View Full Version : upset over what could be rascim.
reese_x_c
04-22-2008, 01:37 PM
I'd go back and buy the shirt full price from another sales associate...lol
VegasPrincess
04-22-2008, 01:56 PM
Did anybody stop to think that maybe they were pre-marking stuff for a sale that was going to be in effect later (say the next day)...
Or that the shirt was mis marked? Or that the salesgirl was just a bitch who didn't want to be bothered?
Or maybe she was racist.....I'm kind of with Andygirl on .that typically black people are picked on waaaaaay more than white people. Not that racism can not happen, because it totally can. If it happens to you tho, esp over something little, it shoulc be a reminder to you of what unfortunately minorities deal with all the time and to make sure that you arent contributing to that.
It does suck that this bitch was rude, but.....it is still just a shirt.
High_Heel_Lover
04-22-2008, 02:05 PM
It was a clothing store and I came in with my oldest son. I saw there were kids in teh store so the excuse used was ridiculous.
I came in and began to look, it had really nice clothes, kinda sexy anyway I went in and the guy behind the counter was busy with the lady and her kid.
All of a sudden he said "can I help you?" I said "oh.." I didn't get more than that out when he said "you can't bring kids in the store" I looked at him like "what?" so I said "there is a lady there with her child" he looked at me very mean and said "you have to leave" so I did.
I was going to go back but I said 'no fuck it, it isn't worth it" but I did call the BBB and asked questions. I as going to go with a black friend and have a hidden camera but guess what? they went out of business.
TheTempest
04-22-2008, 02:05 PM
Did anybody stop to think that maybe they were pre-marking stuff for a sale that was going to be in effect later (say the next day)...
Or maybe she was racist.....I'm kind of with Andygirl on .that typically black people are picked on waaaaaay more than white people. Not that racism can not happen, because it totally can. If it happens to you tho, esp over something little, it shoulc be a reminder to you of what unfortunately minorities deal with all the time and to make sure that you arent contributing to that.
Your first comment makes a lot of sense - especially since I can't wrap my head around why she said "that's what it will be later". Good point.
I agree also that non-whites (not just African-Americans but Hispanics, Chinese, etc.) get treated poorly much more often than whites. But I will not say that whites are not treated with prejudice by non-whites as well. It may not happen as often, and it is probably caused by people's experience with prejudiced white people, but it most certainly does happen.
It's a cycle. Everyone thinks ill of everyone else. It makes me sick.
High_Heel_Lover
04-22-2008, 02:07 PM
I forgot to mention it wasn't as plain as that it was looks, feel, how the tone of his voice was and his body language. The rest of the people in the store were White and the customers all looked at each other like "wtf is he doing?"
TheTempest
04-22-2008, 02:10 PM
I forgot to mention it wasn't as plain as that it was looks, feel, how the tone of his voice was and his body language. The rest of the people in the store were White and the customers all looked at each other like "wtf is he doing?"
Was this a manager?
Again... the world makes me sad.
High_Heel_Lover
04-22-2008, 02:12 PM
I have no clue, I didn't get to be there too long, it was so fast.
TheTempest
04-22-2008, 02:14 PM
That sucks... they don't deserve your business. >:(
Corgan
04-22-2008, 02:36 PM
I 100% agree. There was nothing in your post that showed she was being racist. The girl was a straight up bitch to you. Plain and simple. Why automatically suggest it was rascism? Because it was a "hip hop" style store and she was black, therefore she must be racist??? I don't understand your logic but if your mind automatically went there, then maybe it's a reflection of your own personal fears...
that really hurt my feelings. i could just TELL. kiki i've always thought you were such a great person and for you to say something like that to me when i'm being fucking genuinely upset really fucking blows.
VegasPrincess
04-22-2008, 02:40 PM
^^^
I didnt realize you were so upset about this! It'll be okay !! :(
Alia_of_the_Knife
04-22-2008, 02:40 PM
As someone who has faced racism I would just ere on the side of she was probably just a stupid bitch. I have been treated like shit plenty of times from black sales reps and cashiers and I'm black.
