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View Full Version : I fucking hate pitbulls.



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Jenny
05-13-2008, 06:57 AM
If you take a dog that you breed (encourage certain genes in) to fight each other, and that spills over to increased attacks on humans* then the fact is that breed of dog presents an issue for people in society.**

* First point. These are animals. Not humans or computers. If we humans encourage a breed to be aggressive with each other, it's not out of the question that animals with less then perfect intellect might make mistakes, unleash their aggression on other creatures that are not pitbulls. It would be nice to think that aggression will only be directed at other animals, but chances are that is not how aggression works.

** Second point... One of my neighbors has a loud, but small dog. I know that if he gets away he is not going to attack me. He may bark at me, but he is too timid to attack me, let alone my cat. The other neighbor has a Pit Bull. He may be very well behaved around his owners which he has grown up with every day, but the question is, if he gets free by accident, does he pose an increased risk to me, my cat?, if I had little kids, to little kids? See it's great to hear these stories about how loving Pit Buils are with their owners, but they are irrelevant to me. I just care about what is the risk to me, the not owner. Some pets I know are no risk to me. Some I am not sure about.
Dude, this is how people work. This is not how dogs work. Historically handlers felt perfectly comfortable getting in the middle of a dog fight to break it up. Pitbulls kept for fighting were simultaneously kept for family pets. Historically pitbulls were known for being gentle and obedient with people. While I disagree with any kind of dogfighting, the contemporary method of fighting in which dogs are treated as disposable objects, used for only one purpose and trained without discrimination is absolutely not what they were bred for. Dogs are bred. They don't just occur. Pitbulls were not, contrary to popular myth, bred for aggression. They were bred for agility, strength and obedience. People simply take the current atmosphere of dog fighting and project it backwards and assume that is what pitbulls were bred for.
You also might consider the vast assumptions you are making in your little dog/big dog danger. A toy poodle probably couldn't kill you. It could, however, kill a little kid or your cat. And unlike pitbulls, toy poodles do not have a history of being gentle with children.

Anyway. I'm thinking there is a pattern emerging here. I notice that people who don't really know anything about dogs are very suspicious of and hateful towards pitbulls, where people who do know about dogs are not. Fine in a sense - I mean not everyone is that interested in dogs, and why should you have to be? But there is a reason that municipalities and provinces, when enacting breed specific legislation eschew consultation with Kennel Clubs, veterinary association and humane societies and universities and instead rely on anecdotal accounts.

TheLioness
05-13-2008, 07:07 AM
Okay, I'm just going to throw a thought out here... what about personality? Every species has a sort of personality, right? Breeds? Ferrets are illegal here. Apparently, the huge uproar is about CA's chicken population, but people also say because they're viscious little animals that bite. I have a ferret and she's a little shithead sometimes but she's never bitten a stranger in her life (and rarely myself... once when I got in the way of her food when she was a baby). But, I know a girl who apparently has ferrets from hell who will attack the nearest human.

What I'm trying to say is that each specific animal has a unique personality and each type of animal has certain characteristics that are common to that type of animal. With Pit Bulls, they may be a more aggressive breed of dog... but not every Pit Bull will be born (my philosophical insight there) with that personality. On top of that, it depends on the owner. It's putting a lot of trust into the owner (humanity, oh boy) to be able to deal with that. Isn't that the real problem here? Some animals require more responsibility or dedication (or whatever), right? Shoot, and I think most of us on here agree that you should be required to pass a test to have CHILDREN.

Edit: To the ferret thing, I'd like to add that while I've let children handle her, I think that was a stupid thing to do. I don't let people handle her without warning anymore, just to be sure, even though she's never done anything.

I agree with this to a certain extent. My brother had a pit bull from when it was a small puppy. House dog. Very well trained. Babied beyond belief. Very affectionate toward adults. However my 4 year old son happened to be out in the yard with us one day and the dog went after him out of nowhere. It was very frightening. I was yelling at my son to not move, my dad was yelling at my brother to get the dog....makes me shiver still to think about it. That was the dog's last day there. He ended up giving him to someone who didn't have children around. That's my only real experience with pits. I will never own one based on what I have experienced.

As for what you're saying...We have 2 presas. Both have been with my husband since they were very young. Both have been raised with affection and lot's of attention. The male is the sweetest thing ever, and even though he weighs over 100 pounds people are drawn to him and can't keep their hands off him because he just loves people so much. He gets a little over excited with the kids and wants to run in the house and pee in the floor and jump on their beds but it's just because he's so happy. The female....well, she's the biggest asshole dog that I have ever seen. Neither of us trust her around the kids at all, so they have to stay outside (in the fenced in back yard) when the kids are home. The only person she is nice to is my husband, and sometimes me. He has mentioned giving her away if he knew someone that would take care of her (I keep hoping lol). Everyday I wish he had never got her. She hasn't bit anyone but I think she would if she got the chance. So like you, I believe that no matter what the breed, each dog will have a different personality.

xdamage
05-13-2008, 07:09 AM
Dude, this is how people work. This is not how dogs work.

Incorrect. Since this assumption is incorrect, so I didn't bother reading past this first line. To many Disney movies.

Evolutionary Biologists, whose opinion I trust more then yours, tell us that you are wrong. We share far more genetic material with animals then not. Our emotional responses are actually more similar to animals then not. Those emotional responses are evolved behaviors, over hundreds of millions of years. A few thousand years of society hasn't changed us humans that much.

As an aside, there is an interesting parallel here with women who choose very aggressive males as mates, because they make good protectors, and then are surprised when that aggression is turned on them. And if humans with all of their intellect have trouble compartmentalizing, it's silly to expect animals with less intellectual control to do it.

Jenny
05-13-2008, 07:51 AM
Incorrect. Since this assumption is incorrect, so I didn't bother reading past this first line. To many Disney movies.
Dude, I fostered dogs; I worked for pitbull and rottie organizations. I've trained a lot of dogs, including aggressive and disabled dogs. I've read, literally, dozens of books on dogs and dog training from the monks of new skete to dog training for dummies. I've attended classes. If I have a problem it is not that I'm relying on disney movies to tell me about dogs. I doubt any evolutionary biologist would tell you to rely on "well it makes sense" type theory over actual facts. Just saying.

Rhiannon
05-13-2008, 08:15 AM
I believe this thread has run its course. Thanks for your participation.