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jack0177057
04-17-2009, 07:30 PM
To explain what I mean....from a stripper's point of view... The women you see in high-contact clubs (and I have no problem with high contact clubs!) want you to touch them because they realize that more touching= more money. They want you to spend money, yes? 99% of the strippers you touch aren't enjoying your contact. Therefore, if I were you (which I'm obviously not), I wouldn't be able to enjoy these dances, since I'm more than aware of how the stripper feels (she feels anywhere from ambivalent to repulsed).

Charlie, my experience has been the same as the other guy that you are replying to... Honestly, I always thought I was doing them a favor because, when I rubbed their back or feet, I got something like..."Oh, that feels so good.", "I've been on my feet all day and that feels wonderful.",... etc. Had I known it was just a performance, I would not have bothered.

So, your revelation of the TRUTH puts me in a quandry... It's like making the discovery that Santa Clause does not exist and that it is all just an act. What to do? Do you: (A) play along and pretend that you are fooled by the act, so that you continue to receive generous Christmas presents, (B) say to the Santa Clause impersonator, "Just stop it, I know this is an act, so let's cut to the chase and hand over my present" or (3) give up presents at Christmas time altogether? Which would you choose?

charlie61
04-17-2009, 07:48 PM
Charlie, my experience has been the same as the other guy that you are replying to... Honestly, I always thought I was doing them a favor because, when I rubbed their back or feet, I got something like..."Oh, that feels so good.", "I've been on my feet all day and that feels wonderful.",... etc. Had I known it was just a performance, I would not have bothered.

So, your revelation of the TRUTH puts me in a quandry... It's like making the discovery that Santa Clause does not exist and that it is all just an act. What to do? Do you: (A) play along and pretend that you are fooled by the act, so that you continue to receive generous Christmas presents, (B) say to the Santa Clause impersonator, "Just stop it, I know this is an act, so let's cut to the chase and hand over my present" or (3) give up presents at Christmas time altogether? Which would you choose?

Mmm...back/foot massages? See, that's a completely different issue. I personally LOVE back/foot massages while working (as long as the guy doesn't try to turn the back massage into an excuse to move towards my butt/boobs--I work at a no-contact club).

Sexual touching, however, is a different issue. I can't even imagine working at a high contact club. I mean, I already have problems with detachment, and that'd exacerbate my problem completely. Plus...guys kneading my boobs? Sounds like the most painful thing ever. I'm not judging women who do this at all...I actually respect them for being able to deal with the high contact while keeping good attitudes (as long as they're doing this legally in a contact club).

And, of course, I'm sure some strippers do enjoy contact. Someone has to, right? There's pleasure to be found in 1) another person's company and 2) money and even 3) objectification (contact without intimacy). So perhaps some of the strippers are being genuine. (I personally love dancing for 90% of my customers, but I can't really speak here since I don't touch them, which is an entirely different issue than the one I discuss in this thread. This thread was originally about high-contact club touching and unwanted touching in low/no contact clubs.)

I personally would give up receiving Christmas presents (Your choice #3...though I don't think paying for dances and receiving presents are analogous to one another). If I were a customer, I honestly wouldn't enjoy a contact dance if there were even a slight possibility that the stripper was not enjoying herself. However, there's something to be said for enjoying the purity of contact with another human being. So I don't condemn those customers who continue enjoying contact dances despite the mindset of the stripper.

There really is no way to tell whether or not the dancer's attitude is genuine (I'm not saying that we all lie. But some strippers lie, others are honest, and far more others have conflicting feelings about their mentalities while dancing). This alone is enough to turn me off of receiving lap dances (though I can't speak from experience).

charlie61
04-17-2009, 07:52 PM
Oh, and Jack-- Definitely do NOT ever go for option #2. All you will ever receive from accusing a dancer of this is anger, confusion, indignation, et cetera. She may actually be genuine (in which case your accusation would be offensive), or you may be spot on (in which case she'll either turn bitchy or angrily deny that you're right). Bad, bad, bad. I'm not saying you'd do this....but just don't!

