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kitana
09-18-2008, 03:03 PM
Actually the polar bears are adjusting rather well. They are smart and adaptive and will adjust their behavior to the shrinking polar ice. As I've spelled out, shooting wolves from copters is SICK and unecessary.

I'm going to watch the debates and they will probably factor in but Obama would have to implode for me to vote for McCain. I'm just starting to get this sneaky, creepy feeling that somehow, some way , McCain will squeak out a win.

I disagree, it might be "sick" but it is a nessacity, it's MUCH more sick and cruel to have moose and caribou herds killed and rural people starve, than shoot a few wolves from a plane.

And make no mistake, it's the Dept of F&W that is doing the aerial predatory management, not common citizens.

TheSexKitten
09-18-2008, 03:19 PM
I'm just starting to get this sneaky, creepy feeling that somehow, some way , McCain will squeak out a win.

Me too.

francescadubois
09-18-2008, 03:27 PM
I'm just starting to get this sneaky, creepy feeling that somehow, some way , McCain will squeak out a win.

Me three. :no: (smdh)

sapphiregirl
09-18-2008, 03:48 PM
Does she ever answer a question?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxHQ7HdiFWM

Paintbaby
09-18-2008, 07:45 PM
Dear Anti-Choice Menz of the World and of This Thread~

No uterus, no opinion!

Seriously, STFU about abortion. When you have uteruses that can grow things in them, THEN you get to have an opinion, mmmmkay? Until then, watch where you spill your seed. Because a woman's body is HERS to take care of, any way she sees fit. So if abortion is such a horror to you, then watch where you put it. Or don't have sex. Because abstinence works both ways, yes?

Abortion is a WOMEN'S HEALTH ISSUE, geddit? Because our bodies carry the pregnancies, yes? Is it clear yet?

Pull your collective head out of your collective ass and answer the clue phone---it's for you!

Sweet Jeebus, but the whining of MRA (Mens Rights Activists) types with their giant senses of entitlement to women's bodies galls the everlovin' fuck out of me.

Carry on.

Richard_Head
09-18-2008, 08:00 PM
Now she seems to think it's a Palin/McCain ticket.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZKQDyL5gzc

sapphiregirl
09-18-2008, 08:14 PM
Now she seems to think it's a Palin/McCain ticket.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZKQDyL5gzc




LMAO and scary at the same time....She's got her eye on McCain's chair.

francescadubois
09-18-2008, 08:39 PM
Dear Anti-Choice Menz of the World and of This Thread~

No uterus, no opinion!

Seriously, STFU about abortion. When you have uteruses that can grow things in them, THEN you get to have an opinion, mmmmkay? Until then, watch where you spill your seed. Because a woman's body is HERS to take care of, any way she sees fit. So if abortion is such a horror to you, then watch where you put it. Or don't have sex. Because abstinence works both ways, yes?

Abortion is a WOMEN'S HEALTH ISSUE, geddit? Because our bodies carry the pregnancies, yes? Is it clear yet?

Pull your collective head out of your collective ass and answer the clue phone---it's for you!

Sweet Jeebus, but the whining of MRA (Mens Rights Activists) types with their giant senses of entitlement to women's bodies galls the everlovin' fuck out of me.

Carry on.

Thank you!!! :thanx: :highfive: :yes:

francescadubois
09-18-2008, 08:40 PM
Now she seems to think it's a Palin/McCain ticket.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZKQDyL5gzc

Yeah, but who ISN'T treatin this like the Palin/McCain ticket? :thinking:

I watched this live today, and they said that some people left right after her speech and didn't even care about seeing McCain.

Hold on to your ovaries, ladies... :'(

ahmeerah
09-18-2008, 09:05 PM
Me three. :no: (smdh)

I've been getting the same gut feeling. Makes me sad. I feel like going with the Republicans will be a horrible move for this country. Palin has become a rockstar. I HATE saying this but because of her appearance and charisma, a lot of middle-of-the-road caucasian women (not the ones on SW!) look up to her. They're even buying her eyewear (according to cnn).

