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Eric Stoner
09-09-2008, 12:33 PM
Well this guy did a critique of book. (http://www.volokh.com/posts/1164012942.shtml) He makes some valid points but nothing that outright refutes the book's premise. I would like to see more studies from both sides though. Just one on each side isn't really damning evidence one way or another.

That's the point ! There is currently NOTHING showing that "Libs" or "moderates" are MORE gfenerous than conservatives regardless of which database is used. That was the focus of the critique in the link you provided. It did NOT refute a single one of Brooks conclusions. It simply nitpicked the database he used without SHOWING that the GSS or ANES would have been more reliable or accurate.

sapphiregirl
09-09-2008, 12:34 PM
One thing I do remember about the tv special and I found it sad.....Is that the SUPER rich donate.... but they also waste hundreds of thousands of dollars just to have a party so they feel like they are being generous for a cause.

Miss_Luscious
09-09-2008, 12:43 PM
That's the point ! There is currently NOTHING showing that "Libs" or "moderates" are MORE gfenerous than conservatives regardless of which database is used. That was the focus of the critique in the link you provided. It did NOT refute a single one of Brooks conclusions. It simply nitpicked the database he used without SHOWING that the GSS or ANES would have been more reliable or accurate.

Dude, calm down, I was agreeing with you. I just provided the link for anyone who was interested in seeing a critique since it was asked for. What the heck is wrong with you?

sapphiregirl
09-09-2008, 12:45 PM
That's the point ! There is currently NOTHING showing that "Libs" or "moderates" are MORE gfenerous than conservatives regardless of which database is used. That was the focus of the critique in the link you provided. It did NOT refute a single one of Brooks conclusions. It simply nitpicked the database he used without SHOWING that the GSS or ANES would have been more reliable or accurate.


My bet is on Democrats....

Republicans give to their churches.



I remember part of that special had 2 different cities in it.....One was San Francisco and I forget the other. They put someone ringing a bell outside of two stores in a liberal city and conservative city asking for donations at Christmas. The people in San Francisco walked by the bell ringer while people in the conservative city put money in his pot.


I'm sorry but that does not prove SQUAT. I go to San Francisco all the time and I would never put money in a pot of person ringing a bell. Those salvation army people drive me crazy with that bell at Christmas. Good for those people who do....But I am the person who will go into a restaurant an order 2 meals. One for me and one for the homeless person outside on the street. There is a lot of homeless in San Francisco and I will not give them money because I know they will buy booze but I will buy them dinner. It's never on my taxes....give me a break...I do it to be compassionate. I would have been labeled as a tightwad according to that special.



I also do the AIDS/Lifecycle ride every year. By far the most AWESOME thing I've ever done with my life. Freaking fantastic..will change your life...everyone should do it once... Although, I raised thousands of dollars for the San Francisco AIDS Foundation....My SUPER rich uncle and good friend of 18 years did not donate a dime or even wish me luck on the ride. They are the most selfish people I have ever met...and Republican.

Eric Stoner
09-09-2008, 12:47 PM
ahahahahaha!

I never said one party or the other donates more. YOU DID. I have nothing to prove. Not to you or anyone else. You might as well get used to this fact and drop that little self absorbed, self important attitude you've got going on here.

I am not the one claiming things to be gospel truth. You are! Why do I need to disprove a claim YOU made and CAN'T or WON'T prove? Pfft. Get real, lol! The reality that you can't/won't prove it is proof enough ;)

Wait, why am I even responding to your stupid attention seeking bullshit anyway? Opps. Must try not to make that mistake in the future.

You're a scream ! Every time one of your cherished positions or biases gets debunked or is exposed as lacking factual support , you jump up and shout : "I don't have to prove anything ! ".

Who asked you to ? You either have facts to support your opinions or you don 't. You can either cite FACTS or you can't. It's YOUR CHOICE whether or not to do it. No one is twisting your arm. However, since you continually fail ( or REFUSE ) to back up your arguments with facts, then I ( and anyone else who is remotely interested ) am free to conclude that you don't have any. Because nothing would deflate an argument you disagree with more (or in a better way ) than FACTS, " information" , "data", call it whatever you like supporting your contrary view. AFaic your "refusal" to do so is nothing more than a charade; a pretense to cover your inability to do so.

