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Cyril
06-14-2009, 06:02 PM
Move on; should I go out and play?
It did not make any sense to me. Hopefully, it made some sense to JayATee and she will answer that in a cordial manner.
jack0177057
06-15-2009, 10:06 AM
Like I said I first became "aware" of class in college, but it really hit home in my late 20s when I dated a stripper one summer and a hairstylist the next.
Friends would ask things like, "why are you with her"? "She's not your type". (you all know what my type is, I don't care about class) Cyril & I know the consequences of dating someone people consider "below" us. My friends girlfriends and wives would make the hairstylist uncomfortable. (too be honest only a few friends knew about the stripper the previous summer). I remember one night they made the hairstylist cry. They made her feel like shit, without my knowledge, and eventually it would break us up. It was so bad She started to tell me she "wasn't my type".
This situation made me remember that book I read, city of women, and the sociology that I took in 1988. (I kept all my texts from college for my library) Then I became obsessed with figuring out what these people meant by saying "She's not your type".
It's not all about class, commanderadama. You're too obsessed with class and there are so many other variables.
My ex-wife was from a wealty and distinguished family and she was well educated and sophisticated, but she wanted to be a stay-at-home wife/mom. At law student functions, she was always asked by the female law student, "What do you do?" And when she told them, the female law students would always act surprised and ask obnoxious questions like, "Don't you get bored? Don't you have any career ambitions?" She had a better upbrining and was more sophisticated and travelled than any of those stupid girls, but they were judging her as less because of her "career" choice. People are always trying to size each other up, and will peg other people below them, if at all possible.
Lawyers, doctors and CEOs tend to be very snobbish and look down on people with other careers. This is not about class (many lawyers grew up poor), but about education, career and legal/political power.
Religious freaks and conservatives think this country and everyone in it is going to hell in a handbasket and only a few will be saved. They will not associate with you, unless you are also seeking salvation.
Liberal professors look down on everyone, except their disciple students... This contempt for the masses is not based on class, but on a belief that they are brilliant and intellectually enlightened and everyone else is an idiot.
Christians and conservatives will look down on liberals and vice versa. If you have conservative christian friends who think abortion is homicide, do not bring your liberal feminist Jewish pro-choice girlfriend to their party...
In college, I led a double life - academically, I was an honors student in the "Honors College" (a college within a college - with very distinguished nationally recognized professors). However, I was also a frat boy in a fraternity of mostly underachieving unmotivated immature party boys. If I brought a sorrority party girl that I met in a frat party to meet my group of friends from the Honor College or to a social at the Honor College, she would not be able to keep up with the conversation. (Sorrority girls talk about sorrority stuff, not about 20th century post-structuralism in French literature.) On the other hand, if I brought a girl from the Honor College to a frat party, she wouldn't do very well either, as our parties were VERY wild, included copious amounts drugs, alcohol and raunchy activities and the only "intellectual" discussions we had centered around engineering the perfect bong.
You might deduce that the Honors College was full of "upperclass" people and that my frat brothers were mostly low-class,... but, you'd be dead wrong! A lot of Honors College students were smart high-achievers from humble backgrounds on full scholarships... and nearly all of the party frat boys in my fraternity were from very affluent "upper class" families.
Also in your hairstylist and stripper example - you have to be able to have a conversation with the person you're dating. I wouldn't have much to talk about with a hairstylist because she is unlikely to be able to keep up with me in a conversation about art, culture, places I've been, law or politics. With a dancer, it depends... she might be a college student, grad student, college-grad, professional, artist, entrepeneur or professional, who is temporarily dancing because of the big income she can make as a dancer.
Almost Jaded
06-15-2009, 10:40 AM
Not only have I had stripper GF's attend family functions, but they've been with me to functions where CEO's and various ambassadors were in high attendance, where the discussion centered around high level international behind the scenes politics, et cetera, ad nasuam, lol. And there were no issues. Smart people know when to shut up, or when to contribute. I date smart girls, classy girls. If things were over their head (not because of "class", but because it wasn't their bag) they, like I or anyone else with a brain between their ears, listened.
Your hairstylist freind felt inferior because she LET them make her feel that way. I've said before - it's a personal thing. Believe me when I say that my most recent ex could make a Kennedy feel inferior if she unleashed that tongue in anger, and believe me when I say that the Sultan of Brunei would be damned hard pressed to make her feel inferior. Same goes for just about any girl I'm going to be in a LTR with.
Business calls, more to come. I don't think this needs to be shut down; it's kinda fun in a really annoying way, lol.
JayATee
06-15-2009, 10:52 AM
Well it depends; if a women of 19 marries a man 32 when she gets in her mid twenties she will wonder what she has missed.
Then make the distinction and don't generalize your statements.
It did not make any sense to me. Hopefully, it made some sense to JayATee and she will answer that in a cordial manner.
