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bem401
09-08-2008, 12:40 PM
Yeah, and mentioning some people think the earth is being carried on the back of a giant turtle is OK, too--in a comparative world religion class, where such utterly nonsensical theories of world creation belongs.

Or maybe that aliens visited the earth 50,000 years ago and gave us a little helping hand. A lot of people believe that, too, we better make sure Junior understands it could have happened!

Ummm, giant turtles and aliens, I'm not sure how to respond to that. Do you seriously believe that some people actually think that we are on the back of a giant turtle?



Bibles are not considered physical evidence, BTW.

Never said they were. Never said it should be used in class either. But don't see the problem with saying " some people think a higher power had a hand in all this" and leaving it at that. It's not like the kids are being fed something subversive.





My sources? Any one of her speeches that harps on her Family Values philosophy will do.

Strippers are well known for giving lapdances to married men, BTW. Family Values proponents hate this more than anything else.

What do you think she would say about your membership here on Stripperweb? 'Family entertainment', this ain't.

Any woman who wants to ban Huckleberry Finn is going to call you a degenerate scumbag, spending hours each day on a pornographic website. Oh and this is pornography, to a Jesus Freak. There's pictures of naked women just a mouse click away from this page, where you are defending people who want that made a prosecutable offense.

Again, show me where she said anything even remotely close to "degenerate scumbag" or where she promised to curtail adult entertainment options.

She has a right to feel however she wants to feel about whatever she wants. she doesn't have to agree with what I do. We have that same right. I don't view her as a threat at all to anything I do.

She never proposed banning Huckleberry Finn either. She inquired at the behest of a constituent how one would go about banning certain books but ultimately did not try to ban any.

Djoser
09-08-2008, 12:46 PM
BUT in some of these supposed scientific cases, they are nothing more than a theory as well...

...but in fact (some of) the points they are making are baseless and uneducated.

This baseless and uneducated person looking at the supposedly scientific fossil doesn't realize that the fossil is just a theory. There are millions of other fossils that are just theory as well. God even hid them miles under the earth all over the entire earth, just in case we drilled there and found them, so He could Test us

bem401
09-08-2008, 12:57 PM
This baseless and uneducated person looking at the supposedly scientific fossil doesn't realize that the fossil is just a theory. There are millions of other fossils that are just theory as well. God even hid them miles under the earth all over the entire earth, just in case we drilled there and found them, so He could Test us

Look, the idea of evolutionary theory and what my (Catholic) religion teaches about God's role in the origin of man's existence are not at all contradictory. It just teaches that at some point God made man special by giving him a conscience and soul. I don't know if other religions are the same on this.

The Book Of Genesis is not meant to be taken literally, nor is much of the Bible so evolutionary theory is not contradicted by what the church teaches. I'm absolutely not advocating that Christianity be jammed down anyone's throat but still don't see what's wrong with mentioning that some people adhere to the theory of Intelligent Design. Mentioning Intelligent Design in no way diminishes evolutionary theory.

G-Real
09-08-2008, 01:02 PM
Myths are are things like Sasquatch or the Loch Ness Monster. Creationism is not a myth. It is a theory which really can't be proved one way or the other. Nothing more, nothing less. It is something people of faith ascribe to. I presume you are not a person of faith. Me, I'm sort of on the fence.

i was catholic, but, the hypocracy was something that I just couldn't keep looking over. Hell I was an alterboy (insert humor here). But the more that I began to think of it the more I drifted away.

I remember a CCD teacher being asked the question about the big-bang theory, and then she had to try to wrap it into genesis....





And you know this because......?


I don't, but, I am assuming this is what she is prescribing.....I just think that when they say they want Creationism taught in school, it really just a facade for Christianity.




Well, if those religions suddenly became prominent in our culture, maybe they'd be deserving of some mention when it came to thoeories on man's origin. Right now, we have Evolutionary Theory and the Intelligent Design spin on it.

But I thought this was a no-spin zone? :D How do you know Creationism and Evolution aren't wrong, but some small tribe has the right theory....we don't....we can't just go cherry picking our arguements.....or can we...

Djoser
09-08-2008, 01:02 PM
Ummm, giant turtles and aliens, I'm not sure how to respond to that. Do you seriously believe that some people actually think that we are on the back of a giant turtle?



Yes, millions of people believed that as fervently as Palin believes in talking snakes. People have believed a lot of things about how the earth was created, listing them all would take quite a bit of time in a comparative mythology class, where they all belong.

People actually believe in talking snakes, talking burning bushes, can you imagine that?

G-Real
09-08-2008, 01:04 PM
Myths are are things like Sasquatch or the Loch Ness Monster. Creationism is not a myth. It is a theory which really can't be proved one way or the other. Nothing more, nothing less. It is something people of faith ascribe to. I presume you are not a person of faith. Me, I'm sort of on the fence.




