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txchick008
07-30-2008, 02:23 PM
Two little words can explain everything: Health benefits.

Especially if she or a family member has a pre-exisiting condition, she is trapped working at this job for a horrible boss.


Even if you quit a job, you still qualify for COBRA benefits (for up to 18 months). I am doing that right now as a matter of fact.

She has options - there's always options.

ViolaStrings
07-30-2008, 02:42 PM
She also might be ashamed to admit to her husband what is happening to her, even though it's not her fault. He might be suspicious if she changed jobs.

AmberHoney
07-30-2008, 04:27 PM
I think we are agreeing with each other. In my original post in this thread I said that she must be getting crazy money (abnormally great benefits would fall under that) or some kind of blackmail.

I think we are, too. Blackmail is something I never even thought of. Maybe she got caught in an office affair by her boss and her boss knows the husband or something... oh goodness... that would make a great Law & Order SVU episode.



Even if you quit a job, you still qualify for COBRA benefits (for up to 18 months). I am doing that right now as a matter of fact.

She has options - there's always options.

Is COBRA what people get when their spouse dies, too? When I was younger I knew someone who's mom got that...but apparently it was buttwadly expensive and had that whole referral based system.

dangerousdiva
07-30-2008, 04:28 PM
Even if you quit a job, you still qualify for COBRA benefits (for up to 18 months). I am doing that right now as a matter of fact.

She has options - there's always options.

Not trying to turn this into a health care debate but COBRA is expensive and a short term solution. Not to mention if you are going to be applying for heath benefits you probably don't want your medical records to reflect treatment for a preexisting condition.

I'm as independent as they come but when I interned during college at a very well known computer company, I tolerated some CRAZY harassment. Yes, in this day and age. I was 19 and didn't know any better so I kept my mouth shut and later became a stripper }:D

VS did a good thing, we should focus on that. Women put themselves in bad situations all the time but that doesn't mean they deserve to be victimized.

Miss_McKenna
07-30-2008, 04:44 PM
Poor woman, what a crappy situation to be in. I can't imagine being in a position where just to retain my job, I have to put up with my boss trying to get me drunk and grope me in a strip club! I hope she can find something else, no-one deserves that >:(

NewMoon
07-30-2008, 05:41 PM
Actually I do because I have been in that situation before .
I will NEVER believe a woman is at fault for her own abuse.

ViolaStrings
07-30-2008, 05:51 PM
^ Exactly. If she wanted it, then it wouldn't be abuse.

TheSexKitten
07-30-2008, 05:51 PM
That man is disgusting, and I bet he's blackmailing her. If her husband was mad at her and she didn't feel comfortable explaining the situation to him, he might have been a lot more mad if he knew the details. I'd be willing to bet that he loves her but that he's one of those traditional men who would be jealous and pissed at her even though she's a subordinate.

Like maybe she tolerated something in the past, then decided it should stop, but got threatened by the employer so that it had to continue.

I have only sympathy for her. That sucks. Thanks for being there for her, VS. Too bad you didn't save a reciept of let her have your name/no. as a witness if she wants to press charges or something.

AmberHoney
07-30-2008, 10:55 PM
I will NEVER believe a woman is at fault for her own abuse.

This isn't solely specific to this particular scenario... but typically... people that are abused or attacked and even murdered typically play a major role in their own incidents.

IE...if I decided to get married and cheat on my husband and had a baby by another man and let him think it was his until I decided to spill the beans and run off with my lover....and then got in my husbands face and dug my nails into his arms while screaming madly in his face pointing my finger into his chest super hard while telling him that I cheated on him because he's a pathetic waste of a man who'll never amount to anything and that he should go kill himself and his mother for giving birth to him...and he slapped me... well... people get KILLED for less than that.

A woman can be 90% in the wrong and a man can be 10% in the wrong.

I *do* believe in provocation and I do believe that some women are so dysfunctional that they *do* ask for it.

I have empathy for this woman because I can understand how a situation like that could exist and I can understand the feelings going on behind it...but I can't have sympathy because she -for whatever reason- has that job and is in that position due to her own choice not to quit. She could be putting up with that for the sake of world peace who knows.

In my (old country) family we have a saying..."If you decide to be a martyr...you decide to not be mourned".

ViolaStrings
07-30-2008, 11:22 PM
^ whoa.

venusace138
07-31-2008, 01:22 AM
Lets just pause for a moment and appreciate that we're independant contractors - and STILL have it A LOT better than a lot of others in America right now - even if our money is in a downward spiral.

