View Full Version : My club welcomed me quitting after I was assaulted and they did nothing
hazel_eyes
09-12-2008, 10:39 PM
All of what I'm going to say has been said, but damn it, I feel so strongly about this that I'm going to post anyway.
No man should expect anything from strippers except a dance. I don't care where he is from or what he is used to. and the part about taking responibility? YEAH!! HE should've taken responsibility for his actions, and the club should've taken responsibility for one of their own. I find it appalling that not ONE person stood up for VS! That is insane! I have never EVER encountered such an atrocity!
and saying that it's all blue collar places that are like that? I guess I'm lucky that mine isn't. VIP, LD's, stage, floor, DR, everywhere but the bathrooms is monitered on camera by the owner, bouncers, and doorman. If anything even begins to go down, they check on it. Even if you go to a bouncer with a complaint about something that was said or something that was done, they will ask if we want the person removed. If you say yes, they will remove them.
$500 does not warrant any kind of inappropriate behavior. $1,000,000 doesn't. I have never told any guy what to expect in VIP unless he asked because I always assumed he knew it's just dancing. This makes me glad our club requires us to get the money upfront in case he does decide to be a jackass.
My heart goes out to VS and all of the other girls who have been screwed over by there clubs and stupid custies. It's not right, though it happens. Kudos for having the courage to stand up for yourself!
And to the Negative Nancy's on this thread- Ignorance is not attractive and should not be tolerated. Grow up, grow a heart, and recognize when someone needs support, not your uneducated and misguided comments. You won't get by on your looks forever.
Starfire
09-13-2008, 12:02 AM
Guys watch out for other guys no matter what. I think a lot of the managers and bouncers secretly hate us and take pleasure in all this.
I agree, I've always felt like a lot of the male staff members at clubs I've worked at resent us for the "easy" money we make.
erotictonic
09-13-2008, 01:42 AM
Calling you stupid was the least of the things I called you after reading your response. Be glad you didn't say something that stupid in person. You would have heard a helluva lot worse.
I'm so scared of people who have no personal power lol. *shakes in shoes* ;D I would just call the police to take care of your ranting and raving. I'm not a dancer, so therefore, they will side with my 9-to-5 and common reasoning ability, not a raving, out-of-control, dancer lol. The upperscale area I live in would send you off to the Central Valley where you could be amongst your peers. The type of trash talk you are exhibiting is not tolerated around here. We offer each other the right to disagree without calling each other names and insulting one another. We have discussions, we don't rant and rave on endlessly without any real reason or thought behind it or threaten one another.
I have had people pm me to agree, because they don't feel like dealing with being ganged up on on here and hearing rants and raves from a lot of you. I don't care. But it seems to be a general problem with the site if people cannot voice their opinions without dealing with that much insulting and then being ganged up on by a lot of angry people who aren't even comprehending the message, but just spewing and raving on about meanings that were never even clarified, or meant to be in the first place. My words were misunderstood by 9/10 of you. You comprehended them to be something they are not....and responded to them in ways that appear you did not comprehend my original meaning at all. Do you think instead of jumping the gun and assuming I was saying one thing when I was not, that you could've clarified that with me? Because I don't believe most of what you guys are pinning on me. You took my words and twisted them into something they are not.
99.9% of people are not going to take most of you seriously, and it's because most of your arguments have no real validity or reasoning behind them. Some do, and I believe I acknowledged that. So be it. And that is not an insult, it is the truth. The truth sometimes can seem insulting when you are fighting against it, and when there are unresolved issues within.
I want to clarify that I am Not coming from a place of hate, but a place where I stood in your shoes, and thought similar to a lot of you. And my intent was never to argue, although I see that my approach was not effective. Maybe I can learn how to communicate my messages to angry dancers in a way that won't result in them becoming angrier. Then again, it seems that, in general, the rules here could be a bit stiffer against disagreements leading to insults and poor behaviors. People have a right to disagree on issues and state their opinions without being pummeled by an angry mob.
lildreamer316
09-13-2008, 02:18 AM
You can also be a stripper and never get bitten. I have never gotten bitten...so my comparison is spot on. It is NOT part of the job. Yes working as a stripper might mean a higher chance of getting bitten, just like being a woman puts you in a higher risk of getting sexually assaulted, and perhaps not all women are raped, but I am sure ALL women have been assaulted at least once in their lives, and I am not even talking about strippers, I am talking about the everyday woman. Just because this is true doesnt mean that we should just "accept it" as part of life
To back this up, I have been stripping since 1994 and never been bitten (that I can remember, admittedly, but all I ever do at work is drink).
lildreamer316
09-13-2008, 02:29 AM
Guys go in with expectations...
