View Full Version : Why do patrons want to touch the dancers?
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MeanGirl
08-25-2008, 05:25 PM
if patrons didn't want to touch we'd be out of jobs. Wanting to touch and toucing are 2 different things, but of course they want to touch::) .
xdamage
08-25-2008, 05:33 PM
if patrons didn't want to touch we'd be out of jobs. Wanting and toucing are 2 different things, but of course they want to touch::) .
Bingo!!! We have a winner. ;D
Which doesn't mean they should touch those who don't want to be, but yes, the fact that they are so driven by sexual related desires is why this job exists. Their drive is the "demand", and you are the "supply".
p.s. Yes I know the one about some guys say they just come in for "human companionship". I don't buy it. Human companionship is free and easy to fid. Human companionship with a young, hot, sexy girl is not ;) Funny how they only want "human companionship" from the later.
lestat1
08-25-2008, 05:36 PM
charlie61, are you talking about allowed touching within the rules of the club and dancer, or touching where/when it is prohibited by either or both?
CalifSCVisitor65
08-25-2008, 05:58 PM
I touch if allowed and I usually ask first. If it's a "no" so be it and honestly it'll probably be a one dance sequence. :P
I had dances take my hands and put them on her waist; so that's, where the touching comes from.
If I touch and she moves my hands then I remove my hands and go on to the next dancer.
charlie61
08-25-2008, 06:30 PM
charlie61, are you talking about allowed touching within the rules of the club and dancer, or touching where/when it is prohibited by either or both?
I'm just wondering what the motivation behind (I guess) any kind of dancer touching is.
I might just be wondering this because I'm a chick. But personally, I wouldn't want to go out and touch a stranger (even in places where it's allowed) unless I knew (or was convinced) that the other person was enjoying it. So when a patron touches a dancer (illegally or legally), I'm speculating as to why this is.
I enjoy touching people I'm dating, but it's not that pleasurable for me to run my hands up and down strangers' bodies. Maybe I'm crazy. Sorry if I'm not making myself clear...
I intended to just start a discussion about this general topic--which is why my OP wasn't in an outright Q/A form.
charlie61
08-25-2008, 06:32 PM
I touch if allowed and I usually ask first. If it's a "no" so be it and honestly it'll probably be a one dance sequence. :P
I had dances take my hands and put them on her waist; so that's, where the touching comes from.
If I touch and she moves my hands then I remove my hands and go on to the next dancer.
See--I'm not trying to add any judgment to this discussion. I'm not asking WHAT it is that you do. I'm wondering WHY you do what you do.
And again, for all those people who think my question is dumb and simplistic--it's because you don't understand it. So feel free to stay out of the thread, rather than repeating "OBVIOUSLY, ________"
rlams2000
08-25-2008, 07:28 PM
Total objectification. That's me. It's fun for a pudgy middle age man to be able to touch a pretty young lady. That's my simple answer.
What I find interesting about this thread is the different levels of contact the dancers here are comfortable with. Or not comfortable with.
Sveta
08-25-2008, 07:41 PM
If it's a "no" so be it and honestly it'll probably be a one dance sequence. :P
If I touch and she moves my hands then I remove my hands and go on to the next dancer.
::) Wow, you sound like a real prize to dance for. I guess that 20$ means a lot to you.
xdamage
08-25-2008, 07:46 PM
...
I might just be wondering this because I'm a chick. But personally, I wouldn't want to go out and touch a stranger ... I enjoy touching people I'm dating, but it's not that pleasurable for me to run my hands up and down strangers' bodies. Maybe I'm crazy. Sorry if I'm not making myself clear..
A sampling of one person is not enough to show a pattern, but it could be there is a male vs female factor here.
I sure do read and observe information that suggests women are more likely to need/want a relationship (or potential for one) then guys. But like all statistic for large groups, you could find plenty of exceptions too, even if the general trend was true. Still, if you look at who is paying for sex with strangers, it sure seems clear the majority is by far males. And not just in this culture but in all that I know where sex can be bought.
I think it is true to say that for most guys who are touching, they might want a relationship too for various reasons, including an even better sexual experience, but touching a stranger is still very pleasurable. In fact maybe even extra HOT since there is an element of the unknown involved.
I don't know if it is explainable any more then trying to explain an orgasm to someone, but the most popular evolutionary theory is males are wired to spread our seed far and wide, while the child bearing half of the species (females) are far more inclined to take care that they mate with partners who will stick around in the event of a pregnancy.
Intellectually you can out think those instincts. And cheap, modern, safe birth control makes the waters murky, but if you believe like I do, that human nature is not just taught, but partially wired from birth, then it is to be expected that males and females will tend* to have different drives when it comes to sex and desire.
