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scarlett_vancouver
04-01-2008, 05:25 AM
I'm just suggesting ways in which the problem could be solved whilst keeping the thead on topic. :)

Lysondra
04-01-2008, 05:29 AM
I'm just suggesting ways in which the problem could be solved whilst keeping the thead on topic. :)

I know you're not trying to be rude. I just find it odd I'm being used as an example from something completely different than what I was talking about, hahahaha. Sorry. I tend to get nervous I'm trying to steal attention when I'm not. I have this BAD habit of instead of telling someone I understand, I tell them something similar that happened to me.. and then it looks like I'm trying to derail when I'm just trying to show them I'm there for them and yaddyadda....fuck...I ramble...hey,.....ummm....

SO I THINK THE EXCHANGES SHOULD STAY BUT WE SHOULD BE MORE CAREFUL AND I THINK TOO IS GREAT BUT ONLY BECAUSE OF HIS PERSONALITY NOT HIS EFFING STUPID MONEY AND I LIKE LOLA BECAUSE SHE HAS A GOOD HEART AND I STILL THINK THE THOUGHT BEHIND THE GIFTS FANCYGIRL GOT ME ARE THE AWESOMEST BECAUSE IT WAS HEARTFELT AND TOOK SO MUCH TIME TO PUT TOGETHER.

And that is the topic.

Lola Rose
04-01-2008, 05:38 AM
I know you're not trying to be rude. I just find it odd I'm being used as an example from something completely different than what I was talking about, hahahaha. Sorry. I tend to get nervous I'm trying to steal attention when I'm not. I have this BAD habit of instead of telling someone I understand, I tell them something similar that happened to me.. and then it looks like I'm trying to derail when I'm just trying to show them I'm there for them and yaddyadda....fuck...I ramble...hey,.....ummm....
SO I THINK THE EXCHANGES SHOULD STAY BUT WE SHOULD BE MORE CAREFUL AND I THINK TOO IS GREAT BUT ONLY BECAUSE OF HIS PERSONALITY NOT HIS EFFING STUPID MONEY AND I LIKE LOLA BECAUSE SHE HAS A GOOD HEART AND I STILL THINK THE THOUGHT BEHIND THE GIFTS FANCYGIRL GOT ME ARE THE AWESOMEST BECAUSE IT WAS HEARTFELT AND TOOK SO MUCH TIME TO PUT TOGETHER.

And that is the topic.

I do that too... i've been working on it latey.

cameron_keys
04-01-2008, 07:42 AM
Hey there cats and kittens.
So my friends - your insight is what makes this site. Moderators are only here to facilitate the running. This is not an autocracy or some kind of secret junta. I will, however, point out a couple of things that do not help clarify the issue:
1) threatening to leave. If a rule is passed it is because, well, a rule is needed. It is not just because we like to unilaterally make you guys suffer. I mean - I like to make you guys suffer, but the other mods won't let me. Threatening to leave the site over new rules does not really... help anything and it really doesn't assist in finding a compromise, a new solution to a given problem or even express the problem.
2) characterizing anyone who disagrees as "selfish" and "greedy". I mean you start a poll and then start preemptively hurling names at anyone who might not agree with you... doesn't make for a particularly open environment; and - it's not nice. It doesn't show a particular willingness to understand another point of view. I promise that nobody is registering a serious complaint with us saying "I just hate seeing people happy!"
3) if such a rule were instituted, I promise you all will know why and there will be opportunities to appeal, adjust, to fix, to negotiate, to compromise etc. We are not just randomly making shit up - we are addressing things that many people see as problems. Get the "many". It is not just two, regardless of what this poll might tell you.
4) the reason velvet gave out the information is because she is nice and considerate and knows how much work some of you put in and she wanted to make sure that nobody started doing stuff only to find later that we had instituted a rule. (seriously - can I just say that woman never gets shit like she gets when she has done something nice?) I mean - guys. I don't know why you think we're out here to be your enemies. We like you guys. We think you're nice. We sit around the moderator lounge at night crying "why do they all hate us?"
5) if you feel the need to make your opinion known - by all means, make it known here. Maybe we could try to limit to here, and try to limit it to "why gift lotteries are nice things" rather than "who's the fucking bitch trying to take my gift lottery?" We are all friends here; there is no need to stir up a lot of bad feeling preemptively.

