. I simply meant that, by putting your address out there, not knowing whose hands it might fall into, you run a certain risk period.

Lysondra
03-31-2008, 10:30 PM
Hey I'm not saying this is the reason - I'm just trying my best to see it from the Mods views.

Why would they PURPOSEFULLY take stuff away from us? Just to be mean? Seriously? They sit behind their curtains and laugh at us? I personally know a few mods and they are WRACKED with stress over this board. They want the best for us and we're being whingey little bitches, honestly. And I ADMIT IT - I AM AT FAULT TOO. I have been whinging and kinda just not seeing it.

They don't want to hurt us... why would they want 50,000 strippers pissed off at them? I don't want ONE pissed off at me!

RoseLeigh
03-31-2008, 10:31 PM
Absolutely not. I can conclusively say that trading other people's addresses on this site will be aggressively discouraged. People giving out their own addresses is one thing - having them given out by someone else is inappropriate on every possible level.

Gift exchanges happen everywhere. I've done them on Livejournal as well. I think the exchange-organizer should be able to limit who is involved if need be (like the 500 post rule), but how is this a mod issue?

Lysondra
03-31-2008, 10:32 PM
But there's penpals and things, too. We talk. We're adults. It's gifter beware.

Yeah but that's you exchanging addresses privately. This is publicly. Look, I'm just trying to see it from the other side of the fence here.

RoseLeigh
03-31-2008, 10:33 PM
Yeah but that's you exchanging addresses privately. This is publicly. Look, I'm just trying to see it from the other side of the fence here.

I understand that. Totally. But we're organizing it amongst ourselves. It's not an SW sponsored event. This is like bringing in drama where we are trying not to have drama.

fancygirl
03-31-2008, 10:34 PM
And then the reveal thread comes and ASIDE from the original bunnies/eggs there is an influx of over-the-top presents from someone who can afford to get them for people who kiss up to him whom he feels are "deserving." Is it generous?? Yeah, it is. Definitely. It's touching, generous, and very kind... but it's also extremely exclusive and could make a lot of girls feel bad if they didn't know how to brush it off. SW is NOT a stripclub. Some aspects make it operate a little bit like one, but at the end of the day you can turn off the computer and it isn't real. This type of favoritism that actually assumes a physical presence really makes it hit home.


I'm glad someone said it because I know people have felt it. I think TOO is cool, and he did send me something (although I asked for a card, so it was a request not favoritism.)

if you don't like someone than why would you want to get gifts from them anyways??? If you want a gift from TOO, and you LIKE talking with TOO then why not create a friendship there? it doesn't mean an automatic gift, but getting bent out of shape about not getting a gift from someone who didn't owe you one (but sent one to others who he didn't owe) is not exactly emotionally mature.

Lady Jade also sent some gifts out to people who weren't her eggs. you gonna castigate her too? no, because there's people who don't like TOO, and then there's people who focus way too much on the money. In the first case-- you can opt not to exchange with males, and in the second, you probably shouldn't be in the exchange anyways because you're just gonna wind up disappointed if you're just in it for the money.

^now I really do feel like I'm at work :O

Darcy Foxx
03-31-2008, 10:34 PM
I understand that. Totally. But we're organizing it amongst ourselves. It's not an SW sponsored event.

nope, but you're using SW as your medium for promoting and organising it, so standard moderation practice still applies.

Lysondra
03-31-2008, 10:35 PM
Absolutely not. I can conclusively say that trading other people's addresses on this site will be aggressively discouraged. People giving out their own addresses is one thing - having them given out by someone else is inappropriate on every possible level.


I am guilty of this. I admit it publicly. Lucky for me the two girls I did it to are fully understanding. But now I realize what I did was wrong and am publicly admitting it and will never do it again. BUT realizing I did this and probably was FAR from the only one... I suddenly saw where a major problem was.

mermaidnz
03-31-2008, 10:35 PM
I still think the drama comes in when you give it to one person, having no idea of who that one person might be. Like, I knew I ran that risk when I participated in the Valentine's Thread. The crazies are always the ones who seem the most normal--the boy scout leaders, the ministers, the calm, post-happy, "well-known" members of SW, etc.