It was your statement, how am I supposed to explain your statement?
Earl_the_Pearl
06-15-2009, 01:27 PM
- you have to be able to have a conversation with the person you're dating.
What would I have to talk about with a women 30 years younger then I? I'm not with her to talk anyway.
Earl_the_Pearl
06-15-2009, 01:43 PM
Then make the distinction and don't generalize your statements.
OK yes that was my experience. 14 years is a big difference from 19 to 33; less so 49 to 63. "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life never make a pretty women your wife" holds for all ages.
JayATee
06-15-2009, 01:47 PM
OK yes that was my experience. 14 years is a big difference from 19 to 33; less so 49 to 63. "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life never make a pretty women your wife" holds for all ages.
/sigh.
No, it holds true for you. My guess is that it's bc you couldn't keep up with a young pretty wife even if you wanted to, so you're right, you should stick to your own age group and only date ugly women bc than you can spare yourself the embarassment of coming face to face with the sad reality of what you really are.
Earl_the_Pearl
06-15-2009, 02:15 PM
/sigh.
No, it holds true for you. My guess is that it's bc you couldn't keep up with a young pretty wife even if you wanted to, so you're right, you should stick to your own age group and only date ugly women bc than you can spare yourself the embarassment of coming face to face with the sad reality of what you really are.
For the record she was not a dancer. She became much more attractive after $10,000 worth of braces. As long as she was pregnant or nursing she was fine; yes she had shoes. In fact I taught her to drive.
She started working when she was almost 30, her decision. She became an x-ray technician in a dentist's office. She married the dentist. There is much truth in "keep them bare foot and pregnant; they are happier that way.
Golden_Rule
06-15-2009, 04:05 PM
/sigh.
No, it holds true for you. My guess is that it's bc you couldn't keep up with a young pretty wife even if you wanted to, so you're right, you should stick to your own age group and only date ugly women bc than you can spare yourself the embarassment of coming face to face with the sad reality of what you really are.
Wow!
If I was such a person who believed I could tell something about folks from the nature of the posts they make on boards such as these I would suggest to you that your response above is rather telling.
Isn't it a good thing that I am not such a person. :)
P.S.: Apologies. You caught me on a day that I am even more tongue in cheek than usual and that makes it truly hard to let such a biting comment go by without being a wise ass. :) [You did have it coming though after beating up on someone you don't even know as badly as you did above.
In retrospect Earl appears [I said appears] to be suggesting that he had a long standing relationship [19-early 30's] with a young woman who he paid a significant amount of money to help her raise her dental health and self-esteem, and when push came to shove she ran off with her boss. How would you have commented if related experience was about a MAN who ran off with her secretary, leaving the woman he had been in a relationship with for over a decade? Sauce for the goose and all...
Shame on you for having an "I am lacking compassion" day and sharing it with the rest of us :D. ]
commanderadama
06-15-2009, 04:10 PM
Well for the record, we are 26 and 39.
Thank you for your correction.
Interesting, I'm also interested in a 26 year old, perhaps it's a good age. She is from the Ghetto though, has 2 pit bulls, that she adores... my HOA doesn't allow Pit Bulls not even for visits. :(
Jack, thanks for that post, it was actually informative. But things are different in TX and the other fly over states than it is on the coasts. But I do understand your point.
I'm not obsessed with class, I'm just very aware of it. And I don't like women who want to be stay at home moms or in others words total liabilities, which is why I'm only interested in the self sufficient types and most of them are in the lower "classes".
Earl_the_Pearl
06-15-2009, 04:16 PM
HOA
I could not live with a home owner association. I have enough trouble just with the town; damn what is wrong with a few cars up on blocks anyway. /:O
mediocrity
06-15-2009, 05:08 PM
For the record she was not a dancer. She became much more attractive after $10,000 worth of braces. As long as she was pregnant or nursing she was fine; yes she had shoes. In fact I taught her to drive.
She started working when she was almost 30, her decision. She became an x-ray technician in a dentist's office. She married the dentist. There is much truth in "keep them bare foot and pregnant; they are happier that way.
Not everyone has a paralell experience to yours Earl. Nor do they subscribe to your assinine barefoot and pregnant philosophy.
Golden_Rule
06-15-2009, 05:12 PM
Not everyone has a paralell experience to yours Earl. Nor do they subscribe to your assinine barefoot and pregnant philosophy.
Do you really think he means that [in which case I would say I disagree with that quite a bit] or is he just responding to 'after the fact' feelings of being behind the eight-ball coming out of that relationship?
Almost Jaded
06-15-2009, 09:58 PM
Given his past posts, I shudder to try and decide, lol.
JayATee
06-15-2009, 11:22 PM
Wow!
If I was such a person who believed I could tell something about folks from the nature of the posts they make on boards such as these I would suggest to you that your response above is rather telling.
