View Full Version : 11 year old singing touch my body
Lysondra
08-02-2008, 11:34 AM
Did someone seriously just call Jenny an ideologist in thie thread? :O
TarsTone
08-02-2008, 10:20 PM
I would suggest a) that not constructing the world in gross halves when you do does not necessarily make one a hypocrite and that b) racism and hatefulness are not actions, but outlooks, feelings and ideologies.
Look. This whole patronizing facade you hide behind every time you get cornered in an argument does not impress me. I really don't need you to explain to me the difference between sex and racism. Thanks though. Really.::)
Racism is an outlook, but can manifest itself in physical behavior, i.e. hate crimes. And that is exactly the rationale behind censoring racist and homophobic content in music and other forms of entertainment.
When it comes to kids and the media, it is very much a case of monkey see, monkey do. If something is presented to them as the "cool" thing to do and is easily imitable, you can bet your ass they'll follow. If kids watch a show everyday where the Indian character is constantly the butt of the joke, next time they see an Indian kid they'll torment him till he has a nervous breakdown. Similarly, the more kids watch shows and listen to music that presents sex as what cool people do all the time, the more likely they will be to engage in it. Plain and simple.
I think I already pointed out a distinguishing factor in that we tend to hope that children do not grow up to be racist and hateful; we do not mind as much if they grow up to have sex or get married. This is not about what we hope they do when they grow up; it's about what they can do right now.
Plus, it seems what you are suggesting now is not that he shouldn't be singing it, but that he shouldn't be hearing it?
Not if it was my kid. You don't need to be hearing about "throwing people on the bed" and "touching their body" when you're 11. There will be plenty of time for that when the hormones start doing their magic.
This particular kid is singing a song completely innocently the same way I used to sing along to my dad's meatloaf album or aerosmith.Kids certainly are naive and malleable, but not as dumb as you're making them out to be. I think an 11 year old can perfectly understand what those words mean. Let's be real.
Jenny
08-02-2008, 11:56 PM
Look. This whole patronizing facade you hide behind every time you get cornered in an argument does not impress me. I really don't need you to explain to me the difference between sex and racism. Thanks though. Really.::)
I think it is a little funny that you think I'm cornered; and I'll politely avoid characterizing your position. Dude, I don't even know you. Have I ever even interacted with you before? Where is this hostility coming from?
Racism is an outlook, but can manifest itself in physical behavior, i.e. hate crimes. And that is exactly the rationale behind censoring racist and homophobic content in music and other forms of entertainment.
I don't see your point. Like, yes. Sometimes outlooks can manifest themselves in actions. That doesn't mean that actions and outlooks need to be treated the same, and you seem to be insisting that they should.
When it comes to kids and the media, it is very much a case of monkey see, monkey do. If something is presented to them as the "cool" thing to do and is easily imitable, you can bet your ass they'll follow. If kids watch a show everyday where the Indian character is constantly the butt of the joke, next time they see an Indian kid they'll torment him till he has a nervous breakdown. Similarly, the more kids watch shows and listen to music that presents sex as what cool people do all the time, the more likely they will be to engage in it. Plain and simple.
I actually think that is painfully simplistic and not terribly accurate. So I'm not really willing to stipulate to this. But to be clear - your problem then is not that a little boy is singing this mariah carey song, but that you think he should not be listening to it?
This is not about what we hope they do when they grow up; it's about what they can do right now.
Again - I think that is a little painfully simplistic. Of course there is a concern about development - particularly in your example of race issues. The concern is not actually that children will go out and immediately commit a hate crime, but that it will influence their outlook on life and that they will grow up with racist ideas, ideals or predisopositions.
Not if it was my kid. You don't need to be hearing about "throwing people on the bed" and "touching their body" when you're 11. There will be plenty of time for that when the hormones start doing their magic.
Okay.
Kids certainly are naive and malleable, but not as dumb as you're making them out to be. I think an 11 year old can perfectly understand what those words mean. Let's be real.I don't think kids are dumb. I don't think being indifferent to lyrics make them dumb.
Out of curiosity - have you watched the video under contention?
High-Heel-Lover
08-03-2008, 09:27 AM
What songs did you sing that were not really for kids when you were growing up?
I did...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBYHiOsjxS8
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjWiUoLokCU
not a damn clue wth they were about yet I liked the beat.
TarsTone
08-03-2008, 10:03 AM
Dude, I don't even know you. Have I ever even interacted with you before? Where is this hostility coming from?
Dude, we haven't interacted much, but I have seen you argue with people, and you always put up a silly patronizing front as soon as people call you out.
And dude, this isn't so much hostility as it is annoyance. I really don't care for people who argue by constantly setting up straw men or going out of their way to not get a point.
I don't see your point. Like, yes. Sometimes outlooks can manifest themselves in actions. That doesn't mean that actions and outlooks need to be treated the same, and you seem to be insisting that they should.I showed you how with sex and bigotry outlooks can easily translate to action. You chose not to get it.
Again - I think that is a little painfully simplistic. Of course there is a concern about development - particularly in your example of race issues. The concern is not actually that children will go out and immediately commit a hate crime, but that it will influence their outlook on life and that they will grow up with racist ideas, ideals or predisopositions. Oversimplifying a point and then calling it "painfully simplistic" is a painfully transparent way of getting out of a corner.
Anyone of average intelligence could tell I wasn't suggesting kids will run out immediately and do whatever they saw on tv. I was talking about a general shift in attitude that can then manifest itself through outward behavior. Whether it happens a day later or 6 months down the road isn't really the point.
Then again, I think you got that. But it helps your argument to pretend otherwise.
Jenny
08-03-2008, 10:07 AM
not a damn clue wth they were about yet I liked the beat.