Are Americans that stupid and so easily influenced? Palin has definitely become a rockstar but she stands for things that I, personally, can't stand and are anti-progress imo.

francescadubois
09-18-2008, 09:09 PM
I've been getting the same gut feeling. Makes me sad. I feel like going with the Republicans will be a horrible move for this country. Palin has become a rockstar. I HATE saying this but because of her appearance and charisma, a lot of middle-of-the-road caucasian women (not the ones on SW!) look up to her. They're even buying her eyewear (according to cnn).

Are Americans that stupid and so easily influenced? Palin has definitely become a rockstar but she stands for things that I, personally, can't stand and are anti-progress imo.

I think you hit the nail on the head, honey. God knows what is next for this country if they win. I'm an independent but I couldn't IMAGINE the Republicans getting in office for another 4-8 years. Goddammit I'm scared.

sapphiregirl
09-18-2008, 09:16 PM
Well, if you don't agree with her...she doesn't give a flip.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2UgIzti6HI

sapphiregirl
09-18-2008, 10:33 PM
Actually the polar bears are adjusting rather well. They are smart and adaptive and will adjust their behavior to the shrinking polar ice. As I've spelled out, shooting wolves from copters is SICK and unecessary.

I'm going to watch the debates and they will probably factor in but Obama would have to implode for me to vote for McCain. I'm just starting to get this sneaky, creepy feeling that somehow, some way , McCain will squeak out a win.



Her environmental policies SUCK and it goes a lot deeper than bears and wolves.

