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Victoryx0x0
05-11-2008, 11:23 PM
I hear u babes, but just know not all are bad, my pitty is a big baby and wouldnt hurt a flea :( i am sorry u got hurt im glad u are okay
oh yeh i got bit in the face by a springer spaniel, an had to get 12 stiches and he was centimeters from my eye :o

MarvelGirl
05-11-2008, 11:28 PM
I don't want to be rude, or sound like I'm harping on you at all, but I think you should have called the police. Any dog that lunges and grabs onto a person in a public area for no reason needs to be put down. That's not acceptable, and yes it is the owner's fault, but that dog is already ruined.

Even if it isn't gushing blood or requiring stitches, it's an attack. People have the right to go outside without fearing some strange dog attacking them because they "looked at it wrong", or some such crap. Our right to not be mauled trumps their right to even exist. I don't care how that sounds, it's true.

I may be a monster but once a dog bites (and I consider your situation to be a bite) they don't live in my neighborhood anymore. Accidents happen, even if they require a little rat poison, bulk pork sausage, and a sling shot.

Jeska
05-11-2008, 11:40 PM
I don't think pitbulls are aggressive by nature though, it's usually the owners fault for training them to be so.

Perry
05-11-2008, 11:46 PM
I may be a monster but once a dog bites (and I consider your situation to be a bite) they don't live in my neighborhood anymore. Accidents happen, even if they require a little rat poison, bulk pork sausage, and a sling shot.

You're not a monster if you're aiming that poinsoned meat at the owner. He'll just do it again with another animal. Even dogs with a tendancy toward aggression can, should and need to be trained to obey the owner's comands. My mom rescued a violent rottweiler and worked with her untill she was a very sweet - all be it high maitnece animal.

Lilah29
05-12-2008, 12:37 AM
You're not a monster if you're aiming that poinsoned meat at the owner. He'll just do it again with another animal. Even dogs with a tendancy toward aggression can, should and need to be trained to obey the owner's comands. My mom rescued a violent rottweiler and worked with her untill she was a very sweet - all be it high maitnece animal.

That's true. Strong-willed, poorly trained dogs need appropriate care and training for their socially undesirable habits. Even some of Michael Vick's dogs who were trained to fight are becoming lovely animals, with the proper guidance.

Marvel - I don't think it's cool to talk about poisoning someone's animal. Call animal control or whatever - they take dog aggression seriously. You might kill some other animal or kid in the process, and it's a really cruel way to die. I think it's kind of psychopathic to poison someone's dog, when there are more humane resources available to you.

BrunetteGoddess
05-12-2008, 01:19 AM
How come nobody ever gets attacked by a golden retriever or something.....

Erm, my last dog and I were attacked by a golden retriever before. /:O

Sunshine73
05-12-2008, 01:31 AM
I feel that a lot of it has to do with the owners. I think if someone is going to take on any dog, they need to treat the dog with love and respect. Otherwise it is going to be a hateful animal.

I got attacked when I was a little girl by a doberman...or maybe it was a german shepard...but the thing never ate and it was ill treated and I didn't do anything to the dog and it attacked me out of the blue.

Still, to this day, I am wary of dogs, simply because I do not know how they are treated by their owner. And if a dog does attack, the owner should be held responsible.

I'm sorry about what happened & I hope you are healing up quickly!

Peanut_Butter
05-12-2008, 01:37 AM
This thread makes me sad. So many misconceptions. So many uneducated people. And who suffers because of it? The poor dogs who need to be put to sleep bcause dumb fuck people don't have a clue on how to care for or train a dog properly. No dog likes being agressive or mean. It's not their nature, weather they were bred for fighting or not. It doesn't make them happy. An agressive dog is never at fault. the owner is. But the dog has to pay for it.

It's so sad.

Perry
05-12-2008, 02:07 AM
^^ So true. They are domesticated animals. It's not that much different than an abused child that can't fit in with society from bad parenting.