And by all means, if you can, go for #1. I personally wouldn't be able to repress my thoughts expressed in this thread, but if you can still enjoy receiving presents while knowing Santa Clause doesn't exist, then more power to you!

subwoofer
04-18-2009, 01:37 AM
^ I hear what you're saying... I think the conclusion then would be that you enjoy touching for the sake of touching--despite the reasons the strippers have for wanting you to touch them?

Yeah, I'm a very tactile person, and I enjoy the sensuousness of a woman's curves and soft skin very much.

To explain what I mean....from a stripper's point of view... The women you see in high-contact clubs (and I have no problem with high contact clubs!) want you to touch them because they realize that more touching= more money. They want you to spend money, yes? 99% of the strippers you touch aren't enjoying your contact. Therefore, if I were you (which I'm obviously not), I wouldn't be able to enjoy these dances, since I'm more than aware of how the stripper feels (she feels anywhere from ambivalent to repulsed).

Obviously, I'm aware of the underlying rule of the fantasy of a SC is that women will do whatever they can to maximize their income, and I'm more than willing (finances willing as well) to participate in their endeavor.

I consider myself a well-read, intelligent, articulate guy, with the ability to suspend my considerable thought processes inside a SC. IOW, I'm not liable to over-analyze the situation, and realize that if I'm the one dishing out the cash, I should simply lose myself in the bliss of the moment.

Without trying to sound too delusional, I tend to believe that my ladies do derive some measure of enjoyment from physical stimulation. I firmly believe that of the five human senses, "touch" is the most sensual and passionate, and taking it out of the SC environment is, IMO, almost criminal!

When I touch someone, I don't enjoy it unless I know that the person I'm touching is also enjoying the experience. So my experience at a high-contact club would likely be...bad. But seriously--props to you for enjoying it! Nothing wrong with that at all.

I think I can speak on behalf of all men reading this that in a SC environment, pretty much 100 percent of men are enjoying the "touch" experience. Now, many may be undisciplined--eg. the 19 yos that pop a boner and grope you--that's out of line. That's when your enjoyment for 2-way contact may wane.

That's more of what the thread is about...and it's the reason why I doubt my abilities to enjoy receiving lap dances. And I hear you about not understanding no-contact clubs (I work at one)--I honestly don't think I would pay for a dance unless I were "getting" something out of it. And since I clearly wouldn't enjoy it even if I were getting something out of it, I obviously wouldn't enjoy any kind of lap dance period. Blah.

To each his (or her) own, I say! In the two short months I've started going to SC's, I've come to a reasonable expectation of what I desire when I open my wallet--and (not to get delusional again) but my ATF's seem to resonate with me!

With SC's, I don't have to deal with the blueball roulette of singles bars and the borderline dangerous abyss of casino gambling. I've been there, both, too many times, and my newly-cultivated SC habit is, to me, a healthy complement to my admittedly crazy lifestyle. (I'm posting on SW at 3:30 am!;D)

By the way--thank you for reading through the thread before posting! It's a monster!

Yer welcome! Like I said, I made it almost all the way through!
nm nm nm...

subwoofer
04-18-2009, 01:57 AM
Charlie--I realize now that I may have used the verb "kneading" in an unintentional manner. In no way do I treat womens' breasts like bread dough...maybe the more appropriate action word should have been "caressing?"

charlie61
04-18-2009, 08:49 AM
^ Good! I always cringe when I watch pornos and the man is kneading the woman's breasts. Yikes!!

And in response to your answer: Fair enough, my friend. Fair enough. ::bows out::

FBR
04-18-2009, 02:33 PM
Kneading makes me think of cats...you know...when they find something soft and comfortable under their paws and their natural instincts kick in.

Actually, breasts remind me of bread dough except they don't rise. I don't understand why you corrected yourself and apologized, subwoofer ;)

FBR

charlie61
04-18-2009, 03:10 PM
^ Perhaps I'm the weird one, but anything but light touching on my breasts is painful. A far, far, far cry from pleasurable. I can't imagine enduring "kneading" from even my SO...much less dozens of random guys in a strip club.

FBR
04-18-2009, 03:20 PM
^ Thus the winky. But I do hold firm that cats have it right. I would like to achieve their level of contentment.

FBR

charlie61
04-18-2009, 03:34 PM
^ My bad. How could I miss the winky??

