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anomar
09-09-2008, 04:13 PM
Ms Mia, I just pmed you. :)

Laylalust
09-09-2008, 05:32 PM
I can't believe people actually think a logical reply to win an argument regarding government issues is they're YOUNG. Last I checked, older = more experienced. Or am I the only 22 year old not dumb enough to ignore my elders?

Seriously. Some of the comments in this thread made my jaw drop. :O
I think I'd rather not have the IRS audit the fuck out of me because one year I just didn't feel like paying taxes because it's "not fair."

Lysondra
09-09-2008, 05:50 PM
I never said I wasn't paying.......... I'm just bitching. Completely legal. :P

Well it's probably not the smartest idea to discuss your desire to tax evade to people on a forum who know your real name and address.

One person here decides they don't like you and you're in tax evasion handcuffs.

keira0304
09-09-2008, 06:09 PM
erm.... no one knows my real name or address. what are you talking about?? I am not tax evading.... I am bitching... there's a difference.

Lysondra
09-09-2008, 06:10 PM
I'm talking about the fact your brawl with your ex was posted in many newspapers with your name and address - a few girls here read that you know. They even told you they knew.

keira0304
09-09-2008, 06:26 PM
PM me the link where it says my real name and address, Lysondra... to my knowledge the only info the newspaper had regarding me was what block of the huge street I live near the arrest happened at.

Ms. Mia Roberts
09-09-2008, 06:35 PM
Saying that you don't want to pay taxes because of the stuff they are funding is a lame excuse. More than 50% of the population (seeing as that's what bush needed to get re-elected) would be bitching about how they shouldn't have to pay taxes because it's going to dying kids in africa and not protecting OUR land and people. It's never ending.

Not everyone is going to be happy with everything ever. Because you can't pick and choose where your tax money goes, you should try to focus on how your money is paying for the new roads that where built that allow you to GET to the club, police officers having the means to come out to your house if you call them while you were being raped or tortured, the parks and reserves that protect the animals and make your city more fun and pretty to live in. There's a lot of good things your money is going towards.

How much is going towards dying children in africa?? that's interesting, i would really like to know.

I'm sure it is. SOME of my money is going to great things...like i said, i wouldn't mind paying THAT MUCH if it was all (or atleast most of it) going towards things that help me, or my community. But i care very much what i'm working and paying to support. I have the right to bitch, moan, whine and complain about how i'm working to support a retard president and a retarded war.

and in all reality, if my tax money was just going towards things like building roads, funding the police force, and helping starving children....THEY WOULDN'T BE SO FREAKIN HIGH!!!!!

Ms. Mia Roberts
09-09-2008, 06:39 PM
And I Never Said I Wasn't Paying Them....this Whole Fuckin Thread Was About ****how*** To Pay Them....not How To Evade Taxes....

Why Is Everyone Shiting Themselves?

keira0304
09-09-2008, 07:06 PM
And I Never Said I Wasn't Paying Them....this Whole Fuckin Thread Was About ****how*** To Pay Them....not How To Evade Taxes....

Why Is Everyone Shiting Themselves?

^seriously.....

RoseLeigh
09-09-2008, 07:10 PM
^^Because it's entitled attitudes about paying taxes that get us all audited. Not just from strippers, but in general. Yeah, we're old, but we've seen a lot.

Joplin
09-09-2008, 07:57 PM
How much is going towards dying children in africa?? that's interesting, i would really like to know.

I'm sure it is. SOME of my money is going to great things...like i said, i wouldn't mind paying THAT MUCH if it was all (or atleast most of it) going towards things that help me, or my community. But i care very much what i'm working and paying to support. I have the right to bitch, moan, whine and complain about how i'm working to support a retard president and a retarded war.

and in all reality, if my tax money was just going towards things like building roads, funding the police force, and helping starving children....THEY WOULDN'T BE SO FREAKIN HIGH!!!!!

I wasn't saying they where going to kids in africa, I was saying that if it wasn't going to the war these past years and was going to dying kids in africa tons of people would be saying "I would be okay with paying taxes if it was going toward good things like our roads, police, global safety, blah blah. I don't think I should have to pay for some kids in africa when I have to protect my own kids from getting killed here at home".

