View Full Version : So.... what's up with Sarah Palin?
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bem401
09-16-2008, 09:14 AM
^^^^ McCain has and continues to ask for town hall meetings with Obama but he won't have any of it.
The reason?
With a teleprompter, Obama is an impressive speaker. Without one, he stutters and stammers and makes ill-advised remarks, so sheltering him from occasions where people might see behind the curtain is the dem policy.
CKXXX
09-16-2008, 10:21 AM
Sanitize any way you want, pro-choice = pro-abortion. It is not used to describe the right to choose anything but an abortion.
Saying pro-choicers ( and yes, I use "pro-abortion" to antagonize ) aren't pro-abortion because they don't condemn women who choose to have babies is a ridiculous argument.
As far as their being concerned about the rights of women, what about the female fetuses that are being aborted? There is a 50% chance that the aborted fetus is female, in effect, a future woman ( as long as its allowed to live ).
Are you smoking crack?? I support a woman whether she chooses abortion. adoption or keeping the baby. Every situation is different and I support her right to CHOOSE which is right for her. If nobody ever chose abortion again..that would be fine with me...as long as it was their CHOICE...hence pro-CHOICE.
And most fetuses have no genitals yet when they are aborted. So saying what if it were female is just stupid. If you want to play that game...what if it were the next Charles Manson? Or Jeffrey Dahmer? Or Genene Jones?
The point is..it isnt ANYTHING yet. It's only potential. And taking the side of a potential person over an actual person is just insane.
Eric Stoner
09-16-2008, 12:12 PM
Are you smoking crack?? I support a woman whether she chooses abortion. adoption or keeping the baby. Every situation is different and I support her right to CHOOSE which is right for her. If nobody ever chose abortion again..that would be fine with me...as long as it was their CHOICE...hence pro-CHOICE.
And most fetuses have no genitals yet when they are aborted. So saying what if it were female is just stupid. If you want to play that game...what if it were the next Charles Manson? Or Jeffrey Dahmer? Or Genene Jones?
The point is..it isnt ANYTHING yet. It's only potential. And taking the side of a potential person over an actual person is just insane.
I admittedly waffle and waver on the abortion issue. I don't like government telling people what to do, especially something as deeply personal as child-bearing and yet.... a fetus is living tissue. There's no getting around that fact. It's not some inanimate object that just sits in the womb until it is suddenly and magically delivered alive. So when I see or read language like " it isn't ANYTHING yet." my response is : "Then WHAT is it ?". Even if you support Roe v.Wade or if you go further ( as a few posters on here do ) and support ANY abortion ; at ANY time; for ANY reason up to the date of delivery I find it hard to believe that one can do so without some real appreciation for the gravity of what is being done.
To me, just saying a fetus is "not a life" but just "a potential life" smacks of sophistry. And there are a few radicals so intent on defending absolute female dominion over the womb that they don't even go that far i.e. it appears that to them the fetus is NOTHING.
Before anyone has a conniption, I'm willing to see Roe v. Wade be upheld until we can generate a serious consensus in favor of ALL life in this country. I'd just like to see the "freedom" to choose somehow get coupled with a sense of responsibility.
sapphiregirl
09-16-2008, 12:47 PM
Awesome...
----------------------------
ANCHORAGE, Alaska, Sept. 14 (UPI) -- Hundreds of anti-Sarah Palin (http://www.upi.com/topic/Sarah_Palin/) protesters in Anchorage, Alaska, say they reject the Republican (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/09/14/Alaska_protesters_pan_Palin/UPI-94471221410966/#) U.S. vice presidential nominee as unqualified.
Gathered Saturday in midtown Anchorage, the group was estimated to be about 1,500, making for the largest street demonstration in recent Alaskan history, the Anchorage Daily News reported.
The newspaper said the protest started out as a modest effort by a group called Alaska Women Reject Palin but quickly swelled as word of it was spread via the Internet. Participants said it gained traction because of widespread concerns and frustrations over what some called "the myth" of the Alaska governor.
"Sarah Palin frightens the hell out of me. I don't want her anywhere near the White House," said Marybeth Holleman of Anchorage.
Alison Till, a geologist in Anchorage with the U.S. Geological Survey, told the Daily News that energy and global warming challenges require a solid and unbiased view of science to address.
"She is unqualified," Till said.
bem401
09-16-2008, 12:53 PM
Are you smoking crack?? I support a woman whether she chooses abortion. adoption or keeping the baby. Every situation is different and I support her right to CHOOSE which is right for her. If nobody ever chose abortion again..that would be fine with me...as long as it was their CHOICE...hence pro-CHOICE.
