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erotictonic
09-16-2008, 12:00 AM
x-damage,

Thanks for being honest concerning your point-of-view. I do enjoy hearing and understanding different perspectives.

I think my point is being lost here.

First, let me point out that I am not a dancer. I have been, but I am not now. I am not pro-dancer or pro-custie, nor was I ever. I thought both were messed up, even while I was messed up, I knew it and didn't enjoy it. Secondly, I am not arguing whether cheating is morally right or wrong, but I do think it is an unhealthy lifestyle (hiding receipts, tiptoeing around behind someone's back, etc.), and that type of behavior leads to illness in one way or another. My goal is mental and physical health. Not only that, but my goal is also to do things the easiest way I can. My original point was: IF I want to go to sc's, I am going to find someone who likes to join in. I am not going to waste my time and energy tiptoeing around, when I can have a mate who likes to go with me and enjoys it. So as much as I think someone might want a certain behavior, it's not healthy. And I am not going to forego my own state of mental health in order to make someone else happy.

In other words, I am not going to cheat, because it's a big pain in the ass to me. It's not worth the problems and sickness. If I want to go to sc's, I am going to find someone who doesn't care whether I do or not (which is what a friend of mine did. He likes tits and so does his wife).

In other words, if I want to go to sc's and have a wife, here are my choices:

1) Go and hide it from a wife who doesn't like it;
2) Get a wife who likes to go herself.

Why on earth would I choose 1 when I can have 2? It's easier and healthier. The only reasons I would have 1 is if I somehow enjoy it more than 2, and that would have to mean I enjoy having an unhealthy lifestyle. So be it.

erotictonic
09-16-2008, 04:16 AM
As the dancer, and how many have the balls to just admit, yep, I make a fortune of guys who are essentially cheating on their SOs but I dont give a shit. I want my money and as long as I benefit, that is all I really care about it. But if it was my SO, no fucking way I'd be okay with it. Thus I suck just like the PLs suck for the discrepency.

And when the day comes strippers on this site admit that, several years of utter Bull Shit and posturing and LIES will be finally wipe aside. Will that day ever come?

Nope. And for the same reason Philip Morris Execs will go on profitting from smokers, will at the same time judging them for being morally weak.

Explanation? Super Duper Simple. People are self-centered fuckers. Thus they just see everything from whatever POV benefits them. If they want money, they will have it and really could not care less about implications. That would be fine if they weren't suck righteous self-centered pricks about it, but that is humans. They honestly believe their are saints, others are losers, and cannot fathom a POV where they suck too.

At least the guys here admit it. They are essentially cheating by spending cash on strippers their SOs dont approve of. The only thing that will impress me is less posturing, less intellecutal crap, and more realization that strippers profit from this reality.

Funny thing is, I admire honest fuckers far more then self-righteous people who live in denial. I can cope with the honesty but not the holier then thou mindset.

Oh, I see it and agree with you. But, I will also go one step further to say that: Everyday when they go to work, alot of them sign up TO break the law. They are committing felonies and/or misdemeanors everyday. And in that environment, that is signing up to, on occasion or more often than that, have misdemeanors and felonies committed against you. There is no free ride where: 1) I can commit crimes and never pay for it in some way, karma dictates that; 2) I can go do ld's and/or extras all night and my man isn't in some way getting his. I can pretend he isn't, but at the end of the day, most guys who don't aren't going to choose girls who do; 3) Agreed that they couldn't care less about the women whose husbands are in there. To strip is to set yourself up for a wild ride full of unpleasantries, because you are doing some of them youself, and there is no free lunch. And then when something happens like getting your tit bitten because what you are IS in a place of no empowerment, it's, "oh, but it was ok when I was sticking my tits in that married, cheating guy's face, and when I was the one committing the misdemeanor, but it's not ok when he commits one" lol. It's hilarious. That's not the way the world works. For all the people you don't care about, there will be that many who don't care about you. And then they want to cry, "oh people think so many bad things about us!" You're setting yourself up for that by living an uncaring lifestyle. There is no crying... if you are crying and needing support, you don't belong there, because you will be used up and spit out. There are too many predators and people who don't care about what happens to them (in other words, they don't give a flying fuck about being bitten or screwed, but they are ok with pretending they care). It's like, look around you, the people who don't care are what you are going to get. And that's the payment for being there...

erotictonic
09-16-2008, 06:56 AM
xdamage,

I also have to say that it is not all humans, and it's not all men or women. It's people. People decide what they want, as you said. And there are people that refuse to forego their values for anything, be that sex with Pam Anderson or a mansion. All people are not weak, all people are not completely self-serving. Some people learn along the way that it's not them to be. Some people learn they don't belong there, that the rewards given through achievements and hard work are sufficient, not only sufficent but superior. Somehow when I look at jon bon jovi these days, it doesn't make me feel the same way as it did in 1988. It seems a bigger pain in the ass than it does what I would be rewarded by going there. So be it.

bsteve
09-17-2008, 07:39 PM
If you ask the guys on blue, are you a cheater, they just say YES.

