View Full Version : Most disgusting thing a customer has done?
iambonbon05
05-23-2008, 09:44 PM
I had one really old guy who paid for EIGHT sets of 2-for-1 lapdances. He kept moaning and panting, all while telling me how naughty I was, what a naughty little schoolgirl, how I was hot for teacher, how we had to hide how we were fucking from my mom ...:O Eventually he got into telling me how I was bent over a wooden desk and wearing white panties. Then he let slip I was in first grade!!!
That's really sad :'(
Mayhem
05-23-2008, 11:25 PM
The nastiest ones though are those who smell terrible or get a hard on/go off in their pants when getting a private dance.
Just to clarify, a guy getting hard (without blowing a load) is nasty? Or is this by itself acceptable in your opinion?
Personally, I got half-hard during dances at the most. Can you blame a guy? I mean, you're fuckin' hot right? He's buying dances because he thinks you are.
There was also a lot of grinding in my experience. So it was pretty hard not to get at least a partial hard-on, without some serious mental diversion. But aren't we there to enjoy the experience? It would suck if I were expected to try so hard NOT to get a hard-on that it would become an un-enjoyable experience.
Anyone else care to comment?
OmarJones
05-24-2008, 06:41 AM
what is wrong with a guy getting a hard on, as long as he does not cum and make his pants wet
Golden_Rule
05-24-2008, 07:34 AM
I dont know why id admit these to you guys but here goes
I once had a girl custy in the vip, she was wearing a skirt, and when she came she moved her undies aside, told me to watch out and spewed all over the floor( alittle got on my leg):O guess she got a little too excited
i went up to a group of guys once and asked one for a ld, he wipped out a vibrator and told me hed get a dance only if he could use it( the whole group laughed)
a guy once asked if my kitty was shaved,,, then he added "just like a little baby's" ewwwwwww
one time a guy came in his pants and wanted me to keep dancing after i felt it on my leg GROSS he even held me down for a couple secs and got pissed when i stopped NASTY
Ok, I can see why any of these would be at least bothersome but...
This has actually happened more then once- a guy fixes himself then touches my back or my leg with the same hand
If the guy looks clean and obviously cares about his hygiene I don't see why that should be a problem. It's just skin. No different that if he touched his other arm and then touched you.
I have to be honest, if the thought of penis bothers you that much you are probably in the wrong line of work.
Just saying... :)
[now if he is a no showering, smells bad, dirty MF'er, totally different thing]
Golden_Rule
05-24-2008, 07:46 AM
Paid me to pee in a cup so he could drink it.
Now please don't get me wrong but my general rule of thumb on disgusting is: If I accept the money to do it it, it really can't be so disgusting because I wouldn't do something, for any amount of money, that totally disgusted me.
It keeps me out of the hypocrisy zone.
Again, just saying...
I'm not talking about anything you weren't party to the decision to become involved in. Like some guy splooging and not telling you about it. That is a total violation of trust. Then trying to hold you down in it? Have the bouncer bounce him off the sidewalk I say.
But some guy offers you to pee in a cup and you take the money, then call him disgusting... Hey, what were you then? You agreed to it.
This posted for no other reason then to suggest, since we are ALL people living in very glass houses around here, we ought be kinder to each other's little foibles. I do not promote peeing in cups, offering money to have people pee in cups, etc. It isn't something I'd advocate and pardon me but, "ewwww", as far as my own personal tastes would be concerned. But if someone wants to offer money for it, and you want to take it, that's fine by me. You all are grown people and can set your own boundries. I wouldn't call either of you "disgusting" for it.
Jenny
05-24-2008, 07:54 AM
Now please don't get me wrong but my general rule of thumb on disgusting is: If I accept the money to do it it, it really can't be so disgusting because I wouldn't do something, for any amount of money, that totally disgusted me.
I would suggest that arguing with her about what she finds disgusting is a silly and pointless endeavor. I suspect she is very well placed to know what disgusts her.
You may run your place of work any way you like. There is no point, however, in comparing your job to ours.
Golden_Rule
05-24-2008, 12:57 PM
I would suggest that arguing with her about what she finds disgusting is a silly and pointless endeavor. I suspect she is very well placed to know what disgusts her.
You may run your place of work any way you like. There is no point, however, in comparing your job to ours.
You never read what I write correctly. :)
I am not telling her what she should find disgusting. I am suggesting that calling someone else disgusting for doing something you agreed to be a willing participant in is a bit hypocritical.
In such a scenario where TWO capable adults enter into a mutually understood and consenting experience, compensated or not, either BOTH are behaving disgustingly or BOTH aren't.
Seems sort of simple common sense to me... but I have testicles, so what do I know. :)
Jenny
05-24-2008, 01:04 PM
You never read what I write correctly. :)
I am not telling her what she should find disgusting. I am suggesting that calling someone else disgusting for doing something you agreed to be a willing participant in is a bit hypocritical.
