View Full Version : My hatred for men, however irrational it may be
madmaxine
08-10-2008, 10:18 PM
:O
Dang, this thread is something else.
The best, shortest answer I was given about this issue was from a dancer friend I met who served in the Army in Afghanistan & was dancing part-time after she got out of the service. She didn't hate and judge men- but I was a man-hater then....& When I told her I had seen men at their worst, she told me, "But I've seen them at their best [referring to serving with them in a war zone]." (Her father and grandfather were exceptional people also.)
I feel so sad for women who have been so hurt by men they are driven to hate all of them.......Dismissing all men in one fell swoop is as bad as racism, IMO.
AlexxaHex
08-10-2008, 10:33 PM
"At their best" meaning...killing people? I don't see how that's positive.
madmaxine
08-10-2008, 10:47 PM
Well, she meant in the sense she was treated as an equal and also treated in a protective manner by her male buddies/unit mates in Afghanistan.
On that note, I guess that's why I'm so man-positive these days- I have seen how women are treated in Third World cultures and it makes the average North American male look incredible by comparison- in many non-Westernized countries, it's not uncommon for women to be sold, beaten, and/or killed with little to no recompense (except for her material value) to her family unit. (For example, all my aunts in Mexico were married off at 13 years of age to middle-aged men- they were a "drain" on their families and worth more to a man who could "afford" them.)
Men might be hard to understand and annoying at times, but I can honestly say I literally owe my life to men. Two male bystanders came to my rescue when some fucking weirdo stalker was trying to get me into his car. They saved me and then disappeared. I try to think of that when I get annoyed by Male Antics.
greenidlady1
08-11-2008, 04:54 AM
I still feel a little bit of it sometimes. Saturday I was cutting this man's hair who reminded me a custy I had as a stripper. He was bragging and going on and on about his assets and places he had visited. For a flash second I wanted to stab him with my shears. Then I just realized he was a idiot who had the social skills of a second grader and I was better than that. He wasn't worth my hostility.
It's getting better though for me. I realize we all have struggles men and women alike. I also realize I have control over my emotions and that just b/c a lot the customers I encountered when I danced were men thinking with their penises didn't make them bad people. I chose to work in a industry that catered to drunk, horny men so of course I had endure the bs that goes along with it. Now I cater to mostly emotional women going through mid-life crisises who want to feel better and look younger. After enduring several bitch/rant sessions and my trying to figure out what the hell to do a man will come in who just wants a haircut, no complicated color or cut that takes an hour to do. At that point I realize what simple creatures men are.
teeth_of_the_hydra
08-13-2008, 09:19 AM
To echo aviendha's incisive critique of male entitlement, I've found that what I dislike most about men is how much they want. I realized when I went back to waitressing this summer that I hadn't escaped Male Entitlement by leaving the SC. No: the clusters of paunchy, rheumy-eyed retirees, dropped off to drink bourbon en masse while their wives shopped for souvenirs, needed so much from me that I was constantly astonished and exhausted. They wanted to know not only where I was from, but what I did there: if had kids, if I was married and had a husband who supported me with a "real job." How old I was... and if I was being nice to them or they were tanked already, they'd all agree that I looked so young for 25, but if they had picked up on my aggravation they'd often sniffle that they thought I was a few years older. They'd assault me with questions as I stood there with ten plates in my hands. They'd touch my hair and make unfunny quips ("I've seen bad hair days before, but I've never touched one!" [a real quote]) or grab my wrist and finger my tattoo ("I see your little secret there..." [another real quote]).
Twice I broke down sobbing because I couldn't bear feeling so violated but also so unjustifiably insanesimply because the male patrons were acting like grabby, prying douches. I developed a reputation among my coworkers as something of "damaged goods," as bad behavior on behalf of male diners could send me into tears, which I assume seemed to hint at a sordid past. I've wondered if maybe I am damaged from stripping... but even if I am, I'm 500X more damaged by sexual assault that occurred outside of the SC.