*Note, the word "tend" means a "tendency too..." It is a statistical likely hood of, not an absolute. I mention this because some readers only understand extremes, absolutes, and don't get that in large groups there are likely to be many exceptions too, but the overall pattern of behavior and statistical odds may still show a consistent common human behavior.
minnow
08-25-2008, 07:54 PM
c61- Are you a psych major?? :idea: Did it ever occur to you that males (bluesiders) find the female to be fascinating?? (Other adjectives are bandied about, but fascinating is a long time constant).
Unconvinced?? OK, why do you think that PB, PH, etal has sold millions (even billions) of magazines over the last several decades or so?? To further elaborate on this, things are more enjoyable/meaningful when the senses are maximized. Merely looking at a picture of a nude beautiful woman satisfies the visual sense. Going the next step to video/movie, involves the sound sense, in addition to expanded sight (motion vs still picture). Going to no-contact stripclub involves yet another sense (smell) in addition to a more expanded sight element(eg- dancer in movie won't jump out of screen & dance next to you). So, that leaves only touch to satisfy all of the senses.
To make an analogy- I don't know your life experiences & background, but I'm guessing that you've 1) Driven a car 2) Rode a horse 3) Probably both, but very likely at least #1. What would you most like to do ?? A) Watch a movie about horseback riding B) Take a horsecarriage ride, remaining 3' (1 meter for non USA) away from horses at all times, & under no circumstances are you to touch any of the horses. C) Actually get to ride horse, & touch said horse as much as you feel confident in doing so without being bitten or thrown off. Your answer????
So it goes with SC customers.
charlie61
08-25-2008, 07:58 PM
^^ Interesting. (to damage's argument)
Granted, I'm a non-monogamous virgin, so it's hard for me to contribute anything concrete to your POV. But still, I'm definitely a fan of evolutionary theories. So maybe that does tie into the pro-touching thing. Still, it doesn't explain much because (as someone pointed out earlier), women are just as grabby as men are (with male AND female strippers)--if not more so.
It might be a stripper vs. non-stripper thing....instead of male vs. female. I'd never been into a strip club before I started stripping (I was 18), so I don't know how I would've acted during a LD with a stripper. Would I have wanted to touch her? Hmm....
xdamage
08-25-2008, 07:59 PM
^^^ minnow's analogy of increasing levels of involvement from fantasy at a distance to actual enactment is insightful. Yep, I agree.
The only thing is I can see the other way too.. some people might enjoy movies about violence, sky diving, drama, yet want no part of it in their actual life. It ceases to be enjoyable if it is too close to real. But for many men he is right. We enjoy porn from distance, and actual physical contact (yep even with a stranger) even more.
CalifSCVisitor65
08-25-2008, 07:59 PM
::) Wow, you sound like a real prize to dance for. I guess that 20$ means a lot to you.
LOL Charlie61 asked and I answered honestly. :P
charlie61
08-25-2008, 08:04 PM
c61- Are you a psych major?? :idea: Did it ever occur to you that males (bluesiders) find the female to be fascinating?? (Other adjectives are bandied about, but fascinating is a long time constant).
Unconvinced?? OK, why do you think that PB, PH, etal has sold millions (even billions) of magazines over the last several decades or so?? To further elaborate on this, things are more enjoyable/meaningful when the senses are maximized. Merely looking at a picture of a nude beautiful woman satisfies the visual sense. Going the next step to video/movie, involves the sound sense, in addition to expanded sight (motion vs still picture). Going to no-contact stripclub involves yet another sense (smell) in addition to a more expanded sight element(eg- dancer in movie won't jump out of screen & dance next to you). So, that leaves only touch to satisfy all of the senses.
To make an analogy- I don't know your life experiences & background, but I'm guessing that you've 1) Driven a car 2) Rode a horse 3) Probably both, but very likely at least #1. What would you most like to do ?? A) Watch a movie about horseback riding B) Take a horsecarriage ride, remaining 3' (1 meter for non USA) away from horses at all times, & under no circumstances are you to touch any of the horses. C) Actually get to ride horse, & touch said horse as much as you feel confident in doing so without being bitten or thrown off. Your answer????
So it goes with SC customers.
No, no. I'm not questioning why one would rather look at a stripper than a nudie mag.
I'm wondering why patrons want to touch the strippers. What is the mental experience of one who touches someone who may or may not want to be touched?
So your answer would clearly be that these people all just want to have an objectively pleasurable experience. That's a fair perspective. It's interesting to me that the customer wouldn't care how the girl feels about being touched (in many cases). I'm not really passing judgment on it--but it's odd to me. Probably b/c I'm a stripper though.
xdamage
08-25-2008, 08:04 PM
^^ Interesting. (to damage's argument)
Granted, I'm a non-monogamous virgin, so it's hard for me to contribute anything concrete to your POV. But still, I'm definitely a fan of evolutionary theories. So maybe that does tie into the pro-touching thing. Still, it doesn't explain much because (as someone pointed out earlier), women are just as grabby as men are (with male AND female strippers)--if not more so.