We do deal with bullshit on the job in our own ways, but we're in much better positions to walk out and work some place else than many people are. ESPECIALLY WITH THE WAY OUR ECONOMY IS RIGHT NOW.

We're in no position to judge this woman or assume what her situation may be. Irregardless, it sickens me when one person exploits anothers weakness.

That was very brave and kind hearted on your part ViolaStrings. Good karma is headed your way : ).

Susan Wayward
07-31-2008, 02:05 AM
In my (old country) family we have a saying..."If you decide to be a martyr...you decide to not be mourned".

Ah, the old country. Where men are men and women shut the fuck up. There's a reason it's the old country.

kitana
07-31-2008, 02:36 AM
I don't cry about my job, i love it and i dont do anything besides the actual job to keep it. My boss is professional.

Hun, I didn't mean us (as dancers) I mean the general population sees us in that light. Also, no where did I ever say my boss was anything less than professional and courteous and a true gentleman to all of his girls.



YOU ARE A STRIPPER, your job description ^^^..not hers.

I respectfully disagree. NO WHERE in my job description says I should be subjected to mindless groping and unwanted sexual harassment. I am an entertainer. If I were a prostitute or an escort, yes I could say those things are part of my job description; but as an entertainer, I entertain. I make guys laugh, I smile, giggle, have fun and make them feel good about themselves. That does NOT mean I should be subjected to sexual harassment that in ANY other setting besides the club would warrant a call to the local law enforcement, nor will I put up with it. I don't know about you, but I have been in this game quite a long time, and I DO remember when dancers were not subject to constant groping and physical harassment on a nightly basis.

You also have to take into account that alcohol was involved, and that in another non-alcohol situation her actions and his could have potentially been MUCH different, in contrast that alcohol was involved things tend to happen that you don't always think about properly. She could have been sobering up and realized her mistakes and her comfort level could have dropped due to that.

kitana
07-31-2008, 02:41 AM
Even if you quit a job, you still qualify for COBRA benefits (for up to 18 months). I am doing that right now as a matter of fact.

She has options - there's always options.

COBRA is SHIT. When I was working a factory job my health insurance weekly was $26 for a family of 4. When I was laid off, I was eligible for COBRA but it would end up costing me $467 month for the same package.

Not worth it IMO, especially when it didn't cover RX like my insurance did before, and that was all we really needed it for. Why pay almost $500 a month for a $100 discount on $150/month RX?!

txchick008
07-31-2008, 04:17 AM
^^
COBRA enables me to carry the exact same coverage I had while working at my office job (medical, dental, and scripts). I do pay a bit more ($200 a month), but my benefits are AMAZING and worth every penny. No deductible on anything routine, $20 Dr visits, super-cheap scripts, and 80% of any dental work....I am going to milk it for all it's worth :) I guess every company is different. Perhaps I got lucky!

*Iris*
07-31-2008, 05:25 AM
I will NEVER believe a woman is at fault for her own abuse. Well I said that because I do beleive it was my fault not the fact that he hit me but the fact that I still stayed with him and didn't get myself out of the situation.


COBRA is SHIT. When I was working a factory job my health insurance weekly was $26 for a family of 4. When I was laid off, I was eligible for COBRA but it would end up costing me $467 month for the same package.

Not worth it IMO, especially when it didn't cover RX like my insurance did before, and that was all we really needed it for. Why pay almost $500 a month for a $100 discount on $150/month RX?!
Shit I wish I had that coverage my fiance was paying about $1000 dollars for just me and my daughter and himself . $70 dollar co-pay and $60 dollar prescriptions it sucked.We got ourselves off and are now looking for another insurance company.

AmberHoney
07-31-2008, 08:48 AM
^ whoa.

I still think you did the right thing, and I probably would have done what you did, too.

But if I saw her in a club or in a hotel suite enduring the same stuff... well, then I'd just shake my head and keep on truckin'.


Ah, the old country. Where men are men and women shut the fuck up. There's a reason it's the old country.

Eh. Loyalty, self reliance, responsibility, ambition, hard work, reliability, all old country values that people need...HERE.

If you were crazy enough to punch yourself in the eye repeatedly (or let someone else do it)... could you really be mad if people weren't all coddling and comforting?

I mean...seriously.

MeanGirl
07-31-2008, 01:45 PM
Hun, I didn't mean us (as dancers) I mean the general population sees us in that light. Also, no where did I ever say my boss was anything less than professional and courteous and a true gentleman to all of his girls. I wasn't referring to that, i was referring to the fact that I LOVE MY JOB, i don't do it b/c i have to like you claim the woman does. Also I could give a fuck less what the general population thinks about my job:-* .