Miss Jessica
05-12-2008, 02:59 AM
There are so many pitbulls in my nieghborhood, but luckily I've never had a problem w/them. Now the little Pomeranians (every single asian family on my block, seriously, owns a Pom. and that's a lot, my nieghborhood is predominantly asian and black) they've lunged at me! LoL. But I just think it's as cute as can be. I really don't mind having so many dogs in my hood, even though I'm not a dog person. But I'll for sure NEVER be letting my furbaby outside!

jaizaine
05-12-2008, 03:25 AM
It's the people who breed/own them that are the main problem not the breed itself.

I had a pet cockerspaniel as a child and it bit me in the face without warning one day right under my left eye - scarily close. I required stitches.

ANY breed can turn on a human and bite. Leaving small kids around any breed is negligent and stupid because children dont always know how to behave around animals - they may tease them, pull their tails etc or the dog might just not be used to children.

I have owned 2 great danes (the gentle giants) and I absolutely love great danes. I have never owned a pit bull but I do know someone who owns 3 of them and they are really sweet dogs. One of them just wants cuddles all the time and loves to rest his big head on you. In Victoria it is now illegal to breed pit bulls. I think that's pretty sad really to force the end of a particular breed of dog.

Lola Rose
05-12-2008, 05:26 AM
I don't want to be rude, or sound like I'm harping on you at all, but I think you should have called the police. Any dog that lunges and grabs onto a person in a public area for no reason needs to be put down. That's not acceptable, and yes it is the owner's fault, but that dog is already ruined.

Even if it isn't gushing blood or requiring stitches, it's an attack. People have the right to go outside without fearing some strange dog attacking them because they "looked at it wrong", or some such crap. Our right to not be mauled trumps their right to even exist. I don't care how that sounds, it's true..

I just wanna nod along. I put people rights above animal rights. What if the next person the dog attacks is a 3 yr old child????
I also think the owner should have some serious punishment too.... they're definatly at fault as well.

Peanut_Butter
05-12-2008, 05:38 AM
I don't want to be rude, or sound like I'm harping on you at all, but I think you should have called the police. Any dog that lunges and grabs onto a person in a public area for no reason needs to be put down. That's not acceptable, and yes it is the owner's fault, but that dog is already ruined.




There are very very few dogs that are ruined forever due to bad owners. Most dogs can be rehabilitated with the proper care and training. No dog deserves to be put down because of dumb owners.




I may be a monster but once a dog bites (and I consider your situation to be a bite) they don't live in my neighborhood anymore. Accidents happen, even if they require a little rat poison, bulk pork sausage, and a sling shot.



Might I suggest the more legal approach of calling animal control? If you live in my neighborhood ( and I hope to god not) and I found out you were going around laying rat poison traps, I would call the cops and have animal abuse charges. Aside from taking things into your own hands without knowing the situation, it is animal abuse, you could get in very serious trouble if caught...aside from all of that...What do you do when another dog or cat or even child happens apon your little trap? What will you do then? because if my little dog or cat ever got into rat poison, I would press charges and sue so fast your head would spin.

I hope you don't own any pets.


And yes, I agree that people have the right not to be mauled. And that is the dog OWNERS responsibility to make sure his dog doesn't hurt anyone. It isnt the dogs responsibility. He doesn't know any better than what his humans have taught him!

I see bad dog owners every single day at the dog park and it makes me absolutly sick to see so many dogs that arent being cared for properly. Just becuase you provide food water shelter and affection does not mean your caring for your dog properly. And people wonder why their dog gets agressive. Cause he's unhappy. Cause he isnt being cared for. Cause he isnt being taught the right way to act.

jaizaine
05-12-2008, 05:43 AM
I may be a monster but once a dog bites (and I consider your situation to be a bite) they don't live in my neighborhood anymore. Accidents happen, even if they require a little rat poison, bulk pork sausage, and a sling shot.

Yeh you are. Im disgusted by this post. I didn't see this post before. Humans do not have more right to live than an animal wtf gives humans this superiority complex anyway.
All life is sacred.

SundayMorning
05-12-2008, 06:44 AM
Cesar Milan, people.

There's two parts to any dog: nature and nurture. By nature, pits are genetically inclined to be strong, aggressive dogs. By which I don't mean "prone to random attacks," I mean that they are naturally dominant and will assume that role UNLESS someone else proves their dominance over the dog.

