View Full Version : I fucking hate pitbulls.
kitana
05-12-2008, 01:28 PM
Yes, it's a rant. I'm sorry if it pisses some people off, but I absolutely have to vent.
I've always hated these damn things, and the people that defend them even more. If they're not dangerous, why is that every 4 months or so there's another story on the news about someone getting chewed half to death- and it always happens to be a pitbull? Why do they account for a third of all dog bite related fatalities?
Then I'm at the park the other day, walking down some stairs that lead away from the park, holding my puppy. A guy walks buy with a pitbull on the leash, and the damn thing growls, lunges for my dog, and ends up clamping onto my wrist. I shriek, trying to hold my dog away in my good arm the whole time, while this guy keeps trying to get this thing off me and it just won't let go.
Finally he has to hit it on the head before it lets go, and he pins it on the ground. I look at my wrist. Luckily it's not bleeding, but it's purple and bruised with welts and scary looking bite marks all over it, and it hurts bad.
I'm pissed, and start screaming about "you people and your fucking pitbulls!" And he says "It's got nothing to do with what he is!" Oh yeah, I guess it's just another fucking coincidence, like it always is.
I am so sick of these fucking things. I salute every city that's put a ban on them. I will never come within 10 feet of one of these fuckers again.
See it's willful ignorance like yours that causes people like me to have to hide our dogs in many places, get automatic judgment from people that don't know us (ie white trash, ghetto trash, drug dealer, scum of the earth, etc...), and in some places we are forced to loose or family members due to BSL.
I have volunteered at local shelters and zoos and vet's offices for well over 10yrs now and I have never once been bitten by ANY dog that is considered "dangerous" or "aggressive" by BSL standards. I have been bitten by cocker spaniels, golden retrievers, labs, chihuahuas, border collies, and one GSD, not to mentions the poms, the shit-tzu's, and the maltese.
Can you even describe a APBT? Can you pick the real APBT's out of these pics?
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Findthebull/findpitbull_v3.html
http://members.aol.com/radogz/find.html
http://www.mnp13.com/FindThePitBull/FindThePitBull.aspx
That "pit bull" was doing what it's genetics programmed it to do, go after your dog, NOT you. APBT's were bred for animal aggression, NOT human aggression; any human aggressive dog was culled ASAP (yes shot in the head, drowned, killed).
It's NOT the breed, it's the owners.
Only when idiots decided that the APBT was a "bad ass" did they corrupt the breed and mix in other breeds to make them bigger, they bred the WORST specimens of the breed and only cared about money, not about breeding the best of the best and finding them good loving RESPONSIBLE homes.
I am not trying to downplay your anger, just direct it to the real problem. It's not the dogs, it's the BYB's, the irresponsible owners, the assholes of society that are the real problems.
This is my APBT mix, and I would trust him over any other breed of dog around my daughter.
Bella21
05-12-2008, 01:28 PM
And he says "It's got nothing to do with what he is!"
I didn't read this entire thread because it's long and I know absolutely nothing about Pit Bulls. I can't even remember the last time I've seen one. However, I just have to say... What the hell kind of stupid response is that? Was that really his defense?! So... it has nothing to do with the dog and everything to do with him being a douchebag of an owner? What exactly was he trying to say?! Congrats, dude, you brought an animal to a park (aka, around kids) that you can't control. I hope you called someone and reported that dog. Regardless of the breed, you can't walk around with some animal with sharp teeth if it attacks people. I think the bottom line is responsible pet ownership.
kitana
05-12-2008, 01:30 PM
Elvia I hear you....my boyfriend had one, and for 6 months it was the sweetest thing. Then one day it violently attacked me out of nowhere. I'm so scared of fucking dogs now. I was afraid to be in my own fucking house after that. Of course he got rid of it. I am also sick of people fucking defending them. How come nobody ever gets attacked by a golden retriever or something....It also annoys me that they are the "cool" dogs to have, just because they are violent.
My daughter was attacked by a golden thanks. She was the 6th kid in that area to be attacked before animal control can out to euth the dog.
Personally 1 attack was 1 too many.
kitana
05-12-2008, 01:40 PM
Well, if you getting bitten by a dachsund is nothing at all compared to if that "nice" dog decides to tear your face off.
Tell that to the parents of the infant that was mauled and killed by a Pomeranian.
i.breathe.in
05-12-2008, 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by MarvelGirl View Post
I may be a monster but once a dog bites (and I consider your situation to be a bite) they don't live in my neighborhood anymore. Accidents happen, even if they require a little rat poison, bulk pork sausage, and a sling shot.
you make me want to vomit. you want to take it upon yourself and consider yourself above the law and kill an animal? Your worse then a dog that bites someone, your a murderer.
Lilah29
05-12-2008, 01:43 PM
As for those who do get attacked? Well, lots of people do not know how to act around strange dogs and I don't think it's being taught to children either.
Case in point: This morning at Starbucks a little girl sees a dog sitting outside waiting for it's owner and goes running to it and starts patting its nose (and not so nicely either). The mother didn't seem at all concerned that the child did this. The child was NOT nice and was damn lucky the dog (an adorable three-legged hound) was a service dog in training.
Yeah, that's so freaking stupid. I'm constantly intervening between children and dogs, even though when they're not my own. Like if there's a dog tied up outside a store, and a child races over - parent doesn't stop it - and starts patting her head, I'll take a minute to show him how to approach a dog he doesn't know, and how to pay attention to what the dog might be feeling about the situation. I think a lot of people think of animals as "things" that don't need consideration and don't have their own personalities. I can't count the number of times I've seen kids throwing things at dogs who are tied up outside too. And their parents acting as if nothing's wrong.
kitana
05-12-2008, 01:43 PM
I don't want to be rude, or sound like I'm harping on you at all, but I think you should have called the police. Any dog that lunges and grabs onto a person in a public area for no reason needs to be put down. That's not acceptable, and yes it is the owner's fault, but that dog is already ruined.