I respectfully disagree. NO WHERE in my job description says I should be subjected to mindless groping and unwanted sexual harassment. I am an entertainer. If I were a prostitute or an escort, yes I could say those things are part of my job description; but as an entertainer, I entertain. I make guys laugh, I smile, giggle, have fun and make them feel good about themselves. That does NOT mean I should be subjected to sexual harassment that in ANY other setting besides the club would warrant a call to the local law enforcement, nor will I put up with it. I don't know about you, but I have been in this game quite a long time, and I DO remember when dancers were not subject to constant groping and physical harassment on a nightly basis.. Like it or not it is not sexual harrassment when we are working, ask 9/10 girls and they will agree that this is what we sign on for when we become strippers, (and im not saying you have to put up with it), you can't tell me people don't try and grope you nightly and it's not apart of your job. Unless you are in denial about what you do::) .[/quote]



You also have to take into account that alcohol was involved, and that in another non-alcohol situation her actions and his could have potentially been MUCH different, in contrast that alcohol was involved things tend to happen that you don't always think about properly. She could have been sobering up and realized her mistakes and her comfort level could have dropped due to that. ok... but that's not what happened. People are responsible for their actions regardless of what motivates them (ie: alcohol).

Susan Wayward
07-31-2008, 01:48 PM
Hey, if going through life without compassion works for you, don't let me stop you.

Misogyny, class hierarchies, slavery, ah, not everything from the past has a place in the present.

I am just stunned at the internalized misogyny shown in this thread. It reminds me of the people who thought everyone stuck in New Orleans for Katrina should have just left. Because, you know, everyone has the same exact background and set of circumstances.

needtodance
07-31-2008, 01:51 PM
This isn't solely specific to this particular scenario... but typically... people that are abused or attacked and even murdered typically play a major role in their own incidents.

IE...if I decided to get married and cheat on my husband and had a baby by another man and let him think it was his until I decided to spill the beans and run off with my lover....and then got in my husbands face and dug my nails into his arms while screaming madly in his face pointing my finger into his chest super hard while telling him that I cheated on him because he's a pathetic waste of a man who'll never amount to anything and that he should go kill himself and his mother for giving birth to him...and he slapped me... well... people get KILLED for less than that.

A woman can be 90% in the wrong and a man can be 10% in the wrong.

I *do* believe in provocation and I do believe that some women are so dysfunctional that they *do* ask for it.

I have empathy for this woman because I can understand how a situation like that could exist and I can understand the feelings going on behind it...but I can't have sympathy because she -for whatever reason- has that job and is in that position due to her own choice not to quit. She could be putting up with that for the sake of world peace who knows.

In my (old country) family we have a saying..."If you decide to be a martyr...you decide to not be mourned".

I'm holding my tongue and waiting for more responses to this. I can't WAIT to see what others have to say.

MeanGirl
07-31-2008, 01:51 PM
^^ is that directed to me? Just b/c i don't feel sorry for the woman in this situation, I go through life w/o compassion? Good logic.

AmberHoney
07-31-2008, 01:57 PM
I'm holding my tongue and waiting for more responses to this. I can't WAIT to see what others have to say.

Typically the idea is that a woman can cut off a man's balls, grind them up, and feed them to him...and if he as much as lifts his hand from his side... she's a destitute victim with an abusive egomaniac.

There are cases of totally unprovoked abuse by men who are just born violent and destructive, but those seem to be few and far between.

And Susan... if we're going to go over it with tweezers and a magnifying glass...we'd both have equal amounts of pro/con talking points on 'tradition'.

Anyways... VS did the right thing at the right time.

The back story about the employer/employee in my head is pure speculation.

AmberHoney
07-31-2008, 01:59 PM
^^ is that directed to me? Just b/c i don't feel sorry for the woman in this situation, I go through life w/o compassion? Good logic.


No, it was directed at me. I have empathy (and compassion but people see what they want to see). I guess I used the wrong word or something.

Please don't beat me?

lol

Sorry...but seriously...seriously.

Sarah Andi
07-31-2008, 02:02 PM
QTF, Susan.

And I'll take the bait from the victim-blamer. What the mother fucking fuck? Rape victims and battered women and molested children and harassed co-workers are not to blame for their abuse. WHat the hell? Break the myths, for crying out loud. What is this, the stone age????

Unless you've ever experienced the very serious nature of workplace sexual harassment, you can't necessarily fully understand the impact it can have on your life.