"Richard Head" is the perfect example of someone who tries to back up what he says and it's why I respect him and his views notwithstanding the fact that we often disagree.

Eric Stoner
09-09-2008, 12:48 PM
Dude, calm down, I was agreeing with you. I just provided the link for anyone who was interested in seeing a critique since it was asked for. What the heck is wrong with you?

My apologies. I misunderstood the thrust of your post.

Eric Stoner
09-09-2008, 12:52 PM
One thing I do remember about the tv special and I found it sad.....Is that the SUPER rich donate.... but they also waste hundreds of thousands of dollars just to have a party so they feel like they are being generous for a cause.

They "waste" money throwing parties ? Like the DNC; and NARAL; and GMHC and hundreds of other worthy organizations and causes have sponsors that "waste" money throwing fundraisers ? Well, at least it gives the idle rich somewhere to go and something to do

Miss_Luscious
09-09-2008, 12:52 PM
My apologies. I misunderstood the thrust of your post.
That's better. Don't get out of line again.:bullwhip:

Zia_Abq
09-09-2008, 12:54 PM
Who asked you to ?


one last comment then I am done with your worthless ass.

You did. Your exact words were: "Prove it. That's right . Come up with some actual EVIDENCE to refute Brooks and show that Liberal Dems donate more."

I win :dance: you lose

LOL!

bye bye :wave:

bem401
09-09-2008, 12:59 PM
I'm making room for you ES on ZA's Ignore List (right next to me). I'm sure it will start to get crowded if people insist on arguing using facts and things like that.

Eric Stoner
09-09-2008, 01:02 PM
My bet is on Democrats....

Republicans give to their churches.



I remember part of that special had 2 different cities in it.....One was San Francisco and I forget the other. They put someone ringing a bell outside of two stores in a liberal city and conservative city asking for donations at Christmas. The people in San Francisco walked by the bell ringer while people in the conservative city put money in his pot.


I'm sorry but that does not prove SQUAT. I go to San Francisco all the time and I would never put money in a pot of person ringing a bell. Those salvation army people drive me crazy with that bell at Christmas. Good for those people who do....But I am the person who will go into a restaurant an order 2 meals. One for me and one for the homeless person outside on the street. There is a lot of homeless in San Francisco and I will not give them money because I know they will buy booze but I will buy them dinner. It's never on my taxes....give me a break...I do it to be compassionate. I would have been labeled as a tightwad according to that special.



I also do the AIDS/Lifecycle ride every year. By far the most AWESOME thing I've ever done with my life. Freaking fantastic..will change your life...everyone should do it once... Although, I raised thousands of dollars for the San Francisco AIDS Foundation....My SUPER rich uncle and good friend of 18 years did not donate a dime or even wish me luck on the ride. They are the most selfish people I have ever met...and Republican.

Again you're confusing anecdotal evidence and experience with documented , reputable research. Your own personal experience does not jive with the overall conclusions. No one said the discrepancy was either universal or uniform.
Btw, the other city in the ABC "20-20" piece was Sioux Falls and that was THEIR own little experiment. It had NOTHING to do with Brooks' book. I for one was not surprised that a bastion of "liberalism" was less generous at Christmas time. I dopn't think it was as "demonstrative" as other examples would have been.

But suppose they had two groups of volunteers in both cities standing on street corners or going door to door raising money for an AIDS service organization ?. I'd like to see which city would come up with more cash. My GUESS would be San Fran.

Then I'd like to see a third test with a totally secular; apolitical cause like the ASPCA or the Red Cross and see which city REALLY had the most generous donors.

Eric Stoner
09-09-2008, 01:03 PM
That's better. Don't get out of line again.:bullwhip:

Yes Maam. May I please be excused ?

Eric Stoner
09-09-2008, 01:05 PM
one last comment then I am done with your worthless ass.

You did. Your exact words were: "Prove it. That's right . Come up with some actual EVIDENCE to refute Brooks and show that Liberal Dems donate more."

I win :dance: you lose

LOL!

bye bye :wave:

Yeah but you couldn't be bothered. Proving what exactly ?

sapphiregirl
09-09-2008, 01:08 PM
Again you're confusing anecdotal evidence and experience with documented , reputable research. Your own personal experience does not jive with the overall conclusions. No one said the discrepancy was either universal or uniform.
Btw, the other city in the ABC "20-20" piece was Sioux Falls and that was THEIR own little experiment. It had NOTHING to do with Brooks' book. I for one was not surprised that a bastion of "liberalism" was less generous at Christmas time. I dopn't think it was as "demonstrative" as other examples would have been.

