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Eric Stoner
09-03-2008, 11:31 AM
Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHFY1otOWjQ) is a video from the 2nd Secessionist Convention. At about 6 minutes in, The vice chair of the Alaska Independence Party Dexter Clark says:

"Our current governor, we mentioned at the last conference, the one we were hoping would get elected, Sarah Palin, did get elected. There's a joke, she's a pretty good looking gal, there's a joke goes around we're the coldest state with the hottest governor. And there was a lot of talk about her moving up. She was an AIP member before she got the job as a mayor of a small town -- that was a non-partisan job. But you get along to go along -- she eventually joined the Republican Party, where she had all kinds of problems with their ethics, and well, I won't go into that. She also had about an 80% approval rating, and is pretty well sympathetic to her former membership."

Today's N.Y. Times featured a retraction as to Palin's "membership" in the AIP.
And btw, it's not exactly the John Birch Society.

Eric Stoner
09-03-2008, 11:33 AM
I totally agree. I watched the convention and I was NOT IMPRESSED it was almost funny.....horrible speeches.

Where are the young people who can really change our world.

Just a bunch of old farts who will do the same old thing to protect their own selfish interests.

That's exactly how I feel about folks like Charlie Rangel and Bob "Sheets" Byrd.

bem401
09-03-2008, 11:36 AM
By saying "ax to grind", I was not expressing approval or disapproval of their issues, only that they are very vocal for a group that comprises 5% or less of the population.

Actually, I am a member of a teachers' union and it bothers me to no end that some of my dues go towards supporting candidates I personally oppose.

By "typical" American, I guess I am referring to your average, white, middle-class, Christian, straight person. I am not implying anyone else is less American, just that they don't fit the mold.

And, Jay, white people comprise two-thirds of the country's population and an even higher percentage of registered voters, so they should be well-represented in any convention, particularly a Republican one, where 90% seems about right. Blacks are over-represented in the Democratic party since virtually all Blacks are democrats. They represent 12% of the population but more like 20% of the party.

And Sapphire, I heard a college professor from Chicago Law saying Obama wouldn't even acknowledge other professors ( full profs mind you, not guest lecturers like him ) who didn't embrace his positions. How is that someone who will be reaching across the aisle?

Eric Stoner
09-03-2008, 11:41 AM
By saying "ax to grind", I was not expressing approval or disapproval of their issues, only that they are very vocal for a group that comprises 5% or less of the population.

Actually, I am a member of a teachers' union and it bothers me to no end that some of my dues go towards supporting candidates I personally oppose.

By "typical" American, I guess I am referring to your average, white, middle-class, Christian, straight person. I am not implying anyone else is less American, just that they don't fit the mold.

And, Jay, white people comprise two-thirds of the country's population and an even higher percentage of registered voters, so they should be well-represented in any convention, particularly a Republican one, where 90% seems about right. Blacks are over-represented in the Democratic party since virtually all Blacks are democrats. They represent 12% of the population but more like 20% of the party.

And Sapphire, I heard a college professor from Chicago Law saying Obama wouldn't even acknowledge other professors ( full profs mind you, not guest lecturers like him ) who didn't embrace his positions. How is that someone who will be reaching across the aisle?

Funny you should say that because in a few years white folks are going to be in the MINORITY in this country. Blacks, Latinos and Asians together will outnumber "whitey". Get used to it.

Miss_Luscious
09-03-2008, 11:48 AM
Today's N.Y. Times featured a retraction as to Palin's "membership" in the AIP.
And btw, it's not exactly the John Birch Society.


Correct. However (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/02/politics/animal/main4409075.shtml):

"Not being registered as an AIP member did not keep some Alaskans from being supporters of the party and its aims. Jack Coghill, the lieutenant governor of Alaska from 1990 to 1994 and a candidate for governor in 1994 on the AIP ticket, told Mother Jones that being friendly with the AIP and a registered Republican was "common" in the 1990s. Might Palin had had a similar relationship with the party? Given her husband's long-time membership in the group, Palin was likely aware of the group's tenets. And in 2008, as governor, she submitted a welcoming video to the AIP convention in Fairbanks. "Your party plays an important role in our state's politics," she said. "I've always said that competition is so good, and that applies to political parties as well… We have a great promise: to be a self-sufficient state." She closed by saying, "Good luck on a successful and inspiring convention. Keep up the good work, and God bless you.""

sapphiregirl
09-03-2008, 11:49 AM
By saying "ax to grind", I was not expressing approval or disapproval of their issues, only that they are very vocal for a group that comprises 5% or less of the population.

