View Full Version : The Crotch Grab (does it work?)
slims099
07-26-2008, 08:42 AM
It usually means she wants to suck or fuck you in the back dude. I don't like it cause I don't look for that at clubs (anymore ha). It's weird especially if it happened a 2nd or 3rd time like you're talking about, its TOTALLY weird and I'd wanna leave.
jannisary
07-26-2008, 08:48 PM
I think it really does depend on the city you are in.
Saying that a dancer is a whore or whatever is bullshit just because she does what some here may disagree with.
In some clubs in the St. Louis area this is a fairly common hustle. It DOES NOT mean the dancer will necessarily do anymore than a hot regular dance. Some dancers might, others definitely don't.
In the small town of Brooklyn just across the river from St. Louis, this used to be a very common thing. It is called the "Brooklyn handshake" because the dancer would greet a guy by lightly grabbing his crotch.
Now if the dancer continues to rub the guys crotch, then she could be one of those "dirty" girls you ladies love to hate on so much.
LoveComesFromWithin
07-26-2008, 11:52 PM
i think it works for guys who want that. theres all types of different guys, who like different things
Golden_Rule
07-27-2008, 10:55 PM
Saying that a dancer is a whore or whatever is bullshit just because she does what some here may disagree with.
In some clubs in the St. Louis area this is a fairly common hustle. It DOES NOT mean the dancer will necessarily do anymore than a hot regular dance. Some dancers might, others definitely don't.
In the small town of Brooklyn just across the river from St. Louis, this used to be a very common thing. It is called the "Brooklyn handshake" because the dancer would greet a guy by lightly grabbing his crotch.
Bad example. It is common knowledge that the clubs of East St Louis and Brooklyn were way ahead of the national curve in the "extras" department.
In fact the clubs of East St Louis and Brooklyn were notorious among individuals wired into the internet strip-club coverage, both out in the open and back channel boards, for exactly how much actual sex went on inside the clubs .
Golden_Rule
07-27-2008, 10:57 PM
i think it works for guys who want that. theres all types of different guys, who like different things
Goes to what I said earlier.
If a guy is looking for a certain type of dancer, than this approach may identify her to him.
May, if she pushes the play, totally backfire on the dancer if the guy is looking for another type of dancer.
Samba
07-28-2008, 12:53 AM
I've seen girls do it, and they BAAAAAAAAAAAAAANK.
I never did, and I've heard some guys say it turns them off for a girl to be that aggressive, but those girls never seem to leave with less than a G and they work like half a shift. So it works for them.
:-\
Golden_Rule
07-28-2008, 01:14 AM
I've seen girls do it, and they BAAAAAAAAAAAAAANK.
I never did, and I've heard some guys say it turns them off for a girl to be that aggressive, but those girls never seem to leave with less than a G and they work like half a shift. So it works for them.
:-\
I don't know why they would say that?
In locker room talk at the golf club to downing the occasional long neck with the boys in a non-strip-club I can't tell you how often I have over heard these words:
You know, we have to be the aggressor all the time, put our egos on the line to be rejected. It would be nice if every once and awhile it was the woman's job to take the yes or no on the chin.
The "Wanna Dance?" is the social equivalent of "Would you go out with me?", in that it places the ego squarely on the line for rejection.
It is precisely the turning of the worm I've heard guys say they want for years. To be the pursued instead of the chaser. :D
Jay Zeno
07-28-2008, 06:46 AM
Been done, didn't like it. I realize the rules do not flow symmetrically, particularly in a club, but I wouldn't fondle a girl uninvited, and I don't expect her to do so with me.
bsteve
07-28-2008, 09:09 AM
It would be an effective selling technique to get a guy to make an impulse buy on a dance, but it would also come across as an advertisement for extras. Most likely, any guy who bought a dance based on the crotch grab would be expecting some "servicing."
Yeah, that's how I would interpret it.
xdamage
07-28-2008, 09:17 AM
I've seen girls do it, and they BAAAAAAAAAAAAAANK.
I never did, and I've heard some guys say it turns them off for a girl to be that aggressive, but those girls never seem to leave with less than a G and they work like half a shift. So it works for them.