No I don't smoke crack. I didn't know pro-lifers were crackeads. When you choose to have an abortion, you support abortion. When you support the right to choose to have an abortion, you support abortion. Abortion is either right or it is wrong.
And most fetuses have no genitals yet when they are aborted. So saying what if it were female is just stupid. If you want to play that game...what if it were the next Charles Manson? Or Jeffrey Dahmer? Or Genene Jones?
I'm stupid? Are you telling me the fetus doesn't have a 50% chance of being female? Are you also telling me abortion is justified because the fetus might be the next Charles Manson? It might be the next Mother Teresa too.
And taking the side of a potential person over an actual person is just insane.
I'm not arguing the life of the fetus vs the life of the mother. I'm debating the life of the fetus vs the inconvenience of the mother or because of her irresponsibility.
I already said I didn't oppose abortion in cases of incest, rape and the life of the mother.
Eric Stoner
09-16-2008, 01:03 PM
No I don't smoke crack. I didn't know pro-lifers were crackeads. When you choose to have an abortion, you support abortion. When you support the right to choose to have an abortion, you support abortion. Abortion is either right or it is wrong.
I'm stupid? Are you telling me the fetus doesn't have a 50% chance of being female? Are you also telling me abortion is justified because the fetus might be the next Charles Manson? It might be the next Mother Teresa too.
I'm not arguing the life of the fetus vs the life of the mother. I'm debating the life of the fetus vs the inconvenience of the mother or because of her irresponsibility.
I already said I didn't oppose abortion in cases of incest, rape and the life of the mother.
I envy you and your sense of certitude on this issue. Like most Americans, I find it to be filled with nuance and lacking of any good answers. To me, it ususally comes down to choosing ( oops ! sorry to use the "c" word ) among lousy alternatives.
kdogg247
09-16-2008, 01:09 PM
How is Sarah Palin less qualified than Obama?
sapphiregirl
09-16-2008, 01:15 PM
How is Sarah Palin less qualified than Obama?
First off....Obama has spent 19+ months campaigning and won the democratic nomination regardless of what crap other people slung at him. If that is not an accomplishment alone I don't know what is. Could you do that? Could Sarah Palin do that?
My Presidential candidates don't have to hide from reporters in order to cram for an interview 2 months before an election for President of the United States...God help us all if that is ok with people.
TheSexKitten
09-16-2008, 01:19 PM
To me, just saying a fetus is "not a life" but just "a potential life" smacks of sophistry. And there are a few radicals so intent on defending absolute female dominion over the womb that they don't even go that far i.e. it appears that to them the fetus is NOTHING.
Imo, before the fetus has neural functioning along with the capacity to feel pain, it is technically less alive than an animal. We slaughter animals every which way daily. Humans are overpopulated, and punishing women for not "being responsible" by forcing them to carry and unwanted child to term will result in unnecessary population growth and typically, a sad individual case of a resented child.
Of course, later term abortions are much different. If the life of the mother is directly threatened by the child, or if the child is severely defected, then... sure. Otherwise, no. But, we don't really do that in this country anyway so that would be a moot point.
kdogg:
Palin doesn't believe in dinosaurs. If that's not enough to convince you, look at their education.
Palin: one degree, in journalism, from Idaho.
Obama: one degree from Columbia in Political Science with a specialization in international relations, plus another degree from Harvard, in law. While there, he was president of the law review.
bem401
09-16-2008, 01:20 PM
I envy you and your sense of certitude on this issue. Like most Americans, I find it to be filled with nuance and lacking of any good answers. To me, it ususally comes down to choosing ( oops ! sorry to use the "c" word ) among lousy alternatives.
The odd thing is its not even a religious thing for me. I don't even go to church. It's just kind of common sense to me. To abort the fetus for anything other than the most extreme of reasons ( life of the mother, incest, or rape) just can't be a moral thing to do. I just don't see how killing a fetus is an acceptable solution to a problem.
I think it is a difficult topic to discuss dispassionately. I have no emotional ties to the issue. I suspect others might have had to face this issue other than on a message board. I once had this very debate with a friend who apparently had an abortion in her past. During our discussion, she made it known to me, and said she just didn't want to be a poor single mom. To me, that's just not a good enough reason and I told her so. She was hurt that I felt that way but she didn't resort to name-calling and we avoided each other for some time but eventually put that behind us.