Corgan
04-22-2008, 02:42 PM
ok i went back and read this whole thread.
the majority of black people where i went shopping at ARE rascist. port arthur, texas to be exact. i really don't think she was just being a shitty saleswoman, i personally think she rejected me because of what i looked like. i really don't care what any of you say about white people not feeling what it feels like because fuck, i felt it in my stomach and it almost made me cry. i posted this so i could vent to my "friends" on here. i never wanted this uproar of rasicm to break out. i didn't want drama. i wanted to connect to someone that had this happen to them so i could feel better about it.
fucking lame.
If what you said is true, this makes complete sense considering where Corgan lives.
THANK YOU!!! You actually know what part of the globe i am in.
Corgan
04-22-2008, 02:43 PM
^^^
I didnt realize you were so upset about this! It'll be okay !! :(
it's just that in the area i live in racism is rampant. i hate being accused of it when i'm not or anything of the like. :(
seraya
04-22-2008, 02:51 PM
She could have been racist or just a cunty sales clerk; who knows and I refuse to get into race debates on SW anymore... But... I just wanted to give you a :hug: hun. It is obvious that you were deeply hurt by what happened. I'm sorry.
AznExtasy
04-22-2008, 02:51 PM
That's how the liberal white guilt works. If a person of that store employee's race would've cried racism, she would've gotten everybody's sympathy. And for a white person to feel they were treated in a racist manner, it gets swept under the rug. Cause of course we know there's just no such thing as racism against whites, right? And even if there was, it can't be that important really...
Right....
Ok, so she could've had shitty customer service skills, could've been racist, or maybe both. If it was the other way around, she would've raised hell and probably gotten an apology and huge discount or freebie out of it. I've seen and heard of this shit happening way too many times. Fuck that, I'm sick of it.
virgoamm
04-22-2008, 02:52 PM
Corgan, I totally understand. I've spent a lot of time in Beaumont and Port Arthur, so I know exactly what you mean. :hug:
VegasPrincess
04-22-2008, 02:55 PM
it's just that in the area i live in racism is rampant. i hate being accused of it when i'm not or anything of the like. :(
Im sorry I didn't realize that!! If I had this same experience it woulld not have bugged me at all, but I grew up and still live in an Urban enviornment that is very not racist, very liberal, etc. So your experience is totally different than mine...
reese_x_c
04-22-2008, 03:07 PM
I do understand what you mean by you could just tell. I had this happen to me going into freaking Victoria's Secret (i'm black and the salesgirls were white). The look they gave when I walked in was like "what is SHE doing in here", but every other customer who were all white were greeted enthusiastically. Don't let idiots like that get to you hun!!!!!
AudreyLeigh
04-22-2008, 03:15 PM
She was probably a combination of jealous and dumb. And remember, she's getting paid minimum wage and I'm guessing she's not getting paid commissions so ... I'm sorry you went through that. I would've gotten the manager.
They make comission at Demo (if thats the store) A girlfriend I went to school worked there for a while...
Thats crap. I had the worst racist shit happen to me when I lived in Waianae. Apparantly white people arent supposed to be in Waianae. I lasted 2 months there and couldnt take it anymore...
Alia_of_the_Knife
04-22-2008, 03:18 PM
I honestly feel that if a black person on this site started a thread about being targeted in Sax Fifth, Nordsrom's, or Neiman Marcus they would probably get a slue of "racism is dead", "my ancestors had nothing to do with slavery", "you have the United Negro College fund", "it's all just your imagination", and "you are just lazy hence your life sucks", instead of support.
TheTempest
04-22-2008, 03:19 PM
^I disagree. Racism is definitely not dead, and while some people might say that (opinions are like assholes...) I doubt the majority of people here would.
vivianbear
04-22-2008, 03:34 PM
She could have been racist or just a cunty sales clerk; who knows and I refuse to get into race debates on SW anymore...
Here here.
The whole point of this thread is you're upset by what could be construed as a "racist" gesture/remark.