FBR
04-18-2009, 03:38 PM
^ My bad actually. I should have made my attempt at humor more obvious.

PS: You have an SO? Damn, I should have known but I am crushed. No more verbal jousting :P

FBR

charlie61
04-18-2009, 03:43 PM
^ We're non-monogamous. Which means we're both allowed to mess around with other people as long as no emotional ties are involved. Muahahaha. (This was my stipulation--he's naturally monogamous).

FBR
04-18-2009, 04:10 PM
You don't like me...I am a pompous thread jacking ass. And I don't like you...you are are way too smart and educated for a stripper. Tell your man no worries :P

FBR

charlie61
04-18-2009, 04:30 PM
^ Glad we got that straight. I've been trying to express just how completely I dislike you ever since joining SW.

FBR
04-18-2009, 04:47 PM
^ ;D You are a wordsmith and so concise your post sent a tingle up my leg. I bask in your reflected glory.

FBR

charlie61
04-18-2009, 04:51 PM
^ Worship me, mortal!!!!!!!!!

FBR
04-18-2009, 05:03 PM
^ I lost my faith many years ago. You will have to prove to me you are worthy of worship.

FBR

charlie61
04-18-2009, 05:15 PM
Le sigh. :'(

/end threadjack

commanderadama
04-18-2009, 05:38 PM
Because heterosexual men like to fondle 20 something women. :D

I think what I find most interesting about the stripper world forum is the various levels of delusion the different parties to this sex trade entertain.

Honestly, I'd never get a lap dance at a no contact club. But I think if a guy buys a lapdance from you, he's attracted to you and wants to do stuff to you. What he wants to do depends on the guy, but at the very least he wants to feel your soft skin.

For example at the clubs I go to I can touch everywhere except the kitty. The girls that work at these joints don't fool around either, everything is off in seconds. Since I'm only attracted to the very slim, small chested girls my laps have the added benefit of acrobatics. There is something magical about a young women back flipping her kitty into your face. }:D

But to your specific questions 1) Yes, I fondle because I enjoy it. 2) I'm sure the dancer doesn't "enjoy" touching but it's part of the gig. 3) No, but they "like" me because I'm clean, smell nice and don't try to penetrate them.

Your last question is right on point for too many men in general. And I mean inside and outside the club. Misogyny in this world is reaching disturbing levels. Hmmm perhaps I should start a thread on that?

charlie61
04-18-2009, 05:44 PM
^ I think that's the best way to look at it. She's enjoying the money aspect, you're enjoying her company--nothing wrong with that.

FBR
04-18-2009, 05:50 PM
Le sigh. :'(

/end threadjack

I'm sorry. I'm in a mood.

FBR

FBR
04-18-2009, 06:04 PM
Because heterosexual men like to fondle 20 something women. :D Fondling and kneading can be offensive. I would never do that unless the dancer approved.


Your last question is right on point for too many men in general. And I mean inside and outside the club. Misogyny in this world is reaching disturbing levels. Hmmm perhaps I should start a thread on that? Not sure what post this was referring to. I am leery when customers spout about misogyny. I mean, IMO they are generally trying to suck up.

FBR

charlie61
04-18-2009, 06:20 PM
I think a far more interesting thread to start would be one about the widespread abuse against men that is becoming increasingly prevalent (OTC). I've met so many men who have been either verbally or verbally and physically abused by their SO's.

It's like this post-feminist movement where women believe they can do anything and men believe they have to put up with everything. Women can be just as hurtful as men.

Obviously misogyny is still around and everything. But I find this backlash fascinating. Big, strong men grow up seeing themselves as potential weapons against women, and so react by becoming meek--they think they have to endure everything their girlfriends/wives throw at them.

charlie61
04-18-2009, 06:21 PM
I'm sorry. I'm in a mood.

FBR

No worries. This thread is long enough that I don't even think the word "threadjack" really applies anymore. Deviations abound. It all fits under the general umbrella. Sort of. :P

inThePine
04-18-2009, 07:36 PM
I think a far more interesting thread to start would be one about the widespread abuse against men that is becoming increasingly prevalent (OTC). I've met so many men who have been either verbally or verbally and physically abused by their SO's.

