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Perry
04-29-2008, 05:41 AM
^^ Your bitterness is showing, dear.

SometimeVoyager
04-29-2008, 06:08 AM
Just being honest, sweetheart. For bitterness scroll up to the dancers who scorched the guy for asking an honest question. ;)

yoda57us
04-29-2008, 01:21 PM
Just because I am not interested in a dance from a particular girl doesn't mean I'm opposed to talking to her or buying her a drink while I'm waiting. And I've never asked anyone to sit with me, but I've told them they are welcome to on occasion. The choice is theirs. I'm good either way.

BEM, it's not always about you dude. I responded to a statement you made regarding telling a dancer that you are not interested in buying a dance before she sits down. I assumed it was a general statement and I responded to it that way...

But as long as you brought it up, FYI, if you DON'T tell a girl that you are not interested in spending on her it IS wasting her time weather you ask her to sit or she asks you.

MarvelGirl
04-29-2008, 05:06 PM
SometimeVoyager, you are right about most of your post but must you compare us to cockroaches?
It is our job to try to clean a guy out, that's SALES sweetie. This certainly isn't the first thing that I've sold in my life and if you think that I'm going to miss my mortgage payment in order to be "nice" and teach some fuckwad who's usually old enough to be my father how to manage his money, you're dreaming.

I sold carpet in high school. Did I ever sell expensive carpet to someone who couldn't afford it? Oh god yes, I did. I didn't lie about the cost, or try to pull a switch on anyone but there were people I knew couldn't afford it. I remember going to one woman's house to help her pick out colors (that might sound weird, but I grew up in a very small town, so it was normal there). I took one look around at her home and thought, why the hell is this woman spending 4,000 to replace perfectly good carpet when there are way more pressing issues she needs to address?

Bottom line, I don't know and I don't care. I'm not their mommy, if they want to let someone clean them out and financially ruin them, that's their issue. When you walk into a place of business, you know why you're there. In a carpet store, you're there to buy carpet, the salesperson is not a "cockroach" for giving you what you came in for. Likewise, when you go into a titty bar, you are there to oogle titties, the dancer is not a "cockroach" for giving you what you came in for, regardless of how much buyer's remorse you have the next morning.

In my life, my mortgage is more important than your mortgage, and I don't think that makes me any more of a cockroach then anyone else in America who gives a shit about themselves or their family.

/end rant.

bem401
04-30-2008, 05:48 AM
But as long as you brought it up, FYI, if you DON'T tell a girl that you are not interested in spending on her it IS wasting her time weather you ask her to sit or she asks you.

I make that clear right away, usually when the girl asks "so, what brings you in". My point was that once a customer tells a girl he is not interested in a dance, he is no longer responsible for wasting her time. To keep her there under the impression a dance is a possibility would be wrong, but if she chooses to stay after she's been told no dance is forthcoming, that's her decision.

SometimeVoyager
04-30-2008, 06:16 AM
MarvelGirl, I would agree that my "cockroach" analogy was a bit unkind. My apologies. Aside from that I think you'd be hard pressed to find anything inaccurate in my observations. And we agree that it's up to the patron and not the dancers to decide what he wants and what he buys, which was my point exactly.

I do appreciate your insight into the world of sales, though. After only twenty-something years in the business I always appreciate a new perspective from a seasoned veteran like yourself, especially the part about having bills to pay. Wow, who would have thought it? But here's a little saying that I've adopted in my effort to build what we amateurs call a clientele, which I think is another way of saying repeat business - "You can clip a man's hair for life, but you can only scalp him once."

Think about it. ;)

BohemianSiren
04-30-2008, 06:46 AM
No matter what any dancer tells you she is only interested in one thing, and that is how much $money$ she can get out of you. Once she's done that she'll disappear faster than a cockroach when the lights come on. She doesn't care what your name is, what kind of work you do, have you been here before...

Uh, no shit? /:O

bem401
04-30-2008, 07:14 AM
Bottom line, I don't know and I don't care. I'm not their mommy, if they want to let someone clean them out and financially ruin them, that's their issue. /end rant.

If you know this to be true, how can you have a problem with SV's characterization? You are basically advocating taking advantage of someone. IMO, it goes beyond cleaning a given guy out on a given night. I don't think anyone here or on blue would have a problem with you maximizing your earnings that way but when you imply that you are willing to cause financial ruin (your words) to make your money, I think a line has been crossed.

