View Full Version : Why do patrons want to touch the dancers?
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satoo
08-26-2008, 08:16 PM
It's just objectification. Isn't that the whole concept behind strip clubs?
If I thought the girl truly hated it though and was near crying or something, I would not enjoy touching her or getting a dance, and would just find another dancer. I would rather the girl is simply indifferent, tells me what's ok to touch upfront and the price, and that's it.
grindonme
08-26-2008, 10:07 PM
Yeah--I know there isn't a cookie-cutter answer for all men. That's why I posted it as an open-ended question.
And I'd have to agree with you about the "I'd enjoy it more if she were enjoying it, but I still want to touch" theory. That makes sense for a number of cases, I think.
But I'm not sure that this situation is analogous to smelling/eating food. I mean...most people realize that in a strip club, the "food" is a sentient being. Which is why it'd be hard for me to walk into a SC and touch a bunch of strangers (with or without their consent). So is it possible that just by being strippers, we sign some kind of agreement in many customers' minds that touching is "part of the job"? I'm picturing the average guy walking into a SC (someone who wouldn't grab a 20 year-old's ass on the street), and suddenly becoming someone who WOULD grab a stripper's ass... Which makes me think again that it isn't about being male vs. female, and that it IS about being stripper vs. nonstripper.
As a female you'll never be able to understand/comprehend why a man would want to touch a stripper. All the correct answers in this thread are under 5 lines of text, all the other long responses are just a bunch of words that in the end mean they don't care about what the stripper is feeling.
Pretty_Penny
08-26-2008, 10:24 PM
As a female you'll never be able to understand/comprehend why a man would want to touch a stripper.
oh my fucking god.
wow.
i seriously dropped jaw just now.
grindonme
08-26-2008, 10:40 PM
oh my fucking god.
wow.
i seriously dropped jaw just now.
It's the truth, she's trying understand why males want to touch but keeps trying to understand it through her female mind and it's just not gonna happen
Pretty_Penny
08-26-2008, 11:36 PM
i don't even know what to say to that. congrats. you've flabbergasted me.
xdamage
08-27-2008, 12:44 AM
I'm reasonably sure normal people are capable of understanding other's points of view. We are all human, and even though there are differences (including differences between the sexes), we are more alike then dislike. Of course we have to want to do it too. Open our minds to it.
Hey, if you see a lot of people doing something, and you really don't understand it, it is probably not because they are abnormal. It probably does make good sense to them. If many customers are doing something they obviously have reasons, motivations, feelings behind it.
The best thing to do then is put oneself in another's shoes, and imagine what if, I was them?
charlie61
08-27-2008, 01:46 AM
i don't even know what to say to that. congrats. you've flabbergasted me.
Yeah, I second that.
I actually found this thread really helpful in my understanding of why it is that guys enjoy touching strippers. So despite your (odd, random, totally off-base) theory that I can't understand why it is...uh...yeah. Thank you to everyone who answered the OP thoughtfully.
Anyways, I'm bi. So what are you saying--that I'd have to have a dick to understand you? Plus, female custies are often just as grabby as the male ones, so I don't think this has anything to do with gender.
charlie61
08-27-2008, 01:48 AM
Hey, if you see a lot of people doing something, and you really don't understand it, it is probably not because they are abnormal. It probably does make good sense to them. If many customers are doing something they obviously have reasons, motivations, feelings behind it.
The best thing to do then is put oneself in another's shoes, and imagine what if, I was them?
Exactly! Thank you.
(Hence my (IMO, fairly non-judgmental) thread.)
xdamage
08-27-2008, 05:23 AM
...So is it possible that just by being strippers, we sign some kind of agreement in many customers' minds that touching is "part of the job"? I'm picturing the average guy walking into a SC (someone who wouldn't grab a 20 year-old's ass on the street), and suddenly becoming someone who WOULD grab a stripper's ass... Which makes me think again that it isn't about being male vs. female, and that it IS about being stripper vs. nonstripper.
Well, we can play a what-if game.
In the same way it is abnormal to walk around grab a 20 year-old's ass in the street, it is abnormal for people to act like strippers on the streets.