RebeccaSolidarity
08-13-2008, 09:54 AM
i do not dislike men as a general rule, but i definitely do not trust them until they prove tht they are otherwise deserving of trust. not even the kind of trust that one gives to friends. i am talking about the basic trust that exists between casual strangers, the 'i trust that you will not spontaneously try to kill me, rape me or otherwise assault me' kind of trust.
men. when i like them, i totally like them. but when i dont... bleeeh...
AlexxaHex
08-13-2008, 05:42 PM
i do not dislike men as a general rule, but i definitely do not trust them until they prove tht they are otherwise deserving of trust. not even the kind of trust that one gives to friends. i am talking about the basic trust that exists between casual strangers, the 'i trust that you will not spontaneously try to kill me, rape me or otherwise assault me' kind of trust.
men. when i like them, i totally like them. but when i dont... bleeeh...
That's really how I feel. You summed it up better than I could! Instead I just used the catch-all word of "hate" to describe my feelings.
TOTH - that is really sad to read. I hope that these feelings somehow subside when I'm done dancing and now I don't know if I have so much hope about that.
keira0304
08-13-2008, 06:32 PM
men suck.
Sveta
08-14-2008, 12:08 PM
men suck.
well, 99% of them do. There are a few good ones though. :) I couldn't care less what kind of person a customer in the club is, as long as he's giving me money.
For relationships, I go for uber-laid-back gentle shy somewhat-effeminate type-B submissive geeky artsy intellectual pets...who not only allow me to be the dominant one, but actually like it that way. :)
RebeccaSolidarity
08-14-2008, 04:55 PM
^
nooo. approximately ten to twenty percent of them suck.
the rest are straight.
or lying to themselves.
OH! zinger!
heehee....
doll baby
09-10-2008, 02:03 PM
There are some good men i just hurt mine really bad .I WILL REGRET IT FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.
StarryEyes
09-10-2008, 02:13 PM
i do not dislike men as a general rule, but i definitely do not trust them until they prove tht they are otherwise deserving of trust. not even the kind of trust that one gives to friends. i am talking about the basic trust that exists between casual strangers, the 'i trust that you will not spontaneously try to kill me, rape me or otherwise assault me' kind of trust.
men. when i like them, i totally like them. but when i dont... bleeeh...
I find that not only do I feel this way about men. I feel this way about everyone.
*sigh*
Paintbaby
09-14-2008, 07:23 PM
Menz biggest fear is that women willl laugh at them. Well, our biggest fear is that they will kill us. I read that somewhere once, and it really stuck with me. So, boo-fucking-hoo, boys.
DarkMoon08
09-14-2008, 09:22 PM
I used to hate men. Used to hate the very ground they walked on. I got into the Female Supremacy ideaology (sp) as well. But somewhere along the line things changed for me and I no longer hate them. Got no love for the kromagnons though (that would be the ones that feel a woman has her place as helpless, weaker, and incapable of taking care of herself..needing them to rule over her and take care of her, etc).
That kind of man turns my stomach. As does preachers that preach about a woman's place in the home as second fiddle to the man (the supposed 'head of the house').
Kalligirl
09-14-2008, 10:51 PM
It just keeps getting worse. I think I started feeling this way when I was a dominatrix. I started reading a lot about Female Supremacy, and slowly started adopting a lot of the sentiments as truth. In some ways I do believe that women are superior to men.
But slowly through my time dancing, that feeling turned to hatred. Believe it or not, my experience with strip club customers struck more of a chord than the experiences with my "extreme" submissive customers. Even the ones who were really "fucked up". I used to provide more contact before I got pregnant and while I don't feel bad about it now, I feel like I can't do it again. Sometimes after work I would picture myself getting violent with customers who'd pissed me off during the day, or those who tried to rape me with their hands or worse. Once I was dancing nude for a guy who pulled his dick out while my back was turned, knowing that it was dark and I might not see it before I sat back down.
Outside of work, I've had many (too many to count) experiences with abusive men and have seen men commit violent, disgusting and abusive acts on those weaker or smaller than them. Men start all the wars in the world. Men are serial killers, rapists, murderers and violate people far more than women.
I know logically that women are fucked up too. I've been hurt by them in my time and I KNOW what they are capable of.