It's the dancer's responsibility to know beforehand what the guy expects before going in.
NO. IT IS THE DANCER'S RESPONISIBLITY TO REMIND THE CUSTOMER OF THE RULES OF THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE SITUATION WARRANTS. IT IS THE MANAGER'S, OWNER'S, AND FLOORMEN/BOUNCER'S RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE AN ATMOSPHERE WHERE THIS IS NOT ENCOURAGED OR ACCEPTED AND IS PROPERLY PUNSIHED WHEN IT HAPPENS. THE DANCER DOES NOT 1) RUN THE CLUB AND 2) MAKE THE LAWS.
I am not the staunchest defender of 'oh poor me' strippers who do not have the sense to pay attention and figure out if someone is an asshole; but to lay the complete blame for this on her door is beyond the pale, to put it lightly, and smacks of mysoginistic bullshit and avoidance of the real issues. " The Buck Stops Here' was a sign on a president's desk, not a stripper's.
I don't personally know too many women who would take this attitude. Violence is violence, and not appreciating that the person in front of you is a human being is barbaric. She's not asking to be treated with kid gloves, just not to be bitten. I would think any reasonable man would recognize this. The fact that maybe he did and bit anyway says far more about him than about her. The fact that you would even begin to try to defend it is ludicrous.
What is she supposed to be? A mind reader? Play 20 questions of what I can do in the VIP before going in? Wow, great way to make a fantasy come true!! I'll be sure to put in for an Oscar when I can successfully answer every question one could possibly come up with for variations of what one can and cannot do in a VIP room, all while maintaining the illusion that I desparately want to have a good time with the customer and he is going to enjoy every minuite of his VIP dance (sorry for the run-on).
erotictonic
09-13-2008, 03:11 AM
NO. IT IS THE DANCER'S RESPONISIBLITY TO REMIND THE CUSTOMER OF THE RULES OF THE ESTABLISHMENT. IT IS THE MANAGER'S, OWNER'S, AND FLOORMEN/BOUNCER'S RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE AN ATMOSPHERE WHERE THIS IS NOT ENCOURAGED OR ACCEPTED AND IS PROPERLY PUNSIHED WHEN IT HAPPENS. THE DANCER DOES NOT 1) RUN THE CLUB AND 2) MAKE THE LAWS.
I am not the staunchest defender of 'oh poor me' strippers who do not have the sense to pay attention and figure out if someone is an asshole; but to lay the complete blame for this on her door is beyond the pale, to put it lightly, and smacks of mysoginistic bullshit and avoidance of the real issues. " The Buck Stops Here' was a sign on a president's desk, not a stripper's.
I don't personally know too many women who would take this attitude. Violence is violence, and not appreciating that the person in front of you is a human being is barbaric. She's not asking to be treated with kid gloves, just not to be bitten. I would think any reasonable man would recognize this. The fact that maybe he did and bit anyway says far more about him than about her.
If you actually go back and read what I wrote, you will see that I never said it was the dancer's full responsibility... I said that for me, it was a negotiation based on both party's input. And that's what I think. I Personally want to take responsibility for doing that. If you don't want to do that or see it that way, that is your choice, but this has been a problem-solver for me, personally. The more responsibility I take for what happens to me and the more responsibility I take for my own actions, the less bad that happens to me. There is a series of actions and thoughts leading to his action. Studying those to work one's way around a problem and solve it is important for me, personally. It doesn't have to be important for you. You can see the world however way you wish, and deal with things the way you think is best for you. It's a personal choice on my part to choose to work things out for my own peace of mind and safety. And for me, if I got bitten by a guy who spent $500, I would figure he knew he could get away with it (which he did), so he did it, or, my original idea, that the other girls were doing it, so he felt he got robbed and just stole the bite. I never said he was right in doing so, if you actually go back and read. Therefore, I would change what i was doing to adapt to the situation. That 1) I probably wouldn't go into VIP anymore, or 2) find another club, that being because I have to accept the fact that the club doesn't care. Honestly, I have seen few who actually do care a whole lot. They pretty much see dancers as girl #5,009 with another 5,009 waiting to be hired.