:-\
It's really no surprise that this less-then-subtle approach statistically works. It is animal, raw, to the point. But where is the motivation for anyone to tarnish their virtual identities and admit it? If a dancer acknowledges she does this, she is likely to be marked as a whore/tramp/extra-girl. If a customer acknowledges having bought because of it, he is likely to be marked as a lecher/perv/john.
UtahMike
07-28-2008, 10:06 AM
Also, there are guys who are not very well endowed, impotent, incontinent, etc., and they most likely do not want to be reminded of this by having a dancer feel their crotch.
Jay Zeno
07-28-2008, 08:40 PM
Yeah, well, I took the question to be an introductory fondle.
Golden_Rule
07-28-2008, 08:46 PM
It's really no surprise that this less-then-subtle approach statistically works. It is animal, raw, to the point. But where is the motivation for anyone to tarnish their virtual identities and admit it? If a dancer acknowledges she does this, she is likely to be marked as a whore/tramp/extra-girl. If a customer acknowledges having bought because of it, he is likely to be marked as a lecher/perv/john.
Totally agreed.
However, since I am totally aware of both my faults and short-comings but well convinced they do not devalue my worth as a human being* let me be the first man to state, categorically, I have - under circumstances I have defined previously - purchased a VIP room or lap dances due to this precise approach.
Now any who want to call me a lech or a perv... fine and dandy. They'd be wrong but its no skin off my nose for their being such. Call me a john. OK, you have me there. If you define a john though as any man who has ever paid for sex in any form, at any time, than I would bet my bank account against a C-note, and that would be very good odds, that I am in VERY good company if not the majority of the male gender in the US entirely.
*I've dealt with truly bad people. Major scum of all forms. A guy whose sole offense to humanity is he paid for a blow-job in a VIP at a strip-club doesn't even move the needle on the scumbag meter. Same can be said for the woman who sold it to him if doing so was her sole offense against society.
CalifSCVisitor65
07-28-2008, 08:49 PM
Has happened to me like twice and I didn't buy either time. It actually comes across as kind of desparate. I kind of look at it as a false promise of extras (bait & switch tactic).
xdamage
07-29-2008, 04:15 PM
Totally agreed.
....Now any who wants to call me a lech or a perv... fine and dandy. They'd be wrong but ...
Well, FWIW, it doesn't bother me any. But like I said, I'm into situational ethics and while I would find it unwanted OTC, I can allow for the fact that in the SC there is a lot of behavior going on that we don't find OTC (including just simply women walking up to random strangers and saying "Wanna a nasty lap dance for $20?" - that would be shocking as hell to most people in most situations). I mean, from a certain POV, one can only get so shocked about things anyway, and I am even less bothered by such things in a SC. In theory all touching should be agreed on, but it's all a big gray scale to me, and I've seen other types of touching in clubs in which dancers don't first ask (e.g., plopping oneself down on a customer's lap). Again, OTC that would be shocking. In, /shrug. I don't even notice most of the time.
loveandluxury
07-29-2008, 04:37 PM
I've never seen the crotch grab done, and never done it myself. I don't think I would do it either just because I wouldn't want somebody to grab my crotch.
However, if it's the norm in your club and it works for you then more power to you. I'd just be worried that the guy would think he's going to be getting a lot more in the back than just a dance.
Golden_Rule
07-29-2008, 04:41 PM
Well, FWIW, it doesn't bother me any.
I've found you to always be a very reasonable person. I see this is no exception. :)
Golden_Rule
07-29-2008, 04:43 PM
I've never seen the crotch grab done, and never done it myself. I don't think I would do it either just because I wouldn't want somebody to grab my crotch.
Reasonable.
However, if it's the norm in your club and it works for you then more power to you. I'd just be worried that the guy would think he's going to be getting a lot more in the back than just a dance.
Frankly, I wouldn't think it would work for any but dancers who were advertising their specific comfort level. For those specific dancers, under the right circumstances, I can see where it would be effective.
xdamage
07-29-2008, 05:32 PM
I've found you to always be a very reasonable person. I see this is no exception. :)
Thank you.