But why do I feel like men are scum? Why do I cringe when even a good one wants to hug me, or shake my hand or even hold the door open at the bank? All I can think is, "Fucking bastard. He probably molests his daugher...or beats his wife.". I have heard so many disturbing confessions and bold faced lies come out of their mouths that I can probably never trust one again. I don't want to be this way because I know my dude is a good person and he's paying for this awful view I have of men. When he tries to hug me after work I just feel like hiding. :'(
Does anyone else feel this way?
I feel like this a lot.
jessica_rabbit
09-14-2008, 11:20 PM
The thing that I really hate most about men is the extremely pervasive entitlement attitude. Why is it, when a man enters a relationship with a woman, he abdicates as much responsibility as possible to her except that which provides direct benefit to him?
I mean, the story is "I work hard, that's my role" but please. These days most women work full-time, too. They both go to college. They both have debts and expenses to pay. And yet 9 out of 10 relationships, the woman gradually ends up doing more and more to support both of them (more housework, raising the kids) while the man essentially does nothing to expand his role in taking on the greater responsibilities. You hear a million stories about husbands who don't help, who spend their paychecks on themselves and then bitch when their wives buy anything except basic necessities for the whole family.
HOW many times have we heard the same old saw that unless you give repeated verbal instructions to a man to do the dishes, help with the kids, mow the lawn, pick up some groceries, that he shouldn't be expected to do it because he's not a mind-reader? WHY THE FUCK NOT? Did he starve to death and wear the same pair of pants 100 times prior to marriage because someone didn't program the day's tasks into his brain? Why do they honestly and genuinely think that 8 hours in the office entitles them to come home, have dinner made for them, and have absolutely no more responsibilties until it's time to drive to work the next morning? Why do men constantly claim that they're the driving force that makes the world turn (witness all the men who claim that society would crumble if women were in charge), yet they can't put a fucking dish into the dishwasher, or change a diaper, or schedule their own dentist appointment? My own BIL tries to get out of doing the grocery shopping by claiming he can't figure out what food to buy. Apparently 9 years of being together has caused such irreversible brain damage that he can no longer recognize what he likes to eat.
And when you point out that most households are two-income out of necessity and that it shouldn't exactly be rocket science that each person should contribute 50/50 (in whatever arrangement suits them best), I've seen SO many men work themselves into a *fury* about how "society has been destroyed" by all these "independent women" who expect them to get up off their fucking ass instead of "treating a man like a man".
Honestly, that is what keeps me from even dating, much less feel the desire to have a long-term or, God forbid, permanent relationship. I do not want to do the work of two people, when one of those people is perfectly capable of doing his own share. And yes, there are, of course, men who are exceptions to the rule. But in every relationship I've been in, every relationship I've seen, I see it happen over and over. The guy stops thinking and doing for himself and the woman has to pick up the slack. I feel so much rage when I think about having to spend my life like that.
I actually just got out of a relationship where I knew I WOULD have had to spend my life like that. My ex can keep a house and pick up after himself, fine. But he can't keep a job or pay his bills on time to save his life, and worse, he has the attitude that he "deserves" whatever toy caught his eye in a given week, more than the bills "deserve" to be paid, or even considering that his actions might hurt someone else. (Like me, for instance, when he wouldn't have the money to cover said bills.) And his incredibly horrible financial situation reflects that. And yet he wasn't concerned, because he figured it wouldn't be an issue since I'd be the one buying the house, and I'd just got a new car that he could've used when his crapped out.
Fortunately, I could see that coming a mile away and dumped him, thank God, but Jesus H. Christ. In some way or another, in each relationship I've had, the man in question has expected that since we were together, he could delegate some of his responsibilities to me and thus have more freedom to do what he wished. Every single one.
I work full-time (two jobs, if you count ChaCha as one), pay all my bills, clean my own home, save for my own retirement. I wouldn't, and don't, ask any man to do things for me that I wouldn't do for myself. I refuse to tolerate the attitude that a wife (or SO) is supposed to take on extra work so the man can live some kind of charmed, pampered life. I am not a fucking servant.
