View Full Version : ungrateful
britt244
08-10-2008, 08:35 AM
^^
not to mention there are ugly girls who bank!!
I do appreciate my body but I also work had at it. I go to the gym, I eat well. Shit I feel like eating junk all the time but I don't because I want to look a certain way. If others cant do that, it's really not my problem and I'm not going to feel sorry for them.
exactly. it's not some magical gift that girls are just naturally pretty/thin/whatever. thats why we spend time putting on makeup, doing our hair, working out, getting plastic surgery, etc.
NewMoon
08-10-2008, 08:35 AM
^^
not to mention there are ugly girls who bank!!
Yeah but they either need to hustle 10X harder than any other girls or do extras. The pretty girls have it easier in stripping.
britt244
08-10-2008, 08:36 AM
^^^Yeah but the ugly people have it harder. I really appreciate the fact that I am beautiful and it helps me immensely.
There is a girl at my club who is really ugly and she makes about $30-40 on a good shift selling $5 dances. Management doesn't even put her onstage. I don't bother to complain to management that she is selling $5 dances because she is no competition to me whatsoever.
I didn't choose my looks or my body and neither did this girl. I am appreciative I got lucky.
you have not been dancing even a year. report back in a few, please. there are ugly girls who BANK. you're basing everything you "know" off of your experiences in 9 months of dancing, in one club (correct?), because of the girls you've seen. that is very limited knowledge.
britt244
08-10-2008, 08:37 AM
Yeah but they either need to hustle 10X harder than any other girls or do extras. The pretty girls have it easier in stripping.
NO. that is NOT TRUE.
can i be honest here and tell you why your posts rub me the wrong way? you took a very technical and scientific approach to dancing. you talk about DW pretty often, and you kind of have this "i know it all" attitude, when, as my post above says, you really have a very very very limited sample to judge anything by.
jaizaine
08-10-2008, 08:37 AM
Again I dont really understand what this whole point about being appreciative about looks etc has to do with a certain girl being dissatisfied with making a certain amount of money per shift.
I set my own goals and I have certain amounts of money that if I leave the club with I will be happy but if I don't I think i could have worked harder or done something differently. I feel dissatisfied. Just because some girls make less than me will not change my mind about what amount I think I should leave with. I know what i am capable of making so I strive to make that amount and more.
NewMoon
08-10-2008, 08:38 AM
you have not been dancing even a year. report back in a few, please. there are ugly girls who BANK. you're basing everything you "know" off of your experiences in 9 months of dancing, in one club (correct?), because of the girls you've seen. that is very limited knowledge.
I've danced at several clubs and I feel I have the right to have an opinion with my one year or dancing.
I said above that ugly girls banks either because they are hustle their ass off or do extras or something else. Basically it's harder for ugly girls.
I'm not even going to consider the possibility that being uglier helps you at stripping.....
NewMoon
08-10-2008, 08:40 AM
NO. that is NOT TRUE.
can i be honest here and tell you why your posts rub me the wrong way? you took a very technical and scientific approach to dancing. you talk about DW pretty often, and you kind of have this "i know it all" attitude, when, as my post above says, you really have a very very very limited sample to judge anything by.
If I am coming across with a know-it-all attitue, then I apologize because I'm actually not like that at all. I just have an opinion that I'm expressing.
britt244
08-10-2008, 08:40 AM
I've danced at several clubs and I feel I have the right to have an opinion with my one year or dancing.
I said above that ugly girls banks either because they are hustle their ass off or do extras or something else. Basically it's harder for ugly girls.
I'm not even going to consider the possibility that being uglier helps you at stripping.....
welll, i think you're wrong. unattractive girls do not all do extras or have to work 10x harder than you or i do. i've seen it with my own eyes, and i know, for a fact, that it is much much more about how good a hustler you are than what you look like.
jaizaine
08-10-2008, 08:43 AM
I dont want to come off as argumentative at all NM coz I think u r a cool chick. I just don't understand some of your points.