I believe it was brought up that in a lot of gown clubs, if a guy spends a lot of money, they can get away with doing things like this. I suppose knowing and accepting that is the way that particular club is is important upon going into the club. They don't think it's their responsibility to take action on his "assault", and all the rants and raves and disagreements in the world won't change that. Therefore, if I am going to dance there, I am going to ensure that that doesn't happen to me, however I need to. It's my responsibility to take care of myself against their negligence. And that may mean never going into VIP, because I don't want to be bitten and then told it's ok, for any amount of money, while the other girls do it willingly. But I have to work with their rules, being angered by them will do nothing. And believing it should be one way when it is not, is just my opinion and not anything that will change their minds.
I take a problem-solving approach. If things happen to me, I adapt in order to take care of myself in a harsh environment. Getting angry and remaining static will result in the same things happening over and over again. And my ideas are based on what works for me, not what IS for everyone. The more responsibility I take and the more I accept environments for what they are, the better I can learn to navigate within them in order to be successful.
fashionista
09-13-2008, 03:32 AM
Wow.. American strip clubs sound nasty! I always used to think of that movie "Go" where one of the main characters nearly got shot for touching a dancer, obviously it is not the reality in the US!
It was definetly a good idea to quit, the biting was unwarranted and the way everyone was speaking to you was horrible :(
lildreamer316
09-13-2008, 03:35 AM
I would think most of this could have been avoided if you had phrased this in a different way.
Of course it is, at the end, up to me what I will put up with, and up to me to admit that maybe I did not handle a situation as well as possible, so as to change the outcome next time. But I happen to like people, and I like my job. I am not going to go through life assuming every man is an asshole and that they are all going to try their worst in VIP. Many people would not agree with me,but I find it makes my life and work a lot more pleasant when I use the half-full approach. I have survived 13-14 years of active continuous dancing ( and a few years of intermittant work) without serious mishap, so I say yes, my way definately works for me.
I always watch carefully what is going on in the club I'm working in, and listen to what other girls say and what they do. I take stock of the kind of customers that are there, and I listen to my instinct. Sometimes you have to take a chance and trust that you can handle a customer who is borderline, and sometimes you lose out on that propositon. But it is still the owner's, bouncer's and manager's absoulute responsibility to WATCH MY BACK AND THEIR OWN. They are supposed to be the 'bad cop' to my 'good cop' so that I can do my job without having to worry about crap like this. As a dancer, I work under the slight assumption that most managers don't want to get thier club fined because of behavior like this. Therefore I would be somewhat reasonable in assuming that the responsibility for making clear what was and wasn't allowed had already been established in many customer's minds. Do they really think that it is legal to bite someone in a strip club?
erotictonic
09-13-2008, 03:53 AM
ET. You are mistaken. If he thought it was on offer because it was a standard fixture of a dance he would not have waited until time up to do it. It suggests quite the opposite of your contention - that he thought something bad might happen if he did that and didn't want to "waste" the money his friend spent in VIP. If he was all "hey, I'm allowed to bite the girls back here, that's what VIP is for. She won't mind in the slightest and I'm sure it will be gratifying for all parties" he would not have likely waited until it was definitely concluded that the VIP was officially and absolutely over.
Notice I said "probably"? My ideas were based on speculation, as yours are. No one knows exactly what he was thinking, we can only speculate and draw ideas based on VS'es point-of-view. And mine were based on the fact that the other girls expressed that they Would let him bite for $500... and later VS expressed that the club was becoming extras-ridden herself. It's possible that he just wanted to bite and felt like it, it's possible for a lot of things to have happened. And I covered two of those... 1) that he might've bitten because the other girls allowed it, and he "stole" it, or 2) he knew he could get away with it, so he did it.