In general women don't dress like strippers in public, they don't approach and touch strangers and act sexually interested, they don't engage in almost-sex (lots of physical contact) with strangers they meet at random on the streets.
So if you could take the money out of it (so we are no longer talking about stripper behavior, but instead human behavior), and 20 year olds were to act like that with strangers on the streets, how would some (the majority?) of humans respond?
Depending on how they respond, we might no longer say it is a stripper thing, but again, it is a human thing.
If I had to guess...
I think we would all be surprised if all men did not touch back; in fact we probably think many men would respond by touching back. Their reasoning - probably sexual instinct.
Maybe the same is true of lesbian women? They would touch back? Again, sexual instinct?
But straight women being approached in this way by other women? Hmm... When it comes to straight men if we are sexually approached by gay men our tendency is to say "no". I guess I would have guessed generally they would not try to touch back. If they do touch then, I would think their reasons are different then the others. For example, maybe they would do it for an SO but get little excitement out of it personally.
grindonme
08-27-2008, 08:16 AM
Well, we can play a what-if game.
In the same way it is abnormal to walk around grab a 20 year-old's ass in the street, it is abnormal for people to act like strippers on the streets.
In general women don't dress like strippers in public, they don't approach and touch strangers and act sexually interested, they don't engage in almost-sex (lots of physical contact) with strangers they meet at random on the streets.
So if you could take the money out of it (so we are no longer talking about stripper behavior, but instead human behavior), and 20 year olds were to act like that with strangers on the streets, how would some (the majority?) of humans respond?
Depending on how they respond, we might no longer say it is a stripper thing, but again, it is a human thing.
If I had to guess...
I think we would all be surprised if all men did not touch back; in fact we probably think many men would respond by touching back. Their reasoning - probably sexual instinct.
Maybe the same is true of lesbian women? They would touch back? Again, sexual instinct?
But straight women being approached in this way by other women? Hmm... When it comes to straight men if we are sexually approached by gay men our tendency is to say "no". I guess I would have guessed generally they would not try to touch back. If they do touch then, I would think their reasons are different then the others. For example, maybe they would do it for an SO but get little excitement out of it personally.
Hmmmmm very good points
charlie61
08-27-2008, 12:24 PM
Well, we can play a what-if game.
In the same way it is abnormal to walk around grab a 20 year-old's ass in the street, it is abnormal for people to act like strippers on the streets.
In general women don't dress like strippers in public, they don't approach and touch strangers and act sexually interested, they don't engage in almost-sex (lots of physical contact) with strangers they meet at random on the streets.
So if you could take the money out of it (so we are no longer talking about stripper behavior, but instead human behavior), and 20 year olds were to act like that with strangers on the streets, how would some (the majority?) of humans respond?
Depending on how they respond, we might no longer say it is a stripper thing, but again, it is a human thing.
If I had to guess...
I think we would all be surprised if all men did not touch back; in fact we probably think many men would respond by touching back. Their reasoning - probably sexual instinct.
Maybe the same is true of lesbian women? They would touch back? Again, sexual instinct?
But straight women being approached in this way by other women? Hmm... When it comes to straight men if we are sexually approached by gay men our tendency is to say "no". I guess I would have guessed generally they would not try to touch back. If they do touch then, I would think their reasons are different then the others. For example, maybe they would do it for an SO but get little excitement out of it personally.
That does make the evolutionary theory clearer. Very nice! I like.
xdamage
08-27-2008, 06:59 PM
charlie61 - Bonus points for you for trying to keep your thread civil and open minded. This is a topic that could have easily spiraled down and out of control.
charlie61
08-27-2008, 07:01 PM
charlie61 - Bonus points for you for trying to keep your thread civil and open minded. This is a topic that could have easily spiraled down and out of control.
Haha no shit! I was afraid after the first page that it was going to crash and burn. Even GoldenRule was basically like "Great, another custie hating thread..."
Thanks for your input!
::thread dies::
:)
Golden_Rule
08-28-2008, 07:48 AM
On the contrary---I started this thread for the sole purpose of hearing from the blues... (not that I mind hearing from the pinks)
I know YOU did Charlie.
