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Jenny
09-06-2008, 08:11 AM
I actually like the expression Pathetic Winner. I think that is really cute; like "think outside the box, people."

Golden_Rule
09-06-2008, 10:56 PM
Could be GR. In theory what you wrote sounds good. I mean we could imagine, what if sex workers and customers treated this exchange no differently then a musician playing for an audience, one the entertainer, one the entertainee, it is a symbiotic relationship.

Precisely. In essence that is really all that it actually is.


But the reality seems to be this is rarely the case. It looks like we humans tend to have a lot of deep, possibly the deepest in us, feelings associated with sex. Could be this is our human nature, buried in our multi-hundred million year old genes, and almost as surely as we will feel strong emotions about our children, most have the same about sex.

It is our human nature, but I think it has little to do with genetics.

We, to a very large extent, create our own reality. Things are what we make of them. When you have suspicion, guilt and poor public perception [stigma] brought into what goes on in SCs, is it any wonder it is what it is?

It's a entertainment/service industry. You wouldn't have this baggage in a fine dining establishment with a good chef cooking a meal. People being people though... Point is its all kind of pointless. It shouldn't be a problem for two grown people, one presenting a service or entertainment, the other purchasing, both with mutual consent, to go about their business. And it wouldn't be, if we were talking about a different kind of entertainment or service.

Casual Observer
09-07-2008, 07:00 AM
We are all PLs because they do to us, profitably, what we cannot do to them. And that is separate us from our money and yet at the same time give us nothing of lasting value. We have no respect from them as a consquence, hence the moniker.

This presumes too much; the whole point of an SC visit (for me at least) is a temporal experience. I'm not looking for a girlfriend or even a quick fuck, merely a distraction and a change of scenery. I have no interest in taking the SC with me when I leave. Obviously, I consider OTC arrangements different, but there's nothing inherently wrong with enjoying the SC for what it is (or at least should be)--uncomplicated entertainment.

3-Legged Man
09-07-2008, 07:15 AM
I'm agreeing with CO here. I'm not looking for a full-service experience or a real-life girlfriend. I just want some good times and pleasant memories that will hopefully resurface from time to time in my dreams. Hoping for any more might qualify me for the PL title.

xdamage
09-07-2008, 07:33 AM
It is our human nature, but I think it has little to do with genetics.

We, to a very large extent, create our own reality. Things are what we make of them.

See, I think the opposite. Animals also have behaviors when it comes to sex and how pairs do/don't bond, and the behaviors are statistically so significant it goes beyond just being random chance (by many orders of magnitude). Shall we blaim that on animal society? We sure don't blaim their other behaviors on "society". I think our brains are literally wired this way, and while in large populations there are bound to be exceptions (e.g., just like homosexuality is an exception), it is not the way the majority is wired. Our intellects can override our instincts, but I think the instincts are still there.

---

Also take an example. Suppose Britney Spears (or pick any female musician) has a BF. Suppose the BF says "I am going to go hear [fill in blank] other singer in concert." Now chances are Britney is not going to freak out about it. The vast majority of us can relate to the notion that it's okay for someone to be close to a musical entertainer, and also enjoy other musician's music.

Now replace Britney with a Stripper or Prostitute, and see how many are cool with their BFs going on and spending money to enjoy other entertainers in the same profession. The vast majority (including the women on SW) are quite strongly against it, or even if they would tolerate a stripper, no way a prostitute. Not even prostitutes would be happy about it.

But see there really is a difference between creating music for entertainment, and having sex for entertainment. For one, music doesn't won't ever get you pregnant with a child requiring 16+ years to raise. Music won't give you a disease.

For another, we have a world full of people whose bodies and genes are wired to make them sexually capable by early teens. Musicians are the rarity, whereas everyone is (minus the genetically damaged) sexually capable and competing for mates. Music is pure luxury, but sexual reproduction is serious business in the animal world and among humans.

To me, recognizing that sexuality is core to our genetic beings clears up all discussions like this. When we accept that humans have sexual instincts just like animals do, it is clear why humans have such quandaries with selling it like a product.

I see instinctual behavior in much of what humans do. It can be confusing because exceptions exist in large groups, but we humans have learned (incorrectly) that understanding human nature can be found in the exceptions. It is based on the currently popular, but I believe false premise that everything humans do is "learned" and so we were taught if you find the exceptions, you can see how humans could behave sans social training. I use to think so too. Not anymore. I see it now exactly the opposite.

We humans have a very strong nature, just like animals, and the exceptions often are just that, exceptions. Sometimes they are genetic aberrations. Sometimes trained ones, but those unusual cases do not mean humans don't have an underlying nature. It is sort of like trying to understand cars by looking at the ones that have broken or modified parts. It is a piss poor way to understand the design behind the majority of cars. Even if many have been modified to have an extra large exhaust pipe, it doesn't mean all cars can or should have an extra large exhaust pipe. Likewise, looking at say swingers, or homosexuals, or sex workers that don't care what their mates do is not a good way to understand the nature of the common person. There is nothing wrong with exceptions, but they will probably never be the norm.