He would have sat down and said "Alright. Biting time. Come on over here." She said he was handsy, but manageable. So if she were managing his handsiness some information was likely exchanged that he was not allowed to touch certain places; whether through the physical removal of his hands or the a verbal admonition. It seems unlikely that a reasonable person would conclude "Okay, no touching. But I'm sure biting is fine." So even if his expectations were the end all be all of her physical rights, I don't think there is much to support that he legitimately expected such behaviour to be acceptable.
What about what the girls and the housemom said in the dressing room? Nor do I think or ever said he thought it was acceptable, I said he might've "stole" the bite, actually saying that he thought it was unacceptable for this particular girl.
Even if he did think it was okay, you certainly don't have information adequate to conclude that he was right, or would usually be right.
I didn't conclude it, I expressed a "could be" scenario. And your scenario is no more "right" than mine... one can only speculate based on information which may be close to the truth or not.
Since, in our society we have a pretty strong principle that generally you need permission before touching someone and we don't work it on a principle that you can assume everyone is okay with being bitten until after they tell you not to, you need some pretty compelling information or counter principle to reverse that.
We are not speaking of society. We are speaking of the environment in a sc.
"Well, guys have expectations" is not compelling information. Girls here are going to have a strong reaction to anyone who suggests that their physical integrity is waived because they are strippers.
I never suggested that. I don't see what "guys have expectations" has to do with this particular idea. It appears that you are concluding something that wasn't meant to be concluded from that sentence lol.
It is not only wrong (as in inaccurate) is inherently disrespectful and dehumanizing. Like there is no way to say "Unlike other human beings, your body is free for all unless you actively reject touching" without making strippers less than other human beings. It is not surprising, then, that people here will see "the customer has a right to touch you unless you say no" as a pretty violent attack.
Whether it is a violent attack or not, or regardless of how I see it, some customers will believe that. Therefore, it is MY responsibility to safeguard myself, because the managers aren't always going to do it for me. I have to work with the environment, I can't pretend it doesn't exist, whether I agree with it's existence or not.
We know what we do for a living. And we know that when we agree to a dance we are agreeing to some level of sexual contact. Note - that is some fixed level, not every and any possible level. Because I agree to let a guy touch my butt does not mean I have agreed to let him lick my nipples. And a strip club, unlike a date, in an environment where negotiation of these things is up front and very, very easy. The idea that the responsibility is mine to ensure that that he follows basic laws of courtesy and, well, Law in our country I think needs some support.
I never proposed that idea. But it really doesn't matter whether I think it's my responsibility or not... sometimes it will be in certain environments, regardless of whether i think it is or not. It's best to think it is in an sc. That covers it all.
erotictonic
09-13-2008, 04:08 AM
I would think most of this could have been avoided if you had phrased this in a different way.
Well, I tend to agree with you.
Of course it is, at the end, up to me what I will put up with, and up to me to admit that maybe I did not handle a situation as well as possible, so as to change the outcome next time. But I happen to like people, and I like my job. I am not going to go through life assuming every man is an asshole and that they are all going to try their worst in VIP. Many people would not agree with me,but I find it makes my life and work a lot more pleasant when I use the half-full approach. I have survived 13-14 years of active continuous dancing ( and a few years of intermittant work) without serious mishap, so I say yes, my way definately works for me.
I always watch carefully what is going on in the club I'm working in, and listen to what other girls say and what they do. I take stock of the kind of customers that are there, and I listen to my instinct. Sometimes you have to take a chance and trust that you can handle a customer who is borderline, and sometimes you lose out on that propositon. But it is still the owner's, bouncer's and manager's absoulute responsibility to WATCH MY BACK AND THEIR OWN. They are supposed to be the 'bad cop' to my 'good cop' so that I can do my job without having to worry about crap like this. As a dancer, I work under the slight assumption that most managers don't want to get thier club fined because of behavior like this. Therefore I would be somewhat reasonable in assuming that the responsibility for making clear what was and wasn't allowed had already been established in many customer's minds. Do they really think that it is legal to bite someone in a strip club?