And you know this because......?



Well, if those religions suddenly became prominent in our culture, maybe they'd be deserving of some mention when it came to thoeories on man's origin. Right now, we have Evolutionary Theory and the Intelligent Design spin on it.


This baseless and uneducated person looking at the supposedly scientific fossil doesn't realize that the fossil is just a theory. There are millions of other fossils that are just theory as well. God even hid them miles under the earth all over the entire earth, just in case we drilled there and found them, so He could Test us

Djozer: Hope you like this...

sapphiregirl
09-08-2008, 01:05 PM
This baseless and uneducated person looking at the supposedly scientific fossil doesn't realize that the fossil is just a theory. There are millions of other fossils that are just theory as well. God even hid them miles under the earth all over the entire earth, just in case we drilled there and found them, so He could Test us



LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!


Creationism science fairs....now those are scary /:O

bem401
09-08-2008, 01:16 PM
i was catholic, but, the hypocracy was something that I just couldn't keep looking over. Hell I was an alterboy (insert humor here). But the more that I began to think of it the more I drifted away.

I'm a fallen-away catholic myself.





But I thought this was a no-spin zone? :D How do you know Creationism and Evolution aren't wrong, but some small tribe has the right theory....we don't....we can't just go cherry picking our arguements.....or can we...
but those are the two prevailing theories, at least in the part of the world. And yes, they could be wrong.

sapphiregirl
09-08-2008, 01:16 PM
Yes, millions of people believed that as fervently as Palin believes in talking snakes. People have believed a lot of things about how the earth was created, listing them all would take quite a bit of time in a comparative mythology class, where they all belong.

People actually believe in talking snakes, talking burning bushes, can you imagine that?




Creationism Science Fairs....not in my schools....scary


Elementary School Level:
1st Place: “My Uncle Is A Man Named Steve (Not A Monkey)”
Cassidy Turnbull (grade five) presented her uncle, Steve. She also showed photographs of monkeys and invited fairgoers to note the differences between her uncle and the monkeys. She tried to feed her uncle bananas, but he declined to eat them. Cassidy has conclusively shown that her uncle is no monkey.

2nd Place: “Pine Cones Are Complicated”
David Block and Trevor Murry (grades four) showed how specifically complicated pine cones are and how they reveal God’s design in nature.

Middle School Level:
1st Place: “Life Doesn’t Come From Non-Life”
Patricia Lewis (grade eight) did an experiment to see if life can evolve from non-life. Patricia placed all the non-living ingredients of life - carbon (a charcoal briquet), purified water, and assorted minerals (a multi-vitamin) - into a sealed glass jar. The jar was left undisturbed, being exposed only to sunlight, for three weeks. (Patricia also prayed to God not to do anything miraculous during the course of the experiment, so as not to disqualify the findings.) No life evolved. This shows that life cannot come from non-life through natural processes.

2nd Place: “Women Were Designed For Homemaking”
Jonathan Goode (grade seven) applied findings from many fields of science to support his conclusion that God designed women for homemaking: physics shows that women have a lower center of gravity than men, making them more suited to carrying groceries and laundry baskets; biology shows that women were designed to carry un-born babies in their wombs and to feed born babies milk, making them the natural choice for child rearing; social sciences show that the wages for women workers are lower than for normal workers, meaning that they are unable to work as well and thus earn equal pay; and exegetics shows that God created Eve as a companion for Adam, not as a co-worker.

High School Level:
1st Place: “Using Prayer To Microevolve Latent Antibiotic Resistance In Bacteria”
Eileen Hyde and Lynda Morgan (grades ten & eleven) did a project showing how the power of prayer can unlock the latent genes in bacteria, allowing them to microevolve antibiotic resistance. Escherichia coli bacteria cultured in agar filled petri dishes were subjected to the antibiotics tetracycline and chlorotetracycline. The bacteria cultures were divided into two groups, one group (A) received prayer while the other (B) didn’t. The prayer was as follows: “Dear Lord, please allow the bacteria in Group A to unlock the antibiotic-resistant genes that You saw fit to give them at the time of Creation. Amen.” The process was repeated for five generations, with the prayer being given at the start of each generation. In the end, Group A was significantly more resistant than Group B to both antibiotics.
2nd Place: “Maximal Packing Of Rodentia Kinds: A Feasibility Study”
Jason Spinter’s (grade twelve) project was to show the feasibility of Noah’s Ark using a Rodentia research model (made of a mixture of hamsters and gerbils) as a representative of diluvian life forms. The Rodentia were placed in a cage with dimensions proportional to a section of the Ark. The number of Rodentia used (58) was calculated using available Creation Science research and was based on the median animal size and their volumetric distribution in the Ark. The cage was also fitted with wooden dowels inserted at regular intervals through the cage walls, forming platforms which provided support for the Rodentia. Although there was little room left in the cage, all Rodentia were able to move just enough to ward off muscle atrophy. Food pellets and water were delivered to sub-surface Rodentia via plastic drinking straws inserted into the Rodentia-mass, which also served to allow internal air flow. Once a day, the cage was sprayed with water to cleanse any built-up waste. Additionally, the cage was suspended on bungee cords to simulate the rocking motion of a ship. The study lasted 30 days and 30 nights, with all Rodentia surviving at least long enough afterwards to allow for reproduction. These findings strongly suggest that Noah’s Ark could hold and support representatives of all antediluvian animal kinds for the duration of the Flood and subsequent repopulation of the Earth.

