View Full Version : oh dear lord...another one
Sophia_Ashley
05-09-2008, 04:50 PM
I'm actually pretty jealous of that family. Having come from a family of 3 kids with parents who were abusive, incompetent, and only had us because my mom didn't want abortions (3 oops babies that I'm sure my mother had to trap my father), I would KILL to have grown up in a big, loving, wholesome family even if I had to wear stupid wholesome Mormon clothes and gone to church constantly. Those kids are better off than me and my siblings ever were, kooky religion or not. They are loved, cared about, planned, and celebrated. Those kids have it good compared to some of us who came from small families. AND the husband is still banging his wife after popping out 18 kids.
AMEN!!!
ProphecyGirl
05-09-2008, 05:23 PM
As long as they are good, responsible parents I take no issue with it.
There are fucking drug addicted morons who take crack and drink while they are pregnant, and give birth to babies they will never take care of. Taxpayers pay for them.
We could stop overpopulation just by sterilizing repeat offenders. There is no law stopping a woman who gives birth to a kid with FAS from doing it again. People like that are the real problem.
Paris
05-09-2008, 05:42 PM
Color me evil, but I'm curious in a circus-side-show kind of way now. I was horrified at first, but now I want to see them go for 20.
*runs to check guinness book of world records...
Ah, here we go:
Most prolific mother ever
The greatest officially recorded number of children born to one mother is 69, to the wife of Feodor Vassilyev (b. 1707–c.1782), a peasant from Shuya, Russia. In 27 confinements (pregnancies) she gave birth to 16 pairs of twins, seven sets of triplets and four sets of quadruplets.
The Duggar's have a long way to go, but that was over 300 hundred years ago.
TigersMilk
05-09-2008, 06:28 PM
Whoa 69 kids!!!!! They must have been shooting out like a slip and slide! My vag cringes.
MsQwerty
05-09-2008, 09:41 PM
Onward Christian soldiers!
They are creating an army. 18 kids now. What about when all 18 kids grow up with that same brainwashing and each have 18 little christian soldiers of their own? Do the math. They want to populate the world with thier "kind."
They are scary and socially irresponsible. But they believe they are entitled because of thier religion. ::)
Yeah theyre one enormously huge carbon footprint!
High_Heel_Lover
05-09-2008, 09:42 PM
My gma had 19 and adopted 3 after so eh. Still haven't broken my gma's record :)
MsQwerty
05-09-2008, 09:42 PM
There must be a mistake with the dates - this woman and her kids have been on tv before.
Color me evil, but I'm curious in a circus-side-show kind of way now. I was horrified at first, but now I want to see them go for 20.
*runs to check guinness book of world records...
Ah, here we go:
Most prolific mother ever
The greatest officially recorded number of children born to one mother is 69, to the wife of Feodor Vassilyev (b. 1707–c.1782), a peasant from Shuya, Russia. In 27 confinements (pregnancies) she gave birth to 16 pairs of twins, seven sets of triplets and four sets of quadruplets.
The Duggar's have a long way to go, but that was over 300 hundred years ago.
MsQwerty
05-09-2008, 09:54 PM
That's extremely simplistic, as well as incorrect.
Where do you get the -statistic- that 1/3 of all land on earth is arable? Do you realize arable land is being lost each year? What about fresh water to farm all that land for all those people?
BTW, what are some of your ideas for "proper" land use for food?
I was going to ask that. Humans are doing a great job of ruining whats left of the fertile land and there is land which for various reasons is not practical to use anyway. And the land used for other buildings, factories, offices, churches, rods, clubs, airports, mining etc wasnt taken into account either. Not to mention we need forests.
Ava Jadore
05-09-2008, 10:16 PM
Hmmm...and here I am scared to death to even have one child hahaha!
AmArticia
05-09-2008, 10:43 PM
...The world is already overpopulated enough. If you love children that much, go adopt half of China!
Personally, I don't really mind too much since the kids are obviously being raised well and the family isn't a burden on society. Sure, none of them will have any sort of fashion sense (something which I generally regard as criminal) but in this day and age, an entire family of kids that manages to say "please" and "thank you" is good enough to make me forget about the fashion disaster aspect.
AudreyLeigh
05-09-2008, 10:48 PM
...The world is already overpopulated enough. If you love children that much, go adopt half of China!