Even if it isn't gushing blood or requiring stitches, it's an attack. People have the right to go outside without fearing some strange dog attacking them because they "looked at it wrong", or some such crap. Our right to not be mauled trumps their right to even exist. I don't care how that sounds, it's true.
I may be a monster but once a dog bites (and I consider your situation to be a bite) they don't live in my neighborhood anymore. Accidents happen, even if they require a little rat poison, bulk pork sausage, and a sling shot.
You have to realize that the dog was NOT going after her, it was going after her DOG.
HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!!!
And you are actually advocating animal abuse by poisoning a animal?! What a cunty thing to do, karma is a bitch, even more than your ideas.>:(
MarvelGirl
05-12-2008, 01:46 PM
I don't mind being called a psychopath. I will absolute murder an animal to protect my son, I'll murder people to protect him too without even flinching. No problem.
I actually grew up in a rural area where dogs were important and useful to their owners. They had a job, and value. My family owned a kennel, and we raised dogs. I had never seen a dog abused or mistreated in my entire childhood, and the only biting incidents I ever heard of involved intruders.
Then I moved to the city...Where most dog owners shouldn't be allowed to own a fish. I've seen animals left in backyards to starve, I saw one that had been thrown down a sewer to die as a puppy. Just for shits and giggles I guess. I've saved these animals. It's illegal yes, to break into someone's backyard and steal their starving rottweiler, but I do it. I wonder if I'm a monster for that? ::)
But, 4 years ago I lived in a nice little neighborhood, the houses were arranged in a u shape with a big grassy area in the center where the neighborhood kids played. One day, one of the neighbors brought home a dog, a german shepard. They had a fenced off area in their yard and that's where they kept him. This dog hated children. Any time the kids were outside he would be barking furiously, foaming at the mouth, biting the fence, and trying to dig under it. And before someone says it was the kids' fault, no it wasn't I was ALWAYS out there with them, they were terrified of that dog and they stayed far away from it.
These people lived in the house immediately next to mine, and the sidewalk to our mailbox went right by their fence. About two weeks after this dog showed up, my son and I were walking to get the mail. My neighbor told me I should stay farther away from the fence because I was upsetting the dog. I told her I was on the sidewalk. She said, yes, but it upsets him and if he gets out he WILL bite. I said, really how do you know, has he bit before?
She then proceeded to tell me how they were hiding the dog for her sister because it had mauled a 3 year old girl in their apartment complex. Her sister had told the parents that she had the dog put down. Once they moved into a new place they would be taking it back.
Bottomline, if a pedophile is wandering around my neighborhood, I'm taking him out. Because the revelation that he had a horrible childhood and it's not his fault will not unrape my son.
Just like finding out a dog was abused will not unmaul my son.
I don't blame any breed though, and it is the owners fault, absolutely. Unfortunately, the owner is not the one who will chase you down the street and rip your face off.
kitana
05-12-2008, 01:51 PM
Those dogs are dangerous plain and simple. They bite . They are agressive . It is the nature of the breed. They often turn on thier owners. They attack little kids. I used to own one named Suki. She was a beautiful red brindle and we showered her with love and attention. She bit people ! She bit me. She bit a teenager that came to our door selling candy. She bit my boyfriend . We never mistreated her. We loved her but she was just aggresive by nature. And they are strong as fuck so they can do some serious damage. It is my personal opinion that they should be illegal because of thier potential to do serious harm. Remember that woman who was mauled to death in San Francisco ? There's a reason you can't have certaing types of animals as pets and I believe that pitbulls should be one of them. I'm so sick of hearing about children being mauled by these aggressive animals !
It was YOUR fault the dog bit people, not the dog's fault.
That woman in San Fran was not the victim of a pit bull, they were Tosa's that attacked her. If you are going to throw in a pit bull attack story at least make sure you got the correct breed damnit!
What about Sgt Stubby? What about Hellen Keller's seeing eye dog? What about Petie from the Lil Rascals?
They were ALL American Pit Bull Terriers.
kitana
05-12-2008, 01:57 PM
I don't mind being called a psychopath. I will absolute murder an animal to protect my son, I'll murder people to protect him too without even flinching. No problem.
I actually grew up in a rural area where dogs were important and useful to their owners. They had a job, and value. My family owned a kennel, and we raised dogs. I had never seen a dog abused or mistreated in my entire childhood, and the only biting incidents I ever heard of involved intruders.
Then I moved to the city...Where most dog owners shouldn't be allowed to own a fish. I've seen animals left in backyards to starve, I saw one that had been thrown down a sewer to die as a puppy. Just for shits and giggles I guess. I've saved these animals. It's illegal yes, to break into someone's backyard and steal their starving rottweiler, but I do it. I wonder if I'm a monster for that? ::)
But, 4 years ago I lived in a nice little neighborhood, the houses were arranged in a u shape with a big grassy area in the center where the neighborhood kids played. One day, one of the neighbors brought home a dog, a german shepard. They had a fenced off area in their yard and that's where they kept him. This dog hated children. Any time the kids were outside he would be barking furiously, foaming at the mouth, biting the fence, and trying to dig under it. And before someone says it was the kids' fault, no it wasn't I was ALWAYS out there with them, they were terrified of that dog and they stayed far away from it.
These people lived in the house immediately next to mine, and the sidewalk to our mailbox went right by their fence. About two weeks after this dog showed up, my son and I were walking to get the mail. My neighbor told me I should stay farther away from the fence because I was upsetting the dog. I told her I was on the sidewalk. She said, yes, but it upsets him and if he gets out he WILL bite. I said, really how do you know, has he bit before?
She then proceeded to tell me how they were hiding the dog for her sister because it had mauled a 3 year old girl in their apartment complex. Her sister had told the parents that she had the dog put down. Once they moved into a new place they would be taking it back.
Bottomline, if a pedophile is wandering around my neighborhood, I'm taking him out. Because the revelation that he had a horrible childhood and it's not his fault will not unrape my son.
Just like finding out a dog was abused will not unmaul my son.