Pretty_Penny
07-29-2008, 07:24 PM
It's really no surprise that this less-then-subtle approach statistically works. It is animal, raw, to the point. But where is the motivation for anyone to tarnish their virtual identities and admit it? If a dancer acknowledges she does this, she is likely to be marked as a whore/tramp/extra-girl. If a customer acknowledges having bought because of it, he is likely to be marked as a lecher/perv/john.
she IS an extras girl if she's grabbing dick in a club where it isn't allowed and other dancers don't do it.
xdamage
07-29-2008, 11:25 PM
she IS an extras girl if she's grabbing dick in a club where it isn't allowed and other dancers don't do it.
I know lots of people who have broken laws including:
o People who use illegal recreational drugs, safely, but still, are breaking laws.
o People who have used prostitutes in countries where it is illegal.
o Dancers who have done more then the law allows in a SC.
o "Deviant" sex acts between adults (per law and conservative community standards) but agreed on sexual acts.
All of these are examples of mostly victim less crimes, except that even so, there are laws made by others that dis-allow the adults to engage in agreed on acts. Being victim less, I have a very limited sense of outrage over them.
If I was to shut everyone down with a negative label every time they spoke about such things, I might just as well put my fingers in my ears, because I would never know the truth of what really happens in life. They would all just shut-up around me and tell me only what I want to hear to avoid me chastising them.
Now while I understand why dancers have something to lose to when other girls engage in "extras" and this is why they chastise each other, I personally can't police everyone all of the time through life.
So... what you say is true. But what I say is true too. The reason why nobody wants to talk about some things that happen in SCs on SW, including this crotch grabbing, is because the group will mob spank them for it.
But it is not because this group is somehow morally superior to the rest of the community at large. I see lots of topics on recreational drug use, deviant sex (per some peoples definitions and some laws), even escorting, an nobody cares around here. Why?
Because it doesn't impact on anyone's bottom line or put them at risk personally. That's it. There is no great moral good being exposed on SW beyond that.
As a dancer, you should go on expressing why "extras" are bad because it does negatively effect you.
But as a customer and less interested 3rd party, as far as I'm concerned this along with so much else that happens in SCs is just another victim less crime that should be decriminalized.
Golden_Rule
07-30-2008, 02:46 AM
But it is not because this group is somehow morally superior to the rest of the community at large. I see lots of topics on recreational drug use, deviant sex (per some peoples definitions and some laws), even escorting, an nobody cares around here. Why?
Because it doesn't impact on anyone's bottom line or put them at risk personally. That's it. There is no great moral good being exposed on SW beyond that.
As a dancer, you should go on expressing why "extras" are bad because it does negatively effect you.
But as a customer and less interested 3rd party, as far as I'm concerned this along with so much else that happens in SCs is just another victim less crime that should be decriminalized.
Beyond that, as I have tried to get some dancers who pound on any discussion of extras and cast down thunderbolts like Zeus himself if a dancer or customer admits to being involved in any, is that it is a very slippery slope.
If people in this community don't stick together to some degree the negative stuff being thrown around can be used by others against the industry in general.
IOW, on a scale of 1-10 the 4s are casting stones at the 8s, but the 1s come along and pick up the same stones and throw them at the 4s.
Seems to me under such circumstances both the 4s and 8s are better served by looking for stones and hiding them so the 1s don't have any to throw at either.
xdamage
07-30-2008, 06:28 AM
...is that it is a very slippery slope.
It is, and I do of course understand why dancers react this way to other dancers.
First, it can put them at risk of being arrested, because apparently the vice department may make sweeps picking up anyone, even if they only observe one committing an illegal act. They can fight it of course, but it is an expense and stress they don't need. Yet we don't see many dancers arguing for decriminalization because there is more to it... see next points...
Second, they see the slope being slipped around them daily. When the slope slips, it negatively effects them. The outcome of it is in the future, their own business will decline (losing grounds to dancers who do more), or it means they will have to engage in greater levels of contact to remain competitive. History has shown that in fact, the level of contact has been slowly but surely increasing over the last 20 years. So the slope is a real one.
Third, when it comes sexual acts for money, even the more liberal among us often have a deep seated "eww, whore" response when we see people exchanging explicit sexual contact for money. Where people draw their lines is all different, but I'm becoming more and more convinced in life that this has something to do with our human nature. Sexuality is very important to us for so many reasons, and it seems we have a deep seated sense that something is wrong when it is traded like a product. But that is for a different thread...