Sarah Palin's dead lake

By promoting runaway development in her hometown, say locals, Palin has "fouled her own nest" -- and that goes for the lake where she lives.
By David Talbot
Sep. 19, 2008 | Every morning she's at home here, Sarah Palin wakes up to a postcard view from her lakeside home. Out the windows of her two-story wood-framed house stretch the serene, birch-lined waters of Lake Lucille. Ducks go gliding by the red-and-white Piper Cub floatplane docked outside. With the snow-frosted Chugach and Talkeetna mountains looming in the distance, the scene seems to define the Alaska that Palin celebrates: rugged, majestic, unspoiled.
And, yet, the lake Sarah Palin lives on is dead.
"Lake Lucille is basically a dead lake -- it can't support a fish population," said Michelle Church, a Mat-Su Valley borough assembly member and environmentalist. "It's a runway for floatplanes."
Palin recently told the New Yorker magazine that Alaskans "have such a love, a respect for our environment, for our lands, for our wildlife, for our clean water and our clean air. We know what we've got up here and we want to protect that, so we're gonna make sure that our developments up here do not adversely affect that environment at all. I don't want development if there's going to be that threat to harming our environment."
But as mayor of her hometown, say many local critics, Palin showed no such stewardship.
"Sarah's legacy as mayor was big-box stores and runaway growth," said Patty Stoll, a retired Wasilla schoolteacher who once worked in the same school with Palin's parents, Chuck and Sally Heath. "The truth is, Wasilla is just plain ugly, it's not a pleasant place to live. It's not thought out. And that's a shame.
"Sarah fouled her own nest, and I can't understand why. I hate to think it was simply greed or ambition."
Among the environmental casualties of Wasilla's frenzied development was Palin's own front yard, Lake Lucille. The lake was listed as "impaired" in 1994 by the Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation, and it still carries that grim label. State environmental officials say that leaching sewer lines and fertilizer runoff caused an explosion of plant growth in the lake, which sucked the oxygen out of the water and led to periodic fish kills.
"Sarah," a recent biography of Palin by Kaylene Johnson, features a photo of a beaming Palin, sitting in a rowboat on Lake Lucille clutching a fishing rod. But, according to local fishermen, the Republican vice-presidential candidate would have to be very lucky to reel in something edible.
The Alaska Fish and Game Department dutifully stocks the lake with coho salmon and rainbow trout each year -- but the fish don't last long.
Fishing on the lake "was tough," reported Alaska fishing guide Carlyle Telford on his Web site when he tried his luck on Lake Lucille last year, "because the vegetation is decaying and floating. When you retrieve every cast, the fly comes back with crud on it."
In a recent phone conversation, Telford said he hasn't returned to Lake Lucille since then. "I think the lake's pretty dead," he said. "That's why I haven't been back."
Wasilla, where Palin grew up and still resides, sprawls between two lakes -- Lucille and Wasilla Lake. Cottonwood Creek, which flows in and out of Wasilla Lake, has also been labeled "impaired" by state environmental officials, after foam was detected on the water surface and subsequent testing found excessive concentrations of fecal coliform bacteria.
The two lakes are the town jewels, the only eye relief along a harrowing corridor of strip malls, big-box stores and fast-food drive-throughs that is Wasilla. "Lord, help me get through Wasilla," reads one Alaska bumper sticker.
The population in Mat-Su Valley began booming in the 1970s with the Alaska oil pipeline and the influx of oil workers from Texas and Oklahoma. But while some valley towns tried to control growth -- like nearby Palmer, which was originally settled by Midwest farmers as part of a Roosevelt social experiment in the 1930s -- Wasilla took a frontier, boom-town approach. Soon the Parks Highway, which cuts straight through Wasilla, and its arteries were lined with a chaotic bazaar of quickie espresso shacks, moose-stuffing taxidermists, Bible churches, gun stores, tattoo and piercing parlors, mattress barns and the inevitable box stores with their football-field parking lots.
John Stein, Palin's predecessor as Wasilla mayor, tried gamely to get a handle on the commercial free-for-all. He made an effort to restore the health of Lake Lucille, which, he said, "was turning into a bog."
"We brought up a scientist to study both lakes," Stein recalled. "We also worked with the state to filter storm drainage from the highway."
Controlling runoff from the six-lane highway is a key to saving the lakes in Wasilla. Other cities have their industrial pollution problems; Wasilla has highway pollution. "Anything that comes off an automobile -- oil, antifreeze, de-icing agents, heavy metals -- all of that can run off into the lakes when it rains," observed Archie Giddings, Wasilla's public works director.
But while Mayor Stein tried to impose some reason on Wasilla's helter-skelter development, and its growing pressures on Mat-Su Valley's environmental treasures, when Sarah Palin took his place, she quickly announced, "Wasilla is open for business."
"That's for sure," Church said. "Sarah was so eager for big-box stores to move in that she allowed Fred Meyer to build right on Wasilla Lake, and her handpicked successor, Dianne Keller, has done the same with Target."
Under Mayor Palin's reign, Fred Meyer, an emporium that sells everything from groceries to gold watches to gardening tools, lost no time in leveling a stand of trees overlooking the lake for its big-box store. When Fred Meyer applied for permission to pump the storm drainage from its parking lot -- with all the usual automobile sludge -- into the lake, outraged citizens finally cried enough.
"We mobilized public opposition," said Church, who led the Friends of Mat-Su, a pro-planning group, at the time. "We forced them to put in ditches and grassy swales to catch the runoff.
"Sarah was such a great cheerleader for Wasilla, but she did nothing to protect its beauty. She'd go to these Chamber of Commerce meetings and say, 'Wasilla is the most beautiful place in the world!' And we'd just sit there gagging."
A city official in nearby Palmer, who has lived in the Mat-Su Valley his whole life, sadly admitted: "Sarah sent the growth into overdrive. And now they're choking on traffic and sprawl, all built on their ignorance and greed.
"I try to avoid driving to Wasilla so I won't get depressed," added the official, who asked for his name to be withheld, to avoid Palin's "wrath."
"You get visually mugged when you drive through there. I take the long way, through the back roads, just to avoid it."
Wasilla City Council member Dianne Woodruff hears the same lament about her town all the time. "Everywhere in Alaska, you hear people say, 'We don't want to be another Wasilla.' We're not just the state's meth capital, we're the ugly box-store capital. Was Sarah a good steward of this beautiful valley? No. I think it comes from her lack of experience and awareness of other places, how other cities try to preserve what makes them attractive and livable.
"The frontier mentality has prevailed for so long in Mat-Su Valley -- the feeling that 'you're not going to tell me what to do with my land,'" added Woodruff. "That's fine as long as you have endless open space. But when you start to fill in as a city, you can end up with a sprawling mess. With million-dollar homes next to gravel pits -- and dead lakes."
In recent years, after Palin's departure from City Hall, Wasilla has been "changing and learning," according to Woodruff. The city has taken steps to control toxic runoff into its two lakes.
But Wasilla still doesn't test the lakes' water quality -- that's left up to volunteer groups, which periodically take samples from the lakes, according to city officials.
Why is there no official effort to test the local waters?
"That's a good question," said Wasilla public works chief Giddings, after a long, thoughtful pause. "I guess we're still ahead of the curve. We haven't seen huge concerns about the lakes yet."
Giddings acknowledged that there has been some public concern about swimming in the lakes, but not enough to prompt the city to monitor the water quality. If the public did start complaining about skin rashes, diarrhea and other health problems, "the state would probably step in," he added.
Would Giddings let his own children swim in Wasilla's lakes? "Yes," he said.
But Laura Eldred, an environmental program specialist with the Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation, offered a more qualified response. She would swim in the local lakes, but would "take the usual hygiene precautions," without specifying what those measures were.
"Sarah did nothing to protect our lakes; in fact, she obstructed efforts to improve our water quality," said city watchdog Anne Kilkenny. The property surrounding Wasilla's two lakes is privately owned, complicating the city's efforts to protect these natural treasures. While her predecessor, Mayor Stein, moved to incorporate the homes surrounding the two lakes -- like the Palin family residence -- so the city could control runoff from the dwellings, Palin campaigned for "no more annexation."
"Sarah hasn't traveled outside of Alaska much," said Kilkenny. "She hasn't seen dead lakes and rivers."
Now Palin can see one right out her window.