MarvelGirl
04-30-2008, 12:45 PM
MarvelGirl, I would agree that my "cockroach" analogy was a bit unkind. My apologies. Aside from that I think you'd be hard pressed to find anything inaccurate in my observations. And we agree that it's up to the patron and not the dancers to decide what he wants and what he buys, which was my point exactly.

I do appreciate your insight into the world of sales, though. After only twenty-something years in the business I always appreciate a new perspective from a seasoned veteran like yourself, especially the part about having bills to pay. Wow, who would have thought it? But here's a little saying that I've adopted in my effort to build what we amateurs call a clientele, which I think is another way of saying repeat business - "You can clip a man's hair for life, but you can only scalp him once."

Think about it. ;)

There's nothing to think about. You have an issue with strippers. There's a huge difference between raping someone on a item, and telling them they can't have the expensive item because they can't afford it.

But, perhaps it somehow makes you feel better to be condescending. I never said I ripped anyone off, but if someone walks in wanting the best and doesn't flinch at the price, only a stupid salesperson would talk them out of it.

I've got plenty of repeat clientele already sweetie, and I've been doing this for a month so I think I might be doing something right.

Think about it. ::)

MarvelGirl
04-30-2008, 12:49 PM
If you know this to be true, how can you have a problem with SV's characterization? You are basically advocating taking advantage of someone. IMO, it goes beyond cleaning a given guy out on a given night. I don't think anyone here or on blue would have a problem with you maximizing your earnings that way but when you imply that you are willing to cause financial ruin (your words) to make your money, I think a line has been crossed.


Then anyone who sell ANYTHING is also a cockroach. When you buy a bigscreen TV, is it the salesmans responsibility to decide if you can afford it or not? How about a car?

I ask customers for money in exchange for entertainment. That's my JOB. I don't steal it from them, I tell them the price upfront. If they're giving me their rent money, how the hell am I supposed to know that? Should I assume that they're all giving me the rent money, and not take it?

Screw your line. I don't leave the club with anyone, I don't steal their ATM card and clean out their account. If you GIVE me money when I ASK, then it's my money. If you don't like it then keep it in your damn wallet.

doc-catfish
04-30-2008, 01:05 PM
Just for clarification, a dancer cannot take from a customer what he/she did not have available to give in the first place. If the amount being made available is causing financial hardship, well, it seems that an old maxim about another vice industry would be even more relevant here, because lets face it, its only elementary that you're going to walk out with less than what you came in with, even on LessPaul's budget.

That being said, if a dancer "cleans me out", I'd say that it was more than likely a very pleasant evening at the ol' titty bar.
:hyper:

yoda57us
04-30-2008, 01:24 PM
There are no warning signs posted over the entry way to strip clubs. You have to be of legal age to go in. Being of sound mind is not a requirement. If a guy gets taken to the cleaners that's his problem. If he spends the rent money, maxes out his credit cards, sells his car, his golf clubs or his blood in order to finance his strip club Jones that is HIS PROBLEM.

A dancers job is to get a guy to spend money on her. She may tease and tell him he is handsome, she may lie and promise OTC every week and never deliver or she may just be so damn beautiful and fun to be with that you go in and empty your wallet on her just for the sheer joy of spending time with her. However, unless she goes outside, hits a guy over the head and steals his wallet, it is not her fault if the guy spends money that he shouldn't have on her.

xdamage
04-30-2008, 01:41 PM
I can only worry about what everyone else is doing or wants so much, so I take responsibility for my choices, and don't assume others are going to act altruistically towards me (really, our nature tends to be to get the best deal we can for ourselves). But as posted on a thread over on the blue side, I also don't like sales people talking to me too much because they are in it for them, and I prefer my own judgment to theirs when it comes to what I want to buy.

yoda57us
04-30-2008, 02:08 PM
I can only worry about what everyone else is doing or wants so much, so I take responsibility for my choices, and don't assume others are going to act altruistically towards me (really, our nature tends to be to get the best deal we can for ourselves). But as posted on a thread over on the blue side, I also don't like sales people talking to me too much because they are in it for them, and I prefer my own judgment to theirs when it comes to what I want to buy.

Agreed, I know what I like and, more to the point, I know what I don't like. Any dancer who just plops her butt down without asking, even if I am alone, is going to walk away empty handed.

bem401
04-30-2008, 04:25 PM
I think her point was that it's not the stripper's fault if the customer decides to piss away his life savings on her. That's on him. We will take the money that is given to us. It is not our responsibility to decide for the customer when it's best for him to stop spending.