I don't blame any breed though, and it is the owners fault, absolutely. Unfortunately, the owner is not the one who will chase you down the street and rip your face off.
And yet you don't feel ANY compassion for the animals that ended up this way due to HUMANS?
How cold and vile.....:'(
Bella21
05-12-2008, 02:04 PM
Okay, I'm just going to throw a thought out here... what about personality? Every species has a sort of personality, right? Breeds? Ferrets are illegal here. Apparently, the huge uproar is about CA's chicken population, but people also say because they're viscious little animals that bite. I have a ferret and she's a little shithead sometimes but she's never bitten a stranger in her life (and rarely myself... once when I got in the way of her food when she was a baby). But, I know a girl who apparently has ferrets from hell who will attack the nearest human.
What I'm trying to say is that each specific animal has a unique personality and each type of animal has certain characteristics that are common to that type of animal. With Pit Bulls, they may be a more aggressive breed of dog... but not every Pit Bull will be born (my philosophical insight there) with that personality. On top of that, it depends on the owner. It's putting a lot of trust into the owner (humanity, oh boy) to be able to deal with that. Isn't that the real problem here? Some animals require more responsibility or dedication (or whatever), right? Shoot, and I think most of us on here agree that you should be required to pass a test to have CHILDREN.
Edit: To the ferret thing, I'd like to add that while I've let children handle her, I think that was a stupid thing to do. I don't let people handle her without warning anymore, just to be sure, even though she's never done anything.
hardkandee
05-12-2008, 02:09 PM
What I'm trying to say is that each specific animal has a unique personality and each type of animal has certain characteristics that are common to that type of animal. With Pit Bulls, they may be a more aggressive breed of dog... but not every Pit Bull will be born (my philosophical insight there) with that personality. On top of that, it depends on the owner. It's putting a lot of trust into the owner (humanity, oh boy) to be able to deal with that. Isn't that the real problem here? Some animals require more responsibility or dedication (or whatever), right? Shoot, and I think most of us on here agree that you should be required to pass a test to have CHILDREN.
Ding ding ding!
Lol @ trust in humanity.
youngBUTbanking
05-12-2008, 02:19 PM
Those dogs are dangerous plain and simple. They bite . They are agressive . It is the nature of the breed. They often turn on thier owners. They attack little kids. I used to own one named Suki. She was a beautiful red brindle and we showered her with love and attention. She bit people ! She bit me. She bit a teenager that came to our door selling candy. She bit my boyfriend . We never mistreated her. We loved her but she was just aggresive by nature. And they are strong as fuck so they can do some serious damage. It is my personal opinion that they should be illegal because of thier potential to do serious harm. Remember that woman who was mauled to death in San Francisco ? There's a reason you can't have certaing types of animals as pets and I believe that pitbulls should be one of them. I'm so sick of hearing about children being mauled by these aggressive animals !
LOL @ "they turn on their owners/children"
that is the biggest load of shit..im sorry
randompisces
05-12-2008, 02:22 PM
What I'm trying to say is that each specific animal has a unique personality and each type of animal has certain characteristics that are common to that type of animal. With Pit Bulls, they may be a more aggressive breed of dog... but not every Pit Bull will be born (my philosophical insight there) with that personality. On top of that, it depends on the owner. It's putting a lot of trust into the owner (humanity, oh boy) to be able to deal with that. Isn't that the real problem here? Some animals require more responsibility or dedication (or whatever), right?
Winner.
Oh humanity... how we always seem to fall short, then like to pass the blame.
VegasPrincess
05-12-2008, 02:37 PM
It was YOUR fault the dog bit people, not the dog's fault
That woman in San Fran was not the victim of a pit bull, they were that attacked her. If you are going to throw in a pit bull attack story at least make sure you got the correct breed damnit!
What about Sgt Stubby? What about Hellen Keller's seeing eye dog? What about Petie from the Lil Rascals?
They were ALL American Pit Bull Terriers.
I read all about this is The Dog Whispers book, btw he tried to save those PRESA CARINOS from being killed.
Two people in a small apartment adopted two fighting dogs. They were PRESA CARINOS, not American Pit Bull Terriers.... Not that it is anything wrong with being a PRESA!! The PRESAS in question came straight from a dog fighting ring to live in a S.F city apartment... again, that is the fault of the OWNERs.
I just love how every dog that bites is automatically a pitbull.If we were talking about different races of PEOPLE here, this thread wouldn't have gone down this way.
MrChristopher
05-12-2008, 02:51 PM
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html
I got the APBT on the first try. I'm rather pleased with myself.
pheno
05-12-2008, 02:58 PM
Wow... this is a really passionate subject.
To be honest, I'm afraid of dogs. It doesn't matter the size or breed, they all scare me. Every dog I've met jumped on me, tried to eat my things, barked uncontrollably, or nipped and snapped. I had people teach me how to approach and pet a dog because I was scared that I was doing something to make these pets like this.
Then I felt kind of bad for the animals. Dogs shouldn't bark constantly. That's like a sign of distress or alarm, I think? They shouldn't feel so threatened by... well, everything that they need to defend their territory all the time. That has to be exhausting for them.
My husband introduced me to Cesar Milan and I think he's wonderful. I've heard negative things about him, but over all what he says makes so much sense. I realized how owners really don't know what to do with dogs and that's unfortunate. I had no idea that tail wagging and all that isn't always happy to see you dog, that it can be a stressed out animal. I'm sure the owners don't know either.
Still, so many people seem to treat their pets like idealized children or a significant other. Dogs aren't meant to live like that and people shouldn't do it for their own well being. I realized that's what a lot of the pet owners I knew did. Some really shouldn't have had a dog... or any animal for that matter. It's a living creature, not a toy or an object. If you can't keep plants alive... maybe you need to think about animal ownership?
I don't think any dog is destined to be a 'bad' dog, but I still get nervous around little dogs and scared around the big ones. However, now it's not because I think the dog is naturally dangerous but because I'm pretty sure the owner has no idea what being an owner really means.