Heh, some strip clubs I know of, it is acceptable to do a whole hella lot more than that! (sex comes to mind)... Even though it's not legal, it's also not enforced. And whether it's legal or not, in ALL of the ones I have been to, illegal stuff took place anyway. Legalities only go so far in that environment... Sure, in an ideal scenario, the managers and bouncers would watch your back and take care of things always. In reality, that doesn't happen even nearly always. I accept that's the case.
Thanks for sharing...
LadyM
09-13-2008, 04:27 AM
^ holy shit!
Guys watch out for other guys no matter what. I think a lot of the managers and bouncers secretly hate us and take pleasure in all this.
QFT!!
LadyM
09-13-2008, 04:38 AM
I'm so scared of people who have no personal power lol. *shakes in shoes* ;D I would just call the police to take care of your ranting and raving.
Then you would have looked like an even bigger jackass. I said I'd call you worse, not beat your ass. Last I checked Palin wasn't president and the 1st Amendment was still in effect. Joke would have been on you.
I'm not a dancer This explains everything. GTFO our boards.
so therefore, they will side with my 9-to-5 and common reasoning ability, not a raving, out-of-control, dancer lol. The upperscale area I live in would send you off to the Central Valley where you could be amongst your peers. The type of trash talk you are exhibiting is not tolerated around here. We offer each other the right to disagree without calling each other names and insulting one another. We have discussions, we don't rant and rave on endlessly without any real reason or thought behind it or threaten one another.Actually, it wouldn't. You know nothing of who I am or where I am from. Nor do you know my education or social background. What you do know is that I do NOT tolerate one woman (assuming you don't have XY chromosomes) insinuating it is another woman's fault she was assaulted!
If some random man leaned over and bit you, your supposed high class self would be screaming and crying rape. It's only through making it very very VERY clear to men that NO woman finds this acceptable do we have a chance in hell of getting men to start seeing this type of behaviour as 'wrong'.
erotictonic
09-13-2008, 04:55 AM
Then you would have looked like an even bigger jackass. I said I'd call you worse, not beat your ass. Last I checked Palin wasn't president and the 1st Amendment was still in effect. Joke would have been on you.
This explains everything. GTFO our boards.
Actually, it wouldn't. You know nothing of who I am or where I am from. Nor do you know my education or social background. What you do know is that I do NOT tolerate one woman (assuming you don't have XY chromosomes) insinuating it is another woman's fault she was assaulted!
If some random man leaned over and bit you, your supposed high class self would be screaming and crying rape. It's only through making it very very VERY clear to men that NO woman finds this acceptable do we have a chance in hell of getting men to start seeing this type of behaviour as 'wrong'.
I'll agree to disagree.... so be it. And no, at one time, I wouldn't have been crying rape, I would've allowed it willingly (light biting). Now, I wouldn't even go in VIP.
I don't think I'm high-class, I just think you probably lack the manners needed to exist here. That doesn't make me high-class, just more mannerly than you. I wouldn't treat anyone the way you treated me for any reason, I may be blunt and truthful but I am not usually blatantly insulting, in fact, never like that. No one is here... they Would honestly be taken care of after one of those comments in public, or for loudly doing that behind closed doors in private. No ifs, ands, or buts. Simply saying those things is grounds for prosecution here (and I've seen it happen), whereas, when I was back in the South, the police wouldn't even bother coming to see what was up....
knp001
09-13-2008, 05:24 AM
I'm so sorry, hun!!:hug: that is so wrong on so many levels!!
I hope you have a GREAT time at your new club- fuck all those bitches at your old one!! they were prolly just jealous cos you are such a hustler!!;D
Jenny
09-13-2008, 07:15 AM
Notice I said "probably"? My ideas were based on speculation, as yours are.
Yes, but notice that my speculations are backed up by the facts as given and not merely an obviously negative opinion of dancers and the idea that all dancers should be so self hating that they probably deserve any abuse that they get. There is a difference between reasonably supported specualation and not.