Hey, I agree it should be the guy's responsibility to look out for his own best interests, but that doesn't mean you should take advantage of the ones who are incapable of doing that. I could not in good conscience lead someone down the road to financial ruin. I seriously doubt anyone actually decides to piss away his life savings on a dancer and if, as a dancer, you know some schmuck is heading for the poorhouse, well, let your conscience be your guide.

I have watched it happen to guys I know and I have seen it done by girls I know, and I just think its wrong, but these were long drawn out situations.

velvet
04-30-2008, 09:32 PM
thank you guys for being our conscience. we wouldn't know what to do without your guidance. you know us being all mercenary and such.

SometimeVoyager
05-01-2008, 01:44 AM
Whoa ladies! Wow, the hostility here is amazing. Please go back and read the original posting and understand the context here. A guy asks if it is so bad to go into a strip club and just enjoy the stage show without buying lap dances. My response is that it's up to you to decide what you do or how much you spend, and of course the ladies are going to want you to buy as many lap dances as they can sell you because it's their job.

I said, "Be prepared to pay for what you get and get what you pay for. If you leave it up to the girls they'll take your house and your car in one night. That's their job, and you would do well to know the rules going in."

So here I am getting flamed for pointing out an incredibly obvious fact that everyone agrees with.

And as for BohemianSiren's comment, "Most guys who post garbage like this got OWNED by a stripper at some point." My dear, you have no idea just how right you are! More than once I've left all my cash at the club, and sometimes I still do. And to this day I don't regret spending one dime of it. THAT'S WHAT I DIG ABOUT YOU LADIES! You can make all the stupid arguments you want all week long, but on Friday night you'll still show me a good time. ;D

bem401
05-01-2008, 06:01 AM
Unless the customer is legitamately mentally-handicapped, I will take whatever money is given to me.

I would argue that any guy who lets himself be led down the road to financial ruin within the confines of a strip club has a problem. You might not want to call it a mental handicap per se, but he clearly has lost touch with reality. And again, I'm not saying you shouldn't go for every dollar in a guy's pocket on a given night. That's why that money is there. I'm saying that if you witness and participate in leading a guy to financial ruin ( and this doesn't happen in one night ), there's a problem. And this doesn't apply strictly to dancers. Drug dealers, loansharks, bookmakers, pimps all lead people down the road to financial ruin and they are wrong too, even more so since they are breaking the law.

And as to the mentally-handicapped, I'm aware of at least one of these people having his credit card maxed out to the tune of $3000 in one day by a dancer. It's just not right. My thoughts are if you wouldn't want it done to you, why do it to someone else?

Perry
05-01-2008, 06:14 AM
The same with those damn high school girls working in the mall! They never should have let me buy so many t-shirts. Aren't they laying awake at night guilty that I spent too much?

If you're old enough to go into a strip club, you're old enough to spend your money how you want to.

bem401
05-01-2008, 06:42 AM
The same with those damn high school girls working in the mall! They never should have let me buy so many t-shirts. Aren't they laying awake at night guilty that I spent too much?

If you're old enough to go into a strip club, you're old enough to spend your money how you want to.


One of the pinkies introduced the term "financial ruin" and that is what I am referring to. Now, if you were to run to the mall every chance you get and irrationally spend all your available cash on t-shirts to the point where you depleted your savings and fell behind on your obligations, then they would be in the wrong. Especially if they personally were encouraging you to keep up your ill-advised spending, in some cases fully knowing the damage it was doing. This is a way broader issue than just dancers. It has to do with taking advantage of people with compulsions just because you can. If you can't admit that sometimes, some dancers do this, then you're not paying much attention.

Let me pose this question to you: if you had a gullible brother or RL friend who did not have unlimited funds, what advice would you give him if you knew he was starting to frequent stripclubs? I doubt it would be to spend to the brink of financial ruin.

xdamage
05-01-2008, 07:20 AM
If I really believed a product I was selling was harmful to someone else I'd have a sense of conscious about it, but whether or not I would not sell to them would be a judgment call that depends on the situation. If I thought they were mentally impaired and it was going to cause their life to be ruined, I'd probably wouldn't sell to them if I had any choice in the matter. That is because it is the way I would wish to be treated if I was in their shoes, or if I had someone close to me in their shoes. But I have no expectation that others will do the same. I assume others will act in their own best interest always, and so take responsibility for my decisions, and do not base them on the good will of others. This is what works for me.