So for all of those reasons, and probably some more, it is not surprising that dancers chastise each other for "extras".
But the end result is this is also not the place to find out the truth about what is happening in some regards. For most of us, if we get group spanked enough, we learn to just shut up about the truth, do what we are going to do anyway, but not talk about it with those who are throwing lighting bolts and brimstone at us.
Golden_Rule
07-31-2008, 03:23 AM
First, it can put them at risk of being arrested, because apparently the vice department may make sweeps picking up anyone, even if they only observe one committing an illegal act.
I can say that, in general, that is incorrect. I can say specifically for NY-NJ it is incorrect.
In NY & NJ lewdness and prostitution are offenses. That means that an arrest can not be made upon circumstantial evidence. A witness to the actual offense must come forward or the officer must witness it himself first hand.
So officers raiding a strip-club would have to witness lewdness first hand, or hear/see money change hands for a sex act to charge prostitution.
While they might catch folks with their pants down in the VIP, unless the place is recording video or the two involved [client/dancer] are foolish enough to tell the police what went on - thus becoming witnesses against themselves [Miranda is NOT required for offenses and you can, quite easily, self-incriminate when giving detailed answers to police questions in such situations] no probable cause will be reached and a warrant for arrest can not be issued.
They can detain you but they have to let you go in a reasonable period [it can be more but usually, if you can prove who you are - ID yourself - its about an hour]. At that point the detention, without probable cause to arrest, starts to become things like false arrest, etc. [Though one shouldn't go shooting their mouth off about false arrest, etc, because nothing ticks off the police more and makes them work extra hard to find something, anything, to charge against that person.]
xdamage
07-31-2008, 06:02 AM
I can say that, in general, that is incorrect. I can say specifically for NY-NJ it is incorrect.
In NY & NJ lewdness and prostitution are offenses. That means that an arrest can not be made upon circumstantial evidence. A witness to the actual offense must come forward or the officer must witness it himself first hand.
So officers raiding a strip-club would have to witness lewdness first hand, or hear/see money change hands for a sex act to charge prostitution.
That makes sense what you wrote.
I gave the re-interpreted version of what I read here, which may be based more on fear of then any reality of it, but I am sure you know the gist of it. The gist is that if Vice is looking for it, they can find cause to bust several dancers, even if they are not observed committing any illegal acts themselves. At least in the movies we would buy that as plausible Vice Squad behavior. Reality? I really don't know.
What is the real truth? I really don't know. The thing is to read the blue side (stripclubjunkie) it seems that laws are endlessly broken in strip clubs even if just in the matter of contact levels during LDs. At times I wonder if the real truth of it is more along the lines of many strippers engage in more contact then the law allows, but it's kind of like the freeway where everyone is driving 68mph in a 55mph zone. If everyone is over the limits mildly, hopefully LE will just look the other way. But if someone drives 80 mph, that draws attention. The Crotch Grab is currently a red flag ... Hey look at me! 80MPH in a 55MPH zone. But the truth is the other drives are speeding too, and if LE really attended to it, a lot of dancers could be picked up for other acts that are more contact then the law allows in their area.
Anyway, all speculation... mostly just trying to see it from the POV of if I was a dancer, the reasons why I would object to "extras" girls working in my midst.
Jay Zeno
07-31-2008, 06:20 AM
What is the real truth? I really don't know.
I don't suppose we could condense the last few thousands of words (not just yours) down to that....
PrettyCurlieQ
07-31-2008, 07:08 AM
Okay, I've seen one dancer use that to get dances, and she really wasn't getting dances to be truthful, she was a hooker who was building up her outside clientele by giving 'samples' for money in the VIP.
Golden_Rule
07-31-2008, 09:57 AM
What is the real truth? I really don't know.
Well, as a street cop/detective in the NYC area for 25 years I can tell you that the real truth comes down to two things when talking prostitution, lewd behavior, and other vice offenses [NOT crimes/felonies... offenses/misdemeanors. Crime/felonies work differently as arrests can be made on circumstantial evidence alone if it reaches the level of probable cause].
1) Either someone sees it or
2) Some lies about having seen it.
