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CKXXX
09-21-2008, 01:48 PM
Wahhh....she cant doooo that...you'll be better then her and that will make her feeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllll badddd...dont be mean to herrrrr..but treat her the same.

Why are we even bothering to have an election? Obviously McCain can buy/terrorize his way into getting anything he wanted like Republicans have done for the past 2 elections.

bem401
09-21-2008, 03:36 PM
Shut up Bem. You can't spin this. The debates would be too hard for her to do so they made them easier for her. As the Republicans have been fond of saying for the past few weeks "That's SEXIST!!!!":D

"More structured" For what? This format was fine for everyone else but Ms. Palin evidently can't do it. Why can't she debate the way things were originally supposed to be? Why can't she stand up to direct exchanges between her and Biden?

And what does Obama have to do with anything? They couldn't agree on town halls so she gets to have an easier debate? Just stop posting until you can make sense.

Where does it say the debate will be easier? That's your spin. They negotiated for and got a format she was more comfortable with. What good campaign wouldn't do that?

Obama wanted the topic of the first debate to be foreign affairs. Should we try to read something into that?

As for "what does Obama have to do with it?", at one time he was talking about doing numerous town halls with McCain, till his handlers realized he wasn't an impressive speaker unless he had a teleprompter in front of him.

TheSexKitten
09-21-2008, 06:02 PM
he wasn't an impressive speaker unless he had a teleprompter in front of him.

you're still saying this? It's already been called out as bullshit.

Hello_Kitty27
09-21-2008, 06:47 PM
you're still saying this? It's already been called out as bullshit.

He brought a teleprompter to a state fair, for one. He's bringing it pretty much everywhere he goes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying one candidate is any better than another, but it's pretty clear that he is a great speech deliverer...not so much good at winging it. I personally feel it's just their strategy to be careful (lipstick on a pig-type backlash to avoid), as well as to try to be as clear and concise as possible with election day getting closer and closer.

But yes, the fact is, he is actually bringing it *nearly* everywhere he goes and he IS being criticized for it by pundits in his own party.

francescadubois
09-21-2008, 11:56 PM
The previous debate format will be too hard on Palin so the McCain campaign requests (and gets!) a new format (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21debate.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin). Seriously?

This is just atrocious. I can't believe that no one is screaming bloody murder about this. This is just rotten. :no:

Melonie
09-22-2008, 03:18 AM
I can't believe that no one is screaming bloody murder about this.

As posted earlier, the Democrats wanted the format change as much as the Republicans did - which is the reason that nobody is screaming !!! Their reason of course is to try and minimize the chances that Joe Biden would commit yet another 'gaffe' or come across as a 'windbag' during a free format debate. Because of this fact it's a bit hypocritical to aim all of the criticism towards Palin.

Miss_Luscious
09-22-2008, 04:58 AM
Where does it say that? The article says that this was worked out by the McCain campaign so that she would be more comfortable:

" At the insistence of the McCain campaign, the Oct. 2 debate between the Republican nominee for vice president, Gov. Sarah Palin, and her Democratic rival, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., will have shorter question-and-answer segments than those for the presidential nominees, the advisers said. There will also be much less opportunity for free-wheeling, direct exchanges between the running mates.

McCain advisers said they had been concerned that a loose format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage and largely on the defensive. "

So where does it say that the Obama campaign wanted the change just as much?

bem401
09-22-2008, 05:51 AM
So where does it say that the Obama campaign wanted the change just as much?

Reread the article. It says the Dems were also concerned that a longer response format might make Biden prone to misspeak. It also said Obama requested to change the topic of the first debate from the economy to defense. I guess he needs to figure out how to explain why so many big players in the mortgage crisis are integral to his campaign.

As far as the teleprompter issue is concerned, as HK said, he spoke at a rodeo a few weeks ago and brought the teleprompter right out onto the 'field" with him.

Miss_Luscious
09-22-2008, 06:34 AM
Again, refute what I posted with a quote from that article. I'm not seeing it.

bem401
09-22-2008, 06:54 AM
Again, refute what I posted with a quote from that article. I'm not seeing it.