Sound good? I know you all want to publicly express things over this - does this sound like a reasonable guidelines so that nobody is getting trounced on?

JUST to clarify..I meant if people wanted it stopped JUST because other people are having fun THAT is selfish and greedy. If there are real issues I"m more then open to hearing them

And I never threatened to leave..I just said that a lot of people would be upset if the exchanges were stopped and it would change the feeling of the site...which could lead to members leaving. They are already leaving over drama issues..this might be the last straw for some.

Djoser
04-01-2008, 07:59 AM
Wow. yuck.

I support Colette, britt et al. And no, I didn't register a complaint with the mods :P. I like the exchanges, but I think the basic innocent community-building fun of them is compromised by the non-exchange gifting.

I've no problem with TOO gifting people, but not publicly. It's not jealousy (seriously tired argument! Do you think that if Colette, Kat or myself asked for something from TOO, we wouldn't get it? We'd probably get 2), and it's not wanting to make others miserable. It's about wanting an inclusive community that does not function by strip club rules.

I think this issue is a very small part of a larger problem that is currently eating up SW. It makes me sad.

Scarlett, this is one of the most cogent posts I have ever read on this site.

britt244
04-01-2008, 08:01 AM
this site is full of cliques. period. i think that's the WHOLE problem with the site, and i think thats also why gift exchanges are hated on too.

i am officially done with the site. hilarious.

well.. all that i will respond to that came from her is i'm glad her name is in black this morning.


Wow. yuck.

I support Colette, britt et al. And no, I didn't register a complaint with the mods :P. I like the exchanges, but I think the basic innocent community-building fun of them is compromised by the non-exchange gifting.

I've no problem with TOO gifting people, but not publicly. It's not jealousy (seriously tired argument! Do you think that if Colette, Kat or myself asked for something from TOO, we wouldn't get it? We'd probably get 2), and it's not wanting to make others miserable. It's about wanting an inclusive community that does not function by strip club rules.

i dont understand how people could think it IS jealousy.. i even SAID in my post that if i wanted something, i would've asked. that isn't the point. but i won't repeat myself.

i am even farther irked, however, that my points are being ignored by TOO and he's fighting off the people who he can spit the same answer back out to over and over - that all you had to do was ask, etc. ok, we get that.

cameron_keys
04-01-2008, 08:05 AM
Oh..and I put a request to TOO and didnt get it(where are my damn Saphires and diamonds?? JUST KIDDING!!!!)
But I am MORE then happy with what I did get. It isnt about getting expensive presents to me...its about the fact that someone out there took the time to do something nice for me. It made me SO happy at a time when I really needed a pick me up.
And I'm happy that I could do the same for someone else.

So yeah..maybe TOO's extra gifts could have stayed out of the exchange threads...but if someone is getting jealous because they didnt get $10,000 boots...well then you arent doing the exchange for the right reasons.

This isnt the strip club...it isnt about who made more today or who is the top "earner". Its just showing some thought and affection to someone else.

So I really hope we can find a way to keep them going...that the issues the mods are dealing with can be resolved,whatever they are. Because if this can do for others what its done for me...hubby said last night as I was making my second cup of tea out of the selection that fancy bought me...that he hasnt seen me this happy in a long time. Someone I dont even really know cares enough about me to send me things they took the time to know would make me happy. And that means the WORLD to me.

britt244
04-01-2008, 08:08 AM
So yeah..maybe TOO's extra gifts could have stayed out of the exchange threads...but if someone is getting jealous because they didnt get $10,000 boots...well then you arent doing the exchange for the right reasons.

cam.. for real? are you really saying it's because people are jealous? that makes me sad, because i've tried really hard to explain why it makes me feel uncomfortable. and jealousy isn't it - for the 3rd time - if i wanted something, i would have asked. as he said, and as i said in my first post in this thread, it was put out there very clearly. but that isn't what this is about.

cameron_keys
04-01-2008, 08:20 AM
cam.. for real? are you really saying it's because people are jealous? that makes me sad, because i've tried really hard to explain why it makes me feel uncomfortable. and jealousy isn't it - for the 3rd time - if i wanted something, i would have asked. as he said, and as i said in my first post in this thread, it was put out there very clearly. but that isn't what this is about.