It's like this post-feminist movement where women believe they can do anything and men believe they have to put up with everything. Women can be just as hurtful as men.

Obviously misogyny is still around and everything. But I find this backlash fascinating. Big, strong men grow up seeing themselves as potential weapons against women, and so react by becoming meek--they think they have to endure everything their girlfriends/wives throw at them.

yep, definitely too smart and educated for a stripper.. lol this is a very well-said comment on the delicate power balance that we face in relationships - too often (well only twice really, but you know what i mean) have I found myself in relationships like this, where it eventually got to where it seemed like the guy would just roll over after a few months and absorb every bit of discontentment i could throw their way. I should have done the mature thing and either worked it out or ended it, but what can i say - i was 18, 19 yrs old and hormonal.

anyway, when i've been to the club i always waited to see what level of contact the dancer initiated (the last time she ended up putting her nipple in my mouth - NOT what i had intended!! freaked me out a lil) and then just go with the flow, not aggressive at all, because i would be freaked out by strangers feeling me up if i were in their stilettos. (well hopefully i will be soon, but ya know) then again I also have lots more compassion for a dancer than the average male so..

FBR
04-18-2009, 08:05 PM
^ Charlie and I tease back and forth. My comment was tongue in cheek as she knew. Having said that, my lizard self wishes she wasn't a smarty. I wouldn't mind trying to manipulate my way into having my way with her }:D

FBR

Crow2
04-18-2009, 08:16 PM
Charlie--I realize now that I may have used the verb "kneading" in an unintentional manner. In no way do I treat womens' breasts like bread dough...maybe the more appropriate action word should have been "caressing?"

We're not making biscuits here honey. }:D

vmurphy252
04-18-2009, 09:58 PM
I now have an image of the ready-to-bake biscuit tube popping in a place where that image doesn't belong...

Crow2
04-18-2009, 11:46 PM
I now have an image of the ready-to-bake biscuit tube popping in a place where that image doesn't belong...


Neener }:D

subwoofer
04-19-2009, 12:25 AM
We're not making biscuits here honey. }:D

Point taken. ;)

subwoofer
04-19-2009, 01:12 AM
yep, definitely too smart and educated for a stripper.. lol this is a very well-said comment on the delicate power balance that we face in relationships - too often (well only twice really, but you know what i mean) have I found myself in relationships like this, where it eventually got to where it seemed like the guy would just roll over after a few months and absorb every bit of discontentment i could throw their way. I should have done the mature thing and either worked it out or ended it, but what can i say - i was 18, 19 yrs old and hormonal.

(snip...)

This post resonated with me on more than a few levels. I'm physically imposing (I have been a bouncer at concerts when I was younger, and my nickname I use on internet message boards was gained from my "game" on local basketball courts) but I had a childhood where I witnessed more than my share of domestic violence, and it profoundly changed my life and my relationships with women.

The last time I was in a SC a week ago, my "new" ATF and I shared a good portion of our life stories, and she simply asked me, why is a guy like you still single with no kids at your age? My answer was, to make a long response short, that I am conflict-avoidant in relationships, and I've learned over the years to enjoy relationships as they happen, and if one doesn't work out, move on to the next one.

I really hate arguing and fighting in the context of a relationship. I'd rather give up than try to work things through. (That's how much my childhood experiences have stained my LTR's with women.) So when inthepine says she had her SO's simply "roll over" after a few months--that's me.

To bring this back somewhat thread-relevant, that's why I truly enjoy the newfound wonder of SC's for me. No games, or any pretense thereof--i mean what other social situation can I ask a woman what her cup size is 2 minutes after meeting her!?--and I can leave my relationship at the front door and pick back up on it a week or two later. For me, it's a win-win.

glambman
04-19-2009, 05:43 AM
the widespread abuse against men that is becoming increasingly prevalent (OTC).



I don't think it is becoming more prevalent, it is just being reported on more.

charlie61
04-19-2009, 09:04 AM
^ I've never seen a report on this. I'm not talking about the really obvious, beer-flinging, pushing-into-walls abuse. I'm talking more about the subtle stuff that can go on for years. Women implicitly and explicitly putting their SO's down and whatnot.

commanderadama
04-19-2009, 11:31 AM
I think a far more interesting thread to start would be one about the widespread abuse against men that is becoming increasingly prevalent (OTC). I've met so many men who have been either verbally or verbally and physically abused by their SO's.

