View Full Version : My first rant: Non-strippers learning to strip
Lysondra
07-25-2008, 06:12 PM
I don't mean to sound horrible.. but it's really counter productive to call someone a hypocrite for judging you and then saying that most of them are like ____.
msonyxorb
07-25-2008, 07:05 PM
I think THAT is what get's to me. A LOT of these women are total hypocrites: "Strippers are such whores but I wanna learn to do what they do and it's OK if I do it cause I'm not doing it at a club".
Effing snobby house wives.
eh idk. i guess you could compare it to non prostitutes judging prostitutes but doing the same thing they o in their own bedroom. especially women who sleep around...they are doing the same thing but its okay because theyre not getting paid for it...
retiredangel
07-25-2008, 07:27 PM
Interesting thread...I see both sides of the conversation for sure but I have taken advanced "classes" in dance and polework from a fabulous former stripper who was at the top of her game for over 10 years and honestly,it only deepened my respect of what it involves to dance and do polework for a living as well as give me some hard-earned skills that I truly do enjoy using to stay in shape.To learn such wonderful movement wasn't an "option" outside of a club until the past few years and even in a club,it's hard to learn correctly and well.
Many people learn many skills and take all sorts of classes, and not all of them make a living with the information.
I am of the opinion that it all depends on who is teaching and who is learning because any women I've been in a class with are TOTALLY respectful of pro-strippers and are the first ones to tip at a club.Some of the girls in my classes are still strippers as well,still earning a living,and just wanted to hone their dancing and polework and they were thrilled to share what they knew as well!
princessparis
07-25-2008, 07:30 PM
Idk lysondra, I'm just ranting. i just hate the ones with attitudes towards us like we're so awful and dirty and what they're doing is so much better than what we do just cause we do it for $$.
We can't say that all of them are ___ cause some of them may be really cool and non-judgemental about strippers:).... but the ones that are super judgemental are just so not cool!!!!
Zia_Abq
07-25-2008, 07:42 PM
Reading this makes me wonder if the people who perform aerial silks for a living sit around bitching about non professionals taking classes to learn how to do it :thinking:
princessparis
07-25-2008, 07:53 PM
Reading this makes me wonder if the people who perform aerial silks for a living sit around bitching about non professionals taking classes to learn how to do it :thinking:
Well at least people who do areial stunts don't get attitude from the majority of their amature counterparts!!
Zia_Abq
07-25-2008, 07:58 PM
Wouldn't it be funny though if some of the Cirque performers were sitting in their dressing room talking about how everyone seemed to be learning to do silks and how it was making them seem less, I don't know, impressive or something, LOL!
PleasureVictim
07-25-2008, 07:59 PM
Doesn't bother me that they take stripper classes to liven up their sex lives. It keeps them off the REAL stripper pole....can't be all that bad.
princessparis
07-25-2008, 08:09 PM
Wouldn't it be funny though if some of the Cirque performers were sitting in their dressing room talking about how everyone seemed to be learning to do silks and how it was making them seem less, I don't know, impressive or something, LOL!
lol, true.... but lucky for them the trend right now is in pole dancing and not trapeezes and that cool acrobatic thing that they do with the fabric that hangs from the ceilings... you know what i mean?
OMG I want to learn to do that! lol
Sveta
07-25-2008, 08:11 PM
Reading this makes me wonder if the people who perform aerial silks for a living sit around bitching about non professionals taking classes to learn how to do it :thinking:
No, because circus artists don't rely on the industry being at least somewhat taboo in order for them to be in demand and making money. Stripping does. The more "underground" and less socially acceptable stripping is, the more draw it has and the more successful it is. A verboten "guilty" pleasure with some mystery to it is always going to be more in demand than a ho-hum mainstream one (and people are willing to pay more for it.)
Hard Core Dance Poles
08-22-2008, 01:06 PM
I just found this thread and found it very interesting.
I own a pole dance studio... HOWEVER... I DO TEACH "STRIP CLUB STYE POLE DANCING" . I have a class that is offered to the Girls who are ALREADY in the Industry dancing , but does not know how to pole dance. We teach them how to incorporate pole dancing into their stage routine. The reason for this class is because I danced for in Atlanta for almost 10 years and saw to many times when newbies would come into the club, befriend a fellow dancer and have her teach them to pole, mean while they are getting drunk the fellow dancer shows her the wrong way and she falls and gets hurt, and they have done it on purpose because showing her the correct way would mean there would be a possiable chance of more compitition on stage and her making more money. More money out of the others garter. This way they have a safe place to learn without getting hurt.
I also teach pole dancing to wives, but NOT in the same Sense as " Pole Dancing Stripper Syle" Its more for the at home with the hubby kinda deal, But TWO TOTALY DIFFERENT TYPES OF CLASSES. I think I am the only Pole Dance Studio in Atlanta to Offer a class for Entertainers. http://polewaxersuniversity.com/sitebuilder/images/a-147x202.jpg
ViolaStrings
08-22-2008, 01:50 PM
It's OK, when this stripper craze wears off, housewives will try to emulate hookers for their husbands (wait, aren't most of them already kind of hookers?).
They'll replace pole dance with GFE class, lap dance class with Felatio 101, there will be no portable in home poles because they'll be replaced with the Lil Mynx Indoor Street Corner Simulator, etc.
txchick008
08-22-2008, 06:43 PM
Just a general response.....
