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Earl_the_Pearl
06-12-2009, 11:41 PM
14. Have you ever dated a European aristocrat? From what country? What was her father's title of nobility?

I ass/u/me it would have to be a WASP European country.

Cyril
06-13-2009, 09:47 AM
So again, to repeat what it came down to pages ago - it's about societies issues and the man in question's insecurities and trust issues. Plain and simple.

One man cannot change the world. When we are young we tend to be idealists. We say hello to deliverymen in the elevator. We do not think there is anything wrong with dating a stripper.

But as we grow older we realize that we better change our ideals or we too will become an outcast. Then we stop saying hello to deliverymen and cleaning ladies. And of course dating a stripper can never be an option if you want to survive in the society.

In this world, image is everything. When I was young, I did not worry much about my image. I just did things that my heart and soul wanted me to do. But I quickly realized that I would amount to nothing if I continued on that path.

This is a very hard choice.

hockeybobby
06-13-2009, 10:01 AM
One man cannot change the world. When we are young we tend to be idealists. We say hello to deliverymen in the elevator. We do not think there is anything wrong with dating a stripper.

But as we grow older we realize that we better change our ideals or we too will become an outcast. Then we stop saying hello to deliverymen and cleaning ladies. And of course dating a stripper can never be an option if you want to survive in the society.

In this world, image is everything. When I was young, I did not worry much about my image. I just did things that my heart and soul wanted me to do. But I quickly realized that I would amount to nothing if I continued on that path.

This is a very hard choice.

Whoa...that's a sad state of affairs Cyril. Can't say hello to deliverymen and cleaning ladies? Always doing what others want, not what you want?

It takes balls to do what you want, what feels right to you, regardless of how others may squawk. It is an issue of manhood I believe. You are right that you have a hard choice to make.

JayATee
06-13-2009, 10:31 AM
One man cannot change the world. When we are young we tend to be idealists. We say hello to deliverymen in the elevator. We do not think there is anything wrong with dating a stripper.

But as we grow older we realize that we better change our ideals or we too will become an outcast. Then we stop saying hello to deliverymen and cleaning ladies. And of course dating a stripper can never be an option if you want to survive in the society.

In this world, image is everything. When I was young, I did not worry much about my image. I just did things that my heart and soul wanted me to do. But I quickly realized that I would amount to nothing if I continued on that path.

This is a very hard choice.

You can't say hello to a deliveryman why? You have become too concerned about your image. This is what will make you amount to nothing. You're going to miss a lot of really cool things and a lot of really cool people with this attitude, and you will be a lesser person with lesser experiences because of that. Hockeybobby's right. This is sad.

Cyril
06-13-2009, 12:47 PM
JayA & Bobby,

It is not accurate to say that I am worried about my image for the sake of image. There is a nobler reason behind that. I know it is hypocritical to not have any problem with one night stand with strippers while expressing concerns about dating or marrying them. But that is the way world is. I did not create it. I just live in it.

MarvelGirl
06-13-2009, 01:38 PM
One man cannot change the world. When we are young we tend to be idealists. We say hello to deliverymen in the elevator. We do not think there is anything wrong with dating a stripper.

But as we grow older we realize that we better change our ideals or we too will become an outcast. Then we stop saying hello to deliverymen and cleaning ladies. And of course dating a stripper can never be an option if you want to survive in the society.

In this world, image is everything. When I was young, I did not worry much about my image. I just did things that my heart and soul wanted me to do. But I quickly realized that I would amount to nothing if I continued on that path.

This is a very hard choice.

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. My husband's aunt married a man from an extremely wealth family several years ago, and they would look at you as the classless fool you are.

The people I'm speak of give several million dollars to charity each year and yet they have no problem saying "good morning" to their cleaning lady or addressing a human being who is delivering to them a package. They even sometimes make polite conversation with *gasp* their waitress!

I don't believe that you belong to some elite social class that demands you not sully yourself by associating with "commoners". I think you just watch too much TV and like to be pretend rich on the internet.

JayATee
06-13-2009, 02:46 PM
JayA & Bobby,

It is not accurate to say that I am worried about my image for the sake of image. There is a nobler reason behind that. I know it is hypocritical to not have any problem with one night stand with strippers while expressing concerns about dating or marrying them. But that is the way world is. I did not create it. I just live in it.