It makes me feel that u dont think u deserve good money or something, I might be wrong. But comparing our lives to 3rd world countries or comparing being attractive to being unattractive and how it must be harder. I don't think u need to focus your energy on all this stuff. Sure some people have it harder than others, that's the way of the world but it shouldn't let it affect you on a personal level. You should set your own goals and decide what u r happy with getting out of dancing and how much u think u should make etc.
britt244
08-10-2008, 08:44 AM
^ exactly. survival of the fittest. that's just how life is. there has to be people who are better than you, and people who are worse than you, in terms of looks, money, whatever. everyone isnt going to be equal.
NewMoon
08-10-2008, 08:47 AM
I dont want to come off as argumentative at all NM coz I think u r a cool chick. I just don't understand some of your points.
It makes me feel that u dont think u deserve good money or something, I might be wrong. But comparing our lives to 3rd world countries or comparing being attractive to being unattractive and how it must be harder. I don't think u need to focus your energy on all this stuff. Sure some people have it harder than others, that's the way of the world but it shouldn't let it affect you on a personal level. You should set your own goals and decide what u r happy with getting out of dancing and how much u think u should make etc.
Thanks for your honesty, jaizaine. I definitely feel I deserve good money, just like I feel I deserve a good family. But it doesn't make me not appreciate my family just because I think I deserve it, ya know?
Anyways, I think I'm going to try and stay out of this thread now. Thanks to those who shared their views!
virgoamm
08-10-2008, 09:05 AM
Well, for what it's worth, I totally agree with you New Moon. I'm sorry, but with today's economy $50+ an hour is nothing to cough at. And if you're a rich stripper and make thousands of dollars a night-GOOD FOR YOU. Not every area has that kind of money potential. Now go play with your monocle or roll around in a bed full of money or something.
VegasPrincess
08-10-2008, 09:29 AM
Wow, I read this whole threat and I think maybe some of the reason it's causing arguements ia the symantics....
Me for instance: I am very grateful to be in this industry because I enjoy it and it gives me a lot of freedom.
HOWEVER
I just moved to Milwaukee from Las Vegas. It's dissapointing and it makes me angry to go to work on say Saturday night and leave with 250 dollars....sometimes there is LITERALLY not the potential for me to make more and I really had to bust ass to make THAT. Where as if I was back home, I think about how much more money I would have and how much easier it would have been and more fun to get it. And it makes me bitter and I feel that I deserve more for what I am doing, etc.....That's why I started doing phone/cam stuff latelty to be quite honest...
So, while I am still grateful to be in this industry and yes 250 dollars a day is more than I would make elsewhere, after working the majority of my life in Chicago and Vegas, this is quite insulting and it sucks. Yet, I would still rather do this than anything else and I'm grateful to do it in the sense that I like it better than any other job.
virgoamm
08-10-2008, 09:49 AM
Great post, VP.
Jenny
08-10-2008, 10:20 AM
I think there is a difference between being slightly above average and being in the top 5%. I can tell you that there is nothing for which I would be dissatisfied should I be in the top 5%. And I'm speaking of that which is up to chance and not what you accomplish. For example, if I was in the top 5% of beautiful beautiful in the world, I would not complain that I am not pretty enough.
Sure. But we don't look at work as being a passive luck-draw. We look at earnings as being duly compensated for labour. So evaluating that relates to the market value, skill, ability etc. of the labourer. I don't see what "gratitude" has to do with anything.
I wouldn't say the gratitude needs to be to someone in particular. Life is just not fair and those who have it better than the rest should be appreciative IMO.
Hmm. I don't think being glad that I'm wasn't born in a ghetto in Calcutta means that I have to be grateful that I'm underearning in my field in an urban centre in Canada.
I find it interesting you should think that my line of thinking is "male". Please explain further!