That's the "nurture" part. Sure, raising your dog to be unstable and violent is one way of achieving that result. But it's not the only way. Many pet owners fall prey to treating their animal like their baby and they give it love but not discipline. That's one of the worst things you can do, as the next paragraph explains. The other problem with large bully breeds like pits is that they require a LOT of exercise to keep them stable. An unexercized dog is a bored dog, and a bored dog is an unstable, unpredictable and often a violent dog. He has energy that he has to release. If you don't give him an outlet, sooner or later he will find one.

Cesar's entire modus with dogs is "exercise, discipline, THEN affection." When you give affection first (which is MUCH more common among pet owners than deliberately raising a violent animal), a.) your dog is probably restless, bored and full of (increasingly nervous) energy, and b.) your dog thinks that he is the alpha in your household. NO GOOD. You have to constantly prove to your dog that you are the head of the household. Every human in your house, down to your children, is higher in the pack than the dog. You do this through consistent and effective discipline. And you do it before you give love to the animal. Every time. Otherwise, the dog will feel the power dynamic shift and he will have nothing preventing him from releasing his nervous energy on anyone at any time.

This is true for all breeds. Not discounting the breed because bullies (pits, dobies, rotts, etc) are just that. They will test you and make sure that you are really dominant enough to be their pack leader. Once you've proven to them that you are the alpha, they are great followers. But they will test you and any pet owner and friend of an owner should be aware of that.

[/lecture]

Lexi
05-12-2008, 06:54 AM
In Victoria it is now illegal to breed pit bulls. I think that's pretty sad really to force the end of a particular breed of dog.

It IS sad. Not only that, if they DO eradicate the breed, people will just go and look for another bigger, more powerful dog to fuck up.

People fuckin suck.

Notice how its ok to be "prejudiced" against a certain animal but not people.

xdamage
05-12-2008, 07:03 AM
If they're not dangerous, why is that every 4 months or so there's another story on the news about someone getting chewed half to death- and it always happens to be a pitbull? Why do they account for a third of all dog bite related fatalities?

My rant is related.

Why is it that people have to classify everything into all or nothing categories, in this case DANGEROUS or NOT DANGEROUS?

Why is it so hard for people to understand the concept of something in the middle, like on a scale from not dangerous to dangerous, the odds of this type of dog being involved in attack are greater then with various other types of pets?

The problem is anyone can pull out their own pet and use it as an example, but it's still valid to look at the statistics and ask, are the odds higher of this breed of dog being involved in an unprovoked attack.

A related rant. Pets are still animals. Through a lot of breeding or historical luck we end up with certain breeds, with various genetic tendencies, but fundamentally they are still animals. Given that even us intelligent human creatures can be dangerous, it's kind of silly of people to expect that animals have perfect control over their emotional reactions including the emotional reaction to defend, or even attack what they perceive as a threat.

Peanut_Butter
05-12-2008, 07:03 AM
^ I love Cesar. TiVo his show, read all his books, apply ALL his methods with my puppy. It's hard. It's time consuming. It requires constant thought, because my first instinct is to love, and that isnt the right thing to do.
A good example:
My puppy got beat up by a beagle at the dog park. My first instinct was to scoop in and pick up my dog. But that would be very very bad. First of all, it would make my dog be afraid of other dogs. Second of all, by my giving him affection and cooing at him, " aww, poor baby, you ok? aww. yoru fine. it'll be ok poor thing" That is nuturing his fear. Fear in a dog is never good. It makes them unstable. Which leads to agression.
Instead when this attack happened, I first pulled the other dog off my dog. I would have done the dominance ritual on him, but he wasnt my dog, so I just let him go. Then I picked up my dog and checked him over to make sure he was ok. but I did not give him affection. I didnt want to encourager his fear.

The absolute worst thing I see in a dog park is when a dog is growling agressivly at another dog and the owners say, what's wrong, buddy? it's ok. calm down. then pet him. That is saying to the dog " it's ok to growl." That turns into agression. The dog thinks its the proper behavior cause the owner just said it was ok. This is what causes pit bulls and other dogs to become mean and attack. Cause the owner basicially was telling them all along it was ok. The owners just dont know any better.