And it just kills me, the amount of resistance I get to that idea. Kills me. And makes me hate men for thinking that way. Like serious, murderous hate.
I just have to remember that, as annoying and shitty as men are and how slim the pickin's are, nobody's holding a gun to my head and saying, "Pick a guy to marry," like a horrible game of musical chairs, and then I have to suffer for the next 40 years with whatever schmuck I ended up with. Women had to do that in the past, but now they don't. I don't. Everything I have and work for is MINE. I don't need to give anything up for anyone.
Hallelujah! I think I love you. Thank you, thank you for putting my feelings into words.
cadenceq
09-15-2008, 05:23 AM
Working in a strip club has really made me feel an absolute contempt for men too. I also look at them and go "wife beater....rapist.....paedophile."..................And then I feel powerful for taking their money because I feel I deserve it more than they do.
If you even look at some of the responses I give on the "Shop Talk" with men you'll see there's a definite dislike for male customers.
Mainly I feel I'm like this because I've had men treat me like I'm a whore, or who've tried to use their fingers and tongues on me. Mainly though, I hate them because they are old and ugly and I'm young, vibrant and beautiful. All us strippers are beautiful and powerful, and they think they can sleep with us. That's what goes through their filthy minds - THAT THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO FUCK A YOUNG, PRETTY WOMAN. That's what angers me most, the fact that they think I'd want to fuck them, they're disgusting. They're perverts, and so long as I can keep taking their money, I'll stay.
But this doesn't apply to all men. I love my father, brother, boyfriend and male friends. I love my male workmates who make me laugh in my other job. I even don't mind the young men who come into the club for a bit of fun on a drunken night (so long as they're native Australian, young, nice, respectful and normal), because those are the sort of guys who do have a right to think they might have a chance with me.
It's just the one's that think they have a right to touch me when they don't. I don't care how much money they've paid, if they're old, ugly, foreign, disrespectful or in anyway distasteful, then they desrve contempt, and I deserve every tip I get.
It's just lucky I'm a good actor and can get away with thee feelings I have for the perverts who come in.
cadenceq
09-15-2008, 05:46 AM
, And if they do manage to get their dick wet? Understand intrinsically that it is no success of their own- they had nothing to do with it."
.... :-X
That's the best thing I've read and it sums it up............All these men think they've achieved something for degrading me in a SC, they haven't, they've just been degraded by paying for the opportunity. They had to resort to something as base, and mercantile as money to fulfil a (perverted) need. I can at least get my rocks off for free, without losing my own, or violating another persons power.
That's all it is, I hate these men for the fact that they feel they have bought my power over me, for feeling that for 15 minutes they own my body and everything they associate with it (not they'd be likely to associate a brain or feelings with it). I feel contempt for the fact that they need to feel not just personal power, but power over another human being in order to feel good about themselves. All they really bought was rights to see something as ubiquitous (yet beautiful and magical) as the naked female form, which there is nothing wrong with. The only time it becomes wrong is when they believe they "bought" you. No, you agreed to allow them that right, you granted the privelege, you are the one in power.
They achieved nothing, you however have managed to exploit their need and turn it into a monetary figure for which you will be willing to grant them permission for 15 minutes of teasing, nothing more.
I guess I just hate the thought of my freedom being violated.
venusace138
09-15-2008, 06:04 AM
I've never been a man hater and probobly never will be. And stripping has helped me better understand the male brain, which I'm actually grateful for : P.
HOWEVER, working in Dallas has really opened my eyes up to how exploitive a lot of men can be.
What bothers me is that a lot of customers here eagerly seek (or try to create) weaknesses they can exploit for their own gain. I've met and danced for plenty of assholes, but none as manipulative as guys out here are.