Anecdotally, I think that a lot of resentment against dancers comes from a line of thought from men that we have no right to be making more money than men in similar skilled jobs. That's why you have the traditional idea that calling the police for theft of service when a dancer gets ripped off $300 is ridiculous, while it makes perfect sense for a corner store to call them over a stolen belt or lighter - because it money isn't really ours. It's a kind of gift. Similarly when customers discuss tipping us - very seldom is the discussion focusing on "well, dancers are self-employed, keep the majority of the product they sell, and are not analogous to people we generally tip. Instead you get comments like "She just got $20 for 4 minutes; she doesn't deserve a tip on top of that."
If I may quote:
Trawling for men, by contrast, the female prostitute puts a price on her labors. The sex worker cocks a snook at Johnson's famous edict that "on the chastity of women all property in the world depends"-demanding, and generally getting, better money for her services than the average, male, white-collar worker. Society demonizes sex workers because they demand more money than women should, for services men expect for free.
It's about prostitutes, but I think it translates.
NewMoon
08-10-2008, 10:24 AM
^^^I now see what you mean. I do not usually respond politely when men make such comments. I do get that attitude from women as well though!
I don't think my attitude was quite as extreme as above. Again, I think people are misinterpreting my view that we should be grateful as being the same as "undeserving."
VegasPrincess
08-10-2008, 10:24 AM
Great post, VP.
Thanks :)
i.breathe.in
08-10-2008, 10:25 AM
^^^Yeah but the ugly people have it harder. I really appreciate the fact that I am beautiful and it helps me immensely.
then why are you bitching about other peoples earnings.
and btw beauty is in the eye of the beholder sweetiepants. thats for damn sure. :O
Jenny
08-10-2008, 10:36 AM
^^^I now see what you mean. I do not usually respond politely when men make such comments. I do get that attitude from women as well though!
I don't think my attitude was quite as extreme as above.
No, of course not. But I think it is the line of thought that says we should just be grateful for what we can get as opposed to having reasonable expectations of our earnings. These expectations will likely be formed by our earning patterns, and the patterns of other people similarly "skilled" in our field and geographcial area, not what people are earning in rural China, or what people are earning for minimum wage jobs, you know?
Again, I think people are misinterpreting my view that we should be grateful as being the same as "undeserving."
This may be true to some degree; but I'm not sure how to understand "she should be grateful that she's not earning less" when a dancer has not earned good money in a shift as excluding "undeserving".
NewMoon
08-10-2008, 10:43 AM
No, of course not. But I think it is the line of thought that says we should just be grateful for what we can get as opposed to having reasonable expectations of our earnings. These expectations will likely be formed by our earning patterns, and the patterns of other people similarly "skilled" in our field and geographcial area, not what people are earning in rural China, or what people are earning for minimum wage jobs, you know? I can appreciate that. This particular dancer makes $300-400 dayshift and expects $800 in her 5 hour shift. I would conclude that based on the above her expectations are unreasonable. I think $1750 for 20 hours a week consistent is reasonable.
This may be true to some degree; but I'm not sure how to understand "she should be grateful that she's not earning less" when a dancer has not earned good money in a shift as excluding "undeserving". This is entering very tricky territory of placing a dollar amount on our bodies. I'm not sure if you read my thread about the prof who has studied stripping but she wrote:
"Things that used to be done without economic exchange - food preparation, house cleaning, child and elder care - can be purchased. Perhaps it's not surprising that intimacy has entered the marketplace."
The above are "priceless" but when they enter the marketplace, they must have a dollar value. I don't want to comment on exactly what we deserve for letting men look at and touch our bodies. But the fact is that regardless of what we "deserve," it's a market. I feel the same about my other job which is teaching piano. I am giving children the gift of music and I feel that what I do with them is priceless and that I technically deserve way more than I am making. But again, it's a market and to some degree I feel all is fair where the market works it out.
Jenny
08-10-2008, 10:56 AM
I can appreciate that. This particular dancer makes $300-400 dayshift and expects $800 in her 5 hour shift. I would conclude that based on the above her expectations are unreasonable. I think $1750 for 20 hours a week consistent is reasonable.