I really don't think this trend affects us at all. Who cares what Suzy Homemaker does in the bedroom with her hubby? It sure as hell ain't the same as the club IMO :)
Elusive21
08-22-2008, 10:13 PM
They'll replace pole dance with GFE class, lap dance class with Felatio 101, there will be no portable in home poles because they'll be replaced with the Lil Mynx Indoor Street Corner Simulator, etc.
I belive they already have classes on how to give a blowjob.
Otoki
08-23-2008, 10:10 AM
Those people taking classes might be learning to take their clothes off in a sexy way, or how to give a vanilla lap dance to their husband, but in no way are they actually learning to be strippers. To do that, you must enter the not-always-lovely club environment and see if you can hack it. You must stand on those heels for eight hour shifts 2-3 times a week for X months, hustle men for money, do private dances for people you wouldn't even look at OTC. You have to immerse yourself in the job and see what it is really about before you can even begin to "learn to strip."
If you haven't done it as a way to earn a living, then YOU AREN'T A STRIPPER, you're just a nitwit twirling around a pole for kicks.
Exactly. That's why I don't feel threatened. Sure, some of the taboo is gone, but I make good money off of female customers (especially groups of girls who come in. They love me. I don't know why/:O)
I'm guessing the women who are taking classes to jazz up their sex lives either don't mind their dudes visiting us, or keep their guys sexually satisfied so they wouldn't feel like seeing us anyways. In other words, if it wasn't strip dance class, these women would find some other way to spice up their sex lives and keep themselves happy as a couple. *shrug*
DarkMoon08
08-23-2008, 02:22 PM
The hypocracy (sp) of it annoys the hell out of me.
GoldCoastGirl
08-24-2008, 11:01 PM
getting a LD from a stripper and getting a LD from your wife is Waaaaay different!One is more wholesome, one is more bold & then some lol.
I'm a little /:O which is more wholesome?
:devil: ;D
I know any "lap dance" I do for my man is FAR from wholesome! :D
My lap dances I do in strip clubs are more vanilla.
I'm with MsQ -
I have no problem with strippers being seen as "normal" (I actually welcome that) and I dont mind the average Jo taking classes and learning to strip. I think the problem is more that the industry has been over exagerrated. I mean plenty of people are interested in baking or cooking and like to learn how to do it or take classes to get really good at it - they arent all rushing out to become chefs or pastry cooks though.
I think society generally and pop culture lately especially has put way too much emphasis on how women should supposedly look and behave and conveniently merged it with a stripper steriotype. Sadly you have the media showing women that dancing sexilly and grabbing all the male attention at the expense of other womens egos is the sort of thing you want to strive for as opposed to maybe growing a brain and not giving a fuck about male opinion or something...
Also talk shows over the last 15 years have had way to many dumb and often average or below average looking without meaning to be rude strippers on ranting and raving about how many hundreds and thousands of $ theyve made for doing a few measely hours of fuck all a week. The industry didnt need that, thats for sure!
Anyway, hopefully its a fad and one that will die soon!
MichelleJade
08-24-2008, 11:29 PM
Today I saw an article in the newspaper on this craze. It had places listed, and I was amazed at how many places actually offer these kinds of classes.
But... the newspaper... it's definitely geared towards the older folks, the ones who have time to read the newspaper. It kinds of creeps me out.
I get scared when I somehow end up in those modern nightclubs. The girls wear little amounts of clothing and make out with random guys... ugh. I mean, that's usually more than what's offered at a strip club. Oh yeah, you can probably take her home too. All for free.
Jezzebelle
08-25-2008, 06:04 AM
It depends on your pole/lap dance teacher. It really does. I have numerous students come to me saying `Oooh er I wanna learn saucy pole dancing`then they go on about how they would love to `pole dance for real` (is this code?).
So I give them a demo of what they will learn at my class, and then a demo of what would work at a club. The last demo usualy wipes the smile off thier face but at least then we have started out on the right foot and they can decide what they really want to be taught. And it usualy isnt the hot as fuck, floorwork filled ,ankles behind your ears with the look that would make any man stray type pole work.
Some teachers have never learned the ropes in the clubs like me so cant teach thier students the difference, so they have students who really do think its all about `spin-land on floor-swing leg over pole to sit on heels-swish hair back- stand up-3 bodywaves into pole`-type crap.
Then as soon as they enter a strip club the wake up call arrives.
I agree its annoying that they get taught clean version of polework at a class (no sorry bodywaves and feeling up your sides is not dirty enough) then think thats all strippers do. Because yes,most class pole work is piss easy (most tricks not withstanding).
MOST annoying thing though is that EVERY SINGLE student that wants to strip thinks that you get paid for pole. When will this myth end, please,its doing my head in!
On the other side of the coin. Lay-women are getting better at pole tricks than strippers are, even if they cant seduce inbetween tricks, the tricks themselves are wiping the floor with most strippers...................
jaizaine
08-25-2008, 06:35 AM
Those people taking classes might be learning to take their clothes off in a sexy way, or how to give a vanilla lap dance to their husband, but in no way are they actually learning to be strippers. To do that, you must enter the not-always-lovely club environment and see if you can hack it. You must stand on those heels for eight hour shifts 2-3 times a week for X months, hustle men for money, do private dances for people you wouldn't even look at OTC. You have to immerse yourself in the job and see what it is really about before you can even begin to "learn to strip."