It's like this post-feminist movement where women believe they can do anything and men believe they have to put up with everything. Women can be just as hurtful as men.

Obviously misogyny is still around and everything. But I find this backlash fascinating. Big, strong men grow up seeing themselves as potential weapons against women, and so react by becoming meek--they think they have to endure everything their girlfriends/wives throw at them.

For me the phenomenon you mention above is the separate issue of emasculation. And I think that this comes from the marriage and child support laws in the western countries enacted in the last 30 years. It is also important to remember that most of the worlds population doesn't live in the west.

But what I find disturbing is the disrespect in general towards women. I think the porn industry has a lot to do with this, especially the girls gone wild series. Women don't seem to value themselves much so why should men? The 20 somethings I hang out with are just messes. Involved in pyramid schemes, chasing get rich dreams, hooking up with the random "hot" member of the opposite sex and wondering why they're miserable. It's hard yet entertaining to watch. }:D

I'll put my thoughts together on this subject and start a thread on our topic once I get it all worked out.

charlie61
04-19-2009, 12:38 PM
^ How is GGW adding to misogyny? It's bad that women feel free to show their boobs on camera? And your grouping of that with the porn industry makes me think that you also think stripping adds to misogyny. So you'd say that male porn stars add to disrespectful feelings against men? I guess I severely disagree with you.

That sounds like a reaaaally bad thread idea. I'm guessing it'd stir up a hell of a lot of drama. Make sure you collect your thoughts before you throw that out there.

glambman
04-19-2009, 01:18 PM
^ I've never seen a report on this. I'm not talking about the really obvious, beer-flinging, pushing-into-walls abuse. I'm talking more about the subtle stuff that can go on for years. Women implicitly and explicitly putting their SO's down and whatnot.

It is just more open now. There have been reports about the problem going back over a decade. There was a decent study several years ago 2003/4.



And I think that this comes from the marriage and child support laws in the western countries enacted in the last 30 years.

Nope.

It is also important to remember that most of the worlds population doesn't live in the west.

Have you ever been outside of your little circle? Women are treated better here then in most of the world, where they are viewed as property. Look up India, where women's families pay a dowry and when the parents can no longer pay (post marriage dowries), they dump the wife.

But what I find disturbing is the disrespect in general towards women. I think the porn industry has a lot to do with this, especially the girls gone wild series. Women don't seem to value themselves much so why should men? The 20 somethings I hang out with are just messes. Involved in pyramid schemes, chasing get rich dreams, hooking up with the random "hot" member of the opposite sex and wondering why they're miserable. It's hard yet entertaining to watch. }:D

Especially GGW? lololol Don't you think Throated has a slight more negative portrayal of women? GGW is lame compared to most porn.

Also, if you feel that porn is negative towards females, quit watching it. Pretty simple, ehh. I did. I could feel the change in 'attitude' after about 5 minutes). When you put something inside of you on a consistent basis, it is only reasonable to assume it will influence your views/ thoughts.

I'll put my thoughts together on this subject and start a thread on our topic once I get it all worked out.

Please don't.::)

commanderadama
04-19-2009, 07:50 PM
Hi glambman:

I find it humorous that you responded to what you thought I wrote than to actually what I wrote. Also your condescending tone is not appreciated. Methinks your reading comprehension is sorely lacking.

charlie61
04-19-2009, 08:37 PM
^^ Despite his interpretation...it sounds like you were correlating all parts of the sex industry with misogynistic social problems, yes?

commanderadama
04-19-2009, 09:02 PM
^^ Despite his interpretation...it sounds like you were correlating all parts of the sex industry with misogynistic social problems, yes?

Hi Charlie:

I'm trying to figure out the contributing factors to the phenomenon. I see the problem, it appears to be getting worse but I cannot put my finger on it. Perhaps it's too complex to understand?

I guess my problem with the GGW series is that they seem very exploitative. I just don't think it's right to take advantage of intoxicated individuals. Perhaps it's just a pet peeve of mine, but as an example...