Actually, I am a member of a teachers' union and it bothers me to no end that some of my dues go towards supporting candidates I personally oppose.

By "typical" American, I guess I am referring to your average, white, middle-class, Christian, straight person. I am not implying anyone else is less American, just that they don't fit the mold.

And, Jay, white people comprise two-thirds of the country's population and an even higher percentage of registered voters, so they should be well-represented in any convention, particularly a Republican one, where 90% seems about right. Blacks are over-represented in the Democratic party since virtually all Blacks are democrats. They represent 12% of the population but more like 20% of the party.

And Sapphire, I heard a college professor from Chicago Law saying Obama wouldn't even acknowledge other professors ( full profs mind you, not guest lecturers like him ) who didn't embrace his positions. How is that someone who will be reaching across the aisle?



The GOP is just a party of good old boys.....and they will always want to keep it that way. MCcain cannot even support issues like gay adoptions....even though there are THOUSANDS of unwanted kids in the USA.

I know gay parents of adopted kids who are 100X better parents than many straight couples I know.

McCain is SUDDENLY loving the idea of drilling for OIL..what a surprise.....HE is simply another Bush....It will be four more years of bickering, the same thing, and an angrier country on multiple issues. This country will not progress for the BETTER with Republicans back in the white house.

sapphiregirl
09-03-2008, 12:06 PM
Speaking of Sarah Palin....what are HER views on the economy and issues like Iran, Israel, and Iraq. I have not seen where she has voiced an opinion on those issues so I must be missing it.

Has she ever said what she would do about any of those things or is she just going to have a speech tonight about it that was prepared for her.

bem401
09-03-2008, 12:07 PM
Funny you should say that because in a few years white folks are going to be in the MINORITY in this country. Blacks, Latinos and Asians together will outnumber "whitey". Get used to it.

Believe me, I'm well aware of it.

Sapphire: I didn't say anything good or bad about gay folks. I just identified them as a liberal constituency. I would favor straight adoptive parents though, [U]all other things being equal[U].

Good old boys? How does Sarah Palin fit into that characterization?

McCain was wrong not to support drilling for oil from the get-go. It took $4/gallon gas to bring him around.

I don't see how you can be of the opinion that Obama will make things better. You employ the same strategy as the rest of the Dems. You avoid discussing him or the issues except in very vague terms, preferring instead to attack McCain's (many) shortcomings.

You also never addresses his reported unwillingness to reach across the aisle. mcCain has done this, often to the chagrin of conservatives. i challenge you to cite one instance where obama did the same.

Eric Stoner
09-03-2008, 12:12 PM
Hm, I can't go with that one, either. It's saying, "Where are the Dems who agree with the Repubs? Why aren't they allowed?" (I don't think there were many Democrat supporters at the Republican convention, either.)

Lieberman is no longer a Democrat.

I don't think much of the country supports our policy in Iraq, and you wouldn't expect the opposition party to support the policies of the prevailing party so much (although they both seem to agree that we need the boots in Afghanistan).

Are 50% of the Democratic delegates union members, really? If so, then I agree. That's out of whack.

According to the latest count, if you add up current or retired union members ( about 25% ) and current or retired NEA and AFT members ( another 25%) then about 50 % of all Dem delegates are current or retired union members.

Miss_Luscious
09-03-2008, 12:13 PM
You also never addresses his reported unwillingness to reach across the aisle. mcCain has done this, often to the chagrin of conservatives. i challenge you to cite one instance where obama did the same.

Okay. (http://mediamatters.org/items/200803280011)

And which which issues would you like Obama's stances on?

sapphiregirl
09-03-2008, 12:18 PM
Believe me, I'm well aware of it.

Sapphire: I didn't say anything good or bad about gay folks. I just identified them as a liberal constituency. I would favor straight adoptive parents though, [u]all other things being equal[u].

Good old boys? How does Sarah Palin fit into that characterization?