And mine were based on the fact that the other girls expressed that they Would let him bite for $500... and later VS expressed that the club was becoming extras-ridden herself. For that you would have to assume that a) he had been there a lot before b) that the girls who said that represented the majority or at least a strong representation of the girls in the club. We were not given in the information in a) so you are speculating to support your speculation and seeing as we were given a total of three comments in b) it just seems unlikely. Your speculations aren't good.
Nor do I think or ever said he thought it was acceptable, I said he might've "stole" the bite, actually saying that he thought it was unacceptable for this particular girl.I'm not sure how well this fits into your general argument seeing as how you are still placing responsibility for it on her, despite the fact that he seemed to know already that he wasn't meant to do it. So even if he knows in advance in that he is not meant to do something, it is still her responsibility if he assaults her because he is angry. Is there anything you think she can do besides quit her job, get an upscale address (seeing as you think that is really important) outside of acquiesce? Because you are saying it is her responsibility to establish boundaries, not his, but even if boundaries are established it is still her responsibility because he might have been angry about them and that she should not be upset (although him being upset enough to bite her is apparently in the realm of acceptability? Maybe because you are assuming that he has a 9-5 and and upscale, oh excuse me "upperscale" address?)
I didn't conclude it, I expressed a "could be" scenario. And your scenario is no more "right" than mine... one can only speculate based on information which may be close to the truth or not.First, I daresay my scenario is far more supported than yours. Second. You are seriously backtracking. Backtracking from your initial position is a good thing, because it was a bad position, but you certainly did conclude that it was probably her responsibility because "It's the dancer's responsibility to know beforehand what the guy expects before going in".
We are not speaking of society. We are speaking of the environment in a sc.A strip club is part of society, until you come up with a pretty compelling reason to isolate it from the normal laws of assault.
I never suggested that. I don't see what "guys have expectations" has to do with this particular idea. It appears that you are concluding something that wasn't meant to be concluded from that sentence lol.Because you didn't say "guys have expectations" in a vacuum. You said "guys have expectations (probably)" and therefore it is your responsibility (probably) if you are assaulted (although you put "assault" in quotation marks to undermine the seriousness of the situation)." So if you meant for something else to be concluded then perhaps you should have been more clear.
Whether it is a violent attack or not, or regardless of how I see it, some customers will believe that. Therefore, it is MY responsibility to safeguard myself, because the managers aren't always going to do it for me. I have to work with the environment, I can't pretend it doesn't exist, whether I agree with it's existence or not.Yes, but you didn't merely offer advice on how to avoid it next time, did you? You very comfortably started doling out responsibility and blame based on relatively little except that you don't like what we do. Like we all read your response to Lady M; this is the real point - that he wasn't a dancer and she was and therefore you extend all possible benefit of the doubt to him, regardless of how possibly reasonable or unreasonable, and place all the responsibility on her - no matter how ridiculously out of tune with the rest of society. And while you should have the ability to safeguard yourself and take any steps you want, there are several giant leaps between that and declaring that one person "has responsibility" for the acts of someone else because that someone else "had expectations".
I never proposed that idea. But it really doesn't matter whether I think it's my responsibility or not... sometimes it will be in certain environments, regardless of whether i think it is or not. It's best to think it is in an sc. That covers it all.You certainly did. What else could "well, it is your job to tell him what he can't do and not his to find out" mean? And what do you mean "certain environments"? Some people think that in every environment. Does that mean that you hold responsibility for everything anyone does to you ever - I mean you are aware that some people everywhere think certain things about women.
Finally - it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that "lots of people PM to agree with you." This board is plagued by people who hate dancers. And assuming that 99.9% of people won't take these arguments seriously is a mistake. A lot of people - even those with "upperscale addresses" take arguments about elitist definitions of crime and shifting responsibility based on social perception and perceived social value very seriously.
ViolaStrings
09-13-2008, 10:15 AM
I'm so scared of people who have no personal power lol. *shakes in shoes* ;D I would just call the police to take care of your ranting and raving. I'm not a dancer, so therefore...
Then what the fuck are you doing here? GTFO.