Sorry, I feel like Im overtaking this thread. I just feel strongly about it. But I will step out now. And encourage everyone to read Cesar Milan's books. He knows his shit.

Jenny
05-12-2008, 07:04 AM
If only we could have effective laws that targeted the behaviour of dogs and owners instead of the length of the dog's snout. Clearly this is a dream. Obviously the best way to handle this problem is for neighbourhood hoodlums to poisons other people's dogs.

Vyanka
05-12-2008, 07:10 AM
They're should at least be some kind of licensing/training required to own an aggressive breed. It pisses me off to no end than any ignorant @sshat can buy one out of some cretins back yard and walk around it.

I agree completely & i've always said this. Some ppl shouldn't have these aggresive dogs they can't train or control.

SundayMorning
05-12-2008, 07:14 AM
^P_B, :highfive: Total agreement. It IS hard. But totally worth it, because the other thing I didn't mention is that dogs are HAPPIEST when they are being exercised and disciplined properly. They aren't happiest when they're babied and pampered and crooned to (in neglect of E&D) because they're dogs. That's what they need. Many pet owners don't discipline their dogs effectively because they're afraid of being "mean" to them, when in fact it is the kindest thing to do because it keeps the dog in balance. You hear people saying that children need rules and boundaries; dogs are the same way. Their universe is simpler and more satisfying when it is as linear as "human = dominant. dog = submissive." (Hee, OT, I always get a little giggly with the animal BDSM.)

Anyway, just adding to what P_B and I said above.

jaizaine
05-12-2008, 07:19 AM
I dont understand the concept of hating a dog or any animal, it's seems weird to me.

This thread reminds me once again why I prefer dogs over most people. For one dogs are not capable of hating.

Lexi
05-12-2008, 07:31 AM
^^^ Yup!

Kabukicho
05-12-2008, 08:18 AM
This thread makes me sad. So many misconceptions. So many uneducated people. And who suffers because of it? The poor dogs who need to be put to sleep bcause dumb fuck people don't have a clue on how to care for or train a dog properly. No dog likes being agressive or mean. It's not their nature, weather they were bred for fighting or not. It doesn't make them happy. An agressive dog is never at fault. the owner is. But the dog has to pay for it.

It's so sad.


^Just wanted to say I entirely agree with this. It's the owners.

xdamage
05-12-2008, 08:46 AM
...That's what they need. Many pet owners don't discipline their dogs effectively because they're afraid of being "mean" to them, when in fact it is the kindest thing to do because it keeps the dog in balance. You hear people saying that children need rules and boundaries; dogs are the same way.

I agree. Also with your point about nature vs nurture.

Discipline is not being "mean". It is necessary or you end up with dogs (and people) who lack the ability to self-limit once they grow older. If they are going to be part of a society, and get along with other animals and other humans, they need discipline as surely as we people do.

Peanut_Butter
05-12-2008, 09:44 AM
Some people have commented to me that I am "mean" to my puppy. I am strict with him. But never, ever mean. I dont even raise my voice at him. But I do enforee rules. He isn't allowed in the kitchen. When we go to the dog park, he must sit down calmly and wiat until I open the gate and allow him in. I dont open he gate and invite him in until he is sitting camly. We dont go outside for a walk until he sits calmly. I go out the door first. Everythign we do he has to be calm first. He is a very high energy breed, and he does very well with calming down when I ask him to. Of couse, he has his limits. He wont sit calmly foperver, and I dont ask him to. Just a minute is all I want. I never allow him in the dog park until he is calm. I dont allow him to bark at other dogs or people excessivly. I dont allow him to sniff and pee on every tree. When he goes outside to potty, he can stiff at the most 3 spots. When we walk, which we do every single day, and a 5 mile hike once a week, he walks next to me, unless i allow him to go ahead of me for a while. I dont allow him to sniff unless we are on a break. Our walks mean business. And he LOVES them.

But you know what? My dog is HAPPY. He is well adjusted, he has no issues and he is happy. He loves walkign with me every day, he loves going to the dog park every day and he behaves beautifully. He is just 7 months old now and knows sit, stay, lay down, go to bed, quiet, and a slew of tricks and other commands. Aside from walkign him every day and going to the dog park, I play games with him like find the cheese. He uses his nose, and thats important for a dog and the games make him happy and feel useful. I also have enrolled him in an agility class starting next month because i think he will reall yenjoy that and its another outlet for his energy. He is never destructive, he is never bored and he is just a happy go lucky puppy.