VegasPrincess
05-12-2008, 03:00 PM
^^^
You're in the minority. Anybody who is hating on pits, I dare you, take thatt quiz and see if you can pick the pit. Don't even report back !! Just for yourself.
ALSO
To hate pitbulls is to hate strippers. I HAS STRIPPER PITBULL!!!!
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/3581/leila2os4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
^^^
Now seriously. Does that look like a monster to you?
xdamage
05-12-2008, 03:31 PM
I don't hate any animals. I don't understand or relate to hating animals, no matter how aggressive they are. That is what the are.
But I don't think anyone questions that some animals are less domesticable then others. There are many animals we people don't take as pets because we wouldn't feel safe. There are others that are questionably safe, but we know are riskier to keep in the home then the pets we buy at PetCo Inc.
Just because an animal is a type of "dog" does not necessarily tell us anything about it's suitability as a house pet.
For example, few people try to make wolves into house pets, even though they are genetically very close to other domesticated dogs.
Few people try to make bobcats into house pets, even though they are closely related to domesticated cats.
Yes, a pit bull is "dog", but it's 100% clear to me that it could be some animals are more or less domesticated, some more or less likely to attack, yep, even though those that we label as "dogs", are not necessarily all equally as domesticated.
I think the problem is in the extremes. Both extremes. On the one hand, the extreme view that all pit bulls are very dangerous. On the other hand, the naive view that statistically they are not as likely to attack people.
P.s., As an aside, I'd be fine with the idea of a law that gives the courts more leeway to award larger damages against owners of some pets versus others. For example, if you want to keep a poisonous snake as a pet, that is cool, but if it gets out and bites someone your damages as an owner could be greater because you required your neighbors share the risk. Same could be said of owning certain breeds of dogs, like PitBulls. If the statistics show greater incidents of attacks on humans, then I'm fine with the courts being allowed greater leniency in awarding damages should the pit bull harm a neighbor.
Sunshine73
05-12-2008, 04:24 PM
To the OP...I hope you are feeling better. I've been attacked by a dog before and it is scary.
I love my turtle. And my hermit crab. And any slow-moving animal LOL!
Jeanette
05-12-2008, 04:25 PM
I really dislike people that feel the need to use stereotypes constantly, the kind of people that love to lump whole races and breeds together. Sure we all have our own ideas, and use caution based on past experiences, but people that stereotype and hate with such surety that they're opinion is the only acceptable one just amaze me. Some of the comments made in this thread amaze me.
People that just hate, hate, hate, and stereotype, and think they are better than everyone else, that are intolerant and unknowledgeable, but not open to hearing and learning, closed-minded, judgmental people, I just don't get. I see racists, homophobes, sexists, christian conservative haters of strippers, and people that want breed specific bans to be of like minds. Are we all drug addicted alcoholic prostitutes just because this job draws a lot of girls who abuse drugs/alcohol/give extras and a lot of people like to play into this popular stereotype? No.
I was in court today because of something that happened 4 years ago. I was amazed that one of the witnesses of the incident was more concerned about my gate being open than the dramatic incident that was occurring between two people because I had two pit bulls. When asked if she had ever seen my boyfriend at the time or I she said no, but knew there were two pit bulls living in our home(people only notice the negatively classified breed not the responsible owners). Someone is screaming hysterically and being assaulted by another person and all she can think of is that she is scared of my dogs, who have never done anything to anyone, and don't even bark, getting out onto the street. Something is wrong with that situation. This is what media hysteria and stereotyping cause. Fear mongers need to stop. People need to get their priorities straight. (bit of a rant on my part due to a stressful day)
High_Heel_Lover
05-12-2008, 04:27 PM
Animal is an animal. I love animals with a passion but when my neighbors dog passed away I actually got relieved, I have small kids and this dog had never attacked anyone and one day he bit me, pretty bad and I was pregnant and his pull tore a muscle in the abdominal area causing much pain and after the ER and all that my neighbor gave me $50 for the co pay of the hosp visit but I have scars for the rest of my life.
So I'm glad he's gone cause if it's me a grown woman imagen a 2 yr old? oh God no.
I have a big dog and he's a docile dog but has pitt in him and if he ever turns on my kids that is it.
People need to vent out their frustration and others will educate, I still think and animal is an animal and no matter what they can have a moment and turn but that is a risk we must take to accept them part of society as a pet.
youngBUTbanking
05-12-2008, 04:41 PM
this is my new "monster".....
http://fullmoonkennel.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/redwhitecollarfront41308.jpg
Bella21
05-12-2008, 05:00 PM
^Evil tripod.com!! :)
Hello_Kitty27
05-12-2008, 05:38 PM
Dear OP: Thankfully you're OK and it wasn't worse. I would have immediately reported it. I really don't like pits at all. I wouldn't really care if they got banned entirely.
And yanno, this is a HUGE generalization and I realize that ... but when I hear people going hogwild defending pits, I kinda think of all the gang shootings I see on the news, where the idiot parent is on TV saying "I don't know why they would shoot my son, he was a good boy and wasn't involved in gangs" when I know damn well they were involved in gangs. And you know what, I don't feel bad if they WERE involved in gangs and they were subsequently killed for it. One less dumbass in the world (and before you bash me, just know that a very close family friend was killed this way, and yes he was involved in gangs and yes, deep down inside the mother knew). So when these dogs attack and kill (or near kill) someone, I don't feel bad when the dog has to be put down.
I realize it's not the same thing, but when people start going off on tangents like "Oh MY dog would never do that" etc etc ....that's what I think of.
Lilah29
05-12-2008, 05:39 PM
I put this on the other pitbull thread, but it's important to see how even dogs who have been treated horribly and forced to fight can be rehabilitated with proper care.
(AP) -- His back resting comfortably against her chest, Hector nestles his massive canine head into Leslie Nuccio's shoulder, high-fiving pit bull paws against human hands.