Isn't it a good thing that I am not such a person. :)
P.S.: Apologies. You caught me on a day that I am even more tongue in cheek than usual and that makes it truly hard to let such a biting comment go by without being a wise ass. :) [You did have it coming though after beating up on someone you don't even know as badly as you did above.
In retrospect Earl appears [I said appears] to be suggesting that he had a long standing relationship [19-early 30's] with a young woman who he paid a significant amount of money to help her raise her dental health and self-esteem, and when push came to shove she ran off with her boss. How would you have commented if related experience was about a MAN who ran off with her secretary, leaving the woman he had been in a relationship with for over a decade? Sauce for the goose and all...
Shame on you for having an "I am lacking compassion" day and sharing it with the rest of us :D. ]
Excuse me?? He doesn't "beat" the dancers on this board up enough? Go back and read ANY ONE of his posts. At some point it's time to let go. Not to mention that just because it happened to him doesn't mean that every single one of us is like that and quite frankly I am completely sick of this attitude from some of the men on this board. I have a right to my feelings same as he has a right to post this ridiculous non sensical bull shit, and you know what? I'll call him out every single time. If you have a problem with it, I guess it's too damn bad. I have a problem with all the women hating posts regardless of the topic. ::)
Do you really think he means that [in which case I would say I disagree with that quite a bit] or is he just responding to 'after the fact' feelings of being behind the eight-ball coming out of that relationship?
Yah, I think he really feels like that, and if he doesn't than he's doing nothing but trying to get a rise out of ppl in which case he deserves to be called out for that too.
jack0177057
06-16-2009, 09:06 AM
Jack, thanks for that post, it was actually informative. But things are different in TX and the other fly over states than it is on the coasts. But I do understand your point.
I was talking mostly about NY... I grew up in NYC and went to college in Long Island. I also spent many summers in Mass. and winters skiing in Maine (visiting my rich fraternity brothers.) I didn't come to TX, until after graduating college to go on to law school, and after law school graduation, I've lived in Dallas and Houston, which are both sophisticated and cosmopolitan cities,... ever heard of them?... "energy capital of the world", M.D. Anderson or NASA?
Arrogance exists in both coasts, and also, in between... "Class" is just one tool of the arrogant... There is also career, job, education, social standing, attractiveness, race, ethnicity, religion, politics.... etc.
You never told me what prep school and college you went to. I've said a lot about myself, you could at least disclose that...
Otoki
06-16-2009, 09:13 AM
I agree with the last part of JayATee's post. Either Earl really believes that, or he's being a troll. Either way, I don't understand why anyone finds that acceptable. This is supposed to be a stripper friendly site, but when people trot out ridiculous claims about how women are happier barefoot and pregnant, or that pretty women will make their partners unhappy, I don't get why others try to come to their defense. I think those remarks are reprehensible.
jack0177057
06-16-2009, 10:22 AM
What would I have to talk about with a women 30 years younger then I? I'm not with her to talk anyway.
Then you're talking about about a fuck-buddy, not a girlfriend.
jack0177057
06-16-2009, 10:56 AM
Excuse me?? He doesn't "beat" the dancers on this board up enough? Go back and read ANY ONE of his posts. At some point it's time to let go. Not to mention that just because it happened to him doesn't mean that every single one of us is like that and quite frankly I am completely sick of this attitude from some of the men on this board. I have a right to my feelings same as he has a right to post this ridiculous non sensical bull shit, and you know what? I'll call him out every single time. If you have a problem with it, I guess it's too damn bad. I have a problem with all the women hating posts regardless of the topic. ::)
JayATee -- You go girl, kick his ass...
Earl_the_Pearl -- (1) People "upgrade" all the time... Whether she is pretty or hideous, she might just leave you if a "better offer" comes around... specially, if she has kids and wants to find the best "provider" for her and her children. If you feel indignation that a pretty girl dumped you for another guy, imagine how much more indignant you'll be when a beast of a girl does the same. Of course, not all people are like that, just most. (2) You should not make very expensive GIFTS to a SO, instead, make her a LOAN (with executed loan documents). I've seen too many people get dumped after making expensive gifts. More often than not, it is the woman who buys the expensive gift or puts something on her credit card for a loser BF, and then gets dumped. You cannot undue a gift (except in rare cases of fraud). INSTEAD OF A GIFT, MAKE YOUR SO A LOAN, AND THEN FORGIVE THE LOAN AS TIME GOES ON...
Earl_the_Pearl
06-16-2009, 12:01 PM
JayATee -- You go girl, kick his ass...
Earl_the_Pearl -- (1) People "upgrade" all the time... Whether she is pretty or hideous, she might just leave you if a "better offer" comes around... specially, if she has kids and wants to find the best "provider" for her and her children.
We have children and she took their collage money in the divorce; I had saved enough to put them all through 4 years of collage. Remember as long as she was pregnant or nursing she was happy.
jack0177057
06-16-2009, 12:25 PM
We have children and she took there collage money in the divorce; I had saved enough to put them all through 4 years of collage. Remember as long as she was pregnant or nursing she was happy.