CKXXX
09-16-2008, 01:20 PM
So when I see or read language like " it isn't ANYTHING yet." my response is : "Then WHAT is it ?". Even if you support Roe v.Wade or if you go further ( as a few posters on here do ) and support ANY abortion ; at ANY time; for ANY reason up to the date of delivery I find it hard to believe that one can do so without some real appreciation for the gravity of what is being done.
To me, just saying a fetus is "not a life" but just "a potential life" smacks of sophistry. And there are a few radicals so intent on defending absolute female dominion over the womb that they don't even go that far i.e. it appears that to them the fetus is NOTHING.
.\
The fetus isnt nothing...it is potentially a person. It isnt yet. It is a bunch of cells developing INTO a person.
And I support abortion at any time...but not for any reason. The fact of the matter is that nobody has an abortion in the third trimester just because they wake up and decide they dont feel like having a baby anymore. You HAVE to have a Dr. give the reason...like hydroencephely..have you ever seen a fetus who's skull never developed? How cruel is it to force a women who knows that her baby is dead inside her to go through a month or more of pregnancy..with everyone she sees asking when shes due, if its a boy or a girl...etc..etc...and she knows she will never actually have a living child from this pregnancy. I cant imagine doing that to someone.
TheSexKitten
09-16-2008, 01:21 PM
cerously. blastocyst is not equal to baby, yawl
kdogg247
09-16-2008, 01:23 PM
First off....Obama has spent 19+ months campaigning and won the democratic nomination regardless of what crap other people slung at him. If that is not an accomplishment alone I don't know what is. Could you do that? Could Sarah Palin do that?
My Presidential candidates don't have to hide from reporters in order to cram for an interview 2 months before an election for President of the United States...God help us all if that is ok with people.
Campaigning is just making speeches and pandering to the crowd.
How does that make him qualified to run a country?
CKXXX
09-16-2008, 01:26 PM
No I don't smoke crack. I didn't know pro-lifers were crackeads. When you choose to have an abortion, you support abortion. When you support the right to choose to have an abortion, you support abortion. Abortion is either right or it is wrong.
Actually it isnt that black or white. It is a very individual thing..whats right for one person is VERY wrong for another. I support the RIGHT to abortion...just like I support the right to have a child or give it up for adoption. Funny how anti-choice people act like abortion is the ONLY choice we support...as if we want EVERYONE to have one.::)
And "smoking crack"is a turn of phrase. Dont try to act like you've never heard it before.
I'm stupid? Are you telling me the fetus doesn't have a 50% chance of being female? Are you also telling me abortion is justified because the fetus might be the next Charles Manson? It might be the next Mother Teresa too.
Actually it has more then a 50% chance of being a female...but at the time of most abortions it isnt any gender yet. It is a mass of cells the size of an m & m. How that has more rights then the fully formed,sentient woman it's growing in I'll never understand.
I'm not arguing the life of the fetus vs the life of the mother. I'm debating the life of the fetus vs the inconvenience of the mother or because of her irresponsibility.
It isnt always irresponsibility...do you think birth control is 100%?? Or should we all never have sex unless it is for pro-creation? And I LOVE how its HER irresponsibilty...the guy had NOTHING to do with it...ugh..typical.
I already said I didn't oppose abortion in cases of incest, rape and the life of the mother.
The mental health of the mother is just as important. And adoption isnt 100%....plenty of kids never get adopted. And adopted kids arent immune to abuse and neglect.
Miss_Luscious
09-16-2008, 01:26 PM
I'm not arguing the life of the fetus vs the life of the mother. I'm debating the life of the fetus vs the inconvenience of the mother or because of her irresponsibility.
I'm going to copy and paste this from another thread:
I believe abortion should be available for everyone. However, I can see how the women who use abortion as birth control could piss people off. Hell, women who have multiple abortions pissed me off. My thing is, sometimes, abortion isn't just a selfish decision. I got pregnant a few years ago, right after giving birth to my son. We were careful but obviously not careful enough. I had started back dancing but money was still tight. So here I was, engaged, two children, very little extra money. I had to make a tough decision. My heart wanted to keep the baby (I'm pro-choice but I wish abortions didn't have to happen) but I knew that it would make life even harder for my family. With that in mind, I did the most selfless thing and had an abortion. I was sad but relieved afterward and I knew I made the right decision, even if it killed me inside. I am now pregnant with a baby that I can care for without hurting the rest of my family (even though it wasn't exactly planned).
My point is, if you are willing and able to care for a child, then have it. If not, have an abortion. The irresponsible thing to do would be to bring a child into the world which can't (or won't) be cared for.
kdogg247
09-16-2008, 01:27 PM
kdogg:
Palin doesn't believe in dinosaurs. If that's not enough to convince you, look at their education.