If you haven't done it as a way to earn a living, then YOU AREN'T A STRIPPER, you're just a nitwit twirling around a pole for kicks.
Exactly. I learned to pole dance before I started stripping. I was more into doing tricks than anything else. When the owner of the pole dance studio saw me pole dance in a competition (after I'd be stripping for about a year) she said "You're dancing in the clubs aren't you?".
You can tell a stripper from an amateur. No doubt about it.
I dont think they will hurt our money. Men wont stop getting lap dances coz they get some crappy amateur one from the woman at home who they see everyday anyway.
Also while some of the girls who take pole classes are cool with strippers, most are not. I experienced this first hand. I kept the fact that I started stripping private so no one at teh school knew I stripped. We went to perform at a strip club - it was sort of a competition just for the pole dancing students but the strippers at that club were also working that night.
So all these girls are bitching and judging the dancers and my blood was boiling. They were saying how they could tell the girls were all on coke (whatever) and they were looking down their noses at them.
The strippers were really friendly and welcoming to these girls (who were invading their club) and yet behind their backs all these girls did was rip on them.
They want to be all sexy and do pole dancing but once it comes to us girls who get paid for it and give lap dances they turn their noses up. That's what I dont like.
Otoki
08-25-2008, 09:49 AM
The hypocracy (sp) of it annoys the hell out of me.
What hypocrisy?
sassysummer
08-25-2008, 11:44 PM
Exactly. I learned to pole dance before I started stripping. I was more into doing tricks than anything else. When the owner of the pole dance studio saw me pole dance in a competition (after I'd be stripping for about a year) she said "You're dancing in the clubs aren't you?".
You can tell a stripper from an amateur. No doubt about it.
I dont think they will hurt our money. Men wont stop getting lap dances coz they get some crappy amateur one from the woman at home who they see everyday anyway.
Also while some of the girls who take pole classes are cool with strippers, most are not. I experienced this first hand.
i think it's awful for an instructor to turn her nose at a dancer, the sc industry is what gave her her job! that pisses me off...>:(
i also don't agree that the "pole dancing" craze is the reason for the problems...like said before, our society as a whole has gone south, i'm sorry, but when you start seeing thongs and bras for 6 yr olds, that's a problem with society, not any classes. media plays a big role, but parents play a bigger role, when girls are allowed to act the way they are acting, dress the way they are dressing, you get the point, there's a huge lack of parental involvement the last decade especially. now that i'm 32, i really see it. now, i ho'ed it up as a young teen to a certain extent (totally hid that from mom), but i also had more self respect for my self than many young girls do now. i didn't do what the boys wanted me to do, so many young girls now just twirl their hair and say "OK! HEHEHE" to anything boys want, it's sad
also. maybe it's a regional thing, but here in portland, well at least in my classes, my students actually say things to me like "this is SO hard! i don't know how strippers can do it! i have so much respect now for what they do!" seriously, i have heard that, or something similar, many times. most of them actually start to become regular sc patrons (and bring hubby along), well tipping even, and frequently beg me for more "field trips". maybe it's because i talk to them about how hard it is, etc.. i don't know, or maybe i just get the really bitchin students! lol ;D
Otoki
08-26-2008, 09:24 AM
i think it's awful for an instructor to turn her nose at a dancer, the sc industry is what gave her her job! that pisses me off...>:(
I don't think the instructor was being snotty (she was probably just remarking that she could see the improvement), she was saying that her classmates were being brats. Although yes, it's ridiculous for them to be stuck up about it. But there you go. People who are unhappy with their lives feel the need to judge others so they can feel superior to them.
LittleMissy
08-26-2008, 10:02 AM
I don't mind the average Jo mama learning how to strip or taking pole dancing classes. I don't care how good you're at it or how hot you are.
Your husband comes to see us b/c he wants a different flavor for the week for eye candy. I'm not too worried at all. Humans weren't made to be monogamous, it's just natural to wonder about other people. Some people can hold in those urges and others find other ways to satisfy them.
I always think that for every hot woman you see.... there is a man getting tired of her.
castleoutsider
08-26-2008, 03:20 PM
i've been looming for a bit. I personally myself am taking pole for fitness, and to better myself and to feel more comfortable with my body.
Whats sad is both sides are whats causing issues for everyone. You have the stereotypical stripper, that makes it rough on all the other dancers.
And then the gals that are teaching pole dancing, but not willing to teach the dancers, that would love to hone the skill that is pole work.
So far both the studios i went to, have been owned by gals who were and or are strippers themselves, and they are AMAZING people and I love them to bits!!
I do admit they have guts to do what they do, and to enjoy what they do. I do not myself plan on going into it because I dont feel that is my place, (I'm a wuss? lol) BUT I honestly have no problem going into the club. ^-^ I love pole dancing and If I am wow'd by a gal I would be more than happy to tip her well, even just to see more!!
It's just .. people are people.. and its always gotta be someone to fuck it up for everyone else :\ in every aspect of life.
lol oddly enough tho, I did have a soft spot on the comment about the lil preppy gals on the pole.. the ones that giggle too much.. ehh.. *squint*
ok ^^ ill get off my lil soap box and keep snooping some more ^o^!!