I think there are a lot of reasons...some people are probably jealous,because some people ALWAYS get jealous if someone else gets something nice.

britt244
04-01-2008, 08:24 AM
I think there are a lot of reasons...some people are probably jealous,because some people ALWAYS get jealous if someone else gets something nice.

well, if someone is jealous, that's their own fault. you know?

Jenny
04-01-2008, 08:28 AM
Hey you guys. May I suggest something? You started this thread because you wanted to make your thoughts and feeling on this issue known. If you want this to be a useful thread in that capacity, you probably don't need to have it deleted by Pryce or Paige, and the more problem posts there are, the more likely that it will be locked and deleted than cleaned up. There is no point in deriding people with a different view of the situation - it doesn't provide useful information to anyone and there is no point in simply dismissing a point of view that is, I must point out, very wide spread. Neither side has just one or two people. A lot of people come down on both sides; an inability to hear and appreciate will get us nowhere.

My personal suggestion would be, for those who want to keep this thread, to go, review some of their posts, and perhaps engage in some judicious self-editing where it is required to maybe cut down on some of the issues of hostility that are going to jump out to the casual reader upon reviewing the posts that are already reported.

ETA - Ahem. May I also point out that while a reasonable point may have been raised, we do not need to belabour the issues surrounding a single member. Any single member. Including but not limited to TOO.

stellaforstars
04-01-2008, 08:30 AM
Edited so Jenny's head doesn't explode.

britt244
04-01-2008, 08:33 AM
I'm not going to question your generosity--but let's try to be real here and not change history to suit your current argument, mkay?

...especially when he's pointing out "inconsistancies" in other people's posts.

cameron_keys
04-01-2008, 08:35 AM
well, if someone is jealous, that's their own fault. you know?
I agree. Though I dont know the reasons. I'd like to invite those that voted no to please come on and explain. Speculation will only lead to wrong accusations and assumptions. And if there are legitimate reasons for hurt feelings...well I dont think ANYONE here wants that. The point of the exchanges was to make people HAPPY...not to hurt anyone.
So if theres a way to resolve those feelings so EVERYONE can be happy...I for one would like to work towards that.

britt244
04-01-2008, 08:37 AM
^ well, i didn't vote. i wonder about those who said get rid of them. i think a lot of people who are uncomfortable about the whole thing are feeling the same way i am - that it isn't the exchange, it's some of the things that go on.

stellaforstars
04-01-2008, 08:45 AM
I agree. Though I dont know the reasons. I'd like to invite those that voted no to please come on and explain. Speculation will only lead to wrong accusations and assumptions. And if there are legitimate reasons for hurt feelings...well I dont think ANYONE here wants that. The point of the exchanges was to make people HAPPY...not to hurt anyone.
So if theres a way to resolve those feelings so EVERYONE can be happy...I for one would like to work towards that.

As always, well said, Cameron.

stellaforstars
04-01-2008, 08:47 AM
Lys, I don't think it makes you a bad person, and I don't think for a second that you don't deserve the happiness you got out of those boots.

fancygirl
04-01-2008, 08:52 AM
OH MY GOD WHY AM I EVERYONE'S EXAMPLE!??!

D: Way to make me feel really fucking weird and the cause of all problems, people.

I'm Fancy's example and TOO's example and AGGGGHHHHH!!!

All that happened is I was once stood up, TOO got me a gift. I participated again, and my bunny got me a nice box of gifts... really D: I'M NOT AN EXAMPLE. I'M A PERSON.


awwwww, you're an exemplary person we lub! :)

Lysondra
04-01-2008, 08:57 AM
I like the exchanges and wish them to stay because, and I'll be honest here, it's probably the only time in my life I feel like someone cares. What Fancy did for my as my actual exchange and what Mr. Owner did as a favour/joke... both those things in my entire life have never made me felt so appreciated. The extravagance of The Other made me feel worth something while the thoughtful digging through posts and hand-picked items from Fancy made me feel thought about, cared for and considered. She was very considerate in her gifts, very thoughtful of the person I was...