...
At least the guys here admit it. They are essentially cheating by spending cash on strippers their SOs dont approve of. ...


Dude, meaning no disrespect to you, but I am not one of the guys who would consider going to a SC cheating. To me it is not cheating.

My wife means the world to me. My marriage is sacred. I would not do anything to hurt her nor our relationship. I certainly would not go to SC (or do anything else) if I thought that it would hurt my wife. Whether or not she knows of my trips to SCs or not (she does) is not relevant. To me, a guy should not do anything that would hurt his wife. Even if there is absolutely no way that she would find out. Why? Because when I take a look in the mirror in the morning, I want to see an honest guy looking back. Not a guy who hurts his wife. Not a guy who has to sneak around his wife's back.

Yes, I too am "self centered fucker" (like you post) vis-a-vis people outside of my family, but to me my wife's needs outweigh my needs. And to my wife my needs outweigh her needs. It makes for a happy marriage.

xdamage
09-19-2008, 12:36 AM
Dude, meaning no disrespect to you, but I am not one of the guys who would consider going to a SC cheating. To me it is not cheating.

I mean I am not going to judge you bsteve. The relationship between you and another is between you two and whatever works for you. But the obvious question is, what does she think? Now in your case you said "she does" know, which is fine. But lets face it. A lot of guys do not tell their SOs about their SC expenses because they know what their SO would say about that. And to a lot of SOs they really hate strippers and their men spending on them in secret.

And I don't think it is strange at all that women have problems with men spending money on strippers. I mean think about it... a guy spending several hundred or thousands on another woman, for sexual reasons, maybe even emotional reasons; that is money he could be spending on his woman, feelings he could be spending on his wife or GF, but is spending on another. After all, how would most of us feel if our wives or GFs spent hundreds or thousands of our joint money on fantasy men without telling us? Putting ourselves in other people's shoes is so easy.

That said, I can at least cope with honesty, even honesty of, "I want" multiple incompatible realities. At least it is a step toward honest self assessment. I'd really rather talk with someone who says "yep, I am self-centered and do xxx" then someone who can't even face their own discrepencies.

It works the other way too. I have no problem with strippers who face the reality, a lot of males who go to SCs have social problems, a lot hide their spending from their SOs. But this is the money.

Can you imagine the following reality though:

o Guys all saying, I am not going to spend money in SCs until I have a stable solid relationship.

o Guys all saying, I am not going to spend money any more money in SCs then my SO approves of.

o Guys all saying, I am not going to fall for any strippers ever because it is just fantasy, and it is wrong for various reasons to become emotionally involved.

This would be sort of like people saying, I'm not going to spend any money on vices like smoking, or gambling that are not entirely responsible and well measured. The vice industries might survive it, but I'm guessing they would see the total expenditures drop by a HUGE percentage. And lets be 100% honest. I really don't believe that those who profit most off vice industries really want to see that happen, at least not all or not without some regret over the loss of income.

xdamage
09-19-2008, 05:25 AM
...In other words, if I want to go to sc's and have a wife, here are my choices:

1) Go and hide it from a wife who doesn't like it;
2) Get a wife who likes to go herself.

I guess I don't know how many women would be agreeable, but I can look at one observable point:

When the question comes up on SW, the majority of dancers here say "no way". Maybe once in a while, limited contact, but nothing like the levels of contact and expenditures you read about on SCJ or SW. Some even say any man who goes into a club is a total loser and they would never even date them, let alone approve.

Now if dancers in general, as women, and people, feel that way about their SOs spending large sums of money on high contact dances, it doesn't seem like a stretch to assume the majority of women in general feel the same.

Honestly I think if the shoes were on the other feet most of the guys here wouldn't be happy if their SOs were blowing large sums of money on super sexy male dancers to be sexually stimulated.

Of course men, like women, choose their SOs for hundreds of reasons and SC tolerance is just one tiny factor, but part of it is also that people change. Even if a couple is agreeable at the time they are courting, they are not necessarily in agreement over everything many years later. Thus the guy courting a girl may not even be going to SCs, yet later in life, when they have grown apart, he may well be looking for something else he is not feeling from the relationship.