Page 1, paragraph 13, starts with "Obama successfully...". it continues in paragrahs 15 and 16. He wanted things a certain way because he thought them to favor him, no different that Palin's situation. The article said the dems also welcomed the change because of Biden's tendency to commit gaffes if given too much leeway.

Remember, this article was in the NY Times, who write for an audience looking to hear criticisms of the Republicans.

rozz
09-22-2008, 07:33 AM
The time the woman should have been unwilling was before she got pregnant. I'm of the opinion she has an obligation once she helps create that fetus.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. So we're back to the argument that teh wimmins should keep their darn legs shut if they don't want the babeez? I refuse to be a slave-womb just because, despite numerous precautions, I may become pregnant.

I like sex. I enjoy it. And, if my fiance is to be believed, I'm pretty darn good at it. I am not ready for a child, nor am I able to carry to term and give a baby up for adoption (which, knowing the adoption system, I never would). So, since not all birth control is 100% effective, I should just cross my legs and pray my sinful urges away?

bem401
09-22-2008, 07:46 AM
Whoa, whoa, whoa. So we're back to the argument that teh wimmins should keep their darn legs shut if they don't want the babeez? I refuse to be a slave-womb just because, despite numerous precautions, I may become pregnant.

I like sex. I enjoy it. And, if my fiance is to be believed, I'm pretty darn good at it. I am not ready for a child, nor am I able to carry to term and give a baby up for adoption (which, knowing the adoption system, I never would). So, since not all birth control is 100% effective, I should just cross my legs and pray my sinful urges away?

No, you're right, killing it is the answer.

Once you create a life, it ceases to be all about you. And by no means am I excusing the father here either. He ought to ( and not enough do ) take responsibility as well.

I fully advocate preventing conception at all costs, but IMO once a child has been conceived, you have a responsibility.

Miss_Luscious
09-22-2008, 10:13 AM
Page 1, paragraph 13, starts with "Obama successfully...". it continues in paragrahs 15 and 16. He wanted things a certain way because he thought them to favor him, no different that Palin's situation. The article said the dems also welcomed the change because of Biden's tendency to commit gaffes if given too much leeway.

Remember, this article was in the NY Times, who write for an audience looking to hear criticisms of the Republicans.


I'm going so assmue your refering to this:

"Indeed, both the McCain and Obama campaigns have similar concerns about the vice-presidential matchup in St. Louis: that Ms. Palin, of Alaska, as a new player in national politics, or Mr. Biden, of Delaware, as a loquacious and gaffe-prone speaker, could commit a momentum-changing misstep in their debate."

However, it never said that the Obama campain wanted the changes. It never attriubutes these statements in the campain. It doesn't say , "The Obama campain said...." On the other hand:

"McCain advisers said they were only somewhat concerned about Ms. Palin’s debating skills compared with those of Mr. Biden, who has served six terms in the Senate, or about his chances of tripping her up. Instead, they say, they wanted Ms. Palin to have opportunities to present Mr. McCain’s positions, rather than spending time talking about her experience or playing defense."

This is what the campain actually SAID. See the dfference?

I guess you are once again being dense on purpose. Sarah Palin had the FORMAT of the debates changed because it would be too hard on her otherwise. That's what the article says and that's what McCain surrogates are saying. Flipping around the days that certain topics are discussed are not the same as making a debate easier.

Lucy in the Sky
09-22-2008, 11:48 AM
My take on Palin is that she is a complete incompetent and a catty bitch.

francescadubois
09-22-2008, 01:21 PM
I'm going so assmue your refering to this:

"Indeed, both the McCain and Obama campaigns have similar concerns about the vice-presidential matchup in St. Louis: that Ms. Palin, of Alaska, as a new player in national politics, or Mr. Biden, of Delaware, as a loquacious and gaffe-prone speaker, could commit a momentum-changing misstep in their debate."