Perry
05-01-2008, 07:35 AM
One of the pinkies introduced the term "financial ruin" and that is what I am referring to. Now, if you were to run to the mall every chance you get and irrationally spend all your available cash on t-shirts to the point where you depleted your savings and fell behind on your obligations, then they would be in the wrong. Especially if they personally were encouraging you to keep up your ill-advised spending, in some cases fully knowing the damage it was doing. This is a way broader issue than just dancers. It has to do with taking advantage of people with compulsions just because you can. If you can't admit that sometimes, some dancers do this, then you're not paying much attention.

Let me pose this question to you: if you had a gullible brother or RL friend who did not have unlimited funds, what advice would you give him if you knew he was starting to frequent stripclubs? I doubt it would be to spend to the brink of financial ruin.

I will say it one more time.
You are all adults.

I have now way or any right or responsibility to know your financial situation - or manage my brother or RL friends.. And how freaking creepy would it be if I did?

"I'd love to do a VIP, but don't you have a car payment to make? And your cousin's birthday is comming up, you'll want to send some flowers."

If I'm expected to manage your budget I'm going to charge accounting fees. Then you'll want a dance, and we'll be worse off than we started. :)

MarvelGirl
05-01-2008, 08:01 AM
When I said "financial ruin" (you seriously got your panties in a bunch over that didn't you?) I was referring to one's own financial responsibility.

People absolutely have the right to financially ruin themselves. I DO NOT decide other people's priorities for them. If someone decides that hanging out with a stripper is more important than having a roof over their head then that's their call.

I can not be both a fantasy and your conscience. Sorry, it doesn't work. There's no way to be a fantasy while insulting your customers. Telling someone that they can't afford something, or suggesting they not buy so much because it's hurting their finances is incredibly insulting. I had that happen to me once in a clothing store, and I responded by telling the saleswoman to go fuck herself. I sure hope she felt really great about "saving" me from my self.

She sure did save me too, because I just went to another store and spent even more because I was pissed. All she did was ruin my day and lose herself some money.

I wouldn't mess with the mentally handicapped, but I also don't like that suggestion that we're supposed to be watching out for our customers. Visa doesn't do that, Mastercard doesn't do that, casinos don't do that, car dealerships don't do that. Nobody does that, but we're supposed to... (I'm just glad that I've gotten to the point in my life where I find this bullshit funny. It used to hurt my feelings.)

Barnes and Noble care either. I have a girlfriend who makes 180,000 a year and she couldn't pay her $700 rent last month. She's become fixated on building a library, she literally goes in every day and buys a huge stack of books. This has been going on for almost 3 years now. Those BASTARDS have yet to send her a letter telling her she can't shop their anymore because their conscience can't handle bankrupting a person who obviously slightly unhinged. Those COCKROACHES haven't even had the decency to have a salesperson sit her down and explain basic finance to her.

How dare they!

I tried to talk to her once about it. Two sentences in she was glaring at me with her teeth bared "Don't tell me how to spend my money."

Okey doke, no problem. If you think I'm going to insult a customer and set myself up for verbal abuse you are insane. Some people need to learn their lessons the hard way, and I suppose it's better they waste their money on us than pimps and drug dealers. ::)

Oh, as for the brother or gullible friend. Well my bookworm friend kind of illustrates that. It's none of my damn business. If someone I knew started spending money that they didn't have ANYWHERE, I would just hope that they'd get their shit together when they finally hit rock bottom. That's all I can do, I don't pretend that other people's finances are my business.

yoda57us
05-01-2008, 08:43 AM
And as to the mentally-handicapped, I'm aware of at least one of these people having his credit card maxed out to the tune of $3000 in one day by a dancer. It's just not right. My thoughts are if you wouldn't want it done to you, why do it to someone else?

BEM, I've seen guys spend $3000 and more in a strip club in one visit and yes, even on one dancer. Some guys will pay that credit card balance in full when the bill comes and some will default on it. It is not the dancers responsibility to worry about which of those scenarios will come to pass. Her responsibility is to support herself.

bem401
05-01-2008, 11:37 AM
BEM, I've seen guys spend $3000 and more in a strip club in one visit and yes, even on one dancer. Some guys will pay that credit card balance in full when the bill comes and some will default on it. It is not the dancers responsibility to worry about which of those scenarios will come to pass. Her responsibility is to support herself.

Did you read my post? He was mentally handicapped, as in living in a group home, with the maturity of a 12 year old..

I suppose no one here thinks there is anything wrong either with the drug dealer who will allow someone ( let's say a dancer ) to spend all his or her earnings on drugs whenever they have the cash. He is not responsible for them any more than the dancer is to a customer, but that doesn't make what he's doing right.