I'm not pro-war o I don't want to hear how bad it is because that's not the point. The point is that there's people using the war as their good excuse to pay taxes and they would use your good excuse to pay taxes as a negative one. It's all circular because you can't make millions of people ALL agree on something. That's why you have to pay taxes when you don't like what it's funding, because when the time comes around when you DO like what the money is funding you'll want others to support your cause and pay up. You can't have it both ways.

keira0304
09-09-2008, 08:13 PM
this is what i'm doing in april: http://www.codepink4peace.org/article.php?list=type&type=338

I read about it in utne last year (original article): http://www.utne.com/2008-01-01/Politics/Heartland-I-Wont-Pay-My-Taxes-If-You-Wont-Pay-Yours.aspx?page=2

Lysondra
09-09-2008, 08:17 PM
this is what i'm doing in april: http://www.codepink4peace.org/article.php?list=type&type=338

I read about it in utne last year (original article): http://www.utne.com/2008-01-01/Politics/Heartland-I-Wont-Pay-My-Taxes-If-You-Wont-Pay-Yours.aspx?page=2

AHAHAHAH OMG THT FIRST LINK.

"I'm not paying my taxes and here's a letter why"

So now you did just admit you're planning tax evasion.

dangerousdiva
09-09-2008, 08:18 PM
also... the majority of the people in this thread are near their 30s or retired dancers... it would only make sense that people that age are worried about proof of income and being able to buy a house and car....but we're still teenagers and in school- why not just do what most normal college students do and go to school, use money stripping to pay for school and THEN when we start our careers- pay taxes on that. THAT would be fair... specially because the gov. system is screwing us over right now with lack of financial aid, fafsa qualifications, independent status, residency requirements, taxes on EVERYTHING, etc,etc.

just sayin.... you guys are old. we're young... I'm sure you didn't pay 12K to the government when you were 18 and dancing to get by on your own.

You're right I didn't. I was privileged enough to have my parents put me through college and I stripped for shopping money but I did pay my taxes :P

However, you're right most young college students don't pay $12k to the government. They take out $25k + in government loans to go to college, that they pay back when they're older with interest.

Seems to me you got a pretty sweet deal also considering tuition is exempt from taxes.

keira0304
09-09-2008, 08:25 PM
AHAHAHAH OMG THT FIRST LINK.

"I'm not paying my taxes and here's a letter why"

So now you did just admit you're planning tax evasion.

but it's a tiny percentage and hundreds of thousands of people have signed the pledge to do it too......read the whole site and article. Say I'm owe 8K, I'll pay 7,500 and include a nice letter :)

I'm stubborn. it's just an idea.....relax.

anomar
09-09-2008, 08:27 PM
this is what i'm doing in april:

I read about it in utne last year (original article):

Dude, you should just aim to not be in the country anymore in April.

Lysondra
09-09-2008, 08:35 PM
I'm just shocked people actually don't pay their taxes and then write a friendly little letter.

"I'm sorry Mr. Government, I don't wanna pay my taxes because I don't like you. Please don't arrest me."

keira0304
09-09-2008, 09:03 PM
^ still waiting for your pm.....

Lysondra
09-09-2008, 09:23 PM
Because the link I originally had was from a paper that deletes articles after a little bit of time so it's not online anymore.

keira0304
09-09-2008, 09:26 PM
^well then there isn't a problem... is there. I scoured the internet right after it happened for info and the only personally incriminating information I found was HIS full name and the block of the huge street i live on. No worries.

Yekhefah
09-09-2008, 09:35 PM
Keira, I am fairly confident that I could obtain your full name and address with minimal effort if I were so inclined. You're kind of an open book around here. If this thread imbues you with a bit of paranoia, then it has served its purpose and then some.

Lysondra
09-09-2008, 09:36 PM
I can't believe with how much you've been through in your life, you're still this naive.

Ms. Mia Roberts
09-09-2008, 11:15 PM
I can't believe that i asked how to pay my taxes...and this is what the thread has become...thats awesome

MichelleJade
09-10-2008, 12:00 AM
I'm 19, and I thought I was pretty damn naive... not as much as I thought.