It might be a stripper vs. non-stripper thing....instead of male vs. female. I'd never been into a strip club before I started stripping (I was 18), so I don't know how I would've acted during a LD with a stripper. Would I have wanted to touch her? Hmm....
Could be... although I still see far fewer females in SCs then men, but maybe those who do go are the exceptions in this way too?
Don't know. Just out of curious is it lesbian women who are grabby or straight or both? Not that you can always tell I guess. Still I'd wonder if they grab for the same reasons if they both do grab.
But I can say is that there is some truth to the old saying that "men will fuck anything" ;)
charlie61
08-25-2008, 08:05 PM
LOL Charlie61 asked and I answered honestly. :P
Seriously---thank you for the honest answer. I didn't start this thread to pass judgment on anyone.
lestat1
08-25-2008, 08:07 PM
I'm just wondering what the motivation behind (I guess) any kind of dancer touching is.
I might just be wondering this because I'm a chick. But personally, I wouldn't want to go out and touch a stranger (even in places where it's allowed) unless I knew (or was convinced) that the other person was enjoying it. So when a patron touches a dancer (illegally or legally), I'm speculating as to why this is.
I enjoy touching people I'm dating, but it's not that pleasurable for me to run my hands up and down strangers' bodies. Maybe I'm crazy. Sorry if I'm not making myself clear...
Hmm. You couldn't pay me to try cocaine, but others would steal and murder for a fix. For me, the few brief moments of physical intimacy with a female once a month in the club are all I get (this would be of the "allowed" variety). So I suspect I weigh it higher than you, even in addition to our respective gender differences.
I intended to just start a discussion about this general topic--which is why my OP wasn't in an outright Q/A form.
well, there are two very different questions...
As far as touching when it's not allowed is concerned, I guess there are some men delusional enough to think she wants to be touched. For the rest, in that moment, they know it's wrong but don't care because the benefit to them (boobs!) outweighs the cost (chance of sexual assault charge and/or heel to the groin). Probably the same type of cost/benefit analysis that runs through anyone's head when they do drugs, drink and drive, download copyrighted MP3s, speed, cheat on their partners, etc.
For touching when it's allowed, if a dancer says "you can touch XYZ but not ABC" then I'm going to be touching XYZ and not ABC. Thinking to myself: "well she said I could and it's allowed, but I don't think she really wants me to" would involve a level of sensitivity under which I believe all society would cease to function, and under which I'd slowly die.
I'd have to not eat out at a restaurant, or shop (do you really know anyone who likes working retail?), or get my car serviced, or do anything that involves a person going to work (it's called "work" for a reason). I don't think the nurses who emptied my bed pans when I was a kid in the hospital wanted to do that at all, and most likely absolutely hated it. I have to do my #1s and #2s though. Once the self-checkout registers at my grocery store stopped working, I'd starve to death.
On the other hand, if she said "you can touch," but then broke down sobbing over it when I did I couldn't possibly continue. So in my mind if she's saying it's okay and acts as if it's okay, I think to myself simply, that it's okay / tolerated.
charlie61
08-25-2008, 08:07 PM
Could be... although I still see far fewer females in SCs then men, but maybe those who do go are the exceptions in this way too?
Don't know. Just out of curious is it lesbian women who are grabby or straight or both? Not that you can always tell I guess. Still I'd wonder if they grab for the same reasons if they both do grab.
But I can say is that there is some truth to the old saying that "men will fuck anything" ;)
I've found that lesbian women (especially those who are clearly "out"--the butch girls) adhere very strictly to my club's no-contact rules. Women claiming to be straight or bisexual tend to be VERY grabby--especially if their male SO's are with them.
charlie61
08-25-2008, 08:11 PM
I'd have to not eat out at a restaurant, or shop (do you really know anyone who likes working retail?), or get my car serviced, or do anything that involves a person going to work (it's called "work" for a reason). I don't think the nurses who emptied my bed pans when I was a kid in the hospital wanted to do that at all, and most likely absolutely hated it. I have to do my #1s and #2s though. Once the self-checkout registers at my grocery store stopped working, I'd starve to death.
This is a really interesting perspective. It's hinting at the debate that concerns sex work's relationship with society. Is sex work inherently different than normal work? I would agree with you--sex work, in that it is (at its most basic level) physical labor, doesn't seem to be any different than other types of physical labor. Therefore, you could definitely make an argument that (in a contact club), you should be able to touch the girls (with no feelings of guilt) even if they don't like it.
xdamage
08-25-2008, 08:17 PM
I've found that lesbian women (especially those who are clearly "out"--the butch girls) adhere very strictly to my club's no-contact rules. Women claiming to be straight or bisexual tend to be VERY grabby--especially if their male SO's are with them.