And what caught my attention was the amount of Pinks who jumped in either to call your question dumb [which I didn't believe it to be] or to totally disregard any of the attempts at genuine contributions made by the people whose opinions you asked for in the first place, the gents.
As one who in constantly transfixed by the range of expression, or the lack thereof, in the human dynamic I just found it educational, as well as entertaining. :)
Thank you for actually wondering what is on our minds. We do have them. :)
Golden_Rule
08-28-2008, 08:01 AM
I'm just wondering what the motivation behind (I guess) any kind of dancer touching is.
And that was precisely where you, as the initiating poster, of this thread was taking this. A discussion of ALL the types of touching.
I just found it very telling that a group of dancers jumped in and immediately took it down the singular path of NEGATIVE touching.
Denotes an issue in my book, but that's just my way of looking at it.
Understand, I have worked with dancers on and off for years and been privy to their discussions out of ear drop from the guys paying them for various services. I am quite well aware that there are a goodly number of them who fervently dislike, some actually loath, their customers.
It isn't that I blame them. There are enough guys doing some pretty stupid crap out there to cause the negativity it engenders in women working within the various sex industries. It's just that I find it fascinating that it doesn't occur to the women themselves, as smart as some of them are, that these negative emotional reactions to what the men are doing doesn't do them, the women, any good.
It is just the source for ulcers and other things that negatively impact on the workplace and make it more difficult for them to make money in this business. One more hill they have to climb, so to speak, before they can bank.
That is pretty much true of negative energy in all things, not just stripping.
Anyway, the point is there is ALL manner of touching and not ALL of it is negative.
Golden_Rule
08-28-2008, 08:05 AM
::) Wow, you sound like a real prize to dance for. I guess that 20$ means a lot to you.
Sveta, it's his $20. He has a right to determine what it means to him just as you have a right to determine what it means to you.
If two people acknowledge each others rights in that regard they can work within the same enviorment to find to each that which is suitable for themselves.
That would be the dancer comfortable with him as a customer for the gent and the customer you more than comfortable with your limits for you.
There are enough customers and dancers to go around, and each with different wants and limits enough for each to find their match without firing spitballs at each other in the process.
Jenny
08-28-2008, 08:10 AM
And what caught my attention was the amount of Pinks who jumped in either to call your question dumb [which I didn't believe it to be] or to totally disregard any of the attempts at genuine contributions made by the people whose opinions you asked for in the first place, the gents.
I just found it very telling that a group of dancers jumped in and immediately took it down the singular path of NEGATIVE touching.
Denotes an issue in my book, but that's just my way of looking at it.
GR - I think I already said that this is not a thread which is intended to discuss what customers think is wrong with stripperweb dancers. Please do not start such a thread - it is not appropriate or welcome. Please consider this your second warning.
Golden_Rule
08-28-2008, 08:11 AM
Guys like to look at naked women. They like to touch naked women. That's all there is to it.
That is part of it, but not the be all and end all you suggest.
As far as not causing pleasure for the recipient of the touch: a guy does not touch a stripper to cause a pleasure to her, but to cause a pleasure for himself. He gets a kick out of it. Yes, most guys who touch their wives/girlfriends want to cause pleasure to her, but this is not the case here. Just as watching a stripper dance, so too touching a stripper is purely for him, not for her.
Not true either.
There may not be physical/sexual pleasure, but there has to be some give and take or why would the dancer want to do it.
I reference only touching with mutual consent here. Surely she is receiving something out of it that makes it worthwhile for her to allow it. So even if the pleasure is derived solely in monetary compensation, there is mutuality involved even if the pleasure is only the thought of what she is going to be able to do with the money.
Golden_Rule
08-28-2008, 08:15 AM
GR - I think I already said that this is not a thread which is intended to discuss what customers think is wrong with stripperweb dancers. Please do not start such a thread - it is not appropriate or welcome. Please consider this your second warning.
I call foul! You are blocking an honest attempt at intellectual exchange.
I was NOT speaking to issues involving stripper web dancers, but discussing the very topic we were talking about involving dancers and customers in general.