As technology improves, so does the ways of getting caught. Just about everything these days goes into a big computer. You're old enough to vote, so if you don't like it, just find someone who shares your pain and try your best to change things. I guess that's really all you can do... but yes, taxes, a necessary evil.

I find keeping ties with my parents is particularly helpful in this stage of life...

Oh yeah, another thing, going to a community college is great when money is tight. I mean, it's not quite as grand as a university, but $74 a credit hour... I can't complain too much.

jaizaine
09-10-2008, 09:32 AM
LOL. I hate paying taxes too. Every quarter I have to pay the ATO. But that is life and I'm not a tax evader. I actually get quite annoyed with people who don't pay their taxes.

Tax MINIMISATION is perfectly legal. Get a good accountant to help you with this, as I do.

Tax EVASION is illegal. I think of people who dont pay their taxes as sort of parasites or at least free loaders. They live in society piggybacked by those of us who do the right thing.

AlexxaHex
09-14-2008, 12:02 PM
I'm so old I forgot that 19 year olds were exempt from the law.

My apologies.

Carry on!

Ahahahaha!!

You know she's not even listening. It's like, why bother?

SohoBaby
09-14-2008, 09:31 PM
Man, you guys need to relax. Ms. Mia Roberts said herself that she didn't know too much about taxes and she was just asking for advice and giving her opinion. Personally, I think it's bullshit too. And we are all entitled to our opinions, are we not? So maybe you can stop giving her the third degree because she said something along the lines of 'That's doo doo' WHICH IS HER OWN opinion.

dangerousdiva
09-14-2008, 09:47 PM
^ Actually most of the opposition in this thread was to Keira's post saying that only the old (as in over 30) should worry about paying taxes and people that are putting themselves through school should not have to pay ::)

Ms. Mia Roberts
09-14-2008, 10:16 PM
Man, you guys need to relax. Ms. Mia Roberts said herself that she didn't know too much about taxes and she was just asking for advice and giving her opinion. Personally, I think it's bullshit too. And we are all entitled to our opinions, are we not? So maybe you can stop giving her the third degree because she said something along the lines of 'That's doo doo' WHICH IS HER OWN opinion.

Thanks soho, but this thread has just taken a whole nother turn...lol...anyway....HOW U BEEN??? where u been??? haven't heard from you in a while hehe!

rooomie
09-18-2008, 09:16 AM
I wonder why I never thought to just decide it wasn't "fair" that I had to pay taxes?

Oh yeah, it's because my parents taught me that life just isn't fair. That's reality. Welcome to adulthood, it's not all booze and good times. None of us like paying taxes; I went without healthcare while I was dying of asthma and living below the poverty line while over 40% of my income went to provide free healthcare and other benefits for illegal aliens in California. Not fair one bit, I agree. It's total bullshit. Unfortunately the government has the guns and the jails and the authority (however illegitimate) to garnish the other 60% if I don't play along.

This is the country that the American electorate created. All of a sudden conservatives make a little more sense, huh? We're not all rich old meanies who don't want anyone to have a good time, we're taxpayers who would rather pay for our own schooling and healthcare than everyone else's. Churchill said anyone who wasn't a liberal at 17 had no heart, and anyone who wasn't a conservative at 30 had no brain. Me, I quit being a liberal when I started paying taxes. I got my first paycheck when I was 15, looked at a sizeable deduction for Social Security that I knew I'd never get, and suddenly understood that it was all bullshit.

That doesn't make it optional.

You don't want to pay so much in taxes, vote for Bob Barr. But you don't get to just skip it.

Oh, and for the record, I did report every penny I made and paid taxes correctly when I was a college student. I supported myself as a waitress, claimed my tips, paid my own tuition, and lived right at the poverty line, and paid my taxes because it beat getting caught NOT paying them.

Wow.. you are my hero today!

Nuclear Martini
09-24-2008, 07:56 AM
That's why a lot of dancers "only make 30k!". LOL


So where would you put/keep all of the other money without raising any redflags?

I'm trying to save to go back to college in one of the most expensive cities in the country, am I doomed?

Melonie
09-24-2008, 03:05 PM
So where would you put/keep all of the other money without raising any redflags?

under your mattress ... in your personal safe ...