DarkMoon08
08-26-2008, 09:27 PM
What hypocrisy?
To be more specific. When some of the ladies are running to their stripper class, then turn around and refer to an actual stripper as skank (sp) or whore.
If not hypocrisy, it's at least a double standard...In my opinion.
alenadowns
08-27-2008, 09:28 AM
I teach pole classes, striptease, chair, floor and fire shows to these "Middle Ages Housewives"!
FIRST...They dont WANT to be strippers! You need to understand that!
That has been made perfectly clear...Strippers and Pole Dancers are 2 totally different things. Why do you think they pick out the parts they want?
They want the shoes, the pretty outfits, the pole...not the stage, or the customers, or the crappy club, or the asshole managers.
They do not remove their clothing, they do not perform sexual acts on stage for the public to see and pay for!
I know this...I was a stripper for over a decade...and I have strictly been a pole dancer only for the last 3. There is a big difference!
They are not taking classes to start stage, they are not taking classes to take your business away from you, they are not trying to demoralize or mainstream your industry at all!!!
They are pole dancing...just pole dancing!
They take the classes because they actually admire the physical condition strippers are in, they appreciate the fact that you have gotten into the shape you are in (beautiful, as they say), because of what you do on stage!
They take classes to lose weight, feel good, prevent disease, keep the spice in their marriage, some have even been recommended to do it as sports injury therapy!!!!
Have any of you role played with your mate? Would you role play your entire life? No!
Here in Canada, women are 45% of the population of patrons in strip clubs. By strip and pole classes, clientel has increased here...and THEY TIP TOO!
There was an article here...I will find it and post.....
Women who take strip or pole classes DO NOT want to be strippers, they want to look like them...They appreciate the challenge and effort that it takes to perform moves on the pole. THAT is the difference.
Not one of my "everyday woman" students could handle what I did in the industry. I discuss this with them as well, and they all agree! Not one of them have termed a stripper as a whore or skank....they have only shown respect for what you ladies are capable of doing...and they are NOT!
People were skeptical when Belly Dancing became popular...did it kill that industry? No, it helped it!
Did girls who do floor shows get cranky when yoga became popular? No, I honestly dont think they had a clue that the moves are the same!!! They are actually!
Did Gymnastics companies get ticked that strippers were using their moves? No, and girls on stage do!
So should we argue that strippers should do nothing but stand there and take off their clothes?
Or should we argue that yoga should not perform floor moves?
That we should go back to strippers having nothing to offer the general population but degregation, disease, demoralization and disgust...because that is all we were classified as for years!
It is rather odd that everyone seems to want to mark something as "their own"
Poles did not start with strippers....they started in parks for children, then were taken into circus, then placed as a useless prop on a stripper stage. It wasnt until the 90's that strippers used the poles!
I have invested a number of years into bringing Pole Dancing...(not stripping) to the general public. I wanted to make sure that when I stepped off stage, I had a life to continue with. One that could support me and my family!
Thank you ladies for informing me that my business impedes on you!
castleoutsider
08-27-2008, 11:13 PM
<33 alena
austinatalie
08-29-2008, 10:53 AM
WTG alena!
kitty69
08-29-2008, 11:53 AM
I kinda feel bad reading this thread as I am a 32 year old mother of two ( a bit over weight, but trying hard to shape up.) who decided to have a go at stripping, I had a pole in my room for 3 years before this stage. I always thought i would be good at it and i always knew i would try it. I now class myself as a stripper, have been doing it for 7 months and earning money, i think the difference between the two and having the bollocks to get naked for a complete stranger is something to not be underestimated. I wake up in a morning with my feet burning, my knees aching and my hair stinking of strip club (metaphorically) etc, that to me is the difference and the reason i know that i am no longer a mum of two pretending to strip, but a mum of two who is also a stripper. This isnt supposed to make too much sense just my feelings on it. /:O
PaigeDWinter
08-29-2008, 08:19 PM
I'm glad for it, honestly. It's going to help lower the % of women who think we're whores. ::)
lildreamer316
08-29-2008, 08:41 PM
Well, as I said before, I danced from Feb. 1994 until first of Aug. 2003, with some back and forth since then, and I have never learned one *single* pole trick.
Yes, really. I know, I'm lazy...LOL.
Before you go judging what kind of stripper I am, lemme tell you that I always had compliments on my stage show. I'm not saying that I am or was better than any other girl, just different. Pole is not everything and it did not really matter in the long run to me and my ability to make money. And it also made me stand out a bit.
But I understand the general gist of the rant...a lot of these women do look down their noses at strippers; and those that teach the classes and don't allow strippers in are very hypocritical. I am not sure, myself, how I feel about the 'normalization' of stripping. I think the public's present view of what it is does not really scratch the surface at all. The rap videos are the worst about conveying the wrong idea of what we do and what to expect.
I am just waiting and watching to see what comes of all of this, I suppose.
alenadowns....
I have never in my life performed a sexual act on stage; at least by my definition. Just to clear that up. I'd be willing to bet that at least half of the ladies here who have not danced nude, and even many of them, do not regularly perform 'sexual acts'. But of course I could be wrong. Yes, I do understand that you are in Canada and I am in the US, and diffferent areas have lots of different rules and normalities; but I just don't think most of the ladies here are going up and performing what they would call a 'sexual act' on stage every night.