I seriously hope you werent refering to me. And if you WERE - why dont you read ALL of my posts... ::)
AmArticia
05-09-2008, 11:07 PM
I seriously hope you werent refering to me. And if you WERE - why dont you read ALL of my posts... ::)
Nope, I was not refering to you...just making a general statement. Personally, I think any form of adoption from any country, including local adoptions, is fantastic!
AudreyLeigh
05-09-2008, 11:13 PM
Nope, I was not refering to you...just making a general statement. Personally, I think any form of adoption from any country, including local adoptions, is fantastic!
K... I just hate being misquoted - hard to show emotions on internet forums. ;) Hell, if youre willing to adopt yea, adopt from anywhere. Become the next Angelina Jolie.
christian211
05-10-2008, 12:28 AM
sorry
BohemianSiren
05-10-2008, 01:41 AM
I think most of you have something to say because you just haven't had children yet. No harm, no foul, but realize that having children of your own is FAAAAR superior
This is the most ridiculous (and entirely subjective) generalization ever. Seriously.
Hatshepsut
05-10-2008, 01:46 AM
Uh, AudreyLeigh has a daughter. Also, there are plenty of people out there who have the capacity to love different DNA.
MrChristopher
05-10-2008, 01:56 AM
I am adopted, I was raised Mormon, and I have 4 kids. The Duggars still freak me out.
MarvelGirl
05-10-2008, 01:58 AM
I have one child of my own, and one adopted so...
seraya
05-10-2008, 02:04 AM
Actually more than half of the people who responded to this thread have children.
Hatshepsut
05-10-2008, 02:15 AM
Thank you!
I was adopted in a sense. I was taken in by my aunt and uncle when I was 15, and if I ever settle down, I'd love to adopt a kid. Somebody out there took the time and dedication to love my different DNA, and I'd love to give someone else a chance in the future. I know that there are others out there like me.
I do commend the Duggars for being self-sufficient, and the kids are well-mannered with a good work ethic. I also am glad that they were born into a close knit family rather than negligent crack whores. However, as the first of 6 kids in a religious family who used us for the image, I am disgusted. I do love my family and siblings very much and we're very close, but the 6 kids were born out of idealisms and the need to prove something. The Duggars are having all those kids for the purpose of promoting their ideals. Kids are perfect, malleable tabula rasas who are very impressionable and seek admiration from the parents. Rather than go out and recruit suckers, the Duggars bred their own little brainwashable army. It is abuse to use your kids for your own selfish purposes. Yes, kids should be guided and pushed to do well, but it is not their job to live their parents' lives. A year ago, my father announced that he had 6 kids becuase too many fundies were breeding, and he felt that he had to spread his philanthropy throughout the world via his kids. Although I agree with many of his opinions (liberal political views), I was absolutely furious and told him to his face that he was a stupid idealist who had no sense of foresight and that I paid for his idealisms. Guess who ended up raising the kids? Yep, me. The Duggars are raising each other, especially the girls. Yes, it's great to learn child care, but kids make bad parents becuse they are kids. In short, when there are idealisms like that, the kids are tools. The dad is a politician, they're promoting their golden Christian lifestyle nationwide, and their TV special got their house furnished as well as advertised their beliefs. Believe me, their parents have a lot at stake and are using the kids as the army.
Now, I don't doubt that the kids are pretty happy, as the Duggars have been able to create their own little sheltered utopia that ensures blissful ignorance. My parents tried to do the same, but I went to public school and picked up on an outside world. As long as they stay within this little utopia, things will probably eb fine. However, if one of the kids is having problems, the integrity and image of a golden Christian family will be shattered. The kid will be chided for upsetting the apple cart rather than have the problem acknowledged. The ideals of Christianity and public image are held first and foremost.
Also, I could scream from the faulty logic of birth control causing miscarriages. Uh, that was her first pregnancy. Lots of nulligravita women have miscarriages for many reasons, namely because the body isn't used to foreign DNA and the uterus isn't used to having something in it. As you have more kids, it's easier to get pregnant because your body gets accustomed to both.
Hatshepsut
05-10-2008, 02:54 AM
AudreyLeigh-
I love you;D I think most of you have something to say because you just haven't had children yet. No harm, no foul, but realize that having children of your own is FAAAAR superior(HONESTLY::) than adopting a baby from China, for most of the population.