Both happen. I'd like to say that cops never lie, but that would be a lie itself. Most officers won't is the best I can offer. There are always the few...
The thing is to read the blue side (stripclubjunkie) it seems that laws are endlessly broken in strip clubs even if just in the matter of contact levels during LDs.
Sure. What most law enforcement agencies do when they want to lay the ground work for a raid in a strip-club, massage parlor, or many other types of sex industry establishments is to use under covers [UCs] or confidential informants [CIs] to enter an establishment, observe first hand the behaviors, and then use that as the basis for warrants to do searches, seizures, and arrests.
The latest high profile version of just that occurring was the raid and bust of "Hot Lap Dance" in NYC.
At times I wonder if the real truth of it is more along the lines of many strippers engage in more contact then the law allows, but it's kind of like the freeway where everyone is driving 68mph in a 55mph zone. If everyone is over the limits mildly, hopefully LE will just look the other way.
Whether it is because of shortage of manpower, not wanting to be the "sex police", or simply not wanting to be hypocritical [after all, how many cops do you think go to strip-clubs?] that is precisely what happens most of the time. As long as no one is ripping anyone off, killing or mayhem taking place, or neighbors complaining about noise or drunk customers pissing on their rose bushes the police are willing to let the rabble blow off steam and allow others to make money in the process.
This is the United States after all... sex IS capitalism. :)
xdamage
07-31-2008, 10:09 AM
Whether it is because of shortage of manpower, not wanting to be the "sex police", or simply not wanting to be hypocritical [after all, how many cops do you think go to strip-clubs?] that is precisely what happens most of the time. :)
Yea, probably all of those reasons.
Side point... humans can only police each other so much. In fact arguably that is a good thing. Laws are made by us people for us people. Laws (particularly those involving activities between consenting adults) can and do slowly change as new generations redefine their sense of limits as a whole (and even LE are ultimately people who are part of the society, yep, even members of society who go to SCs).
Ava Jadore
07-31-2008, 10:15 AM
A girl I worked with in California did the crotch grabbing thing. Until one day she did it the wrong way and squished some poor guys balls LOL. Needless to say he did not buy a dance from her.
grindonme
08-07-2008, 11:50 PM
I got the "crotch grab" my very first time in a stripclub. It was in Nashville, Tn, i walked in and was at the bar ordering a drink and this fine ass dancer came up to me squeezed my dick, smiled, said hey how you doing and then just walked off. I gotta say IT WORKED ON ME...lmaoo
LOL! I just started a thread about a chick doing this at my club in SG, and I think it's fucking nasty.
kaiarose
08-08-2008, 01:25 PM
I run my hands over a guys clothed penis during a dance, does that count as a crotch grab??!
VegasPrincess
08-08-2008, 02:16 PM
Totally agreed.
However, since I am totally aware of both my faults and short-comings but well convinced they do not devalue my worth as a human being* let me be the first man to state, categorically, I have - under circumstances I have defined previously - purchased a VIP room or lap dances due to this precise approach.
Now any who want to call me a lech or a perv... fine and dandy. They'd be wrong but its no skin off my nose for their being such. Call me a john. OK, you have me there. If you define a john though as any man who has ever paid for sex in any form, at any time, than I would bet my bank account against a C-note, and that would be very good odds, that I am in VERY good company if not the majority of the male gender in the US entirely.
*I've dealt with truly bad people. Major scum of all forms. A guy whose sole offense to humanity is he paid for a blow-job in a VIP at a strip-club doesn't even move the needle on the scumbag meter. Same can be said for the woman who sold it to him if doing so was her sole offense against society.
I must say, I totally agree with you.
xdamage
08-08-2008, 05:53 PM
I run my hands over a guys clothed penis during a dance, does that count as a crotch grab??!
Not quite the same thing since he has already bought, but close enough, and I'm sure any of the customers can tell you, it is also SOT (Standard Operating Procedure) for many dancers in many clubs. Again something I just can't get too worked up over. There are much worse things to angst over in life then this (well IMHO anyway).
Paris
08-08-2008, 06:17 PM
It can be a very effective hustle technique if employed properly. Just walking up to a guy and making a grab for his privates, is going to be startling and the instinct to protect the family jewels will kick in.