I'm trying to save to go back to college in one of the most expensive cities in the country, am I doomed?

not until you actually go back to college ... and the bursar's office reports to the IRS that it received $10k-$15k-$20k in tuition payment for which there aren't any matching tax returns to explain where the $10k-$15k-$20k came from in the first place.

Nuclear Martini
09-24-2008, 05:50 PM
Wow, Melonie you're so knoledgeable, its great. Where did you learn all of this? Was it through trial and error or did you study some kind of finance?

Melonie
09-25-2008, 03:29 AM
well let's just say that more trials were involved than errors LOL !

AudreyLeigh
09-25-2008, 04:42 PM
And I Never Said I Wasn't Paying Them....this Whole Fuckin Thread Was About ****how*** To Pay Them....not How To Evade Taxes....

Why Is Everyone Shiting Themselves?

Mia. The best thing to do is put 35% of your income into a savings account for taxes. Better to put too much than not enough. Save receipts for everything dance related.

You have to pay a quarterly estimate on your income. So, if you make $10,000 in the first quarter you will "guess" that your income for the year will be $40,000. So you will pay taxes ON the $10,000 IN the $40,000 tax bracket.

I would advise to get a good accountant and not go to H&R Block. Read a lot around Dollar Den - there are dozens of threads on taxes.

I use a spreadsheet for my income. I put my take home (after tipping out) along with hours worked, etc.
I also used a seperate spreadsheet for tax write offs.... I made all dancer related purchases seperate from other purchases so that it makes it easier. I had a folder that I put all receipts in - at the end of the quarter after paying your estimate staple them together with the tax quarter note and put them in another folder.

The last question is - since youre 18 are your parents claiming you on THEIR taxes? Usually parents do that until you hit (22? I cannot remember the age) or get married or have a baby. Make sure they aren't or you're going to have a mess on your hands.

Ms. Mia Roberts
09-26-2008, 11:29 AM
Mia. The best thing to do is put 35% of your income into a savings account for taxes. Better to put too much than not enough. Save receipts for everything dance related.

You have to pay a quarterly estimate on your income. So, if you make $10,000 in the first quarter you will "guess" that your income for the year will be $40,000. So you will pay taxes ON the $10,000 IN the $40,000 tax bracket.

I would advise to get a good accountant and not go to H&R Block. Read a lot around Dollar Den - there are dozens of threads on taxes.

I use a spreadsheet for my income. I put my take home (after tipping out) along with hours worked, etc.
I also used a seperate spreadsheet for tax write offs.... I made all dancer related purchases seperate from other purchases so that it makes it easier. I had a folder that I put all receipts in - at the end of the quarter after paying your estimate staple them together with the tax quarter note and put them in another folder.

The last question is - since youre 18 are your parents claiming you on THEIR taxes? Usually parents do that until you hit (22? I cannot remember the age) or get married or have a baby. Make sure they aren't or you're going to have a mess on your hands.

Thank you very much :thanx:

AudreyLeigh
09-26-2008, 11:43 AM
^^^ You're welcome!

Hopper
02-08-2010, 12:27 AM
It's not illegal not to pay income tax.

The term "income" in income tax legislation is a legal term having special meaning defined for that particular legislation, different to the meaning we give it in everyday language. United States income tax legislation defines "income" as "income derived from earnings". Your earnings therefore do not qualify as income for taxation under this definition, only other "income" which is directly derived from your earnings in some way.

However, this definition is buried in the back of the regulations and the IRS allows people to file returns on the assumption that "income" means earnings. They will of course even take you to court and if successful jail you for not paying tax on earnings.

But that does not mean you are actually breaking the law. The IRS is breaking the law by enforcing it. In fact the income tax itself breaks a number of Constitutional laws just by existing. There is also evidence that the law was never properly ratified.

The IRS knows that most Americans don't have to file tax returns. This is why the terms "self-assessment" and "voluntary coompliance" are used in regard to filing returns. However, if you do file a return, you have voluntarily enterred into a contract with the IRS to pay. If you have been filing returns under the belief that you were required to pay tax on earnings and then on next financial year you do not file a return to declare your earnings, the IRS may sue you for filing a false return the previous times.