::) Bull. What MarvelGirl said...

Cyril
06-13-2009, 02:47 PM
,

You are missing the point. Once a person has several million dollars then he does not need anyone else’s approval to survive. He can do whatever he pleases. Until that happens, he has to worry about his image.

Once I become a CEO then I will openly date a stripper. :D

Earl_the_Pearl
06-13-2009, 02:50 PM
ripper can never be an option if you want to survive in the society.

In this world, image is everything.
It is better to look good then to feel good. You look marvelous.

Earl_the_Pearl
06-13-2009, 02:56 PM
I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. My husband's aunt married a man from an extremely wealth family several years ago, and they would look at you as the classless fool you are.

Do they have a service entrance in their house?

Cyril
06-13-2009, 02:56 PM
It is better to look good then to feel good. You look marvelous.

Sometimes you have to sacrifice "feel good" to achieve your objectives. That is just part of life.

Earl_the_Pearl
06-13-2009, 03:02 PM
Sometimes you have to sacrifice "feel good" to achieve your objectives. That is just part of life.
We all come out tied in the end.

JayATee
06-13-2009, 03:16 PM
MarvelGirl (http://forum.stripperweb.com/member.php?u=66719),

You are missing the point. Once a person has several million dollars then he does not need anyone else’s approval to survive. He can do whatever he pleases. Until that happens, he has to worry about his image.

Once I become a CEO then I will openly date a stripper. :D

Only shallow people who are worthless to begin with would say any of this.

Cyril
06-13-2009, 03:25 PM
Only shallow people who are worthless to begin with would say any of this.

I am not shallow. I like strippers and find them to be truly fascinating. I have stated that several times and have been mocked by a few posters for saying those words if my memory serves me right.

Society we live in does not hold strippers in high esteem. People who do not approve of pole dancing profession range from middle class to upper class in terms of income.

What I am trying to say is that it is the social norm which will prevent me from dating a stripper not my own wishes. My own wishes are to see a woman in stripper shoes. And, as you can see they run contrary to what most people would call prudent.

lopaw
06-13-2009, 05:59 PM
One man cannot change the world. When we are young we tend to be idealists. We say hello to deliverymen in the elevator. We do not think there is anything wrong with dating a stripper.

But as we grow older we realize that we better change our ideals or we too will become an outcast. Then we stop saying hello to deliverymen and cleaning ladies. And of course dating a stripper can never be an option if you want to survive in the society.

In this world, image is everything. When I was young, I did not worry much about my image. I just did things that my heart and soul wanted me to do. But I quickly realized that I would amount to nothing if I continued on that path.

This is a very hard choice.



Wow.
Anyone who lets themselves be held such a prisoner to society's "norms" and is so obsessed with the image they present and their "stature" in society is destined for an empty, envy-filled, and choice-limited life.

My sympathies to you.

MarvelGirl
06-13-2009, 07:37 PM
MarvelGirl (http://forum.stripperweb.com/member.php?u=66719),

You are missing the point. Once a person has several million dollars then he does not need anyone else’s approval to survive. He can do whatever he pleases. Until that happens, he has to worry about his image.

Once I become a CEO then I will openly date a stripper. :D

lol, no you're missing the point. I said nothing of dating strippers. YOU claimed that you are unable to say hello to a cleaning lady or delivery man because it's not considered appropriate in your society. I just called shenanigans on your foolishness.

You remind me of a man I met when I took a job as a unicom girl at a small private airport back in high school. My job was pretty much just to look pretty, be friendly, and give out radio checks and wind conditions on the radio to pilots who owned planes which they used for leisure purposes.

There was this one blowhard who was constantly ranting about people's "class" and proper social etiquette. He was the poorest man in the building. Everyone knew that he was one step away from losing it all, and he eventually did. That's what happens to "pretend rich" people.

The funny thing was that every time one of my "lower class" schoolmates came in, or a new person looking to take flying lessons, they were SO impressed by this joker. They would marvel to me and the other pilots about how he was so incredibly rich and must be very important. Then they'd become confused when we'd all laugh at them.

The thing is, many strippers have been in the company of the very wealthy, that's kind of part of our job description, so since this is a stripper website, we can recognize that you're just a wanna be and see just how ridiculous you are.