Well then that does suggest there is something else going on. Or something else going on with women, and it just happens to look like the same thing.
See there aren't many male SCs around that I know of. I know one in Vegas, but it is women only and it draws no where near the number of patrons as the female SCs. But since I have never been in that part of the club, I have no idea how they behave. I do believe they could be grabby as hell though ;) Women are very sexual of course, and given the right context it comes out.
I don't know why a straight woman would grab a dancer's body. Maybe sexual curiosity? Or worse... Could it be they are just being douches? A kind of competitive message to their male SO, "Look, she is just a whore, I am going to treat her like a pure thing just to show how little I think of her"? That kind of sentiment? Many dancers say they hate dancing for couples because the women can be so f*ed about it. It is funny too because you can see when the female half of a couple is really hating it by the looks on her face. I often see a look that sort of says "Bitch" or worse when they look at the dancers.
bsteve
08-25-2008, 08:19 PM
I'm just wondering what the motivation behind (I guess) any kind of dancer touching is.
I might just be wondering this because I'm a chick. But personally, I wouldn't want to go out and touch a stranger (even in places where it's allowed) unless I knew (or was convinced) that the other person was enjoying it. So when a patron touches a dancer (illegally or legally), I'm speculating as to why this is.
I enjoy touching people I'm dating, but it's not that pleasurable for me to run my hands up and down strangers' bodies.
Guys like to look at naked women. They like to touch naked women. That's all there is to it.
As far as not causing pleasure for the recipient of the touch: a guy does not touch a stripper to cause a pleasure to her, but to cause a pleasure for himself. He gets a kick out of it. Yes, most guys who touch their wives/girlfriends want to cause pleasure to her, but this is not the case here. Just as watching a stripper dance, so too touching a stripper is purely for him, not for her.
lestat1
08-25-2008, 08:20 PM
This is a really interesting perspective. It's hinting at the debate that concerns sex work's relationship with society. Is sex work inherently different than normal work? I would agree with you--sex work, in that it is (at its most basic level) physical labor, doesn't seem to be any different than other types of physical labor. Therefore, you could definitely make an argument that (in a contact club), you should be able to touch the girls (with no feelings of guilt) even if they don't like it.
It seems rational in that context, and yet emotionally, I'm opposed to the notion. Like if she really, clearly, hated it, I'd feel guilty. Yet I can eat crab legs, something that people die fishing for at the highest rate of any job, without remorse, simply because "they chose to do it and they get paid well." But that rationale works for sex work too. Yet it still doesn't jive somehow.
I think it's the immediacy of the event; clearly seeing my action and the resultant pain, versus the more abstract notion of where my food comes from.
charlie61
08-25-2008, 08:22 PM
Well then that does suggest there is something else going on. Or something else going on with women, and it just happens to look like the same thing.
See there aren't many male SCs around that I know of. I know one in Vegas, but it is women only and it draws no where near the number of patrons as the female SCs. But since I have never been in that part of the club, I have no idea how they behave. I do believe they could be grabby as hell though ;) Women are very sexual of course, and given the right context it comes out.
I don't know why a straight woman would grab a dancer's body. Maybe sexual curiosity? Or worse... Could it be they are just being douches? A kind of competitive message to their male SO, "Look, she is just a whore, I am going to treat her like a pure thing just to show how little I think of her"? That kind of sentiment? Many dancers say they hate dancing for couples because the women can be so f*ed about it. It is funny too because you can see when the female half of a couple is really hating it by the looks on her face. I often see a look that sort of says "Bitch" or worse when they look at the dancers.
Yeah--that is disturbing. But it does fit in with the "ultimate objectification" theory. Oftentimes I think they're just trying to make the dance look sexy and two-sided for their SO's though. And when I think of male strippers, I'm thinking more of those involved in male shows- like the Chippendales.
charlie61
08-25-2008, 08:25 PM
It seems rational in that context, and yet emotionally, I'm opposed to the notion. Like if she really, clearly, hated it, I'd feel guilty. Yet I can eat crab legs, something that people die fishing for at the highest rate of any job, without remorse, simply because "they chose to do it and they get paid well." But that rationale works for sex work too. Yet it still doesn't jive somehow.
I think it's the immediacy of the event; clearly seeing my action and the resultant pain, versus the more abstract notion of where my food comes from.