TOTALLY DIFFERENT!
I'm sure that plenty of adopted children and parents would be very insulted to learn that you consider it to be "lesser" and "FAAAR inferior." You chose to have biological children. Good for you. To each their own. However, stating superiority over adoption is just ridiculous. DNA relation is not necessary for a parent-child bond to exist.
Polekitten
05-10-2008, 03:03 AM
Don't they have a TV? They must be at it like rabbits!!
Peanut_Butter
05-10-2008, 05:46 AM
Originally Posted by christian211
No harm, no foul, but realize that having children of your own is FAAAAR superior(HONESTLY::) than adopting a baby from China, for most of the population.
TOTALLY DIFFERENT
Wow. That is just so fufcked up. I suppose I'm one of the inferrior ones.
So I am adoppted and my brother is biological child. I called my dad just now and asked him to honestly tell me if my brother was superior to me because he has the DNA link and I don't. I also asked him to honestly tell me if he loved my brother more because that is his biological son.
My dad got pissed off and told me to stop asking such dumb questions. We are both equally his children and he loves us both equally. As far as he is concerned, we are all blood related. He also said he hasn't even thought about my being adopted in many years. tIt just never crosses his mind. I am his daughter. That is his son. All the same thing.
As for the Duggars..
Crazy people.
blondhottie
05-10-2008, 06:50 AM
My worry is that there's no way the parents can give 18 children the individual attention that they deserve. Hell, I grew up with 2 younger sisters and 2 younger brothers and I didn't get enough of my parents' attention. It sounds like the older siblings spend so much time doing chores and looking after their younger siblings that they don't get to enjoy being normal teenagers and doing stuff like going to the mall, dating, etc.
Lola Rose
05-10-2008, 07:06 AM
there seems to be an obsession with "individualized" attention. I'd much rather know my mom truely loved me and my siblings then have her available to take me to tons of lessons, playdates and w/ev, but only around her work schedule, then eat takeout for dinner, quickly and with little conversation.
I want to be the next dugger momma- well, the overprotecti\ve, modestly dressed, religion forcing jewish version. ::)
But I'm pretty sure we won't be able to go over 10, per my fertility issues and Robs wishes. Nice to know how highly people who want a big family are thought of, yet again. ::)
kryssy
05-10-2008, 07:32 AM
I am amazed that they really do take care of themselves in every way. Yes, the furniture in the house was "gifted" to them, but they did build the house on their own. That is a great learning experience for the children. My children learn so much more from hads on type of things than they do from a book.
I do envy them on how well run their house is. The only problem that I do have is the "buddy" system. Yes, it's ok to have older children help the younger ones, but the older children are not having any type of normal teenage years. There isn't anyway to do that with 1 or 2 younger kids always with you. It does seem that the parents don't really have to take care of the kids. The older children do.
Joplin
05-10-2008, 08:09 AM
In their religion, are the older children really going to be allowed to got out and date and go to parties and do "normal" teenager things besides get a job and talk on the phone. I doubt it.
Good for the Duggers. If I had desires and means like them I'd have a baby with every egg I dropped. It's my business. When they all become low life's who have no jobs and are eating up my tax dollars then get back to me, but until then I'm not going to judge them negatively for raising respectable children. How dare they!
I hope their kids do have 18 children each. They'll probably be raised well too.
If we're going to start policing how many kids people have we might as well do it correctly and just collect and redistribute all pregnancy powers to well adjusted/ economically comfortable parents and let them go to town, leaving crack addicts and poor people out of it.
Morgan_TX
05-10-2008, 08:24 AM
In their religion, are the older children really going to be allowed to got out and date and go to parties and do "normal" teenager things besides get a job and talk on the phone. I doubt it.
The teen-agers aren't normally allowed to even do that. The "norm" for teens in that type of setting is to prepare for "real life". For the girls, that means assuming an ever greater share of the family's domestic workload. It also frequently means that girls will often start "cottage businesses", usually doing something to cater to the conservative Christian market, like sewing modest clothing or making homemade soaps and candles from their garden. For the boys, that generally means an apprenticeship to learn a trade. For some boys who have shown a strong aptitude for more intellectual pursuits, the family may arrange a mentorship job with a trusted adult in a field of the boy's interest.