Meh. I think what she is used to selling in that 20 hours might have something to do with it too. Like If she is complaining endlessly about not earning - like if she always earns $500 and just thinks she ought to earn $800 - I would characterize that more like "waste of energy complaint" than lack of gratitude.
bThis is entering very tricky territory of placing a dollar amount on our bodies. I'm not sure if you read my thread about the prof who has studied stripping but she wrote:
"Things that used to be done without economic exchange - food preparation, house cleaning, child and elder care - can be purchased. Perhaps it's not surprising that intimacy has entered the marketplace."
The above are "priceless" but when they enter the marketplace, they must have a dollar value. I don't want to comment on exactly what we deserve for letting men look at and touch our bodies. But the fact is that regardless of what we "deserve," it's a market. I feel the same about my other job which is teaching piano. I am giving children the gift of music and I feel that what I do with them is priceless and that I technically deserve way more than I am making. But again, it's a market and to some degree I feel all is fair where the market works it out.
Well, actually - if you look at all that kind of labour in terms of "women's work" and "female subsidy" it has a different meaning again, and relates back to McLintock's quote - the idea being that people resent paying women for work they are meant to do for free. The argument that they should be satisfied "doing good" and grateful to be earning at all has been traditionally used to suppress the market value of "women's work." That's part of what makes sex workers bad girls, NM.
NewMoon
08-10-2008, 11:06 AM
Meh. I think what she is used to selling in that 20 hours might have something to do with it too. Like If she is complaining endlessly about not earning - like if she always earns $500 and just thinks she ought to earn $800 - I would characterize that more like "waste of energy complaint" than lack of gratitude. I guess it was more the fact that I interpreted her words as "let's sit in the dressing room and feel sorry for ourselves." There are a million people in the world I would feel bad for before I feel bad about strippers making $300-400 in a 5 hour shift.
Well, actually - if you look at all that kind of labour in terms of "women's work" and "female subsidy" it has a different meaning again, and relates back to McLintock's quote - the idea being that people resent paying women for work they are meant to do for free. The argument that they should be satisfied "doing good" and grateful to be earning at all has been traditionally used to suppress the market value of "women's work." That's part of what makes sex workers bad girls, NM. Wow, thank you so much for posting that. That is AMAZING! I somehow didn't realize that the activities posted in the quote have been traditionally viewed as "women's work." I can't even imagine how that went right over my head.
That makes so much sense!
Thanks so much for discussing this with me, Jenny. I can't express how much I love debating with someone who takes what I say seriously and doesn't just dismiss me, and then helps me grow and shape my views. I appreciate your contributions!
txchick008
08-10-2008, 11:08 AM
I just moved to Milwaukee from Las Vegas.
<----- Hometown: Milwaukee. How are you liking it, otherwise?
(sorry, total thread jack!) }:D
MeanGirl
08-10-2008, 02:01 PM
I think there is a difference between being slightly above average and being in the top 5%. I can tell you that there is nothing for which I would be dissatisfied should I be in the top 5%. And I'm speaking of that which is up to chance and not what you accomplish. For example, if I was in the top 5% of beautiful beautiful in the world, I would not complain that I am not pretty enough.
I wouldn't say the gratitude needs to be to someone in particular. Life is just not fair and those who have it better than the rest should be appreciative IMO.
I find it interesting you should think that my line of thinking is "male". Please explain further!
I still don't get where you got the idea that we are in the top 5% of earners. You keep mentioning it like it's a fact or something.
MeanGirl
08-10-2008, 02:06 PM
Yeah but they either need to hustle 10X harder than any other girls or do extras. The pretty girls have it easier in stripping.
I'm sorry this is just ignorant.
MichelleJade
08-10-2008, 02:08 PM
Cinnamonkisses, your opinion makes a lot of sense. But it doesn't matter whether I'm working at McDonald's for minimum wage or the best club in the area - I work hard at what I do. I can hang out on my own time, at work I'm too busy working! I'm just saying, money is great to have, and it sucks when there's less of it around, but I choose not to make a job my lifestyle, or depend on it for happiness.