Y'all feel free to correct me if this is a regular occurance for you. I do understand I am out of the loop somewhat.
As to what you are saying about these women...
"They want the shoes, the pretty outfits, the pole...not the stage, or the customers, or the crappy club, or the asshole managers."
"Women who take strip or pole classes DO NOT want to be strippers, they want to look like them...They appreciate the challenge and effort that it takes to perform moves on the pole."
Well, OUR point is that you don't GET TO PICK AND CHOOSE. Being a stripper includes a lot of hellish stuff like you mentioned..stage, crappy customers, crappy club, utter asshole managers; no protection from dumbass bouncers, no help from the police if something happens, and most of all: THE SCORN OF POLITE SOCIETY . (not to mention often the loss of family and personal relationships; the very real threat and reality of the loss of custody of our children!!!) The shoes, pretty outfits, and bangin' bodies are PART OF OUR REWARDS FOR PUTTING UP WITH THE OTHER STUFF. Not to mention the money, of course.
If you want to do something that is part of a stripper's job, either put your ovaries on the fuckin' table and deal with everything that comes with the job - and I mean EVERYTHING; or walk away and do something else. It is not fair to those of us that have sacrificed certain parts of our lives in order to have the FREEDOM that stripping can bring, (if done with one's head on relatively straight) to have women who are not willing to put forth the risk reap the reward.
And THAT is why it pisses us off. Me, anyway.
But ya know what? I'm not gonna change anyone's mind by posting on a message board. Go on and make your paper and support your family. I am not arguing with that really, per se. I just don't think you realize what is being sold out here. And I know that things aren't really going to change. I can agree to disagree with your view on the situation, while still realizing that you were smart enough to turn what you were good at into a moneymaking job for you and yours. Good on you for that.
So I guess, after saying all that, I agree with the Original Poster..the mystery needs to be respected. You get respect by taking some risk. What risk is there in going to a class in a well-lighted studio with other women doing the same thing you are? Not much to me.
Paris
08-29-2008, 08:57 PM
Stripping lost it's mystique when the girls came off the stage and started giving lap dances to anyone with $20. When the girls were untouchable, the mystery was much greater.
Just my .02 cents.
alenadowns
09-01-2008, 10:08 AM
alenadowns....
I have never in my life performed a sexual act on stage; at least by my definition. Just to clear that up. I'd be willing to bet that at least half of the ladies here who have not danced nude, and even many of them, do not regularly perform 'sexual acts'. But of course I could be wrong. Yes, I do understand that you are in Canada and I am in the US, and diffferent areas have lots of different rules and normalities; but I just don't think most of the ladies here are going up and performing what they would call a 'sexual act' on stage every night.
You go on stage to entice men, correct?
You dance in a sexual manner, correct?
You remove your clothing (even if not all), correct?
You touch your body in a sexual manner, correct?
YOU ARE A STRIPPER, CORRECT?
If you answered yes to ANY of the above questions...you perform sexual acts on stage. Please look up the definition! Sexual act is NOT live porn.
Strippers are classified as Sex Worker performing Sexual Acts on a stage for money.
Well, OUR point is that you don't GET TO PICK AND CHOOSE. Being a stripper includes a lot of hellish stuff like you mentioned..stage, crappy customers, crappy club, utter asshole managers; no protection from dumbass bouncers, no help from the police if something happens, and most of all: THE SCORN OF POLITE SOCIETY . (not to mention often the loss of family and personal relationships; the very real threat and reality of the loss of custody of our children!!!) The shoes, pretty outfits, and bangin' bodies are PART OF OUR REWARDS FOR PUTTING UP WITH THE OTHER STUFF. Not to mention the money, of course.
The wonderful thing about an evolving world is change.
Strippers DO get to pick and choose. They have the option to change where they work, to work in a non nude club, to work in a stage only club!
They can choose to work under horrible conditions or leave, that is the wonders of working for yourself! YOU CHOOSE!
I chose to become a Pole Dancer after being a stripper, because I didnt want to deal with what I dealt with as a stripper.
Women dont do pole to show up dancers! Why does everyone feel that they are out to get you???
I teach everyday women how to pole dance, feel good about themselves, get into shape! Not to be better or even the same as a stripper.
I do agree that the mystique is gone from the industry...pole classes were not the reason....it was the $20, $10 $7 contact dances that helped that. Along with the fact that ANYONE can see a stripper online, you can get live porn online FOR FREE!!
If you want to blame something for the industry changing, blame the internet!
If you want to do something that is part of a stripper's job, either put your ovaries on the fuckin' table and deal with everything that comes with the job - and I mean EVERYTHING; or walk away and do something else. It is not fair to those of us that have sacrificed certain parts of our lives in order to have the FREEDOM that stripping can bring, (if done with one's head on relatively straight) to have women who are not willing to put forth the risk reap the reward.
The word Stripper can be replaced with any other occupation title....
You dont see an biological parent telling an adoptive one they cant be a parent because they didnt put their "ovaries" on the table and deal with everything...do you?
You dont see taxi's telling the moms carpooling the kids, to deal with everything that comes with the job.
You dont see a daycare telling a stay at home mom that she cant do her job!
Every person, Every day, does something that is NOT related to their job...why...THEY CAN!
Realistically, this is just a rant thread, and everyone is entitled to their opinion!