But suppose they had two groups of volunteers in both cities standing on street corners or going door to door raising money for an AIDS service organization ?. I'd like to see which city would come up with more cash. My GUESS would be San Fran.

Then I'd like to see a third test with a totally secular; apolitical cause like the ASPCA or the Red Cross and see which city REALLY had the most generous donors.



I have a lot of my own personal evidence over the years....All the way down to a Mother in the Peace Corps.

I've only said my "gut feeling" anyway.

Eric Stoner
09-09-2008, 01:10 PM
I'm making room for you ES on ZA's Ignore List (right next to me). I'm sure it will start to get crowded if people insist on arguing using facts and things like that.

Well. Like the man being ridden out of town on a rail " if it weren't for the honor of the thing, I'd rather not." Point being, I prefer a healthy discussion where folks at least TRY to buttress their arguments with facts. And I think it ought to be said that most posters here do exactly that. I cited "Richard" as the perfect example, and it's why I respect him and his views, because he at least TRIES to engage in civil discourse without losing his passion for his views.

bem401
09-09-2008, 01:21 PM
Well. Like the man being ridden out of town on a rail " if it weren't for the honor of the thing, I'd rather not." Point being, I prefer a healthy discussion where folks at least TRY to buttress their arguments with facts. And I think it ought to be said that most posters here do exactly that. I cited "Richard" as the perfect example, and it's why I respect him and his views, because he at least TRIES to engage in civil discourse without losing his passion for his views.

You're preaching to the choir, brother.

"Richard" certainly gets an "A" for effort despite the fact that I sometimes wonder whether he lives on the same planet as me. He does try to support his position with evidence, something apparently that everyone is not willing to do.

sapphiregirl
09-09-2008, 01:37 PM
You're preaching to the choir, brother.

"Richard" certainly gets an "A" for effort despite the fact that I sometimes wonder whether he lives on the same planet as me. He does try to support his position with evidence, something apparently that everyone is not willing to do.



What evidence.....He has NO EVIDENCE.....;D

bem401
09-09-2008, 01:47 PM
What evidence.....He has NO EVIDENCE.....;D

???????

What are we talking about?

I'm talking about Richard_Head, who I believe you usuallly agree with.

Are you saying now you don't agree with him?

sapphiregirl
09-09-2008, 02:01 PM
???????

What are we talking about?

I'm talking about Richard_Head, who I believe you usuallly agree with.

Are you saying now you don't agree with him?



I dont think here is evidence on either side....



Awww heck......Sarah Palin needs to step up and do an interview or debate so we have another subject to pick apart other than clothing and donations.

bem401
09-09-2008, 02:05 PM
I dont think here is evidence on either side....



Awww heck......Sarah Palin needs to step up and do an interview or debate so we have another subject to pick apart other than clothing and donations.

My comments to Eric and to you had nothing to do with this thread. I think you are confused. If not, I am. Reread the last dozen or so posts.

sapphiregirl
09-09-2008, 02:21 PM
My comments to Eric and to you had nothing to do with this thread. I think you are confused. If not, I am. Reread the last dozen or so posts.


You obviously don't understand where I am coming and I don't understand where you are coming from...sooo???

kitana
09-09-2008, 02:51 PM
It was inferred not stated. Unless, of course, his comments were meant as a compliment.

Exactly.

It's not as much the words as the tone and context of the sentence.

Miss_Luscious
09-09-2008, 04:03 PM
But suppose they had two groups of volunteers in both cities standing on street corners or going door to door raising money for an AIDS service organization ?. I'd like to see which city would come up with more cash. My GUESS would be San Fran.

Then I'd like to see a third test with a totally secular; apolitical cause like the ASPCA or the Red Cross and see which city REALLY had the most generous donors.

I'd like to see this too. When you take religion out of it, then what happens? That would be very interesting. I am a liberal and no, I don't donate money but I do donate my time, household goods, and clothes. I've run a program for young mothers and I've advocated on behalf of other organizations for free. I'd rather do my duties that way than writing a check because I can't really see my efforts being utilized.

But um, back on topic. Obama is not an elitist.

