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cutey5032
08-25-2008, 07:27 AM
High schoolers need to be taught life skills. Parenting, cooking, budgeting, skills are a must. Every student needs to know how to properly feed oneself, manage their credit report and so on. Its amazing how so many people are clueless to what things affect their credit, how to check it, and so on. They should be taught what the average eletric bill is, how to select a home, choose a job. I would think these are things that they should know. If I had the knowledge/patience, I would home school my children. I will make sure to teach them what they need to know to survive.

I agree! Why don't they teach this stuff!????? THOSE are survival skills and knowledge worth knowing and that applies to everyone! My boyfriend and I talk about this all the time (He got kicked out/dropped out his senior year). He is reading some book right now about how to be your own boss, and commented to me they'd NEVER have us read something that valuable in school. Ugh.

AudreyLeigh
08-25-2008, 07:44 AM
I got my daughters star testing scores back. Scoring is 1-99.

She got 99 in three catagories, 88 in the other (math). Is 9 and reads at an 8th grade level.

I worry that shes not being challenged..... it being too easy and her just breezing through. I dont want it to be hard but when her homework is supposed to take an hour and shes done in 5 minutes something is wrong.

NewMoon
08-25-2008, 07:47 AM
^^^I definitely agree and I believe I suffered because of this. For all of grades 1-8, homework was just like filling out a survey or something and when I went to high school and university and actually had to work, I lacked work and study skills that could have been developed at an earlier age.

Jenny
08-25-2008, 07:56 AM
What I had in mind was apprenticeship programs.
Apprenticeships are administered by colleges. You still have to get in and have a certain amount of skill, training and "trainability" or indicators thereof to apprentice in recognized trades.



Extremely difficult question to answer. My school had a developmentally delayed unit and they were responsible for cleaning the school. This was supposed to "train" them to get jobs as cleaners but I fail to see how a mentally challenged person in a wheelchair who can't sweep without assistance would be of benefit to any company or organization in any janitorial capacity. It pissed the hell out of me.
That actually seems really questionable - co ops are fine and good, but they are not supposed to be done in the same school - there is serious potential for abuse there.


But what DO we do with them? Not just the development challenged but, like you pointed out, the ones who are close?

I don't know, really :-\
Well, what we do now is give them high school lite - a program they are capable of passing but that is substantially different from programs that lead to post secondary training. Now if we think about what kinds of jobs are open and available to high school graduates - we're talking waiting tables, assembly lines that are disappearing, cash registers, McDonalds, mail room. Clerking and even menial office work tend to require some kind of post secondary degree now, unfortunately. Now this is not something that high schools can change - like a high school cannot institute a auto program that can train someone well enough to start an apprenticeship - this is just the job market. So what kinds of programs would benefit people going into these jobs?

Jenny
08-25-2008, 07:58 AM
^^^I definitely agree and I believe I suffered because of this. For all of grades 1-8, homework was just like filling out a survey or something and when I went to high school and university and actually had to work, I lacked work and study skills that could have been developed at an earlier age.
I actually disagree. I think young children should be able to complete their work within the school day. I think it is a little young to start hitting them with mandatory overtime.

NewMoon
08-25-2008, 08:03 AM
I actually disagree. I think young children should be able to complete their work within the school day. I think it is a little young to start hitting them with mandatory overtime.
I think amount of homework time and being challenged are two separate issues.

NewMoon
08-25-2008, 08:08 AM
Apprenticeships are administered by colleges. You still have to get in and have a certain amount of skill, training and "trainability" or indicators thereof to apprentice in recognized trades. I see. I was unaware of this. I was under the impression that an apprenticeship was just a private arrangement between a skilled person and the apprentice they choose and accept to take on.



That actually seems really questionable - co ops are fine and good, but they are not supposed to be done in the same school - there is serious potential for abuse there. I agree. I'm fine with teaching mentally handicapped teenagers how to clean buildings if there is potential for them to be productive members of society in that capacity. But it was clear with some that they not only lacked the "intelligence" but the physical requirements as well. One guy was in a wheelchair and had little arm strength. It just seemed ridiculous to me that this was somehow supposed to train him for a job as a cleaner when he can barely hold a broom.