(I know money is sort of revelant to the amount of happiness unfortunately, but I try my best to be optimistic regardless!) I know a lot of you came from poorer homes, keeping that in mind isn't life good now?
i.breathe.in
08-10-2008, 02:09 PM
I'm sorry this is just ignorant.
what do you expect shes a noob dancer who thinks she knows it all. ::)
VegasPrincess
08-10-2008, 02:11 PM
<----- Hometown: Milwaukee. How are you liking it, otherwise?
(sorry, total thread jack!) }:D
Oh my god going to PM you!!!
On topic.....
My cousin is LITERALLY the prettiest person I have ever seen in real life, and she gets very bad anxiety and has a hard time dancing. She will get nervous and just stay at a table talking to a guy after they tell her they don't want a dance and she will just stay even after I try to get her up and walking around. I almost always did better than her at work, and she is hotter than me. For sure. Dance is a hustle...it's not like we stand in a line up and guys come up to us and say "Oh, that one is the hottest I'll take her" or any such shit.
mollyzmoon
08-10-2008, 03:47 PM
I out earn lots of girls way prettier than me, mostly because they don't sell very hard/ aren't working the floor as much, etc. I don't think Newmoon meant as a rule, pretty sells better. Guys will very, very often go for the girl who talks to them and makes a pitch, rather than their favourite looking who is not coming over and asking for dances. In the most basic sense, this is just one example of how pretty, while certainly no hindrance, doth not a good saleswoman make.
Other than that, well hey. I complain to my boyfriend if I've made what I consider subpar cash. And he'll be all 'pssshhh, I hate you'. And I say 'well you're not taking your pants off, buster'. He says 'fair enough'. That's how I see it. A drop in earnings warrants lacking morale, not that I condone dressing room despair. It's easy to avoid by just getting out of there, though. They may think I'm a snob at work for my lack of socializing, but being a sympathetic ear to other dancers, when I could be working, doesn't earn me a dime.
Other than that, all I can say to whoever was complaining, I know A GOOD reason why earnings have taken a nosedive in the last year. Especially during dayshift, when having the old walls, versus the no walls and lots of supervision, made a huge difference for lots of ladies with their regulars. Seeing as though the new regulations are out of our hands, it's easy to see why it pisses girls off. Personally, I think my earnings are nearly what they always were, even in the heyday three years ago. I'm not implying she was doing anything untoward, especially by the old standards, but some of the girls' hustles haven't been able to adapt to the new environment as well. (And frankly, it's still possible to make 800 on a dayshift, although tricky, and maybe not everyday, still doable)
NewMoon
08-10-2008, 07:53 PM
I don't think Newmoon meant as a rule, pretty sells better.three years ago. Thanks for understanding what I meant. I just meant that being prettier is better and makes it easier! If we take 2 identical dancers in terms of hustle, personality, ect. but one is prettier, they will likely do better! I don't see how being uglier could be an advantage.
NewMoon
08-10-2008, 07:55 PM
I still don't get where you got the idea that we are in the top 5% of earners. You keep mentioning it like it's a fact or something.
I didn't say we are in the top 5% of earners. I have no idea where we stand, actually, but I would be interested to know.
NewMoon
08-10-2008, 08:11 PM
I'm sorry this is just ignorant.
If I'm ignorant, then educate me!
I don't mean to sound rude but when I post my opinion on something, I expect some people to agree with me and I expect others to disagree with me and express their views.
Posts such as "You're wrong. I have been dancing longer than you" seem a little pointless.
Tell me why! Despite what people seem to think, I'm not a know-it-all. I take a rather academic approach to discussion sometimes and I like to make a strong argument but I love it even more when someone educates me and proves me wrong because I actually got something out of the discussion!
veronicachick
08-10-2008, 08:28 PM
welll, i think you're wrong. unattractive girls do not all do extras or have to work 10x harder than you or i do. i've seen it with my own eyes, and i know, for a fact, that it is much much more about how good a hustler you are than what you look like.