-- By David Talbot

Miss_Luscious
09-19-2008, 05:13 AM
I'm just starting to get this sneaky, creepy feeling that somehow, some way , McCain will squeak out a win.


Me too.


Me three. :no: (smdh)


I've been getting the same gut feeling. Makes me sad.

No no no, don't worry:

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3842/barackgotthiswh1.th.jpg (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=barackgotthiswh1.jpg)



Plus, things are looking up, even in the electoral college:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1520/0918bigmapyx5.th.png (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0918bigmapyx5.png)
And here's a link (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/obama-pulls-ahead-in-electoral-college.html)to explain that graphic.

bem401
09-19-2008, 05:56 AM
Yeah, Obama wants to kill babies.

Please shut the fuck up.

The Born Alive Infants Protection Act was redundant as there are (and were) already statutes in place forbidding the killing of children from the moment of birth. BAIPA amended them to define "born alive", specifically adding the language:

"at any stage of development"
and
"regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction occurs as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section, or induced abortion"

Democrats at both the state and federal levels opposed this bill because of the obvious consequence that if during an abortion the fetus was removed from the mother, it would no longer be possible to destroy it - even if it was a three-month old fish thing.

The language that was added later, which made it acceptable to federal Democrats, was:

"Nothing in this section shall be construed to affirm, deny, expand, or contract any legal status or legal right applicable to any member of the species homo sapiens at any point prior to being "born alive" as defined in this section."

In a number of states, including Illinois, the local Democratic parties decided this wasn't sufficient to prevent the legislation from endangering Roe v Wade. This was not some sort of "disgusting" attempt at "leaving babies born alive to die".

Here is Obama's explanation for opposing the bill. (http://thepage.time.com/2008/08/16/cbns-brody-gets-hot-interview-with-obama-at-saddleback/)

Your link had nothing to do with topic.

bem401
09-19-2008, 06:01 AM
Of course it does, although I wonder why you place the life of a non-sentient embryo above that of a woman, and would like to imbue that embryo with more rights than anyone else has.

No one else has the right to use the body of an unwilling person, not even for survival. I can't just demand your kidney to save my life, even though you're likely to survive the procedure and you only need one. If you decide it's too inconvenient to give it to me, you have that right, even at the cost of my life. So I wonder why you think embryos are so much more valuable than actual people?