Do you know what else could have happpened? You could have stood up for yourself, confronted your perpetrator and watched her recieve consequenses for her outburst. Instead, you almost placated to it by nearly buying the item out of spite but instead chose to walk away with your tail between your legs. Now you're just compaining and feeling bad. If you're such an anti-racist, take a tip from the civil rights movement and fight back against discrimination based on race when you see it. For yourself and anyone else. You'll notice that it gets results and you'll feel more vindicated.
I don't mean to be mean but really, being passive-aggressive when this happens in public gets no results. Sure, pick your battles and all but don't complain and walk around with hurt feelings unless you've exhausted your options to rectify the situation.
There, no more race debates for me.
cinammonkisses
04-22-2008, 03:38 PM
That's how the liberal white guilt works. If a person of that store employee's race would've cried racism, she would've gotten everybody's sympathy. And for a white person to feel they were treated in a racist manner, it gets swept under the rug. Cause of course we know there's just no such thing as racism against whites, right? And even if there was, it can't be that important really...
Right....
.
You didn't read this entire thread did you?
Hatshepsut
04-22-2008, 04:51 PM
Agreed. White people don't have any idea what it feels like to be the target of real racism.
One of my friends lives in Hawaii, where a number of the natives hate the whites due to imperialism. When he was in school, there would be designated "Kill Haole Days." He was brutalized like you wouldn't believe.
I once worked in a nursing home that was full of very low quality people who happened to be African American. It was one of the most horrible experiences of my life, as I was hazed, called names, had things reported that I didn't even do that could have gotten me arrested, etc. I had to quit because management was just like them.
Here's a great story (http://www.violentacres.com/archives/117/maggie-and-the-client)that shoes how much racism against whites can hurt so much.
White people do feel racism just like some men do feel domestic abuse. In fact, what makes it extra bad is the perspective that it doesn't exist and we can't do much about it.
Jenny
04-22-2008, 05:13 PM
But is that racism or is that resenting colonial imperialism?
One of my friends lives in Hawaii, where a number of the natives hate the whites due to imperialism. When he was in school, there would be designated "Kill Haole Days." He was brutalized like you wouldn't believe.
I once worked in a nursing home that was full of very low quality people who happened to be African American. It was one of the most horrible experiences of my life, as I was hazed, called names, had things reported that I didn't even do that could have gotten me arrested, etc. I had to quit because management was just like them.
Here's a great story (http://www.violentacres.com/archives/117/maggie-and-the-client)that shoes how much racism against whites can hurt so much.
White people do feel racism just like some men do feel domestic abuse. In fact, what makes it extra bad is the perspective that it doesn't exist and we can't do much about it.
Corgan
04-22-2008, 05:33 PM
Here here.
The whole point of this thread is you're upset by what could be construed as a "racist" gesture/remark.
Do you know what else could have happpened? You could have stood up for yourself, confronted your perpetrator and watched her recieve consequenses for her outburst. Instead, you almost placated to it by nearly buying the item out of spite but instead chose to walk away with your tail between your legs. Now you're just compaining and feeling bad. If you're such an anti-racist, take a tip from the civil rights movement and fight back against discrimination based on race when you see it. For yourself and anyone else. You'll notice that it gets results and you'll feel more vindicated.
I don't mean to be mean but really, being passive-aggressive when this happens in public gets no results. Sure, pick your battles and all but don't complain and walk around with hurt feelings unless you've exhausted your options to rectify the situation.
There, no more race debates for me.
haha, you don't mean to be mean? yeah right.
this is the final straw. i am not going to be a part of a messageboard when people DON'T READ THE THREAD AND WHAT I HAVE TO SAY and then jump down my throat when i was just stating something that happenned to me.
i am not complaining. i am talking to people who i thought cared about me. when you vent to your friends do they tell you that YOU are complaining?
i am a highly sensitive person and this thread has made me well up with tears. it's not what i wanted it to be, i wanted support from people who have experienced it. i didn't want racial wars.
i don't want to leave SW because i really like it here. but i really am hurt that some people don't fucking understand my whole point here and are basically calling me out as a racist person. i'm sitting here crying my eyes out because i don't even feel welcome here anymore. but whatever. i don't give a fuck if you people think "it's just a messageboard" but it's alot more than that to me.