Palin: one degree, in journalism, from Idaho.
Obama: one degree from Columbia in Political Science with a specialization in international relations, plus another degree from Harvard, in law. While there, he was president of the law review.
Palin has run a city and a state though.
I have a Political Science degree and a law degree, too. Does that mean I have experience in the executive branch of a government? It does not.
bem401
09-16-2008, 01:28 PM
First off....Obama has spent 19+ months campaigning and won the democratic nomination regardless of what crap other people slung at him. If that is not an accomplishment alone I don't know what is. Could you do that? Could Sarah Palin do that?
He spent 19 months not answering any really probing questions because he was the darling of the MSM. Sarah Palin could not do that for 19 moths and get the Democratic nomination because she isn't a liberal democrat.
My Presidential candidates don't have to hide from reporters in order to cram for an interview 2 months before an election for President of the United States...God help us all if that is ok with people.
Well, she's not running for President. Why won't he do town hall meetings?
The question as to whether or not she was a good choice is answered by the fact that the Obama campaign is in a panic over how to deal with her and their suddenly faltering campaign.
bem401
09-16-2008, 01:33 PM
I'm going to copy and paste this from another thread:
I believe abortion should be available for everyone. However, I can see how the women who use abortion as birth control could piss people off. Hell, women who have multiple abortions pissed me off. My thing is, sometimes, abortion isn't just a selfish decision. I got pregnant a few years ago, right after giving birth to my son. We were careful but obviously not careful enough. I had started back dancing but money was still tight. So here I was, engaged, two children, very little extra money. I had to make a tough decision. My heart wanted to keep the baby (I'm pro-choice but I wish abortions didn't have to happen) but I knew that it would make life even harder for my family. With that in mind, I did the most selfless thing and had an abortion. I was sad but relieved afterward and I knew I made the right decision, even if it killed me inside. I am now pregnant with a baby that I can care for without hurting the rest of my family (even though it wasn't exactly planned).
My point is, if you are willing and able to care for a child, then have it. If not, have an abortion. The irresponsible thing to do would be to bring a child into the world which can't (or won't) be cared for.
I wonder if the aborted baby would agree if we could ask him. Look I know its a tough issue, but whoever posted that moving story admitted she made a mistake, and a fetus lost a chance at life because of it. While I understand the gut-wrenching decision she faced, it doesn't mean I can condone the decision she made.
TheSexKitten
09-16-2008, 01:37 PM
Palin has run a city and a state though.
I have a Political Science degree and a law degree, too. Does that mean I have experience in the executive branch of a government? It does not.
Do you think creationism should be taught as a scientific theory? Do you think dinosaurs never existed? Are you a babbling fucking idiot? Hopefully not. Believe if or not, if you have a smithereen of charisma and people-skills, you would probably make a better VP candidate.
sapphiregirl
09-16-2008, 01:38 PM
He spent 19 months not answering any really probing questions because he was the darling of the MSM. Sarah Palin could not do that for 19 moths and get the Democratic nomination because she isn't a liberal democrat.
Well, she's not running for President. Why won't he do town hall meetings?
The question as to whether or not she was a good choice is answered by the fact that the Obama campaign is in a panic over how to deal with her and their suddenly faltering campaign.
Well, she is not running for President? GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!
Obama is out there every single day. John McCain is 72...you are dellusional if you think there is no way she may not end up being president.
sapphiregirl
09-16-2008, 01:39 PM
I wonder if the aborted baby would agree if we could ask him. Look I know its a tough issue, but whoever posted that moving story admitted she made a mistake, and a fetus lost a chance at life because of it. While I understand the gut-wrenching decision she faced, it doesn't mean I can condone the decision she made.
Are you going to personally pay to raise all these "babies"?
TheSexKitten
09-16-2008, 01:40 PM
^^^ No, dammit! Because the government and those crazy liberals shouldn't tax me to support all these ne'er-do-well freeloader foster home byproducts and struggling single mothers! ::)
And so the cycle continues, each side blinded by pride, unable to see the solution
sapphiregirl
09-16-2008, 01:42 PM
^^^ No, dammit! Because the government and those crazy liberals shouldn't tax me to support all these ne-er-do-well freeloader foster home byproducts and struggling single mothers! ::)
And so the cycle continues, each side blinded by pride, unable to see the solution
Exactlly....I don't see all these hardcore pro choice Republicans out there adopting all the hundreds of thousands of unwanted kids in America as it is.
kdogg247
09-16-2008, 01:47 PM
Do you think creationism should be taught as a scientific theory? Do you think dinosaurs never existed? Are you a babbling fucking idiot? Hopefully not. Believe if or not, if you have a smithereen of charisma and people-skills, you would probably make a better VP candidate.