You just keep selling your stories to the small town little cashier girl down at the local grocery where you buy your lonely man meals. I'm sure she thinks you're very impressive, but I for one, am not buying it.

Thanks for the laughs, but now you're ignored.

Cyril
06-13-2009, 08:03 PM
Wow.
Anyone who lets themselves be held such a prisoner to society's "norms" and is so obsessed with the image they present and their "stature" in society is destined for an empty, envy-filled, and choice-limited life.

My sympathies to you.

That is a whole different issue. I accept your sympathy. It is better to have an empty life filled with lots of milestones.

Cyril
06-13-2009, 08:07 PM
MarvelGirl,

It is a very common practice in pretty much any notable corporate building to ignore cleaning staff, delivery people and such as if they do not exist. Those people who do the ignoring are not necessarily wealthy like yourself. They could very well be the poor wanna be rich like myself.

I think I like your idea of you ignoring my post because we do not seem to be communicating well anyway.

JayATee
06-13-2009, 08:08 PM
I am not shallow. I like strippers and find them to be truly fascinating. I have stated that several times and have been mocked by a few posters for saying those words if my memory serves me right.

Society we live in does not hold strippers in high esteem. People who do not approve of pole dancing profession range from middle class to upper class in terms of income.

What I am trying to say is that it is the social norm which will prevent me from dating a stripper not my own wishes. My own wishes are to see a woman in stripper shoes. And, as you can see they run contrary to what most people would call prudent.

Oh please. Im not talking about strippers. Are you honestly saying that not saying hello to a deliveryman because of the effect it might have on your imaginary social standing isn't shallow? Give me a break. Where do you ppl get this crap?

JayATee
06-13-2009, 08:09 PM
MarvelGirl,

It is a very common practice in pretty much any notable corporate building to ignore cleaning staff, delivery people and such as if they do not exist. Those people who do the ignoring are not necessarily wealthy like yourself. They could very well be the poor wanna be rich like myself.

I think I like your idea of you ignoring my post because we do not seem to be communicating well anyway.

You're an idiot. Stop talking please.

Cyril
06-13-2009, 08:22 PM
Oh please. Im not talking about strippers. Are you honestly saying that not saying hello to a deliveryman because of the effect it might have on your imaginary social standing isn't shallow? Give me a break. Where do you ppl get this crap?

I cannot take blame for something I did not create. The society is the way it is. You have to play by the rule or else you are out of the game. It is that simple.

I would be shallow if I approved of those actions. I do not approve of those actions. Therefore, you cannot call me shallow.

Earl_the_Pearl
06-13-2009, 09:07 PM
I have to admit Cyril is correct. If I were making a delivery and some random guy said hello I would figure he was a homosexual hitting on me. In the NYC area strangers do not make eye contact.

Cyril
06-13-2009, 09:32 PM
That too. :)

commanderadama
06-13-2009, 10:34 PM
I'm being persuaded that the American class systems in the fly over states is different than on the coasts. I'm thinking the south, specifically, must have a different class system because of the civil war?

Although I love class reactions to class discussions... Like I said I first became "aware" of class in college, but it really hit home in my late 20s when I dated a stripper one summer and a hairstylist the next.

Friends would ask things like, "why are you with her"? "She's not your type". (you all know what my type is, I don't care about class) Cyril & I know the consequences of dating someone people consider "below" us. My friends girlfriends and wives would make the hairstylist uncomfortable. (too be honest only a few friends knew about the stripper the previous summer). I remember one night they made the hairstylist cry. They made her feel like shit, without my knowledge, and eventually it would break us up. It was so bad She started to tell me she "wasn't my type".

This situation made me remember that book I read, city of women, and the sociology that I took in 1988. (I kept all my texts from college for my library) Then I became obsessed with figuring out what these people meant by saying "She's not your type". Thus why I'm so versed with class. My parents (as bad as they were) instilled the classless society in me, which I now know to be a total myth.

Bottom line, ignore the class system at your peril. It's a 800lbs gorilla that isn't going anywhere!

Bystander
06-14-2009, 12:36 AM
have a headache from reading this thread. . .

Almost Jaded
06-14-2009, 03:06 AM
I am not shallow. I like strippers and find them to be truly fascinating. I have stated that several times and have been mocked by a few posters for saying those words if my memory serves me right.