And MG, you said you didn't care if a guy was headed for financial ruin. I agree people should be responsible for their own actions but that doesn't mean advantage should be taken of those who have a problem doing that.

Jenny
05-01-2008, 11:54 AM
Why does a mentally handicapped person who is unable to handle his own finances have a credit card? Who gave it to him? Maybe that is the responsibility of the credit card company and not the individual vendors he deals with?

bem401
05-01-2008, 12:03 PM
Why does a mentally handicapped person who is unable to handle his own finances have a credit card? Who gave it to him? Maybe that is the responsibility of the credit card company and not the individual vendors he deals with?


You know, I wondered the same thing, and perhaps the credit card company bears some responsibility as well, but there is no doubt this guy this guy has problems. My understanding is the owner of the club fired the two girls the minute he found out what they did.

MarvelGirl
05-01-2008, 12:36 PM
Did you know that some dentists will molest their patients when they're konked out getting dental work?

Does that mean that all dentists need to take responsibility for the fact that there are some sick fucks who share their same profession?

Every profession on earth has some sick fucks among it's members, that doesn't mean that everyone on earth is a sick fuck though.

The dancers who have responded on this thread said that they wouldn't do that to a mentally handicapped person. So now we have to admit that some will? Ok, some dancers will rip off the retarded. Yes. Some teachers will rape your children. Some nurses will kill their patients because they think in some twisted way that their helping them, and some fathers will kidnap their own daughters, lock them in a basement, and have seven children with them.

None of that has anything to do with denying people of the freedom to bankrupt themselves. People do that every day with designer clothes, fast cars, houses WAY too big for their budget, drugs, poker, hookers, strippers, travel to exotic lands, gourmet dinners at expensive restaurants. A moron who doesn't know how to rein in his spending is going to lose his money somehow, it might as well be to my son's college fund.

I would rather guys with actual money come into the strip clubs, but I have no way of knowing if they have it or not. It seems like everyone drives a new car and wears expensive clothing nowadays. I will not feel an ounce of guilt for putting mine and my children's interests ahead of theirs.

Not one ounce.

Jenny
05-01-2008, 12:37 PM
You know, I wondered the same thing, and perhaps the credit card company bears some responsibility as well, but there is no doubt this guy this guy has problems. My understanding is the owner of the club fired the two girls the minute he found out what they did.I'm sorry, that's ridiculous. They couldn't process the credit card themselves; who else was fired? If he was given a credit card, obviously someone (probably more qualified than you) decided that he was capable of handling his own finances. Maybe your take on the situation was just wrong.

bem401
05-01-2008, 12:55 PM
I'm sorry, that's ridiculous. They couldn't process the credit card themselves; who else was fired? If he was given a credit card, obviously someone (probably more qualified than you) decided that he was capable of handling his own finances. Maybe your take on the situation was just wrong.

I'll check my facts but the gist of my story is true as I know it.
Maybe it took a week or so to do it, maybe he went to a bank for an advance, I'm not sure. But people in the club felt sorry for him and told me the story.

And MG, I'm sorry, but the excuse " other people fuck people over, so its alright for me to do it" doesn't cut it. Thats like saying its alright to sell drugs because the addicts are going to buy the shit anyways, so I might as well profit from it.

I've watched girls I'm friendly with bleed guys dry and create financial problems for them and their families. I've told them I think they were wrong for doing it. Some have admitted it was wrong. Others accept no responsibility. I just know neither category would like to have something similar happen to them.

And I see a difference between in watching someone ruin themselves financially and actually profitting from the ruination.

PD, I don't know if the owner refunded anything but the victim here was not without influential relatives ( feel free to read "mobbed-up" into my description ) who could have created problems for both him and the dancers in question if some action wasn't taken.

yoda57us
05-01-2008, 03:00 PM
Did you read my post? He was mentally handicapped, as in living in a group home, with the maturity of a 12 year old..

I suppose no one here thinks there is anything wrong either with the drug dealer who will allow someone ( let's say a dancer ) to spend all his or her earnings on drugs whenever they have the cash. He is not responsible for them any more than the dancer is to a customer, but that doesn't make what he's doing right.

And MG, you said you didn't care if a guy was headed for financial ruin. I agree people should be responsible for their own actions but that doesn't mean advantage should be taken of those who have a problem doing that.