I'm sorry but I suggest a bias because my response caused you to feel your authority was being questioned... which BTW, it wasn't.
Jenny
08-28-2008, 08:18 AM
I call foul! You are blocking an honest attempt at intellectual exchange.
I was NOT speaking to issues involving stripper web dancers, but discussing the very topic we were talking about involving dancers and customers in general.
I'm sorry but I suggest a bias because my response caused you to feel your authority was being questioned... which BTW, it wasn't.
Not debating the issue here. You may make a complaint the same way every other member has to - through PM to me, to another mod, and then to Pryce or Tashia. Please consider this a warning for mishandling a mod issue. This topic is now closed for public consumption.
Thank you
Jenny
Jenny
08-28-2008, 08:25 AM
BTW - I meant the mod issue and the discussion of stripperweb dancers. The OP's topic is still on.
charlie61
08-28-2008, 02:37 PM
I know YOU did Charlie.
And what caught my attention was the amount of Pinks who jumped in either to call your question dumb [which I didn't believe it to be] or to totally disregard any of the attempts at genuine contributions made by the people whose opinions you asked for in the first place, the gents.
As one who in constantly transfixed by the range of expression, or the lack thereof, in the human dynamic I just found it educational, as well as entertaining. :)
Thank you for actually wondering what is on our minds. We do have them. :)
Ah, I gotcha. Thank you, too, then, for being part of our li'l discussion. :)
threlayer
09-03-2008, 09:21 AM
I wish this question was more CLEAR. touch where of concern? Knee, shoulder, face, back, or (ulp) the kitty?
I like interaction and am always respectful. I would never attempt to touch the forbidden zones if I were not asked to (rarely). But I think not touching her anywhere is mutual objectification -- like being serviced. And I do not like that. Bet you've never heard that one before.
Jenny
09-03-2008, 09:28 AM
^^^
I thought what she was asking is why guys enjoy touching women who don't get off on it? Like for me (and I daresay to most women) sex is not usually just being services until spasm occurs - being attractive and desired and wanted is a big part of the point - I don't mean like romance, but you know. Sex is a shared experience and my partner wanting me is a pretty integral part of that experience. I thought the question was why so many guys are so sexually fueled by mere compliance.
charlie61
09-03-2008, 11:23 AM
^^^
I thought what she was asking is why guys enjoy touching women who don't get off on it? Like for me (and I daresay to most women) sex is not usually just being services until spasm occurs - being attractive and desired and wanted is a big part of the point - I don't mean like romance, but you know. Sex is a shared experience and my partner wanting me is a pretty integral part of that experience. I thought the question was why so many guys are so sexually fueled by mere compliance.
Yes. This is more what I was getting at.
charlie61
09-03-2008, 11:24 AM
I wish this question was more CLEAR. touch where of concern? Knee, shoulder, face, back, or (ulp) the kitty?
I like interaction and am always respectful. I would never attempt to touch the forbidden zones if I were not asked to (rarely). But I think not touching her anywhere is mutual objectification -- like being serviced. And I do not like that. Bet you've never heard that one before.
Haha...I HAVE heard of that one before. It's not that uncommon. Hence the thread discussion. :)
Golden_Rule
09-03-2008, 12:51 PM
^^^
I thought what she was asking is why guys enjoy touching women who don't get off on it? [deleted] I thought the question was why so many guys are so sexually fueled by mere compliance.
Okay. I swear I'm not dense. But I was wondering the other day why it is that customers (most of them) want to touch the dancers.
The question was precisely this. She added a couple of what she thought might be possibilities but it didn't change the essence of the question.
I keep suggesting that people around here read through filters of bias and get the result at the other end. This is a perfect example of it.
I am aware people carry such filters around with them, that I have them myself [all normal people do], so I make a deliberate effort to place mine aside and only hear precisely what the person is trying to say.
Which is why I understood the true nature of Charlie's question and you missed it.