McCain was wrong not to support drilling for oil from the get-go. It took $4/gallon gas to bring him around.

I don't see how you can be of the opinion that Obama will make things better. You employ the same strategy as the rest of the Dems. You avoid discussing him or the issues except in very vague terms, preferring instead to attack McCain's (many) shortcomings.

You also never addresses his reported unwillingness to reach across the aisle. mcCain has done this, often to the chagrin of conservatives. i challenge you to cite one instance where obama did the same.


Sarah Palin is nothing but a pawn to win since mCCain is suddenly a Maverick....she is a bad gimmick.


Obama's speech last Thursday told it all....Besides Democrats don't exactly discriminate like Republicans do in the first place. Democrats don't have to bow down to the Religious Right in order to win- even if it means continuing to discrimnate.


Between Obama and McCain reaching accross the isle...My money in on Obama....I know they both have faults.

Laura Bush's speech last night was insulting....like Republicans are a bunch of do gooders....we blow 10 billion a month in Iraq but my friends benefits for his medical care have been cut at least 10% on all levels in his treatment for AIDS. Bush's comments on AIDS were insulting and innacurate.

Eric Stoner
09-03-2008, 12:24 PM
Okay. (http://mediamatters.org/items/200803280011)

And which which issues would you like Obama's stances on?

Any Senator can co-sponsor legislation. Obama's record for being "bi-partisan" is spotty to say the least. His voting record is 95% "anti-Bush" or 95% "liberal"; label it however you like.
Far more troubling is his behavior on major ethics legislation in the Senate where he clearly back-stabbed McCain. Originally a co-sponsor with McCain of major reform legislation with McCain and others, Obama left them all in the lurch when crunch-time came and voted AGAINST same. McCain felt so betrayed that he refused to speak to Obama for months.

doc-catfish
09-03-2008, 12:26 PM
Speaking as somebody who has never joined a politcal party, and intends to go to his grave as such, it amazes me how so many of you invest so much stock in brand name.

The reality of things is that there is no fundamental difference between the two parties anymore. Region actually plays a far greater role than party affiliation does. It not all that uncommon to see politicians in states where one party/ideological persuasion dominates, affiliate with the minority party just so they can take the fast track to the general election. Mayor Bloomberg in NYC is a good example of this. There's so shortage of blue state Republicans that are more ideologically liberal than the Democrats around my neck of the woods.

Eric Stoner
09-03-2008, 12:28 PM
Sarah Palin is nothing but a pawn to win since mCCain is suddenly a Maverick....she is a bad gimmick.


Obama's speech last Thursday told it all....Besides Democrats don't exactly discriminate like Republicans do in the first place. Democrats don't have to bow down to the Religious Right in order to win- even if it means continuing to discrimnate.


Between Obama and McCain reaching accross the isle...My money in on Obama....I know they both have faults.

Laura Bush's speech last night was insulting....like Republicans are a bunch of do gooders....we blow 10 billion a month in Iraq but my friends benefits for his medical care have been cut at least 10% on all levels in his treatment for AIDS. Bush's comments on AIDS were insulting and innacurate.

Actually Bush has done MORE to combat AIDS worldwide than Clinton ever did.

While the Republicans have to kow tow to the religious right; the Democrats have to pay homage to their own interest groups = radical feminists; Planned Parenthood; NOW ; unions ; the trial lawyers and a host of environmental groups from mainstream to quite radical.

Budai
09-03-2008, 12:29 PM
Far more troubling is his behavior on major ethics legislation in the Senate where he clearly back-stabbed McCain. Originally a co-sponsor with McCain of major reform legislation with McCain and others, Obama left them all in the lurch when crunch-time came and voted AGAINST same. McCain felt so betrayed that he refused to speak to Obama for months.


What's your reason for narrating this chain of events, ES? What's your point? How "troubling" is it in comparison to the "major ethics" driving our current domestic and global policies? These are not rhetorical questions, btw...

Eric Stoner
09-03-2008, 12:33 PM
Speaking as somebody who has never joined a politcal party, and intends to go to his grave as such, it amazes me how so many of you invest so much stock in brand name.