Incidentally, such teens are NOT allowed to date. If you are a young man in that culture, you must "court" a woman. When you see a woman who catches your eye, you first consult with your parents and pastor about her. If all looks good (i.e., she's a good Christian woman and would make a good wife), you would approach the woman's father and inquire about the possibility of courting her. He would "interview" you and then tell you that he'll think about it and get back to you. He goes home to discuss it with his wife. If they think it's not a good match, he'll call you and tell you that it's a no-go. If they think it's a good match, they'll present the idea to their daughter. If SHE thinks it's not a good match, they'll call you and tell you it's a no-go (and the PARENTS will do the "breaking up"--you'll never know whether the parents vetoed it or the girl doesn't like you). If she (the girl) thinks it's a good match, her parents will give blessing to begin courtship. "Courtship" is a "getting-to-know-you" process, but the assumption is that you'll be married at the end of your courtship. It's not like dating, where you PLAN to break up with them and you KNOW that you probably will break up. At any rate, the parents are fully involved in the whole thing. Surprisingly enough, these marriages actually seem to be far better than most "normal" marriages. After all, they aren't "dating"--they're sizing each other up for marriage--and they tend to be more honest about their faults and problems because they know they're going to have to live together for the rest of their lives. Plus, the parents and pastor know the children involved and can help them avoid some potential pitfalls.
At any rate...
I'm not speaking specifically for the Duggars, but for the conservative Christian quiverfull community as a whole.
And as a side-note, this thread has seriously pissed me off. I don't judge you because you choose to be child-free. Fact is, I WANT a family like the Duggars. I WANT a husband who looks at me that way after 18 kids, even if he IS a conservative Christian. And the Duggars are good parents, raising responsible children.
I don't judge you because you're child-free, or because you're non-Christian, or whatever. And yet you judge the Duggars (and, presumably, people like them) on the basis of some liberal femi-Nazi bullshit that has no basis in reality. The judgmentalism and vitriol in this thread is truly sickening. I thought SW was a place where we could be FREE from judgmental, narrow-minded behavior that we all have to go through on a daily basis. I guess I was wrong.
Lola Rose
05-10-2008, 09:34 AM
I don't judge you because you're child-free, or because you're non-Christian, or whatever. And yet you judge the Duggars (and, presumably, people like them) on the basis of some liberal femi-Nazi bullshit that has no basis in reality. The judgmentalism and vitriol in this thread is truly sickening. I thought SW was a place where we could be FREE from judgmental, narrow-minded behavior that we all have to go through on a daily basis. I guess I was wrong.
you took the words right out of my mouth.
also- I've been noticing that when someone agrees with the "liberal" thing, they're opinion is welcomed. But when someone disagrees, and has a less common (to the rest of site members)viewpoint, they don't even deserve to have an opinion ::)
Joplin
05-10-2008, 09:39 AM
The teen-agers aren't normally allowed to even do that. The "norm" for teens in that type of setting is to prepare for "real life". For the girls, that means assuming an ever greater share of the family's domestic workload. It also frequently means that girls will often start "cottage businesses", usually doing something to cater to the conservative Christian market, like sewing modest clothing or making homemade soaps and candles from their garden. For the boys, that generally means an apprenticeship to learn a trade. For some boys who have shown a strong aptitude for more intellectual pursuits, the family may arrange a mentorship job with a trusted adult in a field of the boy's interest.
Incidentally, such teens are NOT allowed to date. If you are a young man in that culture, you must "court" a woman. When you see a woman who catches your eye, you first consult with your parents and pastor about her. If all looks good (i.e., she's a good Christian woman and would make a good wife), you would approach the woman's father and inquire about the possibility of courting her. He would "interview" you and then tell you that he'll think about it and get back to you. He goes home to discuss it with his wife. If they think it's not a good match, he'll call you and tell you that it's a no-go. If they think it's a good match, they'll present the idea to their daughter. If SHE thinks it's not a good match, they'll call you and tell you it's a no-go (and the PARENTS will do the "breaking up"--you'll never know whether the parents vetoed it or the girl doesn't like you). If she (the girl) thinks it's a good match, her parents will give blessing to begin courtship. "Courtship" is a "getting-to-know-you" process, but the assumption is that you'll be married at the end of your courtship. It's not like dating, where you PLAN to break up with them and you KNOW that you probably will break up. At any rate, the parents are fully involved in the whole thing. Surprisingly enough, these marriages actually seem to be far better than most "normal" marriages. After all, they aren't "dating"--they're sizing each other up for marriage--and they tend to be more honest about their faults and problems because they know they're going to have to live together for the rest of their lives. Plus, the parents and pastor know the children involved and can help them avoid some potential pitfalls.