The big dog -- 52 pounds -- is social, people-focused, happy now, it seems, wearing a rhinestone collar in his new home in sunny California.
But as Hector sits up, deep scars stand out on his chest, and his eyes are imploring.
Hector ought to be dead, Nuccio knows -- killed in a staged fight, executed for not winning or euthanized by those who see pit bulls seized in busts as "kennel trash," unsuited to any kind of normal life.
Instead, Hector is learning how to be a pet....
more... http://muttstuff.blogspot.com/2008/01/cnn-article-from-fighters-to-friends.html
And to the idiot who thinks poisoning dogs is a good idea, even though I'm certain there's an animal control in your area that takes animal aggression seriously...you surely cannot complain when someone decides to take out their own brand of vigilante justice on you or your child or someone you love. You might get bashed over the head or have your home burned down because someone finds you threatening or unpleasant in some way. It's the world you're helping to create.
Lysondra
05-12-2008, 06:06 PM
I saw all six of these pages coming a mile away. Nobody is even going to agree, see each others side or take on someone else's (im)moral views. So we might as well...stop.
Peanut_Butter
05-12-2008, 06:07 PM
^ True, Lys. But if we can educate just one person, then this thread won't have been for nothing, useless bickering.
Because what it comes down to is uneducated or misinformed people. From BOTH sides of the argument.
Lysondra
05-12-2008, 06:08 PM
^You can lead a person to information but you can't make them think.
iambonbon05
05-12-2008, 06:15 PM
why is that every 4 months or so there's another story on the news about someone getting chewed half to death- and it always happens to be a pitbull? Why do they account for a third of all dog bite related fatalities?
Because the breed is much more likely to be mentioned if it's a pit bull. If a lab or a mutt did it, you'd hear "dog bites child". If it's a pit, you can bet the headlines will say "VICIOUS PIT BULL MAULS CHILD"
That and a lot of people that own them are trying to get a macho dog to compensate for their small penis or something and are idiots and have no business owning any animal, let alone a powerful one.
I've had a pit go for my dog too but I could tell from a mile away that the owner was an idiot. I still feel anger for the owner, not the dog.
Breed specific legislation is awful. First of all, "pit bull" is not one breed. There are American Pit Bull Terriers, Staffordshire Terriers, Bull Terriers, American Bulldogs, etc etc. So anything that looks anything like one could get banned. It's not specific enough.
Then another dog bites someone and gets them banned too. Should beagles be banned because one bit me when I was little?
I would love to have a doberman but unfortunately even owning one of them makes it harder to find a place to live and insure it.
Elvia
05-12-2008, 07:11 PM
I don't know. When I hear about dangerous dogs being "rehabilitated," I immediately think of this horrible story I read from the paper about this pit that chewed up someone's face, then was supposedly rehabilitated and placed in a new home...with a 2 year old girl, who it then attacked.
And you have to wonder...what kind of parent takes a chance on a dog with such a history when they have a SMALL CHILD in the house? Rehabilitated my ass, if I had a two year old there's no way in hell anything that had chewed up someone's face is EVER getting within 20 feet my children.
So I put a note up on my buildings bulletin board warning about an aggressive dog in the neighborhood (we have a lot of people with small dogs in this building) And someone tore it down, ripped it up, and left a nasty note about "pitbull hating." Jesus christ, there was NO RANT in that note. All I said was it was an aggressive dog, described what it looked like and (as part of the description) that is was a pitbull, described what had happened to me and that it seemed to be going after my dog.
This is what pisses me off about fanatical pitbull defenders- the way they have treated me since this happened. I've been blamed for it in every way possible, told that I couldn't possibly expect to walk through a goddamn park holding my own small puppy without expecting to be attacked, and now they won't even stand to let me put a note up to warn other people who own small dogs that there is ONE aggressive pitbull in the neighborhood. Clearly, so many of these people are more concerned with creating and maintaining a sterling reputation for the breed than they are with anyone's safety.
Peanut_Butter
05-12-2008, 07:48 PM
[quote=Elvia;1541533]I don't know. When I hear about dangerous dogs being "rehabilitated," I immediately think of this horrible story I read from the paper about this pit that chewed up someone's face, then was supposedly rehabilitated and placed in a new home...with a 2 year old girl, who it then attacked.
And you have to wonder...what kind of parent takes a chance on a dog with such a history when they have a SMALL CHILD in the house? Rehabilitated my ass, if I had a two year old there's no way in hell anything that had chewed up someone's face is EVER getting within 20 feet my children.
What people fail to realize is that yu cant just "rehabilitate"a dog, expect it to be done and ovrer with and be docile for ever with no follow through. This dog was probably placed with an owner who had no experience or knowledge with how to deal with a formerly agressive animal, she probably didnt follow through with him, and didnt care for him properly, so he reverted back to his old ways. Dog training or rehab isnt a one time fix all. It requires lifelong work. As any dog does.
First of all, it is extremely hard to pick a pit bull out of a line up. American bulldogs and boxers look quite similar.
Second, the reason that those attacks or bites get posted on the news is well, because of people like you. People are afraid of pits and it is "sensational" to put the bites on the news. All dogs bite. In fact, the most common offender is the cocker spaniel.
Third, I can't believe you posted an I hate pit bulls thread. Condemning a dog by their breed is the dog equivalent of racism. I don't think you would post a I hate xyz race thread.
Fourth, I have two pit bulls and they are the sweetest dogs ever. One in fact is a hospice dog. She brings joy to the elderly every week.
Thats exactly what I was trying to say. When people say that "hate" a specific breed, its the same as hating a specific race. EVERYONE and EVERYTHING (animals) have its good AND its bad.
Its sad that a lot of people just dont get it.
Elvia
05-12-2008, 08:01 PM
Ok...it seems REALLY absurd to equate making distinctions between different animals with judging people based on their ethnicity. Some animals are more domesticable than others. Some types of animals are more dangerous than others. Is it prejudice to say a shark is dangerous? Is it prejudice to say a warthog is dangerous? Of course not. Different breeds have different tendencies. Pugs tend to like children, whereas Pekingese tend not to, etc. Whether you believe it or not, it is perfectly reasonable to suggest that certain breeds are more or less prone to aggression than others.