Good call--I definitely don't enjoy my meal if my waiter looks pissed at me. And I'd probably kill myself if my nurse were scowling/crying while changing my bedpan (in reference to your previous example). Maybe sex work, stripping included, therefore belongs in the "service industry" category (no pun intended).
charlie61
08-25-2008, 08:30 PM
Part of why I started this thread is because my ex-SO commented the other day that he doesn't like touching strippers even when they encourage him to do so. He's the guy who reels backwards when strippers try to shove their boobs in his face while taking a tip onstage. (And no, he wasn't lying to me when he said this--he had no reason to lie.)
It just got me thinking. Clearly everyone has different motives and experiences in these situations.
I know that, personally, I only have customers try to touch me (I work in a no-contact club, remember) when I've done my job so well that I've made the person believe that we're having a mutual experience during a LD. Other strippers who've commented in this thread seem to have the opposite problem predominantly--they get touched when the patron is just trying to get the most bang for his buck. This mix of experiences is interesting.
xdamage
08-25-2008, 08:34 PM
Oftentimes I think they're just trying to make the dance look sexy and two-sided for their SO's though.
Yea, I know what you mean. It is pretty obvious when they are trying to play along (some seem to even really enjoy it too, and bi-sexuality is real and some people really do enjoy it), but sometimes it looks more like an act for their SOs, I agree.
And when I think of male strippers, I'm thinking more of those involved in male shows- like the Chippendales.
Yea. Just it is interesting. That show does okay I assume, but while there are dozens of SCs in the city near me, I couldn't tell you if Chippendales is a permanant thing or a show that comes to town or much else. Obviously women do go, but the market appears to be much smaller. And it is not just here. I see the same in Norway, German, Netherlands, Japan, France, a few other parts of the world I visit for business. Males are the majority buyers/spenders, by far.
There is something to that, and I sure don't think it is a conspiracy. I really think it has something to do with fundamental evolutionary differences between the sexes (statistically speaking of course, exceptions abound).
charlie61
08-25-2008, 08:42 PM
Yea, I know what you mean. It is pretty obvious when they are trying to play along (some seem to even really enjoy it too, and bi-sexuality is real and some people really do enjoy it), but sometimes it looks more like an act for their SOs, I agree.
Yea. Just it is interesting. That show does okay I assume, but while there are dozens of SCs in the city near me, I couldn't tell you if Chippendales is a permanant thing or a show that comes to town or much else. Obviously women do go, but the market appears to be much smaller. And it is not just here. I see the same in Norway, German, Netherlands, Japan, France, a few other parts of the world I visit for business. Males are the majority buyers/spenders, by far.
There is something to that, and I sure don't think it is a conspiracy. I really think it has something to do with fundamental evolutionary differences between the sexes (statistically speaking of course, exceptions abound).
Definitely wasn't knocking the bisexuals--I'm bi.
And I guess you could chalk it up to evolutionary theory. But you could also blame it on the fact that our world is male-dominated.
There's a theory that people have a problem with male homosexuality because it puts a man in the place where a woman "should" be. I think the reason that most strip clubs only feature female strippers is because the overarching patriarchy only permits it to be this way. If that makes any sense.... (God, I'm so threadjacking my own thread...) We're raised in a culture that dictates that this is how things should be--and both females and males follow this order.
Yes, most of your customers are usually not the kind of who get the attention of the hot and attractive woman at a normal bar. But I can't believe that even the most drunk and or naive, truely to think that their touching was of any pleasure to the dancer. For those who do, as for a free dance, and then it's back to reality time. At the same time, while at a full contact club, I would like to think that she wasn't totally repulsed by my physical contact. As a sort of a general rule of thumb, in a contact club for the first dance I limit hands softly to the hips and only if she is on my lap. It's always best to give the dancer control, and by the second dance she will almost always let you know how you can react with her. Back to "why" we like to touch, for some, the physical contact with someone much more desireable than themselves gives them the sense of pleasure or even power. It is much more possible to block out the fact you are paying for the contact with her, than it would ever be to think that she enjoyed it with you, and would do it for free.
charlie61
08-25-2008, 09:17 PM
Yes, most of your customers are usually not the kind of who get the attention of the hot and attractive woman at a normal bar. But I can't believe that even the most drunk and or naive, truely to think that their touching was of any pleasure to the dancer. For those who do, as for a free dance, and then it's back to reality time. At the same time, while at a full contact club, I would like to think that she wasn't totally repulsed by my physical contact. As a sort of a general rule of thumb, in a contact club for the first dance I limit hands softly to the hips and only if she is on my lap. It's always best to give the dancer control, and by the second dance she will almost always let you know how you can react with her. Back to "why" we like to touch, for some, the physical contact with someone much more desireable than themselves gives them the sense of pleasure or even power. It is much more possible to block out the fact you are paying for the contact with her, than it would ever be to think that she enjoyed it with you, and would do it for free.
Fair answer. Plus, alcohol probably makes the thought blocking even easier.