Where did I place the fetus' life above that of the mother?

And your second paragraph is apples and oranges. You're comparing saving a life to not taking one.

Miss_Luscious
09-19-2008, 06:08 AM
Your link had nothing to do with topic.

It was supposed to be him explaining his opposition to the bill but I don't know why the website shows another clip. You can plainly see what it was supposed to be. I'm sure you can find another clip if you wanted. I'm done with this subject and I'm especially done with your nonsense.

kdogg247
09-19-2008, 06:49 AM
Are Americans that stupid and so easily influenced?


I believe the answer is Yes.

Eric Stoner
09-19-2008, 07:50 AM
As Veep Sarah Palin would have zero effect on abortion rights. As Prez her influence would be limited to appointing judges who might or might not overturn Roe v. Wade. In the worst case scenario where is overturned and not just modified, the issue would return to the various states. Some would undoubtedly outlaw abortion ( S. Dakota, Kansas, several Southern states); some would probably trim it back and most would continue to permit most abortions.

One of the fundamental flaws with "Roe" is that it usurped a legislative function.
The number of states permitting abortion pre- Roe was growing. We are about the only country that permits abortion yet still has this interminable debate over the issue. Canada doesn't. A primary reason for that is that abortion was legalized by the Canadian Parliament; not the courts. By elected representatives and not by appointed judges.

Eric Stoner
09-19-2008, 08:52 AM
I disagree, it might be "sick" but it is a nessacity, it's MUCH more sick and cruel to have moose and caribou herds killed and rural people starve, than shoot a few wolves from a plane.

And make no mistake, it's the Dept of F&W that is doing the aerial predatory management, not common citizens.

Moose- muffins ! It is NOT necessary. All that needs to be done is to NOT issue hunting permits to non-residents of Alaska who go to Alaska for the "sport" of shooting moose and caribou. That way actual residents of Alaska both human and lupine will ALL have plenty of moose and caribou.

Yekhefah
09-19-2008, 08:59 AM
Where did I place the fetus' life above that of the mother?

You placed it above her rights to her own body and self-determination, and also wish to imbue it with more rights to her body than she has. Why? What is it about the embryo or fetus that makes it so much more valuable than an actual person that you would give it MORE rights than a person has?


And your second paragraph is apples and oranges. You're comparing saving a life to not taking one.

And the embryo exists in a vacuum, I suppose? By "saving its life," you do realize that you negate the bodily integrity of an unwilling woman who must risk her own life and health to gestate it? Why should the fetus be able to use the body of an unwilling person when no one else on earth has that right, not even to save lives?

Oh yeah. Duh. Because no fetus will ever need to use YOUR unwilling body, that's why.

Eric Stoner
09-19-2008, 09:50 AM
You placed it above her rights to her own body and self-determination, and also wish to imbue it with more rights to her body than she has. Why? What is it about the embryo or fetus that makes it so much more valuable than an actual person that you would give it MORE rights than a person has?



And the embryo exists in a vacuum, I suppose? By "saving its life," you do realize that you negate the bodily integrity of an unwilling woman who must risk her own life and health to gestate it? Why should the fetus be able to use the body of an unwilling person when no one else on earth has that right, not even to save lives?

Oh yeah. Duh. Because no fetus will ever need to use YOUR unwilling body, that's why.

Just a moment please. What do YOU suggest should be done with a fully formed baby born alive during a botched late term abortion ? Fortunately, it is a very rare occurrence but it has been known to happen. So what ought to be done ? Just let it die ? Actively kill it ?

TheSexKitten
09-19-2008, 10:02 AM
Of course it does, although I wonder why you place the life of a non-sentient embryo above that of a woman, and would like to imbue that embryo with more rights than anyone else has.

No one else has the right to use the body of an unwilling person, not even for survival. I can't just demand your kidney to save my life, even though you're likely to survive the procedure and you only need one. If you decide it's too inconvenient to give it to me, you have that right, even at the cost of my life. So I wonder why you think embryos are so much more valuable than actual people?