Thanks for the debate, I understand a bit more of the industry today!
Bubble
09-02-2008, 04:51 AM
^ I agree..
I am so mad/jealous when I see dumpy little teenagers flying around the pole better than I can!! I'm like "wtf?!?!"
They are always too jerky and fast and just not as sensual as real strippers!
but it has irked me lately too, noticing the number of 'stripper moves' in music videos and when I search youtube, there are soooo many amateur pole dancers, eager to show the one lousy spin they can do in a bikini.
(P.S. No offense to those who offer instructional or beautiful pole dances on youtube, I need you to help me learn!!)I think you just answered yourself!
Nakita Kash
09-02-2008, 04:14 PM
Those people taking classes might be learning to take their clothes off in a sexy way, or how to give a vanilla lap dance to their husband, but in no way are they actually learning to be strippers. To do that, you must enter the not-always-lovely club environment and see if you can hack it. You must stand on those heels for eight hour shifts 2-3 times a week for X months, hustle men for money, do private dances for people you wouldn't even look at OTC. You have to immerse yourself in the job and see what it is really about before you can even begin to "learn to strip."
If you haven't done it as a way to earn a living, then YOU AREN'T A STRIPPER, you're just a nitwit twirling around a pole for kicks.
It took me a while to come to terms with teaching regular women. For years I only taught dancers and then saw the market for regular women. I find that making it vanilla helps me personally because they aren't really tapping into the demons that are in my stripper head. I use terms that aren't as vulgar. Instead of saying humping or air fucking, I come up with other words that are more easily accepted. However, every once in a while a student's light bulb will go off and she will ask me a question like "why does it seem like all these movements are circular?". Well the answer opened up her eyes! The answer is because we have a tip rail full of guys and #1- we have to make our way to get in front of each one of them and #2- because they want to see us from every angle. Moments like that, they seem to get it a bit.
I don't do any actual stripping to nudity in my classes for the regular women but I make sure to point out what the guyS would be looking at from different angles in certain positions. They seem to get it more. BUT, you are right. They would never really get it unless they threw themselves on stage for a few nights.
I hate this! It seems like so many girls are taking pole dance classes, but these are the same girls who look down on me for being a stripper.
The one lady who teaches pole dance classes here, won't teach strippers. I wanted to take a class and as soon as she found out I actually danced, she stopped returning my calls.
I don't understand this. I could never take a class from someone who hasn't been there themselves or at least trained with someone who has. I really don't get this "Sheila Kelly" way of thinking. Don't knock the actual act you are trying to imitate!
sunnie86
05-30-2009, 10:41 AM
a custie once told me, " my wife take pole dance classes at the gym... so i bought her a pole, and just between me and u, i have to fantasys about the girls here (at the club) to stop myself from laughing, but i play along to keep her happy." i asked him why he thought it was so funny, and he said, "cause she is my wife, am i attracted to her...yes. but its not the same. i dont think of her in that way...she farts on my leg in bed."
amandelicious
05-30-2009, 01:59 PM
This kind of post just makes me livid. Thank you to the girls who are in part, if not fully ok with this new trend. Guess what, as my mother would put it, the "moral decay" of society has led to the point where strip clubs are not the dirty little secret anymore. It's not us "house slaves" that have done it... it's the fact that as time marches on, society gets more permissive. Look at how we dress, speak in public and the media we absorb.
To those that feel we do it simply because we are afraid of strippers... you must have a pretty high opinion of yourselves. If you're not good enough at your job to keep our husbands, that's not our fault. I NEVER took lessons for my husband's benifit, and I've NEVER danced for him because I don't do it for him. I do it for ME. I'm the one who lost almost 30lbs doing it. I'm the one who now feels more comfortable in her own skin. I'm the one who makes extra money teaching others how to express themselves the same way.
As to the teacher who won't teach strippers, that's her choice, she just sounds like a bitch. I have had several students who either already were dancing, or got jobs as dancers.
And as a side note, I came to this site because a friend of mine suggested it. She has since left because of all the bitching. The last thread about civi girls jumping up on stage finally did it for me too. I left a very nice note about how I did think it was rude, but I also offered suggestions. Teach them, make money off them! They just want to be cool like you. The private messages that followed were rude and bordering on abusive.
And in response to the common theme of girls on here complaining that we don't know what kind of shit you have to put up with, get a different job if it's so terrible! LMAO
If you're not happy about something someone has to say. Get over it. This is America. Anyone with a camera and a little selfesteem is ENTITLED to post videos on youtube. I'm entitled to teach lessons, yet not take my clothes off. You have made your choices, and I have made mine. I have never judged a person for choosing to make money off something they feel comfortable with. So don't judge me for catering to a social demand.
ViolaStrings
05-30-2009, 03:01 PM
^ blah blah blah
Nakita Kash
05-31-2009, 03:26 AM
As to the teacher who won't teach strippers, that's her choice, she just sounds like a bitch.
Yes she does, but it's more likely that she felt they would show her up. I have gained so many students because teachers like yourself have taken some classes or watched videos and decided to become teachers but only can take their students through a couple levels before they have taught everything they know!
The last thread about civi girls jumping up on stage finally did it for me too. I left a very nice note about how I did think it was rude, but I also offered suggestions. Teach them, make money off them! They just want to be cool like you.