LittleMissy
08-25-2008, 09:51 PM
One of my buddies are how the OP described. He doesn't like touching strippers on the tip rail nor does he like them nochalantly coming by to peck him on the cheek. Custies vary and so do all of us.
Not to even mention that most of them are all pigs. :D
grindonme
08-25-2008, 10:19 PM
Custies vary and so do all of us.
Not to even mention that most of them are all pigs. :D
lmaooo
charlie61
08-25-2008, 10:31 PM
One of my buddies are how the OP described. He doesn't like touching strippers on the tip rail nor does he like them nochalantly coming by to peck him on the cheek. Custies vary and so do all of us.
Not to even mention that most of them are all pigs. :D
:bomb: Again, with the judgment...
(PLEASE tell me that comment is facetious...)
UtahMike
08-25-2008, 11:26 PM
Well, first let me say that I do enjoy touching dancers on parts of their bodies that they say may be touched. Why? Because it is pleasurable.
I do not delude myself that they do this for their pleasure any more than I delude myself that they are eager to strip off their clothing and dance sensuously for me. They do it because I pay them to do so, and I expect to pay more if I am allowed to touch.
I have never touched anyone who did not permit it. (Well, there was that one time that the dancer was on my lap, leaned WAY back to the left, and a knuckle on my left hand touched the middle of her back. And man, did SHE get pissed, like I did it on purpose. I guess she thought I really did, but if I were going to touch someone, I would not use my knuckle and it would not be her back that I touched. I apologized and said it was an accident, but she was still pissed and said I was old enough to know better.) I always ask what the rules are and I follow them. And I tip extra afterwards.
One dancer told me she would rather dance for a dirty old man like me than for a college frat boy, because we dirty old men were not going to try to grope her crotch and were not going to try to get her to have sex OTC.
One dancer did tell me that she enjoyed very much being touched in the VIP, and that she went home all turned on because of it. But she had been dancing for only two weeks and was rejoicing in being released from a very repressive upbringing. Either that or she was a very good actress.
I also passed up a chance once to finger a vagina. "You can touch anything you want in the shower room. ANYthing. There's no cameras in there. You can do anything you want." Wink, wink. Can you get gonorrhea of the cuticle? Who else had their finger in there tonight? I passed, claiming I couldn't afford the $100 fee.
OK, that's my :twocents:
UtahMike
08-25-2008, 11:38 PM
Unless, of course, you are also an AKFB. In which case you get an honorary va-jay-jay and a voice. :D
For the first time, Google has failed me on an acronym. What is an AKFB? :blush:
charlie61
08-25-2008, 11:47 PM
Always use urbandictionary.com!!
...but even it doesn't have this one. /:O
Pretty_Penny
08-25-2008, 11:50 PM
ass kissing fluffer boy...
Bob_Loblaw
08-26-2008, 12:18 AM
i suggest posting it on the blue side with an anonymous poll. that way they can answer the "i don't care" type of answers without "fear" of being directly yelled at.
Directly yelled at by whom? Other blues? Or pinks?
Yeah...I'm blue-side retarded.
If you want blue-side answers, you're better off posting in blue than cc. As the forum description suggests, "Customers ask dancers questions here," it is a section I usually pay little attention to.
There is no cookie cutter answer that would apply to all men.
Explaining the desire is simple. Sex is considered by many to be one of the primary motives in addition to hunger, thirst, and avoidance of pain. The best analogy I can think of at the moment is going to a restaurant that only sells the smell of food. It's only natural to want to eat it but whether a person chooses to control his urge is another issue altogether.
Guys who touch do so because it satisfies their urge to touch. It's a positive experience for them. IMO, guys who claim to initiate contact for the purpose of 'turning on' a dancer are really only concerned about their own needs (i.e., if the dancer is turned on, I'll get turned on more and I'll enjoy it more). No regard is paid to the desire of the dancer who is completely objectified.
"Don't push the big, red button." Tell someone they can't do something and they're going to want to do it (especially when there's no accountability for their actions). Many guys constantly seek to push the boundaries. A guy touches a girl. She tells him no and keeps dancing. He touches again, she tells him no and keeps dancing. Even if she stops the dance, at the end of the day you can't un-touch what you've already touched. He already got what he wanted.
xdamage
08-26-2008, 04:59 AM
And I guess you could chalk it up to evolutionary theory. But you could also blame it on the fact that our world is male-dominated.
True, but that could just be six of one, half a dozen of the other (i.e., same thing).
It's just us people here, so if societies repetitively evolve with certain patterns (e.g., male dominance) then either you have to chalk it up to a planned outcome (a theory which ultimately requires believing in a conspiracy), or consider that it just be it reflects something about our human nature, required no planning, just a lot of cumulative individual human choices resulting in the society we have.