Oh snap the logic is beautiful! :yes:

Yekhefah
09-19-2008, 10:13 AM
Just a moment please. What do YOU suggest should be done with a fully formed baby born alive during a botched late term abortion ? Fortunately, it is a very rare occurrence but it has been known to happen. So what ought to be done ? Just let it die ? Actively kill it ?

I'm sorry, what the hell has that got to do with the conversation?

Eric Stoner
09-19-2008, 11:22 AM
I'm sorry, what the hell has that got to do with the conversation?

I just asked you a simple question. Why are you avoiding answering it ?

Miss_Luscious
09-19-2008, 11:32 AM
Just a moment please. What do YOU suggest should be done with a fully formed baby born alive during a botched late term abortion ? Fortunately, it is a very rare occurrence but it has been known to happen. So what ought to be done ? Just let it die ? Actively kill it ?

That doesn't matter. There are laws which require life saving procedures in that circumstance.

Eric Stoner
09-19-2008, 12:26 PM
That doesn't matter. There are laws which require life saving procedures in that circumstance.

Fine. Then the question is who gets stuck with the child ? What if the " birth mother " decides that she wants it after all ?

sapphiregirl
09-19-2008, 12:27 PM
Moose- muffins ! It is NOT necessary. All that needs to be done is to NOT issue hunting permits to non-residents of Alaska who go to Alaska for the "sport" of shooting moose and caribou. That way actual residents of Alaska both human and lupine will ALL have plenty of moose and caribou.




She also wants to take away the ability of Alaskans to vote on the subject of aerial shooting.


Hell, she cannot even protect beluga whales.

Alaska's Cook Inlet beluga whales are a unique group of white whales whose numbers have dramatically declined in the past two decades due to pressures ranging from pollution to increased ship traffic. Governor Palin opposes the listing of the Cook Inlet beluga whales, citing the listing as a threat to oil and gas development, despite their genetic uniqueness and the fact that their numbers have decreased from 1,300 in the 1980s to about 350 today.

Eric Stoner
09-19-2008, 12:50 PM
She also wants to take away the ability of Alaskans to vote on the subject of aerial shooting.


Hell, she cannot even protect beluga whales.

Alaska's Cook Inlet beluga whales are a unique group of white whales whose numbers have dramatically declined in the past two decades due to pressures ranging from pollution to increased ship traffic. Governor Palin opposes the listing of the Cook Inlet beluga whales, citing the listing as a threat to oil and gas development, despite their genetic uniqueness and the fact that their numbers have decreased from 1,300 in the 1980s to about 350 today.

I'm not a fan of Palin for a LOT of reasons but not every case of development is cut and dried. Sometimes you have to sensibly balance economic and enviromental concerns.

Miss_Luscious
09-19-2008, 12:54 PM
Fine. Then the question is who gets stuck with the child ? What if the " birth mother " decides that she wants it after all ?

If the mother does not want the child, the child goes the the State. If she decides she wants it, it goes home with her. What are you getting at because those are common sense questions.

sapphiregirl
09-19-2008, 12:54 PM
I'm not a fan of Palin for a LOT of reasons but not every case of development is cut and dried. Sometimes you have to sensibly balance economic and enviromental concerns.



Aerial Hunting is not done to feed starving Alaskans.



Another Palin Falsehood...
"...this is about feeding Alaskans"
--Palin spokesperson
If that's true Governor Palin...

Why are sport hunter groups the biggest advocates of aerial hunting as opposed to advocates for the poor or hungry?
Why does the Palin administration allow out of state hunters to hunt and directly compete with rural hunters for supposed limited resources in most of the areas where aerial hunting is done?
Why, in most of the areas where aerial hunting is done, are a majority of the moose taken by urban and non-resident hunters instead of true subsistence hunters?
Why does Palin oppose what is called “rural preference” which would give true rural subsistence hunters priority access over sport hunters to the areas where aerial hunting is conducted?Aerial hunting is done by private citizens flown by private pilots in private planes. They get to keep and sell the skins of the wolves they kill. Some even pose for traditional hunting trophy shots.

sapphiregirl
09-19-2008, 01:15 PM
The Republican campaign is turning into such a joke....Well, Sarah Palin brags about getting a D in macroeconomics.