The trick isn't being without bias. We all have them. The trick is to realize that and make an effort to see not through them, but past them.
wishing well...
brazenpeach
09-03-2008, 01:40 PM
I don't think they're thinking about us, or even about what they're doing. It's a very basic instinct - soft pretty girl, want touch, *grab*. I don't think there's anything more to it; they're just acting on their impulses without thinking of the consequences to us or themselves.
I was at a club checking out the nature of the job, and for the dances I bought, I sat there minding my manners, also keeping in mind to be respectful of the ladies working...and the girls who danced for me each took my hands and put them all over their bodies...everywhere. I didn't pull my hands away, I was ok with it, but I was just concerned with treating them respectfully. Might they have done this because I was a woman and maybe less of a threat? I let them know that I was there because I wanted to start stripping soon. Maybe they were just comfortable with placing my hands on them because I wasn't a leechy man? because I surely knew it was not ok to touch them, and I was happy to heed the rules. any thoughts or feedback as to why a dancer would want a woman to touch her? I'm not complaining...these were some of the most stunning women I've ever seen! I can clearly see how and why men are totally under their spell!
brazenpeach
09-03-2008, 01:44 PM
oh my fucking god.
wow.
i seriously dropped jaw just now.
No Shit! Women will never understand? Wow. A man's desire for a woman is like the most basic thing in the world.
charlie61
09-03-2008, 03:20 PM
I was at a club checking out the nature of the job, and for the dances I bought, I sat there minding my manners, also keeping in mind to be respectful of the ladies working...and the girls who danced for me each took my hands and put them all over their bodies...everywhere. I didn't pull my hands away, I was ok with it, but I was just concerned with treating them respectfully. Might they have done this because I was a woman and maybe less of a threat? I let them know that I was there because I wanted to start stripping soon. Maybe they were just comfortable with placing my hands on them because I wasn't a leechy man? because I surely knew it was not ok to touch them, and I was happy to heed the rules. any thoughts or feedback as to why a dancer would want a woman to touch her? I'm not complaining...these were some of the most stunning women I've ever seen! I can clearly see how and why men are totally under their spell!
If I ever want a woman to touch me while I'm working, it's usually for one of a few reasons...
1) Their boyfriend is watching, and he'll buy more dances for his girlfriend if he sees us clearly enjoying ourselves: watching a no-contact dance happen to your girlfriend isn't that exciting.
2) I perceive the woman as non-threatening, so as long as she doesn't go too far, I don't mind some curious touching (my club is no-contact, but neither management nor the bouncers give a shit if there is female-to-female contact...despite the questionable logic behind that)
3) I know that dances are often less exciting for women (because they usually don't want to see porno shots of our pussies, asses, etc), so I'll try to encourage her interest through light touches.
Now, when I touch a woman, that's totally different. But you were asking specifically the motives behind the strippers basically forcing you to engage in their dance. It's a money-making thing.
I absolutely abhor giving dances to women when they clearly DON'T want me to touch them, and have absolutely no interest in touching me (and I mean in any way--not just sexual, but even straddling their legs with no contact). This goes back to my thread's question (further clarified by Jenny)--of why customers want to touch the strippers when they (usually) know that the strippers don't want to be touched.
bsteve
09-03-2008, 06:06 PM
Well, I would have thought that this thread would have died after about half a dozen posts. But to aswer the original question why custies would like to touch dancer?, the answer is self-evident: guys like to touch naked or semi-naked women. It gives guys pleasure. Just like some guys like to sail, or drive fast cars, or some women like to go antiquing or shopping for shoes, guys are just drawn to naked or seminaked women. There really is nothing more to it.
Oh, just because a guy does not orgasm nor have sex with a naked or seminaked woman, does not mean that only touching a dancer is unsatisfactory. Touching a dancer is enjoyable in itself.
And, for the record, no, I do not touch dancers, although I really, really want to.
xdamage
09-03-2008, 06:20 PM
This goes back to my thread's question (further clarified by Jenny)--of why customers want to touch the strippers when they (usually) know that the strippers don't want to be touched.
Well...
Chicken grilled slow is delicious. The chickens don't want to be eaten.
If what you want is a deep emotional relationship with a chicken, then yes it matters that they are responding too.