However, it never said that the Obama campain wanted the changes. It never attriubutes these statements in the campain. It doesn't say , "The Obama campain said...." On the other hand:

"McCain advisers said they were only somewhat concerned about Ms. Palin’s debating skills compared with those of Mr. Biden, who has served six terms in the Senate, or about his chances of tripping her up. Instead, they say, they wanted Ms. Palin to have opportunities to present Mr. McCain’s positions, rather than spending time talking about her experience or playing defense."

This is what the campain actually SAID. See the dfference?

I guess you are once again being dense on purpose. Sarah Palin had the FORMAT of the debates changed because it would be too hard on her otherwise. That's what the article says and that's what McCain surrogates are saying. Flipping around the days that certain topics are discussed are not the same as making a debate easier.

Get 'eeeeeeeeeeeeeeem!!! :cheers:

bem401
09-22-2008, 01:49 PM
Well, we're reading a NY Times' article, so there will be a bias. Both sides asked for and got changes they thought would benefit them. Obama wanted the ecomomic debate delayed, probably because he needs to figure out how to explain his ties to Johnson, Raines, Gorelick, and Rezko, and all those contributions from Fannie and Freddie. It is not looking good for Obama, no matter the outcome of the VP debate.

Plus, where did you figure out that shorter questions means easier?

Richard_Head
09-22-2008, 09:09 PM
Well, we're reading a NY Times' article, so there will be a bias. That excuse is wearing thin.

Richard_Head
09-22-2008, 09:10 PM
Check out the "Road to Nowhere". Quite the Maverick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoXbg8bZvEw

eagle2
09-22-2008, 09:26 PM
Well, we're reading a NY Times' article, so there will be a bias. Both sides asked for and got changes they thought would benefit them. Obama wanted the ecomomic debate delayed, probably because he needs to figure out how to explain his ties to Johnson, Raines, Gorelick, and Rezko, and all those contributions from Fannie and Freddie. It is not looking good for Obama, no matter the outcome of the VP debate.


McCain is the one who hired Fannie Mae's head of lobbying to his campaign staff.

DB Cooper
09-23-2008, 06:38 AM
McCain is the one who hired Fannie Mae's head of lobbying to his campaign staff.

And Sen Obama is getting financial advice from the man who raped Fannie Mae.

bem401
09-23-2008, 08:25 AM
That excuse is wearing thin.

Are you implying the Times isn't biased? The fact is both sides sought and got changes to the debate. The article and some readers here chose to interpret that as either desperate or devious of the McCain camp to do so.

And I'm not happy to see McCain's advisor's name there in this Fannie/Freddie mess, but I don't really care much for McCain in the first place. I just think he isn't as bad a candidate as is Obama, who is the quintessential empty suit - wrong on all the issues and devoid of accomplishment. And no matter how you shake it, his hands ( and those of his advisors ) are dirtier than McCain's here.

cinammonkisses
09-23-2008, 09:01 AM
And Sen Obama is getting financial advice from the man who raped Fannie Mae. Actually that isn't true. That lie has been shreaded to pieces by all parties.

bem401
09-23-2008, 09:06 AM
Actually that isn't true. That lie has been shreaded to pieces by all parties.

Which part isn't true? That he's adving Obama or that he heped create the mortgage crisis?

cinammonkisses
09-23-2008, 09:08 AM
Which part isn't true? That he's adving Obama or that he heped create the mortgage crisis?
That he's advising/offering advice to Obama at all.

bem401
09-23-2008, 09:14 AM
That he's advising/offering advice to Obama at all.

I've not heard that. Politico.com says Obama contacts him on housing/motgage policy matters. And you're the first person I've heard refute that.

Eric Stoner
09-23-2008, 09:37 AM
The Washington Post quoted Franklin Raines as saying that the Obama campaign calls him on a weekly basis and there was not a peep from Obama. It was only when McCain ran an ad linking the two that Obama freaked out and tried to separate himself from Raines. As he previously had to do with Jim Johnson.

Didn't work. Unless Raines is lying. Unless the Washington Post is lying. Unless MSNBC is lying. MSNBC ? Part of Obama's campaign organization ? His biggest cheerleader ?