One way to separate the wheat from the chaff is to look at animals. For those that are social, have alpha males/females, have territory, etc., look at their behaviors to see who is most likely to gather-hunt resources, who is more likely to stay with offspring, who is more likely to establish sexual dominance over multiple partners, who is more likely to commit acts of violence against neighboring animals, etc. See if any evolved patterns like our human societies.
Humans are also complicated by the fact that it takes our children so long to mature. Both physically and mentally. An advantage and disadvantage of having the brains we have. We just had this discussion in another thread. The majority doesn't think people finish maturing until well after puberty finishes. That is a around 15+ years then of investment needed to raise a child. If you found out in animals that females are more likely to stay home and raise off spring (and let males do the hunting and gathering), then imagine if they had to spend such a huge chunk of their life raising children (while the men are out "gathering resources", defending the lands, etc.)
Plus there is a theory that suggests our world is male dominant in large part because females selected it. They do it by tending to select to breed with males who are more likely to be aggressive (aka, alpha males). Of course they hope aggression does not turn towards them (same reason people hope aggressive animals don't bite the hand that feeds them), but aggressive enough to be protectors for them and their children, aggressive enough to even take from others since the female benefits from increased resources too, or even just because they want the alpha males genes for their own children (alphas tend to succeed!).
In that theory then, no conspiracy was needed. Just a lot of individual choices. Females choosing to stay with their young and raise them, females tending to choose jobs that leave them with more free time to be with their children, men choosing to stray and impregnate more females, men choosing jobs that tend to keep them away from home and available to mate with more females, females choosing who to mate with preferring alpha males, males acting in alpha ways to win more females, and so on, resulting in... the societies we have now. There are of course plenty of exceptions, but if that theory is correct, our society evolved in the way it has because it reflects our underlying human nature.
AtomicPunk
08-26-2008, 06:02 AM
I think there's 3 reasons
1 - the only way they can touch a good looking chick is to pay her to let him and pay her to pretend she likes it.
2 - they think it's part of the job
3 - was covered by the OP they don't care if the dancer wants to be touched or not.
For many reasons I fall into the I could never touch a dancer category.
Everyman
08-26-2008, 07:17 AM
Therefore, you could definitely make an argument that (in a contact club), you should be able to touch look at the girls (with no feelings of guilt) even if they don't like it.
Not just "make the argument"...in a contact club, I fail to see any guilt difference in looking and touching, since all parties consent that both are part of the deal.
Because touching is allowed in my state.
Everyman
08-26-2008, 07:53 AM
The more I think about it, the more I realize this is not a stripper/customer question. The proper question is, "why do men want to touch women?"
Pretty much every groper in the world, from concerts to subways to strip clubs, is guy on girl...
Pretty much every event of someone taking it "too far" in a personal setting, like on college campuses across the nation, is guy on girl....
Pretty much every event of someone regretting it (whether immediately or the next morning) is the girl, not the guy....
Most "sex for sale" (whether looking, touching, sucking or fucking) is woman selling to man.....
This isn't a stripper/customer issue. Generally, once the "sex" part of the brain is turned on, men will take what they can get. And when a naked girl is fake seducing you right in front of you....what you can get seems like an awful lot!
But most DO take no for an answer when told what they can't get....in or out of a club.
LittleMissy
08-26-2008, 09:44 AM
:bomb: Again, with the judgment...
(PLEASE tell me that comment is facetious...)
About the all men being pigs part? /:O hahah of course!
BUTtttt... theres a little truth to every joke. }:D Sometimes when I go clubbing and I see a hot guy I'll walk by and grab his ass. haha I don't know what kind of satisfaction it brings me, but it does. I like molesting guys too. It's only fair.
Pretty_Penny
08-26-2008, 10:10 AM
I think there's 3 reasons
1 - the only way they can touch a good looking chick is to pay her to let him and pay her to pretend she likes it.
2 - they think it's part of the job
3 - was covered by the OP they don't care if the dancer wants to be touched or not.
i pretty much agree with this. i don't think it's so much about men "naturally wanting to touch women" as it a combination of them thinking they're entitled to it for paying as well as them not caring what we think about it because "we're strippers".
i've had many-a-customer completely grope for something i told him he couldn't touch. when i told him to stop or finally got really combative about it, he said something alone the lines of "well then why do you do this?".
then of course there was the guy who grabbed my tits after i said no and then told me "you like it or you wouldn't be here".
........
charlie61
08-26-2008, 11:55 AM
In that theory then, no conspiracy was needed. Just a lot of individual choices. Females choosing to stay with their young and raise them, females tending to choose jobs that leave them with more free time to be with their children, men choosing to stray and impregnate more females, men choosing jobs that tend to keep them away from home and available to mate with more females, females choosing who to mate with preferring alpha males, males acting in alpha ways to win more females, and so on, resulting in... the societies we have now. There are of course plenty of exceptions, but if that theory is correct, our society evolved in the way it has because it reflects our underlying human nature.