I'm only an idiot on Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
When I hear the word "unqualified", I tend to translate that as "no experience or training" in whatever. My only point was that Palin has more experience in the executive branch than Obama.
You're arguing that she's unqualified because she thinks creationism should be taught as a scientific theory and that dinosaurs never existed. I did a quick Google News search, and I'm not sure that those statements accurately reflect her position on those issues.
bem401
09-16-2008, 01:47 PM
Obama is out there every single day. John McCain is 72...you are dellusional if you think there is no way she may not end up being president.
I never commented on the likelihood of her having to replace McCain.
Camapaigning for President in no way qualifies one to be President.
Her experience is thin but she won't be president right away in all likelihood, if at all. She still has more executive experience than Obama and Biden (and McCain ) combined. Granted its not much but they have none.
Obama will be President if elected and that troubles me more. I disagree with all his positions, am suspicious of his associates, and feel he is way underqualified.
I have asked this before and will again : What in his experience qualifies him to be President starting January 20th?
I still haven't gotten an answer as to what he actually did as a community organizer. My opinions of such people are not consistent with what I think of when contemplating presidential qualifications.
Miss_Luscious
09-16-2008, 01:50 PM
I wonder if the aborted baby would agree if we could ask him. Look I know its a tough issue, but whoever posted that moving story admitted she made a mistake, and a fetus lost a chance at life because of it. While I understand the gut-wrenching decision she faced, it doesn't mean I can condone the decision she made.
That's my story. I had to make that decision. It was between doing what was best for 4 other people or one potential person. To me, the selfish thing to do would have been to have the baby and throw my family into turmoil as we simply didn't have enough money to care for another child at the time. That bundle of cells that didn't even have a heartbeat at the time I had the abortion most certainly took a backset to the children I already had. We would have gone from self sufficient to being in debt and on welfare. Do you think it's better if children are born and the family goes on welfare? Oh wait, you don't support social programs like that do you? If you think these babies would be better off simply by living, you may want to do some research into child poverty, neglect and abuse as a result of being born when they were not wanted or could not be cared for properly. Those chldren are MUCH better off right?
And for the record, we were 3 times careful. I was charting my cycles, we were using spermicide and he pulled out while I was waiting for my period to regulate so I could go on birth control (I was still nursing at the time and that makes your cycles extra funky). I'm just a Fertile Myrtle and even against our planning, I still got pregnant.
bem401
09-16-2008, 01:54 PM
Are you going to personally pay to raise all these "babies"?
No, but maybe those people will start thinking first and acting later if they know there are consequences to their actions. I know I'm dreaming when I say it but that's the optimal case. And even if achieving the optimal results is impossible, I still can't see justifying killing the fetus.
Sorry, its my opinion. I know its a tough issue, but I don't see abortion as a viable option. I mean, its ending a life. That's as serious as it gets.
bem401
09-16-2008, 02:03 PM
That's my story. I had to make that decision. It was between doing what was best for 4 other people or one potential person. To me, the selfish thing to do would have been to have the baby and throw my family into turmoil as we simply didn't have enough money to care for another child at the time. That bundle of cells that didn't even have a heartbeat at the time I had the abortion most certainly took a backset to the children I already had. We would have gone from self sufficient to being in debt and on welfare. Do you think it's better if children are born and the family goes on welfare? Oh wait, you don't support social programs like that do you? If you think these babies would be better off simply by living, you may want to do some research into child poverty, neglect and abuse as a result of being born when they were not wanted or could not be cared for properly. Those chldren are MUCH better off right?
And for the record, we were 3 times careful. I was charting my cycles, we were using spermicide and he pulled out while I was waiting for my period to regulate so I could go on birth control (I was still nursing at the time and that makes your cycles extra funky). I'm just a Fertile Myrtle and even against our planning, I still got pregnant.
ML, I don't want this to be personal, but I think abortion is wrong. I hope your at peace with your decision. I hope you think everything turned out for the better, but I'd like to think I'd have decided differently. it must have been a difficult decision. My sister tried for 10 years to get pregnant with fertility treatments and what not, so I know that is an emotional issue.
CKXXX
09-16-2008, 02:04 PM
Sorry, its my opinion. I know its a tough issue, but I don't see abortion as a viable option. I mean, its ending a life. That's as serious as it gets.