Bella21
04-22-2008, 05:34 PM
But is that racism or is that resenting colonial imperialism?
That is ABSOLUTELY racism!!!! "I hate white people" (for whatever reason they choose to generalize an entire race/skin color) = racism. You can be upset about an unjust that happened to your nation without taking it out on people who resemble those long and dead. Some Latina chick punched me in highschool to avenge my exbf. If I had turned around and said, "I hate those Latino people. They're violent and mean", that would be just as useless and just as racist. I mean, come on... "Kill haole day"?!?!?!? It's disgusting.
Corgan, don't leave!!! Me likey you! It's a controversial topic and people are debating it, not attacking you (edit: um, generally, sorry).
TheSexKitten
04-22-2008, 05:46 PM
White people do feel racism just like some men do feel domestic abuse. In fact, what makes it extra bad is the perspective that it doesn't exist and we can't do much about it.
Exactly! (p.s. this is all unrelated to Corgan's story) When I was a kid, I went to school where the majority of the kids were some sort of Asian (primarily Viet/Chinese/Filipino). I don't need to get into the nitty-gritty details, but racism exists on every socioeconomic level of American society, and is perpetrated by every race. Whites just got the upper hand earlier (in this country), but since other races are in the minority now it's less obvious or detrimental than the white-on-whatever racism.
HOWEVER I do think it's laughable, ignorant, and downright offensive to insist that racism (white-on-fill in the blank) doesn't exist in this country today. I only hear sheltered white people saying things like that... Funny... >:(
For Corgan: That bites!! She was a bitch, racist or not. Just brush it off your shoulder and take it in stride. I'm sure you've dealt with worse things at work, so don't get too upset over it. :hug:
virgoamm
04-22-2008, 05:50 PM
Do you know what else could have happpened? You could have stood up for yourself, confronted your perpetrator and watched her recieve consequenses for her outburst. Instead, you almost placated to it by nearly buying the item out of spite but instead chose to walk away with your tail between your legs. Now you're just compaining and feeling bad. If you're such an anti-racist, take a tip from the civil rights movement and fight back against discrimination based on race when you see it.
Nice way to make her feel like shit. Corgan's a cool gal and she is NOT a racist. She experienced something that bothered her emotionally, and you're jumping down her throat for not being in your face and confrontational. Not everyone is like that, you know? Nice way to blame the victim and completely dismiss her feelings. Try reversing the situation and see if it were acceptable or PC to say what you just did. You would get flamed into freaking infinity. I live a few hours away from her, and have spent quite a bit of time in the area she lives in. There is A LOT of racial tension there that comes from both sides, so it is entirely within the realm of reason that's what happened.
Corgan
04-22-2008, 05:59 PM
okay, i feel a little better now and am getting over what bothered me previously.
to whoever had negative things to say about me, read the thread's title. the word COULD is in there. i wrote that originally, i can't edit that. if i feel she looked at me and labeled me as just another white chick, then she did in my eyes. like, when anyone says someone is racist to them. something triggered it right??
to be honest this is the first time anything like this has happenned to me (that i actually may have seen!) and i left in shock because just that... i was in shock. it is not my nature to start screaming and causing a scene. it was better for me to leave.
ps: oh! thanks to you gals who made me feel better. :)
Jenny
04-22-2008, 06:02 PM
That is ABSOLUTELY racism!!!! "I hate white people" (for whatever reason they choose to generalize an entire race/skin color) = racism.
I'm not sure that is true. I suspect that racism has something to do with social/economic/cultural and hegemonic structures, and that when you are placed somewhere non-dominant in that hegemonic structure, I'm not sure "racism" is still a useful word.
Bella21
04-22-2008, 06:04 PM
^Then how would you define discrimination based on race?
P.S. White people are no longer the majority in the USA.
Corgan
04-22-2008, 06:07 PM
jenny, let me say that when i was in canada the only racism i felt was from asians. and it wasn't me, i just saw it when i was shopping in chinatown.
in canada (well, vancouver anyhow) everyone seemed to be colorblind. that's another reason why i wanted to live there so badly.