Elusive21
09-13-2008, 10:22 AM
Seriously, erotictonic, what ARE you doing here? You're not a dancer, so why don't you leave. Any input that you have on this situation will be disregarded because you have no idea where we're coming fron since you are not a stripper.
ViolaStrings
09-13-2008, 10:29 AM
^ I'm pretty sure it's a guy.
LuckyOne
09-13-2008, 10:42 AM
Seriously, erotictonic, what ARE you doing here? You're not a dancer, so why don't you leave. Any input that you have on this situation will be disregarded because you have no idea where we're coming fron since you are not a stripper.
Members who aren't industry related are not supposed to be posting in Stripping General.
Come to think of it, security has been better in dive places I've worked too. Upscale clubs seem to cater more towards the customers and dive bars cater more to the dancers.
Word.
erotictonic
09-13-2008, 11:02 AM
I'm a retired dancer....
ViolaStrings
09-13-2008, 11:04 AM
^ you're an active jerk
dangerousdiva
09-13-2008, 11:11 AM
What a train wreck.
My mind is boggled that someone is actually trying to argue that having your nipple bit is the dancers fault and something we should expect because of the environment.
I've worked in some pretty high contact clubs and biting has never been on the menu or a customer expectation.
Since you're retired ET, it's obvious that you have become completely out of touch with the industry, so your POV is no longer relevant.
erotictonic
09-13-2008, 11:26 AM
What a train wreck.
My mind is boggled that someone is actually trying to argue that having your nipple bit is the dancers fault and something we should expect because of the environment.
I've worked in some pretty high contact clubs and biting has never been on the menu or a customer expectation.
Since you're retired ET, it's obvious that you have become completely out of touch with the industry, so your POV is no longer relevant.
The funny part about it is that I don't think it was her fault.... but only a few of you can understand that.... I think she probably played a part in it... but I don't see it as she's to blame. No one ever clarified whether I did or not.... they just assumed it.
Well, I would expect it. I guarantee you if I went back to an sc, I would expect all sorts of stuff to happen to me I didn't like.... that's the way it is. Sc's aren't churches lol. And the ones around here include sex on the menu.... I'm close to sf. Maybe you are the one who is out-of-touch....
You guys wanna act as if None of you Ever do extras, and I think that is just simply unrealistic. Strip clubs are places where sexual interaction takes place... if I go to a restaurant, I can expect to eat there. Honestly, what the heck is so wrong with doing extras, anyway? If someone chooses to, they choose it. I don't see the big deal, perhaps not seeing the big deal with her getting bitten as much, although I agree it wasn't right for her, because it was against her will....that simply doesn't usually happen to girls who are open-minded about things, whether they will do it or not, it usually happens to prisses or premadonnas who have something to take away, like someone who would have an outcry over it....none of the sf dancers I know will come here, they hate it because you guys are so blatantly judging against extras, yet you guys don't want to be judged by others yourself.... it's hypocritical.
BB1984
09-13-2008, 11:33 AM
I'm so sorry about what happened VS {{HUGS}}, there is no way that anyone in their right state of mind could even insinuate that this was your fault. You are definitely making the right decision by switching clubs.
scarymary77
09-13-2008, 11:34 AM
et, i have read your posts on here for awhile and i am well...surprised...this just doesnt sound like something you would write on here...
however, i think what et is doing is trying to get inside the customer's head and explain his reasoning. i'm not necessarily agreeing with what she has written. my reasoning for his behavior: insecurity around women and inexperience with women. any 'child' who would bite a woman's nipple really doesnt know much about making a lady happy in the sack. so, ms. vs, unfortunately you were his guinea pig. was it wrong? of course! he did it because he felt he has absolutely no control of his miserable life so he acts out like a child because he knows no other way to feel any type of control. pathetic. i hope he gets mrsa. hell, i wish my friend with it would be able to sit with him- he would never bite again after that!
i'm sorry this happened and i am disgusted that no one took your side. good luck in your new club and keep us updated! hugs!!!
Jenny
09-13-2008, 11:45 AM
Sc's aren't churches lol.