Are you a vegetarian? Enjoying that steak ended a life too. Or is it only potential HUMAN life that matters and all other life can suck it..even though the cow was a fully formed actual creature and not a cluster of parasitic cells.
TheSexKitten
09-16-2008, 02:49 PM
When I hear the word "unqualified", I tend to translate that as "no experience or training" in whatever. My only point was that Palin has more experience in the executive branch than Obama.
you got me there, butbutbut
I still say you would probably make a better VP. :-\
sapphiregirl
09-16-2008, 03:12 PM
Speaking of babies and all that jazz.....If Barack Obama had a pregnant daughter right now....Republicans would have gone NUTS on him about it.
keira0304
09-16-2008, 03:12 PM
Are you a vegetarian? Enjoying that steak ended a life too. Or is it only potential HUMAN life that matters and all other life can suck it..even though the cow was a fully formed actual creature and not a cluster of parasitic cells.
QFT x 1,000,000,000
Zia_Abq
09-16-2008, 03:20 PM
I doubt that there is anyone who is “pro-abortion”. There are people who support abortion rights, but if a pregnant woman decides not to have an abortion, I doubt there is anyone who would condemn her for it. Most of those who favor abortion rights do so because they are concerned about women. In many countries where women don’t have access to safe, legal abortions, illegal abortions are the leading cause of death for young women. Those who support abortion rights don’t want to see that happening in this country.
Absolutely correct! Being pro choice is about supporting a woman’s right to make ALL her own reproductive decisions. Those decisions include birth control, access to a preferred gynecology provider, the right to object to an abortion as well as the right to choose a safe one. Anyone who says it equals ONLY a pro-abortion mindset is an absolute fool or simply promoting religious propaganda.
Exactlly....I don't see all these hardcore pro life Republicans out there adopting all the hundreds of thousands of unwanted kids in America as it is.
So Republicans fund abstinence-only education, restrict access to birth control, then want every unplanned pregnancy (of which there are millions each year) to become a baby. Then what? To quote the late, great Carlin: "If you're pre-born, you're fine. But if you're preschool, you're fucked...that is, until you reach *military age.*
I think abortion is wrong. I hope your at peace with your decision. I hope you think everything turned out for the better, but I'd like to think I'd have decided differently. it must have been a difficult decision. My sister tried for 10 years to get pregnant with fertility treatments and what not, so I know that is an emotional issue.
bem, no one is disputing your right to not have an abortion. Hell, have 17 kids if it so pleases you. But your views and my uterus remain two very separate spaces. Now, please, drop the touchie subject. We're here to chat about Palin. You're welcome to start an abortion thread if it suits you, but this is not the setting for such a debate.
Zia_Abq
09-16-2008, 03:43 PM
\
How cruel is it to force a women who knows that her baby is dead inside her to go through a month or more of pregnancy..with everyone she sees asking when shes due, if its a boy or a girl...etc..etc...and she knows she will never actually have a living child from this pregnancy. I cant imagine doing that to someone.
The women don't matter to Prolifers like Palin. They don't care about the women or even the baby to begin with.. that is not their goal.
They believe that their own opinion and decisions should be supplemented over any and every woman. The Pro- Life movements real goal is to have control over another person. Ultimate control over even the most personal situations such as pregnancy. If this weren’t true then they would be Pro-Choice and believe that such decisions are to be made by the individual and not by complete strangers or anyone else for that matter.
Zia_Abq
09-16-2008, 04:12 PM
^^^ I disagree there. I think it's more ignorance about the stages of development in a fetus, or a kneejerk emotional reaction stemming from natural baby compassion instincts or from deep religious involvement.
Maybe for some. I'll give you that much. But think about it. Don't alot of these same people also want to control other things that people do with their reproductive organs besides pregnancy? They want to stop women from having access to birth control, some even want to stop having condoms for sale.They want to make gay sex illegal too. And that doesn't even get onto what most of these people think about and want to happen in our own industry!
They are simply obsessed with controlling what others do with their reproductive organs. It goes WAY beyond just abortion.
CKXXX
09-16-2008, 04:41 PM
Yeah I love how they are all about women being forced to have the baby...but they are against social programs like welfare and such...so umm...if a woman cant afford to raise a child she's fucked and so is the kid.Oh...but once they are born they dont give a shit anymore. Most of them dont have any adopted kids...so where the hell do they think all these unwanted children are going to end up? We already are inundated with unwanted children either being neglected or abused or growing up in the system....and sadly because of the crap that goes on there,many of THOSE kids stay in the system by spending their lives in and out of jail. Thats fabulous. Lets have more of that.