You are right- they do just want to be cool like us. HOWEVER, women like that already think that they are that cool and usually aren't the ones that will pay $ to come to classes. I find women who hop up on a pole in front of a crowd whether actually in an adult club or night club (I do pole shows in night clubs too, which is why I know this), are NOT the kind that will come to a class. Women who pay for classes have a bit of humility and are pretty private about it all- even if it is in a group of women that they don't know. Yes, I am generalizing but this is just my experience.
I'm entitled to teach lessons
I know that you are right in theory. BUT, what makes you think that you really have the right to teach exotic dance if you have never been an exotic dancer? Just curious
firemaiden04
05-31-2009, 04:08 PM
And as a side note, I came to this site because a friend of mine suggested it. She has since left because of all the bitching. The last thread about civi girls jumping up on stage finally did it for me too. I left a very nice note about how I did think it was rude, but I also offered suggestions. Teach them, make money off them! They just want to be cool like you. The private messages that followed were rude and bordering on abusive.
And in response to the common theme of girls on here complaining that we don't know what kind of shit you have to put up with, get a different job if it's so terrible! LMA
If you're not happy about something someone has to say. Get over it. This is America. Anyone with a camera and a little selfesteem is ENTITLED to post videos on youtube. I'm entitled to teach lessons, yet not take my clothes off. You have made your choices, and I have made mine. I have never judged a person for choosing to make money off something they feel comfortable with. So don't judge me for catering to a social demand.
Bitching? Really? Cause it looks like you're causing more drama than anyone else on this thread, especially since no one had really posted to it since September of last year.
I don't think you understand why random girls trying to dance at our clubs pisses us off so much. Why would we take it as a compliment? If these girls really were coming from a mindset of admiring us and wanting to be us, sure. But that's not what they're doing. What they're doing is flirting with the guys who came in to see us, and acting like drunk whores, and actively discouraging them from spending any money. Most of the drunk chicks that come into my club will trash talk the dancers, talking about how we're such whores and sluts and blah blah blah. Then they'll give some terrible drunken excuse for a lap dance out on the floor, grinding and everything--and we aren't allowed to grind unless we're in the private rooms, we even have to keep one foot on the floor during our table dances. They get some kind of high off of trying to show us up.
ViolaStrings
05-31-2009, 04:37 PM
Amandelicious, I don't come to their jobs at the GAP and start folding shirts or jump the counter at McDonald's and start flipping burgers. They owe me the same courtesy.
Fenriswolf
06-01-2009, 02:19 AM
I can't believe how bitter some people on here are about this. Sure, I can understand getting really ranty about women being fucking obnoxious in clubs for example, but women learning to pole dance? Really?
Hypocrisy of any stripe is pathetic, and any pole dance instructor who refuses to teach dancers has their head up their arse. But I hardly think a majority of women are taking pole dancing classes to stick it at strippers, or even necessarily to liven up their sex lives. To reconnect with their own body and sense of sexuality, sure. But that's not necessarily the same thing.
I have as little time as anyone else with half a braincell for insecure women who learn to pole dance yet judge strippers, but that doesn't mean most women who want to learn this fit that stereotype.
My stripping experience? One night, apparently I was pretty good, wimped out (not because it was the sex industry, ultimately I'm a pussy with new jobs and they were all too understanding and nice about me leaving if I wasn't comfortable). I think I would enjoy it, especially if it was part time around another job but fuck knows if I'll ever prioritise it enough for it to become a reality.
My pole dancing experience? Three lessons, which were fucking fun and hard work, and I haven't had the time or energy to get into it properly (work 6 days, have a lot of animals to care for, getting back into kickboxing and eventually fighting is a higher priority for me). The other women there were young women who wanted to learn something fun and athletic, and yeah, probably wanted to feel hot. I got no vibe of negativity toward the sex industry at all.
And I would hardly feel threatened, because watching the more advanced classes, there were some very agile women but only one was the least bit sexy to me - and the instructors there (some are ex-strippers, some not) teach you to dance as part of a routine.
Anyway, that's my ramble. IMO, fair enough to get shitty at people being hypocritical wankers but I was somewhat shocked at how many people felt the need to judge anyone wanting to learn to pole dance as arseholish/desperate/pathetic. *shrug*
Fenriswolf
06-01-2009, 02:21 AM
P.S. (Yup, I'm double posting sorry!) I'm totally on board with women coming into clubs to draw attention to themselves being pathetic and rude, and I'm embarrassed for them.
amalya
06-01-2009, 03:37 AM
Yes, this thread is old, but the recent post caught my attention, and I've gone back and read the whole thing.
I've been in the industry for 10+ years, and, of course I can identify with the ladies who don't like the 'mainstreaming' of our profession...but, I can also understand what the opposing side has to say.
As a stripper, I totally understand where the frustration of my fellow ladies comes from, AND IT GOES BEYOND THE POLE...the job encompasses so much more. We have to deal with countless personalities; walk around in crazy heels; look good, smell good;...take whatever is said to us with a grain of salt...smile...deal with less than desirable work environments; balance budgets when you don't know if it's going to be a good or bad shift...I could go on and on...just as it can be a good life, it can be just as bad.
WE ARE PROUD OF WHAT WE DO, PROTECTIVE OF OUR OWN, AND WARY OF OTHERS WHO HAVE NOT BEEN THROUGH THE HEAVEN AND/OR HELL WE GO THROUGH.