Society we live in does not hold strippers in high esteem. People who do not approve of pole dancing profession range from middle class to upper class in terms of income.

What I am trying to say is that it is the social norm which will prevent me from dating a stripper not my own wishes. My own wishes are to see a woman in stripper shoes. And, as you can see they run contrary to what most people would call prudent.

[i]...and all the rest of his posts...

Way to contribute to what you openly call a problem rather than live your own life.

You and Commander and your ilk are the only reason the class issues mentioned exist at all, in fantasy or reality. You say we're ignoring the Gorilla, I say quit telling us to help you find this supposedly obvious beast; you took some bad Life Experience Drug and you're hallucinating it and the rest of the world is tired of looking every time you point. I know, I know - we need to "open our minds and SEE it, maaan - you're the blind ones maaaan, he's THERE maaan" - but I never did get eaten by the monsters my acid freak freinds told me I couldn't see, either. :rolleyes:

And about the empty life of milestones vs the implied alternative - wow. Nobody who ever made a difference in the world ever thought like that. Nobody who ever said they look back on their life with satisfaction thought like that. Kill yourself now, in all seriousness. Save yourself the misery you're setting yourself up for between now and when you eventually look back and off yourself anyway.

And people call me a realist and a conservative, LMAO...

commanderadama
06-14-2009, 08:25 AM
^^^^^
Jaded when have you actually dated a waitress, hairstylist, bartender or stripper and brought her to social gatherings with your peers? (I'm assuming your of higher means, if you're a blue collar worker then of course you don't know what we're talking about.)

Cyril
06-14-2009, 09:58 AM
Kill yourself now, in all seriousness. Save yourself the misery you're setting yourself up for between now and when you eventually look back and off yourself anyway.


We all have to pay the price to achieve our goals. Sometimes the price can be an empty life. But that is just life.

There are two types of issues we are mixing up here - class issue and moral issue.

People who have problems with strippers are not necessarily rich people. There are plenty of middle class people who have problems with the profession of stripping based on moral grounds.

The issue of not saying hello to janitors and drivers is purely a class based issue. Some of these janitors may have more money than the manager who thinks he is better than the janitor, especially if the said janitor is the owner of the cleaning business. But regardless of his bank account, he will not be respected once he enters the building in the cleaning uniform. His existence will not be acknowledged. This is a fact not a fantasy and it can be verified by visiting any notable corporate building.

princessjas
06-14-2009, 10:50 AM
^^^^^
Jaded when have you actually dated a waitress, hairstylist, bartender or stripper and brought her to social gatherings with your peers? (I'm assuming your of higher means, if you're a blue collar worker then of course you don't know what we're talking about.)

I just have to ask....Do you see strippers as people who will show up at a social gathering wearing Walmart fashions and announcing their profession in a drunken manner?

I have dated many upper class men, and attended social gatherings with them. Turned down several proposals actually. I am well educated, well spoken and of course wear designer clothing to all upscale events. If ask about my profession, of course I would mention my day job (lab researcher to accounting, I switched professions).

Many long-term dancers are exactly like me. The trashy, drunken girls don't tend to have a very long shelf-life. Their lifestyle really takes a toll on their appearance fairly quickly.

mediocrity
06-14-2009, 11:05 AM
I just have to ask....Do you see strippers as people who will show up at a social gathering wearing Walmart fashions and announcing their profession in a drunken manner?

I have dated many upper class men, and attended social gatherings with them. Turned down several proposals actually. I am well educated, well spoken and of course wear designer clothing to all upscale events. If ask about my profession, of course I would mention my day job (lab researcher to accounting, I switched professions).

Many long-term dancers are exactly like me. The trashy, drunken girls don't tend to have a very long shelf-life. Their lifestyle really takes a toll on their appearance fairly quickly.

Agreed. My current SO is of higher means, though he is pretty kicked back about it. He definitely does not flaunt his money. But I go out with him and his peers all the time, and none of them have ever seen me as inferior. They all know I am in school to pursue an amazing career that I am 100% in love with; not some Walmart drunk as princessjas so eloquently said.