BEM, stop lumping drug dealers in with strippers OK, It's NOT the same thing. Drugs, first of all are illegal, stripping is not, hell in RI, even extras are not! Breaking the law is breaking the law. Selling heroine is breaking the law, selling lap dances is not.

And yes, I read your post. So what? I'm sorry the fellow has some sort of disability but if he has a credit card and is able to get to a strip club he is pretty much an adult in my book no matter what his mental state is. If he is sick enough to require 24 hour supervision then go talk to the guardian that blew his assignment.
If the morality of what goes on in strip clubs outrages you BEM that's your business. You are certainly entitled to your opinion but really, if it bothers you so much then why go in at all?

Sorry but I refuse to hold a woman who is earning a living as a stripper responsible for her customer's lack of self control.

bem401
05-01-2008, 03:38 PM
What is outrageous is the attitude that its OK to fuck someone over as long as you get paid. Or more specifically to let someone who doesn't know better fuck himself over as long as you get paid. It has very little to do with dancing actually. I realize it goes on in any number of places other than strip clubs and it is wrong there as well. It's just not the right thing to do.

MarvelGirl
05-01-2008, 03:56 PM
If you really believe that a stripper selling a customer as many lap dances and VIPs as he wants is "ripping him off" Then stay the fuck out of the clubs, you don't belong there.

And no, I take absolutely NO responsibility for your bank account balance.

None.

Nada.

Deal with it.

MarvelGirl
05-01-2008, 04:01 PM
As for me not wanting it to happen to me, well it won't happen to me because I actually THINK about how to spend my money. It's not my job, however, to police other people's stupid spending habits.

I have too many responsibilites in my life to take on the financial responsibility of every customer who walks into my club just because he's too goddamn lazy or stupid to do it himself.

It's the grasshopper and the ant. They want to be grasshoppers, fine, but that means they don't get to come whining and blaming the ant when they're cold and hungry.

I'm getting really sick of this trend of people thinking that they don't have to be responsible or pay attention to what they do in their own lives. Oh no, EVERYONE ELSE should just be responsible for them.

Bullshit, I'll say it again, I'm not their mommy, and they can change their own motherfucking pampers.

And you keep bringing up mentally handicapped people after so many strippers have commented (including myself) that we wouldn't try to hustle some who was mentally handicapped. You keep telling people to read your posts, I think you need to take a minute and read someone's posts besides your own.

bem401
05-01-2008, 04:29 PM
If you really believe that a stripper selling a customer as many lap dances and VIPs as he wants is "ripping him off" Then stay the fuck out of the clubs, you don't belong there.

And no, I take absolutely NO responsibility for your bank account balance.

None.

Nada.

Deal with it.

First off, I never said anything about "ripping him off". On any given night, I see no problem with a dancer relieving a guy of all his money. I acknowledge its your job to do that. I've gone into a club and spent upwards of $1000 on a few occasions and maybe regretted it the next day, but held no one but myself responsible. I'm talking about coaxing a customer to drain his savings over time, which is really the only way to ruin someone financially. I'm thinking more specifically of situations where a guy goes through $40K, $50K, or $60K over a period of months and ends up broke and alone but never seemed to have enough control to see it coming ( and the dancer knows what's going on ). Apparently, people don't think there is necessarily something wrong with that, but I do.

BTW, I take full responsibility for my actions in the strip club. I know exactly what I'm willing to spend on any given visit and have the self-control to keep within whatever budget I have set for myself.

yoda57us
05-01-2008, 04:46 PM
I've watched girls I'm friendly with bleed guys dry and create financial problems for them and their families. I've told them I think they were wrong for doing it. Some have admitted it was wrong. Others accept no responsibility. I just know neither category would like to have something similar happen to them.



What is outrageous is the attitude that its OK to fuck someone over as long as you get paid. Or more specifically to let someone who doesn't know better fuck himself over as long as you get paid. It has very little to do with dancing actually. I realize it goes on in any number of places other than strip clubs and it is wrong there as well. It's just not the right thing to do.

So you find the behavior of your friends to be poor and yet you are still friendly with them? Don't you find this to be a bit hypocritical? I mean honestly BEM you've made no secret here about the fact that you befriend these ladies, sit with them and enjoy their company when they are not busy and spend very little money on them yourself. Seems to me that you yourself are benefiting from your friends allowing other guys to fuck themselves over and spend all of their money on them since it is the other guy's who give these ladies a reason to come into work.

bem401
05-01-2008, 05:25 PM
So you find the behavior of your friends to be poor and yet you are still friendly with them? Don't you find this to be a bit hypocritical? I mean honestly BEM you've made no secret here about the fact that you befriend these ladies, sit with them and enjoy their company when they are not busy and spend very little money on them yourself. Seems to me that you yourself are benefiting from your friends allowing other guys to fuck themselves over and spend all of their money on them since it is the other guy's who give these ladies a reason to come into work.