Now this is not something that high schools can change - like a high school cannot institute a auto program that can train someone well enough to start an apprenticeship - this is just the job market. So what kinds of programs would benefit people going into these jobs? I have a hard time thinking that anyone capable of completing "basic" or "E - workplace" level classes in science, math, and English should not do so but maybe if more co-ops were available to these people? I don't really have any brilliant ideas but I'd be curious to hear yours if you have any.

Rockell
08-25-2008, 08:26 AM
High schoolers need to be taught life skills. Parenting, cooking, budgeting, skills are a must. Every student needs to know how to properly feed oneself, manage their credit report and so on. Its amazing how so many people are clueless to what things affect their credit, how to check it, and so on. They should be taught what the average eletric bill is, how to select a home, choose a job. I would think these are things that they should know. If I had the knowledge/patience, I would home school my children. I will make sure to teach them what they need to know to survive.

These kinds of classes were offered in the better high school I attended, but only to those students who weren't "college bound". All the same, I guess, since mostly of the college bound kids I knew would never need to know what an effing electric bill is because their parents paid for everything until they were damn near 30.

NewMoon
08-25-2008, 08:29 AM
All the same, I guess, since mostly of the college bound kids I knew would never need to know what an effing electric bill is because their parents paid for everything until they were damn near 30. Ummm..... wow. I guess this is regional because my peers and I (early twenties uni students and recent grads) are more than eager to get out of the nest!!! I left home at 18 and have been paying all my own rent and bills ever since.

PrettyCurlieQ
08-25-2008, 08:33 AM
To the OP: In a short answer, yes, IMO. However, it seems the world hasn't ended as a result. So I guess depending on your opinion of what task the public education system really has at hand, it could go both ways.

NewMoon
08-25-2008, 08:35 AM
To the OP: In a short answer, yes, IMO. However, it seems the world hasn't ended as a result. So I guess depending on your opinion of what task the public education system really has at hand, it could go both ways.
Well I certainly hope the purpose of public education is not to ensure the world doesn't end LOL :O

Rockell
08-25-2008, 08:36 AM
Ummm..... wow. I guess this is regional because my peers and I (early twenties uni students and recent grads) are more than eager to get out of the nest!!! I left home at 18 and have been paying all my own rent and bills ever since.

Lol it must be, because this is definitely the norm where I went to high school. Most of these people either still live at home with parents or live in a dorm or apartment that the parents pay for. They would probably shit themselves at the prospect of paying for their own electric lol. The sad thing is, the parents will probably still be paying once the kid graduates with his BA in psychology or pol sci because he can't get a job. Maybe I'm just bitter because I was expected to move out at 18 and support myself without any help from the parents.

PrettyCurlieQ
08-25-2008, 08:37 AM
^I'm just saying as a big picture, the failings of public schools aren't the worst problems we could be facing. But there's always room for improvement.

NewMoon
08-25-2008, 08:41 AM
Lol it must be, because this is definitely the norm where I went to high school. Most of these people either still live at home with parents or live in a dorm or apartment that the parents pay for. They would probably shit themselves at the prospect of paying for their own electric lol. The sad thing is, the parents will probably still be paying once the kid graduates with his BA in psychology or pol sci because he can't get a job. Maybe I'm just bitter because I was expected to move out at 18 and support myself without any help from the parents.
Gawd, I don't approve. My ex-bf was like this (though he is definitely a rare exception among my peer group). His parents were super rich and paid his tuition, rent, and gave him spending money. He flunked out of school. On the contrary, my parents gave me about $5000 a year for 4/5 years when my expenses (tuition, rent, bills, books, bus pass, ect.) were around $17,000. I made the rest myself. I actually valued my education and did reasonably well. I don't give myself full credit.

Are you American? I always thought Americans were even more prone to leave home for college because I constantly read about "going away to college" like it's assumed all will leave home. Among my peer group, about half left home first year and the other half mostly left home for their senior (3rd and 4th) years.

NewMoon
08-25-2008, 08:42 AM
^I'm just saying as a big picture, the failings of public schools aren't the worst problems we could be facing. But there's always room for improvement.
I'd be curious to know the other problems which you are referring to and how education of citizens may play a part in them. Education is so foundational I find it hard to think of it being lower on the priority scale.

Sophia_Starina
08-25-2008, 09:41 AM
Gosh, the topic is so cumbersome I don't even know where to begin. :no:

Zia_Abq
08-25-2008, 10:08 AM
It is a very regional issue. In some areas it has been a general failure. In others it is excellent.