At any rate...
I'm not speaking specifically for the Duggars, but for the conservative Christian quiverfull community as a whole.
And as a side-note, this thread has seriously pissed me off. I don't judge you because you choose to be child-free. Fact is, I WANT a family like the Duggars. I WANT a husband who looks at me that way after 18 kids, even if he IS a conservative Christian. And the Duggars are good parents, raising responsible children.
I don't judge you because you're child-free, or because you're non-Christian, or whatever. And yet you judge the Duggars (and, presumably, people like them) on the basis of some liberal femi-Nazi bullshit that has no basis in reality. The judgmentalism and vitriol in this thread is truly sickening. I thought SW was a place where we could be FREE from judgmental, narrow-minded behavior that we all have to go through on a daily basis. I guess I was wrong.
I think you need to slow down and re-read stuff before you post. I said that they wouldn't be able to date. And working in a trade or in the home is a job...so basically you just tried to disagree with me by...agreeing?
Mastridonicus
05-10-2008, 10:42 AM
Seriously, at this point, does he know he's doing it, and is child birth really all that painful anymore?
christian211
05-10-2008, 10:45 AM
I wasn't adopted, but it's something that I've always wanted to do. The idea that "having your own" is "better" just seems absurd to me
I don't understand why you had to quote me in ten diff. posts::) Poor choice of words. It's just diff is all I was trying to say.
christian211
05-10-2008, 10:47 AM
I'm sure that plenty of adopted children and parents would be very insulted to learn that you consider it to be "lesser" and "FAAAR inferior." You chose to have biological children. Good for you. To each their own. However, stating superiority over adoption is just ridiculous. DNA relation is not necessary for a parent-child bond to exist.
See my last post. Just different. not inferior.
christian211
05-10-2008, 10:51 AM
Wow. That is just so fufcked up. I suppose I'm one of the inferrior ones.
So I am adoppted and my brother is biological child. I called my dad just now and asked him to honestly tell me if my brother was superior to me because he has the DNA link and I don't. I also asked him to honestly tell me if he loved my brother more because that is his biological son.
My dad got pissed off and told me to stop asking such dumb questions. We are both equally his children and he loves us both equally. As far as he is concerned, we are all blood related. He also said he hasn't even thought about my being adopted in many years. tIt just never crosses his mind. I am his daughter. That is his son. All the same thing.
As for the Duggars..
Crazy people.
Sorry if I offended you. It was a long night. You can def. love 2 kids equally but differently. Again, my bad. I'm sorry. I'm deleting the post so as to not upset anyone further. I apologize again.
christian211
05-10-2008, 10:59 AM
WTF?
I dont know who you are but I have a NINE YEAR OLD DAUGHTER that I birthed out of my own vagina and raised on my own.
Uhm and I wasnt the one who said to adopt babies from China... that was someone else...
I actually said I personally wouldnt adopt but also said there is nothing wrong with adopting. That is a personal decision just like religion and politics <--- thats a direct quote from another post of mine.
Whats up with people attacking my posts lately?
I was actually agreing w/ you, but per my really rough night, my drunkin ramblings were just that, drunking ramblings. i should def just go to bed when I'm pissy like that;)
christian211
05-10-2008, 11:00 AM
you took the words right out of my mouth.
also- I've been noticing that when someone agrees with the "liberal" thing, they're opinion is welcomed. But when someone disagrees, and has a less common (to the rest of site members)viewpoint, they don't even deserve to have an opinion ::)
QFT- Thank you Lola
Dottie Rebel
05-10-2008, 11:18 AM
Good god some of you are touchy as fuck. Calm the hell down. It isn't all about you.
Paintbaby
05-10-2008, 01:16 PM
Y'all DO realize that the Duggars, and the crazy right-wing religious fundamentalist freaks like them who are also part of the "quiverfull" movement, are breeding like rabbits to make little warriors for "God's Army", right? And that these folks and others of their ilk have no compunction whatsoever in working hard to limit the reproductive freedoms of women in your country, right? That means, no abortion, no birth control, no nothin'. To these folks, wimminz are made for birthin' babies and obeying husbands. That would be fine and dandy if that is what they wanted for themselves, but they want it for EVERY woman. Including every woman on this board.