Oh, you married her... and they were your kids, too... Wow, that's aweful. Your divorce attorney was not able to put the college money aside for the kids?
Well anyway,... ugly women will do that kind of shit, too. I office next to a divorce attorney and her ugly clients are every bit as nasty as her pretty ones.
Earl_the_Pearl
06-16-2009, 12:31 PM
Oh, you married her...
Well anyway,... ugly women will do that kind of shit, too.
Of course I married her I was old school not a "baby's daddy".
With an ugly girl you can leave them in a corner and they will be there when you come back. :P
commanderadama
06-16-2009, 04:54 PM
You never told me what prep school and college you went to. I've said a lot about myself, you could at least disclose that...
Which is your prerogative, as is mine not too. What makes you want to Share so much? My books suggest your class. But alas it's probably because you have nothing else as no literature supports you.
For me, I'm interested in discussing class issues with anyone who cares to participate. I just went right for the 800lbs gorilla on this topic, you disagree. Also don't forget that I don't like you or most women on the planet, thus I don't want to share anything personal. (See that was a personal share, I doubt you or them liked to read it, but hey... you asked.)
Please note however that I respect you (and everyone else on this board) and your right to be who you are. 8)
jack0177057
06-16-2009, 05:36 PM
Which is your prerogative, as is mine not too. What makes you want to Share so much? My books suggest your class. But alas it's probably because you have nothing else as no literature supports you.
For me, I'm interested in discussing class issues with anyone who cares to participate. I just went right for the 800lbs gorilla on this topic, you disagree. Also don't forget that I don't like you or most women on the planet, thus I don't want to share anything personal. (See that was a personal share, I doubt you or them liked to read it, but hey... you asked.)
Commanderadama, far from being a discreet and "mysterious" sort of fellow, you LOVE to brag about the few things you can brag about:
A flashy car will get you lots of attention, exotic sports cars work well. If your from a small city a new Corvette will do, small town, new Mustang, big city you're gonna need a Porsche or better. I'm from a small city, my car's been hit on at the gas station, while BF is filling up his POS next to me, it's sad.
I go to Hed Kandi parties, mixed clubs (know what that means? haha, it's where the hottest my type girls are...) and upscale clubs which are usually mixed too. But I also "slum it", and feel comfortable with blue collar folks and I prefer women from that class. They just have a hard time dealing with my world as I don't do and am not interested in anything middle class. I have a library, I hate malls, Disneyland, Las Vegas and Hawaii. I won't eat at chains or buffets and my Favorite Vacation spots are Montreal, Nice, Monte Carlo, San Francisco & NYC.
I have friends and relatives who work in the fashion & entertainment industries who get me in to parties/events. I meet all sorts. I have never dated a model or even hit on one, I'm nowhere near that good looking or rich. LOL I can afford to go to Europe once a year and my friends and relatives hook me up. Montreux Jazz fest is the bomb, meet Artists every year. Quincy was simply awesome. (Oops name drop, my bad) :P
The fact that you love to brag about these superficial things,... but insist on remaining silent regarding something so much more substantial - your educational background - does not lead one to think that you are discreet, modest, or "mysterious",... but rather that you "plead the fifth" on this material issue... I don't think you would be holding back on me if your prep school was Andover and your college was Yale. I'll take your silence on this issue as an admission that you went to a public highschool and a fourth-tier university or community college... Any serious book on class in the U.S. would list prep school and ivy league education as one of the most fundamental indicator of "class", yet you've left this issue completely out of your discussions and "plead the fifth" on this question.
Golden_Rule
06-16-2009, 05:44 PM
With an ugly girl you can leave them in a corner and they will be there when you come back. :P
You know, I am preaching compassion for the rather bad whacking you took in a marriage where any woman flipping the situation around ought to feel compassion for you because they recognize it as the same situation they complain about when their heartless husbands run off with secretaries, etc, and you go and say the above and make me look foolish for championing your cause in this specific bit of business {LOL}... :)
Cyril
06-16-2009, 05:51 PM
I agree with Golden Rule. There is no need to attack the institution of womanhood or even dancers.
Earl_the_Pearl
06-16-2009, 06:15 PM
I agree with Golden Rule. There is no need to attack the institution of womanhood or even dancers.
I was stating a "personal point of view" about a particular type of women not all women and definitely not dancers.
In the words of the immortal Jimmy Soul;
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So from my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you
A pretty woman makes her husband look small
And very often causes his downfall
As soon as he marries her then she starts
To do the things that will break his hearthttp://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61HFYNQ5ZJL._SL500_AA240_.jpg
Cyril
06-16-2009, 08:51 PM
I think you have to change the attitude a bit. :)
Think like I do and the way I think is any woman who leaves me for another guy has to be the stupidest woman on the planet. This attitude has always helped me. It prevents me from being jealous and petty.