I will NEVER understand the obsession over a cluster of parasitic cells over all other life(and quality of said life) in the world. Save the blastocyte...bomb the Dr's????
sapphiregirl
09-16-2008, 04:57 PM
Maybe for some. I'll give you that much. But think about it. Don't alot of these same people also want to control other things that people do with their reproductive organs besides pregnancy? They want to stop women from having access to birth control, some even want to stop having condoms for sale.They want to make gay sex illegal too. And that doesn't even get onto what most of these people think about and want to happen in our own industry!
They are simply obsessed with controlling what others do with their reproductive organs. It goes WAY beyond just abortion.
Yep....don't ever try to control their guns though....after all, its not like guns kill people or anything.
CKXXX
09-16-2008, 05:22 PM
Yep....don't ever try to control their guns though....after all, its not like guns kill people or anything.
Or take away hunting...wolves...from helicopters. Because y'know...THAT doesnt take away innocent lives or anything. For the FUN of it no less.
OMGOMGOMG PRO LIFE....lets go shoot and kill some animals.Maybe even pregnant animals. With our kids. Hypocrisy is FUN.
Perry
09-16-2008, 05:34 PM
^^ QFT. I'm just god smacked How someone can be pro-life and then munch burgers and shoot deer.
It's fun, maybe even trendy in some circles to be pro-life. But that's a luxury only rich people, men and politicians get. Many women (and NONE of us as a teen) can afford to have children.
sapphiregirl
09-16-2008, 07:49 PM
Or take away hunting...wolves...from helicopters. Because y'know...THAT doesnt take away innocent lives or anything. For the FUN of it no less.
OMGOMGOMG PRO LIFE....lets go shoot and kill some animals.Maybe even pregnant animals. With our kids. Hypocrisy is FUN.
Very true....Pro Life people love to be Pro War too.
eagle2
09-16-2008, 08:30 PM
How is Sarah Palin less qualified than Obama?
For one thing, Sarah Palin has a journalism degree from the University of Idaho. Obama graduated from Harvard Law School.
eagle2
09-16-2008, 08:55 PM
Sanitize any way you want, pro-choice = pro-abortion. It is not used to describe the right to choose anything but an abortion.
Saying pro-choicers ( and yes, I use "pro-abortion" to antagonize ) aren't pro-abortion because they don't condemn women who choose to have babies is a ridiculous argument.
No it isn't. There are valid reasons for wanting women to have access to safe, legal abortions without actually wanting women to end up in a position where they feel they must end their pregnancy. For one thing, many people don't want to see women mutilated or dead from unsafe, illegal abortions. Apparently, this doesn't seem to be much of a concern for you.
As for wanting to see women not having abortions, those who claim to be against abortion are much more likely to support policies which result in women having more abortions, not less. Those who are opposed to abortion are much more likely to be against teaching teenagers about, and providing access to, contraception and are more likely to be in favor of "abstinence only" sex education, which doesn't work. Sarah Palin daughter proved how big of a failure "abstinence only" education is. Those who are opposed to abortion are more likely to be in favor of cutting assistance to single mother to pay for food, clothing and healthcare. It is for these reasons that the United States, which has a very large anti-abortion movement, has a far greater number of abortions per-capita than liberal countries, such as the Netherlands, where abortions are completely acceptable.
DB Cooper
09-16-2008, 09:57 PM
For one thing, Sarah Palin has a journalism degree from the University of Idaho. Obama graduated from Harvard Law School.
Where he undoubtedly took "How to be President" 101.
Palin and the 'Experience' Canard (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122152769721840385.html)
(snip)
Still, Mr. Gibson's high-toned condescension pales next to that of former Dick Gephardt speechwriter Matthew Dallek, who managed a loud guffaw over Mrs. Palin's supposed inexperience in an interview with Politico.com. "It would be one thing if she had only been governor a year and a half, but prior to that she had not had major experience."
Mr. Dallek is also a presidential historian, so he must have some acquaintance with the career of Calvin Coolidge. When Coolidge was named to Warren Harding's ticket in 1920, he had been governor of Massachusetts for less than two years. Aside from a largely powerless stint as lieutenant governor and other smaller legislative posts, his chief previous government experience was as mayor of Northampton, to which he was first elected in 1910 by a Wasilla-like margin of 1,597 to 1,409.
Another year-and-a-half governor to be nominated for the vice presidency: Teddy Roosevelt. It's true that TR, as a former assistant secretary of the Navy, had more foreign policy experience than Mrs. Palin, though one wonders what today we would make of a candidate whose proud boast was that he had killed an enemy soldier "like a jackrabbit."