Sorry, I'm threadjacking massively, but my point is, dogs are a LOT of work. Most people do not realize that. And when dogs are not cared for properly, they get bored, destructive and agressive. None of which makes a dog happy.

When I made the decision to get my first dog, although I grew up with them, I didnt really know much abotu how to raise a puppy. So I read everythign I could find and prepared myself. I foudn Cesar and agreed with his theories and methods, so I use them. I wish all people wanting a dog would have to mandatory education class before being allowed to adopt.

Ok. Sorry for the TJ.

VegasPrincess
05-12-2008, 10:08 AM
First of all, it is extremely hard to pick a pit bull out of a line up. American bulldogs and boxers look quite similar.

Second, the reason that those attacks or bites get posted on the news is well, because of people like you. People are afraid of pits and it is "sensational" to put the bites on the news. All dogs bite. In fact, the most common offender is the cocker spaniel.

Third, I can't believe you posted an I hate pit bulls thread. Condemning a dog by their breed is the dog equivalent of racism. I don't think you would post a I hate xyz race thread.

Fourth, I have two pit bulls and they are the sweetest dogs ever. One in fact is a hospice dog. She brings joy to the elderly every week.

VegasPrincess
05-12-2008, 10:12 AM
I'm pissed, and start screaming about "you people and your fucking pitbulls!" And he says "It's got nothing to do with what he is!" Oh yeah, I guess it's just another fucking coincidence, like it always is.



Let's substitute people in this statement... " You fucking Italian people!" And he says, "it's going nothing to do with his being Italian!" Oh yeah, I guess it's just another fucking coincidence, like it always is.

(I just used Italian because that's what I am. And also "you people" is generally a racist generalization)

Vyanka
05-12-2008, 10:19 AM
I'm not going to lie, I get scared when I see a stranger with a pit or any well known aggresive dog with them. I've only met one pitbull that was very sweet & loveable, but I still felt the need to be cautious when I was petting it. I had a friend who was taking care of a pit like that, sweet dog.. but it growled and almost attacked her out of no where for no reason. And she is great with dogs.

I'm cautious with every strange dog IDK(even the little cute ones), but with pits, germans, & rocks I get a little shakey. Can't help it. :-\

randompisces
05-12-2008, 10:22 AM
Being a big advocate of Ban The Deed, not the Breed, I find it hard that the reason the dog 'attacked' was simply because it was a pitbull. Yes, pitbulls are more aggressive; yes, if untrained, they are more dangerous; yes, they're one of the stronger dogs and can cause more harm. However, the family loved dalmatian is one of the top 10 most dangerous dogs, though few ever mention them.

Here's some websites etc... while the one will show the Pitbull as being the forefront of dog attacks and killings (I'm not disputing this), I just wished it shown how many of those dogs were untrained or disciplined.

Dog Attacks 1982 - 2006 US / Canada (http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%201982%20to%202006%20Clifton.pdf)
Pitbull Facts (http://www.realpitbull.com/perspective.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/ilovemyhonda93/pitbullban.jpg

I've owned 5 pitbulls, 3 boxers, 2 shepards and 4 rottwiellers and a few chihuahuas... among my plethora of cats (I'm actually a cat person).

Out of all the dogs I've owned, I've only had issues with one of the pits, 1 shepard, and all of the chihuahuas. The 2 bigger dogs were easily fixed with discipline classes and a 'firm hand' at keeping them as the non-alpha male. The chihuahuas no classes could keep from being dirty bastards... they'd run and be good when told to, but immediately start up when you turned your back.

The rest of the dogs I've owned were all trained and well behaved; even amongst other animals and children (in fact, Smiles (pit) and Uther (rott) LOVED kids, and would tolerate anything they did to them). In the end, it's all about how they're raised or treated.

I'm sorry you got attacked, but instead of immediately blaming the dog's breed, simply blame the dog itself. It was a bad dog, it could well have been any type that attacked you.