Last week I was out drinking with the 20 somethings and a recently turned 21 year old single mom was with us. She was drunk and was talking all night about her bunnies. The devil in me had to know where they were, so I asked "Where exactly are these bunnies" she points at her pelvis, "wanna see?" What is the appropriate response to this question? I mean of course I wanna see, I'm a dirty old man LOL but would it be appropriate to take advantage of her intoxicated state and reply "Hell Yeah!" ??? I thought not and said no.

But what if I had said yes, whipped out my phone cam and posted it on myspace? Pretty sleazy no? Now what if GGW had convinced me such behavior was acceptable? My fear is that our society is moving towards such behavior as being acceptable.

My hypothesis is in its infancy, like I said I need to gather my thoughts.

jack0177057
04-21-2009, 08:33 AM
Oh, and Jack-- Definitely do NOT ever go for option #2. All you will ever receive from accusing a dancer of this is anger, confusion, indignation, et cetera. She may actually be genuine (in which case your accusation would be offensive), or you may be spot on (in which case she'll either turn bitchy or angrily deny that you're right). Bad, bad, bad. I'm not saying you'd do this....but just don't!

And by all means, if you can, go for #1. I personally wouldn't be able to repress my thoughts expressed in this thread, but if you can still enjoy receiving presents while knowing Santa Clause doesn't exist, then more power to you!

Thanks for the advice... But, I left out option #4... just forget everything I've read on this forum and return to my previous state of blissful ignorance. Why let all those fine acting skills go to waste, right?...Anyway, its better to be a happy fool surrounded by beautiful semi-naked woman than a sad and lonely wise man...

[New knowledge from stripperweb.com - Deleted.]
She really likes me!...;D

charlie61
04-21-2009, 02:37 PM
^ More power to ya, my friend. For real.

jack0177057
04-21-2009, 03:50 PM
^ More power to ya, my friend. For real.

You really like me, too! ;D Being ignorant of the truth is awesome! :) Truth is so overrated... :P

vmurphy252
04-21-2009, 03:59 PM
Oooh, look; a unicorn.

jack0177057
04-22-2009, 08:24 AM
Oooh, look; a unicorn.

I see her... She is so pretty...:)

Crow2
04-22-2009, 10:04 AM
Thanks for the advice... But, I left out option #4... just forget everything I've read on this forum and return to my previous state of blissful ignorance. Why let all those fine acting skills go to waste, right?...Anyway, its better to be a happy fool surrounded by beautiful semi-naked woman than a sad and lonely wise man...

[New knowledge from stripperweb.com - Deleted.]
She really likes me!...;D

You are over analyzing again ;D Hey! I never noticed that - there's anal in there:P

glambman
04-22-2009, 12:03 PM
analyzing ...... Hey! I never noticed that - anal

Freudian slip......:moon:

Crow2
04-22-2009, 01:44 PM
Freudian slip......:moon:

No, actually that was sarcasm. Like this.. I will explain it where you can understand it next time.

glambman
04-22-2009, 01:51 PM
No, actually that was sarcasm. Like this.. I will explain it where you can understand it next time.

When I can understand it, you will be able to understand what a jest is, like this. I even used a smilie. ohh well. Maybe it was its sideways smile that threw you off. ::)

datchapin
04-23-2009, 11:52 AM
Why do I want to touch the strippers?.... to make sure they're real. J/K. Honestly, cuz it's fun. I'm in H-town so contact down here is pretty rampant. I don't ever intend to molest or anything, but when I'm invited to do so, hell yeah I take advantage. I like to do it to see what reactions I'll get. Sometimes they're okay, sometimes they're grrrr-ate. The thing is no 2 girls are ever the same and to me even though they're strangers, they're still ppl I can get to know. Part of that knowledge is gained through contact. Sometimes I'll touch girls just to get a what the fuck reaction, like when they're just sitting next to me I'll reach out and poke them on the cheek or something. As long as it's within limits it's all gravy.

Just my 2 cents

charlie61
04-23-2009, 04:24 PM
^ Interesting. Good job on actually answering the question! (It seems to stump many members)