I think it's just a risk you take--period.

Having said that, I do appreciate the mods being so concerned about everyone's well-being. It's why they're so good at what they do.

heh kinda like rose delight and pamela? }:D sorry off topic. as you were...

RoseLeigh
03-31-2008, 10:35 PM
nope, but you're using SW as your medium for promoting and organising it, so standard moderation practice still applies.

It just seems like lopsided 'protection'.

Pretty_Penny
03-31-2008, 10:38 PM
on the safety issue:

it's incredibly easy for anyone to find out your address anyway.. if they -really- want to.

that being said:

we could maybe do gifting via certain wishlists (like amazon) that allow you to send things to people without ever seeing their address. of course, that would take the fun out of shopping for random things.

or maybe those people who wish for their address to remain anonymous could just put a link to their amazon (or other) wishlist in their elfster wishlist/wants?

Sunshine73
03-31-2008, 10:39 PM
I personally do not participate in the exchanges b/c I just don't want my name, address, and personal info out there to be floated around. But if people want to participate, I have no problem with it at all.

If you don't want to participate, then don't. But for those who want to do it, let them have their fun!

I do think that perhaps some members get annoyed with details regarding the gift exchange spilling over into other threads, and that may make others feel excluded.

stellaforstars
03-31-2008, 10:40 PM
I think that's a brilliant idea, Pretty_Penny.

fancygirl
03-31-2008, 10:40 PM
I think I figured it out thanks to my own fuckup.

Think about this: how many addresses have people gotten for people who WEREN'T theres and the person who's address it was DIDN'T give it to them? Like because of the exchanges you can PM someone and go, "I wanna send ___ a gift, can you give me her addy?" and ____ doesn't know her address was given to some random douchehead and now her address can be given by douchehead to other people and suddenly all our addresses are out with the exchanges being made an excuse!!

I figured this out because I did this for TOO. And I'm sorry. So fucking sorry. The two girls I did it to know I did it though. I shouldn't have. I'm sorry.

don't beat yourself up. the two girls know you did it.
I thought about asking TOO if he had x,y,and z's address but he said he had everything (and I gave him mine.) so don't sweat it. it. is. not. you.

fancygirl
03-31-2008, 10:42 PM
Yes, but a lot of people aren't going to realize that one simple harmless exchange is going to turn into the whole board having her address.

I'm just lucky my pseudonym(s) is my legal business name and I can send packages and receive packages under it.


bwa-ha-ha! then ya'all need to become suspicious bitches like me :D

Lysondra
03-31-2008, 10:43 PM
don't beat yourself up. the two girls know you did it.
I thought about asking TOO if he had x,y,and z's address but he said he had everything (and I gave him mine.) so don't sweat it. it. is. not. you.

Yep, he got the info from me. Thanks for telling me not to sweat it though. I contacted the mods over my discression and was told it wasn't terrible but 'didn't help'. Either way it's done and I'm sorry and now can totally see what they're trying to prevent. IF that's what they're trying to prevent. It's probably one of the things. We still don't know. Ha.

Sunshine73
03-31-2008, 10:45 PM
easy. pseudonym + p.o. box. that's what I did.

See? This is what I'd have to do. Then I'd participate next time.

Lysondra
03-31-2008, 10:46 PM
See? This is what I'd have to do. Then I'd participate next time.

PO boxes don't take UPS or FedEx though... so it makes it a bit trickier for international.

aviendha
03-31-2008, 10:47 PM
PO boxes don't take UPS or FedEx though... so it makes it a bit trickier for international.

The UPS Store does, though. And I presume the FedEx version does too. Their boxes are a little more expensive, but you can receive all mail there, including "we don't ship to PO boxes" mail.