I simply have the opinion that it is wrong to take advantage of people, regardless of your profession.

When the topic has come up, I have made my opinion known to my friends. They may not agree with my perspective, but I'm going to be honest with them.

I fail to see how I benefit from this. I am a third party to the situation. But good job trying to turn this into a discussion about me.

yoda57us
05-01-2008, 05:32 PM
I fail to see how I benefit from this. I am a third party to the situation. But good job trying to turn this into a discussion about me.

Well of course you fail to see it BEM, I'd be shocked if you agreed with me...

As for trying to turn anything into a discussion about you. Say what?

hot4ablackchick
05-01-2008, 07:27 PM
I suppose we all should just run credit checks and have a psychologist on staff to make sure everyone is of sound mind and can afford a lapdance before we even attempt to hustle them.

Yeah right. I could give a flying fuck about somebody else's finances and yes I will bleed you dry and scatter like the cockroach I am after I take all the money you CHOOSE to give to me. No business gives a fuck about you. Yes I hope nobody is getting themselves into serious financial ruin by frequenting the strip club, but I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if they were. The only way I'm refusing a dance is if your credit card gets declined. We are adults and make choices for ourselves.

I'm sure Bem would not give all his money to a girl who he had absolutely no interest in and was not attracted to, just because she had a sob story about her financial ruins or sick kids or whatever. No guy wants to be made to feel guilty for choosing who to spend $ on. But we are suppossed to feel bad about "dicking someone over" which we are not even doing. I don't lie to guys, I don't promise to call, go out whatever. Not that I am against lying, it is a fantasy. How do we really know what somebody's finances are? How do we know what a guy is telling us is true, if he does tell us about his finances? What if the guy is just looking for sympathy and thinks that by telling us he went broke on us it will make us feel sorry for him and go out with him. We don't know. All I know is that if a gentleman is paying I'm dancing. I don't care what his finances are. Its not my business if he has a problem with the strip club. I provide a service for gentlemen willing to pay for the service. Thats it.

As for handicapped guy, you can't win. You don't "hustle"him and he complains he doesn't get any attention. He feels left out again because of his handicap and wants attention from women, which he probably doesn't get in his normal life. He had the capacity to get the strip club, to buy the dances, to have a credit card, to know he had to pay for the entertainment. Unless they ripped him off on the amount he owed, as in overcharged him, then I don't see the problem. Thats whoever is suppossed to be looking after him's problem. Its not my responsibility to judge who is "too retarded" to buy dances. I don't see someone who is seriously impaired being in a strip club alone anyway. Yes I will bleed a retard dry, but I have absolutely no fucking soul.

Jenny
05-02-2008, 05:10 AM
PD, I don't know if the owner refunded anything but the victim here was not without influential relatives ( feel free to read "mobbed-up" into my description ) who could have created problems for both him and the dancers in question if some action wasn't taken.Aren't such people traditionally sort of well off and not poor at all?

bem401
05-02-2008, 05:21 AM
Well of course you fail to see it BEM, I'd be shocked if you agreed with me...

As for trying to turn anything into a discussion about you. Say what?

I guess I misunderstood that whole post that dealt with me benefitting from this type of thing and being a hypocrite. Sorry.

As for agreeing with you, I've agreed with you several times on this board. I'm just not of the "dancer can do no wrong" mentality and thus disagree with you on the topic of knowingly bleeding people dry.

I stand by my statement that if someone is knowingly taking advantage of someone else over time ( not just in the dancing arena ), its not right.

bem401
05-02-2008, 05:28 AM
Aren't such people traditionally sort of well off and not poor at all?


True, but they didn't get that way by allowing stuff like this to happen to them.

Jenny
05-02-2008, 05:32 AM
True, but they didn't get that way by allowing stuff like this to happen to them.
But then it wasn't a case of a person of limited means being taken advantage of and getting into financial ruin at all, but a person of means who wasn't exercising the best judgment.

bem401
05-02-2008, 05:45 AM
But then it wasn't a case of a person of limited means being taken advantage of and getting into financial ruin at all, but a person of means who wasn't exercising the best judgment.