Nevertheless, I have sympathy for your situation.
commanderadama
06-16-2009, 09:20 PM
Commanderadama, far from being a discreet and "mysterious" sort of fellow, you LOVE to brag about the few things you can brag about:
Jack everything you know about me is non-specific. I don't live in a fly over state, I go to parties, I'm a "Scientist" who doesn't make 6 figures and I'm a misogynist, like most men when it comes right down to it. Yep I'd call that discreet. And you still haven't provided a single text that backs up your opinion. 8)
/end boring threadjack...
Almost Jaded
06-16-2009, 09:52 PM
You, claiming to end boring threadjack - that you and one other member essentially started/kept going. LMAO.
What really cracks me up is that you read whole books full of (supposedly) information, then pass judgment on people based on a few words written on a Vb board. As one who subscribes to the scientific theory (which I guess means reading a few books, lol), I would think you'd want more information before making a call.
What kind of scientest, BTW? I left school before finishing my doctorate in chemical physics with a minor in hard physics. I love the sciences and the people in them - when they're the real deal pursuing real research. The fact that that's as uncommon as it is is part of the reason I left.
lopaw
06-16-2009, 09:55 PM
...... and I'm a misogynist, like most men when it comes right down to it.
Well....since most women are misandrists as well, sounds like an even playing field to me. ::)
JayATee
06-17-2009, 01:29 AM
You know, I am preaching compassion for the rather bad whacking you took in a marriage where any woman flipping the situation around ought to feel compassion for you because they recognize it as the same situation they complain about when their heartless husbands run off with secretaries, etc, and you go and say the above and make me look foolish for championing your cause in this specific bit of business {LOL}... :)
Sorry but I'd have no more compassion for a woman that went on and on and on and on and on and on ad nauseum about a man that "done her wrong" and every man in the whole wide world is crap and no one should ever get married and certainly not marry or be with anyone younger or good looking, and whatever else she could come up with either.
jack0177057
06-17-2009, 08:06 AM
Jack everything you know about me is non-specific. I don't live in a fly over state, I go to parties, I'm a "Scientist" who doesn't make 6 figures and I'm a misogynist, like most men when it comes right down to it. Yep I'd call that discreet. And you still haven't provided a single text that backs up your opinion. 8) /end boring threadjack...
Not discreet, just selective in what you reveal about yourself -- "pleading the fifth" on the things that really matter to determine your class. I don't think you are trying to fool us, I think you are trying to fool yourself.
You rely on a book, which would be "heresay" in a court of law. You treat it like the Bible written by the God of class in America. Learning about "class" from a book is utterly preposterous. What is so hard to comprehend about "class" that you think you need a book to figure it out? A true "scientist" would be critical of this book, not worshiping it like it was the tablet on which the Ten Commandments was written.
Everyone in the U.S. is "middle class", unless you are extremely poor or extremely rich... that about sums it up... Nobody in the U.S. is born into "nobility" like the upper class in Europe. In the U.S., the best you can hope for is to be born into "money". In the U.S., it is ALL ABOUT MONEY because the U.S. is a capitalististic country and therefore, a "democracy" which is actually a plutocracy,... not an aristocracy or meritocracy.
Moreover, I believe you misinterpret the book as was pointed out to you earlier. "Class X" is not the same as "upper class", but rather a rejection of class altogether.
I don't think commanderadama is claiming any social standing. Perusing through the reviews on amazon, category "X", which the author most closely identified with (and was the least critical of), would be the class that insists on not being in a class. Kind of a catch-22,isn't it? Besides the dude picked his handle from freakin' Battlestar Galactica ferchrissakes! That's a sure sign of poor breeding. ;D
http://www.amazon.com/Class-Through-American-Status-System/product-reviews/0671792253/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
"Fussell mentions a class called "X" which is somewhat similar to bohemians. I think he thinks he is a part of this class and he likes this class because it is the category for people who are trying to escape the class jail. I thought it was a glorified description since escaping a class may just be an illusion and I think bohemians live on its margins of society as social outcasts. Bohos are often so idiosyncratic that can't get along with others in their category--so it's a lonely life."
"This is a pretty funny exercise in stereotyping, and Fussell's observations seem, for the most part, accurately drawn, but the last chapter on the Category X weakens the book by exposing the author's sympathies and, consequently, his shortsightedness. The type described in this chapter have not escaped the status system - in fact, they do care if you notice the odd sentiment expressed on their T-shirt or their idiosyncratic way of decorating the living room, and they do hope you find it novel that they like to watch corny old sitcoms, although they will act nonplussed if you actually comment on these things. (You are to assume they would never engage in so middle-class an endeavor as seeking approval from others. Of course they do seek approval from others, just not the same 'others' their middle-class counterparts seek approval from.) This type is especially common in academia - in fact it is probably the predominant 'class' group in that field, and it seems that Fussell is confusing the kind of status seeking peculiar to grad students, professors, and their ilk with a rejection of status seeking altogether. This leads the reader to infer that Fussell can turn his sharp wit on every group except the one to which he feels most closely aligned, and that's a shame, because the Category X group and their pretensions deserve to be mocked as vigorously as any other."