If what you want is to enjoy how they taste cooked slow and seasoned, it is irrelevant if the chicken is into it.
Most guys aren't going to have a deep emotional relationship with strippers. In fact that is the very opposite of what strippers say they want. To some degree there is some cake eating and having it too going on.
On the one hand, objectify me ... it is not real, I don't like you, face the facts, it is just a fantasy, I just want your money for this, that is all!
On the other hand, how can you enjoy this when you know as a human I don't feel reciprocal feelings?
But that is us humans. We do this without thinking. Shift POV as it suits us, not because it is logically consistent from a neutral objective POV, but because it is in our own best interest in the moment.
Again, if many customers (or people in general) are doing something, it really does make sense. If someone can't see why, it is not because everyone else is illogical. It is probably because it would not be complimentary to the POV they want to see the situation from.
charlie61
09-03-2008, 06:30 PM
Well, I would have thought that this thread would have died after about half a dozen posts. But to aswer the original question why custies would like to touch dancer?, the answer is self-evident: guys like to touch naked or semi-naked women. It gives guys pleasure. Just like some guys like to sail, or drive fast cars, or some women like to go antiquing or shopping for shoes, guys are just drawn to naked or seminaked women. There really is nothing more to it.
Thank you for yet another, oh-so-helpful, "this is a dumb question" response. I think the breadth of this thread clearly proves that the issue is (usually) a little more complicated than you're making it out to be.
charlie61
09-03-2008, 06:34 PM
Thank you, xdamage. :) I'm not still confused though. I tried to kill this thread (b/c I felt like the issue had been explored pretty damn thoroughly) a couple o' pages ago. I feel much more enlightened thanks to everyones' input...yours included.
I am no longer totally in the dark. And, in case people have just started reading the OP and then the very end of this thread, it IS more complicated than "because men like pussy" in many cases...so feel free to stop leaving "because men like pussy...duh!" comments. :bored:
xdamage
09-03-2008, 06:38 PM
Thank you, xdamage. :) I'm not still confused though. I tried to kill this thread (b/c I felt like the issue had been explored pretty damn thoroughly) a couple o' pages ago. I feel much more enlightened thanks to everyones' input...yours included.
I am no longer totally in the dark. And, in case people have just started reading the OP and then the very end of this thread, it IS more complicated than "because men like pussy" in many cases...so feel free to stop leaving "because men like pussy...duh!" comments. :bored:
Got ya... yea your question was more complicated then that. You clearly understood men are drawn to women, but I guess the original post (OP) didn't make that clear? As you added to this thread it became clearer where you were going with this and why there are some subtleties at play.
charlie61
09-03-2008, 06:41 PM
Yeah...I was definitely having problems getting my idea across. Could've cleared it up in 20 seconds in person, but the internet seems to garble and slow down such processes...:)
xdamage
09-03-2008, 06:43 PM
^^^ yep, it happens ... without facial expressions, body language and the other subtle queues, subtleties are lost over the internet. Like I said, you did a great job taking what could have exploded into another flame fest and managing this thread. Would be nice if they all could be so exploratory and stay so calm.
charlie61
09-03-2008, 06:47 PM
::bows:: The thread wouldn't have gone far if people hadn't started contributing intelligently, so give yo'self a pat on the back too. :)
It would've just been like
Me: BLAH BLAH BLAH?
SWer: men suck
Me: BLAH BLAH!!
SCJ: this is a stupid question
Me: BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH?
SWer: i hate custies
xdamage
09-03-2008, 06:48 PM
Indeed, we have seen that thread thousands of times ;)
charlie61
09-03-2008, 06:57 PM
Lol...this is true.
bsteve
09-03-2008, 09:40 PM
Thank you for yet another, oh-so-helpful, "this is a dumb question" response. I think the breadth of this thread clearly proves that the issue is (usually) a little more complicated than you're making it out to be.
Uh, sorry Charlie, but I read the entire thread and I still do not understand what it is that is so perplexing. A lot of people said a lot of things. What else need to be said?
But let me go to your orginal post, and see if I can redeem myself
Charlie61>If you have desired to (or have acted upon the desire to) touch a stripper, then why is this?