Yes. You are suggesting that she should not find something disgusting because she agreed to do it in exchange for money. I suggested that she is quite well situated to make that decision herself. Further I think this contention is a bit silly in a society where, regrettably, relatively few people work for the sheer joy of it and frequently, therefore, do things they find somewhat distasteful in exchange for money. Arguing that they forfeit the right to find them distasteful is silly. There is a big difference in constructing things we do for money and things we do for leisure - it's kind of a difference that a typical customers will just refuse to grasp when setting up these little juxtapositions. I mean, I understand wanting to view the exchange as equal, equivalent, mutual and the same, but the fact is, that it is not.
In such a scenario where TWO capable adults enter into a mutually understood and consenting experience, compensated or not, either BOTH are behaving disgustingly or BOTH aren't.
As I said - I think this is a silly contention.
Seems sort of simple common sense to me... but I have testicles, so what do I know. :)
Hey. You said it. I didn't. You might consider that you entered this thread only to argue that dancers not only should tolerate certain behaviours, but in fact don't even have the right or wherewithal to dislike them. Perhaps not an atypical attitude for a certain kind of stripclub customer, but maybe that should give you something to consider.
Golden_Rule
05-24-2008, 02:00 PM
Yes. You are suggesting that she should not find something disgusting because she agreed to do it in exchange for money.
No, that is NOT what I said.
Arguing that they forfeit the right to find them distasteful is silly.
Didn't say that either.
All I said is that while she, obviously, can decide for herself what she finds disgusting or not [who said differently?] she'd be ill advised to call someone else disgusting for doing something she was participating in herself if she didn't want to be called a hypocrite.
I appreciate your biting wit and your ironic view but this you have totally upside down.
Hey. You said it. I didn't. You might consider that you entered this thread only to argue that dancers not only should tolerate certain behaviours, but in fact don't even have the right or wherewithal to dislike them. Perhaps not an atypical attitude for a certain kind of stripclub customer, but maybe that should give you something to consider.
Feh. I entered this thread to promote the same thing I always promote. That people treat each other fairly. That includes not calling someone a pig in a snide way if you live in mud and eat from a trough.
Strippers and customers alike share in a symbiotic relationship. It isn't always equal. Power shifts in both directions under different circumstances. We aren't talking about power here though. We are talking fairness in labeling each others behaviors.
If we knowingly participate in a mutually decided upon act and you call me disgusting because I'm paying you to do it yet you are, quite willingly, taking the money I'm going to call you a prejudiced hypocrite [and I'd be well within the right to think so].
It's right for both or its right for neither.
Mayhem
05-24-2008, 02:44 PM
If a guy was willing to pay you a BILLION dollars to let him suck your dick, would you? Probably. I'm willing to guess that you'd find it digusting too.
Not attacking here, just trying to make a point. :)
MarvelGirl
05-24-2008, 04:36 PM
As an uninvolved third party I have to say that drinking a cup of piss is way more disgusting than pissing in a cup. Definitely.
Jenny
05-25-2008, 07:07 AM
As an uninvolved third party I have to say that drinking a cup of piss is way more disgusting than pissing in a cup. Definitely.I actually don't find either that disgusting. It's more that I don't think she forfeits her right to find things distasteful because she is paid to do them. A hotel maid is paid to clean up after guests - it doesn't mean she is obliged not to think they live like pigs.
Golden_Rule
05-25-2008, 07:26 AM
If a guy was willing to pay you a BILLION dollars to let him suck your dick, would you? Probably. I'm willing to guess that you'd find it digusting too.
Not attacking here, just trying to make a point. :)
I know you aren't attacking and I appreciate that. I hope folks stop taking what I say personally and understand I am just trying to make a point as well.
Your point isn't without merit. A lot of people think the way you are suggesting. I just think it allows us to lower other people below the point of "human" though so as means to validate our reasons for treating them unfairly. Remember, it is EXACTLY this line of thought that allows SOME customers to think of dancers as something, instead of someone.
What I would do, I would hope, is:
1) Decline the act if I thought it was truly disgusting to me, or
2) If the money was so good as to totally numb my sense of disgust with need or avarice, I'd trust I'd be wise enough to keep my sense of disgust to myself for two very good reasons.
. a) To keep from calling attention to the fact that I was willing to let money move me off a point of principle. [not that people don't do that all the time, it's just not wise to call attention to it].
. b) To not appear to be the pot calling the kettle black, which is exactly what this situation is. For the absolute ethical truth of this is, if it is disgusting of someone to make the offer it is equally disgusting to accept it. That is just how these things go.
I hope you understand what I am driving at. No one is saying anyone can't think what they want, but to take that a step beyond and presume one has a right to say something negative about someone else for participating in an act the name caller was willingly involved in themselves is a "self-rightous" act of bigotry and prejudice. For what makes that person better, since they were doing the same thing [and it is the same thing] then the person they are labling "disgusting".
wishing good things...