Oh, and daddy Jimbob has said that it is the BOYS who will be going to college, not the girls. What do you think their lot in life will be? And do you think, that by actively having their opportunities limited, that there lives will be something they actually get to shape themselves? Highly doubtful.
So, this isn't just some harmless, jolly little family who just happens to love kids. These are dangerous assholes, pandering to the media, and they really, really hate woman who have sexual freedoms. And they are raising those lovely, innocent children to think just like they do.
Morgan_TX
05-10-2008, 02:26 PM
Y'all DO realize that the Duggars, and the crazy right-wing religious fundamentalist freaks like them who are also part of the "quiverfull" movement, are breeding like rabbits to make little warriors for "God's Army", right? And that these folks and others of their ilk have no compunction whatsoever in working hard to limit the reproductive freedoms of women in your country, right? That means, no abortion, no birth control, no nothin'. To these folks, wimminz are made for birthin' babies and obeying husbands. That would be fine and dandy if that is what they wanted for themselves, but they want it for EVERY woman. Including every woman on this board.
Oh, and daddy Jimbob has said that it is the BOYS who will be going to college, not the girls. What do you think their lot in life will be? And do you think, that by actively having their opportunities limited, that there lives will be something they actually get to shape themselves? Highly doubtful.
So, this isn't just some harmless, jolly little family who just happens to love kids. These are dangerous assholes, pandering to the media, and they really, really hate woman who have sexual freedoms. And they are raising those lovely, innocent children to think just like they do.
Do you have ANY idea what you're really talking about? See, I spent three YEARS in the conservative Christian culture. I can show you pictures of ME in ankle-length cape dresses with headcoverings, and you know what? I miss it.
Do you realize what the life is actually like? Probably not, since I'm betting you've never been there. The women in that community will back you and support you. They're the women that will come bring you food and clean your house when you have a new baby. They're the kindest, most open and ACCEPTING people I've ever met. I took one of my pagan friends with me to a church meeting a few times, and she (short, spiky, hot pink hair, a tank top, and ripped jeans) said that she has NEVER felt so comfortable in a religious group. I used to attend church with a Holdeman Mennonite congregation, and the gypsies would attend with us every now and again. Those women were the sweetest, friendliest women I've ever met. Ever.
Those women ARE expected to stay home and raise children, but you have to remember that in THEIR society (and it IS a completely separate society from the rest of us), that type of work is very highly valued. They grow up seeing parents and friends being admired and respected for being housewives. Is it any wonder, then, that they so often choose the same path? They're trained from a very early age to manage a household, tend to children, and handle domestic affairs. They are NOT (as you might wish to believe) mindless slaves. I've quilted and cooked with these women, and they're very intelligent and highly skilled household managers. And for the most part, they're very happy with their beliefs and their community.
They take care of each other. I don't know about you, but I know that when I've struggled in the past, I often didn't have ANYONE to take care of me or to help me out. Except, of course, for the Charity family we met in North Dakota that contacted a Holdeman family in Arizona that unexpectedly brought several armloads of groceries to our home. And this, after we left the conservative Christian community.
Husbands take care of their wives. Contrary to femi-Nazi propaganda, conservative Christian husbands take care of their wives. They care for them financially and practically, and they do exhibit great affection and respect for their wives. After a dinner, the men will often retreat into the living room to talk. The children will go outside to play, and the women will go to the kitchen to clean up and chatter. When you're in that kitchen and you hear a woman who's been married 25 years say, "I still think he's the most handsome man in the world, and I couldn't ask for a better husband," with tears in her eyes and showing you the Mother's Day card he got her and the simple poem he wrote for her, it really is touchng. And when (as my ex-husband told me) you hear the husband bragging about how wonderful his wife is and how she truly IS "more precious than rubies", it really makes you think that perhaps they're doing SOMETHING right.
Yes, it's true that there's less freedom in that community, and in the end, I simply had to accept the fact that as much as I loved that way of life, I simply couldn't convince myself to accept the existence of God as fact. But I think that perhaps if you want to talk about the lifestyle and community of the conservative Christian in America, you might want to try visiting a few churches and talking to a few conservative Christians, rather than simply parrotting the propaganda that the feminist movement and atheist religious eradication pundits are feeding you.