I love Rachel Maddow......



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2NCeEWWRMQ

sapphiregirl
09-19-2008, 01:28 PM
NBC finally waking up and calling out all the lies the Republicans are spitting out about their campaign and Sarah Palin.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpuo45IbgIA

bem401
09-19-2008, 06:36 PM
You placed it above her rights to her own body and self-determination, and also wish to imbue it with more rights to her body than she has. Why? What is it about the embryo or fetus that makes it so much more valuable than an actual person that you would give it MORE rights than a person has?

I'm not giving it more rights. I'm just saying she shouldn't be given the right to destroy it. The fetus does not generally place the mother's life at risk. In those cases, there is no problem.




And the embryo exists in a vacuum, I suppose? By "saving its life," you do realize that you negate the bodily integrity of an unwilling woman who must risk her own life and health to gestate it? Why should the fetus be able to use the body of an unwilling person when no one else on earth has that right, not even to save lives?

The time the woman should have been unwilling was before she got pregnant. I'm of the opinion she has an obligation once she helps create that fetus. And your last sentence is laughable. You make it sound like the fetus is some parasite that invaded her body.


Oh yeah. Duh. Because no fetus will ever need to use YOUR unwilling body, that's why.

This has nothing to do with the merits of the argument. There are plenty of women and men who feel strongly on either side of the issue.

CKXXX
09-19-2008, 08:00 PM
You make it sound like the fetus is some parasite that invaded her body.
.

It IS a parasite until it is born.

parasite


1 : a person who exploits the hospitality of the rich and earns welcome by flattery
2 : an organism living in, with, or on another organism in parasitism (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parasitism)

3 : something that resembles a biological parasite in dependence on some thing else for existence or support without making a useful or adequate return



Even my pregnant friends(who WANT to have their babies) refer to the fetus as a parasite. It leeches nutrients and life off the host(the female) until it is born and the cord is cut.

So by choosing the rights of a parasite to attempt to live over the rights off a female to NOT be a host is insane.

And AGAIN...sex is not just for procreation anymore. Those of us who do not want children take precautions against it. Does it always work? No. But I'll be DAMNED if I'll stop having sex with my husband because I dont want children.

If you dont like abortion....dont have one. But dont tell me what to do with MY body.

I live for the day we have the ability to take the growing cells and transplant them into another host. I wonder how many pro-lifers will step up to host the parasite.

Bob Cox
09-19-2008, 08:15 PM
I haven't read this thread, it's too long. :D

But here's one good thing about Sarah Palin. ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=user&v=C0kGc6UEGVc

sapphiregirl
09-20-2008, 12:01 AM
Keith Olbermann is so freaking funny....He's making a donation to charity each time Sarah Palin tells a lie....He's going to be broke...lol

sapphiregirl
09-20-2008, 12:32 AM
Damn....Sarah Palin the mother of a special needs child vetoed funds for the Special Olympics in Alaska.....Maybe Biden can ask her about that in the debates.

tsk tsk tsk....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erBgyXAGGwk&feature=related

Eric Stoner
09-20-2008, 01:51 PM
Aerial Hunting is not done to feed starving Alaskans.



Another Palin Falsehood...
"...this is about feeding Alaskans"
--Palin spokesperson
If that's true Governor Palin...

Why are sport hunter groups the biggest advocates of aerial hunting as opposed to advocates for the poor or hungry?
Why does the Palin administration allow out of state hunters to hunt and directly compete with rural hunters for supposed limited resources in most of the areas where aerial hunting is done?
Why, in most of the areas where aerial hunting is done, are a majority of the moose taken by urban and non-resident hunters instead of true subsistence hunters?
Why does Palin oppose what is called “rural preference” which would give true rural subsistence hunters priority access over sport hunters to the areas where aerial hunting is conducted?Aerial hunting is done by private citizens flown by private pilots in private planes. They get to keep and sell the skins of the wolves they kill. Some even pose for traditional hunting trophy shots.