Golden_Rule
05-25-2008, 07:30 AM
As an uninvolved third party I have to say that drinking a cup of piss is way more disgusting than pissing in a cup. Definitely.
The peeing or the drinking aren't the acts we are discussing.
The acts are the offer and the acceptence. When placed in an ethical equation they are the same.
offer = acceptence . If one is disgusting, so is the other.
Golden_Rule
05-25-2008, 07:44 AM
I actually don't find either that disgusting.
I wouldn't do either, but if two adults find something satisfying in the exchange, be it profit or sexual gratification, I don't have a problem with it.
It's more that I don't think she forfeits her right to find things distasteful because she is paid to do them. A hotel maid is paid to clean up after guests - it doesn't mean she is obliged not to think they live like pigs.
I don't think she forfeits that right either.
I just think she should forfeit the right to call the other person involved "disgusting", since in taking the offer she is equally so [if *she* truly believes it was disgusting to make the offer, it was equally disgusting to except it]. Pot calling the kettle black, and all.
Jenny
05-25-2008, 08:01 AM
I just think she should forfeit the right to call the other person involved "disgusting", since in taking the offer she is equally so [if *she* truly believes it was disgusting to make the offer, it was equally disgusting to except it]. Pot calling the kettle black, and all.Sure. Except most reasonable human beings living in a society that exchanges labour as a commodity understand that people are situated differently when they are working than when they are playing. In this scenario we have one person working and one person playing (not coincidentally, the person being paid, and the person paying) and I don't believe that those situations are, by necessity, the same. We view the things we do for money as inherently different than the things we do for pleasure.
I do understand, however, that a certain kind of customer really, really wants to blind himself to this difference in the sex industry, so I get where you are coming from; it's the same as all the guys who inform us that our time in a stripclub has the same meaning and value as their's. It is a very, very familiar argument here. You are just not right, is all.
WiseGuy_TX
05-25-2008, 08:16 AM
...i'm waiting for Jenny's and G_R's make up sex video (minus cup peeing) to be posted on pornotube.com. It should be fabulously raw.
Golden_Rule
05-25-2008, 08:27 AM
Sure. Except most reasonable human beings living in a society that exchanges labour as a commodity understand that people are situated differently when they are working than when they are playing.
Something of a cop out.
If one where boss and the other subservient, yes, I'd agree. How much power are you giving the customer in this equation if you truly believe what you just said above? Doesn't it fly in the face of other stances you have taken regarding customer:dancer power ratios?
This is an offer to someone who is totally free to turn it down. In fact, to potentially have him bounced out of the building for making it in the first place.
We view the things we do for money as inherently different than the things we do for pleasure.
Yes, which is why I said to Mayhem that many people feel the same [and it appears you do to], but in the purity of the simple ethical equation we both know that is "situational" and that situational ethics aren't pure at all.
I acknowledge we are talking "lab quality" science here and that in the real world people don't play fair and folks use all sorts of devices to rationalize why what something they are doing is fair but unfair if it is done by someone else.
That doesn't make situational, or special arena, ethics right though.
You are just not right, is all.
{broad smile} So what else is new?
Jenny
05-25-2008, 08:34 AM
Something of a cop out.
Interestingly, I think the point of view that strippers and customers are situated exactly the same but opposite each other, and therefore the exact same standards apply to both is kind of a cop out. Although, as I said, I understand why a certain type of customer is fairly invested in that construction.
If one where boss and the other subservient, yes, I'd agree. How much power are you giving the customer in this equation if you truly believe what you just said above? Doesn't it fly in the face of other stances you have taken regarding customer:dancer power ratios?
No. A) I don't believe and have never said that power ratios between dancers are customers are static and B) I'm not talking about power or power dynamics. I'm talking about an inherent difference of situation and perspective.
Golden_Rule
05-25-2008, 08:46 AM
Interestingly, I think the point of view that strippers and customers are situated exactly the same but opposite each other, and therefore the exact same standards apply to both is kind of a cop out. Although, as I said, I understand why a certain type of customer is fairly invested in that construction.
So, basically, you are saying that if someone of free will makes an offer and another of free will accepts it, one can be ethically disgusting in making the offer but the other free from ethical obligation in the acceptance because, why?
Or are you suggesting that the dancer in this equation does not have free will to decline the offer? And if so, why?
No. A) I don't believe and have never said that power ratios between dancers are customers are static and B) I'm not talking about power or power dynamics. I'm talking about an inherent difference of situation and perspective.
In the laboratory of pure ethical consideration situation has no bearing. It is ethically right in all situations or it is ethically right in none. And personal perspective is the fodder of situational ethics. I'm not telling you anything you aren't aware of though.
thechaosfairy
05-25-2008, 08:54 AM
If the guy looks clean and obviously cares about his hygiene I don't see why that should be a problem. It's just skin. No different that if he touched his other arm and then touched you.
I just wanted to say, this is factually incorrect.
Penises secrete bodily fluids (which can carry disease.)
Arms don't.