Yes, I have a desire to touch a stripper. Why? Because I enjoy touching seminaked woman's body.
Charlie61> Is it purely for your own enjoyment of our bodies--with the hope that the stripper is merely a neutral, physically-present being?
Yes. Of course. I go to strip clubs for my enjoyment.
Charlie61> Is it because you think that you and the stripper would both enjoy mutual touching?
No. A customer is not there for stipper's enjoyment. The stripper is there for customer's enjoyment.
Charlie61> Is the customer deluded into thinking that the stripper would get off on it?
No. Only the very naive newbies would think that a stripper is there to get off on meeting middle-aged guys.
Charlie61> Does the customer honestly not give a shit whether or not the girl would enjoy being touched?
Well, let me ask you this: Do you give a shit if a cook enjoys cooking a meal for you in a restaurant? Do you give a shit if a roofer enjoys working on your roof? Do you give a shit if a mechanic enjoys working on your car?
A stripper is a businesswoman. She is there to make money; she is not in a club for her pleasure. I too, do not go to work for pleasure, but to make money. The people who report to me do not work for their pleasure, but to make money.
I do not try to make it unbearable for a stripper, but it makes no sense to think that if I were to touch a stripper it would be to make her feel good. If a stripper wants to be made feel good, she should go to a spa.
grindonme
09-03-2008, 10:20 PM
Uh, sorry Charlie, but I read the entire thread and I still do not understand what it is that is so perplexing. A lot of people said a lot of things. What else need to be said?
But let me go to your orginal post, and see if I can redeem myself
Charlie61>If you have desired to (or have acted upon the desire to) touch a stripper, then why is this?
Yes, I have a desire to touch a stripper. Why? Because I enjoy touching seminaked woman's body.
Charlie61> Is it purely for your own enjoyment of our bodies--with the hope that the stripper is merely a neutral, physically-present being?
Yes. Of course. I go to strip clubs for my enjoyment.
Charlie61> Is it because you think that you and the stripper would both enjoy mutual touching?
No. A customer is not there for stipper's enjoyment. The stripper is there for customer's enjoyment.
Charlie61> Is the customer deluded into thinking that the stripper would get off on it?
No. Only the very naive newbies would think that a stripper is there to get off on meeting middle-aged guys.
Charlie61> Does the customer honestly not give a shit whether or not the girl would enjoy being touched?
Well, let me ask you this: Do you give a shit if a cook enjoys cooking a meal for you in a restaurant? Do you give a shit if a roofer enjoys working on your roof? Do you give a shit if a mechanic enjoys working on your car?
A stripper is a businesswoman. She is there to make money; she is not in a club for her pleasure. I too, do not go to work for pleasure, but to make money. The people who report to me do not work for their pleasure, but to make money.
I do not try to make it unbearable for a stripper, but it makes no sense to think that if I were to touch a stripper it would be to make her feel good. If a stripper wants to be made feel good, she should go to a spa.
End of thread;D
charlie61
09-03-2008, 10:59 PM
I know, grindonme. I'm sick of my own thread. But I can't let a post go unanswered.
bsteve- I understand your perspective. Thank you. Sorry if my response earlier sounded really bitchy...
The real question behind all of this has been a more (stereotypically) woman-minded one--like...why would you ENJOY touching someone if you know that they aren't enjoying being touched? Personally, I wouldn't even want to touch a dancer because I know she wouldn't want me to. It's less about "strippers are like cooks--I eat the food cooks make me, and I touch the goods when she offers 'em up." That's kind of a problematic analogy, anyway. But whatever. That was discussed pages ago.
Clearly, in many, but definitely not all, cases, the patrons don't give a shit. They like touching. It's an evolutionary response. Blah blah blah blah blah.....::thread goes on forever:: Everyone is different. The end!
Lurker
09-04-2008, 07:01 PM
OK everyone has talked themselves out in this thread, but I'm going to bring up something I think is important...
Customers like to feel like insiders. They like to know how the club "works", what the games are that the dancers play, what the dancers are thinking, etc. They want to feel BETTER than the other customers.