I somewhat agree because i have seen some of the hottest chicks not bank as much as another who most might not consider a dime.
so yeaaa... generalizations don't apply to everyone and their club...because they are just that... general statements.
But it seems like it to me that NM is saying that generally speaking a very attractive girl might have more luck than an ugly one. A hot girl that doesn't hustle is less likely to make any money... but a hot girl that hustles will prob have more luck than the ugly girl because this is a business based on looks/body image... so that hot girl with the hot body will get noticed more often.
NewMoon
08-10-2008, 08:30 PM
I somewhat agree because i have seen some of the hottest chicks not bank as much as another who most might not consider a dime.
so yeaaa... generalizations don't apply to everyone and their club...because they are just that... general statements.
But it seems like it to me that NM is saying that generally speaking a very attractive girl might have more luck than an ugly one. A hot girl that doesn't hustle is less likely to make any money... but a hot girl that hustles will prob have more luck than the ugly girl because this is a business based on looks/body image... so that hot girl with the hot body will get noticed more often.
I certainly didn't mean that as long as you are pretty you will make money. I just mean that it helps and if you are less attractive, you can make it up in other ways. So yeah, your descriptions that a hot girl that hustles could have more luck than an ugly girl that hustles pretty much describes my opinion. But that's certainly not to say that a less attractive girl who is a great hustler and has a killer personality can't bank.
cinammonkisses
08-10-2008, 08:31 PM
If I'm ignorant, then educate me!
Honestly, it's just hard to do that. You do come across as a no it all, and I seriously doubt I am the only person. When people try to explain to you why you're wrong, it's as if you totally miss the point they are trying to make, and then take your opinion off on a whole other tangent.
NewMoon
08-10-2008, 08:33 PM
Honestly, it's just hard to do that. You do come across as a no it all, and I seriously doubt I am the only person. When people try to explain to you why you're wrong, it's as if you totally miss the point they are trying to make, and then take your opinion off on a whole other tangent.
I've always enjoyed having discussion and debates on weboards and it hasn't been well-received here.
No hard feelings. I guess I'll just stick to the more light-hearted threads and save my debates for elsewhere.
i.breathe.in
08-10-2008, 08:59 PM
Honestly, it's just hard to do that. You do come across as a no it all, and I seriously doubt I am the only person. When people try to explain to you why you're wrong, it's as if you totally miss the point they are trying to make, and then take your opinion off on a whole other tangent.
:highfive:
couldnt have put it better.
you really havent been dancing long enough to have such lofty genralizations or ideas about dancing and to claim you just know things about the buisness. thats why its not well recieved here. go work at a few other clubs and another year or so and maybe youll have your opinions changed drastically.
ViolaStrings
08-10-2008, 10:18 PM
Ok, can we all just agree that maybe we should be thankful that we're hot enough to make a great living dancing naked and enchanting strangers, and that we can do so with or without an education, and can pretty much set our own schedules and smoke and drink at work? Can we just let go of our entitlement arguments and agree we rule?
bebewood
08-11-2008, 03:22 AM
I find it odd that so many people are saying 300-400 is shit money when i see so many threads about girls making less than 100 a night and various threads about being broke.
Personally I think 300-400 for only 5 hours is great money, but I live in one of the shittiest town to dance in and most of the girls at the clubs i have passed through are averaging about 200 or less a night :-(. I wish i could complain about 300-400 a shift. If you dont want to compare it to "normal jobs" then lets compare it to other sex industry jobs. Dont porn stars only make around that much per scene? How about hookers, they get around that much for 1-2 hours of sex. to get that in 5 hours without even having to touch a bare dick is pretty awesome, i think,
As for non sex work... i guess because getting naked isnt a big deal to me and i work at a non nude club most of the time anyway, I dont really get the "we are naked therefore we deserve 1k a night" kind of mindset. I could think of a million things more gruelling and terrible than getting naked for 300 bucks a night. Office work, working at mcdonalds, answering phones, telemarketing, etc etc. I find stripping much more exciting and unboring than any other work, and given the choice of keeping my clothes on and not having to touch anyone doing "normal" work like promotional work or catering for 100-200 or stripping for 300 id chose stripping. I mean i can take breaks when i want to, i dont need to be on my feet all the time, i dont need to be talking all the time if i dont want to, i dont have a higher up yelling at me if im slacking off..
