View Full Version : An Explanation of Atheism
ahmeerah
06-03-2008, 01:35 PM
When people ask me why I have turned my back on the "bliss" of religion and succumbing to "nihilism," I simply state, "I believe in people and their potential, not invisible sky wizards."
I.Breathe.In, where did you get that statistic? Is there a study proving that, or were you just hanging around Hot Topic and listening to the emos? I belong to an atheist group, and many of them aren't as cynical and misanthropic as you think.
Love that sky wizards response! And I ditto your response to i.breathe.in. most non-religious types are quite optimistic. none are like how i.breathe.in described.
loveandluxury
06-03-2008, 01:39 PM
^ I'm personally pretty optimistic and happy :) The atheists I've met have been that way as well!
Tauries
06-03-2008, 02:24 PM
^ I'm personally pretty optimistic and happy :) The atheists I've met have been that way as well!
We sorta have to be...without "sky-wizards" to blame our failure and shortcomings on...*GASP* we have to find it within ourselves to overcome our problems. ;)
scarlett_vancouver
06-03-2008, 02:42 PM
I get really annoyed when atheists let fundamentalist Christians make all the definitions of G-d and faith. Like either you're a fundamentalist Christian, or you're an atheist. ::)
This is sort of completely out of left field...where was it implied in the OP that there was even a comparison to Christianity being made?
I'm atheist, by default. If I say "I don't believe in prayer", it doesn't mean I think everyone who prays is kooky or wrong! I'm not talking about them at all, or making any implications or judgements. I'm just expessing how I do things.
Jay Zeno
06-03-2008, 03:00 PM
a = without
the = god
ism = belief
An atheist believes in no god. I don't make it any more complicated than that.
It's my observation that judgmentalism, sanctimoniousness, serenity, and ethical behavior (or lack thereof) do not confine themselves to any particular religion, religious group, or lack thereof.
Hatshepsut
06-03-2008, 03:15 PM
I think that's a really cool mentality to live by... however, I don't think it's specifically limited to athiests.
I'm Catholic, but a big part of my religion is "God helps those who help themselves." I think it's a misunderstanding the people of Faith rely on Faith or God to do their work for them....But I really don't. The only prayer that you can expect to have answered is for the strength to make it through the day. God isn't Santa Claus, randomly handing out miracles...
Like, if somebody were sick, I would pray for them eventually, but the first thing I would do is haul their ass to a hospital... make sense? I wouldn't be like, "Holy crap God! That person is bleeding! You better do something!"
LOL
Good for you. God gave you a body and a brain, and too many blindly faithful people waste them. I'm in the medical field, and we'll all too often run into simpletons who claim that, "The Lord will provide." This is bad, especially when children are involved. A few times a year, you'll see news stories about children dying from easily treatable sicknesses because the fundie parents eschewed medicine.
When I run into these people, I'll tell a parable:
Hurricane Katrina was approaching, and a bus came around to evacuate. A man was at his house, and refused, stating, "The Lord will provide." The rains came and the waters rose, forcing the man to take refuge on his roof. A boat came along, offering to take the man to safety. The man refused again, stating, "The Lord will provide." A helicopter came, offering help. The man refused a third time, stating, "The Lord will provide." The man soon drowned. At the gates of heaven, the man asked, "Lord, I prayed and had faith in you. Why did you not rescue me?" God answered, "I sent you a bus, a boat, and a helicopter. That seems like more than enough to me."
Or more laconically, I'll tell them, "Maybe the Lord sent me to you."
Blind faith is stupid and scary. Guidance and spiritualism are fine, but that kind of dedicated fundamentalism is literally life-threatening.
Yekhefah
06-03-2008, 03:37 PM
This is sort of completely out of left field...where was it implied in the OP that there was even a comparison to Christianity being made?
The implication is that "religion" (the opposite of atheism, apparently) loves G-d more than other people, puts its primary emphasis on prayer and the afterlife, and would rather build churches than hospitals. Sounds like fundamentalist Christianity to me, but it doesn't sound like Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, liberal Christianity, or the vast majority of faiths that exist in the world.
Evangelistic atheists frequently cite biblical inaccuracies as proof that the Bible can't be taken literally and hence there is no G-d. That makes no sense to me, as no one outside of fundamentalist Christianity takes the Bible literally. They argue not against faith or religion, but against Jesus. They frequently act as though everyone who believes in G-d is a fundamentalist, creationist, close-minded Jesus freak, which is obviously not the case.
I understand why they allow the fundamentalist Christians to define the terms of the debate with regard to G-d, religion, and faith. Fundamentalism is very easy to argue against, and such a black-or-white philosophy is simple to disprove. But atheists do themselves and everyone else an injustice when they deliberately ignore the wide range of beliefs outside of fundamentalist Christianity.
loveandluxury
06-03-2008, 03:45 PM
^ The original post was just some things listed about Atheists, I didn't write that nor was it intended to mean that only Atheists live that way. I think some people are just reading too much into me posting that.
Bella21
06-03-2008, 03:45 PM
Both Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins recently wrote popular books discussing Atheism. Both spend a lot of time debunking the popular belief that Atheism is some form of evil paganism, hedonism, etc. Likewise they debunk the belief that religion is "good", etc.