VegasPrincess
05-12-2008, 10:25 AM
^^^

Yes!!! Awesome statistics, I have seen those before. I love people that want to come to my house, take my dogs and kill them because they are pitbulls... WTF?

" The merits of a nation can be judged on the way it treats its animals"

twisterinAZ
05-12-2008, 10:38 AM
Those dogs are dangerous plain and simple. They bite . They are agressive . It is the nature of the breed. They often turn on thier owners. They attack little kids. I used to own one named Suki. She was a beautiful red brindle and we showered her with love and attention. She bit people ! She bit me. She bit a teenager that came to our door selling candy. She bit my boyfriend . We never mistreated her. We loved her but she was just aggresive by nature. And they are strong as fuck so they can do some serious damage. It is my personal opinion that they should be illegal because of thier potential to do serious harm. Remember that woman who was mauled to death in San Francisco ? There's a reason you can't have certaing types of animals as pets and I believe that pitbulls should be one of them. I'm so sick of hearing about children being mauled by these aggressive animals !

randompisces
05-12-2008, 10:41 AM
So... because pitbulls bite, they should be illegal. I can think of a lot of things that bite or scratch aggressively... they should all be banned? Did your Suki have training? Ever send her to obedience classes? Some animals (not just dogs) require more then love and affection to be socially acceptable... hell, some PEOPLE even.

Saying pitbulls should be illegal because they're aggressive, is like saying all germans should be illegal because hitler was bad?

twisterinAZ
05-12-2008, 10:56 AM
Yes she had training and we never mistreated her in any way.When my ex and I parted, I let him keep her because she scared me with her agression and it was nothing we did. Almost all of my experiences with pitbulls have been negative with one noteable exception but I keep my distance from this specific dog.

Again, I agree with the OP . I sure as shit pick up my Pom when I see one and I avoid those dogs. If I ever had kids I wouldn't risk letting them be around this agressive, unpredictable breed.

And whoever posted those statistics, where did they come from? Some lame save the pitbulls site ? I wonder how parents of mauled children feel about that silly little comic strip you posted >:(

Jenny
05-12-2008, 11:08 AM
Those dogs are dangerous plain and simple. They bite . They are agressive . It is the nature of the breed. Um. No it's not. Even 19th century dogs that were trained to fight other dogs were not bred or trained to be aggressive with people. They were, in fact, kept in households with the trainers. Staffs were actually referred to as "nanny dogs" because they were gentle with and protective of children. Some very rare dogs, regardless of breed, are innately aggressive or are fear biters. Most often, however, if your dog bites it has something to do with your training.

If we're talking about "nature of a breed" consider that most dogs have some dominant characteristics "bred" into them; shepherding dogs are extremely dominant, being bred to... you know, herd. Australian shepherds in particular - very, very dominant and prone to biting, especially with children. Terriers are bred to "rat" - to catch and kill rodents. Hunting breeds, bred to chase down. Dalmatians have a very, very high rate of deafness or partial deafness, frequently undetected by the owner, which can make the dog skittish and nervous (as well, they have a very unique body language, which some people find intimidating). Yet all of these dogs are/were routinely kept in households. Most dogs were bred and trained to be "dominant" over something - it's just that, with the exception of guarding dogs, it is usually not people.

Something to keep in mind: the bite fatality statistics keep track of what they call "pit-types". So they include a few breeds in what they call "pit bulls". If they were tracking "German-type breeds" and included German Shepherds, Rotties and Dobermans, and enumerated the pit "types" independently you might get different numbers. They then roll in a bunch of cross-breeds to get the final number. You might also keep in mind that a higher propensity for a dog breed to "kill" doesn't necessarily make it significantly more likely that any individual member of that breed will "kill". Like, if, according to the CDC there are 118 pit-type and pit-cross related deaths over 20 years across the US - you might say that pit-type related deaths are actually pretty unlikely. Consider the number of pit-types and pit-type crosses there have been in the U.S. over the past 20 years. I mean, over a 10 year period some 800 people were killed by lightning. Dogs of any breed are not big killers in the U.S. Just to put it a bit in perspective.