Also you know, there is nothing attractive about a show off.

commanderadama
06-14-2009, 11:53 AM
Agreed. My current SO is of higher means, though he is pretty kicked back about it. He definitely does not flaunt his money. But I go out with him and his peers all the time, and none of them have ever seen me as inferior. They all know I am in school to pursue an amazing career that I am 100% in love with; not some Walmart drunk as princessjas so eloquently said.

Also you know, there is nothing attractive about a show off.

Interesting... How do the girl friends and wives receive you? His relatives? And what do they talk with you about? This is how they convinced the hairstylist she wasn't "my type". They projected a general feeling of unwelcome towards her. (You're not one of us, why are you here... kinda vibe.)

Like I've said before, I shown interest in a waitress before and had a peer ask me "would you date a waitress" like she was another species. And with the stripper they would say things like "you're not serious about her" and the like. Appears there are great differences in the cultures of the fly over states, which of course interests me. 8)

Perhaps that's how Carl Rove got all those red staters to vote against their self interest and make us coasters silly rich.

Earl_the_Pearl
06-14-2009, 01:34 PM
The trashy, drunken girls don't tend to have a very long shelf-life. Their lifestyle really takes a toll on their appearance fairly quickly.
Mmmmmm, trashy, drunken girls. A thrifty old man's oasis.

Earl_the_Pearl
06-14-2009, 01:39 PM
not some Walmart drunk as princessjas so eloquently said.

Isn't that a classist remark?

mediocrity
06-14-2009, 03:02 PM
Interesting... How do the girl friends and wives receive you? His relatives? And what do they talk with you about? This is how they convinced the hairstylist she wasn't "my type". They projected a general feeling of unwelcome towards her. (You're not one of us, why are you here... kinda vibe.)

Like I've said before, I shown interest in a waitress before and had a peer ask me "would you date a waitress" like she was another species. And with the stripper they would say things like "you're not serious about her" and the like. Appears there are great differences in the cultures of the fly over states, which of course interests me. 8)

Perhaps that's how Carl Rove got all those red staters to vote against their self interest and make us coasters silly rich.

I'm going to try and answer you without divulging too much info because I am one of the more private posters on here.

I met his friends on St Patrick's Day of this year and they were nothing but kind to me. One of is college friends even told me "Anyone that is cool with M, is cool with me, for sure." The girls were all super cool. We left the boys to go dance, smoke on the steps outside, it was actually really great.

They are all substantially older than I (13+ yrs) but a few of them have the occupation I am trying to go into. So, we talked about that, they gave me pointers on how to get ahead. But I mean, it was all completely normal conversation. Everyone was social with everyone.

What I love about his friends is they aren't stuck up stereotypes. They're all wealthy, but we drank pitchers of green beer and did tequila shots. We debated what was the greatest horror movie of all time. No one was dressed up or wearing expensive jewelry. I totally did not feel outcasted or different from anyone else at the table. I suppose it is because I am also very well travelled and had adventurous, well to-do parents. I went to good schools and grew up in nice neighbourhoods. We weren't millionaires, but I would definitey say very upper middle class. I went into dancing as a rebellion, not because I had to.

Sometimes I lament to M that I can't give back to him what he gives to me. I mean I can't blow $700 on dinner; I'm a student and I'm paying for my school with very little financial aid. But he always says to me "Babe, I'm 13 years older than you. When I was your age, I was in the same boat. You'll get there. In the meantime, I don't mind at all."

M however, is self made and I think that makes a difference. He did his time working his ass off to make his money. The flashiest thing he has is his car really. And that is one of the main qualities I adore about him: he's hard working, honest, doesn't have a sense of entitlement and really doesn't care what people think.

And before you ask, yes, his income and worth is in the seven figures, quite a few times over.

JayATee
06-14-2009, 03:14 PM
I cannot take blame for something I did not create. The society is the way it is. You have to play by the rule or else you are out of the game. It is that simple.

I would be shallow if I approved of those actions. I do not approve of those actions. Therefore, you cannot call me shallow.

You yourself said you behave in that manner. I can call you shallow for that. If you don't approve of them, why do you continue to act in that way? You can't take blame for society, you can take the blame for your own actions. See my last post.