Budai
08-25-2008, 12:09 PM
It is a very regional issue. In some areas it has been a general failure. In others it is excellent.

So true, Z!

I graduated in 1978 (whoo, I'm an old mf!) from University H.S., a public high school in West L.A. that consistently won national honors in Debating and Chess against both public and private schools for years. Despite ditching, drinking and drugging my way through a major portion of my H.S. career, I was able to absorb a modicum of schooling via sheer osmosis and gain admission to a prominent university. I am more than a little disgruntled that in 2008, we are paying $30K annually to ensure that both our sons receive a quality private education... :(

In California, the quality of public education began a downward spiral in the late 1970's when Howard Jarvis championed Proposition 13 (ironic number, eh?), a controversial tax cut bill that lowered property taxes but slashed public school funding dramatically. Over the following 30 years, factors such as overpopulation, immigration issues and addditional budget cuts ground a once decent public education system into the current cloud of dust called Los Angeles Unified School District.

With the exception of social experiments like billionaire Eli Broad's ongoing Oakland vanity project, most California public schools are biting the big chimichanga as far as funding and innovation are concerned.

golden41
08-25-2008, 01:07 PM
imo, some changes need to be made, lots more then just this
-Better science classes should start in middle school, not hs.
-Algebra and geometry and physics shouldnt be required in hs, whats the point when there are other classes just as beneficial that u wont have the chance to take b/c of these.
-2nd language (spanishand one other to chose from to satisfy the "rednecks" = french? latin?) should be an elementary subject when the brain is better with this
-better food
-basic cooking classes (i think some hs have this?)
-broader history classes
-more comfortble chairs
-better gym coaches/classes
-basic philosophy class should be offered

golden41
08-25-2008, 01:22 PM
^^^I'm going to make the argument that what you are proposing appears to be a school system in which the schools take over parenting children. Do you not think that things like cooking and budgeting should be taught by parents? My parents taught me and I definitely trust them more than any school.

what about the kids from dysfunctional families? there is a lot of that in america too

great discussion starter btw

Tauries
08-25-2008, 01:46 PM
Me thinks the days of real teachers is gone...

http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=20214&stc=1&d=1219697055

thechaosfairy
08-25-2008, 02:48 PM
One of my partners went to public school in a poor town in Arkansas over a decade ago, the other went to public school in a rich district of Virginia over two decades ago.

Both of them report having great experiences and learning a lot.

The Arkansas school had trades and apprenticeship programs, the Virginia school was basically college material.

I went to public school in California about a decade ago, and found it totally useless.

Funding has been cut over time, and sometimes the teachers these days are themselves dropouts. A "gifted program" class at one of the schools I went to was taught by an erratic guy who smoked pot between classes and spent his class time showing bad movies.

Additionally, it varies regionally a great deal -- for example, in Kansas they're not allowed to teach science because of the god-botherers, so I imagine they might be turning out a lot of maleducated kids these days (disclaimer: haven't been to school in Kansas, nor do I know anyone who has. Reports from the field, anyone?)

I couldn't finish high school because of my sleep disorder, so I'm very glad that I was able to get my GED and finish college on a more accessible schedule. That, and public school teaching in CA was such a mixed bag that I did most of my learning by reading books under my desk while the teacher was talking...

miabella
08-25-2008, 02:55 PM
they don't teach science in most public schools, period. i got better science teaching at the Christian private schools i attended than i ever got at the public schools i went to for HS and Jr High.

grade-segregated public school en masse is ridiculous. so was 'science' 100 years ago, and if we'd had public schools then, we wouldn't even have gotten to current science-- which also has its issues, not least of which is that 'critical thinking skills' are not allowed to be used when it comes to scientific dogma.

bah, public school=weak sauce.

the science thing is a great example of that. evolution is a complex topic, but it's reduced to something that you have to be 'for' or against' in terms of public school. the teachers teaching don't know what the heck it is, the parents protesting don't know either, and frankly, the children aren't going to learn anything useful or fact-based about it whether it's allowed in public schools or not. science itself just gets used as an ideological bludgeon-- nevermind that all fields of science have tons of stuff that 'isn't well understood' or 'is unknown, but certainly there are theories'-- instead science is presented as a fixed thing that is perfect and unchanging (and therefore more of a religion than most religions) instead of the mutable human mess that it actually is.

that's all almost a digression, but public schools produce the kind of people who think either that science is evil and so don't fact-check anything or science is always good and perfect and has an explanation for everything and so don't fact-check anything if someone invokes science.

public education is why the freakonomics guy *and* rush limbaugh is taken seriously. let that sink in.