VegasPrincess
05-12-2008, 11:11 AM
^^^

Stastically, Cocker Spaniels account for the most bites and maulings. I have to go to work but I will post stats when I come home.

I just think this thread is terrible. Do you know that pitbulls are the best drug sniffing dogs? They are. In fact, these dogs were the mascots of the army until the 1940s. The most decorated war dog is a pit bull. I could go on and on.

Also, my pit Leila is a HOSPICE dog. When my grandma was in the hospice, I visited with Leila all the time. (It was like an apartment style hospice, I could stay overnight and stuff and you could bring pets) All the residents wanted to play with Leila and so I bring her to the hospice once a week. The only thing she does that gets close to mauling people is climbing into their laps and licking them.

And, as a side note, I rescued my dog from neglectful owners, and she never bit anyone and she has had no formal training outside me.

twisterinAZ
05-12-2008, 11:12 AM
So... because pitbulls bite, they should be illegal. I can think of a lot of things that bite or scratch aggressively... they should all be banned? Did your Suki have training? Ever send her to obedience classes? Some animals (not just dogs) require more then love and affection to be socially acceptable... hell, some PEOPLE even.

Saying pitbulls should be illegal because they're aggressive, is like saying all germans should be illegal because hitler was bad?


That's the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard. Hitler killed millions of Jews , German Jews at that. Your post is offensive and is a ridiculous unsubstantiated comparison. How embarassing for you.

VegasPrincess
05-12-2008, 11:16 AM
^^^

Actually, she is right on. A breed of dog is no different than a race of people. I am actually shocked at the blatant racism shown to these dogs. It's all stereotyping, much as it is sterotyping to say that certain groups of people are dangerous and violent......

Jenny
05-12-2008, 11:17 AM
^^^
I don't know. I don't really think it is the same. I do think it might show a predisposition to rely excessively on stereotype though.

Perry
05-12-2008, 11:21 AM
Peanut_Butter, it sounds like you're using NILF (Nothing in Life is Free) for your puppy which is AWESOME! Making your dog do a trick before he gets anything - food, a door opened, pet, ect reinforces that you are in charge and all good things come from you. You're going to have a very sweet, obeident, well adjusted pet. :) The NILF method is 100% humane and very, very effective. I've seen it change "bad" dogs into good pets. All breeds benifit from that sort of training - and it keeps dominance seeking dogs in line.

VegasPrincess
05-12-2008, 11:23 AM
Here you go, from a reputable dog magazine that discusses ALL breeds of dogs. Some good explenations in here:

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/amerpit.html

With that, I skip off to work

ETS: before I met my first pitbull, you guys, I was scared of them too. Now I am in several pitbull play groups and many of my friends have them. I feel guilty that I was afraid of them, and angered because of the media spin put on them.

I hate to bust this out but it's true: Just as young African American men are portrayed in the media as angry, the American Pit Bull terrior is the dog equivalent of that. Now, I'm not comparing people to dogs, but I'm just using that as an example. This site is pretty open minded and we hate when our fellow human beings are judged through stereotype and not by their own actions; I am shocked that we don't extend the same curtosy to animals.

twisterinAZ
05-12-2008, 11:27 AM
^^^

Actually, she is right on. A breed of dog is no different than a race of people. I am actually shocked at the blatant racism shown to these dogs. It's all stereotyping, much as it is sterotyping to say that certain groups of people are dangerous and violent......

How is that right on comparing Hitler to pitbulls? That's insane since hitler was killing FELLOW GERMANS. I think it's offensive and trivializes the holocaust.

randompisces
05-12-2008, 12:02 PM
now you're arguing semantics...

You said (In so many words): A Dog Bit Someone; It was A Pitbull; Pitbulls Should Be Illegal.

I said: Hitler killed people; He Was A German; Germans Should Be Illegal

As you see the flaw in my 'way of thinking' (which is not how I feel, I'm merely making a point), how can you not see a flaw in your way of thinking?

Gypsy74
05-12-2008, 12:17 PM
What I don't get is why people are so quick to defend their pitbulls to prevent them from being taken away and put to sleep, but think nothing of killing and devouring cows, pigs and chickens.

Whoever posted the quote about how a nation is judged by how they treat their animals--- I don't think that's really relevant in this case because in the United states- animals are treated terribly.