Cyril
06-14-2009, 03:16 PM
The underlying issue at hand is a complex one. How people view strippers has more to do with their value system than their wealth. Majority of people (both in middle class and upper class) think stripping is immoral. At least, that is the impression I have got. People who have belonged to a wealthy family for generations have a different societal outlook than the ones who just made it. Then we have yet another group, which just tries to fit in till they are strong enough to show their independent value system.

Cyril
06-14-2009, 03:25 PM
You yourself said you behave in that manner. I can call you shallow for that. If you don't approve of them, why do you continue to act in that way? You can't take blame for society, you can take the blame for your own actions. See my last post.

Yes, I have compromised on my value system. I said that in the beginning.

mediocrity
06-14-2009, 03:31 PM
The underlying issue at hand is a complex one. How people view strippers has more to do with their value system than their wealth. Majority of people (both in middle class and upper class) think stripping is immoral. At least, that is the impression I have got. People who have belonged to a wealthy family for generations have a different societal outlook than the ones who just made it. Then we have yet another group, which just tries to fit in till they are strong enough to show their independent value system.

Hate to say it, but I agree. I actually mentioned that in my above post about my SO. He is self-made, I think that makes a huge difference.

Cyril
06-14-2009, 03:36 PM
Hate to say it, but I agree. I actually mentioned that in my above post about my SO. He is self-made, I think that makes a huge difference.

And, self made people have to make some compromises in the beginning unless they made their wealth through winning a lottery or playing some major league sports or something similar.

(I am not saying your SO made compromises. I am just saying that many of the self made people make compromises to fit in.)

Earl_the_Pearl
06-14-2009, 04:17 PM
But he always says to me "Babe, I'm 13 years older than you.
Many men in that position will be in for a rough ride. First; "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life never make a pretty women your wife". Second when you grow up you will ask yourself; "what am I doing with this old man".

JayATee
06-14-2009, 04:33 PM
Yes, I have compromised on my value system. I said that in the beginning.

Then stop telling me you aren't what you in fact are, shallow.

My entire point was that your so called value system is ridiculous and flawed.


He is in for one rough ride. First; "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life never make a pretty women your wife". Second when you grow up you will ask yourself; "what am I doing with this old man".

I'm not even bothering to touch the first quote but 13 yrs older constitutes an old man? LoL. You're sad. Truly sad. ::)

mediocrity
06-14-2009, 04:36 PM
He is in for one rough ride. First; "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life never make a pretty women your wife". Second when you grow up you will ask yourself; "what am I doing with this old man".

You know, if this were in real life I would punch you in your fucking face. How DARE you insinuate anything about my relationship when you don't know me? Fuck you. Seriously. This is the shit I get for trying to share experiences and be insightful.

Stop fucking e-terrorizing me.

JayATee
06-14-2009, 04:40 PM
^He's being the only thing he knows how to be.... pathetic.

mediocrity
06-14-2009, 04:43 PM
^He's being the only thing he knows how to be.... pathetic.

That and a pitiful, snivelling old man likely whom is ugly with a beer gut, who has to pay for sex in order to get it, and gets his jollies by being an assface to happy people.

Earl_the_Pearl
06-14-2009, 04:54 PM
I'm not even bothering to touch the first quote but 13 yrs older constitutes an old man?

Well it depends; if a women of 19 marries a man 32 when she gets in her mid twenties she will wonder what she has missed.

Earl_the_Pearl
06-14-2009, 04:56 PM
How DARE you insinuate anything about my relationship when you don't know me?
Point taken; correction made.

mediocrity
06-14-2009, 05:03 PM
Well it depends; if a women of 19 marries a man 32 when she gets in her mid twenties she will wonder what she has missed.

Well for the record, we are 26 and 39.

Thank you for your correction.

Otoki
06-14-2009, 05:05 PM
Why. Is. This. Thread. Still. Alive.

Cyril
06-14-2009, 05:42 PM
Then stop telling me you aren't what you in fact are, shallow.

My entire point was that your so called value system is ridiculous and flawed.



::)

My value system which was an excellent system got compromised later on due to societal pressure. However, I am not a shallow man. But you obviously disagree. So, we have to agree to disagree and move on.

Earl_the_Pearl
06-14-2009, 05:45 PM
My value system which was an excellent system got compromised later on due to societal pressure. However, I am not a shallow man. But you obviously disagree. So, we have to agree to disagree and move on.

Move on; should I go out and play?