Everything I've said about "class" is based on my real-life experiences: going to a NY college with rich "upper class" people, studying abroad at Oxford University (arguably, the most prestigious and elite university in the world) with European aristocrats, going to a law school with rich "upper class" people, traveling, and now working in a big-city law firm that caters to rich "upper class" clients.
commanderadama
06-17-2009, 04:33 PM
^^^^
I don't believe a word of it Jack, I think you're a law clerk. I've been to TX, it's very LOW rent. Oxford, no way. I don't find you credible, there is no way to verify, and like I said before I don't care. I'm not interested in sharing anything other than ideas with you. I'm not impressed with your claimed accomplishments, so please stop trying. You have provided no text to back up your point of view, hell I'd settle for a Wikipedia article at this point but you provide nothing but nonsense, thus I see no point in continuing, I never said I was upper class, I said I was Class X and you're middle class all the way, obsessed with convincing someone you're "accomplished". As Payne says in her book people like you have a personality based on Achievement and consider education as essential for climbing "success ladder" and making money. She says your driving force is Work and achievement, Which I think is obvious in your posts.
You remind me of a braggart who tempted us down to TX for floor seats for the last game of the NBA finals in 2003 (Met him at game 5, that I also went to for free). So we fly down and drive out to his home in this place called the Dominion, an incredibly tacky gated community outside San Antonio. What was super tacky was the gated community within the gated community, I mean come on! Anyhow, he just went on and on about his this and that like you do and guess what, not a book in the place, no unique art, nothing unique or genuine. TVs were in EVERY ROOM, even the bathrooms. It was sad, but the game was fun as was the after party, and he gave us plenty of laughs for years to come. This is where I realized that gated communities actually lock you in, not keep people out.
Got any stories like that Jack?
jack0177057
06-17-2009, 05:34 PM
^^^^
I don't believe a word of it Jack, I think you're a law clerk. I've been to TX, it's very LOW rent. Oxford, no way. I don't find you credible, there is no way to verify, and like I said before I don't care. I'm not interested in sharing anything other than ideas with you. I'm not impressed with your claimed accomplishments, so please stop trying. You have provided no text to back up your point of view, hell I'd settle for a Wikipedia article at this point but you provide nothing but nonsense, thus I see no point in continuing, I never said I was upper class, I said I was Class X and you're middle class all the way, obsessed with convincing someone you're "accomplished". As Payne says in her book people like you have a personality based on Achievement and consider education as essential for climbing "success ladder" and making money. She says your driving force is Work and achievement, Which I think is obvious in your posts.
I'm not trying to impress you, I'm trying to show you that my empirical source of information is more reliable than that cheesy book you keep referring to. You quote that book as if it were the Holy Scriptures, which is really comical to everyone. You don't believe I went to Oxford, and that is actually flattering to me, because I did...
So, I'm the braggart? I'm attempting to impress YOU? I've always said I'm middle class... You're the dude pointing fingers at everyone on this thread and informing them that they are middle class, like it were some of venereal disease they didn't know they had... You think you're better because... you have a "library", a Corvette, you fly to Europe once a year, go to "Hed Kandi Parties" and visit museums. You think that makes you better than "middle class"... but you're just being plain silly... (I can anticipate your response to this, you will say - "I did not say I was better, just different".)
As far as your TX pal, I don't know who you associate with... All the people I associate with (lawyers and other professionals) have dens and home offices full of books and plenty of art in their homes... In addition to all my law books in my den/home office, I have a spare room in my house which is full of books and two armchairs, but I don't pretentiously call it my "library". I have a formal dining room with an antique dining room set and art on the walls,... I guess I should call that my "gallery" or "museum". LOL...