Eric Stoner
09-10-2008, 12:07 PM
I'd like to see this too. When you take religion out of it, then what happens? That would be very interesting. I am a liberal and no, I don't donate money but I do donate my time, household goods, and clothes. I've run a program for young mothers and I've advocated on behalf of other organizations for free. I'd rather do my duties that way than writing a check because I can't really see my efforts being utilized.

But um, back on topic. Obama is not an elitist.

Donated time was also measured in comparing "conservative" donors to "liberals".

Eric Stoner
09-10-2008, 12:12 PM
You're preaching to the choir, brother.

"Richard" certainly gets an "A" for effort despite the fact that I sometimes wonder whether he lives on the same planet as me. He does try to support his position with evidence, something apparently that everyone is not willing to do.

While not as insulting as some of the garbage sent our way; it's still not necessary to talk about Richard and his co-thinkers living on "another planet".
Let's avoid the personal insults and leave them to Zia and others for all those times when words fail them.

bem401
09-10-2008, 12:15 PM
While not as insulting as some of the garbage sent our way; it's still not necessary to talk about Richard and his co-thinkers living on "another planet".
Let's avoid the personal insults and leave them to Zia and others for all those times when words fail them.

The comment was intended tongue-in-cheek and I'm sure he feels the same way towards me. It was nothing more than a playful jab.

Richard_Head
09-10-2008, 07:07 PM
The comment was intended tongue-in-cheek and I'm sure he feels the same way towards me. It was nothing more than a playful jab.bem is right, I'm fine with it as long as I'm not called a "pig with lips", then all hell will break loose because apparently that is very demeaning.

bem401
09-11-2008, 06:17 AM
bem is right, I'm fine with it as long as I'm not called a "pig with lips", then all hell will break loose because apparently that is very demeaning.

I don't think Obama meant it as an insult, but I don't think it showed very good judgment to use words that he should have realized could be thrown back at him.
What if he proves to be this careless once he takes office?

The Dems have to be very careful this campaign not to make statements that can perceived as sexist, just as the Reps have to be careful not to say things that can be perceived as racist.

Eric Stoner
09-11-2008, 08:55 AM
I don't think Obama meant it as an insult, but I don't think it showed very good judgment to use words that he should have realized could be thrown back at him.
What if he proves to be this careless once he takes office?

The Dems have to be very careful this campaign not to make statements that can perceived as sexist, just as the Reps have to be careful not to say things that can be perceived as racist.

This illiustrates why this whole thing is a ridiculous farce. Putting all of Clinton's lies on the shelf ; Reagan and both Bushes, (specially the current occupant) were ALL guilty of inappropriate remarks from time to time. Yesterday, I listened to a litany of quotes and soundbites where just about any politician you could think of used that phrase ( "put lipstick on a pig" ) and ONLY Obama meant it as an insult
to someone specific ???? It is what it is. A cheap shot by McCain's campaign and their sychphants in the press.

bem401
09-11-2008, 09:04 AM
This illiustrates why this whole thing is a ridiculous farce. Putting all of Clinton's lies on the shelf ; Reagan and both Bushes, (specially the current occupant) were ALL guilty of inappropriate remarks from time to time. Yesterday, I listened to a litany of quotes and soundbites where just about any politician you could think of used that phrase ( "put lipstick on a pig" ) and ONLY Obama meant it as an insult
to someone specific ???? It is what it is. A cheap shot by McCain's campaign and their sychphants in the press.

Agreed 100%, but his "crime" , if you will, was making himself vulnerable in the first place.

If she's smart, she'll dismiss it as meaningless when asked to comment about it by Charles Gibson, as she undoubtedly will be.

Zia_Abq
09-11-2008, 09:15 AM
Back to topic

In all honesty, it’s not so much the whole elitism thing that bothers me so much as it is them out of touch with the reality of what American’s are by and large dealing with out here.

I think a leader should have an understanding and some real compassion for the hardships of his or her people. Unlike Obama and the Dems in general, the GOP and thus the McCain’s just don’t seem to me to comprehend those matters.

bem401
09-11-2008, 09:25 AM
Back to topic

In all honesty, it’s not so much the whole elitism thing that bothers me so much as it is them out of touch with the reality of what American’s are by and large dealing with out here.