but i guess i am just a shitty stripper with low expectations :-(
bebewood
08-11-2008, 03:24 AM
exactly. it's not some magical gift that girls are just naturally pretty/thin/whatever. thats why we spend time putting on makeup, doing our hair, working out, getting plastic surgery, etc.
Lots of girls are naturally pretty......
bebewood
08-11-2008, 03:38 AM
Sure. But we don't look at work as being a passive luck-draw. We look at earnings as being duly compensated for labour. So evaluating that relates to the market value, skill, ability etc. of the labourer. I don't see what "gratitude" has to do with anything.
Hmm. I don't think being glad that I'm wasn't born in a ghetto in Calcutta means that I have to be grateful that I'm underearning in my field in an urban centre in Canada.
Anecdotally, I think that a lot of resentment against dancers comes from a line of thought from men that we have no right to be making more money than men in similar skilled jobs. That's why you have the traditional idea that calling the police for theft of service when a dancer gets ripped off $300 is ridiculous, while it makes perfect sense for a corner store to call them over a stolen belt or lighter - because it money isn't really ours. It's a kind of gift. Similarly when customers discuss tipping us - very seldom is the discussion focusing on "well, dancers are self-employed, keep the majority of the product they sell, and are not analogous to people we generally tip. Instead you get comments like "She just got $20 for 4 minutes; she doesn't deserve a tip on top of that."
If I may quote:
It's about prostitutes, but I think it translates.
Hmm maybe this is why I think differently. I have only danced in Socal so i dont know how it is in other places where men might spend more on strippers, but i totally see our earnings as based on luck. You could be the best stripper/hustler ever but if you are having a bad night and for some reason end up only hustling guys with no money, you are not going to make any money. You need to get lucky and go up to the big spenders, and its not like they are always easy to spot. A lot of time it surprises me what customers end up going into the champagne room.
I'm curious as to what you guys think our average should be if 300 bucks a shift is "underearning." I see plenty of threads where everyone is in agreeance that 1k is a great night. 1k is only 600 bucks more than 300...so why is 1k a great night and 300 a shitty night? So how does it go from shitty to great so fast? What is average? What kind of money should I be expecting as a stripper?
dangerousdiva
08-11-2008, 04:01 AM
I look as stripping as a choice. When things turned crappy for me in the 2001 recession I traveled to a more profitable venue that was less effected and when I wasn't happy there i moved on too.
I'm about progressing in life, constantly getting better and thus earning more. I think being happy with $300/shift means that you may not have ambition to do better.
I used to work in a corporate industry I would not be stripping if I wasn't out earning what I made in that field. We have choices, I don't want to settle. I don't dance because i have no options I dance because I'm progressing and achieving more through it.
It bothers me sometimes when people compare dancing with working at McDonald's. Sorry, but that would never be an option I would compare myself too.
Dancing provides so much freedom. If I wasn't happy with earning potential and/or contact, I traveled to work in better conditions to keep excelling. I don't want to be stagnant. When I finally retire from dancing it's hopefully because I'm progressed into something better.
Lysondra
08-11-2008, 04:12 AM
When I don't make the money I thought I would, I am not ugrateful. I am just disappointed. I am thankful for every dollar I had the opportunity to make. I just wish it was more.
txchick008
08-11-2008, 04:14 AM
I'm about progressing in life, constantly getting better and thus earning more. I think being happy with $300/shift means that you may not have ambition to do better.
I used to work in a corporate industry I would not be stripping if I wasn't out earning what I made in that field. We have choices, I don't want to settle. I don't dance because i have no options I dance because I'm progressing and achieving more through it.