I don't get that often.

So I vote they stay. And we stop talking about those goddamn boots. Ha.

Lysondra
04-01-2008, 08:59 AM
Again, Lys, I don't think it makes you a bad person, and I don't think for a second that you don't deserve the happiness you got out of those boots. I just understand where people are coming from.

Would you please edit your post to remove the quote? I don't want to continue drama, and I figure it would be better for you that way as well. I'm truly sorry I even brought it up--I hadn't gotten to the point of the thread where you expressed your upset for being used as an example.

Ish okay. :hug: I wish we'd all stop arguing. It's not like our opinions are gonna change. And we're probably not making things easier on the poor moderators. We should all really try to make this as easy for them as possible as I know they mean well and only want to make sure the safety of everyone here is protected. They have a hard enough job.

Pretty_Penny
04-01-2008, 09:02 AM
We need to remember what's important.


Cute Baby Bunnies. ;D

eeeeeeeeeee!

cameron_keys
04-01-2008, 09:21 AM
Well I think its clear that the majority of people would like to continue these. I can just hope that carries some weight in the decision process.

Lola Rose
04-01-2008, 09:29 AM
I hope so too.

Katrine
04-01-2008, 09:30 AM
Which would fucking SUCK if, say, HeWhoCannotBeRayGordon decided to sneak his way onto the boards for 500 posts.


Exactly. I have a really bad feeling about security breaches arising from the exchanges. Keep in mind, the participants aren't girls of housewiveswholovekittens.com. Most of us are dancers, and stalking/violence/exposure is a very real threat. So is revenge by members who don't get what they want. And I don't just mean the males either, we have some crazy biatches on the site as well. When seemingly normal members turn into something unexpected and unpleasant, I worry for my security, and your as well.

Don't think I am just talking about the one recent member who went nuts, its been happening here for years. I've been around a long time, and so have many of the mods. The discomfort of the exchange is very valid and rational.

Personally, I am happy that everyone is happy. I also don't think that spending limits should be removed, its creates un uneven playing field for everyone. I believe it is as important to have an upper limit as a lower limit. And I didn't see that when I was reading Lola's post for the most recent exchange.

That's why I voted to cease the exchanges. But I have no say in the situation, so this is just my opinion.

cherry_sin
04-01-2008, 09:31 AM
I'm putting in my two cents here - for me, it isn't about what gift you get. I mean, I know I'll love what I get - but it doesn't have to be expensive. And it doesn't have to be cheap.

In all the cliquiness and drama that surrounds lately, and the crap things that sometimes go on IRL, it's just simply nice to know that there's someone out there doing something sweet for you for no reason.

I'm sad that people are getting bogged down in details and pettiness and random other jealousies or sadness or whatever when all that energy - all this energy - could be used to celebrate the fact that this community is trying to draw itself closer together in spite of all the drama that has pervaded lately. That we are triumphing in our friendship, our caring, our sharing, and saying fuck you to all the clique-iness an rudeness and malice.

Drama shouldn't be pulled from an activity that is trying to help this community because when you get down to it, you can nitpick and find drama on any thread here. Why do it with something with the most positive spirit?

*headdesk*

Lysondra
04-01-2008, 09:38 AM
:guilty:
And there ya go..............

Yeah and that's why I admitted it. To prove how easy it was. Both girls thanked me in the end, but it was still wrong.

Bitching about things and denying I did anything myself is not going to help any balanced and fair decision. I am strong enough to admit publicly when I fucked up even though it might hurt what I want - because then it creates a fair playing field.

Victoryx0x0
04-01-2008, 09:38 AM
well i say let it continue )

stellaforstars
04-01-2008, 09:42 AM
I think many good points have been brought up on both sides. We should certainly consider them all and I, for one, do think slightly stricter rules in the exchanges might help--particularly when it comes to safety. So, I am ultimately happy that we were able to finally discuss the problems in public, in their rightful place on a thread made specifically for such a purpose, and learn a bit about how everyone feels.