Honorable Mention:

“Geocentrism: Politically Incorrect” - Richard Cody (grade nine)
“Young Earth, Old Lies” - Melvin Knuth & Glenna Reher (grade eleven)
“Thermodynamics Of Hell Fire” - Tom Williamson (grade twelve)

G-Real
09-08-2008, 01:18 PM
but those are the two prevailing theories, at least in the part of the world.

I would say that creationism has more of a hold here in the US, perhaps some middle-eastern countries, assuming Muslims believe in genesis (i thought they had the same old-testament beliefs, I could be wrong though).

Also South/Central america where there is a larger christin devoutation.

if you look at europe, japan, where coincidentially they are advancing beyond us in science. Religion for the most part, doesn't enter into the sub-conscious as it does here.

bem401
09-08-2008, 01:19 PM
Yes, millions of people believed that as fervently as Palin believes in talking snakes. People have believed a lot of things about how the earth was created, listing them all would take quite a bit of time in a comparative mythology class, where they all belong.

People actually believe in talking snakes, talking burning bushes, can you imagine that?

Please send me a link on the "Giant Turtle Theory".

I'll repeat what I wrote a few posts back. The Bible is not meant to be taken literally, particularly the Old Testament.

Jay Zeno
09-08-2008, 01:33 PM
I totally agree with you, and I had this same argument with my overly religious father....BUT Sarah Palin would like it taught ALONGSIDE evolution. I don't feel it's wrong to teach multiple theories, b/c when it all comes down to it, there is no right or wrong answer. We simply do not know.Evolution is a science fact. There are theories of evolution and its dynamics, but the fact of evolution is as basic and important to understanding biology as the table of elements is to understanding chemistry.

Digestion happens. There are theories on how the body knows to produce certain enzymes and certain quantities of acid and change blood supply and all that stuff. We don't understand exactly how digestion happens. But there's no question that it does.

Evolution is the same way. It's been quantified, observed, dissected. It happens. There's no question. All the little bio dyamics going on - no, we don't know everything about all of that. But evolution is a fact.

Creationism: To say "God made it all happen" - you know, that may be true. But it's not science. It's not measurable, predictable, observable. Take it to the philosophy class.



And by the way, my Catholic grade school taught evolution.

Zia_Abq
09-08-2008, 01:37 PM
Actually it is VERY easily accessible, it's called the Health Dept. They have condoms free, and BC at a very cheap rate.

I am fiscally conservative, and I feel that BC should be available to everyone at any time for ANY reason.



Ah yes but the people you VOTE for do not feel the same and want and try all the time to eliminate those things being available at the Health Department..

Jay Zeno
09-08-2008, 01:45 PM
Please send me a link on the "Giant Turtle Theory".
Here's one better. The model of creation.

Zia_Abq
09-08-2008, 01:51 PM
I totally agree with you, and I had this same argument with my overly religious father....BUT Sarah Palin would like it taught ALONGSIDE evolution. I don't feel it's wrong to teach multiple theories, b/c when it all comes down to it, there is no right or wrong answer. We simply do not know.

Back to the matter at hand, if she had wanted to teach religious based creationism ONLY in public schools, I'd think she was quite the whackjob.


Problem is that she wants it taught in SCIENCE classes and unlike evolution which is a proven scientific fact creationism is a religious non provable concept. There is nothing and I do mean nothing scientific about it. Teaching of the that theory belong in religion classes NOT in science class.

And honestly do you really not believe that given the chance she would ban teaching of evolution from all public schools?

Consider this for a moment. In Colorado Springs there is a church group that takes kids to the local science museum and them that the dinosaurs never existed and that anyone who tries to tell them otherwise is working with the devil. They believe in creationism. That is what she wants taught in science class. Is that really what's best for the nation? I sure don't think so but apparently Palin supporters do and that is a very scary thought indeed.

Zia_Abq
09-08-2008, 02:05 PM
Yeah, my friends that got arrested in Daytona for trying to take their clothes off were being federally protected, alright!

So true. I once got arrested and charged as sexual predator because my pasties were considered flesh toned and thus violated the law. They were hot pink sequence hearts by the way. I got the charges reduced but it cost me over 5 grand.