TheSexKitten
08-25-2008, 02:56 PM
Something interesting to keep in mind is that we put only about 1/10 of what we spend on "special"/remedial education toward gifted education. This country needs to prioritize, and it needs to challenge students.

All the funding in the world won't make a difference if our culture continues to see high school/middle school as a social cesspool and an academic joke. We do not value education in this country, and kids are coddled for it. But we all still expect to go to university and succeed and drive our status symbol cars and have our luxurious suburban homes. ::) Sense of entitlement much?

The easiness/shittiness of high school is ridiculous compared to the amazing quality college/university level education we have available.

Jenny
08-25-2008, 03:05 PM
But we all still expect to go to university and succeed and drive our status symbol cars and have our luxurious suburban homes. ::) Sense of entitlement much?This is not the experience I personally have with young people. The young people I know expect to have to get student loans to get the most basic jobs and don't expect to ever be able to own a home, much less a luxurious one. Owning a home will not the marker of middle class success for today early-twenties people. Quite to contrary to a sense of entitlement I see a sense of hopelessness - not confused with unhappiness. I mean they aren't dragging around miserably, but there is no expectation of the kind of success and employment and financial stability that their parents had.

thechaosfairy
08-25-2008, 03:07 PM
public schools produce the kind of people who think either that science is evil and so don't fact-check anything or science is always good and perfect and has an explanation for everything and so don't fact-check anything if someone invokes science.

Um.

Checking your data is pretty much the most basic science skill out there.

Clearly, the state of education is worse than I thought. :P

TheSexKitten
08-25-2008, 03:10 PM
Um.

Checking your data is pretty much the most basic science skill out there.

Clearly, the state of education is worse than I thought. :P

FTW! :D

miabella
08-25-2008, 04:15 PM
Um.

Checking your data is pretty much the most basic science skill out there.

Clearly, the state of education is worse than I thought. :P

it's not, actually, because 'science' represents three things in practice: a body of knowledge, a profession and a method/process. the distinction between the three is generally only determinable by context when speaking of science in media and other discussions.

the body of knowledge that makes up one definition of 'science' is mutable and constantly changing, with bits being added and subtracted weekly/monthly/yearly. that mutability makes this definition the least accurate, but it is perhaps the most common use of 'science'.

science as a profession is somewhat mutable, as fields of study seek to and become considered 'sciences' with each passing decade, but there is granularity in determining such (soft vs hard), so it's not quite as mutable as the first definition.

and science as a process is the least mutable, in that its precepts are mostly fixed, but it is at the same time not really the definition used most.

this is the kind of nuance one never gets in public schooling, and it's the kind of nuance that is genuinely analytical and discerning.

TheSexKitten
08-25-2008, 04:25 PM
This is not the experience I personally have with young people. The young people I know expect to have to get student loans to get the most basic jobs and don't expect to ever be able to own a home, much less a luxurious one. Owning a home will not the marker of middle class success for today early-twenties people. Quite to contrary to a sense of entitlement I see a sense of hopelessness - not confused with unhappiness. I mean they aren't dragging around miserably, but there is no expectation of the kind of success and employment and financial stability that their parents had.

I meant less that the individuals themselves have entitlement issues, but rather that the typical American standard of living doesn't seem to match up very well to the rigor of K-12 education. Basically, high school is almost meaningless. It's the gateway to college, and it doesn't prepare students well anyway.

Sophia_Ashley
08-25-2008, 04:46 PM
Oh lawd.

Well I now homeschool. It will be my first year doing this so god help me. Before someone asks ..it's through k-12 and Chicago public charter school systems offers it free.

Institutions breed institutionalized children. And I refuse to adhere to this.

I will never do public schooling ever again. It is understaffed, under funded and most kids that come out aren't even prepared for college or the ones that they would want to go to. And honestly teachers can only do so much, parents are responsible for education as well. We are a society full of lazy adults that are breeding lazy kids. the cycle in my family has ended.

virgoamm
08-25-2008, 05:10 PM
That's awesome, S_A. The only concern I'd have with homeschooling is the lack of social contact with their peers which could possibly lead to either a lack of social skills or the inability to make friends as easily. All my friends that I had during that age I met at school.