I still think doing away with the changes altogether is a bit drastic. But I definitely understand where many of the nay-sayers are coming from now and I am glad to know that much of it is out of care and concern for our fellow SWers.

All Good Things
04-01-2008, 09:48 AM
Do you think that if Colette, Kat or myself asked for something from TOO, we wouldn't get it? We'd probably get 2)

Yes, you would get two. ;D

I already made arrangments for B to get her big ol' bag of cash based on her request, so it has an honored history.

Please keep in mind, as I've mentioned, that several gifts were given off-board.

As I suggested, this is but a sideshow to the much larger exchange, which should be the focus of the discussion.

I am also getting PMs from from people too nervous to post pics of what they received for fear of being pummeled by the Public Posting Police. This is just sad....

All Good Things
04-01-2008, 09:55 AM
Oh..and I put a request to TOO and didnt get it(where are my damn Saphires and diamonds?? JUST KIDDING!!!!)

You didn't put a link to them. Seriously! That's the only reason you didn't get anything. The only exception I made to that rule was with Bridgette, because we had the public back-and-forth about her request, and then she backed out of the exchange.

It was too bad, because I had such fun coming up with a solution to her request....

Lysondra
04-01-2008, 09:59 AM
....>_>.....http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Mitsubishi-Magna-TR-TS-Brand-New-RHS-Head-Light_W0QQitemZ170207018266QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3371 0QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem *cough*

cameron_keys
04-01-2008, 10:00 AM
You didn't put a link to them. Seriously! That's the only reason you didn't get anything. The only exception I made to that rule was with Bridgette, because we had the public back-and-forth about her request, and then she backed out of the exchange.

It was too bad, because I had such fun coming up with a solution to her request....
Oh I was just kidding. I didnt actually expect a big box of jewels to show up at my door!You've been a caring and generous friend to me and I dont expect,nor would I think of asking for,anything more.

But hey..if its links you want,it would be lovely to replace the ring that was stolen from me...






Again...just a joke!! Nobody take offense!!

Lola Rose
04-01-2008, 10:07 AM
tbf- I knew lysondra as asking for my addy to give it to TOO, and I gave it to her, with sort of an unspoken ok.

so ya, in my particular case- not an issue

Lysondra
04-01-2008, 10:08 AM
I Am Bad At Sneaky. :(

stellaforstars
04-01-2008, 10:09 AM
My God, Cam. That first ring is perfection. Way to have impeccable taste in jewelry.

All Good Things
04-01-2008, 10:09 AM
ETA - Ahem. May I also point out that while a reasonable point may have been raised, we do not need to belabour the issues surrounding a single member. Any single member. Including but not limited to TOO.

This is very thoughtful. Please, let's take down the temperature a few degrees and not focus responses on personal attacks.

As far as it applies to me, though, both Pryce and I are aware that I am a regular target. It has been a point of discussion. It seems like I have this big fat bullseye right on my forehead much of the time, no matter what I do. :)

So I venture into any discussion with this in mind. I really don't mind being a target -- I'm a big boy who sometimes holds unpopular opinions with very prominent people -- you know, the kind who get back at you through the news cycle. These people have raised passive aggression to an art form!

Anyway, I would rather that people take shots at me if it raises an issue that is bothering people, rather than hold it close to their chests and just complain to the mods.

Let's get all concerns out into the light of day so we can figure ways to address them.

Katrine
04-01-2008, 10:09 AM
Yeah and that's why I admitted it. To prove how easy it was. Both girls thanked me in the end, but it was still wrong.

Bitching about things and denying I did anything myself is not going to help any balanced and fair decision. I am strong enough to admit publicly when I fucked up even though it might hurt what I want - because then it creates a fair playing field.


Hey, I posted in haste, before I read the other 150 pages of the thread, lol. I will gladly remove my post. Sorries.

cameron_keys
04-01-2008, 10:11 AM
My God, Cam. That first ring is perfection. Way to have impeccable taste in jewelry.