We get a lot of customers and some of these guys have a lot of $, but stripping is very much a buyers market here, so guys at my club will abuse girls as much as they possibly can. As bold as this is to say, they think they're entitled to rape us for $20.00 or even free. EVERY SINGLE DAY I go to work, I'm pulling hands out of my thong because guys assume dance = fingering and ass fingering free for all. And they'll stop buying dances and hold out for the chick that gives it all away. And theres the guys who grab boobs and butts if you walk past them, who've lately taken to shoving hands down thongs as well. They KNOW this is isn't allowed, but they don't CARE. They know the girls are struggling, and they GET OFF on desperation.
venusace138
09-15-2008, 06:10 AM
I feel contempt for the fact that they need to feel not just personal power, but power over another human being in order to feel good about themselves.
Wonderfully put.
misspthesweetesttaboo
09-23-2008, 06:56 PM
I've never been a man hater and probobly never will be. And stripping has helped me better understand the male brain, which I'm actually grateful for : P.
HOWEVER, working in Dallas has really opened my eyes up to how exploitive a lot of men can be.
What bothers me is that a lot of customers here eagerly seek (or try to create) weaknesses they can exploit for their own gain. I've met and danced for plenty of assholes, but none as manipulative as guys out here are.
We get a lot of customers and some of these guys have a lot of $, but stripping is very much a buyers market here, so guys at my club will abuse girls as much as they possibly can. As bold as this is to say, they think they're entitled to rape us for $20.00 or even free. EVERY SINGLE DAY I go to work, I'm pulling hands out of my thong because guys assume dance = fingering and ass fingering free for all. And they'll stop buying dances and hold out for the chick that gives it all away. And theres the guys who grab boobs and butts if you walk past them, who've lately taken to shoving hands down thongs as well. They KNOW this is isn't allowed, but they don't CARE. They know the girls are struggling, and they GET OFF on desperation.
that's why i'm breaking from MIA right now... there are no sc's out where i am in Alabama and all i do is really go to school now- but even my professor has noticeable trick tendencies.... i guess i do look at guys a little different now. Definitely strickly dickly still tho i don't mind the ladies who like-a lickin'... DO YOU! Don't let the bastards make you bitter tho- everyone has issues- hatred is more damaging to the hater than the hate-ee.:)
charlie61
09-23-2008, 07:03 PM
No-- I generally love men. I love how they can seem so simple, yet are often so complex. Both women and men can be assholes, of course.
I addressed this issue (the reaction some women have to dancing and their opinions of men) in my "Why do patrons want to touch the dancers" thread in CC. Oftentimes strippers' defensiveness/awareness of the human condition is perceived as a negative, rather than a realistic, point of view.
lexi2008
09-26-2008, 12:53 PM
I don't know if I'm to the point of hating men, but dancing has definitely amplified my pity/disgust for most of them that I already felt.
These men must logically know that we are putting on a show, literally, and are not really head over heels in love with their middle aged, drunken, hairy, sweaty, grabby, dull, pitifully easy to manipulate selves. They must know in some corner of their mind that this young, attractive woman would not be dancing anywhere NEAR him if she wasn't being paid very well to do so. Despite all that, the majority of these guys act as if their brains do not exist and they have every right to stick any appendage of their body in any orifice of ours -- AND THAT WE WOULD LIKE IT, despite repeatedly telling them they are not allowed to touch in that spot or to DO NOT use your mouth on me.
I feel, sadly, like I am quickly approaching hating men although the seeds of those feelings were planted before I ever started dancing. Generally at this point, I feel pity for how simple minded they seem and disdain for how crude and vulgar, not to mention egotisical, they can be.
oulala
09-26-2008, 08:49 PM
I hated men before I ever entered the industry. I feel like I'm still taking the same old stupid shit they dish out, except at least now I'm getting paid for it instead of under the guise of "love."
thread
10-01-2008, 05:59 PM
If you think that about guys.... You should hear what guys think about girls...
Truth is...
Were all just people. There are GOOD people and there are BAD people.
Theres alot of bad guys and girls out there... So I think you need to see that, because this post is kinda depressing and you shouldnt think this way because it wont serve you in the future...
Maybe you shouldnt be dancing anymore, it might be hurting your view of the world. If you hang out in places like that, your going to see alot of scum...
If you work at a coffee shop, your going to see alot of sophisitcated respectful guys...
Luck to you
JC