BrunetteGoddess
05-12-2008, 12:18 PM
Those dogs are dangerous plain and simple. They bite . They are agressive . It is the nature of the breed. They often turn on thier owners. They attack little kids. I used to own one named Suki. She was a beautiful red brindle and we showered her with love and attention. She bit people ! She bit me. She bit a teenager that came to our door selling candy. She bit my boyfriend . We never mistreated her. We loved her but she was just aggresive by nature. And they are strong as fuck so they can do some serious damage. It is my personal opinion that they should be illegal because of thier potential to do serious harm. Remember that woman who was mauled to death in San Francisco ? There's a reason you can't have certaing types of animals as pets and I believe that pitbulls should be one of them. I'm so sick of hearing about children being mauled by these aggressive animals !

Honestly, it sounds like you did what you're not supposed to do when training a dog- too much affection. Read Sunday and PB's post about Cesar Millan's teachings. Too much affection affirms bad behavior sometimes.

And btw I am NOT telling you you were a bad owner, just pointing out a possibility.

MixedBabe88
05-12-2008, 12:25 PM
Yes she had training and we never mistreated her in any way.When my ex and I parted, I let him keep her because she scared me with her agression and it was nothing we did. Almost all of my experiences with pitbulls have been negative with one noteable exception but I keep my distance from this specific dog.

Again, I agree with the OP . I sure as shit pick up my Pom when I see one and I avoid those dogs. If I ever had kids I wouldn't risk letting them be around this agressive, unpredictable breed.

And whoever posted those statistics, where did they come from? Some lame save the pitbulls site ? I wonder how parents of mauled children feel about that silly little comic strip you posted >:(


So I am sure your solution would be to ban every dog? Because in your words, it bites. Okay, that's smart, considering EVERY SINGLE DOG CAN BITE.
Maybe you were just a shitty owner and don't realize it.

BrunetteGoddess
05-12-2008, 12:29 PM
Ok, ok, now I KNOW we are capable of having a disagreement around here without personal attacks. Let's remember that ;)

Lola Rose
05-12-2008, 12:34 PM
So I am sure your solution would be to ban every dog? Because in your words, it bites. Okay, that's smart, considering EVERY SINGLE DOG CAN BITE.
Maybe you were just a shitty owner and don't realize it.

right before I got to this post I was gonna compliment everyone for being as polite as we get in a passionate topic this long. :(

xdamage
05-12-2008, 01:00 PM
If you read the likes of Steve Pinker or Richard Dawkins, well the evidence is that our temperament is part of our genetic wiring. To some degree I'm seeing some of the "Blank Slate" myth that Pinker wrote a book about in this thread too, a popular modern belief that our (and animal) brains are just blank slates at birth, waiting to be filled with stuff. This is such a popular myth it dramatically affects our understanding of the entire world, I think for the worse.

Evolutionarily speaking, everything about us is evolved, including our thinking, feelings, temperament, etc. so that there is nothing politically incorrect about believing some animals (or some breeds of animals) have greater tendencies toward aggression then others, just like it's being shown that men with higher levels of testosterone are more likely to be aggressive then those with lower levels, we are biological, genetic creatures and significantly affected by that.

That said, we can "learn" from our environment too, and we do, but I sure don't believe all dogs are equally aggressive from birth. The evidence I've read just doesn't support it. I see that more as a popular myth, great for Disney films, but doesn't align with anything remotely like scientific research.

hardkandee
05-12-2008, 01:07 PM
Yes, some dogs can be aggressive.
Yes, some owners can exacerbate the issue.
Does an entire breed need to become blacklisted? No. All it does is force those with that breed to do everything undercover. Breeding goes underground and vet care is ignored. It becomes a vicious cycle and only gets worse.

As for those who do get attacked? Well, lots of people do not know how to act around strange dogs and I don't think it's being taught to children either.
Case in point: This morning at Starbucks a little girl sees a dog sitting outside waiting for it's owner and goes running to it and starts patting its nose (and not so nicely either). The mother didn't seem at all concerned that the child did this. The child was NOT nice and was damn lucky the dog (an adorable three-legged hound) was a service dog in training.