As is typical of humans, they want to understand their complex world in simple child-like ways, good or bad, all or nothing, so many have latched on the notion that Religion is "good", Atheism is "bad". This is so easy a child can understand it, but it is just plain out wrong, a simplification for those who get headaches trying to understand the world as it really is.
Most Atheists I know hold the same personal values as the average person. The only difference is they don't believe there is an overseer who created us or is guiding our actions. None of that means humans shouldn't create societies that try to balance individual wants with group wants. None of that means that they aren't moved by tales of heroism, kindness, charity. None of that means they engage in more sex, drugs, hedonism.
However most Atheists I know do have a strong skeptical side. They want "proof" and not faith. And there is an argument to be made that if there was such thing as the metaphorical devil, what better then people who believe things against all proof to the contrary, and call it fact based on nothing more then faith... that non-scientific stance is arguably at the root of many deceptions and falsehoods. I sure don't find that outlook on life to be something to be proud of. More like, the best tool possible to keep people believing in what is false, and call it a good thing that they believe so.
p.s. All that said, there is an argument to be made that we humans really aren't that smart. That en-mass, societies create religions to keep society in control by appealing to fear (of punishment), promises of rewards (e.g., eternal life), and that this has been a necessary tool humans have created for themselves. I don't know, but I do tend to believe that if societies repetatively create certain types of social structures, it is because it reflects something about our human nature, and what those societies needed at the time. It is easy to second guess history, but humans created what worked for them at the time given the conditions they lived in. Things change, and we have access to a lot more information in our free societies, but it wasn't always so.
QFT.
I don't believe for a second that "morality" comes from the Bible. If a person doesn't already understand that cruelty is wrong, he or she won't discover this by reading the Bible or the Koran — as these books are bursting with celebrations of cruelty, both human and divine.
xdamage
06-03-2008, 05:57 PM
I don't believe for a second that "morality" comes from the Bible. If a person doesn't already understand that cruelty is wrong, he or she won't discover this by reading the Bible or the Koran — as these books are bursting with celebrations of cruelty, both human and divine.
I don't either.
The funny thing is everyone I know, no matter how religious they believe they are, does not believe in other religion's Gods, yet they do not think of themselves from that POV as an atheist or a pagan or false believer.
If you ask them if Zeus is real or a human fiction?, no doubt about it, they will tell you a human fiction, no matter that other people in other times would have called them Atheists, or false believers, or worse, absolutely certain Zeus is real.
Yet those same people today have no trouble believing that despite a belief in human fiction, even believing in Zeus or other "false gods", us people in various societies, manage to follow our human nature and even treat each other "morally" (however you define it) no matter if we believe in false gods, the bible, no gods... and a thousand years from now... who knows what will be the popular religions of the moment.
Bella21
06-03-2008, 06:12 PM
Lol, xdamage, we are absolutely on the same page. :) Zeus is my favorite example!
StarryEyes
06-03-2008, 10:26 PM
No, sorry my post wasn't very clear. I was kind of throwing stuff out there, let me clarify.
I totally agree with you post. I believe in God, and Jesus, and do not have an issue with any other religion. I do have a problem with Christians (or anyone of other religions) that feel the need to condemn others for not believing the way they do.
I totally agree with you, I hope I made that more clear. I just see some blatent, disrespect to a couple religions/ideas on this thread, that's what I was talking about.
Oh Ok Gotcha LOL that is what I thought.
hot4ablackchick
06-03-2008, 11:56 PM
I am an atheist. Invisible wizards are funny.
Electrum
06-04-2008, 03:16 AM
We sorta have to be...without "sky-wizards" to blame our failure and shortcomings on...*GASP* we have to find it within ourselves to overcome our problems. ;)
This is another one that a serious student of religion would also understand. I don't think belief or non-belief in "sky wizards" has anything to do with a person's sense of personal responsibility.
("Sky wizards" is pretty damn funny. It is now officially in my vocab lol.)
Andygirl
06-04-2008, 05:50 AM
a = without
the = god
ism = belief
An atheist believes in no god. I don't make it any more complicated than that.
Yep, that's the ONLY thing all atheists have in common. All of that other mumbo jumbo complicates things. Atheism isn't some organization whose members all get together for their morality lesson. It's a basic belief. And that is it.
Lysondra
06-07-2008, 12:22 AM
Sorry but the wording was very offensive. Saying "Atheists believe in building hospitals not churches" is exactly like saying "non atheists believe in churches being built and not hospitals".
THAT'S the way it's worded. And it's offensive and assumptive.
Electrum
06-11-2008, 09:42 PM
^^^ http://www.acfnewsource.org/religion/atheist_church.html
Hahaha!
Lysondra
06-11-2008, 09:44 PM
So much for those damn atheists all believing the same exact things.... just like them Christians. ::) :P :P
Religion (or lack thereof) doesn't make you believe anything you don't want to.
Everyone is human and entitled to their own beliefs.
Budai
06-12-2008, 02:22 AM
Atheism is a non-prophet organization...