The reality of things is that there is no fundamental difference between the two parties anymore. Region actually plays a far greater role than party affiliation does. It not all that uncommon to see politicians in states where one party/ideological persuasion dominates, affiliate with the minority party just so they can take the fast track to the general election. Mayor Bloomberg in NYC is a good example of this. There's so shortage of blue state Republicans that are more ideologically liberal than the Democrats around my neck of the woods.

Twer it only true. There are substantial differences between the parties; especially with regard to economics and the proper role of government. The problem is that folks like me who are essentially "Classical Constitutional Liberals" have no place to go where we really feel comfortable. We believe in limited government and the right of people to be left alone. While far from perfect, WE haven't had a candidate since Reagan.

Miss_Luscious
09-03-2008, 12:35 PM
Any Senator can co-sponsor legislation. Obama's record for being "bi-partisan" is spotty to say the least. His voting record is 95% "anti-Bush" or 95% "liberal"; label it however you like.
Far more troubling is his behavior on major ethics legislation in the Senate where he clearly back-stabbed McCain. Originally a co-sponsor with McCain of major reform legislation with McCain and others, Obama left them all in the lurch when crunch-time came and voted AGAINST same. McCain felt so betrayed that he refused to speak to Obama for months.

So him working with a Republican senator to get legislation passed isn't working across the aisle? The what is? And what a novel concept, people agreeing with their party most of the time! That's appalling! McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time so I guess that argument goes both ways.

sapphiregirl
09-03-2008, 12:38 PM
Actually Bush has done MORE to combat AIDS worldwide than Clinton ever did.

While the Republicans have to kow tow to the religious right; the Democrats have to pay homage to their own interest groups = radical feminists; Planned Parenthood; NOW ; unions ; the trial lawyers and a host of environmental groups from mainstream to quite radical.


Environmental groups are bad? Please go live in the most polluted city in China for 2 years and then you can bash environmental groups who protect our natural resources.

Let me go get you a drink a water from certain places and watch you drink it....then you can bash environmentalists

I did not say worldwide about AIDS...I have never said anything bad about his work worldwide although it could have been BETTER. What is his excuse for here at HOME!

Radical Feminists...lol....LMAO!!!!!


Thanks for PROVING the Republican Party is still the same!

Eric Stoner
09-03-2008, 12:38 PM
What's your reason for narrating this chain of events, ES? What's your point? How "troubling" is it in comparison to the "major ethics" driving our current domestic and global policies? These are not rhetorical questions, btw...

It indicates that Obama is NOT a man of his word and can't be trusted. Even McCain's most partisan opponents in the Senate agree that he's an honorable man who keeps his word.

sapphiregirl
09-03-2008, 12:40 PM
It indicates that Obama is NOT a man of his word and can't be trusted. Even McCain's most partisan opponents in the Senate agree that he's an honorable man who keeps his word.


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!


He is probably running around with those Radical Feminists....maybe Palin can give them her gun that she loves to wave.


The Republican Party is SUCH A JOKE!

sapphiregirl
09-03-2008, 12:44 PM
It indicates that Obama is NOT a man of his word and can't be trusted. Even McCain's most partisan opponents in the Senate agree that he's an honorable man who keeps his word.



Talking about trusted...maybe MCCain can use that 10 billion a month we spend in Iraq to find those STILL missing weapons of mass destruction.

and you are worried about radical feminists? LMAO!

Miss_Luscious
09-03-2008, 12:46 PM
What is a radical feminist?

Eric Stoner
09-03-2008, 12:47 PM
Environmental groups are bad? Please go live in the most polluted city in China for 2 years and then you can bash environmental groups who protect or natural resources.

Let me go get you a drink a water from certain places and watch you drink it....then you can bash environmentalists

I did not say worldwide about AIDS...I have never said anything bad about his work worldwide although it could have been BETTER. What is his excuse for here at HOME!

Radical Feminists...lol....LMAO!!!!!


Thanks for PROVING the Republican Party is still the same!

I didn't say environmental groups are bad. I like clean air and clean water too.
But there are some enviro groups out there that don't want anyone eating meat; or wearing fur ( btw, I'm AGAINST fur-trapping ) or leather; in favor of confiscating cars; shutting down all nuclear power plants; oppose wind farms ( to protect birds too dumb to avoid the blades ) oppose solar farms ( supposedly would disturb delicate desert ecosystems); oppose hydro-electric dams ; oppose lumbering etc

As for "radical feminists" there are women who want abortion "rights" far beyond that guaranteed by Roe v.Wade up to and including infanticide..

sapphiregirl
09-03-2008, 12:49 PM
What is a radical feminist?