Bob_Loblaw
09-07-2008, 12:56 PM
I actually like the expression Pathetic Winner. I think that is really cute; like "think outside the box, people."
Needs work. PW just doesn't roll off the tongue like PL and P-dub doesn't have a nice ring to it.

bem401
09-08-2008, 01:24 PM
Needs work. PW just doesn't roll off the tongue like PL and P-dub doesn't have a nice ring to it.

And PW already means "pussy-whipped". wait, maybe that will work after all.

threlayer
09-08-2008, 07:29 PM
We are all PLs because they do to us, profitably, what we cannot do to them. And that is separate us from our money and yet at the same time give us nothing of lasting value. We have no respect from them as a consquence, hence the moniker. This presumes too much; the whole point of an SC visit (for me at least) is a temporal experience. I'm not looking for a girlfriend or even a quick fuck, merely a distraction and a change of scenery. I have no interest in taking the SC with me when I leave. Obviously, I consider OTC arrangements different, but there's nothing inherently wrong with enjoying the SC for what it is (or at least should be)--uncomplicated entertainment.

I see I made a big mistake in my phrasing "We have no respect from them as a consquence, hence the moniker." It should have been "They have no respect from us as a consquence, hence the moniker." You are with a dancer that doesn't know you, and you get the same stuff that newbies get. This is because of their assumptions. I'm not really talking about what we get to take home (memories?), but how we customers are treated because in general we are treated as pathetic losers. And in general we are. We cannot tell the difference between the fantasies foisted on us and the reality we think we need. This applies generally but of course not to every dancer or customer, especially after some of them get to know some of us.

xdamage
09-10-2008, 04:57 AM
...I'm not really talking about what we get to take home (memories?), but how we customers are treated because in general we are treated as pathetic losers. And in general we are. We cannot tell the difference between the fantasies foisted on us and the reality we think we need. This applies generally but of course not to every dancer or customer, especially after some of them get to know some of us.

Well there is a bit of a parallel here with another common vice, gambling.

Basically the image you are painting here (not disagreeing, just amplifying it a bit) is somewhat like the Casino Owners looking down on the patrons for over spending in his Casino based on delusions. "Stupid gamblers! They just give me all of their money instead of investing it wisely!" While at the same time the Casino owners are actively encouraging the delusions and profiting from it.*

Looked at from that POV, that would not make the Casino owner a saint in the eyes of the common person. He might get praises for cashing in on an opportunity, but probably not for his person or morale standards.

But still Casino owners and Gamblers need each other. One cannot exist without the other.

The quandaries make complete sense of course if we understand one thing. We humans want what we want and adjust our POV accordingly, and part of what we want is to see ourselves in the best possible light. That simple fact leads to Casino owners and Patrons with different goals, some of which are at odds with each other, and some of which leaving them feeling hostile towards each other. They reconcile this in their own minds by adjusting their POV, but from a neutral 3rd party POV, they are in symbiotic relationship.

* p.s. Note that strangely, on some level, patrons want Casinos to try and delude them. We patrons want to really believe that we can win the jack pot. Therefore it is not as simple as simply seeing the Casino owners a villain. The Casino owner is, on some level, giving people what they want. The only comical point is while doing it would be the Casino owner who looks down on his patrons for wanting to be deluded while actively giving it to them and profiting from it. Funny only because the Casino owner imagines himself to be a superior human being.

whitelight97402
09-10-2008, 01:46 PM
I actually like the expression Pathetic Winner. I think that is really cute; like "think outside the box, people."

+1

yeah really, i love dancers, escorts and porn. It would be awsome if i could get what i need for free out in the real world, but i can't get nearly enough and I don't care what anyone thinks. Also, I have dated enough smoking hot but manipulative and mean spirited dancers to know that they treat everyone like that even the people they care about. It isn't you doing anything wrong, you are getting the best they have to offer right there at the club. Treating everyone like a PL somehow seems to make them feel better about themselves, so fuck 'em, afterall I am a pathetic winner!

Want to label me a looser because i stop at the club a few nights a week? I can afford it, the real PL is the insecure dancer's BF barely holding down a job, putting up with her bullshit and valuing himself based upon his relationship with her. The PL is a guy who hangs onto a relationship because he is afraid to go put himself into the game again. The PL never asks the dancer for her number and goes along with whatever she tells him. It isn't like your average pissed-off hot dancer is such the amazing person outside the club (or even at the club), most are a thin veil of beauty and hustle disguising nothing and I am enjoying the best she has to offer, that makes me a pathetic winner!

Escorts f'n rock! God bless them! Especialy in Germany, lol. The FKK clubs are just awsome! Those woman are as sexy and sexier then anything in the states and for the price of a couple lap dances you can actually get what you really want. Plus, most are set up like spas and it is fun to just hang out and relax.