For those of you who think the government will collapse or that important government services (whatever they are) will without income tax: The income tax was enacted in the U.S. in 1913 and was only paid by about 3% of the population, and was at a much lower rate, until 1942 when it was changed to help finance the war. From 1789 to 1942 the government was not short of revenue, even after FDR brought in huge welfare programs. The government has always had other sources of revenue than income tax, such as tariffs, excises, duties, imposts and alcohol and tobacco taxes. These are sufficient for financing the government.

Of course, it helps if the government is restricted to it's Constitutional powers instead of expanding into numerous agencies with numerous services, programmes and projects and refrains from declaring wars for the smallest non-excuse.

From 1942, however, the income tax was never used for revenue, it was used to counter inflation (caused by government printing of money) by mopping up the purchasing power of the population. This still means, however, that your income tax still indirectly goes toward financing the government, since the government has to print that money because it borrows money from the Federal Reserve. Citizens are still footing the bill - via both inflation and income tax.

Don't worry about being jailed. If you lose, you don't go to the slammer for twenty years, you go to a prison farm with all the conveniences of home and then some for a few months.

There are many articles and accounts of people contesting the IRS which you can look for on the internet if you want to research all of this. Here is one. I bet there are loads of anti-establishment "computer geeks" out there waiting for topics like this to hunt after. Many have long been doing so.

Melonie
02-08-2010, 04:21 AM
Don't worry about being jailed. If you lose, you don't go to the slammer for twenty years, you go to a prison farm with all the conveniences of home and then some for a few months.

Maybe. But you didn't mention that when they finally let you out of prison, you won't have a home left to come home to ... nor a car, nor any savings / investments, because these will all be confiscated in (partial) satisfaction of unpaid income tax obligations.

For the record, while there is some theoretical basis for the above claims re US Income Tax, for a fact the IRS and US tax courts do not agree with this interpretation !!!

Hopper
02-08-2010, 06:05 AM
Maybe. But you didn't mention that when they finally let you out of prison, you won't have a home left to come home to ... nor a car, nor any savings / investments, because these will all be confiscated in (partial) satisfaction of unpaid income tax obligations.

Then why do you have to do time in jail? If you think it's a problem, put your assets under another's name or transfer them overseas.

Despite how much the government and the media are vilifying transfer of funds out of the country, it is not illegal. All you have to do is notify the IRS via the appropriate form that you have done so. Corporations routinely do it. The media campaign against it is not truly aimed at them, it is aimed at you. The elites don't want you to have the financial advantages they enjoy.

People have fought this and some have won, some not. The IRS is scared to deal too harshly in such cases, since they know that the sentences are contrary to what the law says. They know that if they push the defendants too hard and there could be too much noise and consequently danger of word finally getting out to the whole population. A person with nothing to lose might be a real threat in this regard.


For the record, while there is some theoretical basis for the above claims re US Income Tax, for a fact the IRS and US tax courts do not agree with this interpretation !!!

Of course they don't, and courts have convicted people contesting the income tax despite what the law says. But the whole point of your country is that it doesn't matter what the government and the courts think.

Remember the Prohibition on alcohol? We are told that after some time the government finally repealled the Prohibition. We are rarely told why. The people liked their drink, so in case after case many juries refused to convict. Of course this made the law of no effect. THEN the government repealled it.

Judges don't decide the law, juries do. Judges are merely there to advise the jury on the law. That is what "tried by a jury of your peers" means. Note - not "tried by a judge". Your judicial system, through subversion, has reverted to putting judges in charge, way up on a pedestal.

The jury is not requried to base their verdict on what the law says. If the law says that the defendant is guilty and the jury thinks no crime has been committed, the jury may aquit. The jury may judge the law.

That's how it went during the Prohibition.

Say you are on a jury in an IRS case. For the defendent to be convicted, the jury's decision must be unanimous. So you vote to aquit. You don't have to justify your decision, no matter how much the other jurists and the judge pressure you to change it (and they will). You can just sit there and smile stupidly.

It doesn't matter how the IRS interprets the law and you can change the law. All that is needed is for the people to have the knowledge.