I agree--I didn't mean to make it sound like I was putting male-dominance on a moral continuum. My point was merely that, because we live in a male-dominated society, it makes sense that there would be more strip clubs that cater to men.
charlie61
08-26-2008, 11:57 AM
Not just "make the argument"...in a contact club, I fail to see any guilt difference in looking and touching, since all parties consent that both are part of the deal.
Yes--I agree with you. But, as someone pointed out earlier, in service industries, it often takes the fun out of it when the person who is servicing you (no pun intended) isn't pleased about it.
Would you still touch (in a contact club) even if the dancer were clearly unhappy with it? Despite how much sense it makes on paper that one would be entitled to this right, many people wouldn't take advantage of said right if this were the case...
charlie61
08-26-2008, 12:04 PM
There is no cookie cutter answer that would apply to all men.
Explaining the desire is simple. Sex is considered by many to be one of the primary motives in addition to hunger, thirst, and avoidance of pain. The best analogy I can think of at the moment is going to a restaurant that only sells the smell of food. It's only natural to want to eat it but whether a person chooses to control his urge is another issue altogether.
Guys who touch do so because it satisfies their urge to touch. It's a positive experience for them. IMO, guys who claim to initiate contact for the purpose of 'turning on' a dancer are really only concerned about their own needs (i.e., if the dancer is turned on, I'll get turned on more and I'll enjoy it more). No regard is paid to the desire of the dancer who is completely objectified.
"Don't push the big, red button." Tell someone they can't do something and they're going to want to do it (especially when there's no accountability for their actions). Many guys constantly seek to push the boundaries. A guy touches a girl. She tells him no and keeps dancing. He touches again, she tells him no and keeps dancing. Even if she stops the dance, at the end of the day you can't un-touch what you've already touched. He already got what he wanted.
Yeah--I know there isn't a cookie-cutter answer for all men. That's why I posted it as an open-ended question.
And I'd have to agree with you about the "I'd enjoy it more if she were enjoying it, but I still want to touch" theory. That makes sense for a number of cases, I think.
But I'm not sure that this situation is analogous to smelling/eating food. I mean...most people realize that in a strip club, the "food" is a sentient being. Which is why it'd be hard for me to walk into a SC and touch a bunch of strangers (with or without their consent). So is it possible that just by being strippers, we sign some kind of agreement in many customers' minds that touching is "part of the job"? I'm picturing the average guy walking into a SC (someone who wouldn't grab a 20 year-old's ass on the street), and suddenly becoming someone who WOULD grab a stripper's ass... Which makes me think again that it isn't about being male vs. female, and that it IS about being stripper vs. nonstripper.
Everyman
08-26-2008, 03:53 PM
Yes--I agree with you. But, as someone pointed out earlier, in service industries, it often takes the fun out of it when the person who is servicing you (no pun intended) isn't pleased about it.
Would you still touch (in a contact club) even if the dancer were clearly unhappy with it? Despite how much sense it makes on paper that one would be entitled to this right, many people wouldn't take advantage of said right if this were the case...
Well, yeah...but again, it has nothing to do with touch. What if the same girl was freaked out by me looking at her? Either way, (1) she shouldn't be working there; and (2) yeah, it would weird me out somewhat.
Whether it's look, or touch.
xdamage
08-26-2008, 05:42 PM
I agree--I didn't mean to make it sound like I was putting male-dominance on a moral continuum. My point was merely that, because we live in a male-dominated society, it makes sense that there would be more strip clubs that cater to men.
Ah okay, gotcha. Just often times human behavior is blaimed on "society" which can end up being the devil's catch all for any behaviors we don't like in others. Society is of course created by us people, and it is often not clear what is learned and what we are born with.
But to the topic at hand... yes, it does make sense.
I suppose it also doesn't help any that male customers are often physically larger then female dancers. I wonder the how many just do it because they feel little or no likely hood of physical retaliation? Aka, a bully's mentality. He who is bigger can just take what he wants without asking. Ugly, but a possible factor.
Bob_Loblaw
08-26-2008, 06:45 PM
So is it possible that just by being strippers, we sign some kind of agreement in many customers' minds that touching is "part of the job"? I'm picturing the average guy walking into a SC (someone who wouldn't grab a 20 year-old's ass on the street), and suddenly becoming someone who WOULD grab a stripper's ass... Which makes me think again that it isn't about being male vs. female, and that it IS about being stripper vs. nonstripper.
I go back to the lack of accountability as the explanation for that. A lot of guys make the assumption that it's permitted because there's no authoritative force telling them they can't and there are no consequences for doing so. Because club management is not consistent in its enforcement, this mindset persists and even grows.