ETA: They may have their opportunities "limited", but I guarantee you that their lives will be far more prosperous than the lives of the majority of Americans. The women will marry for life to someone their parents have approved of, and they will be supported as housewives until death. The boys will go to college or learn a trade and exercise responsible financial management, only considering marriage when they have established themselves as good providers. It's a damn sight better than what most of us have to live with.
Paintbaby
05-10-2008, 02:38 PM
Um, yeah, but no. As I said, I don't give a sideways goddamn about how many kids anyone wants to have, or what their religious affiliation is, UNTIL they try to do harm to others. In this case, re: the reproductive freedoms of women.
The Duggars and those of the Quiverfull movement, are actively working to limit the reproductive freedoms of women in your country. (You might want to check out Jimbob's political record. ) And that is not okay. And I hardly consider these people Christians. True Christians don't judge or try to do harm to others. Jesus is embarrassed by these people. Like I said, I have no problem with how anyone wants to live, so long as they aren't trying to decide that for the rest of us.
I suggest YOU do YOUR homework.
The fact you use the term "feminazi" (snicker) really tells me all I need to know. Good luck to you.
Lola Rose
05-10-2008, 02:55 PM
ok... try to see the other side.. ya, to you, it's a reproductive right, but to them, it's as rediculous as legalizing pedophelia or rape. I'm not saying who is right, but try to see it from their side, they really are only doing what they think is right, just like you are when you try to protect your choice of BC or abortion.
please- don't attack me personally. I'm just playing devils advocate.
Paintbaby
05-10-2008, 03:09 PM
Well, sure Lola--people have the right to do what they think is right. (And I would never attack you personally--shame on you :P )But when you try to limit what someone else is doing to their own body, that is not right. In fact, in this case, it is downright evil. And given the far-reaching social, economic, and political repercussions that occur when women's reproductive freedoms are limited, I really can't see the good that would come of limiting a woman's right to birth control or abortion. Lots of women on this board have had abortions, and many more are on birth control. I'm sure they were glad to have had access to both when needed. I know I heart my condoms! And the Plan B I needed after a drunken sexual frenzy sans condom.
I can't see how wanting to protect oneself from an unwanted pregnancy is tantamount to pedophilia or rape. These folks and others like them are just basically indulging in what amounts to nothing more than gratuitous panty-sniffing. A woman's sex life is not the business of anyone other than herself and her partner.
AudreyLeigh
05-10-2008, 03:53 PM
I was actually agreing w/ you, but per my really rough night, my drunkin ramblings were just that, drunking ramblings. i should def just go to bed when I'm pissy like that;)
Yea. I just re-read it and saw that you werent saying I dont have a kid - that some others dont. No harm no foul...
Paris
05-10-2008, 04:02 PM
Could the anger aimed at the Duggar's be because the idea of such an enormous family is thought to be morally repugnant to many people today?
The Earth is 24,859 miles in circumference. It's not getting any bigger. There are 6.7 billion humans currently living on earth. 100 years ago the population was 1.7 billion. 200 years ago it was 980 million.
Eventually, if we keep up the population pace, some (or all) people are going to starve to death. Plain and simple. There are already food riots going on around the planet. Blame it on gas prices, war, socio-economic problems, global warming or whatever. The bottom line is too many people and not enough resources.
Of course, if we kill our planet by literally consuming it, no one will be left to point fingers at anyway.
Lola Rose
05-10-2008, 04:08 PM
Well, sure Lola--people have the right to do what they think is right. (And I would never attack you personally--shame on you :P )But when you try to limit what someone else is doing to their own body, that is not right. In fact, in this case, it is downright evil. And given the far-reaching social, economic, and political repercussions that occur when women's reproductive freedoms are limited, I really can't see the good that would come of limiting a woman's right to birth control or abortion. Lots of women on this board have had abortions, and many more are on birth control. I'm sure they were glad to have had access to both when needed. I know I heart my condoms! And the Plan B I needed after a drunken sexual frenzy sans condom.
I can't see how wanting to protect oneself from an unwanted pregnancy is tantamount to pedophilia or rape. These folks and others like them are just basically indulging in what amounts to nothing more than gratuitous panty-sniffing. A woman's sex life is not the business of anyone other than herself and her partner.