Stripping is quite different from the average 9-to-5 office job and gives us one hell of a unique perspective (indeed, a variety of unique perspectives). What we experience, and in the context of the experience, is different from what a woman handling accounts at an insurance firm, or doing reception work, or even holding a CEO/COO position in a Fortune 100 company experiences and expects. When someone offends us, or even makes us uncomfortable, we can have the douchebag thrown out, or we can use those 7" stilettos for their best function. And, like it or not, we pretty much expect to run into an asshole or 30 here and there. When a woman in an office is put in an uncomfortable position, she doesn't have the same kind of resources.

There's a reason sexual harassment is illegal, and it's not all out of sensitivity. And despite the best efforts of three generations of feminist rage, this shit still exists (as evidenced here), and is still hard as hell to put up with, or even just walk away form. Despite anti-retaliation laws and million-dollar personnel departments and sensitivity training, sexual harassment is a serious problems in a lot of firms.

Seriously, read de Bouvoir or Freidan or something.

I'm off to listen to le Tigre and funnel my feminist rage--coupled with teh menses--into some long-distance road biking. Any Ohio girls want to meet me in Columbus in a couple of hours to smash the patriarchy (haha)? ANd, of course, apologies for the randomness and pseudo-irrelevance in this post. Teh menses is not my friend today.

MeanGirl
07-31-2008, 02:07 PM
Unless you've ever experienced the very serious nature of workplace sexual harassment, you can't necessarily fully understand the impact it can have on your life.

You are right , there are some things I just can't feel bad about unless I have experienced them. Before stripping I have had plenty of jobs where I never have or will submit to my boss to keep the job, so it is hard to fathom. But it's easy to not really care either, since I don't know the woman. If it were someone I knew I may also look at differently.

Bella21
07-31-2008, 02:10 PM
Perhaps this is her first experiance with sexual harrassment? I've been sexually harrassed at normal day jobs before and I was too young and naive to put my foot down and say, "You've crossed the line. Stop. Now. End of story."

It's possible that there are two sides to this story but the bottom line is that they were both acting inappropriately (her for going with her boss to get drunk at a strip club and him for throwing his weight around). HIS job is now on the line and I hope that she takes appropriate action.

You have to say "No". Regardless if we're setting touching boundaries with a customer of if you have a desk job and your co-worker is hitting on you. No means no means no. I've karate-chopped a guy in the face before because he wouldn't listen to me when I told him repeatedly not to touch my boobs. I have no remorse for him.

Sarah Andi
07-31-2008, 02:14 PM
Compassion. It's a good thing. You needn't be able to empathize with someone in order to feel compassion for them.

I've never been severely malnourished or starving, but I feel compassion for starving children.

AmberHoney
07-31-2008, 03:06 PM
This went all random and left field with us trying to imagine scenarios of why this woman would even BE in this situation in the first place.

Blackmail, health insurance, domestic violence, etc.

For some reason, Shia LeBouf's current situation is coming to mind.

He was drunk as hell...

Someone ran a red light while speeding...

And the initial spin on it was that the whole thing happened because he was drunk. Forget that someone chose to speed through a red light...

Shia was wrong cuz he was drunk...

The other driver's choices played no part in the accident...

This is, of course...if we pretend logic, balance, fairness, and reality do not exist.

If you are INNOCENT... then yes, you are a victim.

But if that drug dealer died in a gunfight with another drug dealer who lived... I mean...come on. His choices kind of did contribute to his own murder.

This is stuff that has been PROVEN.

This isn't "AmberHoney is big time victim blamer with an icy cold heart".

Damn.

That woman was in a really, really, fucked up and unfortunate situation. She could have left. She could have called the cops, called a cap, called a friend, told someone, not came in the first place, called security, quit her job on the spot and got the cops to take witness statements right there in the club...whatever. For WHATEVER REASON...she made a personal choice to remain in the situation until someone came to "save her".

Come on.

VS helped her. VS did the appropriate thing at the appropriate time.

Just out of curiosity....VS, how would you feel if this was the third or fourth time you saw her in your club in the same situation?

txchick008
08-01-2008, 05:45 PM
Not trying to turn this into a health care debate but COBRA is expensive and a short term solution.

I had also heard that COBRA could be pricey. So I was quite pleased when I learned what my monthly premium would be. It was not "expensive" by any means (for me at least).

britt244
08-02-2008, 12:59 AM
Man you never know why someone puts up with their shitty unsafe unstable job.

Sometimes that ticket out or future goal or that salary or that health insurance is worth it.

People working at a gas station for 20 years just to have super high life insurance payouts and a nice full coverage Aetna package that costs $350 for a family of 6...