I think a leader should have an understanding and some real compassion for the hardships of his or her people. Unlike Obama and the Dems in general, the GOP and thus the McCain’s just don’t seem to me to comprehend those matters.

Any chance of a fact or two to support your claim?

If you're talking about candidates' backgrounds, McCain and Biden are career politicians and the Obamas are products of a privileged education. That leaves Palin, who would seem to be closer to being a "middle-American" than the others.

sapphiregirl
09-12-2008, 09:09 PM
Does Obama party on yachts? I want a yacht...lol

John McCain partying on a yacht for his 70th Birthday. He is only partying with a criminal and a top washington lobbyist - a lobbyist who just happens to now be running his campaign now.

Yep.....he is going to Washington to be a maverick against lobbyists....I have total confidence!




New York, 11:59 PM
Fri Sep 12





next » (http://gawker.com/5048566/celebrities-weigh-in-on-september-11th)


Picture This: John McCain Visits Criminal's Yacht (http://gawker.com/5048485/picture-this-john-mccain-visits-criminals-yacht)

http://gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2008/09/mccainRF5.jpgMy oh my, look what has "surfaced," as they say: A photo of populist war hero presidential candidate John McCain (http://gawker.com/tag/john-mccain/) lumbering his way onto Raffaello Follieri (http://gawker.com/tag/raffaello-follieri/)'s yacht in Montenegro! And on the day after Follieri pleads guilty (http://gawker.com/5048353/raffaello-follieri-pleads-guilty-has-bad-hair-day) to multimillion-dollar fraud! How highly enjoyable. It was already known that McCain spent his 70th birthday, in 2006, aboard the yacht with Follieri and glamorous actress Anne Hathaway (http://gawker.com/tag/anne-hathaway/). But this is the first photo of the meeting, which drives home the unmissable point: John McCain spends his birthday on foreign yachts with criminals and Hollywood types. There's not enough lipstick in the world to cover this pig. Big version of the photo (found by The Nation (http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080929/berman_ames))—and the upshot of the meeting—after the jump:
http://gawker.com/assets/images/gawker/2008/09/mccainRF2.jpeg

In the photograph, taken in Montenegro at the end of August, McCain is shown boarding the yacht ramp towards the smiling Follieri and Hathaway. Just ahead of McCain and shaking hands with Follieri appears to be Rick Davis—McCain's top aide and now co-manager of his campaign, who accompanied him on the trip and advised the government of Montenegro. A few months after McCain's yacht party, Follieri strengthened his ties to McCain's orbit by retaining Rick Davis's well-connected Washington lobbying firm, Davis Manafort, and offering Davis both an investment deal and help in securing the Catholic vote for McCain's presidential bid.

Eric Stoner
09-13-2008, 01:09 PM
There is a long list of people including many Dems who were duped by Mr. Follieri.

Shall we review the rogue's gallery of folks the Clintons were photographed with starting with TONY REZKO ?

sapphiregirl
09-13-2008, 01:14 PM
There is a long list of people including many Dems who were duped by Mr. Follieri.

Shall we review the rogue's gallery of folks the Clintons were photographed with starting with TONY REZKO ?



Get over it with the Clintons....I've never even been a Clinton supporter.


I find all the people running McCain's campaign much more interesting.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gEROVh8zK4

misspthesweetesttaboo
09-13-2008, 02:54 PM
Laura Bush looked pretty. Cindy McCain looked like a banana dominatrix.


lmao...

cinammonkisses
09-13-2008, 04:29 PM
Any chance of a fact or two to support your claim?

If you're talking about candidates' backgrounds, McCain and Biden are career politicians and the Obamas are products of a privileged education. That leaves Palin, who would seem to be closer to being a "middle-American" than the others. How are they products of privileged education? Because they got excellent grades all through school? Neither of them were born with a silver, gold, or platinum spoon in their mouthes.

Zia_Abq
09-13-2008, 09:29 PM
How are they products of privileged education? Because they got excellent grades all through school? Neither of them were born with a silver, gold, or platinum spoon in their mouthes.