But I think I remember you saying when you talked about this before that there were social gatherings with all of the homeschooled kids, which is cool if I remember it right. Plus, you could also enroll them in social activities that they like-maybe music classes, art, etc. so they can meet friends that they have something in common with.

Xiomara
08-25-2008, 05:14 PM
well you see where it got me. Im a stripper.
had to say it. saw the "ca-ca-cat fuck this ill just be a stripper" comment on myspace.
I wish I had gone through private schools. Ahries 3rd day of kindergarten and she can write almost her full name in cursive already.

xdamage
08-25-2008, 05:26 PM
When I grew up some people went to school to be wealthy. That pretty much meant being a Doctor or a Lawyer. But few people could cut that, as those can be stressful jobs and if your heart is not really in it, chances are you will fail (more so as a Doctor).

Otherwise unless you were a lucky actor, the rare musician, or some other fluke, chances are you wouldn't be rich.

The goal for most of was to be "middle class". Not poor, not rich, comfortable, and not overnight. We knew, you had to work your way up, make more money later in life, have a good career to get there.

It was pretty well understood most jobs wouldn't make you wealthy, but yet people pursued many careers because they wanted to work in the field.

The entitlement problem is "I am not going to be wealthy so why try at all?" Less kids saying, you know I just really love rocks and I want to be a Geologist first and foremost. I need enough to live on, but my real motivation here is love of the career.

The thing is most of us, after sleep, will live a good chunk of our lives at work. So it makes sense that we love our career and that it interests us.

But instead I see most people working just to get a paycheck, hating their jobs, not wanting to be stressed, not wanting to learn anything on their own, they just want to lounge and invest just enough in school and work to get paid. They aren't rich and so they see no reason to try because they will never be rich. Self defeating.

--

Me, I pursued two careers, one in school because I had to have a degree to do the job, and one out of love of the work. Wealth such as i have it creeped up on me as a bonus, over a couple decades. It was not why I choose the careers I did.

Public education is far from perfect, but public education isn't preventing anyone from picking up books to read on their own; it doesn't stop them from choosing to learn more then what is taught in school.

When I taught myself programming over 20 years ago, I read books on my own, I wrote on my own, I volunteered to run support sites on my own, I took a second job to do it paying little but for experience, because I loved doing it. Never got a degree. Haven't need it. I moved up because I love doing it and pursue learning it on my own. Anything a teacher can teach me, I can teach myself.

With my first career, I read and studied it out of love of the career... I didn't expect my teachers or public education to make it all happen for me. I did need a degree to do the job, and my teachers did teach me a lot, but it would be impossible for them to teach me all. I had to do it by doing it. Not waiting for them to do it.

Making big bucks?? I never expected to do so. Still am not rich. I make enough, saved a lot, am use to living frugally, I am careful to save for what I really want and not to spend on what I don't care about.

Sophia_Ashley
08-25-2008, 05:38 PM
That's awesome, S_A. The only concern I'd have with homeschooling is the lack of social contact with their peers which could possibly lead to either a lack of social skills or the inability to make friends as easily. All my friends that I had during that age I met at school.

But I think I remember you saying when you talked about this before that there were social gatherings with all of the homeschooled kids, which is cool if I remember it right. Plus, you could also enroll them in social activities that they like-maybe music classes, art, etc. so they can meet friends that they have something in common with.


Yeah I wanted to throw this in there...Because I didn't mention it. Since they are apart of a charter program they have to do social activites. We meet once a week at a School for socializing. The kids have classes that day with other kids.

I moved right across from a park, gym and pool so that they could meet other kids.

I've also signed them up for big brothers big sisters and looked into local boys and girls clubs.

Homeschooling is the way to go if you can dedicate time and energy as well as make an effort to social aspect.

NewMoon
08-25-2008, 06:27 PM
So true, Z!
we are paying $30K annually to ensure that both our sons receive a quality private education... This brings up another issue. Why should the children of rich parents be given a superior education?

I don't mean this as an attack against you. Just thought you alluded to an interesting discussion point.

NewMoon
08-25-2008, 06:32 PM
-Better science classes should start in middle school, not hs. I agree. My middle school "science" education was a joke.