Peanut_Butter
05-12-2008, 08:05 PM
I agree that some breeds are more prone to aggression than others. Pits, Chows, Dalmations....There are many.
BUT. A human can either nuture the aggression and bring it out, or suppress the aggerssive traits and nuture other, more gentle traits. It's still in the owners control as to how they care for their dog.
^^^ It IS a bit different but not by much. Lumping one breed of dog into "dangerous", "deadly" and "should-be-illegal" is a bit much considering there is proof that these dogs ARE great animals.
Yes, they can be dangerous if they are in the wrong hands. ANY large dog can be deadly if in the hands of irresponsible owners. But pitbulls have been the target of media scrutiny and they will always make headlines - ALWAYS for negative reasons because thats what people want to hear. They dont want to hear about the "amaing pit" that saved lives, or works with children. Why? because so many people hate and fear them. The poor breed has been labeled and theres pretty much nothing anyone can say or do to even sway a person's opinion.
:(
jaizaine
05-12-2008, 10:27 PM
I don't mind being called a psychopath. I will absolute murder an animal to protect my son, I'll murder people to protect him too without even flinching. No problem.
I actually grew up in a rural area where dogs were important and useful to their owners. They had a job, and value. My family owned a kennel, and we raised dogs. I had never seen a dog abused or mistreated in my entire childhood, and the only biting incidents I ever heard of involved intruders.
Then I moved to the city...Where most dog owners shouldn't be allowed to own a fish. I've seen animals left in backyards to starve, I saw one that had been thrown down a sewer to die as a puppy. Just for shits and giggles I guess. I've saved these animals. It's illegal yes, to break into someone's backyard and steal their starving rottweiler, but I do it. I wonder if I'm a monster for that? ::)
But, 4 years ago I lived in a nice little neighborhood, the houses were arranged in a u shape with a big grassy area in the center where the neighborhood kids played. One day, one of the neighbors brought home a dog, a german shepard. They had a fenced off area in their yard and that's where they kept him. This dog hated children. Any time the kids were outside he would be barking furiously, foaming at the mouth, biting the fence, and trying to dig under it. And before someone says it was the kids' fault, no it wasn't I was ALWAYS out there with them, they were terrified of that dog and they stayed far away from it.
These people lived in the house immediately next to mine, and the sidewalk to our mailbox went right by their fence. About two weeks after this dog showed up, my son and I were walking to get the mail. My neighbor told me I should stay farther away from the fence because I was upsetting the dog. I told her I was on the sidewalk. She said, yes, but it upsets him and if he gets out he WILL bite. I said, really how do you know, has he bit before?
She then proceeded to tell me how they were hiding the dog for her sister because it had mauled a 3 year old girl in their apartment complex. Her sister had told the parents that she had the dog put down. Once they moved into a new place they would be taking it back.
Bottomline, if a pedophile is wandering around my neighborhood, I'm taking him out. Because the revelation that he had a horrible childhood and it's not his fault will not unrape my son.
Just like finding out a dog was abused will not unmaul my son.
I don't blame any breed though, and it is the owners fault, absolutely. Unfortunately, the owner is not the one who will chase you down the street and rip your face off.
what a screwed up philosophy on life. Do u teach your son these things such as poisoning animals?
Hope they dont allow inmates to access SW if u end up carrying out any of these ramblings.
la429
05-12-2008, 11:03 PM
This is what pisses me off about fanatical pitbull defenders- the way they have treated me since this happened. I've been blamed for it in every way possible, told that I couldn't possibly expect to walk through a goddamn park holding my own small puppy without expecting to be attacked, and now they won't even stand to let me put a note up to warn other people who own small dogs that there is ONE aggressive pitbull in the neighborhood. Clearly, so many of these people are more concerned with creating and maintaining a sterling reputation for the breed than they are with anyone's safety.
I was surprised to see how big this thread is getting but I just wanted to say something. I would consider myself to be a PitBull lover and owner and I just wanted to say not all of us feel the same way. I've been attacked twice once by a Golden Retriever which resulted in having a plastic surgeon for the holes in my face and second by a German Shepherd/Pitbull mix. Consequently I am suspicious of all dogs and trust Pitbulls even less. Like I said before it's a shame that bad handlers kill practically a whole blood line for raising the dogs for power and money. I believe Pitbulls are naturally capable of being aggressive but with proper handling can be trusted among humans and other animals. I think animals that attack or have been involved with animal fighting can not be rehabilitated fully and should be put out of their misery. Why take a risk? Maybe that's a little drastic but I don't believe domesticated animals can turn back after they attack.
Lilah29
05-12-2008, 11:58 PM
I think animals that attack or have been involved with animal fighting can not be rehabilitated fully and should be put out of their misery.
I wouldn't make that blanket statement, and I ask you to read the article I linked to a few posts above. Some of those dogs didn't want to fight, if anything were doing it as self-defense, and were tested to be nonaggressive.
That's like saying every boy who gets molested will turn into a child molester himself (some really will), without first seeing how the abuse affected him. Only one of those Vick dogs had to get put down as too miserable to live any kind of decent life.
kitana
05-13-2008, 12:25 AM
I read all about this is The Dog Whispers book, btw he tried to save those PRESA CARINOS from being killed.
Two people in a small apartment adopted two fighting dogs. They were PRESA CARINOS, not American Pit Bull Terriers.... Not that it is anything wrong with being a PRESA!! The PRESAS in question came straight from a dog fighting ring to live in a S.F city apartment... again, that is the fault of the OWNERs.
I just love how every dog that bites is automatically a pitbull.If we were talking about different races of PEOPLE here, this thread wouldn't have gone down this way.