I really don't get the bullshit morality card we like to deal in this country concerning escorts. Guys who think they are somehow 'cooler' or 'better' because they don't see escorts yet pay a fortune to have a woman grind on your privates and fill your head with complete bullshit, what the fuck is that? It is totally cool if providing is a boundary for a dancer or a customer, that isn't my point, please do only what you wish, but you aren't superior in anyway. Escorts leave me feeling revitalized, affirmed and grateful, lap dances are usually a total waste of dollars, looking at naked chicks is fun and I'll tip your stage, but honestly I'd rather be fucking and I will tell you so.

Finally, I have had plenty of hot girlfriends, some cool, some high maintenance. I can't get every woman i meet, hell I can't get even close to the majority of woman I meet and yes getting validation in the real world is great, but since i don't look like Brad Pitt or have Donald Trumps money, mixing fantasy and reality makes life more exciting!

So when I can feel that vibe from the hot stripper at the club, thinking she is such a great hustler, telling me some bullshit story and sensing her thinking I am easy prey, then hating on me cause i don't want dances, seriously, enjoy the moment, they are numbered, I am not going to apologize or think less of myself for having a blast and getting exactly what I want.

threlayer
09-11-2008, 12:49 PM
Well there is a bit of a parallel here with another common vice, gambling.
...
But still Casino owners and Gamblers need each other. One cannot exist without the other.
...
That simple fact leads to Casino owners and Patrons with different goals, some of which are at odds with each other, and some of which leaving them feeling hostile towards each other. They reconcile this in their own minds by adjusting their POV, but from a neutral 3rd party POV, they are in symbiotic relationship.

* p.s. Note that strangely, on some level, patrons want Casinos to try and delude them. We patrons want to really believe that we can win the jack pot. Therefore it is not as simple as simply seeing the Casino owners a villain. The Casino owner is, on some level, giving people what they want.... Funny only because the Casino owner imagines himself to be a superior human being.

XD, This is a good metaphor. Another one is drug dealers and drug addicts. For obvious reasons.

Chili Palmer
09-11-2008, 05:02 PM
So when I can feel that vibe from the hot stripper at the club, thinking she is such a great hustler, telling me some bullshit story and sensing her thinking I am easy prey, then hating on me cause i don't want dances, seriously, enjoy the moment, they are numbered, I am not going to apologize or think less of myself for having a blast and getting exactly what I want.

This entire post rocked. Whoever is screening the n00bs here lately deserves a fucken bonus. Great post.

CP

xdamage
09-11-2008, 05:34 PM
Here this could be fun:


You are a loser because the only way you're getting some of this [fill in blank with choice A] is for [fill in the blank with choice B].

Anyone who would trade [fill in blank with choice A] for [fill in the blank with choice B] is a loser.

If you were really a winner, you could get [fill in blank with choice A] without having to give up [fill in the blank with choice B] for it.

I only give away [fill in blank with choice A] to people I really care about.

Choose from:

A. My Body, Sex, Affection

B. Money, Gifts, Other Compensation

or the other way around...

A. Money, Gifts, Other Compensation

B. My Body, Sex, Affection

cadenceq
09-11-2008, 11:34 PM
There's Regular Patrons - Guys who go in for a good time. To spend a bit of money, have a few drinks, and get some attention from hot girls. Basically, a strip club is a strip club to them.

Pathetic Losers - Obnoxious men who are mean to the girls (re - insecure in themselves).
- Men who think they can "pick up". We want your money, not your cock.
- Men who travel in packs and try to impress their mates at our expense. Grabbing our ass and hollowing "you'd fuck me right?" puts you in the loser category.

Golden_Rule
09-12-2008, 07:09 AM
Here this could be fun:


You are a loser because the only way you're getting some of this [fill in blank with choice A] is for [fill in the blank with choice B].

Anyone who would trade [fill in blank with choice A] for [fill in the blank with choice B] is a loser.

If you were really a winner, you could get [fill in blank with choice A] without having to give up [fill in the blank with choice B] for it.

I only give away [fill in blank with choice A] to people I really care about.

Choose from:

A. My Body, Sex, Affection

B. Money, Gifts, Other Compensation

or the other way around...

A. Money, Gifts, Other Compensation

B. My Body, Sex, Affection

I don't see how that could work because it would then include anyone who provides a service for money.

I like eating in fine dining establishments [hell, I like eating :) ]. I wouldn't want a chef with an attitude like that.

I pay for sex, as I have said before, because I recognize that it is rarely, if ever, giving away for free. There are almost always social encumbrances that are given in exchange for access to a woman’s body. Other than with my lovely wife I just assume keep it to a strictly cash transaction.

Paid for sex doesn’t generally leave me feeling “revitalized” as whitelight describes it does for him. It does leave me feeling sated though. The way, after going out and having a good meal when I am hungry, leaves me feeling.