-Algebra and geometry and physics shouldnt be required in hs, This is required in your community? Wow! We learn some of the above in our required science and math classes but we certainly are not required to take entire courses in the above. If we did, I would imagine a lot of people would not graduate high school!


-2nd language (spanishand one other to chose from to satisfy the "rednecks" = french? latin?) should be an elementary subject when the brain is better with this
We have a required grade 9French course in my school system. While I generally think it's great, I have a hard time when it comes to immigrants. My high school had an ESL program so we have a lot of new Canadians. It seemed a little troubling to me to watch them struggle to learn English in their ESL classes and then also be forced to take French.


-basic cooking classes (i think some hs have this?)
We had this. It was generally considered a "bird" course and people mostly took it to improve their average for university.


-broader history classes I don't know what you mean by this.


-basic philosophy class should be offered This was offered at my high school and I took it. It was a special treat my high school offered it and I think it was only for a short period. It is quite possibly the course that had the best lasting effect on me.

NewMoon
08-25-2008, 06:34 PM
what about the kids from dysfunctional families? there is a lot of that in america too

great discussion starter btw
This is a very good point you bring up. Unfortunately, my answer would be "deal with it." I don't like the concept of insitutionalizing families. I'm not sure if that is even a real phrase but it is now ;)

NewMoon
08-25-2008, 06:40 PM
It's the gateway to college, and it doesn't prepare students well anyway. Yes! I think I said this in my opening post. My experience with Ontario, Canada's public education system was that it was designed for students entering university while failing all others.

NewMoon
08-25-2008, 06:42 PM
That's awesome, S_A. The only concern I'd have with homeschooling is the lack of social contact with their peers which could possibly lead to either a lack of social skills or the inability to make friends as easily. All my friends that I had during that age I met at school. I agree this could be a problem if the parent does not plan properly but I think it's very possible to provide a rich social life for your child through homeschool groups and various activities like library clubs, dance lessons, karate, scouts, ect.

NewMoon
08-25-2008, 06:46 PM
Yeah I wanted to throw this in there...Because I didn't mention it. Since they are apart of a charter program they have to do social activites. We meet once a week at a School for socializing. The kids have classes that day with other kids.

I moved right across from a park, gym and pool so that they could meet other kids.

I've also signed them up for big brothers big sisters and looked into local boys and girls clubs.

Homeschooling is the way to go if you can dedicate time and energy as well as make an effort to social aspect.
It sounds like you are going about this very intelligently. Kudos to you! I'm sure your child(ren) will reap the benefits.

hardkandee
08-25-2008, 07:06 PM
I think the educational system is such a failure because it doesn't push students. Too much of the school system is being geared to more lifelike situational learning and the real education is slipping through the cracks.

Instead of having the goal to teach about balancing a checkbook strive for better math skills. Then you can balance your checkbook AND add up your groceries AND tip 20% AND figure out what 30% off the clearance price of 15% the original price is.

The purpose of education is not to prepare you only for the things you'll do later but to open up the possibilities so you can better decide what does appeal to you.

ahmeerah
08-25-2008, 07:22 PM
This is a tough topic! i went from an AWESOME public school to a private school (public school girls wanted to kick my ass over lies). I wish I could've stayed in my public school. I'm from a great college town and the public school in my town is competitive with some of the top private schools.

However, the public schools in the surrounding towns SUCKED ass. They lacked resources, innovative/passionate teachers (maybe because they had to focus on discipline and dealing with the higher ops not wanting to explore new things) and the classes were TOO BIG. I feel that classroom size puts a lot of kids at a disadvantage.

The benefit of me heading to a private school was that I wasn't lost. No student was invisible. Teachers had relationships/friendships with the students (I never saw this in public school). I didn't work nearly as hard in public school. My insecurities in public school got the best of me. The small private school didn't allow that to happen and I became a lot more secure in myself.

IMO public schools should implement smaller class sizes and make sure every kid is involved in something that's meaningful to them (arts, sports, etc). As far as courses like the sciences go, I would've been interested in physics if it wasn't all about building bridges. If they taught me how it relates to human structure (the body), I would've been interested and read the books! If teachers knew how to relate topics like algebra, physics, calculus, chemistry to things kids are actually interested in -- learning would be AWESOME.

thechaosfairy
08-25-2008, 11:29 PM
miabella: Fair enough. I'm inclined to regard science as a skill/mindset first, lacking context, because I did at least have a couple of good teachers early on who taught the scientific method.