The contempt for the middle class originates with Karl Marx, who was proven to be a monumental idiot. Aristotle, on the other hand, is an undisputed intellectual heavyweight for all times. He praises the middle class in the Politics:
Now in all states there are three elements: one class is very rich, another very poor, and a third in a mean. It is admitted that moderation and the mean are best, and therefore it will clearly be best to possess the gifts of fortune in moderation; for in that condition of life men are most ready to follow rational principle. But he who greatly excels in beauty, strength, birth, or wealth, or on the other hand who is very poor, or very weak, or very much disgraced, finds it difficult to follow rational principle. Of these two the one sort grow into violent and great criminals, the others into rogues and petty rascals. And two sorts of offenses correspond to them, the one committed from violence, the other from roguery. Again, the middle class is least likely to shrink from rule, or to be over-ambitious for it; both of which are injuries to the state. Again, those who have too much of the goods of fortune, strength, wealth, friends, and the like, are neither willing nor able to submit to authority. The evil begins at home; for when they are boys, by reason of the luxury in which they are brought up, they never learn, even at school, the habit of obedience. On the other hand, the very poor, who are in the opposite extreme, are too degraded. So that the one class cannot obey, and can only rule despotically; the other knows not how to command and must be ruled like slaves. Thus arises a city, not of freemen, but of masters and slaves, the one despising, the other envying; and nothing can be more fatal to friendship and good fellowship in states than this: for good fellowship springs from friendship; when men are at enmity with one another, they would rather not even share the same path. But a city ought to be composed, as far as possible, of equals and similars; and these are generally the middle classes. Wherefore the city which is composed of middle-class citizens is necessarily best constituted in respect of the elements of which we say the fabric of the state naturally consists. And this is the class of citizens which is most secure in a state, for they do not, like the poor, covet their neighbors' goods; nor do others covet theirs, as the poor covet the goods of the rich; and as they neither plot against others, nor are themselves plotted against, they pass through life safely. Wisely then did Phocylides pray- 'Many things are best in the mean; I desire to be of a middle condition in my city.'
Thus it is manifest that the best political community is formed by citizens of the middle class, and that those states are likely to be well-administered in which the middle class is large, and stronger if possible than both the other classes, or at any rate than either singly; for the addition of the middle class turns the scale, and prevents either of the extremes from being dominant. Great then is the good fortune of a state in which the citizens have a moderate and sufficient property; for where some possess much, and the others nothing, there may arise an extreme democracy, or a pure oligarchy; or a tyranny may grow out of either extreme- either out of the most rampant democracy, or out of an oligarchy; but it is not so likely to arise out of the middle constitutions and those akin to them. I will explain the reason of this hereafter, when I speak of the revolutions of states. The mean condition of states is clearly best, for no other is free from faction; and where the middle class is large, there are least likely to be factions and dissensions. For a similar reason large states are less liable to faction than small ones, because in them the middle class is large; whereas in small states it is easy to divide all the citizens into two classes who are either rich or poor, and to leave nothing in the middle. And democracies are safer and more permanent than oligarchies, because they have a middle class which is more numerous and has a greater share in the government; for when there is no middle class, and the poor greatly exceed in number, troubles arise, and the state soon comes to an end. A proof of the superiority of the middle dass is that the best legislators have been of a middle condition; for example, Solon, as his own verses testify; and Lycurgus, for he was not a king; and Charondas, and almost all legislators.
Earl_the_Pearl
06-17-2009, 10:36 PM
Nevertheless, I have sympathy for your situation.
Have sympathy for all the lonely old women who will never find a husband; have sympathy for my current GF who wants to get married. It will never happen.
Almost Jaded
06-18-2009, 01:22 AM
Jack is right on the money.
You quote books written by who knows who who did who knows what research to reach a conclusion that amounts to nothing more than an opinion, and put others down for posting real world observation because you THINK - mid you, you know very little or nothing about anybody here - that they're observations are less valid than yours; despite the fact that yours are clearly tainted by the niews of the aforementioned "writers".
You are an academic, not a scientist; and a mediocre academic at that. I bet that throughout whatever school you went through, your opinions followed each and every professor you had, LMAO. I know your type ALL too well.
mediocrity
06-18-2009, 10:48 AM
Have sympathy for all the lonely old women who will never find a husband; have sympathy for my current GF who wants to get married. It will never happen.
I have sympathy for anyone who dates you, honestly.
jack0177057
06-18-2009, 01:43 PM
In short: yes I can. Love isn't possession.
No, its compromise... If I embark on a serious LTR with a women, I'm going to give up a lot of things I like to do in order to make her happy and show her my respect, love, honor, loyalty and commitment. If I marry her, I'm also giving her half of my income (i.e., $75K/yr) under community property law... Likewise, I expect her to make some adjustments to show her respect, love, honor, loyalty and commitment to me.
I won't stick my dick in every girl that comes along (even though that would give me a lot of pleasure), if I'm in a LTR, and I'd ask that she not grind every dick that comes along (even though that would give her a lot of $$$)... I don't have anything against dancing per se (I think dancers are amazing) and I would date a dancer... But to transition into a LTR with her, she would have to stop grinding guys. (No-contact or very light-contact dancing would be okay.)... Then, to transition into a marriage, she would have to be transitioning into another career.
I know I will ruffle some feathers here, but I think that guys that approve of their LTR girl grinding on other guys fall into one of three categories: (1) cuckold fetishists, who actually get turned on by seeing their girl with other guys, (2) swingers, who are into the wife/GF-swapping lifestyle or (3) guys with low self-esteem who are probably being supported by their dancer GF/wife. If you think your guy is so "special" because he puts up with it, ask yourself who is paying all the bills.