I don’t generally patronize escorts though. I have nothing against them but they do tend to bring a professional's detachment to the proceedings. The “I’m just here to do my job” sort of thing. Can’t blame them for that, as that is precisely what they are doing.

I see dancers outside of their clubs for paid liaisons. The reason is simple. Since they refuse to acknowledge that what is taking place is prostitution they can't very well act like prostitutes [at least not most of the time]. Thus they tend to act with less detachment and I get better quality sex than I would from an escort who was simply doing her job [no, Yoda, I am not saying you can’t get high quality sex from escorts and I am sure you do just fine the way YOU do things. I just find this works better for me].

Golden_Rule
09-12-2008, 07:36 AM
Pathetic Losers - Obnoxious men who are mean to the girls (re - insecure in themselves).

I don't know if I'd say that simply has to do with any personal insecurity they might have, but I doubt anyone can fault your logic on this particular point. I would add though that it works both ways.


Men who think they can "pick up". We want your money, not your cock.

Depends on what you mean, because clearly there are all sorts of examples explicitly suggesting the opposite. Mostly when the cock in question has a string directly attached to money of sufficient amount to make the cock it is attached to appealing in some way.

That isn’t to say there is anything wrong with that. If done with mutual consent and respect there is nothing you, I or anyone else should heap upon those involved. It is their right to do with their bodies, and their money, precisely as they please. Same as you or anyone else.



Men who travel in packs and try to impress their mates at our expense. Grabbing our ass and hollowing "you'd fuck me right?" puts you in the loser category.

OK, here we are back at the top again. No one can fault anyone for thinking that someone who deliberately tries to raise themselves by lowering someone else is anything but a vile pig of a person. That would apply to anyone. Including dancers who do the same to customers.

yoda57us
09-12-2008, 07:42 AM
[no, Yoda, I am not saying you can’t get high quality sex from escorts and I am sure you do just fine the way YOU do things. I just find this works better for me].

GR, you spend far too much time worrying about how I am going to respond to your particular feelings on who provides the best paid sex.

Golden_Rule
09-13-2008, 08:49 AM
GR, you spend far too much time worrying about how I am going to respond to your particular feelings on who provides the best paid sex.

I really am a tough read for you, aren't I? :)

This time it is you that needs to lighten up. I put that in parathasis with tongue playfully planted firmly in cheek to 1) respectfully acknowledge that I know you feel differently about it, and 2) to say it before you could. :)

wishing well...

xdamage
09-13-2008, 11:00 AM
I don't see how that could work because it would then include anyone who provides a service for money.

The sentences work well when what is on one side is money and the other side a sexual service. Society as a whole tends to view both providers and customers as losers. Providers are "whores" and "johns" are viewed as perhaps a bit better, but still loathsome (or at least mock worthy if caught) on some level.

But again, that is sex for money.

I for example don't particularly like our customers sometimes, they are needy, wanty, expect their request to be our top priority, and so on, but I also don't see them as losers for it. I understand them because in some cases I am the customers. In fact we are happy to have them. Without them, we would not have jobs.

And yes, most restaurant owners are happy to have customers. Most entertainers are happy to have fans. But again.. sex is not being exchanged.

When it comes to sex, it is apparent people tend to see it quit a bit different then they do other entertainment and products.


I think I told the story before, but one day over drinks in Vegas I was talking with 20 something women from our Netherlands office. The topic of strippers came up. Both were like "Eww, next job is WHORE!" Now these are liberal 20 something women. Tattoos, piercings, think they are liberal, live in a society that promotes the notion that prostitution is "just a job". That is fine, but emotionally, they still react just like most people. Something about trading sex for money just isn't the same as other services or products.

erotictonic
09-13-2008, 12:18 PM
Honestly, I think you guys are less pathetic than a lot of the dancers, at least you are realistic .... and I don't understand why you guys just don't go get a gf instead of going to sc's....but I suppose it's a choice made for individual and personal reasons.

erotictonic
09-13-2008, 12:48 PM
The sentences work well when what is on one side is money and the other side a sexual service. Society as a whole tends to view both providers and customers as losers. Providers are "whores" and "johns" are viewed as perhaps a bit better, but still loathsome (or at least mock worthy if caught) on some level.

But again, that is sex for money.

I for example don't particularly like our customers sometimes, they are needy, wanty, expect their request to be our top priority, and so on, but I also don't see them as losers for it. I understand them because in some cases I am the customers. In fact we are happy to have them. Without them, we would not have jobs.

And yes, most restaurant owners are happy to have customers. Most entertainers are happy to have fans. But again.. sex is not being exchanged.

When it comes to sex, it is apparent people tend to see it quit a bit different then they do other entertainment and products.