Richard_Head
09-23-2008, 07:17 PM
I've not heard that. Politico.com says Obama contacts him on housing/motgage policy matters. And you're the first person I've heard refute that.Fact Checker (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/09/obamas_fannie_mae_connection.html) time. 2 Pinocchio's for McCain on that one.

bem401
09-24-2008, 05:39 AM
Fact Checker (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/09/obamas_fannie_mae_connection.html) time. 2 Pinocchio's for McCain on that one.

It said he had taken calls and given advice on general housing/economy issues, which is basically what I said.

Oh, and the Washington Post would never provide cover for Obama, would they?

Richard_Head
09-24-2008, 07:16 AM
It said he had taken calls and given advice on general housing/economy issues, which is basically what I said. Your implication is that he's a top advisor, which he isn't.


Oh, and the Washington Post would never provide cover for Obama, would they?Have you read the Fact Checker section of the Washington Post? It calls both candidates on their lies and distortions.

sapphiregirl
09-24-2008, 12:14 PM
Because of Palin...the HSUS endorses a President and VP for the first time ever....and it's not McCain and Caribou Barbie....boo yah.



Humane Society Legislative Fund Endorses Obama-Biden
One of the guiding principles of the Humane Society Legislative Fund is that we evaluate candidates based on a single criterion: where they stand on animal protection policies. We don't make decisions based on party affiliation, or any other social issue, or even how many pets they have (http://hslf.typepad.com/political_animal/2008/07/should-obama-ad.html). We care about their views and actions on the major policy debates relating to animal welfare.
It stirs controversy to get involved in candidate elections. But we believe that candidates for office and current lawmakers must be held accountable, or they will see the animal protection movement as a largely irrelevant political constituency. In order to have good laws, we need good lawmakers, and involvement in elections is an essential strategy for any serious social movement, including our cause.
While we've endorsed hundreds of congressional candidates for election (http://www.fund.org/voter_guide/), both Democrats and Republicans, we've never before endorsed a presidential candidate. We have members on the left, in the center, and on the right, and we knew it could be controversial to choose either party's candidate for the top office in the nation. But in an era of sweeping presidential power, we must weigh in on this most important political race in the country. Standing on the sidelines is no longer an option for us.
https://img.getactivehub.com/an2/custom_images/fund/obama.JPGI'm proud to announce today that the HSLF board of directors -- which is comprised of both Democrats and Republicans -- has voted unanimously to endorse Barack Obama for President. The Obama-Biden ticket is the better choice on animal protection, and we urge all voters who care about the humane treatment of animals, no matter what their party affiliation, to vote for them.
Sen. Barack Obama (http://obama.senate.gov/) (D-Ill.) has been a solid supporter of animal protection (http://www.fund.org/humanescorecard/) at both the state and federal levels. As an Illinois state senator, he backed at least a dozen animal protection laws, including those to strengthen the penalties for animal cruelty, to help animal shelters, to promote spaying and neutering, and to ban the slaughter of horses for human consumption. In the U.S. Senate, he has consistently co-sponsored multiple bills to combat animal fighting and horse slaughter, and has supported efforts to increase funding for adequate enforcement of the Animal Welfare Act, Humane Methods of Slaughter Act, and federal laws to combat animal fighting and puppy mills.
In his response to the HSLF questionnaire (http://hslf.typepad.com/political_animal/2007/12/the-president-3.html), he pledged support for nearly every animal protection bill currently pending in Congress, and said he will work with executive agencies such as the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the Department of the Interior to make their policies more humane. He wrote of the important role animals play in our lives, as companions in our homes, as wildlife in their own environments, and as service animals working with law enforcement and assisting persons with disabilities. He also commented on the broader links between animal cruelty and violence in society.
Obama has even on occasion highlighted animal protection issues on the campaign trail, and has spoken publicly about his support for animal protection. In reaction to the investigation showing the abuse of sick and crippled cows which earlier this year led to the largest meat recall in U.S. history, he issued a statement saying (http://hslf.typepad.com/political_animal/2008/02/downers-obama.html) "that the mistreatment of downed cows is unacceptable and poses a serious threat to public health." He is featured in Jana Kohl's book about puppy mills, A Rare Breed of Love (http://hslf.typepad.com/political_animal/2008/02/yes-we-canstop.html), with a photo of Obama holding Baby (shown above), the three-legged poodle rescued from an abusive puppy mill operation, and his political mentor, Sen. Dick Durbin (http://durbin.senate.gov/) (D-Ill.), is the author of the latest federal bill to crack down on puppy mills (http://www.fund.org/press-releases/puppy_mills_bill.html).