Enter the guys who go to SCs to fill a need without actually engaging in sex with someone else. The SC is the quick, easy, slippery slope way to "not cheat" (sort of) with other women for many guys who are married, and in a long term relationship. Sure, they could all leave their wives over it, but there are hundreds of other reasons they don't. They know full well their wives would not approve though.

"Hi honey, yea, I know you are now 40 something and looking your age, but I really need a 20 something to make me feel like a man. I'm just going to take this $1000 we could have spent on a vacation for us, and blow it in a two hour period so she can grind on me and make me feel sexy again."

See that just doesn't work for obvious reasons, but you can sure bet whoever he blows the $1000 on is more then happy to have it, will encourage him to spend it, and really doesn't care at all if he has an SO that disapproves. Chances are she wouldn't approve herself when she is the 40 something, even if she approves now as a 20 something (which probably she doesn't).

But again... people want what they want. The world does work, but the constant under current of competing wants is always there.

Golden_Rule
09-19-2008, 06:59 PM
I suppose one would have to be in misery or in a place of not caring or in a place of enjoying someone else's misery to enjoy being in the place of lying about it.

You can suppose anything you like. It woudn't necesarily mean you were correct.

I can only speak for myself but I can tell you what you put forth as your idea of what someone must be to do what we do and lie about it doesn't describe me at all.

BTW, I fully admit that I lie about it, but I keep those lies to lies of omission only. I don't make stuff up.

Now I also fully admit that a lie, is a lie, is a lie.

I don't throw BS. I don't take BS either. I do what I do to make myself happy while doing the best I can, successfully to this point, to make sure my wife is happy too.

One last point... I wouldn't mind her doing the same. Sauce for the gander is always sauce for the goose in my book.

Golden_Rule
09-19-2008, 07:09 PM
If you ask the guys on blue, are you a cheater, they just say YES. My SO hates the idea of me spending money I could be spending on her to grind on my dick and sexually simulating. I suck, but that is me.

Not me. My wife and I have his/hers/ours accounting. I am fiscially and romanticaly faithful. :)

I don't spend any money but mine on sex outside of our marriage. I spend no romantic currency at all.

xdamage
09-19-2008, 08:16 PM
BTW, I fully admit that I lie about it, but I keep those lies to lies of omission only. I don't make stuff up.

Now I also fully admit that a lie, is a lie, is a lie.

...


One last point... I wouldn't mind her doing the same. Sauce for the gander is always sauce for the goose in my book.

Indeed I think many guys would take fair play fairly, but it is a strange quandary nonetheless.

Many strippers say they would never date a guy who goes to Strip clubs, and many more say they would never approve of a BF or husband spending money on strippers, especially not large figures or if it involves heavy contact. Now Strippers of all people should be the most liberal about it, but there you go.

But the logical next step is, what if all guys lived up to the stripper's ideal of a man who never goes to SCs and never spends money on strippers without approval. That doesn't leave single guys to go to SCs because strippers mark them as losers for going to the club vs going out on dates. And it doesn't leave a lot of men who are involved in relationships whose GFs or wives would just say NO.

What other logical conclusion then is except for cake wanting and eatings too?

You know LE makes their money from people whose behavior LE sees as undesirable. But in theory LE discourages the behavior that makes LE necessary. Strippers encourage men to spend, including single men, including men involved in relationships. Yet the quandary remains.

If the only customers on the planet met all Stripper checkpoints for non-PLishness, who would be left? A handful of guys in relationships whose SOs approved of their spending small amounts on rare occassion?

Just as it is hard to say "I admit I lie", it is hard to say "I admit I profit off behavior I view as undesirable". But strippers are adults. The days of treating women as anything less then full adults are fading, I hope. They are equal and with it comes equal responsibility. Therefore if we would see a man as acting in a way that profits from human behavior that is seen as undesirable as heinous in some way, if a woman does the same we must treat her as an adult and responsible for her conflicts of interests.

But this is the way of vices. Often those who profit most also hold contemptious views (along with the rest of society) about those they profit from and actively encourage. Strange? Nope, that is humans.

UtahMike
09-20-2008, 08:42 PM
and I don't understand why you guys just don't go get a gf instead of going to sc's.
My wife would object to my having a girl friend.

Golden_Rule
09-20-2008, 09:21 PM
Indeed I think many guys would take fair play fairly, but it is a strange quandary nonetheless.


and what followed...

Well thought out and logical as always.

slims099
09-27-2008, 07:27 AM
I actually like the expression Pathetic Winner. I think that is really cute; like "think outside the box, people."

Oh I like that better... kinda has a ring to it.