High_Heel_Lover
04-22-2008, 06:07 PM
I'm sorry honey this got out of hand, it's about how you feel. it sucks being felt less than a human because of how you look. I am sending you lots of love.
She also could of been a real ugly bitch and looked at you and hated on you cause you are gorgeous!
Screw her babe.
Andygirl
04-22-2008, 06:09 PM
i am a highly sensitive person and this thread has made me well up with tears. it's not what i wanted it to be, i wanted support from people who have experienced it. i didn't want racial wars.
It's not what you wanted it to be because not everyone agreed with you--plain and simple.
I think it's ridiculous how everyone threatens to leave now over every little thing. It's the fucking internet, people! Grow up! People can disagree with you and you will survive. When you make a thread about something people feel strongly about, you can expect it to get heated. It doesn't mean it's anything personal against you.
Jenny
04-22-2008, 06:10 PM
^Then how would you define discrimination based on race?
I think I just sort of provided an example. Hegemony. Etc. I hear what you are saying, but I think that a position of cultural dominance makes a difference, and I don't think comparing a culturally dominant, and frankly imperialist group with a colonialized one is a very useful exercise. I mean, can you call Ghandi racist against the British? Probably, but it doesn't make a useful way of understanding the situation.
P.S. White people are no longer the majority in the USA.
Even if that is true (which I am far from sure of) that hardly means that they are not the hegemony.
Corgan
04-22-2008, 06:12 PM
It's not what you wanted it to be because not everyone agreed with you--plain and simple.
wow i'm so glad you are inside my head and know EXACTLY what i'm thinking!!!
no. i am upset because i started the thread to share my experience with people who have had this happen to them. i did not start the thread to be verbally bashed.
and what's with you? every post i've seen from you lately is so negative.
lighten up!
eta: i'm over it. thanks for letting me vent.
Andygirl
04-22-2008, 06:20 PM
Oh lovely, she edited it, but Bella did say:
Latinos are currently the majority in the USA. I wish I could give you a source, but all I can say is that a college prof. told me that.
I don't think I would believe something just because a college professor said it. Unless you have actual statistics to back up that claim, I wouldn't go around stating it as a fact.
Bella21
04-22-2008, 06:20 PM
I think I just sort of provided an example. Hegemony. Etc. I hear what you are saying, but I think that a position of cultural dominance makes a difference, and I don't think comparing a culturally dominant, and frankly imperialist group with a colonialized one is a very useful exercise. I mean, can you call Ghandi racist against the British? Probably, but it doesn't make a useful way of understanding the situation.
Even if that is true (which I am far from sure of) that hardly means that they are not the hegemony.
So... with this "hegemony" stuff, you're basically saying that white people could not possibly be treated poorly because of their race because... this country was originally founded by white men?
If we're going to go a bit deeper, let's stop using the term "white". How about "Irish"? So, it's not racism if you're refused service because of your skin color but it IS if you're an Irish immigrant? Lot's of white people faced racism way back when.
Jenny
04-22-2008, 06:21 PM
^Maybe our difference of opinion lies in the definition? I think that hegemony is hegemony... one group dominating another and racism as any sort of discrimination based on race. Even if she had lived in a part of town that was completely white except for one person and that person ran around scratching "Cracker" into people's car's out of hatred for white people... I would consider that racist.
I hear you and I understand the hegemony does not = racism. I just think that it has to factor into the understanding of racism somehow. Like is it racism if dislike and distaste for a culture is founded in a legitimate distaste for that culture, or is it only racism if it is an irrational distaste? I mean, you are using a lot of example of one-on-one encounters, where I'm looking at a wider social meaning.
And I'm saying that they are not treated poorly as a race. And yes, I think that means something.
Bella21
04-22-2008, 06:25 PM
I hear you and I understand the hegemony does not = racism. I just think that it has to factor into the understanding of racism somehow. Like is it racism if dislike and distaste for a culture is founded in a legitimate distaste for that culture, or is it only racism if it is an irrational distaste? I mean, you are using a lot of example of one-on-one encounters, where I'm looking at a wider social meaning.