https://img.getactivehub.com/an2/custom_images/fund/obamabiden2.jpgImportantly, Obama's running mate, Sen. Joe Biden (http://biden.senate.gov/) (D-Del.) has been a stalwart friend of animal welfare advocates in the Senate (http://hslf.typepad.com/political_animal/2008/08/where-do-the-ve.html), and has received high marks year after year on the Humane Scorecard (http://humanescorecard.org/). Biden has not only supported animal protection legislation during his career, but has also led the fight on important issues. He was the co-author with Sen. Barbara Boxer (http://boxer.senate.gov/) (D-Calif.) in the 108th Congress on legislation to ban the netting of dolphins by commercial tuna fishermen. He was the lead author of a bill in the 107th Congress to prohibit trophy hunting of captive exotic mammals in fenced enclosures, and he successfully passed the bill through the Senate Judiciary Committee.
On the Republican ticket, Sen. John McCain (http://mccain.senate.gov/) (R-Ariz.) has also supported some animal protection bills in Congress (http://hslf.typepad.com/political_animal/2008/01/elephants.html), but has been inattentive or opposed to others. He has voted for and co-sponsored legislation to stop horse slaughter, and voted to eliminate a $2 million subsidy for the luxury fur coat industry. But he has largely been absent on other issues, and has failed to co-sponsor a large number of priority bills or sign onto animal protection letters that have had broad support in the Senate.
The McCain campaign did not fill out the HSLF presidential questionnaire, and has also not issued any public statements on animal welfare issues. He was silent during the downed animal scandal and beef recall, which played out during a high-point in the primary fight. Yet he did speak at the NRA convention earlier this year, and is the keynote speaker this weekend in Columbus, Ohio, at the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance rally (http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2008/09/21/outdoors_notes21.ART_ART_09-21-08_C13_S8BCJCU.html)—an extremist organization that defends the trophy hunting of threatened polar bears and captive shooting of tame animals inside fenced pens.
While McCain's positions on animal protection have been lukewarm, his choice of running mate cemented our decision to oppose his ticket. Gov. Sarah Palin's (R-Alaska) retrograde policies on animal welfare and conservation (http://hslf.typepad.com/political_animal/2008/09/palin.html) have led to an all-out war on Alaska's wolves and other creatures. Her record is so extreme that she has perhaps done more harm to animals than any other current governor in the United States.
https://img.getactivehub.com/an2/custom_images/fund/palin2.jpgPalin engineered a campaign of shooting predators from airplanes and helicopters, in order to artificially boost the populations of moose and caribou for trophy hunters. She offered a $150 bounty for the left foreleg of each dead wolf as an economic incentive for pilots and aerial gunners to kill more of the animals, even though Alaska voters had twice approved a ban on the practice. This year, the issue was up again for a vote of the people (http://hslf.typepad.com/political_animal/2008/08/yesterday-just.html), and Palin led the fight against it -- in fact, she helped to spend $400,000 of public funds to defeat the initiative.
What's more, when the Bush Administration announced its decision to list the polar bear as threatened under the Endangered Species Act, Palin filed a lawsuit to reverse that decision. She said it's the "wrong move" to protect polar bears, even though their habitat is shrinking and ice floes are vanishing due to global warming.
The choice for animals is especially clear now that Palin is in the mix. If Palin is put in a position to succeed McCain, it could mean rolling back decades of progress on animal issues.
Voters who care about protecting wildlife from inhumane and unsporting abuses, enforcing the laws that combat large-scale cruelties like dogfighting and puppy mills, providing humane treatment of animals in agriculture, and addressing other challenges that face animals in our nation, must become active over the next six weeks to elect a president and vice president who share our values. Please spread the word, and tell friends and family members that an honest assessment of the records of the two presidential tickets leads to the inescapable conclusion that Obama-Biden is the choice for humane-minded voters.
Paid for by Humane Society Legislative Fund and not authorized by any candidate or candidate’s committee.

bem401
09-24-2008, 01:53 PM
McCain is the one who hired Fannie Mae's head of lobbying to his campaign staff.