I think I told the story before, but one day over drinks in Vegas I was talking with 20 something women from our Netherlands office. The topic of strippers came up. Both were like "Eww, next job is WHORE!" Now these are liberal 20 something women. Tattoos, piercings, think they are liberal, live in a society that promotes the notion that prostitution is "just a job". That is fine, but emotionally, they still react just like most people. Something about trading sex for money just isn't the same as other services or products.

I think it's an ingrained belief placed in women in the US. They're uptight about sex.

I know a woman who came from Russia, and she has no qualms giving handjobs frequently, or thinking it's disgusting or wrong (and she Is quite intelligent).

Personally, I don't have any feelings that way, but I've done a whole heckuva lot of self-help and therapy for the past 4 years....and I have a lot of conservative ideals....

I also think it has something to do with the fact that christianity is the main religion followed in the US, and it pushes the idea that being a whore or a john is wrong. That stuff rubs off even on people who are not Christians. And most of my generation I think were taught by their mothers that sex outside of marriage is wrong.... leading to that thought being ingrained, and unless one works to get rid of it, it's there nevertheless. It's conditioned. I know a prostitute who comes from a place of pretty clear eyes and pretty good mental health and morals. That's not the case a lot of times, and I think a lot of people associate being a whore with doing other things that are considered honestly wrong or unhealthy, and with not really doing much else that contributes to society as a whole. (How many times have you met a stripper who is productive in other areas of their lives, for example, or who gives unconditionally to others)? I know one and she is a whore.

I admit that if I was not in a relationship, I would have sex with who I wanted to and feel ok with that. My one thing would be that I would have to like the person and make a connection with them. Also, I would probably give gloved handjobs to custies, and be completely ok with that... as long as it's safe, I don't see a reason not to. I still have some personal hangups with having sex with johns... there is still the unconscious belief inside my head that it is disgusting, and I think I would probably feel disgusting as a result of that....but I don't think it's wrong. I just think I was conditioned.

The beliefs I was fed left me in a precarious position when I went to be a stripper. I had to somehow twist things in order to believe I was something I was not, in order to be able to do it, because somewhere in there, I believed the people who thought I was disgusting were right.

erotictonic
09-13-2008, 12:59 PM
I'm also thinking that the fact that I don't want to have sex with anyone I don't like has something to do with it. I think it's probably unhealthy for our states of mind to have sex with someone we don't like, and that induces a feeling of disgust.... I'm not sure how a healthy male would feel about it, but my bf I know has said, "what does it matter? if you both enjoy the sex, why does it matter who the person is you are doing it with." Then again, would I really feel ok about having sex with Charles Manson? lol. At this point, I just can't agree. And I suppose it comes down to the fact that some of you guys would hire girls you hate to dance, and I just can't understand that. I don't want to see a girl dance that I hate... and that's coming from a place of unhealthy mind. Of course, I don't want to be in unhealthy mind, and some of you don't care whether you are or not.

xdamage
09-13-2008, 01:23 PM
I'm also thinking that the fact that I don't want to have sex with anyone I don't like has something to do with it. I think it's probably unhealthy for our states of mind to have sex with someone we don't like, and that induces a feeling of disgust.... I'm not sure how a healthy male would feel about it, but my bf I know has said, "what does it matter? if you both enjoy the sex, why does it matter who the person is you are doing it with." Then again, would I really feel ok about having sex with Charles Manson? lol. At this point, I just can't agree. And I suppose it comes down to the fact that some of you guys would hire girls you hate to dance, and I just can't understand that. I don't want to see a girl dance that I hate... and that's coming from a place of unhealthy mind. Of course, I don't want to be in unhealthy mind, and some of you don't care whether you are or not.

I think you are saying, for many people, our emotions and sex are not separable for us. If so, I agree. Products and entertainment we can do with or without emotions, but sex, not everyone can separate them.

erotictonic
09-13-2008, 01:26 PM
I think you are saying, for many people, our emotions and sex are not separable for us. If so, I agree. Products and entertainment we can do with or without emotions, but sex, not everyone can separate them.


True, and I am wondering why.... if it has to do with beliefs ingrained, or if it has to do with nature.

misspthesweetesttaboo
09-13-2008, 02:44 PM
W I couldn't give two shits, because I'm the one there at the club having a blast of a time while all the girls are struggling to BEG for money with this current economy and I'm kinda smooth sailing...
- slims }:D


:D lmao! what kinda shit is that!

misspthesweetesttaboo
09-13-2008, 02:45 PM
I actually like the expression Pathetic Winner. I think that is really cute; like "think outside the box, people."

;D

I like!

doc-catfish
09-13-2008, 03:21 PM
and I don't understand why you guys just don't go get a gf instead of going to sc's....
Because an SO you have an emotional attachment to, and a sex worker you have a fleeting dalliance with are two completely different things.

'Lest we remember, a decent percentage of the guys here are married.

erotictonic
09-13-2008, 03:33 PM
Because an SO you have an emotional attachment to, and a sex worker you have a fleeting dalliance with are two completely different things.

'Lest we remember, a decent percentage of the guys here are married.