BalletBaby
03-31-2008, 10:48 PM
The only reason I participated this time and not the first two was because you had to be pm'ed to get the elfster link. I trust the coordinator.

fancygirl
03-31-2008, 10:51 PM
PO boxes don't take UPS or FedEx though... so it makes it a bit trickier for international.


yeah they do.not the post office po boxes but the private store po boxes.

I can get more info tomorrow, but the one mine goes to signs for boxes and everything.

Lysondra
03-31-2008, 10:55 PM
The UPS Store does, though. And I presume the FedEx version does too. Their boxes are a little more expensive, but you can receive all mail there, including "we don't ship to PO boxes" mail.

That's odd. I worked for them and it was illegal for us to collect that kind of mail.

Sunshine73
03-31-2008, 10:55 PM
Yeah the folks at the UPS store love me and have told me that I can have packages sent there while I am away on vacation, etc. as opposed to my home address. But I'd have to give a fake name or what have you.

Lysondra
03-31-2008, 10:56 PM
yeah they do.not the post office po boxes but the private store po boxes.

I can get more info tomorrow, but the one mine goes to signs for boxes and everything.

I worked for The UPS Store. We had to legally turn away all packages that were UPS or FedEx for a client with one of our boxes. I don't know if they're doing it now, this was only a couple years ago and I'm fairly certain it's still illegal.. they're just doing it anyway.

Sunshine73
03-31-2008, 11:01 PM
I worked for The UPS Store. We had to legally turn away all packages that were UPS or FedEx for a client with one of our boxes. I don't know if they're doing it now, this was only a couple years ago and I'm fairly certain it's still illegal.. they're just doing it anyway.

I'm not sure how it would work for intl packages, but when I was going to go away for vacation I was told that I could have my VS order (which was shipped by UPS) shipped to the store as opposed to my home.

aviendha
03-31-2008, 11:05 PM
I worked for The UPS Store. We had to legally turn away all packages that were UPS or FedEx for a client with one of our boxes. I don't know if they're doing it now, this was only a couple years ago and I'm fairly certain it's still illegal.. they're just doing it anyway.

I'm not contradicting you, but it seems odd that the UPS STORE would turn away UPS packages. FedEx, I could see. :)

I used to have a UPS Store box and they accepted all packages, and the reasoning they gave for receiving "no PO box" mail was because there was a suite number assigned to each box and a person to receive it. Maybe they fed me a line, I dunno. I didn't know it was actually illegal.

Lysondra
03-31-2008, 11:18 PM
I'm not contradicting you, but it seems odd that the UPS STORE would turn away UPS packages. FedEx, I could see. :)

I used to have a UPS Store box and they accepted all packages, and the reasoning they gave for receiving "no PO box" mail was because there was a suite number assigned to each box and a person to receive it. Maybe they fed me a line, I dunno. I didn't know it was actually illegal.

It had to do with the fact that they had to be signed for and an employee would get sacked if they signed for it and it turned into illegal goods and things like that. Maybe I was wrong with illegat but Store Policy - definitely. You could get sued bigtime if you signed for the wrong thing. And most those shops are Ma n Pa.

aviendha
03-31-2008, 11:29 PM
Maybe each store had its own policy on what they would and wouldn't accept.

Lysondra
03-31-2008, 11:39 PM
It was a universal policy though... because of the illegalities of signing for someone else and the responsibility held by the shop. I knew one of the major owners of the place and she would throw actual THINGS if she found out people signed for other people even as 'favours'.

Callyish
03-31-2008, 11:47 PM
Okay even me the evil bitch who seems to apparently have a hate on for everyone(so says the million nasty pm's i have recieved lately from people for speaking my mind) could care less about the gift exchange.

If you don't like it don't do it. Simple.

Like me... I don't do it. I did the xmas one and never got my gift so I said stuff it im not doing them anymore.