It's a waste of time, CK. We are dealing with Bush voters. They don’t appreciate intelligent candidates. They prefer ones they would like to share a beer with instead ;)

sapphiregirl
09-14-2008, 02:06 AM
It's a waste of time, CK. We are dealing with Bush voters. They don’t appreciate intelligent candidates. They prefer ones they would like to share a beer with instead ;)



No Kidding. Here is a great link where Obama is open about all the trash people talk about him. Some of the nastiest smear campaigns and ads have been funded by rich McCain supporters....funny how that works out.



http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/fightthesmearshome/

Melonie
09-14-2008, 04:38 AM
and here's a great link describing the Big H and the Big O ...



(snip)"The Big H and the Big O
Blue states love Obama, but his elitism is tinged with crimson.

By Fred Schwarz

The good thing about going to a mediocre college is that nobody ever calls you a snob because of it. That’s clear from the reactions to Barack Obama’s troubles reaching working-class whites. Here’s a comment from The Weekly Standard: “Obama seems perversely intent on transporting an old adage regarding Harvard over to the Crimson’s law school: ‘You can always tell a Harvard man, but you can’t tell him much.’” And the Seattle Times: “Enter Obama. With his Harvard pedigree, mellifluous voice and high-minded talk of moving beyond the politics of confrontation, he is totally out of place in Appalachia.”

Then there’s this: “[Bill Clinton], with his Southern drawl and voracious appetites, performs ‘blackness’ well; but Obama, with his Harvard degree and midwestern, racially ill-defined accent, does not perform it so well.” From the association of “voracious appetites” with “‘blackness,’” you can tell that no American journalist wrote that; in fact, it was Gary Younge, a black liberal writing for Britain’s Guardian newspaper.

Do you notice a pattern?

Fred Siegel recently wrote: “Perhaps his remarks about bitter Pennsylvanians’ clinging to their guns have finally made visible the real man and his Harvard hauteur.” And Dean Barnett has written: “Anyone who has ever walked by Harvard Yard has heard the kind of condescending comments that Obama offered in San Francisco.” Obama got his bachelor’s degree from Columbia, but you never hear anyone say, “That guy went to Columbia — no wonder he’s such a snob!” (snip)

(snip)"So you can understand why journalists seize upon Harvard to explain why Barack Obama is so out of touch with Earl and Gladys and the kids. Even though he spent his time in Cambridge studying torts and contracts instead of Cicero and Swinburne, and even though his professors were more Duncan Kennedy than Charles W. Kingsfield Jr., the very name of Harvard lends Barack Obama a tweed-jacket image that no amount of community organizing, hip-hop gesturing, and cowboy-hat wearing can shake."(snip)

VegasPrincess
09-14-2008, 05:01 AM
Then there’s this: “[Bill Clinton], with his Southern drawl and voracious appetites, performs ‘blackness’ well; but Obama, with his Harvard degree and midwestern, racially ill-defined accent, does not perform it so well.”

OMG! :tongue-ti Did....did somebody really say that? That's hideous! And Barack is not exactly a "snob" just bc he is well educated. What exactly is being said here? I'm sorry also, how exaclty should an accent be "racially defined." Pretty sure in America we all speak Enlgish, and umm, I dont think the tone of one's voice is different based on creed or color. My mom is from Italy. Should I walk around the city like, "Pizzarea, Pizzarea, lalalalal!" so that I can define my race. I guess I am confusing people with my standard American accent. How dare I!! HOW DARE I!!!!!

Melonie
09-14-2008, 06:48 AM
I believe that the 'black liberal Gary Younge writing for Britain's Guardian newspaper' made his comment about 'Obama not performing blackness well' to illustrate his point about Obama being perceived as an elite. However, as the author of the overall article Fred Schwarz pointed out, such a politically incorrect comment would never have been published in US mainstream media. Of course this doesn't stop some American voters from agreeing with Gary Younge's observation.

Again all of this boils down to some simple US election facts. The opinion so Californians or New Yorkers or residents of some 40 states really don't matter in terms of presidential election results. The opinions that DO matter in terms of presidential election results are the opinions of voters in swing states such as Pennsylvania or Ohio or Nevada. And while there will certainly be voters in Philly or Cleveland or Las Vegas that agree with your assessment, there will also be lots of 'small town' voters who are likely to disagree - i.e. Obama's 'bitter clingers' who don't appreciate Obama's 'Harvard Hauteur' as evidenced by Obama's 'condescending comments' to rich liberal supporters in San Francisco.

bem401
09-14-2008, 06:56 AM
How are they products of privileged education? Because they got excellent grades all through school? Neither of them were born with a silver, gold, or platinum spoon in their mouthes.