I dunno....A leftie with a vagina?

I just love how the Republican party loves to do that....so sad.

Eric Stoner
09-03-2008, 12:51 PM
Talking about trusted...maybe MCCain can use that 10 billion a month we spend in Iraq to find those STILL missing weapons of mass destruction.

and you are worried about radical feminists? LMAO!

Just a minute. I am NOT supporting McCain. Believe it or not, I'm still leaning towards Obama although my former enthusiasm for him has vanished.

I don't worry about "radical fems". Not unless they pass a law REQUIRING me to take them out to dinner or something.

Btw, I think,the WMD argument is far beyond passe.

BlindE
09-03-2008, 12:51 PM
As for "radical feminists" there are women who want abortion "rights" far beyond that guaranteed by Roe v.Wade up to and including infanticide..

Love straw "man" arguments. Eric, can we instead talk about the effectiveness of abstinence-only education programs in high school? Seems to be working like a charm in the Palin household.

doc-catfish
09-03-2008, 12:52 PM
Twer it only true. There are substantial differences between the parties; especially with regard to economics and the proper role of government.
But it is true, for the very reason I mentioned in the previous posts. Granted you're not going to see the lack of difference from these two orchestrated propaganda fests that have been on television the past couple weeks, but what the DNC and RNC want to show America isn't a terribly good representation of their party's rank and file. There are a lot of people in public office with one party's supposed ideals, yet wearing the other party's label.


The problem is that folks like me who are essentially "Classical Constitutional Liberals" have no place to go where we really feel comfortable. We believe in limited government and the right of people to be left alone.
Ehh, sounds like a libertarian to me. It amazes me how the media will only use the word "libertarian" when they:

1. Are referring to the Libertarian party.
2. Trying to describe people who want to do uber radical things that are politically unfeasible, like completely get rid of the public school system, turn every mile of our highways into toll roads, or completely legalize all drugs.

I mean, its like the major parties are scared that if people began to ever identify with the word, what it meant, and that you can have moderate tangents of it, just like liberalism and conservatism, the era of the two party system would be over.


WE haven't had a candidate since Reagan.
Is Bob Barr on the ballot in your state?

sapphiregirl
09-03-2008, 12:54 PM
Just a minute. I am NOT supporting McCain. Believe it or not, I'm still leaning towards Obama although my former enthusiasm for him has vanished.

I don't worry about "radical fems". Not unless they pass a law REQUIRING me to take them out to dinner or something.

Btw, I think,the WMD argument is far beyond passe.



I apologize then...my laptop has Vista and it's stuck in 8 point font or something....hard to read a bunch of posts sometimes or proof read my own.

Anyway...thats off topic.

Roxelle
09-03-2008, 12:57 PM
Seems to be working like a charm in the Palin household.

Bristol is a maverick just like her mom.

Eric Stoner
09-03-2008, 01:01 PM
But it is true, for the very reason I mentioned in the previous posts. Granted you're not going to see the lack of difference from these two orchestrated propaganda fests that have been on television the past couple weeks, but what the DNC and RNC want to show America isn't a terribly good representation of their party's rank and file. There are a lot of people in public office with one party's supposed ideals, yet wearing the other party's label.


Ehh, sounds like a libertarian to me. It amazes me how the media will only use the word "libertarian" when they:

1. Are referring to the Libertarian party.
2. Trying to describe people who want to do uber radical things that are politically unfeasible, like completely get rid of the public school system, turn every mile of our highways into toll roads, or completely legalize all drugs.

I mean, its like the major parties are scared that if people began to ever identify with the word, what it meant, and that you can have moderate tangents of it, just like liberalism and conservatism, the era of the two party system would be over.


Is Bob Barr on the ballot in your state?