I don't know this particular person's financial position at all but I have heard he's still paying off the balance a year later. The more important fact to me was that he is clearly very slow and ill-equipped to deal with hot girls in a strip club with a credit card in his pocket. You can argue that he shouldn't be allowed to put himself in that position and you'd be absolutely right, but it still doesn't make what happened to him right. Somebody ( and I'm not saying it was the dancers' responsibility ) should have been looking out for him before the fact.

SPLUT
05-02-2008, 06:38 AM
BEM - do you advocate the closure of all casinos and lotteries in the US? Cuz those things are ruining more people and families than all the strippers in the world combined.

bem401
05-02-2008, 07:04 AM
BEM - do you advocate the closure of all casinos and lotteries in the US? Cuz those things are ruining more people and families than all the strippers in the world combined.

That's a good question and there is no easy answer. They cater to people's weaknesses and do a lot of harm ( including to people I know ). I live about 45 minutes from Foxwoods and Mohegan and hear horror stories all the time about ruined lives and suicides. As a recreational activity, I have no objection to them. I even visit myself occasionally. Like strip clubs, they are fine for anyone who can visit and maintain control, For those who can't maintain control, its a very different story. The problem is that by the time they realize they have a problem, it may be too late.

SPLUT
05-02-2008, 07:21 AM
Just to be clear...I don't think strippers ruin people and families. those with no self control ruin themselves and their families.

yoda57us
05-02-2008, 07:56 AM
I guess I misunderstood that whole post that dealt with me benefitting from this type of thing and being a hypocrite. Sorry.

No need to apologize BEM, you understood that ONE post perfectly. It was not however an attempt to make the thread about you. I was merely questioning your reasoning in befriending women that you find guilty of such abhorrent behavior. You answered and I accept your answer though I still find it to be quite hypocritical.


As for agreeing with you, I've agreed with you several times on this board. I'm just not of the "dancer can do no wrong" mentality and thus disagree with you on the topic of knowingly bleeding people dry.

Well, I never said dancers can do no wrong BEM, you are just making that up. My POV is simple. Dancing is a job. Contrary to popular myth the job is not simply about taking your clothes off in front of strange men. The job is to get guys to spend money on you...as much money as you can get them to spend. What's WRONG, if you are a dancer, is to leave money on the floor when it should be in your garter. I have blown stupid amounts of cash on strippers but I have also learned some hard lessons in the process. In the course of learning those lessons I have not become bitter about what strippers do for a living. To be sure there are ladies who's methods I do not approve of but I understand that every dancer has her own way of working. I patronize and befriend the ones that I like and avoid the ones that I don't. I do not however begrudge any of them from doing what they have to do to earn a living.


I stand by my statement that if someone is knowingly taking advantage of someone else over time ( not just in the dancing arena ), its not right.

And I am not my brother's keeper....

bem401
05-02-2008, 11:28 AM
Just to be clear...I don't think strippers ruin people and families. those with no self control ruin themselves and their families.

People who lack self control are vulnerable both in strip clubs and in casinos. There does not seem to be any lack of persons looking to profit from the lack of others' self-control.

bem401
05-02-2008, 11:53 AM
No need to apologize BEM, you understood that ONE post perfectly. It was not however an attempt to make the thread about you. I was merely questioning your reasoning in befriending women that you find guilty of such abhorrent behavior. You answered and I accept your answer though I still find it to be quite hypocritical.

I've yet to meet anyone in life I agree with 100% on all topics. The dancers in question are no exception. Not all of them have done this either, but the few that did were already friendly with me when they did and I'm not really about to throw them under the bus because we have a difference of opinion. I make my opinion known and we move on.



Well, I never said dancers can do no wrong BEM, you are just making that up. My POV is simple. Dancing is a job. Contrary to popular myth the job is not simply about taking your clothes off in front of strange men. The job is to get guys to spend money on you...as much money as you can get them to spend. What's WRONG, if you are a dancer, is to leave money on the floor when it should be in your garter. I have blown stupid amounts of cash on strippers but I have also learned some hard lessons in the process. In the course of learning those lessons I have not become bitter about what strippers do for a living. To be sure there are ladies who's methods I do not approve of but I understand that every dancer has her own way of working. I patronize and befriend the ones that I like and avoid the ones that I don't. I do not however begrudge any of them from doing what they have to do to earn a living.

I disagree with very little in this post. I just think there are limits to which anyone should be willing to go to make that living. And you may not have actually said that, but you definitely have a pro-dancer bias.



And I am not my brother's keeper....

True, but that doesn't mean it is right to profit from his weakness either.