Then there is Harry Truman, to whom Mrs. Palin compared herself at the Republican convention. "He had only to open his mouth and his origins were plain," wrote David McCullough in his biography of the 33rd president, in lines that might also have been written about Mrs. Palin. "It wasn't just that he came from a particular part of the country, geographically, but from a specific part of the American experience, an authentic pioneer background, and a specific place in the American imagination."
The Truman comparison seems especially to rankle Mrs. Palin's critics, perhaps because in many respects it rings true. Take vetting. John McCain may have met Mrs. Palin only once before he offered her the job, but Franklin Roosevelt admitted "I hardly know Truman" in July 1944, the same month the "Senator from Pendergast" was put on the Democratic ticket.
(end)
Didn't Sen. Biden premise his presidential candidacy on the notion that Sen. Obama was unqualified and not ready to be president from day one? I believe he also said that Sen. McCain would make a better president.
But really what would qualify anyone to be president? It's a pretty unique job. From the earlier article
(snip)
But as a man who knows whereof he speaks recently observed, "You can argue that nobody is ready to be president. You can argue that even if you've been vice president for eight years, that no one can be fully ready for the pressures of the office."
Wise words, and historically true. If even Bill Clinton can offer such a benediction to an inexperienced candidate, surely Mrs. Palin's critics can do so as well.
(end)
sapphiregirl
09-16-2008, 10:40 PM
This is hilarious....and oh yeah...Bushie never blinks either when making decisions...same, same, same.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184481&title=sarah-palin-wont-blink
bem401
09-17-2008, 05:46 AM
Are you a vegetarian? Enjoying that steak ended a life too. Or is it only potential HUMAN life that matters and all other life can suck it..even though the cow was a fully formed actual creature and not a cluster of parasitic cells.
OK, so now abortion is OK because we eat steak?
Please tell me you are not seriously trying to equate the value of a human life with that of a cow that was bred and raised to be livestock.
bem401
09-17-2008, 06:20 AM
No it isn't. There are valid reasons for wanting women to have access to safe, legal abortions without actually wanting women to end up in a position where they feel they must end their pregnancy.
Give me one valid reason other than rape, incest, or the life of the mother. In my eyes, there is no other reason which justifies what I view as a human life.
For one thing, many people don't want to see women mutilated or dead from unsafe, illegal abortions. Apparently, this doesn't seem to be much of a concern for you.
So let me get this right : I think it should be illegal and you want me to reconsider my position because people would be forced to violate that law in an unsafe environment? By that logic, nothing should be illegal.
As for wanting to see women not having abortions, those who claim to be against abortion are much more likely to support policies which result in women having more abortions, not less. Those who are opposed to abortion are much more likely to be against teaching teenagers about, and providing access to, contraception and are more likely to be in favor of "abstinence only" sex education, which doesn't work. Sarah Palin daughter proved how big of a failure "abstinence only" education is. Those who are opposed to abortion are more likely to be in favor of cutting assistance to single mother to pay for food, clothing and healthcare. It is for these reasons that the United States, which has a very large anti-abortion movement, has a far greater number of abortions per-capita than liberal countries, such as the Netherlands, where abortions are completely acceptable.
Sarah Palin's daughter did not receive "abstinence-only" education. Check your facts. Gov. Palin may support it but it is not currently the practice in Alaska.
Look, I just feel people should be responsible for their own actions. If you are not prepared to deal with the consequences of what you are doing, then don't do it.
yoda57us
09-17-2008, 06:27 AM
Bem, you are free to believe whatever you want of course but being pro choice does not automatically make someone pro abortion. Being pro choice, as I am, means that I beleive it is none of your business, the governments business or even my business what a woman chooses to do with her body. It does not mean that I would want someone to have an abortion, it simply means that it is none of my business.
bem401
09-17-2008, 07:07 AM
Bem, you are free to believe whatever you want of course but being pro choice does not automatically make someone pro abortion.
I disagree. Pro-choice is merely a sanitized way of saying abortion is OK.
You either oppose abortion ( pro-life ) or you do not. I don't see the gray area there that you do.
Nonetheless, this is all academic. It's a topic of discussion here, not a cause in my life. I fully respect that a woman presently has the right to choose but that doesn't mean I agree with it or think that exercising that right is the best thing to do for all concerned.
OMFG, you're not going to win here, bem. I don't hold any illusions about changing your point of view (which has been noted. repeatedly. on several pages). You think it's wrong. Others choose to disagree. You're not going to change my POV, no one will succeed in changing yours. Now, please, drop it or make your own special "abortion is wrong" thread in MO.