And surprise, surprise clubs all over that area were getting busted for things like that as soon as a Republican candidate started running for Mayor. He was already in a some elected city office. Anyway prior it was centrist style Democrats running the show. Clubs were booming, dancers happy. Contact levels low, money high. After the Republican took over. Clubs were slow, contact went way up and money went way down.

So much for the republicans being good for business. Ha! What a farce that argument is. Hell even the stock market does better under Democrats. Yup, that is proven historical fact too! Want sources on that? No problemo ;)

sapphiregirl
09-08-2008, 02:32 PM
.






http://i37.tinypic.com/2010qhz.gif

francescadubois
09-08-2008, 07:35 PM
^^^:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Djoser
09-08-2008, 07:53 PM
Here's one better. The Flying Spaghetti Monster (http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/) model of creation.


:rotfl:


Those pastafarians are pretty funny, but they haven't found cheeses yet...

Hello_Kitty27
09-08-2008, 08:11 PM
Here's one better. The Flying Spaghetti Monster (http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/) model of creation.

I LOVE the flying spaghetti monster! That was hilarious. I was all over it when I first saw it. i think someone brought it up here actually. ;D

(My multi-quote isn't working, sorry)
Zia, I am not disagreeing with you, per se, what I disagree with about this topic of creationism being taught in school, is that she wants it as hardcore as everyone is suggesting. Every article I've looked up states that she thinks it should be available for debate. I personally don't see anything wrong with it....in some ways. I have found nothing to suggest that wants or supports anything saying that she wants ONLY creationsim taught, or that dinosaurs didn't exist, etc.

(although I do wonder what her take is on dinosaurs, now that you brought it up...)


I know in an earlier post, I brought up my brother's science book from his catholic school. As someone else mentioned, they were taught evolution in their catholic school. If I recall from mine, I think I was taught evolution out of the book, but creationsim verbally. But then again, years ago, it wasn't a huge issue like it is now. But you know who I blame for things like that? Hardcore liberals, like the people who fought to have the pledge of allegiance changed, etc. It was them that brought these issues to the forefront. Instead of just leaving well enough alone, they throw a hissy fit about this that and the other, the right-wingers end up retaliating with their own ideals and you go back and forth and this is where we end up. Everything has to be some big "politically correct" issue.


OK...I know I'm all over the place ...I seriously need some sleep....

Zia_Abq
09-08-2008, 08:26 PM
Zia, I am not disagreeing with you, per se, what I disagree with about this topic of creationism being taught in school, is that she wants it as hardcore as everyone is suggesting. Every article I've looked up states that she thinks it should be available for debate. I personally don't see anything wrong with it....in some ways. I have found nothing to suggest that wants or supports anything saying that she wants ONLY creationsim taught, or that dinosaurs didn't exist, etc.

(although I do wonder what her take is on dinosaurs, now that you brought it up...)






OK...I know I'm all over the place ...I seriously need some sleep....

That's cool. Get some sleep babe. I look forward to reading more about your views at a later time.

Dirty Ernie
09-08-2008, 08:33 PM
Actually the pledge (written in 1892) did not contain the words "under God" until 1954 through legislation introduced by a Democrat. There are groups now who are trying to restore the pledge to it's previous standard.

^^Just for clarification. I'm not disagreeing with your position.

CKXXX
09-08-2008, 08:39 PM
FSM is THE religion man...pastafarians UNITE!!!

And they have too discovered cheese..specifically parmesan!

Optimist
09-08-2008, 09:43 PM
That's because many people in this country don't learn. There's just not enough respect for knowing national and world history unvarnished. Otherwise, we wouldn't have to go over the same ground relearning civics lessons over and over.

Djoser
09-09-2008, 07:14 AM
I LOVE the flying spaghetti monster! That was hilarious. I was all over it when I first saw it. i think someone brought it up here actually. ;D

But you know who I blame for things like that? Hardcore liberals, like the people who fought to have the pledge of allegiance changed, etc. It was them that brought these issues to the forefront. Instead of just leaving well enough alone, they throw a hissy fit....

Rather like Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, etc., who were viewed naturally enough as hardcore radicals by the mother country.

The Pledge of Allegiance didn't used to require Americans to swear allegiance to a myth. Hardcore religious right types in the 50's changed it, instead of leaving well enough alone.


But this bickering and arguing is growing tiresome--especially given the fact that Sarah Palin would run screaming from anyone involved with the stripping world trying to offer support publicly.

And just from reading your signature (Hello_Kitty27) I think I would like you in person. So maybe we should just agree to disagree, and 'leave it well enough alone', lol!

kitana
09-09-2008, 03:00 PM
People actually believe in talking snakes... can you imagine that?

Yes!

It's called Parseltongue! Geesh, pick up a Harry Potter book would ya?!:P