It bothers me sometimes when people compare dancing with working at McDonald's. Sorry, but that would never be an option I would compare myself too.
Dancing provides so much freedom. If I wasn't happy with earning potential and/or contact, I traveled to work in better conditions to keep excelling. I don't want to be stagnant. When I finally retire from dancing it's hopefully because I'm progressed into something better.
^^
Very well said.
bebewood
08-11-2008, 04:28 AM
I'm about progressing in life, constantly getting better and thus earning more. I think being happy with $300/shift means that you may not have ambition to do better.
I disagree with this. Being happy with 300 a shift doesnt mean that you leave or stop trying once you made that much.
Would you say "being happy with 800/shift means you have no ambition to do better."?
Why is it okay to be happy with 800 but not 300? Of course I would like to make more than 300 but im not going to complain about making 300 bucks for only 5 hours of work. That is what I mean with being happy with it.
txchick008
08-11-2008, 04:32 AM
^^
I still think this debate is all relative (to the dancer, and to the club you work at).
For instance, if you are consistenting making at least $400-500 for a 5-hour shift, why would you leave "happy", if you made $300?
Just my $0.02
dangerousdiva
08-11-2008, 04:57 AM
The definition of what's "good money" and " bad money" depends on the individual. A lot of people in varying professions would be unhappy with $300 for five hours worth of work, not just dancers.
Once again, pay cut is a pay cut regardless of what you earn. If your average is $300 and then drops to $150 or your average is $100 and then it drops to $50 or whatever. You're not going to be happy. It's not about the quantified amount. It's about settling for less.
jaizaine
08-11-2008, 05:37 AM
Hmm maybe this is why I think differently. I have only danced in Socal so i dont know how it is in other places where men might spend more on strippers, but i totally see our earnings as based on luck. You could be the best stripper/hustler ever but if you are having a bad night and for some reason end up only hustling guys with no money, you are not going to make any money. You need to get lucky and go up to the big spenders, and its not like they are always easy to spot. A lot of time it surprises me what customers end up going into the champagne room.
I'm curious as to what you guys think our average should be if 300 bucks a shift is "underearning." I see plenty of threads where everyone is in agreeance that 1k is a great night. 1k is only 600 bucks more than 300...so why is 1k a great night and 300 a shitty night? So how does it go from shitty to great so fast? What is average? What kind of money should I be expecting as a stripper?
Let me get this right u fail to see a differrence between earning $600 extra dollars per shift.:O
BTW what is with the spiteful attitude on SW lately towards those who obviously earn more. No one can tell u what u should expect as a stripper. Everyone is diff. Some people would be happy with $300 but just because some of us wouldn't there is no need to get pissy about it (not just you Im talking generally).
Anyway yes I see a big difference if I earn $300 as compared to $1000 a night.
Lysondra
08-11-2008, 07:15 AM
$1000 a night x 150 (avg shifts a stripper works) = $150,000
$300 a night x 150 = $45000
And you wonder why?!
Arizona_Angel
08-11-2008, 08:11 AM
The definition of what's "good money" and " bad money" depends on the individual. A lot of people in varying professions would be unhappy with $300 for five hours worth of work, not just dancers.
Once again, pay cut is a pay cut regardless of what you earn. If your average is $300 and then drops to $150 or your average is $100 and then it drops to $50 or whatever. You're not going to be happy. It's not about the quantified amount. It's about settling for less.
Well put.
I can see everyone's point, but there is something to be said about a job where you can, without a high school diploma, earn as much or more than someone with a Master's Degree. You can walk in with a pair of lucite platforms and a thong and as long as you have the attitude you can have a job.
I took this job for granted when the money was unbelievable, where all you had to do was 'pose' and look pretty (mid to late '90's). I never even had to ask for a dance much less hustle for one. I didn't realize how easy I had it. Now in an economy that is crashing and burning and raising an infant alone I know I am lucky to have learned how to stay alive nowdays.
We should know what we are worth, but lately everyone has had to make adjustments for what is realistic. That is what is happening all over. It's just a fact.