It would be more like if he chewed his nail or picked his nose.
Jenny
05-25-2008, 09:01 AM
So, basically, you are saying that if someone of free will makes an offer and another of free will accepts it, one can be ethically disgusting in making the offer but the other free from ethical obligation in the acceptance because, why?
Because the exchange of money in the context of one's employment will frequently alter the situation and the perspective of the parties, rendering that juxtaposition either incomplete or invalid. You know. Like I said: what we do for work is qualitatively different than what we do for recreation.
In the laboratory of pure ethical consideration situation has no bearing. It is ethically right in all situations or it is ethically right in none. And personal perspective is the fodder of situational ethics. I'm not telling you anything you aren't aware of though.
What a ridiculous contention; that ethics cannot take into account different situations. You will pardon me if I simply assert that as wrong and incredibly simplistic.
Golden_Rule
05-25-2008, 09:14 AM
Because the exchange of money in the context of one's employment will frequently alter the situation and the perspective of the parties, rendering that juxtaposition either incomplete or invalid. You know. Like I said: what we do for work is qualitatively different than what we do for recreation.
I know it does... Hence what I said below [special attention to bold text]:
What I would do, I would hope, is:What I would do, I would hope, is:
1) Decline the act if I thought it was truly disgusting to me, or
2) If the money was so good as to totally numb my sense of disgust with need or avarice, I'd trust I'd be wise enough to keep my sense of disgust to myself for two very good reasons.
. a) To keep from calling attention to the fact that I was willing to let money move me off a point of principle. [not that people don't do that all the time, it's just not wise to call attention to it].
. b) To not appear to be the pot calling the kettle black, which is exactly what this situation is. For the absolute ethical truth of this is, if it is disgusting of someone to make the offer it is equally disgusting to accept it. That is just how these things go.
Using the example from this thread: The want or the need of the money may excuse the dancer placing it in front of her feelings of disgust of the act, but does that also allow her to call the man placing the offer on the table disgusting when she, herself, accepted it?
Seems VERY harsh to me, and again more than a tad hypocritical [not to mention potentially bigoted and prejudicial].
Golden_Rule
05-25-2008, 09:25 AM
I just wanted to say, this is factually incorrect.
Penises secrete bodily fluids (which can carry disease.)
Arms don't.
It would be more like if he chewed his nail or picked his nose.
So might the vagina, right through the skimpy fabric of g-strings and thongs.
If customers thought the way you are suggesting you wouldn't need to be concerned about it because you wouldn't have any... customers that is.
I wish some dancers would apply, or allow, the same considerations for customers they would ask for themselves.
One would think that isn't a lot to ask for: being willing to give to others what you request for yourself.
Paris
05-25-2008, 09:32 AM
I'd always feel the most disgusted when a customer wanted to share his pedo fantasies. Sometimes it was about his own kids:no:.
Dirty Ernie
05-25-2008, 10:15 AM
Well according to our local ethics nazi, you are allowed to feel disgusted, but by expressing your disgust here, you are now a hypocrite.
And technically G_R , all the dancer did was pee in a cup. That was her end of the contract. Not a disgusting thing by a long shot. What if the customer just wanted to run to the men's room and flush down the toilet. I doubt she would have found that disgusting. Whatever he did with it, her obligation was fulfilled at filling the cup. You cannot hold her ethically responsible for acts committed post the completed transaction.
TheTempest
05-25-2008, 11:05 AM
Yeah, to me it's a lot different to pee in a cup than to drink said pee. And she has every right to be disgusted by his actions, hypocritical or not, because a lot of our job is dealing in fantasy. Our customers fantasies. We may find them to be taboo or perverse but we do them because (OMG) that's our JOB.
Are we lowering our standards or compromising our principles? Maybe. Do we have to be silent about it and expect to be lambasted if we mention our disgust? Hell no. We did what most people would do in society and took the money.
Two willing adults, yes. But one is more invested in the situation than the other (ie the one who desires something and is willing to part with the all important Goddess "cash" for it) and the other is merely doing something that falls under the heading of their line of work. Sex workers are not hypocritical for thinking your particular fantasies are disgusting.
Golden_Rule
05-25-2008, 11:09 AM
Well according to our local ethics nazi, you are allowed to feel disgusted, but by expressing your disgust here, you are now a hypocrite.
Ernie, no one is telling anyone else what is "allowed" and what isn't. That "nazi" thing is one of the most tired bits of business on the internet. Anytime someone gets a bit deep, or says something someone else doesn't particularly like it pops out.
I am expressing an opinion and, MORE IMPORTANTLY, attempting to stimulate thought on a matter.
People with strong opinions of their own won't change their minds easily. Jenny is going to believe what she believes, as will I, because we've thought about these things already. Others, one would hope, who are reading along might stop a moment to think about things that don't get thought about enough.
In that way discussions like these, and boards such as this, help a bit because they give people reason to stop and consider what they do to each other.