Not true. His guy was a partner in a firm that did consulting work for one of the mortgage giants.

bem401
09-24-2008, 01:55 PM
Your implication is that he's a top advisor, which he isn't.

Have you read the Fact Checker section of the Washington Post? It calls both candidates on their lies and distortions.

Well if Obama is turning to him for advice, he must be a top advisor. Even if you're right on Raines, are you going to try telling me that Johnson isn't close either? head of the VP vetting process?

TheSexKitten
09-24-2008, 06:29 PM
Interesting article about Palin:

She apparently had someone fired for opposing her decision to support the practice of charging rape victims for their own rape kits.

francescadubois
09-24-2008, 06:56 PM
Yeah, I heard someone talking about that earlier last week. That's just dirty. :no:

Kellydancer
09-26-2008, 11:42 PM
Palin is an incompetent, extremely idiotic, animal murderer. Both my cat and dog (both of whom she'd probably love to shoot being the animal murderer she is) are more qualified to be VP. She's an embarassment to white women everywhere.

Richard_Head
09-27-2008, 12:23 AM
Jack Cafferty from CNN is not a fan of Palin. Wow. Make sure you watch it all the way through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc

francescadubois
09-27-2008, 09:54 AM
Jack Cafferty from CNN is not a fan of Palin. Wow. Make sure you watch it all the way through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc

Damn, Jack! Tell us how you really feel!! LOL!

Wow.

Andygirl
09-27-2008, 10:42 AM
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n67/seemslikeadream/Sarah-Palin-Hunter.jpg

francescadubois
09-27-2008, 10:46 AM
Whoa!!!!!!!!!! :O

cinammonkisses
09-27-2008, 10:52 AM
Jack Cafferty from CNN is not a fan of Palin. Wow. Make sure you watch it all the way through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc

Damn, he really let us know how he felt. I totally agree with him as well. Folks who are voting republican this election SHOULD be scared!

Here is another Cafferty file. (never heard of this guy, but now I'm a fan lol)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6MVmv1OY6Q

lmao @ 13 people and a caribou

francescadubois
09-27-2008, 11:27 AM
Damn, he really let us know how he felt. I totally agree with him as well. Folks who are voting republican this election SHOULD be scared!

Here is another Cafferty file. (never heard of this guy, but now I'm a fan lol)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6MVmv1OY6Q

lmao @ 13 people and a caribou

LOL! Wow!

Lucy in the Sky
09-27-2008, 12:58 PM
I can't wait for her debate. It's going to be just too damn funny to watch her be such an idiot in that big of an event.

Eric Stoner
09-27-2008, 01:05 PM
I can't wait for her debate. It's going to be just too damn funny to watch her be such an idiot in that big of an event.

Fortunately for her, she's going up against Biden and he might say ANYTHING !

My money is on Joe to give us "The Gaffe of the Night".

Lucy in the Sky
09-27-2008, 01:34 PM
Fortunately for her, she's going up against Biden and he might say ANYTHING !

My money is on Joe to give us "The Gaffe of the Night".

Maybe but she sure has given alot of none answers and nonsense answers in the few interviews she has allowed so far. It's pretty obvious she is way over her head. I swear to God she reminds me sooooo much of this little gem

francescadubois
09-27-2008, 05:15 PM
Maybe but she sure has given alot of none answers and nonsense answers in the few interviews she has allowed so far. It's pretty obvious she is way over her head. I swear to God she reminds me sooooo much of this little gem http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-qUK6XdDwk

THE END PART IS THE BEST PART!!! :rotfl:

They should put that after the Palin/Couric interview.:rotfl:

I love this country.