I wish Olberman gave me a donation every time someone deliberately misreads
one of my posts. I OPPOSE WOLF HUNTING PERIOD ! On foot; from a helicopter; on snowmobiles; from hot-air balloons. Leave the wolfies alone !

sapphiregirl
09-20-2008, 02:02 PM
I wish Olberman gave me a donation every time someone deliberately misreads
one of my posts. I OPPOSE WOLF HUNTING PERIOD ! On foot; from a helicopter; on snowmobiles; from hot-air balloons. Leave the wolfies alone !


Just because I posted that doesn't mean I thought you were for aerial wolf hunting. Good God no one misread anything!

Miss_Luscious
09-21-2008, 06:40 AM
The previous debate format will be too hard on Palin so the McCain campaign requests (and gets!) a new format (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21debate.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin). Seriously?

cinammonkisses
09-21-2008, 07:33 AM
The previous debate format will be too hard on Palin so the McCain campaign requests (and gets!) a new format (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21debate.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin). Seriously?Now THAT is some bullshit!!! >:(

Richard_Head
09-21-2008, 08:11 AM
The previous debate format will be too hard on Palin so the McCain campaign requests (and gets!) a new format (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21debate.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin). Seriously?LOL, I'll bet they pushed for Sean Hannity being the debate moderator also. They're obviously having flashbacks of Admiral Stockdale (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6n5OQVzVVQ).

bem401
09-21-2008, 08:20 AM
So they want the VP debates to be more structured . Why is that such a big deal?
Obama, at one time, was supposedly willing to have town hall meetings jointly with McCain. He opted out of that because it wasn't to his advantage. All campaigns try to negotiate a situation that favors them.

Miss_Luscious
09-21-2008, 08:35 AM
Shut up Bem. You can't spin this. The debates would be too hard for her to do so they made them easier for her. As the Republicans have been fond of saying for the past few weeks "That's SEXIST!!!!":D

"More structured" For what? This format was fine for everyone else but Ms. Palin evidently can't do it. Why can't she debate the way things were originally supposed to be? Why can't she stand up to direct exchanges between her and Biden?

And what does Obama have to do with anything? They couldn't agree on town halls so she gets to have an easier debate? Just stop posting until you can make sense.

Melonie
09-21-2008, 09:02 AM
And what does Obama have to do with anything? They couldn't agree on town halls so she gets to have an easier debate? Just stop posting until you can make sense.

Apparently the double standard that is routinely applied by US mainstream media is also now present at SW. 'Sean Hannity' slams are valid while previous 'Chris Matthews' slams are partisan overreactions ?


Also, if you had read through the posted Times link, you'd have discovered that the format change was promoted by the Democrats as much as the Republicans, in an attempt to minimize the probability of yet another highly publicized 'gaffe' being committed by Joe Biden in front of an expected huge national TV audience ...

(snip)"Indeed, both the McCain and Obama campaigns have similar concerns about the vice-presidential matchup in St. Louis: that Ms. Palin, of Alaska, as a new player in national politics, or Mr. Biden, of Delaware, as a loquacious and gaffe-prone speaker, could commit a momentum-changing misstep in their debate."(snip)

nice try though ...

Miss_Luscious
09-21-2008, 09:07 AM
No. They are all partisan slams. Again, what does this have to do with Sarah Palin's special treatment.? Nothing. There is no way to spin this.

Budai
09-21-2008, 11:12 AM
Q: What do Republican voters and floor tiles have in common?

A: If you lay 'em right the first time, you can step all over 'em for years.

TheSexKitten
09-21-2008, 11:32 AM
Hey, let's just elect a baby for VP. We'll have to make a few changes in the job duties, but that's ok! Apparently we don't need someone competent as the understudy to one of the most powerful people in the world!

Richard_Head
09-21-2008, 12:06 PM
Apparently the double standard that is routinely applied by US mainstream media is also now present at SW. 'Sean Hannity' slams are valid while previous 'Chris Matthews' slams are partisan overreactions ?Has Chris Matthews moderated a presidential debate?