On the other side, even if a non-stripper takes pole classes it will not hurt our business...like I said, it goes beyond the pole.
^^^^ I agree. I'm all for women getting in touch with their own sexuality, but if they just want to mainstream our profession, they should go home. They have no business learning to pole dance. I feel the same way about the influx of eighteen year olds straight out of high school that start dancing around this time, during the summer. They just cheapen our work environment with their complete lack of maturity, dancing and hustling skills.
amandelicious
06-01-2009, 09:54 AM
Ok, I’ve been asked some questions, and in the interest of a good debate, I will respond to them. Then I’m cancling my account because I came here to learn more about this subculture and people with similar interests. To the few that have been very nice, thank you. To those who feel they need to tear others down. Get a hobby.
To Nakita
“I have gained so many students because teachers like yourself have taken some classes or watched videos and decided to become teachers but only can take their students through a couple levels before they have taught everything they know!”
How rude! The only reason I teach is because there is only ONE other studio in my state and it’s over two hours away. I’m not full of myself, I will never post my videos on the internet and I tell prospective students straight up that I’ve never danced in a club and they don’t seem to care. That also didn’t seem to matter to a local dancer who had been dancing around the country for 5 years. She came to me and begged me to train her. And she did quite well in a competition in a nearby state. I’ve had girls get jobs in local sc’s and they have been told by the other girls that they don’t know how they do the tricks they do. So you’re little jab about me doesn’t hurt. And BTW, who made you queen of pole dancing. I’m certain there’s someone, somewhere who is better than you.
“what makes you think that you really have the right to teach exotic dance if you have never been an exotic dancer? Just curious”
I don’t teach exotic dance. I teach Vertical Fitness. I don’t teach the girls to touch themselves, hump the air or wave their business in other people’s faces. If they want to do that, that’s fine, more power to them. But they won’t learn it from me because as I have already stated, I’ve never worked a stage and I would lose a lot of students if I started making them practice in platforms or start throwing in raunchy moves.
To Firemadien04
“it looks like you're causing more drama than anyone else on this thread, especially since no one had really posted to it since September of last year.”
I realize this thread is almost a year old. The only reason I found it was because Sunny86 brought it back to the front page with her post on 5/30. It’s not like I went digging for a reason to rant. So calm yourself.
To Firemadain04 and Violastrings
“I don't think you understand why random girls trying to dance at our clubs pisses us off so much.”
I am empathetic to that, that’s why I posted encouragement instead of curses. I can see why it would bother people. I really can. The clubs that I’ve been to do allow women by themselves, but I’ve never seen this happen. I know you guys work hard, I personally know a lot of strippers and as I’ve stated in several other posts, I go there to support the girls, whether or not I know them. I tip well and I tip everyone. I have a great time when I go, and while I don’t let the girls actually lift up my shirt or anything, I let them do just about anything else and they love it because they make more money when THEY drag me up on the stage and flat out faux-69 me. I support you guys, that’s why I liked coming here and learning more of the behind the stage stuff!
To Fenriswolf and Amalya
Thank you hun!
To JD and anyone else to choses to continue this thread without me;
I wish all of you the best of success in your chosen professions. And I hope that perhaps you will examine yourselves a little more closely and realize that you too had to start somewhere. You didn’t jump out of the womb knowing how to move your body in a way that would make a man’s toes curl. So be kind to those who are trying to learn. To follow the analogy that keeps popping up… that strikes pretty close to home…lol. At one of my three jobs, I’m a manager at McDonalds. Just cause I’ve been there a long time, perhaps can make a sandwich better and faster than someone who has just started… doesn’t mean that I’m going to be Queen Bitch to anyone who decides they want to work there and doesn’t know a quarter pounder from a fish sandwich.
Take care.
ViolaStrings
06-01-2009, 10:00 AM
^ ahahahaha , I can finally actually use this joke for real... I don't jump the counter at McDonald's and start flipping burgers, don't come to my job and strip.
castleoutsider
06-01-2009, 11:27 PM
sadly due to the economy alot of gals have came into the studio to learn so they can work in the club. everyones gotta make their money some how =\
MarvelGirl
06-02-2009, 11:20 AM
This shit cracks me up. Why are some of you even here? If you don't strip, and you're not even a regular customer, why the hell would you hang out on here? It doesn't make any sense, and what makes even less sense is expecting those of us who actually DO the job to give a shit about your feelings and temper what we say to make you feel more welcome. Bitch please...
You know, I hang out on another forum where the subject matter is something very important to me, and it has recently come to light over there that a large amount of people participating in the forum have NO REAL INTEREST in the very subject that the forum is based on. They just pretend to because they think that somehow it makes them cool, or some such crap.
So, I have to ask. Are you really that pathetic? Those of you who don't dance, and don't have any real reason to be here, do you not have jobs and hobbies of your own? That's so incredibly sad, to hang out at a forum just to make internet friends. Maybe if you get a life, and find hobbies and interests of your own, you can find a forum where you actually belong and make friends there.
Oh, and there are fucking forums for people who like to chew ice, so don't act like your hobbies are so weird that you can't find others. This wanna be dancer shit is just pathetic, now I see the reason for the original rant in this thread. Stop living vicariously through us and get a life.