I don't see why people would bitch and want them stopped.

britt244
03-31-2008, 11:49 PM
um.. i just read this whole thread (and ive been at work tonight - no i did not complain to a mod - haha it would be funny if i did, though) and i have to say i agree a tiiiiiiiiny bit about some rules changing.

yeah, i know. no, i'm not on drugs. :D

i absolutely do not think they should be stopped. i absolutely do think TOO makes things unfair. and no, i am not jealous. he flat out said after vday that special requests would be honored.. if i wanted something, i would've asked, as i've told him before. i think that if he's going to give gifts, great. but announcing publicly "oh i have gifts going out to this state and this one and that one" is really, really not cool. i can't even really explain it - it just gets under my skin. BIGTIME.

it defeats the purpose of the whole thing. if my egg had gotten a present from TOO i would be irritated. (no offense, pretty penny!) it's just - i don't know how to say it. i'm just very bothered by it.

:-\

Susan Wayward
03-31-2008, 11:54 PM
I worked for The UPS Store. We had to legally turn away all packages that were UPS or FedEx for a client with one of our boxes. I don't know if they're doing it now, this was only a couple years ago and I'm fairly certain it's still illegal.. they're just doing it anyway.

I have never heard of that. I've had boxes with Mailboxes Etc/UPS Store/Postal Annex since 1994 and the whole reason I do that is to not ever be woken up by FedEx or UPS delivery. They deliver it to the store, sign at the store, and then you sign another log when you pick it up. This has been my experience at six locations in three cities in three different states.

Lysondra
03-31-2008, 11:56 PM
I have never heard of that. I've had boxes with Mailboxes Etc/UPS Store/Postal Annex since 1994 and the whole reason I do that is to not ever be woken up by FedEx or UPS delivery. They deliver it to the store, sign at the store, and then you sign another log when you pick it up. This has been my experience at six locations in three cities in three different states.

:shrug: That's why I'M confused. I know one of the major owners AND worked for them.

sassysummer
03-31-2008, 11:58 PM
Okay even me the evil bitch who seems to apparently have a hate on for everyone(so says the million nasty pm's i have recieved lately from people for speaking my mind) could care less about the gift exchange.

If you don't like it don't do it. Simple.

Like me... I don't do it. I did the xmas one and never got my gift so I said stuff it im not doing them anymore.

I don't see why people would bitch and want them stopped.




i still love you and i will send you something if you want! ;)

i'll procrastinate and it'll be late, but you'll get it! :D

fancygirl
04-01-2008, 12:01 AM
cally, why are people bitching you out (or whatever)? I'm soooo lost. these past two weeks have been a total crash course on drama for me.

aviendha
04-01-2008, 12:06 AM
Okay, here it is directly from their products and services page:

http://www.theupsstore.com/products/maiandpos.html

Discover the benefits of mailbox services at The UPS Store:

A real street address, not a P.O. Box
A street address can provide a professional image for your business.
Secure mail with 24-hour access*
Pick up your mail when it’s convenient for you. Your mail and packages stay-safe and confidential.
Package notification
We’ll let you know when your packages arrive.
Full-service mail and package receiving
We accept packages from all carriers, so you’ll never miss a delivery.
Mail holding and forwarding**
We’ll hold your packages in a secure location for pick-up at your convenience or forward them to you, wherever you are.


So they do accept packages, and they accept them from all carriers.

Susan Wayward
04-01-2008, 12:07 AM
:shrug: That's why I'M confused. I know one of the major owners AND worked for them.

Clearly your boss was insane.

phillyvixen
04-01-2008, 12:07 AM
I didn't read this whole thread but i will add my 2 cents
I voted for them to continue because i think the exchanges are cute and fun.
However honestly i'm a little salty that i went all out for my secret santa but never received my gift. I know who my SS was and even sent her a pm asking what was up and never got a reply back. (she is a veteran member with PLENTY of posts)
Unfortunately because of this i probably won't be participating again :(
I like stuff like this and it makes me a little sad that i won't play again so i don't get burned again.