I sang Meatloaf. Aerosmith. Def Leppard. (I grew up in an industrial town, shut up). All that kind of crap. I think I knew what it meant, but I wasn't focused on it. Like I definitely didn't not know what it meant - if someone had asked me what "Pour Some Sugar On Me" meant, I wouldn't have said "Dessert" but I wasn't fixated on the sexual nature of it, either. The same way I might sing a sad song without being focused on how sad it is. I mean Tiffany was supposed to be uber-child-friendly pop singer - her song was about ditching her parents so she could fuck her boyfriend - which again, I had some idea that they weren't trying to be alone to play a nice game of checkers, but I wasn't focused on that.
Jenny
08-03-2008, 10:16 AM
And dude, this isn't so much hostility as it is annoyance. I really don't care for people who argue by constantly setting up straw men or going out of their way to not get a point.
So you've sat around getting annoyed with a total stranger because she argues with other people? What a very interesting thing to do. Doing that kind of thing would just never even occur to me.
I showed you how with sex and bigotry outlooks can easily translate to action. You chose not to get it.
No you didn't. You showed how someone with a certain outlook (racist) might perform certain actions. That is not the same thing at all, and doesn't actually set up a good comparison with straight action (the sex).
Oversimplifying a point and then calling it "painfully simplistic" is a painfully transparent way of getting out of a corner.
Sure. Or it could just be that you painfully simplified a position to make one point, and now want to recomplicate it to make another. I mean you actually used the phrase "Monkey See Monkey Do - As Simple As That". I don't think there is a way to simplify your position more than that.
Anyone of average intelligence could tell I wasn't suggesting kids will run out immediately and do whatever they saw on tv.
Actually you very specifically said that the concern is what they could do right now. You underlined it and everything, just to draw focus. You said that you weren't concerned with what they could do later - you were concerned with right now.
I was talking about a general shift in attitude that can then manifest itself through outward behavior. Whether it happens a day later or 6 months down the road isn't really the point.
I agree. And I think this is kind of the precise difference between promoting certain outlooks and ideologies over the discussion of certain discrete acts.
And seriously - have you watched the video?
Then again, I think you got that. But it helps your argument to pretend otherwise.
No. I just don't think you understand what I'm saying as much as you think you do. It's probably all the irritation you've been storing up for some reason.
AmberHoney
08-03-2008, 10:34 AM
I sang Meatloaf. Aerosmith. Def Leppard. (I grew up in an industrial town, shut up). All that kind of crap. I think I knew what it meant, but I wasn't focused on it. Like I definitely didn't not know what it meant - if someone had asked me what "Pour Some Sugar On Me" meant, I wouldn't have said "Dessert" but I wasn't fixated on the sexual nature of it, either. The same way I might sing a sad song without being focused on how sad it is. I mean Tiffany was supposed to be uber-child-friendly pop singer - her song was about ditching her parents so she could fuck her boyfriend - which again, I had some idea that they weren't trying to be alone to play a nice game of checkers, but I wasn't focused on that.
Random:
I pulled that Get a Grip album out in band one day and my instructor had a freakin' fit at the pierced cow tits, LMAO!
I loved that album.
TarsTone
08-03-2008, 01:15 PM
So you've sat around getting annoyed with a total stranger because she argues with other people?
Don't flatter yourself. I've read enough posts on this board to get a feel of different people's personalities. And I know I'm not the first one to say something about your pretentious posturing.
No you didn't. You showed how someone with a certain outlook (racist) might perform certain actions. That is not the same thing at all, and doesn't actually set up a good comparison with straight action (the sex).I explained this literally to death. Stop pretending to be dense just to defend your position. It's a silly tactic and doesn't reflect well on your intellect.
Actually you very specifically said that the concern is what they could do right now. You underlined it and everything, just to draw focus. You said that you weren't concerned with what they could do later - you were concerned with right now.
I underlined "right now" to make it clear that I was talking about what kids do as kids, not later in life as adults like you were suggesting. Did you really not get that?
No. I just don't think you understand what I'm saying as much as you think you do. It's probably all the irritation you've been storing up for some reason.Actually I'm irritated because I understand exactly what you're doing- playing semantics, pretending not to get a simple point, taking every word in its most literal sense...
Have fun arguing with yourself. I'm gonna go watch paint dry.
Dottie Rebel
08-03-2008, 03:00 PM
Can you two put your dicks away and get back to the topic at hand: 11 year old queens getting down on the pop music.
That was a joke. Sort of.
Sophia_Ashley
08-03-2008, 03:14 PM
i dont know i thought it was funny. i mean my favorite song was sex and candy when i was like 10. .
I am so fucking old. :( I had my first kid by then and was in college when that came out! Holy shit.
I used to sing "Do you think I'm sexy" and completely was into George Micheal's Faith album. Shit by 6 I knew all the dance moves to Flash dance and would practice them in my room...in a slip!
CKXXX
08-03-2008, 03:21 PM
I am so fucking old. :( I had my first kid by then and was in college when that came out! Holy shit.
Yeah...ummm...I was out of college already when that came out....I started college Sept 1991...that came out in 1997...:-[
Jenny
08-03-2008, 03:29 PM
Can you two put your dicks away and get back to the topic at hand: 11 year old queens getting down on the pop music.
That was a joke. Sort of.
I would prefer, ideally, for you to refer to our super-fecund ovaries. But that's just me.
I stand by - cute.
Miss_Luscious
08-04-2008, 03:54 PM
I would prefer, ideally, for you to refer to our super-fecund ovaries.
I thought it was already established that I have that record in the bag here on SW. I mean, you can have second place if you want but I'm really going to need you to ease up on my top spot.