Hey, all: Does anyone have the "Ca-ca-cat fuck this" picture as a base without text?

veronicachick
08-26-2008, 12:45 AM
This brings up another issue. Why should the children of rich parents be given a superior education?

I don't mean this as an attack against you. Just thought you alluded to an interesting discussion point.

because that is the way the world works. With money, there are more opportunities. It's not right... definitely not fair... but it's simply how it works with almost everything.
Teachers in public schools are usually so uninterested in their students because they are getting paid a shitty salary.

I attended public school here in FL, which is said to be one of the worst states as far education. I had my share of teachers who didn't do much teaching... but I was also lucky enough to come across some great teachers who taught me material I feel comes in handy in college.
Yes, the school system here is far from perfect but I am thankful that my parents came over to the US and gave me this opportunity to get an education. My cousin in Brasil attends public school, and I only hear horrible things. My mom also tells me it's not easy to go to college living in Rio. So coming from another country, I appreciate everything... even the "shitty" school system.

UltraViolet
08-26-2008, 01:16 AM
I feel like my grade school education failed me big time. College was a huge shock!

xdamage
08-26-2008, 04:11 AM
Personally I don't think we are inherently wired to do all that well in school. Oh I have met a few exceptions, true nerds who I wonder if they were born with it, but in general I just see kids wanting to play, and later in life, wanting to chase the other sex.

I think we are wired to spend our teen years in particular trying to attract mates. That comes naturally to us. But math? reading? science? Animals grow up and live just fine without them, yet... they do spend time trying attract other mates. Intellectual education is a wonderful luxury, but it is only relatively recently in history that it has such value. In more primitive cultures the opportunities to advance are even rarer and many have no formal schools at all. People just don't need it to "survive", to have sex, to have children.

So if anyone can effect a child's thinking... encourage them to study hard, learn on their own, take an interest, overcome their own innate nature, it is their parents! To me it has to start at home. Training one's own children to involve themselves even if there is no obvious use in their life for Geometry, or History, or Poetic writing.

Any parent hoping for the school system to instill these values in their kids makes absolutely no sense to me. If I, as the parent of my kids, who cares about them more then anyone else in the world, am too lazy to do that, why would I expect anyone else to give a shit? It would be great if teachers really cared about my kids, and maybe a few do, but why would I gamble away their future on some hope and altruism of others who I have no real control over?

NewMoon
08-26-2008, 04:52 AM
because that is the way the world works. With money, there are more opportunities. It's not right... definitely not fair... but it's simply how it works with almost everything. Well I'm from Canada and it works this way for education and does not work this way for healthcare. I can't figure out why one is okay and the other is not.


Teachers in public schools are usually so uninterested in their students because they are getting paid a shitty salary.
I disagree. People don't go to teacher's college and become teachers because of pay. They do it for their love of teaching. I'm sure there are shitty teachers out there, but I think most are great.

veronicachick
08-26-2008, 04:13 PM
I disagree. People don't go to teacher's college and become teachers because of pay. They do it for their love of teaching. I'm sure there are shitty teachers out there, but I think most are great.[/QUOTE]

maybe you feel this way because you have not attended school here in miami-dade. Like I said... I've encountered some great teachers but I've had my share of lazy teachers who never attempt to teach anything all year.

ArmySGT.
08-26-2008, 05:21 PM
http://www.hahastop.com/pictures/Evolution.jpg

This seems proof enough.

xdamage
08-26-2008, 05:52 PM
I disagree. People don't go to teacher's college and become teachers because of pay. They do it for their love of teaching. I'm sure there are shitty teachers out there, but I think most are great.

maybe you feel this way because you have not attended school here in miami-dade. Like I said... I've encountered some great teachers but I've had my share of lazy teachers who never attempt to teach anything all year.

I'd say it is neither simply A or B but some of both. Some enter for love, some for money, few even who love it would do it entirely for free, and even those who do it for love may fight to earn more compensation.

Also it can change over time. I was recently reading articles about the percentage of teachers in inner city schools who went in with high aspirations, but since left or are planning to leave.

Teachers can't fix all the home/family/personal problems/issues kids carry with them into class. Even a well meaning person may eventually can decide the battle is a losing one, hunker down, and change their strategy to one of self survival (i.e., getting paid, and making it through another day).