I'm not accusing you of attacking me, just hoping other don't either! :hug: you're way too sweet!
I'm a fan of BC too, and I really don't get their stance on that... but I try, a tiny bit, to be openminded. It seems to help me stay out of trouble!
MsQwerty
05-10-2008, 05:00 PM
Yep. I couldnt care less how many children anyone wants to have. However in environmental terms of course its going to be criticized. People should be thinking very hard about the impact breeding has on the planet. I would assume that most parents hope that their children and grand children can live in a world thats not going to be worse than the one we know (and since our world is pretty shit for millions and millions and millions of people living in it already thats a very fair call.) The more people we put into the world the less chance there is of our offspring living on a stable planet. Unless of course god really is going to step in and save everyone... ::)
And btw, I am an only child and so is my son. Who ever made those shitty points about only children - wake up and smell the coffee.
Could the anger aimed at the Duggar's be because the idea of such an enormous family is thought to be morally repugnant to many people today?
The Earth is 24,859 miles in circumference. It's not getting any bigger. There are 6.7 billion humans currently living on earth. 100 years ago the population was 1.7 billion. 200 years ago it was 980 million.
Eventually, if we keep up the population pace, some (or all) people are going to starve to death. Plain and simple. There are already food riots going on around the planet. Blame it on gas prices, war, socio-economic problems, global warming or whatever. The bottom line is too many people and not enough resources.
Of course, if we kill our planet by literally consuming it, no one will be left to point fingers at anyway.
MsQwerty
05-10-2008, 05:12 PM
Yay, something to strive for! /:O
Those women ARE expected to stay home and raise children, but you have to remember that in THEIR society (and it IS a completely separate society from the rest of us), that type of work is very highly valued. They grow up seeing parents and friends being admired and respected for being housewives. Is it any wonder, then, that they so often choose the same path? They're trained from a very early age to manage a household, tend to children, and handle domestic affairs. They are NOT (as you might wish to believe) mindless slaves. I've quilted and cooked with these women, and they're very intelligent and highly skilled household managers. And for the most part, they're very happy with their beliefs and their community.
Husbands take care of their wives. Contrary to femi-Nazi propaganda, conservative Christian husbands take care of their wives. They care for them financially and practically, and they do exhibit great affection and respect for their wives.
ETA: They may have their opportunities "limited", but I guarantee you that their lives will be far more prosperous than the lives of the majority of Americans. The women will marry for life to someone their parents have approved of, and they will be supported as housewives until death.
Aubreyyy
05-10-2008, 05:15 PM
I assume all of the women that have stated that Michelle Duggar shouldn't be birthing as many babies as she pleases support birth control and a woman's right to choose abortion.
A woman's body is HERS. I would venture to say that is a popular thought on this board. So why are people saying that she can't have as many kids as she pleases?
Hypocrisy is apparently not only a crazy Jesus-freak trait....
Lola Rose
05-10-2008, 05:17 PM
I assume all of the women that have stated that Michelle Duggar shouldn't be birthing as many babies as she pleases support birth control and a woman's right to choose abortion.
A woman's body is HERS. I would venture to say that is a popular thought on this board. So why are people saying that she can't have as many kids as she pleases?
Hypocrisy is apparently not only a crazy Jesus-freak trait....
:rotfl:
BEST POST IN A LONG TIME!!!
:rotfl:
Lilah29
05-10-2008, 07:51 PM
:rotfl:
BEST POST IN A LONG TIME!!!
:rotfl:
Not really. It's an illogical post. Many times when people cry "hypocrisy!" it's because they have a very shallow understanding of the issues. The reasons for supporting abortion at the same time as believing that humans shouldn't be bringing large numbers of children onto the planet are different. Abortion can be more fully said to be between a woman and her own body, on balance. Bringing huge numbers of kids onto an already overburdened planet is a social issue that others have some legitimate business to be concerned about.
In fact, if you wanted to make the "issue" a population/environmental one, then it would be MOST consistent to be for bringing less children onto the planet, hence, pro-abortion, pro-smaller family per individual woman.
I'm still waiting for some facts about how 2/3 of the world supposedly consists of arable land (which is apparently not shrinking), how we're going to get all the water for people and for farming, and how we could be using the land to make all of this work out easily for 9 billion people.
http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1537314&postcount=49