In the end the only person who has to be comfort in your skin is you. *I* have no status in the matter and aren't claiming any. I'm cool with mine. How about you? [If you are, fine by me, but have you thought about it lately?]
Dirty Ernie
05-25-2008, 11:21 AM
Are you incapable of remembering what you have written in this thread? I hardly find you deep. Tedious is a more apt description.
Golden_Rule
05-25-2008, 12:56 PM
Sex workers are not hypocritical for thinking your particular fantasies are disgusting.
No, they aren't. That isn't what I said though.
I said they are hypocritical if being involved in sex work, which many people would label as disgusting behavior [something I am sure strippers don't think they deserve - and I would agree], they then label their customers as disgusting.
You see, it is because they would be doing something to someone else they wouldn't want done to them.
People judge you and call you disgusting for being strippers. You then turn around and judge someone else and call them disgusting for being involved in an act you agreed to take part in.
Don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to yourselves. If you do, at the very least you are a hypocrite.
I truly don't see what is so hard to grasp about that? :) {he said, smiling good naturedly and hoping for civility to rule the day}
Golden_Rule
05-25-2008, 01:00 PM
Are you incapable of remembering what you have written in this thread? I hardly find you deep. Tedious is a more apt description.
If I bother you that much you don't have to read what I write. No one is compelling you but you.
::)
Sheesh, he wants to edit me. Censor my thoughts. Yet he calls ME a Nazi.
Go figure.
And let me predict your response: No, I am not trying to tell people what to do. I am asking them to think about what they do. To ask themselves: Am I about to do something to someone else I wouldn't want done to me?
Seems to me that a huge part of what folks complain about being problems in strip-clubs, on all sides of the equation, would go away if customers, dancers, management, everyone, just did that before they do what they do when they do it.
TheTempest
05-25-2008, 01:37 PM
No, they aren't. That isn't what I said though.
I said they are hypocritical if being involved in sex work, which many people would label as disgusting behavior [something I am sure strippers don't think they deserve - and I would agree], they then label their customers as disgusting.
You see, it is because they would be doing something to someone else they wouldn't want done to them.
People judge you and call you disgusting for being strippers. You then turn around and judge someone else and call them disgusting for being involved in an act you agreed to take part in.
Don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to yourselves. If you do, at the very least you are a hypocrite.
I truly don't see what is so hard to grasp about that? :) {he said, smiling good naturedly and hoping for civility to rule the day}
People are entitled to feel that our job is disgusting. I don't agree, but that's life. They're also entitled to keep their feelings to themselves and not tell the person DIRECTLY involved with the action their opinions about them.
Our saying that a customer is disgusting to other dancers is not the same as telling the customer directly that they are disgusting. So I feel it's everyone's right to say to their friends (who I assume are like minded people) that they think stripping is digusting. They would not be as welcome to say it to me. That does not make me hypocritical, those are two different audiences for the reception of the comment. Saying it on here DOES NOT make the girl a hypocrite. Saying it to the customer, maybe.
Also, stripping is completely different from voluntarily ingesting someone's waste products (something probably unhealthy to do in the first place). We're not slathering him in our vajayjay juices.
And to a previous comment of yours... rubbing a thong on some guys pants is very different from him grabbing his precum coated penis and then touching our arm. The level of contact is different and terms of sanitation as well. In my club, we are full nude and use lap dance clothes (sort of like a beach blanket) so there IS no juice worries for the guys.
Golden_Rule
05-25-2008, 02:50 PM
People are entitled to feel that our job is disgusting. I don't agree, but that's life. They're also entitled to keep their feelings to themselves and not tell the person DIRECTLY involved with the action their opinions about them.
Our saying that a customer is disgusting to other dancers is not the same as telling the customer directly that they are disgusting.
I don't disagree that folks can feel any way they want to feel. I am just saying they shouldn't use those feelings to hurt others, particularly in a way they suffer from being hurt themselves. Propagating negative stereotypes hurts others.
You'd think people who suffered at the perceptions of others would be specifically attuned to what that feels like and less likely to do it to others, not more.
I guess its just me. Before I retired I spent 25 years seeing every rotten, vindictive, hurtful, outright evil thing one human being could do to another and stopping it when I could. It was my job.
The world can be a pretty ugly place. A lot of it is deliberate, but so much of it is just lack of forethought. I just wish people would realize it would be relatively easy to change much of that if they just took the time to think about what they do before they do it.
That does not make me hypocritical, those are two different audiences for the reception of the comment. Saying it on here DOES NOT make the girl a hypocrite. Saying it to the customer, maybe.
To me, the very definition of a hypocrite is someone who would say what they truly think about you to someone else, and something different to your face.
Also, stripping is completely different from voluntarily ingesting someone's waste products (something probably unhealthy to do in the first place). We're not slathering him in our vajayjay juices.
And to a previous comment of yours... rubbing a thong on some guys pants is very different from him grabbing his precum coated penis and then touching our arm. The level of contact is different and terms of sanitation as well. In my club, we are full nude and use lap dance clothes (sort of like a beach blanket) so there IS no juice worries for the guys.