Ahhh, you want flings with no attachments, and a wife.... does the wife know?

misspthesweetesttaboo
09-13-2008, 03:36 PM
Ahhh, you want flings with no attachments, and a wife.... does the wife know?



:rotfl:

erotictonic
09-13-2008, 03:40 PM
:rotfl:

LOL... I'm just seeing what he will say.

doc-catfish
09-13-2008, 03:48 PM
Ahhh, you want flings with no attachments, and a wife.... does the wife know?
Don't know. Don't have one. If I did get married, the hobby would likely have to cease if only for financial reasons.

erotictonic
09-13-2008, 03:52 PM
Don't know. Don't have one. If I did get married, the hobby would likely have to cease if only for financial reasons.

Ohh, I took it you were married....

hockeybobby
09-13-2008, 04:24 PM
Ahhh, you want flings with no attachments, and a wife.... does the wife know?

Uh-oh, we've got another one...Hey Bob, where is that shit-disturber smiley of yours?

jk et :D

bsteve
09-13-2008, 10:23 PM
I more or less am just curious to understand why people go.... or why they feel a drive to go, when they have someone to fulfill their sexual needs. Or I suppose one gf doesn't fulfill some people's sexual needs, ...

Going to SCs does not fulfill my sexual needs. Only my wife does that. And she is wonderful about it. She is my one and only. The day that I use SCs to fulfill my sexual needs is the day I stop going to SCs.

But I do like to visit SCs. A couple of months ago I made a conscious decision to devote time and money to visiting SCs. A hobby if you will. Why? Because (1) I evaluated what in my life is important to me, and this hobby seems to be more rewarding than others, (2) for the past 20 years I’ve been averting my eyes whenever a scantily dressed beautiful woman walks down the street; I am tired of having to avert my eyes -- I want to look, darn it, and SC will be happy to provide such a setting; (3) finally I can afford dropping a few hundred every couple of weeks with out worrying about it; and (4) my wife is cool with it.

yoda57us
09-13-2008, 10:43 PM
I really am a tough read for you, aren't I? :)

This time it is you that needs to lighten up. I put that in parathasis with tongue playfully planted firmly in cheek to 1) respectfully acknowledge that I know you feel differently about it, and 2) to say it before you could. :)

wishing well...

As much as I am amused by your attempts at a parenthetic preemptive strike I made my point on this topic once already. I really had no intention of making it again.

Tough read? LMAO, you are the one responding to words that you think I am going to post...

You are a never-ending source of amusement to me GR...

erotictonic
09-13-2008, 10:50 PM
Well, I figure some people just think:

I feel like having sex. I'll go to an sc and get it.

End of story. There is no big comparison or strategy. It's an easy place to find what you are looking for.

End of story.

erotictonic
09-13-2008, 10:53 PM
Going to SCs does not fulfill my sexual needs. Only my wife does that. And she is wonderful about it. She is my one and only. The day that I use SCs to fulfill my sexual needs is the day I stop going to SCs.

But I do like to visit SCs. A couple of months ago I made a conscious decision to devote time and money to visiting SCs. A hobby if you will. Why? Because (1) I evaluated what in my life is important to me, and this hobby seems to be more rewarding than others, (2) for the past 20 years I’ve been averting my eyes whenever a scantily dressed beautiful woman walks down the street; I am tired of having to avert my eyes -- I want to look, darn it, and SC will be happy to provide such a setting; (3) finally I can afford dropping a few hundred every couple of weeks with out worrying about it; and (4) my wife is cool with it.

I think I'm getting you. I have a friend who loves to look and his wife is cool with that, and participates in girl-watching. He wouldn't cheat, though. Not in anything that mattered.

Bob_Loblaw
09-13-2008, 11:23 PM
Uh-oh, we've got another one...Hey Bob, where is that shit-disturber smiley of yours?
You rang?
http://www.therevolvingdoor.net/forums/images/smilies/577282585490.gif

erotictonic
09-13-2008, 11:58 PM
You rang?
http://www.therevolvingdoor.net/forums/images/smilies/577282585490.gif

hahaha good image.

xdamage
09-14-2008, 11:03 AM
True, and I am wondering why.... if it has to do with beliefs ingrained, or if it has to do with nature.

I think some of both.

Golden_Rule
09-14-2008, 11:54 AM
Honestly, I think you guys are less pathetic than a lot of the dancers, at least you are realistic .... and I don't understand why you guys just don't go get a gf instead of going to sc's....but I suppose it's a choice made for individual and personal reasons.

Thank you.

To my way of thinking the only pathetic people involved in any of this are those who either are doing it who don't want to be doing it, in which case it is sad as well as pathetic, and those who let it run away with them and lose the big picture and thus their best view of reality.


======


Many of us have girl-friends, lovers, wives, etc. I myself have a wife I am crazy about, grown kids and grand [and grand is what they are :) ] children.