Actually Libertarians are a little too radical for me. I'm , inter alia, a practical realist and many LIBERTARIAN doctrines are anything but. We NEED sensible regulation of things like banks and stock markets and the environment. We NEED a standing, professional military. Public schools are essential to democracy and are best left to local and state governments. I don't know about legalization but I certainly favor de-criminalizing most drugs. As for making all highways toll roads; that generally hasn't worked too well and the Canadian example with the infamous Rte. 407 is troubling to say the least. Built with taxpayer dollars it was sold for a relative pittance to a German company.

As for Bob Barr and Ron Paul, they are both more Constitutionally literate than either Obama or McCain. The problem is neither has a snowball's chance.

sapphiregirl
09-03-2008, 01:10 PM
Bristol is a maverick just like her mom.


LOL!


I have a BIG issue with Sarah Palins stance on the environment and climate change. For the life of me, I don't understand people who go after people fighting for clean water, clean air, diversity in natural resources and wildlife.

Last year I was at the Grand Canyon....you are supposed to be able to see so many miles at the Canyon ( I forget)...the days you are able to do that are becoming fewer and fewer. There is a camera that has been taking a picture at the same spot for years and years and years. Its sad what we are doing to the planet on many levels.

I go to the beach out here and I've never been able to leave without picking up a handfull of someone elses trash....and this is in protected state beaches where litter washes up.

Eric Stoner
09-03-2008, 01:15 PM
Love straw "man" arguments. Eric, can we instead talk about the effectiveness of abstinence-only education programs in high school? Seems to be working like a charm in the Palin household.

I have nothing against promoting abstinence for those too dumb or too religious or too forgetfull or too drunk to use birth control.

If by "Straw man" you're referring to partial birth abortions; the fact of the matter is that while fortunately rare and almost always medically necessary, the prcedure exists. And there are " feminist" or "radical pro-choicers" (call them whatever you like ) who support the right to abortion AT ANY TIME, for ANY REASON, right up to delivery. Even past the point of viability outside the womb. That's far beyond anything guaranteed by Roe v.Wade. Just to bring it a little closer to home, there are posters on S-web who support just that- a right to abort at ANY time, fetus be damned.

sapphiregirl
09-03-2008, 01:30 PM
Well, I guess Sarah Palin can run businesses into the ground.




Palin Scrubbing Turns Up an Undeclared Car Wash

Updated 7:28 p.m.
By Matthew Mosk
ST. PAUL -- In addition to being a mayor and raising four children, Sarah Palin found time for another venture in her Wasilla years -- she was part-owner of an Anchorage car wash.
Palin and husband Todd each held a 20 percent stake in Anchorage Car Wash LLC, according to state corporation records filed in 2004.
A review of Palin's gubernatorial disclosure filings indicates that she failed to report her stake in the company on the form that requires candidates for governor to disclose any interest in a nonpublicly traded company.
The car wash venture was not entirely smooth sailing. State records show the business ran into trouble with Alaska's division of corporations business and professional licensing after Palin became governor of the state in 2006.

A Feb. 11, 2007 letter to the governor's business partner advises that the car wash had "not filed its biennial report and/or paid its biennial fees," which were more than a year overdue.
The warning letter was written on state letterhead, (http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/pdf/warningletter_20070211.pdf) which carried Palin's name at the top, next to the state seal.

On April 3, 2007, the state went further and issued a "certificate of involuntary dissolution" because of the car wash's failure to file its report and pay state licensing fees.
Palin's gubernatorial disclosure filings also reveal her involvement in another failed startup -- a marketing business which was to go by the name Rouge Cou, which evidently is a literal French translation of "red neck." On the 2005 form, Palin describes the firm as one for which she secured a license but did not conduct any business.

Zia_Abq
09-03-2008, 01:38 PM
Since republicans went so crazy over the Rev. Wright church I wonder if they would extend the same outrage over Palin’s church. Somehow I doubt it but who knows. Let’s find out.

On the subject of candidates’ religious influences and how it may affect their world view and governing ability and choices.

Palin’s church preaches that if a person is a critic of Bush they will go to straight hell and that no one who voted for Kerry in 2004 can ever enter heaven either. She herself has been quoted as saying that the attacking of Iraq was a task commanded by God.

Here is a long article about it

Tauries
09-03-2008, 01:43 PM
If we think that a group of 90+% white people are representative o the "typical" American, then we need to get out more.