I was just using it as an example of POSSIBLE hypocritical thinking.
Maybe it was a bad example. :)
As the kids say... anyway.
wishing you very well...
Electrum
05-25-2008, 04:06 PM
^^ I can see what you're saying. Not everyone appreciates the philosophers ;) hehe. It is for this reason that I try and keep my philosophizing to a minimum when I know I'm in an environment that isn't so receptive to it. I love debating, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, you know?
Ethical systems are way more complex than most people realize. I'm sure ya'll could debate for eons!
Golden_Rule
05-25-2008, 05:23 PM
^^ I can see what you're saying. Not everyone appreciates the philosophers ;) hehe. It is for this reason that I try and keep my philosophizing to a minimum when I know I'm in an environment that isn't so receptive to it. I love debating, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, you know?
Yes, well, I admit that gets lost on me sometimes.
You know strip-clubs could be such joyous places. It is fantasy and sexuality. Everyone getting something they want from the exchange. All good things. Everyone gets so lost in running numbers on each other, and judging, etc. Sucks much of the joy right out of it.
It doesn't have to be that way.
Ethical systems are way more complex than most people realize. I'm sure ya'll could debate for eons!
Yes, I am sure.
I'm with Thoreau on that account though. "Simplify. Simplify. Simplify."
And nothing is simpler than "The Golden Rule". [please pardon the self-effacing pun] :)
yoda57us
05-25-2008, 06:35 PM
You know strip-clubs could be such joyous places. It is fantasy and sexuality. Everyone getting something they want from the exchange. All good things. Everyone gets so lost in running numbers on each other, and judging, etc. Sucks much of the joy right out of it.
It doesn't have to be that way.
Well, I agree with you GR but I have to be honest, I have a great time when I go to a club and a big part of it is because I find the ladies who are up beat and professional in doing their jobs. I don't go looking for drama and I tend to avoid dancers who do as well.
I dunno, I've been clubbing and enjoying it for a lot of years. I also know quite a few dancers who have been at it for well over ten years (one for about 15) and they are all quite happy in their endeavors. Of course it's not a day at the beach every shift but no job is.
To be sure the negative stuff is out there but it's also very easy to avoid.
"Joyous" is a choice for both the customer and the dancer.
Skullqueen
05-25-2008, 06:41 PM
I was bent over and oing my thing on stage when this drunk guy came up and pulled my thong back and tryed to stick his fingers in !URGG!!
Golden_Rule
05-25-2008, 10:05 PM
To be sure the negative stuff is out there but it's also very easy to avoid. "Joyous" is a choice for both the customer and the dancer.
Truly Yoda? Not for those with open eyes, ears and minds who can't turn any of it off.
You can't even avoid the negative stuff in here. There is all manner of gaming going on. Men saying anything they presume the women want to hear because they think it will help get them closer to nirvana [you want to talk about disgusting, its so deep around here sometimes because of this type of B.S. you need hip-waders to walk about]. Dancers bragging about how they clipped some guy in the "hustle hut" [though I am very happy to see that has changed some, and unlike the old days other dancers are more likely to get on said culprit and tell them its not nice to take advantage of drunk, stupid, men].
Even sniping among long term members. A huge walk off recently and a get together in NYC that should have been simple fun for all was marred by drama, by way of example.
If it can't be curtailed in this controlled environment how much less so "out in the wild".
No, I am afraid it isn't a matter of avoiding but more turning of deaf ear and blind eye. Some of us don't have the luxury. Been too long with the antenna set to high gain to block reception of what is so obviously being transmitted.
Anyway... probably a bad time to be writing this. I am VERY, VERY, tired and when I am this tired I am worse then if I've had a few JDs. I lose most internal editing functionality and say precisely what is on my mind. It has been a fun, but exhausting, weekend. To bed I go.
Best wishes to All.
TheTempest
05-26-2008, 12:45 AM
I don't disagree that folks can feel any way they want to feel. I am just saying they shouldn't use those feelings to hurt others, particularly in a way they suffer from being hurt themselves. Propagating negative stereotypes hurts others.
You'd think people who suffered at the perceptions of others would be specifically attuned to what that feels like and less likely to do it to others, not more.
To me, the very definition of a hypocrite is someone who would say what they truly think about you to someone else, and something different to your face.
We're not propagating negative stereotypes if we think drinking urine is disgusting.
Also, you just called us all hypocrites for saying to guys that we're interested in them sexually when we aren't which is essentially our job. That sort of thing WILL get people pissed at you. A hypocrite is someone who says that something is within their beliefs or morals and does the opposite (or someone who pretends to be virtuous and religious but is not). Your definition is wrong. You dislike LIARS.
And trying to eliminate the world of those would take a nuclear holocaust. Everyone lies. Whether it's by saying to a gf, "No you don't look fat" or "I did not sleep with that woman", it's all the same act but some are done out of kindness.