Women putting up with crazy ass sexual harassment for $200,000 a year and health benefits for their disabled child...

thank you. thats what i was thinking as i read the thread.. the job market is NOT stable and good these days. what if she has kids? esp disabled ones. you dont know, guys. if she needs to support her children she sure as hell cant walk out of her job and hope a new one will come along.

princessparis
08-02-2008, 01:18 AM
I just wanted to say that VS did the right thing. Good for you for calling a cab and getting her out of there. That was the smartest thing to do.... too bad you don't know what the boss tried to do when he left :( oh well, you only have so much control over the situation, but what you did have control over you handled quite well imo.

msonyxorb
08-02-2008, 04:16 AM
I went to VIP last night with 2 other dancers, and a group of 2 men and a woman. They seemed normal enough, and came to the conclusion to go to VIP pretty quickly (BTW, 3 girls and 3 guests in VIP for an hour is $2100 if you put it on your card). They were all co-workers from out of town, here for a convention.

The ugly guy of the group said the woman was his wife, and when we got to VIP, he informed me the goal for the hour was to get her topless. He was absolutely adamant about it, to the point of being pushy. He was also very grabby and huggy with me right in front of her, which I thought was strange.

He kept getting her shots and making her do them. He even physically tried to lift up her shirt at some point. I could tell she was uncomfortable, so I told the guys she and I were going to the bathroom to "make out". When we got to the bathroom she was practically crying. She tells me she was just playing along, the ugly guy is not her husband but her BOSS and he was MAKING her come here and do this. She was so cool and so nice to us, most women are such hateful bitches towards dancers and discourage guys from going to VIP. She called her real husband and was in trouble with him for not returning his call. Turns out her boss who is sexually harassing her is married, too. She said she had to talk to her husband for a while, so I went back to VIP and they renewed for ANOTHER hour. I told her she was on the phone with their babysitter and there was a problem with their kids - should you go talk to her? The ugly dude told me "No, go get her out of the bathroom".

When I went to the bathroom, she was crying on the phone - she was in BIG trouble with her real husband. She said she wanted to leave, so I told her to go out front and talk to a certain bouncer about finding her a safe cabbie.

I went back to the room and said "She's gone, I don't know where she went." Ugly dude went and looked for her, and when he came back he seemed really quietly angry but just said "She's tired, no big deal".

What an asshole! She's his subordinate, and she was probably afraid to stand up for herself in fear of losing her job. Some women customers are nice to dancers, especially when they know what it's like to be treated like a whore.

are you sure she wasnt his "assistant"?

amcut
08-02-2008, 06:12 AM
My take ... is that she's got a long history of sexual abuse and hasn't yet kicked her victim scent off.

It's hard to, so I can't blame her. I'm sure plenty of us here have had an awful time of that one. Most spineless people are fucked up from the floor up.

I know I'd be especially afraid of telling my husband, attorney, anyone, if in my earlier life I had tried to tell someone.. and maybe wasn't believed, or was subjected to a lot of shit along the way.

I dunno. Just a feeling, but.. sounds like her spine has been missing for a while.

ViolaStrings
08-02-2008, 12:16 PM
^ victim scent? You just dropped a drama bomb.

Perry
08-02-2008, 01:31 PM
VS, you did a nice thing. If that woman did want to sue him, would you be willing to testify as a witness? As for the rest of the thread, I'm not touching it.

Arizona_Angel
08-02-2008, 01:36 PM
And thousands of women say the SAME thing about us daily and our jobs.

You DO NOT know WHAT is going on in this woman's life to be able to just say "she needs to quit her job". How do you know that her husband isn't on disability and is not able to work, and her job is the only thing keeping her family from being homeless?

I sit through the same stuff (guys trying to get me drunk, guys trying to pull up my shirt, guys trying to grab my ass, etc...) nightly, and most girls here do; so does that mean I don't care about my husband or myself?

Sorry but I (for once!) totally agree with VS, it's really bitchy of some of you guys to belittle that woman.
Couldn't agree more.

ViolaStrings
08-02-2008, 02:50 PM
VS, you did a nice thing. If that woman did want to sue him, would you be willing to testify as a witness? As for the rest of the thread, I'm not touching it.

I'm sure she's not going to ever do anything about it :( and NO I would not testify. I don't need to be on court records as the stripper witness.

amcut
08-02-2008, 05:49 PM
^ victim scent? You just dropped a drama bomb.



D:

Drama bomb! We entered the world of speculation with blackmail.
Seriously, there's no form of a mentally healthy woman who's going to let her boss bang her around that way.

Now, a drama bomb would be if I suggested that it was all strange theatrics by a local acting troupe that was testing their improv in real life settings.

Either way, no drama intended. I'll apologize, as I've really no clue what gets the troops riled around here.