When I go to a strip-club its a lark. Its something to add a little jazz to the day. That's all. I don't live within them. If they disappeared tomorrow I'd miss them but it wouldn't make a big dent in my life. I'd find something to replace their small part in what makes up the whole fabric of how I entertain myself.

I've said this before but I'll say it again here. The healthiest way to view SCs is one of many condiments available to season a plate that makes up a stable, sane and secure life. Salt, in large amounts, isn't good for you but a little bit of it makes foods taste richer. Pepper in large amounts would make you sick, but just enough of it makes the plate a bit spicy.

You get the idea, I am sure. :)

wishing well...

Golden_Rule
09-14-2008, 12:03 PM
You are a never-ending source of amusement to me GR...

Likewise, Yoda.

I think it just grand that we can put a smile on each other's face.

I truly do. :D

yoda57us
09-14-2008, 05:16 PM
Likewise, Yoda.

I think it just grand that we can put a smile on each other's face.

I truly do. :D

Well GR, I wouldn't assume that it is always a smile...but it is entertaining nonetheless...

xdamage
09-14-2008, 06:45 PM
T...

Many of us have girl-friends, lovers, wives, etc. ...

When I go to a strip-club its a lark. Its something to add a little jazz to the day. That's all. I don't live within them.

Same for most of us I think. I mean why do we go out to eat when we can (and do) cook at home. Change of pace. Something different. A break from the everyday reality. But again see there you go.

Our SOs don't care if we enjoy their cooking, make our own, or go out to eat. It's all good. But not all SOs are okay with their guy going out to get some sexual entertainment outside the home.

erotictonic
09-14-2008, 10:53 PM
Same for most of us I think. I mean why do we go out to eat when we can (and do) cook at home. Change of pace. Something different. A break from the everyday reality. But again see there you go.

Our SOs don't care if we enjoy their cooking, make our own, or go out to eat. It's all good. But not all SOs are okay with their guy going out to get some sexual entertainment outside the home.

So find one that does....then again, some take the easiest route, not the smartest.

erotictonic
09-14-2008, 11:02 PM
So find one that does....then again, some take the easiest route, not the smartest.

Then again, it's more of a "it's just there, and it accepts" route, than the easiest to navigate and more permanent road.

Example/ If I like sc's, and I also do the work and sacrifice some time, I can find a woman who also knows and accepts and maybe even joins in my fun. But if I choose the woman who is accepting of my ways but I have to do a million things around that and lie, then that becomes more work in the long run. That is unless I am getting something out of that, such as enjoying seeing her in misery or knowing I am in control and I can have my cake and eat it too...then you are at risk for her getting sick of the neglect and bailing, whereas a girl who knows and enjoys is a more permanent and happier option, from my pov. I suppose one would have to be in misery or in a place of not caring or in a place of enjoying someone else's misery to enjoy being in the place of lying about it.

xdamage
09-15-2008, 02:06 AM
So find one that does....then again, some take the easiest route, not the smartest.

Actually I think this is a case of even though it seems like this is obvious, we have to look at how people really behave en-mass, not how we wish they would. I think it is like the case of cigarette smoking and the labels on the packs.

Obviously putting warning labels on the packs of cigarettes does not stop smoking, but there is an even deeper truth... the companies that sell cigarettes also really don't want people to stop either. And nor do strippers really want men to behave as they say, not if it means the money would decrease dramatically.

In this case the reality is at least as complex and if men really acted in ways that women object too (much like if people really honored the labels on those cigarettes) strippers (and very likely women in general) would be about as happy as Philip Morris Execs would be if the public stopped being morally weak and giving into their temptations to smoke.

Men behave in certain ways, true, but women have had a 50% part in shaping that reality... that is the nature of evolution and genes and societies. And people... often they want multiple things at odds with each other, but women really have taken a part in breeding and training males to behave as they do, and while they say one thing (like putting labels on the cigarette pack), they have other wants as well.

FWIW, cheating is by no means unique to males. Women do it too, a lot, apparently all through history. See Sperm Wars by Robin Baker for a fascinating read.

Individually you may find individuals who choose not to smoke, but honestly the warning label approach while still profiting from smokers will never stop smoking. If we really wanted to stop it, it would take laws to prohibit it and even then some will cheat and find ways to imbibe (just as some would find ways to cheat in relationships). This is us... we humans, not always apparently good or strong, but it is what works, and was the fittest in an evolutionary sense.

erotictonic
09-15-2008, 02:52 AM
Actually I think this is a case of even though it seems like this is obvious, we have to look at how people really behave en-mass, not how we wish they would. I think it is like the case of cigarette smoking and the labels on the packs.

Obviously putting warning labels on the packs of cigarettes does not stop smoking, but there is an even deeper truth... the companies that sell cigarettes also really don't want people to stop either. And nor do strippers really want men to behave as they say, not if it means the money would decrease dramatically.