Priveleged education? How about Harvard, Princeton, and Columbia? BTW, there has been no reporting that I am aware whether or not their grades were excellent or not. Just saying?

As a graduate of a rival of those schools, I can tell you that the admissions process involves a lot more thaqn just how smart you are. You get rated on a number of issues. You get points for academic ability, athletic ability, artisitic ability, family wealth, geographic location, whether you're a legacy, and what your ethnicity is, because the schools in the Ivy League champion a diverse student body. Without commenting on either Obamas' intelligence or academic achievement, I can tell you that either of their life stories through high school is exactly the kind of shit these places eat up.

As far silver spoons are concerned, are you implying that McCain and Palin were born with silver spoons? Or are you implying Republican politicians in general. If so, might I respond with the names Kennedy, Kerry, Pelosi, Feinstein, Boxer, etc. They are among the most wealthy politicians in the Congress.

cinammonkisses
09-14-2008, 09:17 AM
Priveleged education? How about Harvard, Princeton, and Columbia? BTW, there has been no reporting that I am aware whether or not their grades were excellent or not. Just saying?

As a graduate of a rival of those schools, I can tell you that the admissions process involves a lot more thaqn just how smart you are. You get rated on a number of issues. You get points for academic ability, athletic ability, artisitic ability, family wealth, geographic location, whether you're a legacy, and what your ethnicity is, because the schools in the Ivy League champion a diverse student body. Without commenting on either Obamas' intelligence or academic achievement, I can tell you that either of their life stories through high school is exactly the kind of shit these places eat up.

As far silver spoons are concerned, are you implying that McCain and Palin were born with silver spoons? Or are you implying Republican politicians in general. If so, might I respond with the names Kennedy, Kerry, Pelosi, Feinstein, Boxer, etc. They are among the most wealthy politicians in the Congress.
Ahhh so you're among the many angry white males who assume that any person of color who gets admitted into top ivy league universities only got through the door because they are black. For one second, could you even fathom to believe that they got in (and stayed in) because of their high scholastic ability?

bem401
09-14-2008, 09:35 AM
Ahhh so you're among the many angry white males who assume that any person of color who gets admitted into top ivy league universities only got through the door because they are black. For one second, could you even fathom to believe that they got in (and stayed in) because of their high scholastic ability?

I never said that, you said that. You said they got excellent grades, I said we don't know that. Saying they got in because of their high scholastic ability is just theorizing on your part ( which doesn't mean you're wrong).

I have nothing to be angry about, but I graduated from an Ivy League school so I know how the admissions process works. There are lots of brilliant people there but there are people who bring other things to the table that enhance their chances of admission and I listed some of them for you. I was recruited for two sports so I didn't make it on the basis of my academics alone. I also knew plenty of legacies, rich kids, athletes, and yes, minorities, who weren't there strictly on the basis of their academic prowess either.

Melonie
09-14-2008, 02:25 PM
^^^ this is another Pandora's Box that one should think twice about opening ...

(snip)"Barack Obama's campaign is flatly denying a story told by former Manhattan Borough President Percy Sutton, who cast an ex-Black Panther turned Muslim businessman and lecturer as a key Obama mentor but whose story seems off in at least one key detail.

Sutton's story, told in what NY1 said was a March 25 interview, has been lighting up the conservative blogs for the last week.

Sutton, now in his late 80s and mostly off the public stage, told NY1's Dominic Carter that he was asked to write a letter of recommendation to Harvard Law School on Obama's behalf by a man named Khalid al-Mansour of Texas, "the principle adviser to one of the world's richest men" who was also "raising money for [Obama]."

Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt told Politico that "Obama did not know and does not know Khalid al-Mansour."

LaBolt said Obama doesn't have a relationship with Sutton and that "to our knowledge, no such letter was written." Obama was in Chicago, not New York, when he applied to Harvard.

The person to whom Sutton was apparently referring, al-Mansour, is a former Black Panther and an adviser to Saudi royalty who has produced, as Amanda Carpenter noted, some YouTube clips that would light up cable television if he's actually been close to Obama. He's also been quoted backing the Palestinian side in the Middle East conflict, though he has not been quoted supporting violence there. NewsMax's Kenneth Timmerman reported yesterday that he spoke to al-Mansour, who wouldn't comment on Sutton's story.