Do you think church is the only place women shouldn't expect to be assaulted, dehumanized and abused? Because I have this weird idea that even when I'm not in church I have a legitimate expectation to not be touched without permission.
You guys wanna act as if None of you Ever do extras, and I think that is just simply unrealistic. Strip clubs are places where sexual interaction takes place... if I go to a restaurant, I can expect to eat there. Honestly, what the heck is so wrong with doing extras, anyway?
Do you see no difference between consenting to an act and not consenting? This is not about a girl performing extras. This is about assault. The problem you're meeting is that you think that the consent or lack of consent from a dancer means something different than from a non-dancer. This is not about extras, whether the OP or anyone else here does them.
although I agree it wasn't right for her, because it was against her will....that simply doesn't usually happen to girls who are open-minded about things,
I don't understand what open minded means. Like open minded about being touched without permission? Open minded means that a woman has been so stripped of her humanity that she no longer considers her body to be exclusively hers and she needs to take responsibility for the acts of all men in her vicinity? Open minded means that the feelings and gratification of the men around me take some kind of precedence over my ownership of my person? Open minded means that some woman who has recently decided to become more "sexually pure" than me gets to determine what I should agree to and for how much? I am proud to say I am closed minded about that. No matter what I agree to for what amount of money I will never, ever, ever even remotely consider the possibility that my agreement isn't necessary, or is unimportant because of a guy's irritation or "expectations." I am a dancer, yes - that does not make me some kind of house pet to be picked up and fondled by anyone at their pleasure.
none of the sf dancers I know will come here, they hate it because you guys are so blatantly judging against extras, yet you guys don't want to be judged by others yourself.... it's hypocritical.
You are conflating one discussion with another it has nothing to do with. Whether or not the dancers here should or do judge extras is not the point. This completely encases "extras" dancers and is the opposite of the dancer elitism you are claiming exists. It bears no difference between "premadonnas" [sic] and crack whores. Both of those and everyone in between needs to consent and agree to every sexual act. You are the one levering elitism into this discussion.
ViolaStrings
09-13-2008, 11:52 AM
I think she probably played a part in it... but I don't see it as she's to blame.
I played a part in it? I somehow gave him the idea that this would be acceptable? I explain at the beginning of every VIP room to keep your hands off my tits, ass, and pussy. I guess I should have been more specific and said "Keep your teeth off me" ::) I was actively fending off this guy's hands the whole VIP room. Because he couldn't touch the good bits, he did annoying things like mess up my hair in a half-affectionate, half-controlling way. He bit me out of spite at the end of the time. He KNEW he shouldn't have done it, which is why he denied he even did it at all. As for this idea that the other girls from the club let him do it when he goes to VIP with them... HE WAS FROM SCOTLAND AND HAD NEVER STEP FOOT IN MY CLUB IN HIS LIFE. And as for the idea that he wasn't getting his money's worth - HE DIDN'T PAY FOR ANYTHING IN THE ROOM. HIS BOSS DID.
Seriously, you are just digging yourself in a deeper hole with your compassionless comments and erroneous assumptions.
velvet
09-13-2008, 11:53 AM
well unfortunately one of our resident nuts who i thought was gone is back. so i have to close.there is no way to clean this mess.
ViolaStrings
09-13-2008, 11:53 AM
et, i have read your posts on here for awhile and i am well...surprised...this just doesnt sound like something you would write on here...
however, i think what et is doing is trying to get inside the customer's head and explain his reasoning. i'm not necessarily agreeing with what she has written. my reasoning for his behavior: insecurity around women and inexperience with women. any 'child' who would bite a woman's nipple really doesnt know much about making a lady happy in the sack. so, ms. vs, unfortunately you were his guinea pig. was it wrong? of course! he did it because he felt he has absolutely no control of his miserable life so he acts out like a child because he knows no other way to feel any type of control. pathetic. i hope he gets mrsa. hell, i wish my friend with it would be able to sit with him- he would never bite again after that!
i'm sorry this happened and i am disgusted that no one took your side. good luck in your new club and keep us updated! hugs!!!
He did it to HURT me, not because he was inexperienced with women. He was in his 40s and married.