In this case the reality is at least as complex and if men really acted in ways that women object too (much like if people really honored the labels on those cigarettes) strippers (and very likely women in general) would be about as happy as Philip Morris Execs would be if the public stopped being morally weak and giving into their temptations to smoke.

Men behave in certain ways, true, but women have had a 50% part in shaping that reality... that is the nature of evolution and genes and societies. And people... often they want multiple things at odds with each other, but women really have taken a part in breeding and training males to behave as they do, and while they say one thing (like putting labels on the cigarette pack), they have other wants as well.

FWIW, cheating is by no means unique to males. Women do it too, a lot, apparently all through history. See Sperm Wars by Robin Baker for a fascinating read.

Individually you may find individuals who choose not to smoke, but honestly the warning label approach while still profiting from smokers will never stop smoking. If we really wanted to stop it, it would take laws to prohibit it and even then some will cheat and find ways to imbibe (just as some would find ways to cheat in relationships). This is us... we humans, not always apparently good or strong, but it is what works, and was the fittest in an evolutionary sense.

So what you are saying is the wives really want their husbands to go to sc's (or to seek outside interests)? I see the pov.... and I've heard it before.

BUT regardless of what my bf WANTS me to do, isn't it me who is in control? Therefore, if I WANT a guy who likes sc's, that's what I am going to look for and not settle for anything that will be a big pain in the ass to me.

I don't disagree with you in a lot of ways, BUT I do think that instead of settling that we do find the ones who aren't so difficult to deal with, and aren't unhealthy and then say they had a part in my own unhealthiness... no, I chose it, because I wanted the rewards (other unhealthy people to fuck and have relationships with).

xdamage
09-15-2008, 08:28 PM
So what you are saying is the wives really want their husbands to go to sc's (or to seek outside interests)? I see the pov.... and I've heard it before.

BUT regardless of what my bf WANTS me to do, isn't it me who is in control? Therefore, if I WANT a guy who likes sc's, that's what I am going to look for and not settle for anything that will be a big pain in the ass to me.

I don't disagree with you in a lot of ways, BUT I do think that instead of settling that we do find the ones who aren't so difficult to deal with, and aren't unhealthy and then say they had a part in my own unhealthiness... no, I chose it, because I wanted the rewards (other unhealthy people to fuck and have relationships with).

No no no...

Look, everytime we have polled strippers, and asked, is it okay if your BFs and Husbands blow a wad of cash on strippers, so you can get sexually stimulated vs spending that on me, the vast (95%) plus says HELL NO.

People want what they want. It is that simple. Strippers want money no matter what relationship the guy is in. Guys want their GFs and SOs to be faithful but they want other women to be willing to cheat. Women want faithful men, but they also want it when when flrt and make advances on them even if they are in a relationship. The list goes on.

As soon as you wipe away the BS and see people as essentially self serving their behavior makes complete sense and so does their logic.

Cheating sucks but frankly it is NOT the worst of all possible evils, except to some. Most dislike it but human behavior is vastly more complex.

And in terms of PLs vs Strippers. My belief is if every dollar spent at the SC was pre-approved by SOs, strippers would see total expenditures drop to by a factor of 10 (i.e., 1/10th spent total). Seriously. Just like if everyone stopped using drugs except safely, drug dealers would HATE the result. Same with gambling.

Strippers just dont want to admit it because it isn't entirely flattering. They make the vast majority of their money off precisely the behavior they call loser behavior and would never tolerate from their own SOs (in general).

Lets stop lying to ourselves.

xdamage
09-15-2008, 08:41 PM
Here is the problem in a nutshell.

If you ask the guys on blue, are you a cheater, they just say YES. My SO hates the idea of me spending money I could be spending on her to grind on my dick and sexually simulating. I suck, but that is me.

As the dancer, and how many have the balls to just admit, yep, I make a fortune of guys who are essentially cheating on their SOs but I dont give a shit. I want my money and as long as I benefit, that is all I really care about it. But if it was my SO, no fucking way I'd be okay with it. Thus I suck just like the PLs suck for the discrepency.

And when the day comes strippers on this site admit that, several years of utter Bull Shit and posturing and LIES will be finally wipe aside. Will that day ever come?

Nope. And for the same reason Philip Morris Execs will go on profitting from smokers, will at the same time judging them for being morally weak.

Explanation? Super Duper Simple. People are self-centered fuckers. Thus they just see everything from whatever POV benefits them. If they want money, they will have it and really could not care less about implications. That would be fine if they weren't suck righteous self-centered pricks about it, but that is humans. They honestly believe their are saints, others are losers, and cannot fathom a POV where they suck too.

At least the guys here admit it. They are essentially cheating by spending cash on strippers their SOs dont approve of. The only thing that will impress me is less posturing, less intellecutal crap, and more realization that strippers profit from this reality.

Funny thing is, I admire honest fuckers far more then self-righteous people who live in denial. I can cope with the honesty but not the holier then thou mindset.