My bad, I couldn't remember if they were Presa's or Tosa's. I just knew they weren't pittys.
kitana
05-13-2008, 12:29 AM
P.s., As an aside, I'd be fine with the idea of a law that gives the courts more leeway to award larger damages against owners of some pets versus others. For example, if you want to keep a poisonous snake as a pet, that is cool, but if it gets out and bites someone your damages as an owner could be greater because you required your neighbors share the risk. Same could be said of owning certain breeds of dogs, like PitBulls. If the statistics show greater incidents of attacks on humans, then I'm fine with the courts being allowed greater leniency in awarding damages should the pit bull harm a neighbor.
The problem with that is that ANY dog that is a med-lg breed, shorter hair, wide head, and either brindle or black is automatically labeled as a pit bull, never mind the fact that most "reported pit bull attacks" are not even pure bred APBT. In fact I can remember one attack where the lady claimed it was a pit bull, and it turned out to be a retired K-9 GSD. (how you can confuse a shepherd type dog with a bulldog type dog is beyond me!)
Jenny
05-13-2008, 12:59 AM
So I put a note up on my buildings bulletin board warning about an aggressive dog in the neighborhood (we have a lot of people with small dogs in this building) And someone tore it down, ripped it up, and left a nasty note about "pitbull hating." Jesus christ, there was NO RANT in that note. All I said was it was an aggressive dog, described what it looked like and (as part of the description) that is was a pitbull, described what had happened to me and that it seemed to be going after my dog.
This is what pisses me off about fanatical pitbull defenders- the way they have treated me since this happened. I've been blamed for it in every way possible, told that I couldn't possibly expect to walk through a goddamn park holding my own small puppy without expecting to be attacked, and now they won't even stand to let me put a note up to warn other people who own small dogs that there is ONE aggressive pitbull in the neighborhood. Clearly, so many of these people are more concerned with creating and maintaining a sterling reputation for the breed than they are with anyone's safety.
Well this strikes me as a little odd. I mean, you claim that you approach the "pitbull" issue neutrally; however, the first thing you did was scream at the guy for owning a pitbull, and when you came here.... well, the title speaks for itself. Maybe the issues with "fanatical pitbull defenders" is arising because you are not as neutral as you think you are being. I mean you say you merely identified the dog as a pitbull as part of a general description; maybe your true feelings are showing through more than you think, and that is why they are reacting defensively. People don't tend to be even tempered when other people rejoice in the threatened extermination of their beloved family pet.
Accidents and confrontations sometimes happen between dogs. That is an unfortunate fact of owning a dog. Dogs have their own ways of dealing with each other. This will not be limited to pitbulls. If we could get rid of dog aggression by getting rid of pitbulls, I might be for it. This, however, is not the case, particularly with dog/dog aggression.
hyzenthflay
05-13-2008, 01:01 AM
I was attacked by one when selling cookies as a small kid. Luckily, I was so young that my mom was driving me and I only ended up with a small puncture wound.
My bf defends them to the death, but she had to have one of hers put down b/c it wouldn't stop attacking the other. wtf?
PS If chihuahuas were bigger, it'd be them on the line:p those fuckers are mean as hell!
kitana
05-13-2008, 01:03 AM
Ok...it seems REALLY absurd to equate making distinctions between different animals with judging people based on their ethnicity. Some animals are more domesticable than others. Some types of animals are more dangerous than others. Is it prejudice to say a shark is dangerous? Is it prejudice to say a warthog is dangerous? Of course not. Different breeds have different tendencies. Pugs tend to like children, whereas Pekingese tend not to, etc. Whether you believe it or not, it is perfectly reasonable to suggest that certain breeds are more or less prone to aggression than others.
Yes the APBT was bred for ANIMAL AGGRESSION; but NEVER ever HUMAN AGGRESSION. The two do NOT equate, nor does one mean the other will happen.
You have to know the FULL history of the breed to know why we as APBT owners feel no fear from our furkiddos.
Yes they were bred to fight bears, boars, bulls and kill other dogs; but they were also bred to watch children, do ANYTHING their owner asked of them, and never to bite humans. Dog fighters of old couldn't take a chance on their dog biting a human in the pit (it was a DQ and the dog was killed), since they would have to lay hands on the dogs to break them up. Yes they were bred to have strong bite, and be muscular, but they were also bred to never give up, never give in, always do whatever they had to do to please their owners, to love them unconditionally, and give their families their whole hearts.
There is not a better family pet than a well bred, well trained, socialized American Pit Bull Terrier. My great-grandmother had a APBT when she was a child and her father cried for weeks when the dog passed of old age. She jumped for joy and fell in love with my old APBT Cuervo (who was an OFRN and the same bloodline she had as a child), and sat in the floor with his head in her lap for hours. My parents were worried, since they bought what the media was selling hook line and sinker, but she told them to hush, and gave him the love he gave her. This breed was THE family dog at the turn of the century; Hellen Keller, presidents, affluent households all owned APBT. In fact, the whole time filming the show The Lil Rascals, there was not ONE bite from Petey, while the same can NOT be said for Lassie on that set.
The same things that make us love and adore this breed, make everyone fear them. They will not give up, they do anything asked, they have heart and will keep going, they are strong and can and do excel at ANYTHING, from agility, to weight pull, dock dogs, S&R, drug detection, canine police work, Schutzhund, therapy, seeing eye dog, and yes sadly guard work and human attacks.
I say sadly, since pittys naturally make HORRIBLE guard dogs, lol. I bet damn near anything, that if someone broke into my home right now, Pugsley would just look at them, come running over and fall belly up at their feet for rubbing and kisses. If they brought cookies, he would show them where ALL the china, jewelry and cash is hidden, lol! ;)
I have no worries about Pugsley, since we do NILF, he has MORE than enough exercise, and he goes monthly for a refresher weekend at a training/boarding faculty to remind him of his manners and to work on new ones, plus it gives him a full weekend of no stop running and playing with other "dangerous dogs" (you know, GSD, dobes, rottens, etc...) and to work on his agility training and his therapy training.