And by that rational... a group of 90+% black people representing the "typical" democrap voter and/or NObama supporters should get out also?

Eric Stoner
09-03-2008, 02:08 PM
Since republicans went so crazy over the Rev. Wright church I wonder if they would extend the same outrage over Palin’s church. Somehow I doubt it but who knows. Let’s find out.

On the subject of candidates’ religious influences and how it may affect their world view and governing ability and choices.

Palin’s church preaches that if a person is a critic of Bush they will go to straight hell and that no one who voted for Kerry in 2004 can ever enter heaven either. She herself has been quoted as saying that the attacking of Iraq was a task commanded by God.

Here is a long article about it

http://richarddawkins.net/article,3067,Palins-Church-May-Have-Shaped-Controversial-Worldview,Nico-Pitney-and-Sam-Stein-Huffington-Post

Which religious wackos do YOU prefer ? Palin's or Obama's ?

Eric Stoner
09-03-2008, 02:11 PM
Well, I guess Sarah Palin can run businesses into the ground.




Palin Scrubbing Turns Up an Undeclared Car Wash

Updated 7:28 p.m.
By Matthew Mosk
ST. PAUL -- In addition to being a mayor and raising four children, Sarah Palin found time for another venture in her Wasilla years -- she was part-owner of an Anchorage car wash.
Palin and husband Todd each held a 20 percent stake in Anchorage Car Wash LLC, according to state corporation records filed in 2004.
A review of Palin's gubernatorial disclosure filings indicates that she failed to report her stake in the company on the form that requires candidates for governor to disclose any interest in a nonpublicly traded company.
The car wash venture was not entirely smooth sailing. State records show the business ran into trouble with Alaska's division of corporations business and professional licensing after Palin became governor of the state in 2006.

A Feb. 11, 2007 letter to the governor's business partner advises that the car wash had "not filed its biennial report and/or paid its biennial fees," which were more than a year overdue.
The warning letter was written on state letterhead, (http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/pdf/warningletter_20070211.pdf) which carried Palin's name at the top, next to the state seal.

On April 3, 2007, the state went further and issued a "certificate of involuntary dissolution" because of the car wash's failure to file its report and pay state licensing fees.
Palin's gubernatorial disclosure filings also reveal her involvement in another failed startup -- a marketing business which was to go by the name Rouge Cou, which evidently is a literal French translation of "red neck." On the 2005 form, Palin describes the firm as one for which she secured a license but did not conduct any business.

Did you bother reading this ? She was an INVESTOR. The letters were addressed to HER Business Partner. You of course supported the same type of thoroughness in scrutinizing Hillary's finances and business dealings ?

Zia_Abq
09-03-2008, 02:12 PM
Speaking of Sarah Palin....what are HER views on the economy and issues like Iran, Israel, and Iraq. I have not seen where she has voiced an opinion on those issues so I must be missing it.

Has she ever said what she would do about any of those things or is she just going to have a speech tonight about it that was prepared for her.

On Iraq I have heard her have all of two whole opinions. One that she isn't all that interested and the second was that the war is the command of God. On Israel and Iran I have heard nada from her; probably because she isn't all that interested in things outside Alaska to begin with and therefore not very knowledgeable about those matters. That may also be why she just got her first passport LAST YEAR. It’s kind of sad to know that a potential VP has seen and knows less of the world than me or even my 12 year old niece.

Zia_Abq
09-03-2008, 02:17 PM
Which religious wackos do YOU prefer ? Palin's or Obama's ?

I prefer no religion in government but if I had to choose between these two I ‘d pick Obama's. Which do you prefer?

doc-catfish
09-03-2008, 02:28 PM
Actually Libertarians are a little too radical for me. I'm , inter alia, a practical realist and many LIBERTARIAN doctrines are anything but. We NEED sensible regulation of things like banks and stock markets and the environment. . .
You're using Libertarian with a capital L as in the Libertarian Party. I'm referring to the lowercase non proper less extreme version. Amuch more pragmatic mode of libertarian policy as in, "if there is no need for government involvement beyond the point its practical to be involved" then well....it shouldn't be involved. There is always going to be a need for some taxes, some authority, and a means via the military to defend our interests. The problem in recent years is that things on many fronts have gotten entirely too statist.