Now, if the girl had been engaging in other forms of socially acceptable touching (hand holding, caressing his knee etc.) while chatting up the customer, and then leaned in to "close the deal" while very gently grazing her hand along his crotch, this will get the customer back to VIP (or at least the ATM) the majority of the time.;)
Jenny
08-08-2008, 06:33 PM
I'm sorry all I can think of is how pissed I'd be if I grabbed a guy's crotch and then he refused a dance.
I am pretty frugal but a crotch grab gets me every time.
FBR
SportsWriter2
08-08-2008, 06:48 PM
Anyways, when the club is packed and brevity is the name of the game, I improvise and do an inner thigh grab along with, "wanna play?"
I like that. It's fun without being dirty. :)
I run my hands over a guys clothed penis during a dance...
I like that, too, for the same reason. If it's safe and makes someone feel good, do it. :)
I feel badly only when otherwise good people drift into unsafe behaviors.
GSWRD
08-08-2008, 06:54 PM
It can be a very effective hustle technique if employed properly. Just walking up to a guy and making a grab for his privates, is going to be startling and the instinct to protect the family jewels will kick in.
Now, if the girl had been engaging in other forms of socially acceptable touching (hand holding, caressing his knee etc.) while chatting up the customer, and then leaned in to "close the deal" while very gently grazing her hand along his crotch, this will get the customer back to VIP (or at least the ATM) the majority of the time.;)this would work on me 100% of the time. 8)
Paris
08-08-2008, 07:16 PM
this would work on me 100% of the time. 8)
It certainly helped me pay for my retirement;). Ahhhh, sometimes I miss dancing...
Miniman
08-08-2008, 07:50 PM
The crotch grab is just too bold, brazen and boring to be effective with me. If I wanted that, I would go look for a hooker. Give me some mystery, some enticement, fire my imagination. Then you have me hooked for multiple dances.
The crotch grab then works when a dancer becomes my favourite! :)
holiday
08-08-2008, 07:57 PM
I'm sorry all I can think of is how pissed I'd be if I grabbed a guy's crotch and then he refused a dance.
I totally agree. One of the saddest things I've seen recently was a dancer lean over a guy sitting down and do the whole dick grab on him only to have him shake his head and say no, no, no. She had to turn around and find another dick to grab.
My customers have also turned a lot of girls down after they've had it done to them (they tell me about it). So as a hustle, I don't think it's all that great of a technique.
My customers have also turned a lot of girls down after they've had it done to them (they tell me about it). So as a hustle, I don't think it's all that great of a technique.
Congratulations. You have an elite customer base. I couldn't walk in their shoes for a second. I mean, any customer who can sluff off a crotch grab and perhaps even be offended by that impropriety is a customer you should work hard to keep.
FBR
UtahMike
08-08-2008, 08:40 PM
Hmm...turning this around, could a customer grab a dancer's crotch and ask for a dance? Somehow, I think not.
Hmm...turning this around, could a customer grab a dancer's crotch and ask for a dance? Somehow, I think not.Mike um maybe but you would be taking a risk. I know this is rhetorical.
I know a few dancers who wouldn't mind but most I know prefer a more subtle approach. I mean, the end result is the same but there is still an appreciation of proper gamesmanship.
FBR
UtahMike
08-08-2008, 08:51 PM
I bet I would draw back a bloody stump, except if it were Jenny. She would rip my throat out.
holiday
08-09-2008, 06:49 AM
Congratulations. You have an elite customer base. I couldn't walk in their shoes for a second. I mean, any customer who can sluff off a crotch grab and perhaps even be offended by that impropriety is a customer you should work hard to keep.
FBR
Well I do keep my customers pretty sprung on me ;D so another dancer could do a lot of things and get turned down.
BUT, I did witness a completely random customer turning a girl down. SO. The method isn't 100% successful.
Makenzie
08-09-2008, 06:58 AM
T-r-a-s-h-y!
Jenny
08-09-2008, 07:00 AM
T-r-a-s-h-y!
I'm shocked too, but let's try to be nice about it and stick to critiquing the behaviour and not characterizing the people who do it. I mean, these types of conversations are always difficult, there is no point in making them more so.