But part of that extends to wanting to prove to themselves that dancer X likes them more than everyone else in the club--"she'll let ME do this, because I'm charming/handsome/rich/whatever, but I saw her give a totally different dance to that other guy".
And this is where he can get his little dose of reality in the middle of fantasy, right? Even if he knows you don't actually ENJOY him touching you, if he can get away with something that's not meant to be allowed or that he knows you don't allow certain other customers to do, he advances himself mentally in the pecking order of men generally, and of your preferred customers in particular. For some reason, you DID favor him over another customer, and that's one thing that's real about the experience.
Now you may be mentally moving him DOWN your list as he does those things, but it's probably gratifying enough for him to know that, for whatever reason, he started higher than customer X and proving that point may be more valuable to him than keeping his position (which he was unaware of until he attempted to measure it).
charlie61
09-04-2008, 07:05 PM
^^
Interesting, Lurker. So even if he's not looking for carnal information that he can go out and brag about to his friends, it's gratifying to mentally know that, for whatever reason, he got away with ____, and (to his knowledge) no one else did?
Thanks for the new angle!
**Sorry for replying so creepishly fast. I'm procrastinating on my homework, so I'm buzzing around SW like an addict.**
xdamage
09-04-2008, 07:12 PM
...They want to feel BETTER than the other customers...part of that extends to wanting to prove to themselves that dancer X likes them more than everyone else in the club--"she'll let ME do this, because I'm charming/handsome/rich/whatever, but I saw her give a totally different dance to that other guy".....
I clipped out a lot and yes I think what you wrote is true. Us guys compete around women to be liked the best, to have the most chances to mate, etc., and we do it (this competition and show of sexual acceptability) without thinking mostly, but yes.. I think that is driving guys too in the club.
Casual Observer
09-05-2008, 11:50 AM
This goes back to my thread's question (further clarified by Jenny)--of why customers want to touch the strippers when they (usually) know that the strippers don't want to be touched.
To mix a stripping metaphor, you'll find that your mileage between strippers will vary greatly in this regard.
Moreover, there's a big difference between touching and assault, a fact lost on the preponderance of dancers here on Pink, which frequently renders most of the follow-on commentary useless.
charlie61
09-05-2008, 11:53 AM
^^ Agreed.
Lurker
09-05-2008, 12:21 PM
So...it's gratifying to mentally know that, for whatever reason, he got away with ____, and (to his knowledge) no one else did?
Yeah--or in the weaker case, he got away with it and SOMEone else didn't.
kickt
09-10-2008, 06:35 PM
Why do patrons want to touch the dancers. Lots of reasons and depends on the person. I don't touch them unless invited directly or those that enjoy moving themselves against me and inviting it that way. Otherwise I don't. I love to let them BB me, but that still remains rare so far :( but things are looking up :) thanks to this site. That said, here are my thoughts.
1. I haven't seen many dancers that I didn't find to be beautiful and I think that it is natural to want to touch beautiful things - whether a woman or not. That hits a lot of categories.
2. Some believe that if they can just touch a person that they can convey a feeling or emotion that they cannot convey in other ways that will let the other person know how they feel about them. And hope that touch will be reciprocated.
3. Dancers for many are a fantasy; a girl that they will never have. Touching them gives a momentary sense of relationship.
3. Some are just horny and want the satisfaction of touch to complement what their eyes have witnessed.
4. Some want to see how far they can push the rules.
5. Some will touch because they know that the dancer isn't going to touch them. Kind of an "if what you want doesn't come after you then go after it."
6. Most that touch you want more. A glance or look is the first contact, a touch the second, and there is always a faint, if unrealistic hope that it might lead to more. That maybe that smile for them really does mean something special that could be something more. No one said customers were realisitic.
7. Some are lonely, lead lives lacking in touch and it is a natural desire to touch and be touched.
8. Some are just plain crude, overbearing, over-confident, rude, mysoginistic or other traits generally frowned upon but never recognized by the owner of the trait.
I know - too much. I'll let it go, but those are a few of the reasons and there are that many more.....................at least.
Kickt:O