Frankly we see some people that probably have NEVER gotten laid and would have trouble doing so now. We make them feel good about themselves sometimes by LYING to them. Do we think they smell? Yes. Do their grabby ways piss us off? YES. Does their desire to drink urine disgust us? Yes. But we tell them it doesn't and it's a lie. But that's what we do.
Golden_Rule
05-26-2008, 02:59 AM
Also, you just called us all hypocrites for saying to guys that we're interested in them sexually when we aren't which is essentially our job.
I am sure that works on some people.
What works on me is being upfront. Don't tell me you are interested in me, a guy you don't know you meet in your work, the last place you'd look for guys who interest you sexually. Tell me you are interested in providing a service to me. Even if its just making me smile. Just entertain me in some way. That is what I am in the S-C for, to be entertained. That dancer is getting my money. I can smell insincerity on folks, and it is usually anything but entertaining.
That sort of thing WILL get people pissed at you.
I'm no stranger to having people pissed off at me. Though it is almost always for something they've done that I've caught them at and provided negative repercussions for. You'd think they'd realize they ought to be pissed at themselves for doing what it was I caught them at. Not at me for documenting what they've done.
There are some fine people here [that would be men and women alike]. I'd rather they not be pissed off at me, but I think I'd be less then respectful to them if I did what some other folks do around here and just run a line on them to try and curry their favor.
I let my freak flag fly. Let folks see me for what I am, and am not. I say what I mean, mean it with kindness in most cases, and try to be straight with folks. I figure that is all one can do.
Frankly we see some people that probably have NEVER gotten laid and would have trouble doing so now. We make them feel good about themselves sometimes by LYING to them. Do we think they smell? Yes. Do their grabby ways piss us off? YES. Does their desire to drink urine disgust us? Yes. But we tell them it doesn't and it's a lie. But that's what we do.
While I am not 100% sure of it I am fairly close to certain you never do anyone good service by lying to them. Particularly about stuff like that. If I were a dancer I'd never give some guy the idea I am interested in them physically if I wasn't . That just creates stalkers. I'd just tell them I could make them happier then they are at that moment in some way, then I would.
The VERY BEST, MOST EROTIC, entertainers I've ever known never told me they were interested in me sexually. They gave me some reason to think they could read me, knew were my buttons where [sensually or sexually] and promised to push them. I'm not talking about she has to provide extras. I'm talking about she knows her craft. Knows a man by looking at him what makes his brain swim around and get fuzzy at its edges. She doesn't make me think she wants ME, she makes me know I want HER to entertain me.
That can be sold for real, with no lies. Why would I pay to be lied to? Guys who desire that truly are PLs. Here is some money, please lie to me [ugh]. [If you read a trip report of mine I posted in blue you'd see that is just what I hate about places like the Hustler Club and PEC. It is so plastic and insincere. Give me a biker go-go bar with a tatooed chick who tells me I stink from a hard ride but for $100 she'll blow in my ear, tell me a dirty joke, and make me laugh at myself till I piss my pants any day of the week. ]
Everyone lies.
Yep. You are probably right about that. I try to do mine by omission alone. I won't walk up to you, look you straight in the eye, and lie to you. I just won't tell you something I know you don't want to hear. So I'll drop this now, because after talking to you for a bit I think I like what I hear about you for the most part. You haven't told me to "F" off. You've just told me what you think with honesty and no meanness in it.
In doing so I am telling a sort of a lie, because I won't bring this up with you again unless you do it first because I know you don't, or won't, like what I have to say on the topic. It is the kind of a lie I can live with though.
I'll shut up now. Except to say I wish you nothing but the best and that ain't a lie. :)
Jenny
05-26-2008, 05:22 AM
Truly Yoda? Not for those with open eyes, ears and minds who can't turn any of it off.
You can't even avoid the negative stuff in here. This, my friend, is not a stripclub. Avoiding this sort of discussion in a stripclub is very easy. Just find a dancer who is willing to nod and smile in exchange for money.
Jay Zeno
05-26-2008, 07:22 AM
I'm in yoda's camp. Sure, I can see and hear drama when it's happening, but that's not why I go to a stripclub. I go there to have fun. It's really simple.
Leave the world behind when you walk in.
If you're not having fun, trying something else.
If you're still not having fun, leave.
Leave the club behind when you walk out.
Almost all of my faves were drama-free. If they started in some drama, they stopped being my fave.
I hardly find you deep. Tedious is a more apt description.
Sheesh, he wants to edit me. Censor my thoughts.
I have to say, in skimming through this, that was pretty funny. Kinda on the order of, "Help! I'm being repressed!"
yoda57us
05-26-2008, 07:31 AM
Truly Yoda? Not for those with open eyes, ears and minds who can't turn any of it off.
Dude, you wanna be a martyr that's your business. I work hard, support my family, pay my taxes, vote responsibly and treat others as I would like to be treated myself. I walk into a strip club to enjoy myself for a few hours. I find dancers who want to help me do that. If you can't do that then I guess you have a problem...