JayATee
06-18-2009, 01:54 PM
No, its compromise... If I embark on a serious LTR with a women, I'm going to give up a lot of things I like to do in order to make her happy and show her my respect, love, honor, loyalty and commitment. If I marry her, I'm also giving her half of my income (i.e., $75K/yr) under community property law... Likewise, I expect her to make some adjustments to show her respect, love, honor, loyalty and commitment to me.
I won't stick my dick in every girl that comes along (even though that would give me a lot of pleasure), if I'm in a LTR, and I'd ask that she not grind every dick that comes along (even though that would give her a lot of $$$)... I don't have anything against dancing per se (I think dancers are amazing) and I would date a dancer... But to transition into a LTR with her, she would have to stop grinding guys. (No-contact or very light-contact dancing would be okay.)... Then, to transition into a marriage, she would have to be transitioning into another career.
I know I will ruffle some feathers here, but I think that guys that approve of their LTR girl grinding on other guys fall into one of three categories: (1) cuckold fetishists, who actually get turned on by seeing their girl with other guys, (2) swingers, who are into the wife/GF-swapping lifestyle or (3) guys with low self-esteem who are probably being supported by their dancer GF/wife. If you think your guy is so "special" because he puts up with it, ask yourself who is paying all the bills.
You once again astound me with your stupidity.
hockeybobby
06-18-2009, 01:59 PM
How about: 4) regular guys who accept people as they are, don't feel the need to control people, and don't obsess about scary bad shit that might happen.
verfolgung
06-18-2009, 02:03 PM
You once again astound me with your stupidity.
Really JayATee? The more I hung around SC's the less I was surprised at how stupid people could be. Heh.
I think Enstein must have hung around SC's too, or at least whatever was his contemporary equivalent. ;) ...
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
- Albert Einstein
jack0177057
06-18-2009, 02:05 PM
You once again astound me with your stupidity.
I don't mean to offend anyone... and I don't know why you take things personally...
You are transitioning to another career,... are you not?
I think dancers are amazing... I would date a dancer and not be a prick about it... All I'm saying is she would have to follow the same path YOU are following in order to contemplate marriage...
JayATee
06-18-2009, 02:07 PM
Really JayATee? The more I hung around SC's the less I was surprised at how stupid people could be.
I think Einstein must have hung around SC's too, or at least what was equivalent in his day. ...
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
- Albert Einstein
I know. It usually takes a lot to suprise me when it comes to human behavior. People are generally pretty stupid, and I know this and accept it, so I don't know why every single one of his posts seems to catch me by surprise. I'm completely and totally amazed by it. Truly. Maybe it's more that I'm amazed that he really believes the crap he's spewing. There seems to be a genuineness to it.
JayATee
06-18-2009, 02:11 PM
I don't mean to offend anyone... and I don't know why you take things personally...
You are transitioning to another career,... are you not?
I think dancers are amazing... I would date a dancer and not be a prick about it... All I'm saying is she would have to follow the same path YOU are following in order to contemplate marriage...
My transition to another career has nothing to do with anything, and I'm not taking anything personally.
You would date a dancer because you have an obsession with dancers, that's got nothing to do with anything either.
If I could dance the rest of my life, and if that's what I wanted to do my husband wouldn't have any issue with it at all. And guess what, he doesn't fit into your stupid little categories either, and OMG! he married me!
You're being stupid, and apparently nothing anyone says at all will make you conscious of it.
verfolgung
06-18-2009, 02:20 PM
^^^ The saddest truth is that Jack is not alone in thinking the way he does.
jack0177057
06-18-2009, 02:22 PM
You're being stupid, and apparently nothing anyone says at all will make you conscious of it.
Having different values or opinions make me "stupid"? The question posed by the OP was not a true/false question nor did it seek an analysis of an academic subject... It sought opinions... and I am entitled to mine, regardless how "stupid" it seems to those who disagree with it.
verfolgung
06-18-2009, 02:24 PM
^^^ Exactly. You are entitled to your opinion, just Dottie was entitled to hers, and JayATee is entitled to think that your opinion is "stupid" without having to be accused of taking things too personally.
Isn't America great!
jack0177057
06-18-2009, 02:26 PM
If I could dance the rest of my life, and if that's what I wanted to do my husband wouldn't have any issue with it at all. And guess what, he doesn't fit into your stupid little categories either, and OMG! he married me!
JayATee, I totally respect you and your husband...
It's never bothered him at all? How much contact is involved in your dances?
jack0177057
06-18-2009, 02:27 PM
^^^ Exactly. You are entitled to your opinion, just Dottie was entitled to hers, and JayATee is entitled to think that you're opinion is "stupid" without having to be accused of taking things too personally.
Isn't America great!
Yes, except that JayATee can argue a lot better than that... You underestimate her...