As for Bob Barr and Ron Paul, they are both more Constitutionally literate than either Obama or McCain. The problem is neither has a snowball's chance.
Because the two major parties and the media have rigged the system to ensure that, going so far as to try and keep Barr and Ralph Nader off the ballot in swing states. Require third parties be given equal time and institute instant runoff voting, and this would change.

francescadubois
09-03-2008, 02:41 PM
But maybe I should vote Republican...because I just watched this ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiQJ9Xp0xxU&eurl=http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/

I usually only read these threads but I have to say this was some of the funniest shit I've seen on YouTube.

"I'm voting republican because sarah palin has more experience with foreign policy than obama because she was governor of state that borders russia." HA!!! :rofl:

jester214
09-03-2008, 04:56 PM
That may also be why she just got her first passport LAST YEAR. It’s kind of sad to know that a potential VP has seen and knows less of the world than me or even my 12 year old niece.

So she knows about as much as the average american?

jester214
09-03-2008, 05:02 PM
Between Obama and McCain reaching accross the isle...My money in on Obama....I know they both have faults.

The only problem with that is McCain has already shown his willingness to reach across the aisle, Obama hasn't. Besides, he's so far to the left he would never consider going anywhere near the middle, let alone crossing it.

Zia_Abq
09-03-2008, 05:10 PM
So she knows about as much as the average american?


Maybe so but shouldn't the person a heartbeat away from being the "Leader of the Free World" know more about the world than the average joe/jane and not the same or LESS?

Miss_Luscious
09-03-2008, 05:55 PM
Oops! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrG8w4bb3kg&eurl=http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/) Two conservative commentators on MSNBC say what they really think about Palin as VP after they thought their mics were off. Here's (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/) a story on it as well.

G-Real
09-03-2008, 06:00 PM
I usually only read these threads but I have to say this was some of the funniest shit I've seen on YouTube.

"I'm voting republican because sarah palin has more experience with foreign policy than obama because she was governor of state that borders russia." HA!!! :rofl:

you could say that she has more foreign policy experience due to her being in a group that wanted to succeed from the US and become its own country. ;D

kitana
09-03-2008, 06:36 PM
Obama never went to a "Muslim school" and it was H I L L A R Y who suggested that he did during the primaries. He did attend a school in Indonesia alongside Muslim children. Big deal. So what ?
I'm starting to be more troubled by his association with Ayers which appears to run deeper and be more involved than just serving on a board together.

Which is exactly why I said all of it was bullshit to some extent, but the mass of idiots in this country don't take the time or effort to find the REAL TRUTH; they only like the bullshit.

I don't like the Ayers thing either, not to mention a few other things.

kitana
09-03-2008, 06:43 PM
Sarah Palin is nothing but a pawn to win since mCCain is suddenly a Maverick....she is a bad gimmick.


Obama's speech last Thursday told it all....Besides Democrats don't exactly discriminate like Republicans do in the first place. Democrats don't have to bow down to the Religious Right in order to win- even if it means continuing to discrimnate.


Between Obama and McCain reaching accross the isle...My money in on Obama....I know they both have faults.

Laura Bush's speech last night was insulting....like Republicans are a bunch of do gooders....we blow 10 billion a month in Iraq but my friends benefits for his medical care have been cut at least 10% on all levels in his treatment for AIDS. Bush's comments on AIDS were insulting and innacurate.


Surprise surprise surprise, yet MORE attack from you on McCain, and you have been given the chance to change ALL of our minds and tell us what Obama can do for us; and yet you can't. You have no idea; or at least no idea you are willing to share about what Obama will do, and continue to attack instead.

kitana
09-03-2008, 06:48 PM
Environmental groups are bad? Please go live in the most polluted city in China for 2 years and then you can bash environmental groups who protect our natural resources.



*sigh*

And yet MORE attack, and this time you are talking about a WHOLE different country to attack the Repubs with.

sapphiregirl
09-03-2008, 07:27 PM
*sigh*

And yet MORE attack, and this time you are talking about a WHOLE different country to attack the Repubs with.


You are a trip...I have the RNC on in the background and all the love to do is attack.


At least i don't support BIGOTS...like you...but I guess that goes along with your remarks towards my family yesterday