You can't even avoid the negative stuff in here.
Sure you can, don't come here and read it.
Your insistence in trying to create drama where there isn't any is laughable though tiresome at times....
jaizaine
05-26-2008, 07:42 AM
I actually don't find either that disgusting. It's more that I don't think she forfeits her right to find things distasteful because she is paid to do them. A hotel maid is paid to clean up after guests - it doesn't mean she is obliged not to think they live like pigs.
I agree with this. I have danced for many men who I find totally disgusting. I dont enjoy being told how they would lick my pussy for hours and that I would love it, I don't enjoy people touching me after I told them there is no touching allowed, I don't enjoy people nuzzling into my neck. I do my job and I dance well for people who I sometimes find disgusting. Don't tell me that I am not allowed to find someone or something disgusting just because I took money for it. That's a ridiculous argument.
Golden_Rule
05-26-2008, 11:10 AM
Don't tell me that I am not allowed to find someone or something disgusting just because I took money for it. That's a ridiculous argument.
Just for the record, that isn't what I am saying.
Dirty Ernie
05-26-2008, 12:10 PM
Ok, one more try here. Is your contention that she should not express her disgust of his act without some sort of self admission of her own disgustingness (that's awkward), to avoid being a hypocrite? Maybe she did, but not in her post. Anyway, I still contend her obligation is fulfilled at the filling of the cup, regardless of any knowledge of his future intentions.
How about I give you my 5 dimes for your shiny quarter. Now, let's say I take your quarter and shove it up my ass, take it out and pop it in my mouth, all in your presence. Under your rules, having been a participant in this transaction, even profiting from it, you cannot express any disgust for me without announcing your role as an equally disgusting endorser. Umm..OK.
yoda57us
05-26-2008, 12:50 PM
... because I am about to get more personal about myself than I usually do.
Lol, that's a laugh! You lay this crap about your training and background on us all the time in the same vague and mysterious way. It really has no relevance to the rest of us GR, we all come here to opine, not dig into irrelevant personal back grounds...but hey, as long as Pryce or TOO or whomever is willing to pay for the bandwidth, I guess you can prattle on if you must...
I do wish people would just use S-Cs [and stripperweb for that matter] to have fun and not try to rip each other off and use each other. I mean other then for what was mutually agreed upon with fully informed, unperturbed by alcohol or drugs, consent at any rate. It would make it a much better place for dudes like me, with high gain antennas we can't turn off in places like that, to just let loose and have fun ourselves. :) <-- see, this is me trying to lighten up.
It's not easy being you is it GR?
I have always maintained that strip clubs are a microcosm of society itself, albeit, hyped-up and on steroids. The things that bug you about clubs go on every day in the non-SC world as well. People in all sorts of businesses are guilty of the same sort of bad behavior that you are complaining about here. I try not to deal with bad people in my real world endeavors but sometimes it is unavoidable. When I go into a strip club the choice is very clearly mine who I will spend time and money on. It's really pretty simple, a lot simpler than you choose to make it. Honestly, I think you enjoy the drama.
Jay Zeno
05-26-2008, 12:59 PM
I think you enjoy the drama.That's what I'm getting out of it, too. Whatever winds your clock.
Golden_Rule
05-26-2008, 01:56 PM
Ok, one more try here. Is your contention that she should not express her disgust of his act without some sort of self admission of her own disgustingness (that's awkward), to avoid being a hypocrite? Maybe she did, but not in her post. Anyway, I still contend her obligation is fulfilled at the filling of the cup, regardless of any knowledge of his future intentions.
How about I give you my 5 dimes for your shiny quarter. Now, let's say I take your quarter and shove it up my ass, take it out and pop it in my mouth, all in your presence. Under your rules, having been a participant in this transaction, even profiting from it, you cannot express any disgust for me without announcing your role as an equally disgusting endorser. Umm..OK.
Your example lacks knowledge of the intent of the user of the quarter.
In the previous the pee'er knows exactly what the intent is with the content of the cup.
To answer your question: No, all I am advocating is a bit more self-awareness. That will naturally lead to knowing where one fits in the equation and result in not passing judgement as quickly, or vocally.
Again, not doing to others what we wouldn't want done to ourselves. That's all.
Jay Zeno
05-26-2008, 04:50 PM
Short version:
Thanks for not posting the long version. (Edit: This was an attempt to be funny because, before the edit, the original "short version" was pretty long.)
Hope that answers any unresolved issues you two, and any others, may have with references to profiling and other training I've had, and sideways remarks to my previous work.I had no unresolved issues, I guessed that your background included police or investigative work but I wouldn't have been surprised if I were wrong, I have no assumptions other than that to profile you with nor do I profile in any event, I neither know nor care much about your training, and other than this paragraph, I don't remember making any sideways remarks to your previous work.
And I still believe you enjoy the drama.