Melonie
02-08-2010, 03:22 PM
^^^ actually, there is a lot more needed than that. First of all, about $50,000 is needed to pursue a defense against the IRS which eventually forces the case out of IRS tax courts ( where an administrative judge decides the outcome ) and into a US federal court ( where a jury decides the outcome ). Second, a source of 'cost of living money' is needed while the IRS freezes all of your assets for the duration of the trial. Again I'm not arguing your theoretical point of constitutional law ... I am merely pointing out the real world ramifications. And where constitutional law principles are concerned, they seem to be far less respected this year than in previous years if the current gov't deems the pursuit of an arguably unconstitutional course of action to be in the 'greater public interest' ... which in this specific case means screwing corporate bondholders of bailed-out corporation or collecting every additional income tax dollar they can lay their hands on ( even if those dollars are in a UBS Swiss bank account ).

eagle2
02-08-2010, 10:02 PM
To anyone reading this thread, please do not listen to what Hopper is saying. It is against the law to not pay income taxes if you owe income taxes. The maximum penalty for refusing to pay income tax is 5 years in prison and/or fines of up to $100,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_avoidance_and_tax_evasion#Definition_of_tax_ev asion_in_the_United_States

Do not take his advice or you may end up in serious trouble with the law.

eagle2
02-08-2010, 10:58 PM
Here's one example of a person who stopped paying taxes in 1992 after he came to the conclusion that the Internal Revenue Service could not legally demand he pay tax. He's now facing 30 years in prison.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/080108dnmettax.1f2c185f.html

Hopper
02-09-2010, 03:40 AM
To anyone reading this thread, please do not listen to what Hopper is saying. It is against the law to not pay income taxes if you owe income taxes. The maximum penalty for refusing to pay income tax is 5 years in prison and/or fines of up to $100,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_avoidance_and_tax_evasion#Definition_of_tax_ev asion_in_the_United_States

Do not take his advice or you may end up in serious trouble with the law.

The article says those penalties apply if you owe taxes. I am contending that most people who think they do don't.

Nobody will take on the IRS merely on the basis of what I posted here. I expect they would first investigate my claims to confirm them.

Hopper
02-09-2010, 03:50 AM
^^^ actually, there is a lot more needed than that. First of all, about $50,000 is needed to pursue a defense against the IRS which eventually forces the case out of IRS tax courts ( where an administrative judge decides the outcome ) and into a US federal court ( where a jury decides the outcome ). Second, a source of 'cost of living money' is needed while the IRS freezes all of your assets for the duration of the trial. Again I'm not arguing your theoretical point of constitutional law ... I am merely pointing out the real world ramifications.

I think what one mainly needs is a reliable lawyer who is familiar with the actual legal issues involved. What is the $50,000 for exctly? An administrative or court fee, or is that the expected cost of the defense?

I know that there are costs, inconveniences and dangers which must be prepared for. Here I am just concerned with providing people with the information and perspective which will lead eventually to people waking up and taking some sort of action. At present, most people don't even know anything is wrong and believe there is nothing they could do if there were.


And where constitutional law principles are concerned, they seem to be far less respected this year than in previous years if the current gov't deems the pursuit of an arguably unconstitutional course of action to be in the 'greater public interest' ... which in this specific case means screwing corporate bondholders of bailed-out corporation or collecting every additional income tax dollar they can lay their hands on ( even if those dollars are in a UBS Swiss bank account ).

I submit that what the government does from the safety of the White House is different to what the government would do when faced with a real threat - a citizen contesting their scam in court. Regardless of how bought the judges are - and they are bought. The wise thing for them might be to let the citizen off relatively lightly. Some people have actually won these cases probably for this reason.

Since you obviously make it your business to be informed about financial matters, I'd be interested to know what you know about the income tax issue. Have you posted on this before at this site?

Hopper
02-09-2010, 03:58 AM
Here's one example of a person who stopped paying taxes in 1992 after he came to the conclusion that the Internal Revenue Service could not legally demand he pay tax. He's now facing 30 years in prison.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/080108dnmettax.1f2c185f.html

The article says "up to" 30 years. Which is still odd because the Wiki article you linked in your previous post says "up to 5 years".

eagle2
02-09-2010, 11:20 PM
There are probably multiple counts against him. He was doing this for more than 15 years.