"Any statement that I made would only further this activity which is not in the interest of Barack," al-Mansour is quoted as saying."(snip)

from

and from Sutton himself comes a video containing the following

(snip)"In the above video Sutton says: "I was introduced to him by a friend who was raising money for him and the friends name was Dr. Khalid al Mansour from Texas. He is the principle adviser to one of the world's richest men. He told me about Obama. He wrote to me about him and his introduction was 'there is a young man that has applied to Harvard and I know that you have a few friends left there becasue you used to go up there to speak, would you please write a letter in support of him?'...I wrote a letter in support of him to my friends at Harvard saying ot them I thought there was a genius that was going to be available and I sure hoped they would treat him kindly.""(snip)

from

sapphiregirl
09-14-2008, 02:28 PM
^^^ this is another Pandora's Box that one should think twice about opening ...

(snip)"Barack Obama's campaign is flatly denying a story told by former Manhattan Borough President Percy Sutton, who cast an ex-Black Panther turned Muslim businessman and lecturer as a key Obama mentor but whose story seems off in at least one key detail.

Sutton's story, told in what NY1 said was a March 25 interview, has been lighting up the conservative blogs for the last week.

Sutton, now in his late 80s and mostly off the public stage, told NY1's Dominic Carter that he was asked to write a letter of recommendation to Harvard Law School on Obama's behalf by a man named Khalid al-Mansour of Texas, "the principle adviser to one of the world's richest men" who was also "raising money for [Obama]."

Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt told Politico that "Obama did not know and does not know Khalid al-Mansour."

LaBolt said Obama doesn't have a relationship with Sutton and that "to our knowledge, no such letter was written." Obama was in Chicago, not New York, when he applied to Harvard.

The person to whom Sutton was apparently referring, al-Mansour, is a former Black Panther and an adviser to Saudi royalty who has produced, as Amanda Carpenter noted, some YouTube clips that would light up cable television if he's actually been close to Obama. He's also been quoted backing the Palestinian side in the Middle East conflict, though he has not been quoted supporting violence there. NewsMax's Kenneth Timmerman reported yesterday that he spoke to al-Mansour, who wouldn't comment on Sutton's story.

"Any statement that I made would only further this activity which is not in the interest of Barack," al-Mansour is quoted as saying."(snip)

from http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Obama_camp_denies_Sutton_story.html








http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/fightthesmearshome/

Melonie
09-14-2008, 02:34 PM
^^^ as discussed in previous threads, a denial by the Obama camp does not constitute proof that an allegation is untrue. Of course if US media treated Obama equally with Palin, a 'Sutton-gate' investigation might already be underway right along with Palin's 'Trooper-gate' investigation !!!

And while the majority of US mainstream media was able to 'kill' this story, those few American voters who DO learn of it are going to be asking themselves what earthly reason retired Manhattan icon of black liberalism Percy Sutton would have to lie on camera about using his Harvard connections to aid Obama's admissions application - and much more importantly why Percy Sutton would have reason to lie about Obama receiving financial support from former Black Panther now advisor to a Saudi Prince Dr. Khalid Al Monsour.

But under current media conditions, it would appear that Obama's possible links to muslim money man Khalid Al Monsour will remain in limbo right along with Obama's possible links to muslim money man Hamdi Auchi and a host of others. Nevertheless, there are some out there, among them Israelis and Jewish American voters, who are VERY disturbed about the apparent existance of a pattern linking major muslim money to Obama.

~

sapphiregirl
09-17-2008, 03:16 PM
Awwwwwww.....Cindy McCain can't handle a show like the View. Poor thing.




"In spite of what you see ... in the newspapers, and on shows like 'The View' -- I don't know if any of you saw 'The View' [on Sept. 12,] they picked our bones clean -- in spite of what you see, that's not what the American people are saying and what they are believing," Mrs. McCain said, ABC News (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/cindy-mccain-on.html) reports.
During the show, Joy Behar pointed out that two of McCain's television ads were false, Barbara Walters asked how many houses the two owned, and Whoopi Goldberg wondered if she should worry about becoming a slave again...Cindy McCain

Zia_Abq
09-17-2008, 06:34 PM
Awwwwwww.....Cindy McCain can't handle a show like the View. Poor thing.


Guess the truth really hurt ;)