He is 2yrs old, has been neutered, and has his CGC cert and almost has his therapy cert. He is also very motivated and I have been asked if I thought about training him for SNR or drug detection.
I also want to add, that when pit fighting became illegal in the late 70's, dogmen sold out quite a bit of their stock to anyone with cash. Shortly after that, the Razor's Edge line came out and those dogs are mixed bred with mastiff's/Am Bulls/English Bulls/Tosa's/Corso's/Neo mastiff/etc... to make them bigger and meaner looking. The problem with that is that now you mix bloodlines that were not bred for lack of human aggression, and make them more powerful, then sell these new dogs to whomever has the most cash; nevermind if they are going to try and fight the dog, train it to attack any and all humans, do no training at all, abuse it, etc...
It's the BYB's that breed substandard dogs to whoever and for whatever they want. You will NOT find a well bred APBT in the middle of ANY dog attack, it just will NOT happen. True APBT lovers/breeders only breed once a year (per bitch), and have a waiting list of up to years before they breed, they also have a contract that rivals most human adoption agencies, and will always take a dog back home no questions asked. Those are the dogs that we need to applaud and never try to exterminate. Half of my dog comes from those type of bloodlines, (Colby if anyone else knows APBT blood) and I feel no fear from him.
It's really not the dogs; it's the humans that own them and breed them that is the problem. It's the same with these dogs that it is with ANYTHING in this world. Humans RUIN EVERYTHING, twist it and make it evil, mean, ugly, and nasty.
I am sorry that the OP got bitten, but instead of being mad at the dog, be pissed that the bastard fucktard of an owner RUINED a perfectly good friend.
Jenny
05-13-2008, 01:07 AM
Ok...it seems REALLY absurd to equate making distinctions between different animals with judging people based on their ethnicity. Some animals are more domesticable than others. Some types of animals are more dangerous than others. A pitbull is a breed of dog; not a different species. It is neither more or less domesticated than any other European dog. Breeds of dog are created by humans to look the way they do; pitbulls did not just occur or evolve in nature. Pits were "designed" by the Victorian english. Considering the degree of interaction that they had with humans and the way pit fights operated in Victorian England, dogs with aggressive tendencies towards humans would not have been bred. They apparently had an uncanny ability to distinguish between when it was appropriate to fight another dog and when they should not.
Sunshine73
05-13-2008, 01:29 AM
I've been blamed for it in every way possible, told that I couldn't possibly expect to walk through a goddamn park holding my own small puppy without expecting to be attacked...
I find it irresponsible and just plain messed up that these people are blaming YOU. Um, were you standing around with your arm stuck out and a sign on your shirt saying "Hey, Pitbull, Bite Me!" ? No. If an owner of a pit bull saw a smaller dog and its owner in the distance, that owner should be responsible for reining their pit bull in to keep it from attacking you or your smaller dog.
That's almost like saying that if you were raped, it would be your fault too. I mean, you WERE wearig sexy clothes and all...
scarlet_is_yummy
05-13-2008, 05:15 AM
labradors and retreievers are bred to bring stuff back
pitbulls were bred to fight. its in their nature, its often the owners fault but theres no denying that its in their nature to be agressive. i hate them lol
kitana
05-13-2008, 06:00 AM
labradors and retreievers are bred to bring stuff back
pitbulls were bred to fight. its in their nature, its often the owners fault but theres no denying that its in their nature to be agressive. i hate them lol
How willfully ignorant, after what I posted earlier that there is NO connecting between animal aggression and human aggression.
I repeat NO connection between animal aggression and human aggression.
And saying you hate all APBT's is about as stupid and biased and prejudiced as saying that all Mexicans live 15 deep in a 2 bedroom trailer, or blacks will steal your stuff, or whites are racist, or Arabs are all terrorists, or Jews are all stingy, or all Asians are math wizards, and that you hate them for it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v718/KyAngel/myspace%20stuff/racialrofiling.jpg
Besides, honestly does this look like the face of a stone cold killer or something to hate?!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v718/KyAngel/workandpugs2006021.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v718/KyAngel/pugslysleeping005.jpg
Darcy Foxx
05-13-2008, 06:01 AM
cats ftw
xdamage
05-13-2008, 06:15 AM
The problem with that is that ANY dog that is a med-lg breed, shorter hair, wide head, and either brindle or black is automatically labeled as a pit bull, never mind the fact that most "reported pit bull attacks" are not even pure bred APBT. In fact I can remember one attack where the lady claimed it was a pit bull, and it turned out to be a retired K-9 GSD. (how you can confuse a shepherd type dog with a bulldog type dog is beyond me!)
True, and there really is no perfect answer because it is a complex reality. As many have pointed out, even exactly what is a Pit Bull is open for debate because it's not a simple thing to define. We don't know exactly which genes make a pit bull. We humans, we have brains, good at pattern matching, we can roughly see there are differences in dogs, and can make definitions of patterns that we define as "put bull" but it will always be murky because the reality is murky.
The problem is this...
If you take a dog that you breed (encourage certain genes in) to fight each other, and that spills over to increased attacks on humans* then the fact is that breed of dog presents an issue for people in society.**
* First point. These are animals. Not humans or computers. If we humans encourage a breed to be aggressive with each other, it's not out of the question that animals with less then perfect intellect might make mistakes, unleash their aggression on other creatures that are not pitbulls. It would be nice to think that aggression will only be directed at other animals, but chances are that is not how aggression works.
** Second point... One of my neighbors has a loud, but small dog. I know that if he gets away he is not going to attack me. He may bark at me, but he is too timid to attack me, let alone my cat. The other neighbor has a Pit Bull. He may be very well behaved around his owners which he has grown up with every day, but the question is, if he gets free by accident, does he pose an increased risk to me, my cat?, if I had little kids, to little kids? See it's great to hear these stories about how loving Pit Buils are with their owners, but they are irrelevant to me. I just care about what is the risk to me, the not owner. Some pets I know are no risk to me. Some I am not sure about.