Thanks! The other two are actually more my style(and hey ..cheaper!LOL)

I'm in LOVE with antique style jewelry!

Lysondra
04-01-2008, 10:12 AM
I see how it is Cam... ask for an ENGAGEMENT ring from TOO. Bad enough you got some milk, you want the whole damn cow, too?!

cameron_keys
04-01-2008, 10:14 AM
I see how it is Cam... ask for an ENGAGEMENT ring from TOO. Bad enough you got some milk, you want the whole damn cow, too?!
LOLOLOL!!! Yeah..one hubby isnt enough..I want TOO(two..get it??huh do ya??get it??)

Lysondra
04-01-2008, 10:19 AM
Eh, sweetpea, I ain't arguin' with you! ;)

Lola Rose
04-01-2008, 10:21 AM
I Am Bad At Sneaky. :(

yep!!!! If you'd have pm'd me back it woulda been more sneaky ;P

Lysondra
04-01-2008, 10:21 AM
Curses, foiled again. :P

SundayMorning
04-01-2008, 10:25 AM
Yes, I want the exchanges to continue. Yes, I want to keep hearing about all the extravagant gifts. It's escapism and it makes me giddy happy to see people I care about get something unexpected that makes them squee. And yes, I am that simple-minded. Prezzie = happy = happy me.

All Good Things
04-01-2008, 10:25 AM
Oh I was just kidding. I didnt actually expect a big box of jewels to show up at my door!You've been a caring and generous friend to me and I dont expect,nor would I think of asking for,anything more.

But hey..if its links you want,it would be lovely to replace the ring that was stolen from me...






Again...just a joke!! Nobody take offense!!

Very nice taste. No surprise there!

Just for the record, I'd want you to consider the same setting in the first ring but with a higer quality stone and cut. And get it insured.

All Good Things
04-01-2008, 10:28 AM
i am even farther irked, however, that my points are being ignored by TOO and he's fighting off the people who he can spit the same answer back out to over and over - that all you had to do was ask, etc. ok, we get that.

Brit, I'm sorry that I was too dense to get your points. Probably because I was writing between 3 and 6 am most of the time.

I would be happy to address any of your concerns if you want to hit me with them again. :)

Sunshine73
04-01-2008, 10:29 AM
OMG!!!

I can't believe how this thread keeps going around and around in circles!! It's making me dizzy!!!

Why is there so much drama over this??? It's so silly!

If you want to participate in the gift exchange, do it. If not, then don't. If you don't, then don't go feeling excluded , because the only reason you were left out is because YOU LEFT YOURSELF OUT!

If you want a gift from TOO, ask him. If you don't ask, you don't get, so if you want something, ask.

If you participate in the exchange, please keep gift-exchage related info only in the gift exchange threads. And make sure you hold up your end of the deal so that nobody gets shafted.

And if you have issues other than jealousy, then can ya post them so we'll know what the issues are so perhaps we can do something to resolve it?

It would be nice to see this thread progress into something productive...

kitty69
04-01-2008, 10:29 AM
To be honest I have kinda lost the point of this thread.
I got the impression that some people had expressed a view that the exchanges should be stopped?

Well I want to offer my support to the exchanges and would be really disappointed if they had to stop.

mermaidnz
04-01-2008, 10:30 AM
I am also getting PMs from from people too nervous to post pics of what they received for fear of being pummeled by the Public Posting Police. This is just sad....

thats why i never posted pics from the valentines exchange. getting slammed once is enough for most people. :O

cameron_keys
04-01-2008, 10:39 AM
Very nice taste. No surprise there!

Just for the record, I'd want you to consider the same setting in the first ring but with a higer quality stone and cut. And get it insured.

Thanks! I'd like to think I have good taste. And I should have gotten the first ring insured...stupid me. I really wish I had proof(or at least found out about it while I was still on set) that the girl I KNOW stole it from me did it...I'd have beaten her ass bloody. Thank GOD she didnt steal my wedding band too. She wouldnt be alive now..I'd have hunted her clepto ass down.

I just picked a few random links that were my taste....I wasnt paying attention to the quality since y'know...it was just for fun.