And I'm saying that they are not treated poorly as a race. And yes, I think that means something.
Dammit Jenny... why'd you have to go and do that? I changed my mind on how I wanted to word that.
Jenny
04-22-2008, 06:27 PM
That is a reasonable point. Like at one point "Irish" were considered to be other raced; they were eventually absorbed into the structure, but it is true that being "white" doesn't necessarily make you "white". Contemporary example - look at how strippers regard imported dancers of eastern european origin.
kikiwiki
04-22-2008, 06:36 PM
that really hurt my feelings. i could just TELL. kiki i've always thought you were such a great person and for you to say something like that to me when i'm being fucking genuinely upset really fucking blows.
Corgan,
I'm sorry this happened to you. And I'm sorry that you judged her to be a racist by the way she spoke to you. I still don't get where she was racist, but you being able to "TELL" she was, makes it logical, TO YOU, that she was racist. I'm just pointing out and hoping you can explain to me and all of us on this board, the fact that she was being racist. You wouldn't like it if someone judged you to be racist, As it shows now how you reacted to my statement that it's possible that your feelings of judgement towards the girl could POSSIBLY be a REFLECTION of yourself. Many of us, including much myself, tend to project our fears on another, distracting the reality that it really could be us who's the guilty party. I just wanted to make you think about it, I am not in anyway accusing you of being a racist, but maybe we should think a little deeper at the source of our issues...
LadyLuck
04-22-2008, 06:46 PM
i hate being accused of it when i'm not or anything of the like. :(
I hear you, Corgan. It really can actually hurt when accused of being something that you just KNOW you are not- especially when it's something you are so against.
I've been accused of being an anti-Semite because of my support for Palestinian people who are being forced out of their own homes by Israel. That bothered me alot because I am the polar opposite of being a bigot.
What happened to you in that store was messed up no matter what the sales clerks reasoning. If you felt in your gut that it had to do with your race then odds are it did since our instincts are usually correct.
Corgan
04-22-2008, 07:02 PM
i <3 you still kiki. i posted that when i was really sad. i'm better now!
Silverback
04-22-2008, 10:03 PM
I'm personally not sure racism exists without a social context of oppression and hegemony. Is that just me?
You been readin' again, ain't ya?
francescadubois
04-22-2008, 11:26 PM
P.S. White people are no longer the majority in the USA.
:O
Total Population, 2006= 299,398,484
Non-Hispanic White (Alone) Population, 2006= 66.4%
Non-Hispanic African American (Alone) Population, 2006= 12.3%
Non-Hispanic Asian/Pacific Islander (Alone) Population, 2006= 4.4%
Non-Hispanic American Indian/Alaska Native (Alone) Population, 2006= 0.8%
Non-Hispanic Two or More Races Population, 2006=1.4%
Hispanic Population, 2006= 14.8%
http://www.prb.org/Datafinder/Geography/Summary.aspx?region=70®ion_type=3
Bella21
04-22-2008, 11:32 PM
^Well, that college prof. was definately wrong... so wrong. Even if those stats didn't count the illegal immigrants or the two year difference... that's huge. Sorry y'all.
head turner
04-23-2008, 02:11 AM
Don't mean to thread jack but i feel your pain and this is why;
speaking of racism. I was working at a club in miami with my best friend and i left within like a couple hours because it seemed like i wasn't making as much money as i could somewhere else. I was frusturated and took a taxi to my hotel and told my gf to stay because she really needed to make more money that night.
He told my PUERTO RICAN BEST FRIEND (that stayed behind to work)THAT I LEFT BECAUSE I WAS RACIST! he didn't know she was puerto rican and she called him on it.
fuckers. I am the furthest thing from rasist but of course they have to call the girl that LOOKS 100 percent white rasist when she isn't 100 percent white OR rasist.
Still... pissed.
Lysondra
04-23-2008, 02:13 AM
I've never been called racist. Which is funny, because I make absurd race jokes all the time. But I do it to prove how stupid that shit sounds.
Huh.